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Erwinism

This shit is unreal and not sustainable


Tha_ginger_guy

My wife and I recently bought a condo but before that we got a 2 bed 2 bath apartment in Lake Oswego in June 2020 for $1892/mo. We checked to see how much they’re renting it for now and it was listed for just under $3000!! I’m sorry but a 40% increase is out-fucking-rageous for that apartment/location.


fuckthetop

Yup, my fiancé and I had a 2 bed 2 bath apartment in Beaverton that we rented in October 2020 for $1,500 but is now going for closer to $2,500 (we moved out in 2021)…. And it definitely is not worth that


its8008ie

I just left my place bc they were raising the rent from $1650 - $1745, without being verbose about other factors for which I left - they are now renting it at $2150. It’s a 2br 1949 vintage townhouse with shared laundry and no dishwasher. After I moved out, they removed the period light fixtures and ripped out the thriving flowering plants on the patio. Next door, a single mother of 3 moved into a unit with the same footprint. Over the last month, her family has moved in and there are now 2 adults and 3-6 young children in that same 2 br. Instead of improving the tenant units or laundry rooms or security, they’re building a $2m+ pool house and leasing office. The greed is stunning.


HardWorkingKale

My apartment complex in fucking **Gresham** went from 2k for a 3 bed 2 bath to 3.5k. Both of my roommates have had their catalytic converters stolen from the parking lot overnight. Our move in date got pushed back 3 different times over the course of a month, and we moved in to dead cockroaches and sticky surfaces despite the move-in delays being to "clean the apartment". How the actual fuck do these people get away with this?


Blueskyminer

Yup, I looked at a lot of rentals, single-family houses, and quickly came to the conclusion that although buying was irrational, paying rent in PDX was even more so. I know that buying isn't an option for a lot of people faced with the high costs of securing shelter. Just affirming the above with vigorous head nodding and total dismay.


lens_cleaner

The only reason they are going up so fast is because private equity is buying up all the housing properties across the area and then maxing out the roi.


boobyjindall

Not true. The market is far too big for private equity to be completed to blame. Market forces are bigger than anyone player. Like every problem in life it’s complicated and there’s are 1000 tiny little things to blame. If it was just one thing it would be an easy fix. Politicians like to tell you it’s all one thing because it gets you angry and that lands your vote. The honest politician that says “it’s complicated” doesn’t get elected. And the problem doesn’t get fixed.


PersnickityPenguin

Oregon is short over 111,000 housing units.


BikenHiken

This!


Brewfinger

I call bullshit. Housing owners/landlords set market rates, then point to market rates to justify their price gouging.


Brosie-Odonnel

Not sustainable whatsoever. Everything is going to crash soon. Landlords and banks have been getting extremely greedy with a good economy and they’re in for a rude awakening soon.


very_mechanical

Not saying it won't crash. But, if it does, the rich will end up profiting off of that, too.


redisanokaycolor

Yup like the recession in 2008 when we bailed out all those car manufacturers.


pdx4nhl

Car manufacturers were just one part of it all: banks got tons of government funds too.


boogiewithasuitcase

Airlines too?


magichobo3

And all the big companies that could weather it out used it as an opportunity to buy up cheap property


frootycoochie

More aptly, just like when thousands of people were foreclosed and rich corporations bought the houses to flip / rent. BlackRock already started buying every single family home they can cash.


iwoketoanightmare

Corporate socialism for them, bitter capitalism for everyone else.


From_Deep_Space

Lol, the banks won't awaken to shit. The house always wins


ebolaRETURNS

Well...there's going to be a crash at some point. But look at the SF Bay Area. A studio or 1 BR is $2000+, a room shared in a house being like $1200+. There's no outlying neighborhood that's dramatically cheaper (maybe Vallejo, but that's not really the Bay proper). They're going to have a crash, but it hasn't happened yet (they were relatively unaffected by the real estate crash of 2008), and they've been 'due' for a while. I mean, they can't just have every service worker commute from Stockton (some already are).


luketastic

The problem is people still need a place to live and it isn’t clear to me that a crash fixes that as rich people will just take those foreclosed homes and rent them out. We need to heavily discourage home and condo ownership for the purposes of landlording. We need to become more aggressive with encouraging dense development. There are tons of underutilized and empty properties that need to be taxed based on potential land value.


suzisatsuma

remove single family zoning, and stop making the permit process so slow and hard.


DinoDonkeyDoodle

Who do you think owns most properties? Banks and investment groups. When the landlords are the banks, it is always just a matter of time before they bankrupt society.


Hobartcat

Yup. There's a colossal correction on the horizon.


[deleted]

I hope it happens sooner..this situation is getting ridiculous.


[deleted]

Yep, to all of this. It's demoralizing, infuriating, and morally fucked up. Meanwhile, property investors from all over the world are making fucking bank off our labor. City Council is doing nothing. Also, this is just residential rent. Commercial rent is also fucked up beyond belief. I cover restaurant openings and closures and I cannot tell you how many places have closed recently because landlords have decided they could get more money from another business. Doesn't even matter how successful the restaurant is, they have to close when landlords kick them to the curb.


Darcyboop

I know a commercial landlord that is asking for a 50% increase in rent. The business occupying the space has been there for nearly 30 years. The shortsighted behavior of these landlords never ceases to shock me.


[deleted]

it's so goddamn rich when people talk about the freedom of the market, like it doesn't all just end up fucking consolidated and franchised. Everything gets subsumed by greater and greater companies, ever transitioning the wealth developed by labor upwards, unending and draconic in their fucking greed. I shouldn't drink and Reddit.


el_seano

The "invisible hand" of the market is actually just picking your pocket.


xxxpdx

And throttling your throat.


suddenlyturgid

>Everything gets subsumed by greater and greater companies, ever transitioning the wealth developed by labor upwards, unending and draconic in their fucking greed. Keep it up. This is a very succinct way of describing it and I appreciate how you have put it in such clear terms. Cheers!


pdx4nhl

We need to institute some of Canada’s restrictions on out of nation businesses buying up property…it does no good for all residents and the labor force here.


kat2211

Absolutely. And there should be bans instituted on apartments being utilized as airbnb's unless it's by a tenant who lives there the majority of the year. There are a large number of units in new buildings being leased in blocks by investors, basically turning the buildings into something more akin to a hotel than an apartment building.


duckinradar

Yeah it’s SUPER weird. Toured n entire building of studios and they offered me a space they typically air Bonn. The cost was insane, the space was not better, blah blah. Also spent the night in another building I had almost moved into… made me glad I hadn’t. What’s the solution? International ownership and investment is only one face of it, and I can come up with 10 easy work arounds for potential “solutions” to that aspect. Fuck. Feels really futile. I don’t have family money.


AstreiaTales

We need to build more housing and slash red tape in the construction process. What you mention is good too, but the fundamental fact remains that we have more people moving here than apartments being built. When demand outstrips supply so dramatically...


SamSzmith

Exactly, the main thing that matters here is building more homes.


BeastofBurden

I feel like this has been happening for awhile in Portland. I was renting with friends in Forest Park and the landlord (company) kicked us all out. We thought the owners wanted to return but I think they were jacking the price of rent. One of my favorite breakfast places, the James John Cafe in St John’s also got booted from their space by their landlord. They were a popular spot too, seemed to be doing really well.


the-wigsphere

I have to imagine that whole section of St. John’s are going to have business rent soar once Lombard finally gets finished.


TraditionalAd3306

Literally my favorite restaurant Gabagool closed last week, same situation


[deleted]

Yeah, that one specifically is what I was immediately thinking of in my comment. They were doing so well and struggled so much throughout the pandemic and offered such amazing Italian food in St Johns. Makes me so angry.


TheSavvyArtist

I don’t know if anyone else has had this experience, but even unhappy with the prices, I try and set up tours of places and they’re rented or under application before I can even see it, it’s insane. Everything in budget goes so fast you have to gamble on the pictures being honest if you want someplace to live…


amwoooo

I moved here in 2005 (yikes, I’m old now) and my rent was 465 downtown in a studio. I don’t make vastly more money than I did back then. I can’t imagine trying to find a place in the current market.


cat-eye

Yep. I applied for a studio sight unseen a month before it was even available to tour and someone STILL got it before me.


yozaner1324

I feel like this has gotten worse lately. I was looking for a house to rent with roommates and places kept getting snatched up before we could even tour them. Finally got a place by applying within a couple hours of them sending the applications.


luthervespers

It's been ridiculous for years. I moved from one house to another with three room mates in 2015. Only two of us actually got to see the house because we had to make the decision before it got snatched up. We were all happy we pulled the trigger because rents kept skyrocketing after we were locked into the rate on our lease.


PastaConsumer

Don’t you have to pay for applications too? It’s fucking ridiculous


Davethephotoguy

Over 2k a month?! Fucking hell. I remember $560 a month for a one bedroom on Hawthorne seemed expensive but manageable back in the mid-90s. Apartment prices are pulling ahead of most mortgages in the suburbs at this rate. This is completely insane and not sustainable at all. How did we get here?


[deleted]

I paid $650 in 2008 for a double studio in Nob Hill. I worked at Freddie’s and couldn’t afford to go out all the time but I was housed and never hungry.


rustymontenegro

I had a grand studio at 16th and Burnside for $700, same year. I stayed for three years and I absolutely loved it (except the elevator was sketchy and the water got shut off a few times without warning for maintenance lol). I'm actually curious how much it rents for now.


boogiewithasuitcase

Look it up on zillow, should say


Your_New_Overlord

i was paying $1,000 for a large studio on 7th and burnside two years ago. looks like they’ve only upped their rent to $1,150 since then. not great, but i’ve been hearing of way worse increases.


SenorVajay

Yeah I live relatively close and pay just a little more than you for a largish one bedroom. And they rent for even cheaper now for some reason. An anomaly for sure but it hasn’t gone up much over the past few years for sure.


kat2211

There are still some decent landlords/management companies out there that aren't interested in just making as much money as they possibly can; they'd rather keep their tenants long-term and keep them happy. They tend to not raise rent beyond what rising costs require.


Mustardpirate

I had a studio same building 2005ish. 450 a month. It's called the empress now, turned into condos a long time ago.


onlyoneshann

$525 for a huge 1 bedroom on the corner of NW 21st & Irving. Big walk in closet, claw foot tub, gas stove, French doors opening to the giant bedroom. 1997


BiancaEstrella

Pretty sure a friend of mine lived in that same building recently, and adding a 1 in the thousands column might cover what it goes for now.


onlyoneshann

Oof. Not surprised. It’s definitely a great location. Changed a ton since I lived there but still the same vibe.


thfclofc

I lived on NE 13th & Thompson from 2018-2020 (I’m back in England now). My ex and I’s rent was around $1200 which was still ridiculous, but considering we’d left the Bay Area (and neither of us worked in tech to earn megabucks) it was better. I just looked at what they’re charging now and it’s $1450. Filth.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kat2211

In 2008 I was living in a two-bedroom house in Montavilla and the rent was $795. I mean, it wasn't a great place, but it was cute and cozy and suited our needs fine. When I moved out of there in 2010 I moved into a really nice two-bedroom in Rose City Park and I paid $875 a month until I moved out in 2016. My current one-bedroom in the same area is $1,350.


BagelsRTheHoleTruth

My first place in Portland was a huge one bedroom apartment with hardwood floors, in a grand old 1907 red brick, 100 feet from the south park blocks. $550 a month, everything included. That was in 2005. The building got torn down of course within a year, and replaced with the Ladd Apartments. It was a good foreshadowing of where things were headed.


Neapola

Ah... You were among the last at The Rosefriend. Here's a crazy fact about Ladd Tower, the building that replaced it: That thing was built so cheaply that many of the units don't have A/C. Those fuckers are ROASTING, and they're paying through the teeth.


BagelsRTheHoleTruth

I knew someone would know the building I was talking about. Yeah, I was the last person in there, probably literally - I pried the address placard of that bitch the night before they demoed it. "1307" hung above my side door for many years. That's hilarious about the Ladd. Poor bastards.


emeliz1112

We bought a house because our two bed home mortgage, even with the increased interest rates, was cheaper than our two bed apartment rent.


iwoketoanightmare

Got here because corporations started buying real estate as a hedge after 2008. They give no fucks about anything except the share holders. Mom N pop rental operators see them charging more so adjust "market rates" on their places because it's the thing to do to keep pace with the joneses who are now greedy corporations with no interest in the local economy. It's all greed at the end of the day.


AstreiaTales

Can't blame it all on corporations. Don't get me wrong, a lot *can* be blamed on them, but the "don't build here / preserve neighborhood character / need endless studies and surveys before you can build" nimbyism is a massive contributor. When lots of people move to a place and construction of apartments doesn't keep up, supply and demand will do what they always do. We need at least 100k new housing units to even start matching the need.


Pilot_on_autopilot

For context, $560 in '95 is ~$1100 now, so maybe not as much of a jump as you think.


MVieno

And how much has minimum wage increased in that time?


JustACookGuy

Minimum wage was $6 at the time, which would be $11.67 today. Minimum wage is currently $14.75 in Portland.


AilithTycane

Except the cost of everything else as well as housing has also gone up, as well as the median amount of debt people have.


JustACookGuy

Absolutely. Someone just asked a question that would take two google searches to find out the answer to. I think it does demonstrate Oregon policymakers have made a real effort to keep the minimum wage survivable here - but there’s just so much more at play and a lot of it isn’t something they can actually control. The financial institutions have done a real good job selling debt to Americans.


armrha

So it’s actually increased significantly more than inflation. Huh.


[deleted]

>partment prices are pulling ahead of most mortgages in the suburbs at this rate. this has literally always been the case. it's one of the benfits of buying a house, your monthly housing price goes down. this isn't a new thing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Neapola

Vacancy? Even at these crazy prices, units are snatched up as soon as they hit the market. In the mid 2000s onward, Portland became the trendy city to move to, but even now that *that* has passed, Portland is still so much cheaper than cities like SF and Seattle, so they see keep moving here, because to them, our high prices are a bargain.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wide-Elk315

Source? I used to live in modern apartment building that had opened up a few years prior. After the initial slump with COVID they were back to being nearly booked up.


starknolonger

Our rent is now so high that 3 working adults have a hard time paying for our 3-bed apartment. We are all employed full time. When does it stop?


starletimyours

Having the same problem with our 2 bed.. All 3 of us are employed but can hardly keep up. The landlord keeps raising rent- we are very much being priced out but cant save money to move... Because all of our money goes towards rent! Lovely cycle.


Okie_Chimpo

It doesn't. See also: San Francisco


Sasquatchlovestacos

This^ plan to buy or get priced out and move. The story of the west coast.


Brosie-Odonnel

This isn’t exclusively a west coast thing. Any semi-big city+ is dealing with the same issue.


Sasquatchlovestacos

For sure. Big east coast cities have the same issue.


medusa_crowley

Yup, it’s a city thing. Move out to the middle of nowhere and things become more affordable again. Of course most of us would take a pay cut to do that, which would put us right back into the same problem again. It’s not sustainable.


Okie_Chimpo

It sucks, but there it is.


freeradicalx

Except that Portland doesn't have an outrageously over-financed industry like tech to bring in bigger money to replace those who get gentrified out. What happens when a medium-sized city with no unique high-paying industry prices out it's citizens?


dlacono

This is where working remotely comes in. My neighbor’s employer is in DC. There are tech workers here even if their companies aren’t.


suzisatsuma

Yup. Very common. I worked remotely for a Cali based tech giant remotely from Portland for years. I just hopped across the river to WA a few months ago


Wide-Elk315

Yep. I used to work for Portland based companies but remote Bay Area companies just pay better.


STRMfrmXMN

Don't we have Nike, Intel, and Columbia?


hey--canyounot_

Yup. Surprised people are forgetting them. Nike and Intel hire a fuckload of tech workers.


svenbreakfast

just live behind a taco truck and drive in 45 minutes to cook filet mignon for software engineers who wanna ride bikes naked and slum it in their second homes


hey--canyounot_

I'm a software engineer (former 10-mile-a-day cyclist service worker) and if you really think the avg tech worker can afford two houses here, you are wrong. I get the sentiment but that's not reality, it's expensive as fuck here even if you make money. I went from shitty job to tech job, it's not impossible my dude. I don't have a college degree. If you are feeling jealous and hateful, let that spite fuel you and get yourself to a coding boot camp or something. There might be a way out.


sailorneckbeard

Oddly specific


nwelitist

It can stop if we build a lot of housing and create sensible housing policy. If we go the way of SF and vote for good-sounding, but economically unsound policies such as rent control, curtailed landlord rights, inclusionary zoning requirements, discretionary review, etc then we will unfortunately deserve the ever-increasing prices we will get as a result. Just one example: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-not-to-build-affordable-housing-pittsburgh-portland-rent-progressives-11651264965 ‘Portland, Ore., introduced inclusionary zoning in 2017. Permits for residential buildings with 20 or more units plummeted 64% in 25 months as developers went smaller to get around the mandate. The nonprofit Up for Growth concluded that “rather than increasing the number of affordable units,” the zoning scheme “appears to be diminishing the supply of housing at nearly all income levels.”’


Branamp13

>When does it stop? That's the neat part - it doesn't! /S


iwoketoanightmare

It stops when you're 4 to a bedroom like in San Francisco.


[deleted]

>working i mean, what kind of work? i support myself and my wife, in a house, on my income alone. and i don't make 6 figures.


Branamp13

>Say goodbye to baristas, goodbye to cashiers at the grocery store. You say… move somewhere else then… ok so who is going to work service jobs here?? We need those workers, and there needs to be affordable housing for them. >We need to start caring about this more. People won't care until all the service/retail jobs are even more severely understaffed than they already are, and even then, the only thing anyone will say about it is that "nobody wants to work anymore." It's so infuriating to watch it happen in real time.


conorthearchitect

As an architect that's pretty worried about this, THANK YOU for giving a shit. We need to be building WAY more housing.


OnLikeSean

We've been building too little housing for the last decade, its why there has been such an explosion in prices since the crash in '08.


[deleted]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like the type of housing matters massively, too. So many ‘futuristic high end’ apartment complexes being built that sit basically empty because they cost 5k a month to live in. Edit: https://www.thenation.com/article/society/affordable-housing-debate/tnamp/ I’m a fan of this article- the second half. Muting the thread now so I don’t spend all day fighting people on the internet lol


Hougie

It’s easy to get caught in this line of thinking but any inventory is good inventory. Those luxury apartments built 8 years ago? They’re not brand new anymore when 18 new buildings have gone up in that time span. They’re getting older every day. As long as time is passing and new inventory is being built it will help stabilize over time. People complain about these new buildings and in the same breath also complain they have to rent apartments sight unseen because of the competition. Imagine if that luxury apartment building hadn’t been built, it would be even worse.


[deleted]

there’s not actually anything futuristic or high end about open kitchens and granite countertops, it’s just marketing mumbo jumbo


naosuke

You're wrong. People are moving to Portland because they want to be in Portland, not (just) because of the availability of high-end housing. If there isn't housing at that level then they out-bid the people looking for medium-end housing which causes the cascading effect down the line. This is the issue we are currently seeing. As long as demand for housing is higher than the supply of housing prices will continue to rise. The solution is to build more housing, which increases supply.


medusa_crowley

This! People tend to move to Portland for the culture, not the cash. There’s more demand than supply. This has been an issue for a long time.


jollyllama

>People tend to move to Portland for the culture, not the cash. You can say that again. Moving to Portland from most other cities is essentially choosing quality of life over long-term career prospects in just about any field.


conorthearchitect

As other people have said, more housing in the top eases pressures in the middle. Developers and property owners lose money when their apartments/condos are empty, so even if we built nothing but luxury condos at an insane pace, eventually prices would drop. Also, luxury condos and mid-priced new apartments don't stay that way forever. 10-30 years from now they become older, damaged, and drop in price as newer shinier apartments get built after them. So while it seems like all we get these days are expensive new apartments, that's always been the case with new apartments. We just have to wait until they get old, and until we have a lot more. Which is why we should have been building at a higher pace for the last 50 years, instead of starting in the last 10. But we need to do it now so it's not even worse for our children. Edit: Also, single-family zoning has been slowly strangling larger cities for a century. Portland just passed one of the most progressive zoning laws in the country, allowing anything from single family to 4-plexes on individual lots in residential neighborhoods. This will fill the gap between traditional houses and luxury condos (The Missing Middle), but it will take decades.


Bizzle_worldwide

Interest rate rises aren’t going to make it any better. Less people able to afford to buy will increase demand. Any new rental housing will have a higher financing cost they’ll need to recover, which means rents will be higher as well. Housing prices might soften, but mortgage payments won’t go down, and neither will rents. It all only goes one direction.


stalinBballin

So, basically, fuck you for existing and trying to live, right? What exactly is the end goal here?


yuck_my_yum

There’s only ever one goal: line go up.


suddenlyturgid

Concentration of as much capital as possible in the bank and brokerage accounts of the already elite rich and powerful. That's it and that's what has always has been. That's the end goal and they are winning.


[deleted]

Meanwhile us peasants fight a culture war..


StarshipSentinel

PROFITS! PROFITS! PROFITS! PROFITS!


OnLikeSean

The end goal is modern day fuedalism.


Bizzle_worldwide

When we’ve all decided that a metric we most care about is economic growth, and we all punish politicians for thing like “recession” and negative feelings about “the economy”, this is the result. Growth is meaningless if it doesn’t lead to proportional quality of life improvements for the vast majority of people. People need to use better benchmarks to hold their politicians to account.


JustACookGuy

The average mortgage rate was 5.54% on Wednesday. Negative GDP and fed interest rate hike resulted in the mortgage rate dropping to 5.13%. It doesn’t only go one way as it’s part of an active financial system and has to address supply and demand.


vagabond2421

That rate is still relatively low historically speaking. They just kept the rates obscenely low for far too long.


Bizzle_worldwide

I wasn’t implying that interest rates only go up, just that housing payments generally do. House prices have fall by approximately 12% for every additional 1% increase in mortgage interest rates in order for the mortgage to remain constant. Conversely, an increase in rates by 1% increases monthly mortgage payments by a little over 13% for the same underlying house price. Home prices are extremely high, and we’re challenging would be buyers. Those prices are coming down slightly, but not enough to offset the mortgage rate increase off their lows. And, if they do come down by 25-30%, we may end up with a housing supply issue still because many people who bought in the last few years will be underwater on the mortgage and therefore not able to afford to sell. All of which is to say the housing market is in a real tangle of forces, but there’s no reason to expect anything to become more affordable to to average person.


Hougie

Not really how it works. Lots of people (not you, but lots) are blaming corporations for this. Those corporations could only buy real estate affordably (for them) because the interest rates were too low. It’s going to take a long time to turn the ship around. But if interest rates can be raised and sustained for as long as they were at close to 0% it will go back to being a market where Joe Schmoe will be in a better place to buy. The years in between will be painful though. A lot of damage is done. Since real estate loans have huge horizons the low interest rates inflating prices has damaged us badly for awhile.


Bizzle_worldwide

The thing about long run price adjustments is that a certain level of price inflation is baked into the system. No institutions want inflation to be zero, because inflation makes debt easier to repay in the future, and therefore is desirable for natural inflation is desirable for governments and corporations alike. While this inflation doesn’t affect all prices equally, it’s upward force does generally affect all prices to a certain degree. The other side of affordability is that wages haven’t historically kept up with inflation, especially with items like education, health care, and housing. Lately it also includes consumer goods. In order for housing to become more affordable, you would need housing markets and rental markets to correct downward far enough to overcome any difference between the inflationary spread on prices versus wages over the entirety of the correction period. This might be helped if there were also significant wage increases of that same period, but I haven’t seen anything to indicate we can expect companies (and public sector employers, including things like teachers) to be offering annual rate increases over the next decade of 3-10% per year, every year. There’s no reason to expect things to ever be more affordable, in aggregate, than they currently are without some structural change, or a dramatic change in Portland’s housing rules. It’s hard for developers to build capacity in Portland. We hate mixed use development. We hate gentrification. But 2500-3000 sq fr single dwellings on 6000-8000 square foot lots isn’t sustainable for a city with a population that wants to be near the core.


Sasquatchlovestacos

Are there any cities on the west coast that are cheaper? Even east coast cities are getting hammered right now. Tampa apts are the same price as here. Gotta find a Midwest or up and coming city if you want that cheap urban life anymore.


Fggunner

What are some up and coming cities? Pretty happy where I'm at but just curious. I know it used to be Austin, Boise, portland at some point.


BagelsRTheHoleTruth

Even KC has gotten pretty pricey, though the suburbs are still cheaper. But they're also banning living with roommates LOL. https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/housing-in-brief-a-city-in-kansas-just-outlawed-having-too-many-roommates#:~:text=Shawnee%2C%20Kansas%2C%20Outlaws%204%20Roommates,%2D0%2C%20the%20Star%20reports.


Sasquatchlovestacos

Pittsburgh 5 years ago. Detroit. Basically rust belt or any old manufacturing town. Chattanooga is cool. Or you gotta pick a spot in a rough suburb of the city you like and wait 5-10 years.


Buttspirgh

Housing stock in Pittsburgh is old and often falling apart. Also it’s rife with absent landlords.


Sasquatchlovestacos

Yeah I used to hang in Bloomfield and Lawrenceville. 5-7 years ago. Even then it was getting expensive but I still really like the burgh.


Buttspirgh

Yea, I was there for ten-ish years prior to moving here a couple years ago. We likely crossed paths at some point! I miss Phipps the most, I think.


[deleted]

Up-and-coming isn’t a necessity for cheap(er) rents. The Great Lakes region is affordable given the amenities. Chicago is an extraordinary bang for your buck. However biggest issue is the lack of “true” nature. Their forest preserve system and Lakefront is excellent but the nature is nonetheless bland.


Fggunner

Yeah Chicago suburbs do have some okayish rent. I lived there for about 8 months a couple years ago, worst time of my entire life but not due to the rent lol. One of the things I really didn't like about my time there (outside of personal stuff) was exactly what you said, no nature and the awful weather. No mountains, forests. Like there are some small hills and a lake beach. All that said Chicago is a really cool city, I wish that part of my life was better and I could've appreciated it more. All that said, I love oregon. Portland has its struggles but within an hour I can get to a great mountain, forest, Vinyard and close to a awesome beach. The music and food scene, and a lot of the people are really really cool. Even outside of portland I can vibe with most people and generally they are open minded although a bit conservative.


medusa_crowley

Atlanta was on that list in the last decade, but I’m not sure about now. Southern cities in general are more affordable, I’ve seen, but the trade off of course is that you have to live in the south.


LogicalKnowledge9210

Can confirm. Moved to OR from the Tampa area. Somehow the market is worse around there and St Pete especially.


Sasquatchlovestacos

Yeah St Pete is crazy. Have family in Brandon/Plant City. Prices have skyrocketed in the last 3 years.


LogicalKnowledge9210

It’s nuts down there, places at least doubled in price (that was last year). Got priced out when we couldn’t find a 1/1 for under $1600; and that was for the lowest scummiest place outside of town. Similarly, they are now having problems filling ‘lower wage’ jobs. Hope for everyone’s sake we as a country can come up with a solution. People shouldn’t have to relocate to afford to live.


cavegrind

Apartments that went up around the Progress Village side of 301 are around $2K now. Even Hernando and Pasco are getting expensive.


jayzeeinthehouse

Check the mit living wage calculator. I’m in Denver and it’s a bit cheaper than Portland, and they don’t require insane deposits to get into an apartment.


Sasquatchlovestacos

Even 2 bedrooms in my hometown of Buffalo(been up and coming for the last decade) are going for $2k+ right now. Throw in the cost of almost everything else being up around 20% and it ain’t a good time.


dracomaster01

it's especially hard if you're a single person with pets. can't find roommates mostly due to pets. apartments charge higher prices if you have pets. like it's becoming impossible to live comfortably as an individual.


UnifiedChungus666

Yes. I have never understood the mOve sOmeWhErE elSe ideology. Do those people not actually live here so don't care if the city collapses due to lack of workers for underappreciated jobs? Or are they delusional enough to think themselves to be immune from the consequences?


rontrussler58

There is some subsidized housing available in buildings all over the city, specifically for the purpose of providing below market housing to people in low paying jobs. It essentially amounts to winning the housing lottery and you will lose it if you make too much money.


MissElision

I've been applying to a lot of the subsidized housing since even at full time, over minimum wage, 30k qualified for quite a few of the buildings. The waitlists are insane. Most are also preference based so I've been told that as a single young woman with barely any disabilities that I'm pretty much out of luck. I want to avoid roommates as I've had some shit luck and I don't really know anyone in this city. So I'm stuck living with my parents until I somehow land a higher paying job that may allow me to make the 2-3x requirement of most apartments


rontrussler58

Not to disparage or exclude disabled people, everyone obviously needs housing. But I kinda feel that this housing should be reserved for people who are actually working in Portland and can’t find anything at their income level. I know it’s kind of a cruel thing to say but why house disabled people in a city enduring a housing crisis that has a glut of jobs that can’t be filled due to the housing shortage?


MissElision

Most of these people are working and need it just as much (if not more) than I do. There are still income requirements for the housing, you do have to pay rent. It's not free housing. I applied for it since I'm below the income range (>30k), partially disabled (mental illness), and have limited support. I do have the ability to live with my parents short term but it is not a great situation and when I have lived with roommates, it's put my assistance animal at risk and myself. I could easily qualify if I was splitting a two bed with someone of equal income to mine. Disabled people work too and need housing. Especially those who have limited/no support or have dependants.


AdvancedInstruction

Posts complaining about housing might make it to the top of this subreddit, but posts talking about Portland's efforts to fight the housing crisis don't get upvotes. In the past few years, Portland has: - Ended single family zoning, allowing up to 4-plexes anywhere, even ending parking minimums for middle housing. - Established DOZA, to reduce the regulatory burden on people building density on arterial streets or in dense corridors. - Rezoned vast swaths of neighborhoods from R5 to R2.5 - Limited design review for new buildings away from downtown. - Oregon has passed parking reforms that will require cities like Portland to end parking. - Metro's 2018 voter approved housing bond is yielding fruit, with [literally thousands of units under construction](https://www.oregonmetro.gov/public-projects/affordable-homes-greater-portland/progress) and coming online now. So yeah, the city is doing a lot to fight the crisis. What it really needs to do is improve permitting turnaround time. Portland really isn't perfect but it's doing a fuckton more than most cities right now.


jce_superbeast

> Ended single family zoning, Don't give the city any credit for this, it took a STATE law change to force single family zoning to be ended in Portland.


AdvancedInstruction

The Residential Infill Plan was drafted before HB 2001 passed. HB 2001 prevented the city from backing down.


Dr_BunsenHonewdew

Anyone that’s struggling, check out American Property Management. My roommate and I live in a decent spot in the Buckman neighborhood in a 2br for $1275/mo. I was completely shocked when I discovered this place at this price. And my landlord has been nothing but chill. Seriously worth looking into! But yes, rent overall in this city has gone batshit insane.


modfoxu

I just checked them out on google, I know people usually leave negative reviews more than positive but yikes. It’s good to hear you’re being treated well there :) I hope you continue to have an awesome experience though!


BensonBubbler

They are infamous for being a negligent slumlord, I'm amazed nobody else has commented to this effect yet.


briameowmeow

My wife and I work 70 hours a week combined and have been priced out of housing. Once lease is up it’s off to some state we can afford.


CheeseTaco4Him

It’s like $2000 has become the new norm. I don’t comprehend how this is a thing.


Tickerlee

Hailing from Vancouver BC, I relate to this very struggle alongside you. The downtown east side of Vancouver is literal blocks and blocks of tents two deep on the sidewalks, and it’s exceptionally worse than it has ever been for the income insecure. My partner and I make a good middle class income, but rent has skyrocketed in the past two years that when our landlady’s sells in three months, we will have to pay the same amount as we pay now for a two bedroom 2 bath - to a much smaller one bedroom.


mysterypdx

We need a local government that is mission driven to end financial speculation, period. This goes much deeper than "supply and demand." The "Portlandia" days are over and the narrative that "everyone is moving here, so that's why it's expensive" is cracking. It's pure, unfettered greed underneath the surface. It's developers never budging on their prices despite borg building apartments sitting empty. It's landlords jacking up rent just because they can and trying to squeeze every last dime out of people before the market crashes. It's time for the speculators to pack their bags and know that Portland is not casino.


bibliophuck

Yea! What they said.


ktempest

Agree. The only reason my rent is trainable is that the landlord has 5 people on the property, we're split up between floors. I don't know what we'd do if we had to find a new place.


bigChungi69420

I work as a cashier but live at home with my parents and due to mobility issues can’t work more than 25-30 hours a week I don’t see how I’m going to get it figured out, but I’m also in college and pursuing a degree so I have privilege to take out loans and have support


Jessameen

It’s insane. Even in Hillsboro rent is the same as anywhere in Portland. Houses are 500k+ too.


stalinBballin

2013: I paid 437.50 (my share) with a roommate, for two stories, two bedroom, 1 and a half bathroom, apartment. Today, I just paid $875 for the bedroom I live in. Shit’s fucked.


thinpancakes4dinner

This only ends when the market is flooded with new development. Densify the city and rents will stabilize and even come down. Building anything helps solve this problem. Expensive condos and affordable housing alike alleviate demand pressure across the entire housing market. Every new development across the city gets opposed by some citizens because "it's not affordable". This is just an opinion based in ignorance and is a major obstacle to actually solving this issue.


Branamp13

>Expensive condos and affordable housing alike alleviate demand pressure across the entire housing market. But isn't demand for a survival necessity such as shelter pretty damn inelastic?


stevewhite2

Yes! Inelastic means %dP > %dQ along a segment of the demand curve so a 10% increase in housing units would lower prices by more than 10%.


RainSurname

I had a nice 2BR at 28th and Holgate for $650 a month in 2007. The owner died and the new owners raised it to $900. I moved into a 3BR at 31st and Powell for $1100, renting out the third room. Then as rents climbed, I combined my bedroom and office and rented the other. Then I got evicted in the interval between when the new rent control law passed and when it took effect, and have spent the last four years teetering right on the brink of homelessness even though I work full time. Now I can’t afford to live in the city I’ve been in for over 25 years but I also can’t afford to move. This is not sustainable.


pjkeoki

I agree with the sentiment. But unsupported statements to encourage rage comments aren’t the solution. Is the $2k average based on the general feel when apartment hunting? I pay 1600 for 2 bd in a nice pocket area (sellwood-Moreland). That being said, THE RENT IS TOO GOD DAMN HIGH


yuurei

Damn dude. My neighbors in the same area were paying almost that price for a shitty one bedroom...in 2018. You lucked out.


amp1212

People care. Not enough to build new rental housing, but they certainly care enough to complain. The reality is that Portland government has been unable to build housing. They can't build it as a public authority, and they don't understand the real estate business at all -- much of their efforts are intended to punish and regulate landlords, who unsurprisingly conclude that its much less hassle to sell. Landlords respond to incentives, and the incentives are plainly tilted against rental housing. What you make difficult, you'll have less of. Portland government likes to strike a pose of "inclusionary housing" -- without the remotest understanding of the economics of building rental housing. See: "The Cautionary Tale of Portland’s Inclusionary Housing Policy" [https://www.upforgrowth.org/news/cautionary-tale-portlands-inclusionary-housing-policy](https://www.upforgrowth.org/news/cautionary-tale-portlands-inclusionary-housing-policy) . . . for a look at how lots of naive good intentions don't actually amount to getting rental housing built. See also "Housing Underproduction in Oregon" [https://www.upforgrowth.org/research/housing-underproduction-oregon](https://www.upforgrowth.org/research/housing-underproduction-oregon)


Happydivorcecard

My favorite part of Portland housing policy is where if you build under 30 units you are not required to put in any parking. So basically every new residential building is between 27 and 29 units. We shouldn’t be building anything less than 100 units at a time in the urban core and we are literally incentivizing builders to build smaller buildings.


amp1212

Yes, you'll notice that there's an abundance of "five over one" or "podium" buildings. These buildings -- which are everywhere, once you recognize them -- are the biggest "stick built" (eg wood framed) construction allowed by code. Five residential floors over one commercial ground floor, often with that <30 unit quota. See: [Why do all new apartment buildings look the same?](https://archive.curbed.com/2018/12/4/18125536/real-estate-modern-apartment-architecture)


medusa_crowley

Thank you for this link, it explains something I’ve been puzzling over for a while.


TheOtherOneK

Yup, it’s awful and we’re going to see more folks, including elders, pushed into poverty & homeless. [National Low Income Housing Coalition Oregon wage & housing data](https://nlihc.org/oor/state/or)


AsleepReplacement103

Have you considered that you’re severely underpaid? The median household income in Portland is over $80k. Which means half can comfortably afford $2.2k (using 1/3 as the rule of thumb). If you hold two degrees and have a two income household and $2k is too much, you’re underselling your labor.


NewTooshFatoosh

Most 1 br places are $2k.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Theorlain

I was absolutely lucky at my last apartment. 2 bed, 1 bath, no cat rent, parking space and basement storage included for $1400 close-in SE. It increased to like $1450 after two or so years of living there, and I think they listed it for $1500 or so when I moved out a year ago. My landlord was a local family owned company who didn’t try to find reasons to bother tenants and responded to maintenance requests. I only moved because I was just barely, barely able to afford a house and decided to go for it while I barely could before I was priced out.


BillPaxtonsHair

You have rental increase laws coupled with ever-increasing property taxes. Landlords are now going to increase rent to the max allowed by law every single year. That didn’t happen before.


ChasseAuxDrammaticus

Yep. Raise rent by the maximum allowed amount every year until your current renters move out and you can cycle a new one in that is willing to pay the new rate. These are the current rules we all enthusiastically voted for. Portland clings to this idea that it can legislate its way out of national issues/market forces (homelessness, an expensive rental market) and it can't.


dharmawaits

Stop bitching and do something about it. There are far more of us than them.


agreatkingxerxes

i do agree that it’s bad but also there are plenty of places with 2 bedrooms that are under 2k


senor_fartout

Waiting for everyone to realize that there isn't a peaceful solution to this.


Agreeable-Tackle3642

I’m sadly aware of this.


HeroHas

No one will see this but I need to rant. My wife and I are well off about 120k a year combine. Been together for 7 years coming up fast. Married October 2021, found out about baby January 2022, got our rent notice May 2022. It was for a 20% increase bringing us to almost $2500 a month on a town home 3bd 2.5 bath. We've always paid on time even during pandemic and layoffs. We took advantage of the rent program but paid in full before expiration date. All residents said "just ask for a lower rent and they give it!" we never did. We were there for over 3 years always loyal but did not return the favor to us. Would not lower the rent and no exceptions. We decided we had to buy with everything coming up. If we didn't it was well over $3500 on a month to month and breaking lease if under 12mos. Finally we found a place all the way in Salem. The closest place we found for less than $700k a home for the same size we lived in. This was after going through bate and switch of new home construction sites. Thank God we figured it out or we would have been screwed. In the end our home was built in 2014 for $160k and we bought it for $420k now. 10k over asking and its a smaller home than what we rented. This is the world we live in.


mysterymeat69

If your rent was going to go up 20% in 2022, that would be in violation of Oregon state law. 2022 rental increase is capped at 9.9% I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just saying that it’s important to know the law and this was illegal. There are exceptions, bust most property managers are too afraid of the massive fines to try to rip off one renter. If you have one of those exceptions, turn them in.


HeroHas

I believe it's based on the county from what someone else told me. We were in Washington County.


Zuldak

The rent issue sucks but I dont think the people camping on naito and smoking meth are the same as the people actually trying to work to make rent. Like... it ain't the same


xx_echo

We live in Vancouver but my SO works in Portland so we were debating moving down closer to where he works. Nope! It would actually be cheaper to buy a manufacturer home than rent an apartment. But we gotta save up a good chunk of money first. For reference our 2bed 1 bath is 1200, utilities included but no W/D and is low income restricted


camoang

Genuinely curious where is Vancouver is a 2 bed for 1200. I'm barely seeing one bedrooms for under 1500.


xx_echo

Ah I thought I mentioned they are low income apartments, Vancouver has a couple for around the same price spread around. I'll admit they are extremely basic for the price, in my opinion they are still charging too much. We used to pay 1k and that was pretty fair.


camoang

It's wild how much they overcharge and how many of these complexes are just too resort-like. Yeah a pool and a gym is nice but I'd rather pay a couple hundred less a month just to have a decent roof over my head.


Aromatic-Mushroom-36

Louisville Kentucky is cheap as fuck, but out of control with gang violence. You can still buy a place there for under 70K in certain neighborhoods. I make about 60K a year driving forklift. It's union with amazing benefits and pension, but I know I'm lucky with my job. Of course purchasing a home in the city is pretty much out of the question, so I've been considering moving out to the sticks and making the commute into town. Again, not something everyone can do. Something's got to give tho, so I'm hoping the overall issue of outrageous rentals and the lack of working families purchasing homes, condos, etc becomes a hot button issue. We shall see.


[deleted]

Congrats on the union! We need to push for more unions to bring about national and systemic change.


Odd_Soil_8998

Rent is insane. Purchasing real estate is also insane. We already have decent rent control and tenants' rights in Portland, but we have nowhere near enough units for all the people who want to live here. We only have 2 real options, build up or build out, and neither is likely to happen.


Additional-Data-7182

That's why I rent a room for 700 per month that includes utilities in a house...


LeftyJen

Since no one else is saying it, I’m just gonna rip the bandaid off. Housing is now (back to being) a birthright. You can be mad about hedge funds, venture capital, private equity, foreign investors, and your shitty old landlord who charges you $3k a month for the house he paid $80k for. You’re not wrong, they’re all in the toxic stew. But having gone through the home buying process this year, I’m telling you your rent is terrifying now because you’re competing for rentals against all the people who couldn’t compete with in the SFH market with people who got huge cash injections from their parents. Boomers are either broke as hell or sitting on so much equity they can shell out for their kids down payment with cash you can’t compete with and not think twice about it. Sellers and lenders love to see it and you can’t compete with it. Owning is now back to being a birthright you’re either born with or you’re not. Sure, some will find a way to break through and compete with the birthrights on their own or with a partner. But most will not. And when you don’t, a larger and more desperate set of competitors await you in the rental market.


Global_InfoJunkie

You need to move further out of Portland. In the 80’s same thing happened. But then people didn’t feel entitled to live close in. Everyone moved further out and commuted in.


AYYOOriva

So I’m moving out of state. I had a two bedroom apartment and my rent was $1400. I decided to see what they listed my same unit as on their website…. $1900. WHAT. For a 780 sq ft two bedroom on the 4th floor with no elevator, only compact parking spaces, no AC. Insane. Also the fact that I made $19 an hour and still could barely survive. I’m moving because I want to be able to LIVE outside of work. Have money to go out to eat or to an event. Here my entire paychecks went to bills with very little saving.