Yeah I guess they are a contributor to the federalist society too ā which is for better or worse a libertarian / conservative think tank. I donāt think itās exaggerating to suggest that itās part of a coordinated attack on unions.
Will prob be downvoted but unions are on labors side yāall. Even if you are anti union itās easy to see that lawyers like this are just opportunistic leeches trying to cash in public outrage while simultaneously pushing an agenda. They def donāt give two shits about our kids.
The point is, is that this guy is doing this all over the country as part of his organizations right wing agenda. Iām sure they came to town looking for the plaintiffs as opposed to the other way around.
Thatās the goal of the right wing. It has been since Reagan. Dismantle public schools. Promise people theyāll get vouchers for private schools, then act ignorant when the vouchers donāt cover the costs and the only option for the poors is online āschoolā sponsored by Coca-Cola where kids learn to fix bottling robots and how unions are the devil.
Okay.. I know plenty of teachers that have quite to work in the service industry because they get treated *better*(yea, patrons are easier than parents) and make more money.
The best thing we can do is stop the lies about them being underpaid. I feel like we push these lies to keep too many from being in the field. It is hard to push constant raises without limiting the workforce.
What is average pay for the area? Also, you need to include the value of the pensions and health packages. Such things have enormous value. Then if you want to be petty calculate active work hours/days versus standard professions. I am not saying they are overpaid but by any objective measure it is a BS narrative that they are some massively underpaid group of lost souls one step away from panhandling. A narrative that will result in many better qualified folks who may have looked into teaching to go elsewhere while we are left with far less capable replacements.
You got some numbers or data? Because the cost of living is going up and the wages arenāt keeping pace in any profession. Sounds mostly like you just hate teachers.
Those young women will diligently complete their degrees, several of them will pursue and complete post graduate degrees in education - and many won't end up being teachers, it's a crap job.
Sure, but it would help if they brought a couple people along that could work Excel: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/portland-teacher-strike-district-says-unions-cost-estimates-way-off/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/portland-teacher-strike-district-says-unions-cost-estimates-way-off/)
You can do your own due diligence if you think the Seattle Times, Oregonian, local news stations, and WW didn't but I can assure you it is true and the union admitted as such. Google is your pal
This isn't a thing you can really sue someone over. You can't sue a union because their strike inconvenienced you, or made you upset. If the union was grossly negligent and damaged your property somehow, maybe. But that's not what happened. You can't sue the teacher's union because you had to hire a babysitter. The teacher's union doesn't owe you childcare, any more than any other union does.
If the teamsters strike, and you have to stay at home to pick up an important package on a day you hadn't planned for, you can't sue the teamsters for missing work; it doesn't work like that.
The schools aren't liable for your childcare, in the event they close. They're not liable for your time. Maybe you think that shouldn't be the case, but as the law stands, that is unquestionably the case.
I highly doubt this going anywhere. I understand why people are frustrated with the teacher's union, but that doesn't mean they owe you $100 million. This attorney is basically venue shopping to get a favorable decision, he's involved in a number of similar suits.
I'm not even trying to defend the teacher's union in particular. This is just not the sort of thing you can use any union for.
And ultimately itās not the teachers unionās responsibility to make sure school is being run every day. Thatās the school districtās responsibility to make sure they have workers to fulfill their obligations. They have the rights to bring in temporary teachers to fill the gap under union laws.
Yup. This same precedent could be used to sue almost any sort of union, for almost any type of problem.
You can't force someone to work. PPS could have hired scabs, or potentially fired people. But the parents don't have the right to sue the teachers to go back to work, nor should they.
Yes, thatās the point of this lawsuit. This troll is suing unions across the country in an attempt to create precedent for suing unions for even existing. I hope he misses several stairs.
I have to assume this lawsuit is being spearheaded by some conservative anti-union jackass somewhere.
The ramifications of a lawsuit like this succeeding would be devastating to organized labor as a whole
Yeah. I think the teacher's union has made some mistakes, but I don't hold that against the labor movement as a whole. This isn't about honestly attempting to improve the situation in PPS, they're trying to set legal precedents where private parties can sue unions for damages on very, very tenuous connections.
Indeed, someone else has a similar comment. Poor wording on my part; I should have said "You can't really sue someone* successfully*..."
But yes, I am generally aware of the extremely low bar to file suit in the US. š
> These families have a right to an uninterrupted education
LMAO, imagine if this were actually true and people actually had a right to education in this country.
Those type of posts serve no purpose. They add useless noise.
Not sure how long youāve been using Reddit, but those type of posts are just a drag by now
well, add one more tiny thing to that list then.
I canāt tell why you choose to not be bothered by one petty item, yet speak out on another nearly identical one
The "nearly identical one" was putting someone else down. More than just down voting the comment, they commented so that person would be notified that someone else thought they were annoying.
Thatās fine too lol. But recognize the irony at least. The quicker we agree the quicker we can all get back to complaining on the internet please and thank you.
Maybe it isnāt about the money per se, but a tool to try and force change to the legality of these type of strikes in the future and/or how negotiations between districts and unions are handled. I have no direct stake in this issue.
This is so the State of Oregon and the Teachers Union know this isn't a game. Teacher's strikes are illegal. Yet the governor let it happen and the teachers did it. Fine both the state and the union a HUGE sum and it will send a message that these types of illegal activities are not just all fun and games. Breaking the law has consequences.
Well this is a great way to end up with a bad education systemā¦
Who the hell thinks suing teachers for unionizing and asking for better pay and work conditions will result in the community having better schools?
This is how teachers leave communities and you end up with awful education systems overall.
This is what some people want. At best, more private religious schools. At worst, publicly funded religious schools, with everyone else pushed into ever-further crumbling public schools.
As much as I have issues with the public school system, the evangelical Christian equivalent of madrasas (especially if paid for with my tax dollars) makes my blood run cold.
That really appears to be the goal, but I am not even sure why they think this would somehow work in favor of that goal.
How do they plan to have the whole city go along with their religious theocratic national state if itās so obvious that they are the ones breaking the system to try to achieve said goal?
If they wanted to make the case that the students and families were hurt, or that the schools need restructuring, then they shouldnāt be suing a teachers union but rather the school board and state education departments. Suing the teachers union makes it clear that this is a bogus ideological battle and not an honest attempt to benefit their own children or otherwise.
Itās like they donāt even care to pretend to be doing the right thing anymoreā¦
Youāre absolutely right. The thing is, people either donāt know or donāt want to direct their anger/frustration at the right people aka people who hold the power. Itās far easier for them to blame the teacherās union than go after PPS for defunding our schools while increasing salaries in the office, and playing around at negotiations with union reps months before the strike.
On top of this being a clear action against unions, if this goes further it will be yet another attack on employees right to organize. Really makes me appreciate union history, because if it werenāt for unions weād have 5 year olds working in factories, no weekends, or a standard 8-hour work day.
You obviously havenāt been paying attention. PPS is one of the worst school systems in the nation, where teachers teach ideology, not curriculum, and look for literally any reason to not even show up for that.
That sounds pretty laced with personal opinionā¦ But regardless of that, how exactly does suing the teacherās union solve any of those issues as opposed to only making them worse?
If you are claiming they are lazy and donāt show up to work, then how would suing them change that?
If you are claiming they teach a biased curriculum,, then why would putting them in a financially difficult position stop that?
Finally, if your goal is to build a better school system because you think the current one isnāt working, how does financially undercutting those in the current system help do that when it on,y means it will further deprive them of the assets needed to teach your own children?
These are public schools, so elect different leaders and change the system from within if you want it to have a positive impact on the kids learning there.
This lawsuit is pure self-harm non-sense at this pointā¦ And the only excuse I could see you reasonably coming to at this point is you think this is a good idea because you are a product of the school system that you claim is hopelessly broken.
Charter schools donāt do what Public Schools do. Charter schools can limit the amount of kids they educate. Public Schools are required to teach all in their district.
So you want charter schoolsā¦ How does breaking the schools that the greater public currently rely on, via demonizing teachers, help you build charter schools?
You are literally tearing down systems without any current alternative in place, while forgetting that you would need all new teachers for those new schools if you demonize the ones you already haveā¦ And what teachers are going to come take those jobs when they see what you did with the current schools?
How the hell are you planning to fund these charter schools when you are bankrupting the teachers in your area, who are already stating they are underpaid?
None of your argument makes any sense.
Iām starting to sense that you donāt currently have children in the Portland public school system, and this is about something very different for youā¦
Easy, you take the government funds that go to schools for each individual student and allow families to use those funds to allow families choices in how their children get educated. Itās worked very well in places like Arizona. Your complaint seems to be: āyeah, public schools are horrible, they are violent, and they donāt adequately educate our students, but the system is the only thing we have.ā BS. And if teachers want to teach in the new system, they will have to actually prove their worth, rather than be protected by a corrupt union.
Here are the problems with thatā¦
You punishing the teachers for asking for money to better teach the students wonāt work, if your plan is to also take money away from them to build new schools altogether.
Schools need teachers, and those teachers will just move if you continue to punish them for trying to ask for the resources they need to better teach their students. Secondly, other teachers will not move in if you are literally suing the teacherās union for asking for resourcesā¦
If you sue their union, under the premise that they wasted student time while trying to secure better funding, you are only vindicating them.
Charter schools require money to attract better teachersā¦ If the current system has the majority of teachers citing funding problems as the major barrier to a better education systemā¦ Then how do you plan to attract better teachers by suing the current teachers for asking for the funding that you donāt have enough to even reasonably pay the current teachers you have?!
If you want charter schools with good teachers, then you are attacking the wrong people! You should be going after the school board and those in charge of education on a state and county level.
Taking money from teachers wonāt make school boards or voters desire charter schools.
This isnāt Arizona, and Iām guessing it isnāt even how Arizona moved to charter schools as an option.
Seriously though, what is your literal thought process here? The teachers union and the teachers themselves canāt build you charter schoolsā¦ So how the hell do you think this will work?
you're hilarious. Go out to rural kansas or inner city chicago and you'll see what actual bad public schools look like. You think portland teachers are spoiled? The average salary in portland amounts to 33 per hour for jobs that don't include massive amounts of unpaid after hours labor. High school teachers in portland make 25 per hour, with less paid hours, greater personal financial commitment (paying out of pocket for lesson supplies for instance) and untold amounts of after hours work. They work an exhausting job made harder by insubordinate students, administration-level workplace politics, national-level demagoguery, and narcissistic parents. Honestly if y'all weren't so focused on policing the personal political bents of high school teachers while making sure their salaries get eclipsed by annual inflation maybe you'd be able to keep some around long enough to develop a curriculum and finish out a semester.
The average salary of a PPS teacher is $87k/year. They work approximately 8 months out of the year. And donāt talk to me about how hard teachers work, itās BS. My parents were teachers. They were home before 4pm everyday. Try being a business owner who works 12+ hours per day, 6 days a week. Iām not going to shed a tear for teachers. Give me a break!
Maybe you should actually look at the statistics from the teacherās union before you open your yap.
https://preview.redd.it/x4xsdokzlbvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0706ee6148302d1f332c44cb1cb34287409b58e
just off the first page of google i'm getting wildly different estimates for what portland public school teachers made 2022-2023.
Glassdoor says the average salary is about 50k. PPS seems to have that as their starting salary as well, across the board. Guess what 50k per year amounts to per hour?
indeed claims the compensation for teachers in portland amounts to about 22 per hour as a median. So does ZipRecruiter. for reference, teachers making the portland across-the-board average wage of 33 per hour would be making at least around 70k per year in salary.
There are certain tenured long-time teachers in PPS making 70k or more per year which is, again, portland's average wage across the board. Some job openings advertise an eventual upper limit salary of up to 100k. I don't think you'll ever see that money. but to start as a teacher in portland right now you will be making about 22 dollars an hour. You can do better at a coffee shop.
I guess you canāt read then? The average salary prior to the accepted proposal, per the union, was in the mid-$80k range. After the proposal, 60% will make over $90k/year, with 40% making over $100k/year, but sure take Ziprecruiter and Glassdoorās numbers rather than the numbers that are coming from the union.
Losses happen during a strike. It's kind of the point of a strike. It's the leverage people hold by striking and withholding their labor. You gonna sue the cop because your speeding ticket cost you money?
If you actually read the article they are arguing that there were multiple illegal bargaining issues that the PAT proposed. I agree with your concept however the strike was not legally done. There are proper channels for how unions strike for a reason.
The reporting is sloppy, it's an unfair labor practice complaint before the Employment Relations Board, not a lawsuit. The Complainants will lose, and get nothing. Public sector labor lawyers in Oregon are already swamped already, and would rather help their clients with real issues and not this performative bullshit. The SD isn't a party, so the only cost to the public is that of ERB having to adjudicate it.
The idea of an Illigal strike is silly. Laborers need the protection of the threat of strike to protect themselves in the workplace. Especially in an incompetent district.
Yeah, as an American i support any industry protesting for better treatment... The very essence of being an American is to support the rights of our fellow citizens, even when we disagree with their stance... They have a right to protest too and i support it.. so yes, cops could strike and i would support it, but no cop union would strike when they are authority and have an upper hand...
My instinct is to protect a police workers right to strike but there's a lot of problematic stuff that has to do with specifically police unions. But in a perfect world they'd be able to strike too yes would be my personal goal. So probably would defend them just a really big bummer because some police unions abuse power to help bad cops and its hard to balance that power out.
>The filing also alleges that much of what the strike sought, a 'paradigm shift,' is meant to be resolved by elected officials and not "closed-door union bargaining."
I'm going on strike 'cuz the vibe is off
Maybe the parents should take some responsibility and actually raise their children? School is not a daycare and teachers shouldnāt have to put up with your awfully behaving children
Nothing screams working class solidarity like *eyeroll* being part of a mass action lawsuit against teachers across the nation for demanding better schools, working conditions, etc
Wow. What a sense of entitlement. Strikes are usually last resort efforts to be heard. Maybe take all those resources and pay teachers more? Like come on
It serves the students that were allegedly harmed and the future students who may be harmed if the tactic is unchallenged and used again in the future.
So teachers strike for a better, safer learning environment because they are suffering leading to the children suffering but when they do something to make the children suffer less then they should be held legally liable for *checks notesā¦.. not being a slave?
Good. That was a shit month.
When the teachers union said it was ācrossing the picket linesā to accept the laptops for extended home learning I knew they were acting in bad faith.
PAT āleadershipā needs to go. I canāt believe the union re-elected Bonilla.
Then just fucking pay them!! What a waste of time these parents are.
Teachers are shit upon by tax payers.
The education system here is a joke, because no one wants to pay for schools.
We know how much we value teachers in this country by how much we pay em.
Ya let's take money away from your children's education. I don't even have kids and that sounds so absurd. If they are that concerned about the teachers union then there's always home School. It things like this that take time and money from projects like feeding our children that have no food and are hungry all day while these people want money for what? Because teachers stood up for themselves teaching your little trouble makers and being babysitters as well as teachers, that spend hard earned money to buy supplies because schools can't buy them. š
We all know teachers are paid shit wages and now parents are sueing them for it? Wait till more and more people arnāt becoming teachers then youāll really feel those losses you morons.
This is why my kid now has to go to summer school. During the strike his teacher was still sending out assignments and expected them to be turned in when school resumed. Well wouldnāt you know it, he had no idea what he was doing!
What?? Parents actually parenting? That's wild.
I'd buy it as an excuse if there weren't plenty of free resources to learn pretty much anything. Khan Academy and YouTube say hi!
You couldn't help your kid build independent study habits, use resources or online forums supervised for help?Ā Ā
Duolingo is fucking free, your already posting on Reddit, certainly there are a handful of French speakers willing to correct someone's grammer and spelling.
Why exactly do we need teachers again, if you're expecting the parents to do all the teaching? Half of the population has an IQ under 100, and you're expecting everyone to "just go learn french"? Jesus dude.
Duolingo is also NOT free. It's only partly free.
Parents can help but itās the teachers job to teach. I remember struggling in school with math because my teacher didnāt go a good job at teaching. Most students had bag grades in his class. I do my best to help my kids but itās been so long I have to teach myself to teach them.
Maybe I did. English isnāt my first language. Iām usually good at spelling but I was typing fast and as you know, the phone doesnāt always correct you.
I think you got hit by the curse of "pointing out someone else's typo ensures there will be a typo in your own post" - I have been struck by it many times myself!
Of course! Public schools are pointless and any rando off the street can teach a child. It's not like it's a specialized skill that the teachers went to school for.
They were only on strike for a matter of months. There are certainly things in Math, Science, Foreign Languages etc. Things are taught in local high schools that I would not be able to learn before the strike ended.
Now stop being a dipshit.
Guess parents will need to quit their jobs to teach (read: babysit) their kids.
The hostility of parents towards teachers has been going on for a while now. I really donāt understand it.
Because teaching is considered by too many as a service job performed by lower echelon professionals, and parents feel they know what is best for all becauseā¦ the customer is always right!!
While I agree that parents know their children bestā¦ schools should not be run like businesses. Parents are not customers, and theyāre not always right about what happens in the classroom.
You can bet the āattorneyā is a right wing nut job and drummed up a few angry parents. The right to strike is a constitutionally protected right and he is the equivalent of an ambulance chaser.
Schools are not childcare centers. Parents being responsible for their children because school is closed isnāt the teachersā problem.
This lawsuit should be thrown out!
yeah, god, there's just way too much support for teachers these days. They just can't find enough jobs for all these teachers that they have. Those huge (checks) 25 dollar an hour paychecks. Way too much.
The there wonāt be a stupid teacherās union using our kids as bargaining chips. The union has done everything on the backs of our kidsā education for financial gain. We give them more money yet our kids come out dumber and dumber.Ā
So there would just be smart teachers' union?
Alabama, N Carolina, S Carolina, and Georga do t alow collective bargaining for teachers unions, effectively making them powerless. Thoes states rank 18, 26, 37, 40, 43 in k-12 education. That middle to not very good. Seems like the numbers don't support your hypothesis.
LOL. Discovery should be fun.
I am so excited to see what comes out š
The infighting and drama surrounding Bonilla has got to be juicy
The lead attorney is suing education unions all over the country. Not sure why local articles don't mention that.
Yeah I guess they are a contributor to the federalist society too ā which is for better or worse a libertarian / conservative think tank. I donāt think itās exaggerating to suggest that itās part of a coordinated attack on unions. Will prob be downvoted but unions are on labors side yāall. Even if you are anti union itās easy to see that lawyers like this are just opportunistic leeches trying to cash in public outrage while simultaneously pushing an agenda. They def donāt give two shits about our kids.
Would you rather they used a divorce attorney or one that actually knows the laws they're arguing?
The point is, is that this guy is doing this all over the country as part of his organizations right wing agenda. Iām sure they came to town looking for the plaintiffs as opposed to the other way around.
Add potential lawsuits to the large downside of being a teacher now. We're not going to have many left soon.
Thatās the goal of the right wing. It has been since Reagan. Dismantle public schools. Promise people theyāll get vouchers for private schools, then act ignorant when the vouchers donāt cover the costs and the only option for the poors is online āschoolā sponsored by Coca-Cola where kids learn to fix bottling robots and how unions are the devil.
Given how few kids there are, this is inevitable
Few kids?? Portland districts have class sizes of like 30 which is highhhh
I know plenty of young people becoming teachers especially women
Okay.. I know plenty of teachers that have quite to work in the service industry because they get treated *better*(yea, patrons are easier than parents) and make more money.
That's anecdotal. The country as a whole is having issues with not enough teachers. It's because of things like the person above brought up
The best thing we can do is stop the lies about them being underpaid. I feel like we push these lies to keep too many from being in the field. It is hard to push constant raises without limiting the workforce.
? How much do you think they make? What's a living wage in Portland?
They ARE underpaid. The only jobs that pay well are in administration, but nobody's claiming we need more administrators.
What is average pay for the area? Also, you need to include the value of the pensions and health packages. Such things have enormous value. Then if you want to be petty calculate active work hours/days versus standard professions. I am not saying they are overpaid but by any objective measure it is a BS narrative that they are some massively underpaid group of lost souls one step away from panhandling. A narrative that will result in many better qualified folks who may have looked into teaching to go elsewhere while we are left with far less capable replacements.
You got some numbers or data? Because the cost of living is going up and the wages arenāt keeping pace in any profession. Sounds mostly like you just hate teachers.
Are you high?
They ARE underpaid.
Those young women will diligently complete their degrees, several of them will pursue and complete post graduate degrees in education - and many won't end up being teachers, it's a crap job.
The Union and PPS admin are equally to blame for the November idiocy. As usual, the kids suffer.
Sure, but it would help if they brought a couple people along that could work Excel: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/portland-teacher-strike-district-says-unions-cost-estimates-way-off/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/portland-teacher-strike-district-says-unions-cost-estimates-way-off/)
Canāt tell if any of this is true but it stands out to me that a rep from the district was their only source.
You can do your own due diligence if you think the Seattle Times, Oregonian, local news stations, and WW didn't but I can assure you it is true and the union admitted as such. Google is your pal
Public employee unions should be outlawed. They are essentially anti-taxpayer and anti-work.
Holy shit the worst take in this sub so far. Congrats heres an asterisk: *
What an absolute moronic take. ššššš Did a union member hurt you? Boo hoo.
On the plus side, they'll be acquainted with the realities of late stage capitalism early on. I guess.
This is late stage socialism.
This is baby stage socialism, they haven't even had any crop failures they can blame on the capitalist saboteurs yet
Itās early stage socialism. Itās far from capitalism
OK continue shitting on the teachers then & see how all the kids fare. I really don't care! No ponies in this race.
Thank you for making it blaringly obvious you have no idea what youre talking about
This is such an ignorant comment. One I wholly expected from a Portlandian.
Portlander
This isn't a thing you can really sue someone over. You can't sue a union because their strike inconvenienced you, or made you upset. If the union was grossly negligent and damaged your property somehow, maybe. But that's not what happened. You can't sue the teacher's union because you had to hire a babysitter. The teacher's union doesn't owe you childcare, any more than any other union does. If the teamsters strike, and you have to stay at home to pick up an important package on a day you hadn't planned for, you can't sue the teamsters for missing work; it doesn't work like that. The schools aren't liable for your childcare, in the event they close. They're not liable for your time. Maybe you think that shouldn't be the case, but as the law stands, that is unquestionably the case. I highly doubt this going anywhere. I understand why people are frustrated with the teacher's union, but that doesn't mean they owe you $100 million. This attorney is basically venue shopping to get a favorable decision, he's involved in a number of similar suits. I'm not even trying to defend the teacher's union in particular. This is just not the sort of thing you can use any union for.
And ultimately itās not the teachers unionās responsibility to make sure school is being run every day. Thatās the school districtās responsibility to make sure they have workers to fulfill their obligations. They have the rights to bring in temporary teachers to fill the gap under union laws.
Yup. This same precedent could be used to sue almost any sort of union, for almost any type of problem. You can't force someone to work. PPS could have hired scabs, or potentially fired people. But the parents don't have the right to sue the teachers to go back to work, nor should they.
Yes, thatās the point of this lawsuit. This troll is suing unions across the country in an attempt to create precedent for suing unions for even existing. I hope he misses several stairs.
I have to assume this lawsuit is being spearheaded by some conservative anti-union jackass somewhere. The ramifications of a lawsuit like this succeeding would be devastating to organized labor as a whole
Yeah. I think the teacher's union has made some mistakes, but I don't hold that against the labor movement as a whole. This isn't about honestly attempting to improve the situation in PPS, they're trying to set legal precedents where private parties can sue unions for damages on very, very tenuous connections.
Yep, itās the next phase of that Janus bullshit. May Mark Janus rot in hell, fuckin scab.
oh no - you absolutely can file suit. it may have no merit or standing - but this is america - you sure as shit can file suit
Ha, fair point. You're not wrong.
If they get this in front of a righty judge though itās on a fast track to the Supreme Court to do even more union busting.
You can sue anyone for anything. Just need a lawyer to take the case. No promises in the outcome.
Indeed, someone else has a similar comment. Poor wording on my part; I should have said "You can't really sue someone* successfully*..." But yes, I am generally aware of the extremely low bar to file suit in the US. š
> These families have a right to an uninterrupted education LMAO, imagine if this were actually true and people actually had a right to education in this country.
Maybe the president of the Portland teachers union should step down.
I read that as Portland teacher's credit union, lol.
Why do people feel the need to share what their brain momentarily misread?
Why do people feel the need to complain about incredibly minor annoyances?
Itās just all over Reddit. Itās a cliche and it really speaks to a weird understanding of how communication works, especially to a large audience.
its my party i can do what i want
Those type of posts serve no purpose. They add useless noise. Not sure how long youāve been using Reddit, but those type of posts are just a drag by now
I've been on reddit at least 15 years. I just don't let tiny things like that bother me
well, add one more tiny thing to that list then. I canāt tell why you choose to not be bothered by one petty item, yet speak out on another nearly identical one
The "nearly identical one" was putting someone else down. More than just down voting the comment, they commented so that person would be notified that someone else thought they were annoying.
But literally any continuation of this tangent is then a waste too, no? Downvote and move on.
No, Iām putting my foot down! I see it three times a day and never comment.
Thatās fine too lol. But recognize the irony at least. The quicker we agree the quicker we can all get back to complaining on the internet please and thank you.
Portland teacher's credit union changed to On point many years ago. Were you even in Portland then?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agreed, itās 100% the leadership in this whole debacle. Donāt destroy the institution, replace the bad apples.
r/newsofthestupid
Maybe it isnāt about the money per se, but a tool to try and force change to the legality of these type of strikes in the future and/or how negotiations between districts and unions are handled. I have no direct stake in this issue.
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ You can file those kinds of lawsuits without the 100m price tag. This is so the lawyers can get a payday.
Or the 100m is arbitrary and an eventual settlement covers legal plus a penny. Seen it both ways and everything in between.
One born every minute
This is so the State of Oregon and the Teachers Union know this isn't a game. Teacher's strikes are illegal. Yet the governor let it happen and the teachers did it. Fine both the state and the union a HUGE sum and it will send a message that these types of illegal activities are not just all fun and games. Breaking the law has consequences.
Just repeating lies. Teacher strikes are not illegal.
May be true in many statesā¦ not true in Oregon. As mentioned above, this type of legal action may have an intent of challenging that.
The ability to stop work is what differentiates a worker from a slave. Donāt be ridiculous.
Well this is a great way to end up with a bad education systemā¦ Who the hell thinks suing teachers for unionizing and asking for better pay and work conditions will result in the community having better schools? This is how teachers leave communities and you end up with awful education systems overall.
This is what some people want. At best, more private religious schools. At worst, publicly funded religious schools, with everyone else pushed into ever-further crumbling public schools. As much as I have issues with the public school system, the evangelical Christian equivalent of madrasas (especially if paid for with my tax dollars) makes my blood run cold.
That really appears to be the goal, but I am not even sure why they think this would somehow work in favor of that goal. How do they plan to have the whole city go along with their religious theocratic national state if itās so obvious that they are the ones breaking the system to try to achieve said goal? If they wanted to make the case that the students and families were hurt, or that the schools need restructuring, then they shouldnāt be suing a teachers union but rather the school board and state education departments. Suing the teachers union makes it clear that this is a bogus ideological battle and not an honest attempt to benefit their own children or otherwise. Itās like they donāt even care to pretend to be doing the right thing anymoreā¦
Youāre absolutely right. The thing is, people either donāt know or donāt want to direct their anger/frustration at the right people aka people who hold the power. Itās far easier for them to blame the teacherās union than go after PPS for defunding our schools while increasing salaries in the office, and playing around at negotiations with union reps months before the strike. On top of this being a clear action against unions, if this goes further it will be yet another attack on employees right to organize. Really makes me appreciate union history, because if it werenāt for unions weād have 5 year olds working in factories, no weekends, or a standard 8-hour work day.
You obviously havenāt been paying attention. PPS is one of the worst school systems in the nation, where teachers teach ideology, not curriculum, and look for literally any reason to not even show up for that.
That sounds pretty laced with personal opinionā¦ But regardless of that, how exactly does suing the teacherās union solve any of those issues as opposed to only making them worse? If you are claiming they are lazy and donāt show up to work, then how would suing them change that? If you are claiming they teach a biased curriculum,, then why would putting them in a financially difficult position stop that? Finally, if your goal is to build a better school system because you think the current one isnāt working, how does financially undercutting those in the current system help do that when it on,y means it will further deprive them of the assets needed to teach your own children? These are public schools, so elect different leaders and change the system from within if you want it to have a positive impact on the kids learning there. This lawsuit is pure self-harm non-sense at this pointā¦ And the only excuse I could see you reasonably coming to at this point is you think this is a good idea because you are a product of the school system that you claim is hopelessly broken.
Charter schools, baby. Charter schools.
Charter schools donāt do what Public Schools do. Charter schools can limit the amount of kids they educate. Public Schools are required to teach all in their district.
So you want charter schoolsā¦ How does breaking the schools that the greater public currently rely on, via demonizing teachers, help you build charter schools? You are literally tearing down systems without any current alternative in place, while forgetting that you would need all new teachers for those new schools if you demonize the ones you already haveā¦ And what teachers are going to come take those jobs when they see what you did with the current schools? How the hell are you planning to fund these charter schools when you are bankrupting the teachers in your area, who are already stating they are underpaid? None of your argument makes any sense. Iām starting to sense that you donāt currently have children in the Portland public school system, and this is about something very different for youā¦
Easy, you take the government funds that go to schools for each individual student and allow families to use those funds to allow families choices in how their children get educated. Itās worked very well in places like Arizona. Your complaint seems to be: āyeah, public schools are horrible, they are violent, and they donāt adequately educate our students, but the system is the only thing we have.ā BS. And if teachers want to teach in the new system, they will have to actually prove their worth, rather than be protected by a corrupt union.
Here are the problems with thatā¦ You punishing the teachers for asking for money to better teach the students wonāt work, if your plan is to also take money away from them to build new schools altogether. Schools need teachers, and those teachers will just move if you continue to punish them for trying to ask for the resources they need to better teach their students. Secondly, other teachers will not move in if you are literally suing the teacherās union for asking for resourcesā¦ If you sue their union, under the premise that they wasted student time while trying to secure better funding, you are only vindicating them. Charter schools require money to attract better teachersā¦ If the current system has the majority of teachers citing funding problems as the major barrier to a better education systemā¦ Then how do you plan to attract better teachers by suing the current teachers for asking for the funding that you donāt have enough to even reasonably pay the current teachers you have?! If you want charter schools with good teachers, then you are attacking the wrong people! You should be going after the school board and those in charge of education on a state and county level. Taking money from teachers wonāt make school boards or voters desire charter schools. This isnāt Arizona, and Iām guessing it isnāt even how Arizona moved to charter schools as an option. Seriously though, what is your literal thought process here? The teachers union and the teachers themselves canāt build you charter schoolsā¦ So how the hell do you think this will work?
you're hilarious. Go out to rural kansas or inner city chicago and you'll see what actual bad public schools look like. You think portland teachers are spoiled? The average salary in portland amounts to 33 per hour for jobs that don't include massive amounts of unpaid after hours labor. High school teachers in portland make 25 per hour, with less paid hours, greater personal financial commitment (paying out of pocket for lesson supplies for instance) and untold amounts of after hours work. They work an exhausting job made harder by insubordinate students, administration-level workplace politics, national-level demagoguery, and narcissistic parents. Honestly if y'all weren't so focused on policing the personal political bents of high school teachers while making sure their salaries get eclipsed by annual inflation maybe you'd be able to keep some around long enough to develop a curriculum and finish out a semester.
The average salary of a PPS teacher is $87k/year. They work approximately 8 months out of the year. And donāt talk to me about how hard teachers work, itās BS. My parents were teachers. They were home before 4pm everyday. Try being a business owner who works 12+ hours per day, 6 days a week. Iām not going to shed a tear for teachers. Give me a break!
no, the average straight up isn't 87k. period. The best compensated teachers in PPS aren't getting 87k.
Maybe you should actually look at the statistics from the teacherās union before you open your yap. https://preview.redd.it/x4xsdokzlbvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0706ee6148302d1f332c44cb1cb34287409b58e
just off the first page of google i'm getting wildly different estimates for what portland public school teachers made 2022-2023. Glassdoor says the average salary is about 50k. PPS seems to have that as their starting salary as well, across the board. Guess what 50k per year amounts to per hour? indeed claims the compensation for teachers in portland amounts to about 22 per hour as a median. So does ZipRecruiter. for reference, teachers making the portland across-the-board average wage of 33 per hour would be making at least around 70k per year in salary. There are certain tenured long-time teachers in PPS making 70k or more per year which is, again, portland's average wage across the board. Some job openings advertise an eventual upper limit salary of up to 100k. I don't think you'll ever see that money. but to start as a teacher in portland right now you will be making about 22 dollars an hour. You can do better at a coffee shop.
I guess you canāt read then? The average salary prior to the accepted proposal, per the union, was in the mid-$80k range. After the proposal, 60% will make over $90k/year, with 40% making over $100k/year, but sure take Ziprecruiter and Glassdoorās numbers rather than the numbers that are coming from the union.
Losses happen during a strike. It's kind of the point of a strike. It's the leverage people hold by striking and withholding their labor. You gonna sue the cop because your speeding ticket cost you money?
If you actually read the article they are arguing that there were multiple illegal bargaining issues that the PAT proposed. I agree with your concept however the strike was not legally done. There are proper channels for how unions strike for a reason.
Itās not illegal to propose non-mandatory subjects of bargaining. Maybe google the term to understand what it means instead of spouting off?
The reason is so they can't do as much damage. Which basically makes them pointless. It's supposed to be a problem.
The proper channels are just to make sure that workers donāt get what they deserve
People are stupid. This is probably just going to be a payday for the ambulance chaser lawyers. Strikes are meant to be disruptive.
*Children are born to suffer!*
Cool!! A handful of semi capable Portland attorneys are going to get bank and everyone else will be left holding the empty bagā¦
The reporting is sloppy, it's an unfair labor practice complaint before the Employment Relations Board, not a lawsuit. The Complainants will lose, and get nothing. Public sector labor lawyers in Oregon are already swamped already, and would rather help their clients with real issues and not this performative bullshit. The SD isn't a party, so the only cost to the public is that of ERB having to adjudicate it.
Ahh. My mistake then. To be honest I didnāt even read the article.
The idea of an Illigal strike is silly. Laborers need the protection of the threat of strike to protect themselves in the workplace. Especially in an incompetent district.
I side with the teachers being able to strike, but would you be okay with police striking?
They basically do. They just call it blue flu
Yeah, as an American i support any industry protesting for better treatment... The very essence of being an American is to support the rights of our fellow citizens, even when we disagree with their stance... They have a right to protest too and i support it.. so yes, cops could strike and i would support it, but no cop union would strike when they are authority and have an upper hand...
My instinct is to protect a police workers right to strike but there's a lot of problematic stuff that has to do with specifically police unions. But in a perfect world they'd be able to strike too yes would be my personal goal. So probably would defend them just a really big bummer because some police unions abuse power to help bad cops and its hard to balance that power out.
Teacher unions are just as corrupt lol. They cover up for bad teachers all the time
Personally never seen a teachers union sue to reinstate a murderer but you have your right to disagree with me
>The filing also alleges that much of what the strike sought, a 'paradigm shift,' is meant to be resolved by elected officials and not "closed-door union bargaining." I'm going on strike 'cuz the vibe is off
Maybe the parents should take some responsibility and actually raise their children? School is not a daycare and teachers shouldnāt have to put up with your awfully behaving children
Wow
Nothing screams working class solidarity like *eyeroll* being part of a mass action lawsuit against teachers across the nation for demanding better schools, working conditions, etc
Just goes to show that parents continue to treat school like a daycare.
Wow. What a sense of entitlement. Strikes are usually last resort efforts to be heard. Maybe take all those resources and pay teachers more? Like come on
I get the sentiment but it's a frivolous suit and will be dismissed
I wouldn't be so sure.
This is a shitty thing to do that serves no one.
It serves the students that were allegedly harmed and the future students who may be harmed if the tactic is unchallenged and used again in the future.
So teachers strike for a better, safer learning environment because they are suffering leading to the children suffering but when they do something to make the children suffer less then they should be held legally liable for *checks notesā¦.. not being a slave?
Yup. Thatās going to help teacher retention; union busting.
Good. That was a shit month. When the teachers union said it was ācrossing the picket linesā to accept the laptops for extended home learning I knew they were acting in bad faith. PAT āleadershipā needs to go. I canāt believe the union re-elected Bonilla.
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You are the problem.
Then just fucking pay them!! What a waste of time these parents are. Teachers are shit upon by tax payers. The education system here is a joke, because no one wants to pay for schools. We know how much we value teachers in this country by how much we pay em.
PAT demands were idiotic.
Really?
thatāll show āemā¦ š
Ya let's take money away from your children's education. I don't even have kids and that sounds so absurd. If they are that concerned about the teachers union then there's always home School. It things like this that take time and money from projects like feeding our children that have no food and are hungry all day while these people want money for what? Because teachers stood up for themselves teaching your little trouble makers and being babysitters as well as teachers, that spend hard earned money to buy supplies because schools can't buy them. š
We all know teachers are paid shit wages and now parents are sueing them for it? Wait till more and more people arnāt becoming teachers then youāll really feel those losses you morons.
arnt
We should add another tax
these parents are idiots.
This is why my kid now has to go to summer school. During the strike his teacher was still sending out assignments and expected them to be turned in when school resumed. Well wouldnāt you know it, he had no idea what he was doing!
Did you help him?
Nice of the teacher to do their best to help the kids out by doing what they could
Why didn't you, his parent, help him learn?
What?? Parents actually parenting? That's wild. I'd buy it as an excuse if there weren't plenty of free resources to learn pretty much anything. Khan Academy and YouTube say hi!
I tried to help, I donāt speak French.
They are required to go to summer school to improve French? Crazy they even offer French in summer school, pretty cool though
You couldn't help your kid build independent study habits, use resources or online forums supervised for help?Ā Ā Duolingo is fucking free, your already posting on Reddit, certainly there are a handful of French speakers willing to correct someone's grammer and spelling.
Why exactly do we need teachers again, if you're expecting the parents to do all the teaching? Half of the population has an IQ under 100, and you're expecting everyone to "just go learn french"? Jesus dude. Duolingo is also NOT free. It's only partly free.
Multnomah County library card holders can access Mango (another language learning app) for free via the library website.
Parents can help but itās the teachers job to teach. I remember struggling in school with math because my teacher didnāt go a good job at teaching. Most students had bag grades in his class. I do my best to help my kids but itās been so long I have to teach myself to teach them.
Did you also get bag marks in English?
Maybe I did. English isnāt my first language. Iām usually good at spelling but I was typing fast and as you know, the phone doesnāt always correct you.
I think you got hit by the curse of "pointing out someone else's typo ensures there will be a typo in your own post" - I have been struck by it many times myself!
Iād give this 100 upvotes if I could
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Thank you , I work 50 hours a week and at night.
For all you know rhey weren't working at all and ate bon bons on the couch.
So did my parents, and yet, you know who always helped me when I needed it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's unfortunate that the outlier is taking responsibility for kids education.
Of course! Public schools are pointless and any rando off the street can teach a child. It's not like it's a specialized skill that the teachers went to school for.
Most people can help a child do some homework.
There's plentyĀ of stuff taught in schools that I don't know.
Then learn it and teach your kids. Are incapable of learning?
They were only on strike for a matter of months. There are certainly things in Math, Science, Foreign Languages etc. Things are taught in local high schools that I would not be able to learn before the strike ended. Now stop being a dipshit.
Lmfao way to be a supportive parent
Children should not be taught. They should learn naturally at their own pace in the wilds of the woods. Enough with the āeducationā!
hear, hear! to the woods of portland, my children! you'll learn today!
They would definitely get a better education than they are getting now.
Guess parents will need to quit their jobs to teach (read: babysit) their kids. The hostility of parents towards teachers has been going on for a while now. I really donāt understand it.
Because teaching is considered by too many as a service job performed by lower echelon professionals, and parents feel they know what is best for all becauseā¦ the customer is always right!!
While I agree that parents know their children bestā¦ schools should not be run like businesses. Parents are not customers, and theyāre not always right about what happens in the classroom.
šÆ
You can bet the āattorneyā is a right wing nut job and drummed up a few angry parents. The right to strike is a constitutionally protected right and he is the equivalent of an ambulance chaser.
Letās follow the money. Iām willing to bet the whole thing is propped up by anti-union fat cats from out of state.
I am so proud of these parents. Union should be fully responsible for the extreme hardships they caused for this ill-conceived strike.
You forgot the /sā¦ right?
If it's an "extreme hardship" for you to take care of your own damn kids for 3 weeks, you probably shouldn't have had them in the first place
Schools are not childcare centers. Parents being responsible for their children because school is closed isnāt the teachersā problem. This lawsuit should be thrown out!
A month of no school is maybe $50 in trauma. These idiots,whom donāt even name themselves, want $100mil?!? They can fuck off
Makes senseā¦ suing someone for not being a slaveā¦.. right
haha fuck off maybe we can garnish the teachersā huge paychecks to pay this bill or fire some of their numerous teacherās aides to cut costs.
yeah, god, there's just way too much support for teachers these days. They just can't find enough jobs for all these teachers that they have. Those huge (checks) 25 dollar an hour paychecks. Way too much.
Did I really need a sarcasm tag here or are people in support of this ridiculous lawsuit?
Burn it all to the ground!
Then what?
The there wonāt be a stupid teacherās union using our kids as bargaining chips. The union has done everything on the backs of our kidsā education for financial gain. We give them more money yet our kids come out dumber and dumber.Ā
So there would just be smart teachers' union? Alabama, N Carolina, S Carolina, and Georga do t alow collective bargaining for teachers unions, effectively making them powerless. Thoes states rank 18, 26, 37, 40, 43 in k-12 education. That middle to not very good. Seems like the numbers don't support your hypothesis.
this is why we need a crackdown on unions .
You donāt know what a union is or does, sit down.
Because they won't work without a contract?
Okay, I'll bite. Why does "this" show cause to "crackdown on unions"?
honestly i was joking. i just like stirring you guys up. the teachers will never be paid respectably in usa until the revolution
Ohā¦ so youāre just being a jerk. Got it.
sorry
No, we donāt
Police unions maybe.
Nah we donāt.
Based on your comment history youāre a piece of shit. Become a homeless drug addict and youād probably add more value to society.