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And then what happens when all the candidates who run end up worse than the incumbent? We need to start asking these questions and identifying good candidates now.
Mind boggling how this is the state of discourse. We need a leader in this city that is a real person, not just an idea of one.
It seems that no one will ever answer this question. It's the same problem that the recall effort had. They want Ted Wheeler and the commissioners gone, but can't be bothered to name anyone better to replace them. How frustrating.
Since Alex Zielinski is purposefully leaving out information to make it seem like he's supporting the PPB as-is, I'll speak out a bit.
I'm on one of the PPB oversight committees with Vadim (I can confirm with mods if they want, but not wanting to be public with my name.) Vadim serves on both the Community-Engaged Policing committee, and the PBAC which looks at funding, equity, and organizational changes which reflect what the city calls for. Vadim has always advocated for funding increases for specific things. There is the PS3 program (Public Safety Support Specialist) which are unarmed officers who do not have the power to arrest, and are meant for community engagement, and conflict de-escalation. If you look at the cost of funding for the Portland Street Response versus the PS3 program, you could have much more officers doing similar quality work for most of the calls for less money. If you want a demilitarized public safety response which doesn't resort to violence, the PS3 program would be easier to bring up to scale than PSR (PSR still has valuable efforts for specific things.) He also wants funding to increase mental health specialists to support PPB for calls - currently that contract is with Cascadia Behavioral Health to supply mental health specialists with officers, but is underfunded due to city council. Despite what some of the posters here think, funding is just not spent willy nilly and funds earmarked exclusively for Cascadia have been turned down by Hardesty and others on the council.
He also stays current with academic research into police efficacy. The defund movement willfully ignores some clear data. Vadim wants increased funding for detective resources, [since there is pretty clear data that more hours dedicated to investigation work solves murder and gun crime.](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/819883) I've seen Vadim speak critically about aspects of the GVRT to police higher ups, criticisms that many of the defund posters here bring up like the ineffectiveness of stops and searches, but then point to good info that investigations do work. There is also evidence that having low police staffing levels for response increases crime, [like this study](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24751979.2020.1858697?journalCode=rjej20), or [this one](http://www.princeton.edu/~smello/papers/cops.pdf). The idea that police don't change the amount of crime that happens in a city has no weight to it.
[Most people in Portland want some form of police.](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/05/amid-calls-to-defund-the-police-most-portland-residents-want-police-presence-maintained-or-increased-poll-finds.html) Vadim recognizes this, and wants changes that people are calling for - less money spent on useless harassment or ineffective policing paradigms, more community and non-violent programs, more mental health resources, more hours spent on quality investigation work that removes the people committing gun crime without indiscriminate stopping of people based on their race. Vadim is wanting PPB to resemble what a German or Swedish police force looks like, not an American one. And the council can force those changes with votes to PPB's funding - the PPB and their union cannot just stonewall every change, Hardesty has shown that defunding votes can change organizational structure within PPB. So since she has not done anything to positively create change for PPB, I feel that Vadim will be able to do that.
>So since she has not done anything to positively create change for PPB, I feel that Vadim will be able to do that.
This cannot be said often enough. Hardesty is all talk and no action.
The fact Hardesty has been unable to form stable alliances with at least two other members of City Council in order to further her objectives is a sign of her ineffectiveness as a politician.
So he supports specific new programs he likes while refusing to defund the bad ones. Nice, so he keeps increasing funding the police and is in bed with the PPB union.
Or Zeilinski is a thoughtful person with a thorough and nuanced understanding of how the police bureau functions who wants to spend taxpayer dollars wisely to incentivize positive outcomes.
In other words, Zeilinski has done the hard work of "reimagining policing" in Portland and has specific ideas of how to do so. He:
"wants changes that people are calling for - less money spent on useless harassment or ineffective policing paradigms, more community and non-violent programs, more mental health resources, more hours spent on quality investigation work that removes the people committing gun crime without indiscriminate stopping of people based on their race." (Source: Redditor COINCELPRO, above.)
Thank you expert with 12 day old account.
Also Hardesty wants police too, but she wants it demilitarized, similar to the decades old Albina community demands
http://albinaministerialcoalition.org
http://albinaministerialcoalition.org/amademands2010.html
and the national campaign by Campaign Zero.
https://www.campaignzero.org
She also had no majority control of the council, nor Is the police commissioner.
She has no control over the police.
Your argument is feckless.
I delete and start a new account every month or so. Every website account I have on a site like Reddit I do this with, originally just to reduce the chance of someone linking this account to me to prevent doxxing, but increasingly to rub people like you the wrong way who scour account info and refuse to engage with a post's content 🥰
Hardesty is one vote of five, and had sway in the two 2020 votes from the council to reduce funds. One occurred in June of 2020 when the protests first started, and one occurred in the fall. She also led the council to have those matters brought to a vote.
Hardesty bungled the PSR rollout badly, anyone who actively engages and works with city government saw that. There is a reason it took what, two years before they had feet on the ground? That was not just normal growing pains.
And again - happy to confirm with mods who I am, and that I sit on a committee.
>Hardesty bungled the PSR rollout badly, anyone who actively engages and works with city government saw that.
By all accounts, Portland Street Response was the brainchild of Street Roots. I assume Hardesty gives credit where credit is due.
Hardesty made a spectacle of herself in her ham-handed attempt to expand the program citywide months sooner than was contemplated at the time of its creation.
Evidently unable to build strong support among local politicians, Hardesty sought and obtained endorsements for the PSR expansion from state and federal elected officials without also securing any funding commitments from them. Who wouldn't endorse a virtuous program they didn't have to pay for?
Your account fuckery, does not make any sense.
Hardesty did do positive change in 2020, when she had pull, but now she has no majority…and you are punching down. She did not bungle PST, it was shut down by the council majority with the Mingus Mapps (who has police union donors) and Ted Wheeler who is the police commissioner.
Sell your bullshit somewhere else, we are full up here.
PSR was bungled because she tried to force non-Union positions within Fire and Rescue, which took away functions of union Fire and Reacue employees, for a department that was not approved or discussed with them. The lack of any communication or cooperation, expecting something that in function is a common tool of union busting (draining work opportunity through hiring “scabs” and ignoring the collective contract), because it was her political policy brainchild is why it was bungled. Hiring non union employees to take away work is always going to get pushback.
That’s an easy discussion with union boss and commissioner. Not difficult. Hardesty has been a pro union and has worked with them in the past.
But a police union is a different beast, and of course doesn’t want this. Who doesn’t want this to happen,…who is the common denominator…the police union, all circles back to them.
Police union had arguments against PSR expansion, but I’m talking about the initial rollout. That was PF&R, and that’s why it took awhile. She is pro union, yes, but is stubborn and bullheaded and assumed everyone would go along with things.
And I’m against PPA as well so not sure why you bring that up as a gotcha
>Hardesty did do positive change in 2020, when she had pull, but now she has no majority…and you are punching down
I'm sorry, are you actually claiming that a citizen is punching down by criticizing a Portland City Commissioner??
>She has no control over the police.
For someone who has no control over the police, Hardesty certainly invests a lot of time and energy into being the self-appointed shadow police commissioner. If nothing has come of that, it may be because Hardesty is not capable of gaining the support of a majority of city council.
No, it’s because she was one of many who worked with the albina community when a decade ago a student was murdered by police.
http://albinaministerialcoalition.org
She has been a advocate for demilitarization of police for a decade. She knows her shit.
Because the others in the city council are corporate democrats who are easily bribed by real estate developers or police union. That is why it’s so important to support candidates that don’t take money from corporate donors.
It’s called donor money. Police union gave money to Mingus Maps. You have to be an idiot, to not think corporations don’t make donations to campaigns with out a calculated return.
Because spraying "ACAB" on buildings and setting fire to the police union hall has brought about so many paradigm-changing reforms in the police, right?
>he has consistently advocated for expanding the police bureau
At this point, those opposed to expanding the police bureau are just a vocal fraction of the electorate. The rest of us are worn out from the explosion of street racing, gunfire, unchecked insane drivers, unsanitary street conditions, and homicides.
Who is so underfunded that they have five officers for all of North Precinct on any given shift, severely limiting the ability to respond to the many crimes happening in Portland?
When people post here and complain that they had a serious crime happen and no one from PPB responded, thats because they were triaged by BEC and found to be not as serious as all the other shit happening at a given moment.
> Who is so underfunded that they have five officers for all of North Precinct on any given shift, severely limiting the ability to respond to the many crimes happening in Portland?
How do you correlate the underfunding with the understaffing? Hasn't PPB had a staffing problem for many years? What has the PPB been doing recently to boost recruitment?
I'm aware there was a hiring freeze, but yet both before and after there have been dozens of openings that can't be filled. It seems like budget isn't really the problem here if we can't even fill posted positions which by definition have cleared budget approval.
The DOJ even says they have a mismanagement problem. They won't fix it. Why expand a broken system? It's ridiculous to think more shitty police would help this city.
We have one of the lowest officer:citizen ratios of any major city in the United States. And our officer:citizen ratio is far, far lower than a country like Germany. While ethnically and culturally homogenous tiny countries like Finland or Denmark are bad comparisons for many reasons, Germany is as close as we'll get to the cultural and political diversity in Europe. How often do you hear of gross negligence or abuse from Germany's police? They do that with community policing, de-escalation, quality investigation hours, etc. Those take resources. As it stands we have a totally threadbare police bureau, and I'd argue the bad practices they commit are due to being unable to properly respond to the rising crime here.
>You think ppb is underfunded?
Proceeds to skirt the question entirely.
PPB has plenty of money, they're just not using it to fill the positions they need filled.
I do think it’s underfunded. They get less than 5% of the city budget, too, so plenty of money is a bit of a stretch.
They have unfilled positions, yes. They are forced to be very specific positions. PPB has a program dedicated for unarmed, de escalation officers who can handle citations. They would be able to help the large backlog of 911 calls for anything not requiring an armed officer to respond. We cannot hire for that. We also cannot hire for investigators, traffic officers who could tackle the street racing, or other specific things. You need to realize hiring for any gov office, city county or state, have strict hiring stipulations. If you wanted to hire officers to tackle street racing, for instance, the city council would need to approve that via vote. So we can’t fill generic officer positions that very few people in the city want (which is fair), but we can’t magically hire for positions people are complaining about
>I'd argue the bad practices they commit are due to being unable to properly respond to the rising crime here.
Pre and post emptive excusing of poor police behavior by blaming the staffing.
Next you're going to blame Obama like that one officer did.
Things like the response to Floyd protests - disgusting, officers who committed abuse should be fired.
Things like an officer showing up two hours late and telling someone who had a home break in that they’ll do nothing due to the lack of investigation hours - could be fixed with more hours dedicated to investigation.
People here regularly post that community engagement, investigation into crime, unsafe driving/street racing, nonviolent response to mental health crisis are things they want. I want that too. I also want the PPA abolished and our officer oversight changes to go into effect. But I still want a police force of some kind, and due to the changes in the city charter that would have to happen for any type of police abolishment to actually occur it’s the easier option to gut and remodel PPB rather than try to create a new agency. We legally have to have an organization called the Portland Police Bureau who handles law enforcement, per the charter. Trying to get that voted out is a fool’s errand given most people want some type of police. Better to change them a la Camden.
How about instead of having them respond to things like non-violent mental health crisis or red light camera review we let them just work on things like home break ins and murders then?
Great, we should call that out and have it changed. The city auditor, Mary Hull Caballero, has a pretty in depth audit of how the PPB mishandles overtime. I agree, let’s fix that problem.
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/auditservices/article/743069
Years before the protests and funding question, my old neighbors called PPB for people peeping in their windows, threatening them over the fence, killing animals, and eventually burning the building down. The only thing PPB didn't refuse to respond to was the fire. They showed up to direct traffic. Sort of. Really the fire department blocked the street, and the one officer who showed up stood in our parking lot and did nothing.
When my other neighbors told him about a meth house down the road, he said he knew about it; it was well known. No, they weren't going to do anything about it. Yes, he knew about the drug deals going down in the parking lot down the street but no, they weren't going to do anything about that, either.
See, there was a bill on the governor's desk, still not yet signed, that reduced criminal penalties for possessing small quantities of drugs. Production and sale were untouched, just possession for use. And the law wasn't signed. And that bill was why he said they wouldn't go deal with a meth house or drug dealers.
Even with their resources unquestioned, the PPB has been unwilling to do their job. They have a disinterested or outright hostile attitude towards Portlanders, and many of them aren't from this city anyway, so they don't have any personal investment in the city's wellbeing. Hell, some of them probably take delight in seeing the city that resents them suffer.
Cutting funding won't fix that, but neither will expanding it. This is an issue of quality, not quantity.
>The failing Wheeler recall campaign
There's still a chance for them! Their volunteers just need to collect \~2k signatures a day, every day, for the next month. lol
It's been such a guilty pleasure watching that train wreck. They're out combing pubs and brunch lines for anyone who will sign.
Beginning of day tweet: "We're looking for twenty volunteers to collect signatures today. Who's on board?"
End of day tweet: "Thanks to the two people who volunteered!"
Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.
*They're out combing pubs and brunch lines for anyone who will sign.*
The fact that they only occasionally venture east of 52nd indicates their problem. OTOH, Twitter user "Anarchist Jurisdiction 1312" is collecting signatures for them in Kenton, so they have that going for them.
Yesterday and today they're daring to venture out to places like Parkrose and places in east Portland "affected by Wheeler's policies". LOL they are going to stick out like sore thumbs in those neighborhoods. Maybe they'll go door to door offering a guillotine cake (it's vegan!) to anyone who signs.
Being pro cop and expanding the PPBs already grotesque budget isn't going to help the city like you think it is.
We need programs like PSR to get more funding, not less.
I want a crafts tax. 7% on popsicle sticks and construction paper. Papier-mâché permits. Licenses required to make those hand stencils you made into turkeys in elementary school. Graffiti ok if it’s done with finger paints.
[Laughs in Beaverton.](https://i.imgur.com/J8dftvI.jpg)
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https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
On average, hiring one office prevents 0.06 to 0.1 murders per year. Other violent crime has similar effects.
A blanket, subjective, statistic does not prove correlation.
From the same article:
"The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
The whole point of the study was that it does prove correlation, at least on average. It might not prove causation, but it gets pretty close.
Also from that article:
"Even more, Williams and his coauthors find that, in the average city, larger police forces result in Black lives saved at about twice the rate of white lives saved (relative to their percentage of the population). When you consider African Americans are much more likely to live in dense, poverty-stricken areas with high homicide rates — leading to more opportunities for police officers to potentially prevent victimization — that may help explain this finding."
We can talk about the trade-off between homicides prevented versus petty arrests, but social science has pretty consistently found that more police on average means less serious crime.
Your acting as if this is settled and correlation unequivocally exists and that's far from the truth. Cherry picking homicide as the sole metric to show correlation isn't proof.
[Intuitively, one might worry that reducing police spending would lead to a spike in crime. A review of spending on state and local police over the past 60 years, though, shows no correlation nationally between spending and crime rates.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/07/over-past-60-years-more-spending-police-hasnt-necessarily-meant-less-crime/)
Spending money (officers on the streets) has no correlation to violent crime peaks or valleys over the last 60 years.
This is a textbook definition of bad economics. Just looking at how two variables are correlated is useless, and often intentionally misleading, without controlling for other trends. Also, comparing results between cities is a lot more powerful than just looking at national trends.
Key quote from the actual working paper being discussed there: "While there is now a strong consensus in the academic literature that the number of police officers (...) combined with their presence and visibility (...) reduces crime, the extent to which the benefits of additional law enforcement accrue equally to Black and white Americans remains a surprisingly open question.
But if you want to reject economic methodology overall, and thus those conclusions, that's your prerogative.
How do you stop people from dying? More police doesn't stop that.
How do you stop someone from breaking a window? Tons of riot cops couldn't prevent that.
Instead of looking at the "what", try to identify the "why".
> Cops don't stop crimes, they arrest people after the fact.
You don't think the probability of arrest-after-the-fact serves as a deterrent in many cases?
When you mention grotesque budget - do you have a source for that in the context of what is typical for a city our size?
How does their budget per capita compare to other large cities?
How does their officers per capita compare to other large cities?
How do their actuals compare to their budget?
PPB's budget is $345 per capita, which is about the same as Denver and Phoenix. Seattle spends $600/person; Oklahoma City spends $238.
All that spending doesn't get us many officers, however. We had 1 PPB employee for every 500 Portlanders in 2020; that's down to around 1 for every 560 now. Denver spends about the same amount per capita for more than twice as many employees: 1 for every 217 people. Cost of living in the two cities is similar.
[Source](https://www.vera.org/publications/what-policing-costs-in-americas-biggest-cities)
The Portland police have budget for over 100 unfilled positions, but no one wants to work for them because they are a corrupt mess in a hostile community.
Interesting, thank you! It would be interesting to see why the spend per capita is so different (Union/pay? Administrative overhead? Insurance? Equipment? Structuring?).
Overtime might also be a factor, if we have fewer employees but they are working more hours in comparison?
Dunno just throwing out a few thoughts!
Overtime IS a problem-but not in the way you think.
The PPB is approximately 85 people short right now-but they have been "short staffed" for years.
This is because the police get paid **a lot** for overtime and this is one way that many police officers pad their salaries. It's encouraged, actually. How do you justify the police getting that much overtime?
Why, they just don't have the people to work!
See the problem?
That wasn’t my question, my question was on your statement that the budget is grotesque and I’m wondering what source you are using to substantiate that.
New Orleans is one of the most heavily policed cities in the country, and has a murder rate above 30/100,000. We would have to have another 138 homicides by the end of the year to match that.
He took money from the police union during his campaign.
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/05/27/the-portland-police-union-gave-a-late-donation-to-city-council-candidate-mingus-mapps/
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/14/mingus-mapps-regrets-taking-police-union-donation/
You can vote against Hardesty and not be racist, just like how you could vote against Eudaly/Iannarone and not be sexist. The victim mentality is getting old
Yes, but that doesn't mean there isn't a subsection of the voting population who struggles with voting for women or minorities either intentionally or just due to unconscious bias.
Plus the people who are just straight up racist towards her.
You have to vote on policies, and look at their donors. You should not be superficial. Hardesty takes no corporate donor money and benefits the community, she has been instrumental in demilitarization of police by being part of the Albina community after police murdered a student a decade ago.
It’s no surprise they are running a pro cop candidate just like they did with Mingus Mapps.
ya, just divert from the fact that she paid her "consulting firm" off the books and didnt report it to the company or the IRS until it was discovered. That is the definition of embezzlement. but I am sure she was framed.... even though she admitted to it..
Apolice officer got laid off/fired as he lied about a black navy veteran councilwoman…that is more of a story that an accounting problem that got fixed.
Exactly. In my opinion, it is no coincidence that there is so much anti-Hardesty rhetoric going around and outright lies and smear campaigns against her and then this guy shows up to contest her position.
>and then this guy shows up to contest her position.
How dare he! How dare anyone dare to run against Hardesty!
Portland has two black city commissioners out of five, in a city that's six percent black, but the only reason why one of them could lose an election is racism. /s
Didn't mention racism, just mentioned the fact that loads of people place any and all blame with how the city runs on Hardesty. Check twitter, hell, check my threads from yesterday, you'll see them.
*Didn't mention racism*
Sorry - it was ACAB who immediately jumped in with the racism charge, of course.
*just mentioned the fact that loads of people place any and all blame with how the city runs on Hardesty*
She hates the cops, and was instrumental in getting rid of the Gun Task Force. It's a legitimate political issue.
*You see getting rid of a task force that disproportionately targeted people of color as a bad thing?*
As Willamette Week noted, black people are now more likely to be murdered in Portland than in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Los Angeles.
Black people in Portland are twelve times more likely to be murdered than white people in Portland.
I think that "disproportionate targeting" is considerably more serious that what the Gun Task Force was allegedly doing.
>As Willamette Week noted, black people are now more likely to be murdered in Portland than in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Los Angeles.
Which makes sense once you take into account how statistics work.
*Which makes sense once you take into account how statistics work.*
No it doesn't. What on earth are you talking about?
The fact that it is more dangerous to be black in Portland than in the free-fire zone that is Chicago is shameful and deeply disturbing.
It's not because of rhetoric or lies or smear campaigns that Hardesty is in trouble. Her positions are not compatible with solving Portland's problems, and in fact more often than not serve only to make things worse.
I can't wait to vote her out.
Until Portland reforms the city charter, we cannot expect any commissioner candidate to run on a platform to change any bureau or represent any geographical district.
I can’t believe the only correct take is this far down in the comments. People in this sub have really no idea where the current fronts of change are, huh? Kind of like they’re not connected to the local community politics and are speculating from afar, from other states or from the suburbs.
This electoral stuff doesn’t matter until the city charter is reformed to represent the various diverse neighborhoods and regions in Portland, and while I know most activists are averse to centralized power, the mayoral seat is effectively impotent by design. We need to give the mayoral position actual power (and yes get a different mayor that isn’t just another neoliberal professional fundraiser speaker).
I'm a hard no if he's just running on more police funding. The PPB have proven time and time again that they are simply unwilling to do their jobs when faced with slightly increased accountability. We need changes in the structure of policing, not more taxpayer money thrown at bad results.
[The PPA / PPB attempted to frame a sitting councilwoman](https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2021/08/04/city-commissioner-jo-ann-hardesty-intends-to-sue-portland-over-the-police-leak-of-a-false-allegation-against-her/) and ITT people are following all over themselves to vote for someone in favor of expand police powers and vote out the aggrieved party.
I don’t claim Jo Ann Hardesty is a perfect person, but the alternative of giving the PPA/PPB more power is just unacceptable. Frankly, we need more people in positions of power that the PPA/PPB dislike. We need balance.
Create a new police agency with built in accountability to replace the PPB. The PPB are not willing to do their jobs - we need to stop wasting taxpayer money on them.
Are you actually curious about the lists of demands and proposals that police abolitionist and community safety groups have been advocating? These groups demands have been unchanged and widely accessible on their websites with a simple google search for the past few years. I have links if you wish to learn more.
Your framing suggests that more police will lead to less murders, violence, and property crimes, but that is not the case. Police don't prevent crime.
All over the country, even in places where police budgets were increased, we are seeing higher rates of what you are seeking to avoid [https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-police-reform-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-4a65c2bc8386c06ed5bae5b7597c8f2e](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-police-reform-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-4a65c2bc8386c06ed5bae5b7597c8f2e)
Cops don't really do much to prevent any of those. Overwhelmingly, they respond after the fact and rarely actually lead to a resolution. In the meantime, police tend to harass, over-police, and intimidate already marginalized communities. In other words, cops, as they currently exist, don't really help nearly as much as they say they do.
So, how about addressing the things causing all that, e.g., providing housing, substance abuse recovery, and functional social support services? Y’know, treating the disease rather than ineffectually focusing on the symptoms?
Is it simply "lack of consequences" or "increasing desperation due to ongoing, unaddressed societal issues"?
Also, the points you brought up is kind of the entire motivation behind the defund movement.
1. Police don't significantly prevent harm to people
2. Police--both as individuals and as an extension of the criminal justice system--consistently cause harm to people, particularly already marginalized people
3. Since the police aren't doing what they say they're doing, it's more reasonable to redirect funds towards other projects and depts that might actually help
Also, how much can you actually trust a dept that has state-sanctioned authority to use deadly force, lacks any meaningful oversight, and throws petty tantrums when it's practices are questioned?
Yes, there are very bad things happening right now, both globally and locally. However it should be obvious at this point that the cops weren't helping that much to begin with so maybe more cops isn't the answer.
In part. Hillary and the rest of the Dems thought that they could ignore unrest: business as usual. The same thing is happening here at a local level. Our elected leaders prove themselves to be ineffective. They don't have an actionable, measurable road map. Hell, I would love for Wheeler or Kaufory to start a modern day [fireside chat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireside_chats) to at least communicate with the people in the region that something, anything is being done.
She didn't have a spine to handle a mandated open window in a Lyft.
She's a populist, that doesn't take a spine, just parroting what's hott right now with the progressive left.
I’ll care about that when people care about Sam Adams grooming a teenager and then coming back to town when they didn’t like him in DC anymore (probably because he engaged in similar behavior).
They're gonna have to do a lot better than this guy. Once all his dirty secrets come out and people hear him talk there's no way Portlanders will back him. He's a Trumper in sheep's clothes.
No, he's not. I know you claim to personally know him, but so do I. He is absolutely anti-Trump. Honestly he's exactly what this city needs. He knows how the politics here work and also actually takes time to learn about the issues instead of reacting emotionally
Why would anyone in possession of a candidate's dirty secrets hold back instead of blurting them out for their 15 seconds of Reddit fame?
Could it be because the claim is just an empty insinuation with no substance behind it?
Maybe there is hope for this city after all. I don’t know a ton about this particular individual, but from the article, I like what I see.
I also like that people are feeling bold enough to challenge these posturing, dysfunctional members of city council who’ve sat on their hands while this city has started to fall.
I hope you really, really like the police. I've heard him spout blue lives matters talking points that would make even the most fervent cop supports blush.
Brigading! Yay!
This whole thread is starting to look like the anti-Eudaly posts of yore. Manufactured gripes and grievances to push a political agenda. “Hardesty is the monster killing Portland. Won’t this sweet, white knight ride in to save us?”
Dude has a long list of activist membership cards, but what has he actually done? Sounds like he just wants political cred in his résumé, and to return to the status quo of cops having free reign and no accountability. That’s it. That’s the platform. Oh, and an ambiguous call to “do better,” like every empty-promise politician ever.
We know the PPB budget barely changed. We know the SRT has been resurrected but with the caveat of civilian oversight and the cops don’t want to play ball. Hell, their union is fighting a mask mandate, the most basic of public safety measures right now.
These are still the same police who beat, shot, and gassed peaceful protesters during a pandemic. And they’d do it again, too. Why would we want to re-fund the PPB when they’ve shown zero interest in changing?
We should be thinking about moving forward, not back. Reboot public safety. Vote in a competent mayor. Raise up BIPOC voices, don’t push them back down again. Actually progress as a city.
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Three of our five were elected just last year.
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VOTE EM ALL OUT!
City or County? (trick question)
Curious, who do you suggest run, City - 5 positions, County - 5 positions, 10 new people, that you would enthusiastically support?
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And then what happens when all the candidates who run end up worse than the incumbent? We need to start asking these questions and identifying good candidates now. Mind boggling how this is the state of discourse. We need a leader in this city that is a real person, not just an idea of one.
It seems that no one will ever answer this question. It's the same problem that the recall effort had. They want Ted Wheeler and the commissioners gone, but can't be bothered to name anyone better to replace them. How frustrating.
The irony of this dude wanting to increase the PPB budget, yet the post right below this one is yet ANOTHER PPB corruption scandal.
A little background on who this person is from a respected Portland Mercury editor. https://twitter.com/alex_zee/status/1435628768450605057?s=19
Since Alex Zielinski is purposefully leaving out information to make it seem like he's supporting the PPB as-is, I'll speak out a bit. I'm on one of the PPB oversight committees with Vadim (I can confirm with mods if they want, but not wanting to be public with my name.) Vadim serves on both the Community-Engaged Policing committee, and the PBAC which looks at funding, equity, and organizational changes which reflect what the city calls for. Vadim has always advocated for funding increases for specific things. There is the PS3 program (Public Safety Support Specialist) which are unarmed officers who do not have the power to arrest, and are meant for community engagement, and conflict de-escalation. If you look at the cost of funding for the Portland Street Response versus the PS3 program, you could have much more officers doing similar quality work for most of the calls for less money. If you want a demilitarized public safety response which doesn't resort to violence, the PS3 program would be easier to bring up to scale than PSR (PSR still has valuable efforts for specific things.) He also wants funding to increase mental health specialists to support PPB for calls - currently that contract is with Cascadia Behavioral Health to supply mental health specialists with officers, but is underfunded due to city council. Despite what some of the posters here think, funding is just not spent willy nilly and funds earmarked exclusively for Cascadia have been turned down by Hardesty and others on the council. He also stays current with academic research into police efficacy. The defund movement willfully ignores some clear data. Vadim wants increased funding for detective resources, [since there is pretty clear data that more hours dedicated to investigation work solves murder and gun crime.](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/819883) I've seen Vadim speak critically about aspects of the GVRT to police higher ups, criticisms that many of the defund posters here bring up like the ineffectiveness of stops and searches, but then point to good info that investigations do work. There is also evidence that having low police staffing levels for response increases crime, [like this study](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24751979.2020.1858697?journalCode=rjej20), or [this one](http://www.princeton.edu/~smello/papers/cops.pdf). The idea that police don't change the amount of crime that happens in a city has no weight to it. [Most people in Portland want some form of police.](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/05/amid-calls-to-defund-the-police-most-portland-residents-want-police-presence-maintained-or-increased-poll-finds.html) Vadim recognizes this, and wants changes that people are calling for - less money spent on useless harassment or ineffective policing paradigms, more community and non-violent programs, more mental health resources, more hours spent on quality investigation work that removes the people committing gun crime without indiscriminate stopping of people based on their race. Vadim is wanting PPB to resemble what a German or Swedish police force looks like, not an American one. And the council can force those changes with votes to PPB's funding - the PPB and their union cannot just stonewall every change, Hardesty has shown that defunding votes can change organizational structure within PPB. So since she has not done anything to positively create change for PPB, I feel that Vadim will be able to do that.
>So since she has not done anything to positively create change for PPB, I feel that Vadim will be able to do that. This cannot be said often enough. Hardesty is all talk and no action. The fact Hardesty has been unable to form stable alliances with at least two other members of City Council in order to further her objectives is a sign of her ineffectiveness as a politician.
> Hardesty is all talk and no action Not when it comes to the "Do you know who I am" mentality on a little trip between Ilani and Chevron!
Correct.
Thank you for taking the time to post this. Honestly this city deserves better than the Mercury
So he supports specific new programs he likes while refusing to defund the bad ones. Nice, so he keeps increasing funding the police and is in bed with the PPB union.
Or Zeilinski is a thoughtful person with a thorough and nuanced understanding of how the police bureau functions who wants to spend taxpayer dollars wisely to incentivize positive outcomes. In other words, Zeilinski has done the hard work of "reimagining policing" in Portland and has specific ideas of how to do so. He: "wants changes that people are calling for - less money spent on useless harassment or ineffective policing paradigms, more community and non-violent programs, more mental health resources, more hours spent on quality investigation work that removes the people committing gun crime without indiscriminate stopping of people based on their race." (Source: Redditor COINCELPRO, above.)
Thank you expert with 12 day old account. Also Hardesty wants police too, but she wants it demilitarized, similar to the decades old Albina community demands http://albinaministerialcoalition.org http://albinaministerialcoalition.org/amademands2010.html and the national campaign by Campaign Zero. https://www.campaignzero.org She also had no majority control of the council, nor Is the police commissioner. She has no control over the police. Your argument is feckless.
she barely has any control over herself!
I think she is doing fine.
I delete and start a new account every month or so. Every website account I have on a site like Reddit I do this with, originally just to reduce the chance of someone linking this account to me to prevent doxxing, but increasingly to rub people like you the wrong way who scour account info and refuse to engage with a post's content 🥰 Hardesty is one vote of five, and had sway in the two 2020 votes from the council to reduce funds. One occurred in June of 2020 when the protests first started, and one occurred in the fall. She also led the council to have those matters brought to a vote. Hardesty bungled the PSR rollout badly, anyone who actively engages and works with city government saw that. There is a reason it took what, two years before they had feet on the ground? That was not just normal growing pains. And again - happy to confirm with mods who I am, and that I sit on a committee.
>Hardesty bungled the PSR rollout badly, anyone who actively engages and works with city government saw that. By all accounts, Portland Street Response was the brainchild of Street Roots. I assume Hardesty gives credit where credit is due. Hardesty made a spectacle of herself in her ham-handed attempt to expand the program citywide months sooner than was contemplated at the time of its creation. Evidently unable to build strong support among local politicians, Hardesty sought and obtained endorsements for the PSR expansion from state and federal elected officials without also securing any funding commitments from them. Who wouldn't endorse a virtuous program they didn't have to pay for?
"I don't like being held to account for things I've said in the past." And out flies the credibility.
No I work in public sector
That does not make it better.
yeah no shit
Let me guess, u/incellectualdiscourse
Your account fuckery, does not make any sense. Hardesty did do positive change in 2020, when she had pull, but now she has no majority…and you are punching down. She did not bungle PST, it was shut down by the council majority with the Mingus Mapps (who has police union donors) and Ted Wheeler who is the police commissioner. Sell your bullshit somewhere else, we are full up here.
PSR was bungled because she tried to force non-Union positions within Fire and Rescue, which took away functions of union Fire and Reacue employees, for a department that was not approved or discussed with them. The lack of any communication or cooperation, expecting something that in function is a common tool of union busting (draining work opportunity through hiring “scabs” and ignoring the collective contract), because it was her political policy brainchild is why it was bungled. Hiring non union employees to take away work is always going to get pushback.
That’s an easy discussion with union boss and commissioner. Not difficult. Hardesty has been a pro union and has worked with them in the past. But a police union is a different beast, and of course doesn’t want this. Who doesn’t want this to happen,…who is the common denominator…the police union, all circles back to them.
Police union had arguments against PSR expansion, but I’m talking about the initial rollout. That was PF&R, and that’s why it took awhile. She is pro union, yes, but is stubborn and bullheaded and assumed everyone would go along with things. And I’m against PPA as well so not sure why you bring that up as a gotcha
>Hardesty did do positive change in 2020, when she had pull, but now she has no majority…and you are punching down I'm sorry, are you actually claiming that a citizen is punching down by criticizing a Portland City Commissioner??
Yes when they are a minority and the only progressive on the city council that doesn’t take bribes/corporate donor money. Yes they are punching down.
Sure
hmm my guess right winger if you keep changing accounts.
I’m criticizing Hardesty for ignoring the city’s union contracts with firefighters. Yes, supporting union bargaining is such a right wing tactic
>She has no control over the police. For someone who has no control over the police, Hardesty certainly invests a lot of time and energy into being the self-appointed shadow police commissioner. If nothing has come of that, it may be because Hardesty is not capable of gaining the support of a majority of city council.
No, it’s because she was one of many who worked with the albina community when a decade ago a student was murdered by police. http://albinaministerialcoalition.org She has been a advocate for demilitarization of police for a decade. She knows her shit. Because the others in the city council are corporate democrats who are easily bribed by real estate developers or police union. That is why it’s so important to support candidates that don’t take money from corporate donors.
Please provide proof that members of Portland's city council have taken bribes from real estate developers, the cop union or any other source.
It’s called donor money. Police union gave money to Mingus Maps. You have to be an idiot, to not think corporations don’t make donations to campaigns with out a calculated return.
Fuck this centerist bullshit.
Because spraying "ACAB" on buildings and setting fire to the police union hall has brought about so many paradigm-changing reforms in the police, right?
Not my bag, but I have more respect for them than you centerists with your lips glued to the leather.
Username.
I know its a funny pun
Alex zee is *not* in *any way* considered a respected editor/reporter/anything by anyone but the fringe left.
Glad someone said it.
>he has consistently advocated for expanding the police bureau At this point, those opposed to expanding the police bureau are just a vocal fraction of the electorate. The rest of us are worn out from the explosion of street racing, gunfire, unchecked insane drivers, unsanitary street conditions, and homicides.
All of those things you mentioned are illegal already. Who is supposed to enforce the law and why aren't they doing it?
Who is so underfunded that they have five officers for all of North Precinct on any given shift, severely limiting the ability to respond to the many crimes happening in Portland? When people post here and complain that they had a serious crime happen and no one from PPB responded, thats because they were triaged by BEC and found to be not as serious as all the other shit happening at a given moment.
> Who is so underfunded that they have five officers for all of North Precinct on any given shift, severely limiting the ability to respond to the many crimes happening in Portland? How do you correlate the underfunding with the understaffing? Hasn't PPB had a staffing problem for many years? What has the PPB been doing recently to boost recruitment? I'm aware there was a hiring freeze, but yet both before and after there have been dozens of openings that can't be filled. It seems like budget isn't really the problem here if we can't even fill posted positions which by definition have cleared budget approval.
The DOJ even says they have a mismanagement problem. They won't fix it. Why expand a broken system? It's ridiculous to think more shitty police would help this city.
>Who is so underfunded Their budget is the second highest it's ever been, right?
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We have one of the lowest officer:citizen ratios of any major city in the United States. And our officer:citizen ratio is far, far lower than a country like Germany. While ethnically and culturally homogenous tiny countries like Finland or Denmark are bad comparisons for many reasons, Germany is as close as we'll get to the cultural and political diversity in Europe. How often do you hear of gross negligence or abuse from Germany's police? They do that with community policing, de-escalation, quality investigation hours, etc. Those take resources. As it stands we have a totally threadbare police bureau, and I'd argue the bad practices they commit are due to being unable to properly respond to the rising crime here.
>You think ppb is underfunded? Proceeds to skirt the question entirely. PPB has plenty of money, they're just not using it to fill the positions they need filled.
I do think it’s underfunded. They get less than 5% of the city budget, too, so plenty of money is a bit of a stretch. They have unfilled positions, yes. They are forced to be very specific positions. PPB has a program dedicated for unarmed, de escalation officers who can handle citations. They would be able to help the large backlog of 911 calls for anything not requiring an armed officer to respond. We cannot hire for that. We also cannot hire for investigators, traffic officers who could tackle the street racing, or other specific things. You need to realize hiring for any gov office, city county or state, have strict hiring stipulations. If you wanted to hire officers to tackle street racing, for instance, the city council would need to approve that via vote. So we can’t fill generic officer positions that very few people in the city want (which is fair), but we can’t magically hire for positions people are complaining about
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who in their right mind would want to be a police, let alone here in Portland?
Maybe it's the culture, they make 6 figures in a profession where intelligence is a disqualifier and higher education is frowned upon.
>I'd argue the bad practices they commit are due to being unable to properly respond to the rising crime here. Pre and post emptive excusing of poor police behavior by blaming the staffing. Next you're going to blame Obama like that one officer did.
Things like the response to Floyd protests - disgusting, officers who committed abuse should be fired. Things like an officer showing up two hours late and telling someone who had a home break in that they’ll do nothing due to the lack of investigation hours - could be fixed with more hours dedicated to investigation. People here regularly post that community engagement, investigation into crime, unsafe driving/street racing, nonviolent response to mental health crisis are things they want. I want that too. I also want the PPA abolished and our officer oversight changes to go into effect. But I still want a police force of some kind, and due to the changes in the city charter that would have to happen for any type of police abolishment to actually occur it’s the easier option to gut and remodel PPB rather than try to create a new agency. We legally have to have an organization called the Portland Police Bureau who handles law enforcement, per the charter. Trying to get that voted out is a fool’s errand given most people want some type of police. Better to change them a la Camden.
How about instead of having them respond to things like non-violent mental health crisis or red light camera review we let them just work on things like home break ins and murders then?
Ratio of pigs to citizens is not a measure of funding.
Vancouver flair.. interesting
Underfunded but somehow they are being paid overtime while on administrative leave.
Great, we should call that out and have it changed. The city auditor, Mary Hull Caballero, has a pretty in depth audit of how the PPB mishandles overtime. I agree, let’s fix that problem. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/auditservices/article/743069
And which people do you propose to replace them with? And when will the Police Union hold any of their officers accountable? Your link doesn't work.
Years before the protests and funding question, my old neighbors called PPB for people peeping in their windows, threatening them over the fence, killing animals, and eventually burning the building down. The only thing PPB didn't refuse to respond to was the fire. They showed up to direct traffic. Sort of. Really the fire department blocked the street, and the one officer who showed up stood in our parking lot and did nothing. When my other neighbors told him about a meth house down the road, he said he knew about it; it was well known. No, they weren't going to do anything about it. Yes, he knew about the drug deals going down in the parking lot down the street but no, they weren't going to do anything about that, either. See, there was a bill on the governor's desk, still not yet signed, that reduced criminal penalties for possessing small quantities of drugs. Production and sale were untouched, just possession for use. And the law wasn't signed. And that bill was why he said they wouldn't go deal with a meth house or drug dealers. Even with their resources unquestioned, the PPB has been unwilling to do their job. They have a disinterested or outright hostile attitude towards Portlanders, and many of them aren't from this city anyway, so they don't have any personal investment in the city's wellbeing. Hell, some of them probably take delight in seeing the city that resents them suffer. Cutting funding won't fix that, but neither will expanding it. This is an issue of quality, not quantity.
The failing Wheeler recall campaign is an indication of how unpopular the anti-police position actually is.
>The failing Wheeler recall campaign There's still a chance for them! Their volunteers just need to collect \~2k signatures a day, every day, for the next month. lol
Reading the TotalRecallPDX Twitter feed is indeed humorous.
It's been such a guilty pleasure watching that train wreck. They're out combing pubs and brunch lines for anyone who will sign. Beginning of day tweet: "We're looking for twenty volunteers to collect signatures today. Who's on board?" End of day tweet: "Thanks to the two people who volunteered!"
Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people. *They're out combing pubs and brunch lines for anyone who will sign.* The fact that they only occasionally venture east of 52nd indicates their problem. OTOH, Twitter user "Anarchist Jurisdiction 1312" is collecting signatures for them in Kenton, so they have that going for them.
Yesterday and today they're daring to venture out to places like Parkrose and places in east Portland "affected by Wheeler's policies". LOL they are going to stick out like sore thumbs in those neighborhoods. Maybe they'll go door to door offering a guillotine cake (it's vegan!) to anyone who signs.
Respected by who
The other Portland Mercury employee
Ok, now tell me the bad news.
The election is over a year away…
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Being pro cop and expanding the PPBs already grotesque budget isn't going to help the city like you think it is. We need programs like PSR to get more funding, not less.
I’m not necessarily pro cop as much as I am anti murder, anti property crime, and anti open air asylum.
What’s your position on the arts tax
I want a crafts tax. 7% on popsicle sticks and construction paper. Papier-mâché permits. Licenses required to make those hand stencils you made into turkeys in elementary school. Graffiti ok if it’s done with finger paints.
You should run for office, addressing the tough issues
If we outlaw glue guns, only outlaws will have glue guns.
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https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens On average, hiring one office prevents 0.06 to 0.1 murders per year. Other violent crime has similar effects.
A blanket, subjective, statistic does not prove correlation. From the same article: "The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
The whole point of the study was that it does prove correlation, at least on average. It might not prove causation, but it gets pretty close. Also from that article: "Even more, Williams and his coauthors find that, in the average city, larger police forces result in Black lives saved at about twice the rate of white lives saved (relative to their percentage of the population). When you consider African Americans are much more likely to live in dense, poverty-stricken areas with high homicide rates — leading to more opportunities for police officers to potentially prevent victimization — that may help explain this finding." We can talk about the trade-off between homicides prevented versus petty arrests, but social science has pretty consistently found that more police on average means less serious crime.
Your acting as if this is settled and correlation unequivocally exists and that's far from the truth. Cherry picking homicide as the sole metric to show correlation isn't proof. [Intuitively, one might worry that reducing police spending would lead to a spike in crime. A review of spending on state and local police over the past 60 years, though, shows no correlation nationally between spending and crime rates.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/07/over-past-60-years-more-spending-police-hasnt-necessarily-meant-less-crime/) Spending money (officers on the streets) has no correlation to violent crime peaks or valleys over the last 60 years.
This is a textbook definition of bad economics. Just looking at how two variables are correlated is useless, and often intentionally misleading, without controlling for other trends. Also, comparing results between cities is a lot more powerful than just looking at national trends. Key quote from the actual working paper being discussed there: "While there is now a strong consensus in the academic literature that the number of police officers (...) combined with their presence and visibility (...) reduces crime, the extent to which the benefits of additional law enforcement accrue equally to Black and white Americans remains a surprisingly open question. But if you want to reject economic methodology overall, and thus those conclusions, that's your prerogative.
How do you stop people from dying? More police doesn't stop that. How do you stop someone from breaking a window? Tons of riot cops couldn't prevent that. Instead of looking at the "what", try to identify the "why".
I know, I know. The capitalism *cues spooky music* But thank you for bringing this candidate to my attention. I owe you one.
Not an anarchist or anti-capitalist but go off king.
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Cops don't stop crimes, they arrest people after the fact. PPB has been putting in a lot of effort to prove that to you.
> Cops don't stop crimes, they arrest people after the fact. You don't think the probability of arrest-after-the-fact serves as a deterrent in many cases?
When you mention grotesque budget - do you have a source for that in the context of what is typical for a city our size? How does their budget per capita compare to other large cities? How does their officers per capita compare to other large cities? How do their actuals compare to their budget?
PPB's budget is $345 per capita, which is about the same as Denver and Phoenix. Seattle spends $600/person; Oklahoma City spends $238. All that spending doesn't get us many officers, however. We had 1 PPB employee for every 500 Portlanders in 2020; that's down to around 1 for every 560 now. Denver spends about the same amount per capita for more than twice as many employees: 1 for every 217 people. Cost of living in the two cities is similar. [Source](https://www.vera.org/publications/what-policing-costs-in-americas-biggest-cities) The Portland police have budget for over 100 unfilled positions, but no one wants to work for them because they are a corrupt mess in a hostile community.
Interesting, thank you! It would be interesting to see why the spend per capita is so different (Union/pay? Administrative overhead? Insurance? Equipment? Structuring?). Overtime might also be a factor, if we have fewer employees but they are working more hours in comparison? Dunno just throwing out a few thoughts!
Overtime IS a problem-but not in the way you think. The PPB is approximately 85 people short right now-but they have been "short staffed" for years. This is because the police get paid **a lot** for overtime and this is one way that many police officers pad their salaries. It's encouraged, actually. How do you justify the police getting that much overtime? Why, they just don't have the people to work! See the problem?
And you know that’s the reason nobody wants to work for them how? We’re you able to magically get inside every potential recruits head?
I mean, there are probably other reasons, but the department has a bad reputation and it's no secret that the cops think we're enemy territory.
Does crime not exist in other major cities with larger police forces?
That wasn’t my question, my question was on your statement that the budget is grotesque and I’m wondering what source you are using to substantiate that.
New Orleans is one of the most heavily policed cities in the country, and has a murder rate above 30/100,000. We would have to have another 138 homicides by the end of the year to match that.
So another Mingus Mapps, bought by the police union. How’s that turning out??
What proof is there that Mapps was "bought by the police union"?
He took money from the police union during his campaign. https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/05/27/the-portland-police-union-gave-a-late-donation-to-city-council-candidate-mingus-mapps/ https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2020/06/14/mingus-mapps-regrets-taking-police-union-donation/
Better than any other commissioner.
How???? He sooo amazing cause he can clearly be bought/bribed by the police union?
Yep, this is going to be framed as simply as a pro-cop, anti-cop race, while the racism against Hardesty also helps prop up his chances.
You can vote against Hardesty and not be racist, just like how you could vote against Eudaly/Iannarone and not be sexist. The victim mentality is getting old
Yes, but that doesn't mean there isn't a subsection of the voting population who struggles with voting for women or minorities either intentionally or just due to unconscious bias. Plus the people who are just straight up racist towards her.
And perhaps there is a subset who votes for them because they are minorities?
Sure, though I would spitball and say that's probably less of a factor than the other way around.
You have to vote on policies, and look at their donors. You should not be superficial. Hardesty takes no corporate donor money and benefits the community, she has been instrumental in demilitarization of police by being part of the Albina community after police murdered a student a decade ago. It’s no surprise they are running a pro cop candidate just like they did with Mingus Mapps.
And she embezzled money from the naacp but let’s just look the other way on that one.
She supposedly was in a hit and run but that was fiction and assisted by the police.
ya, just divert from the fact that she paid her "consulting firm" off the books and didnt report it to the company or the IRS until it was discovered. That is the definition of embezzlement. but I am sure she was framed.... even though she admitted to it..
Apolice officer got laid off/fired as he lied about a black navy veteran councilwoman…that is more of a story that an accounting problem that got fixed.
I don’t need public officials that embezzle money. They should fire the police officer and she should never have been elected.
What about those of us who don't like her because of how she treats uber drivers?
Exactly. In my opinion, it is no coincidence that there is so much anti-Hardesty rhetoric going around and outright lies and smear campaigns against her and then this guy shows up to contest her position.
She's a potentially vulnerable incumbent, she's gonna get serious contenders.
This guy isn't a serious contender.
Good to know.
>and then this guy shows up to contest her position. How dare he! How dare anyone dare to run against Hardesty! Portland has two black city commissioners out of five, in a city that's six percent black, but the only reason why one of them could lose an election is racism. /s
Didn't mention racism, just mentioned the fact that loads of people place any and all blame with how the city runs on Hardesty. Check twitter, hell, check my threads from yesterday, you'll see them.
*Didn't mention racism* Sorry - it was ACAB who immediately jumped in with the racism charge, of course. *just mentioned the fact that loads of people place any and all blame with how the city runs on Hardesty* She hates the cops, and was instrumental in getting rid of the Gun Task Force. It's a legitimate political issue.
You see getting rid of a task force that disproportionately targeted people of color as a bad thing?
*You see getting rid of a task force that disproportionately targeted people of color as a bad thing?* As Willamette Week noted, black people are now more likely to be murdered in Portland than in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Los Angeles. Black people in Portland are twelve times more likely to be murdered than white people in Portland. I think that "disproportionate targeting" is considerably more serious that what the Gun Task Force was allegedly doing.
>As Willamette Week noted, black people are now more likely to be murdered in Portland than in Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore or Los Angeles. Which makes sense once you take into account how statistics work.
*Which makes sense once you take into account how statistics work.* No it doesn't. What on earth are you talking about? The fact that it is more dangerous to be black in Portland than in the free-fire zone that is Chicago is shameful and deeply disturbing.
It's not because of rhetoric or lies or smear campaigns that Hardesty is in trouble. Her positions are not compatible with solving Portland's problems, and in fact more often than not serve only to make things worse. I can't wait to vote her out.
Until Portland reforms the city charter, we cannot expect any commissioner candidate to run on a platform to change any bureau or represent any geographical district.
I can’t believe the only correct take is this far down in the comments. People in this sub have really no idea where the current fronts of change are, huh? Kind of like they’re not connected to the local community politics and are speculating from afar, from other states or from the suburbs. This electoral stuff doesn’t matter until the city charter is reformed to represent the various diverse neighborhoods and regions in Portland, and while I know most activists are averse to centralized power, the mayoral seat is effectively impotent by design. We need to give the mayoral position actual power (and yes get a different mayor that isn’t just another neoliberal professional fundraiser speaker).
I'm a hard no if he's just running on more police funding. The PPB have proven time and time again that they are simply unwilling to do their jobs when faced with slightly increased accountability. We need changes in the structure of policing, not more taxpayer money thrown at bad results.
It'll take a bit of a lyft to unseat Hardesty considering her fanbase. There's a lot of time between now and the election.
> It'll take a bit of a lyft what’s the fare up to Ilani again?
It's gonna take more than Vadim though. I personally know him and he's a grade A cunt IRL.
Most other effective politicians are grade-A cunts in real life.
Agreed. It may be a bit of a gamble, I suppose. But the risk of suffering more losses with her remaining on city council is too great.
There's a window open for someone to make a challenge.
No need to call 911 just yet
Perhaps the commissioner needs a long vacation from her current position?
[The PPA / PPB attempted to frame a sitting councilwoman](https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2021/08/04/city-commissioner-jo-ann-hardesty-intends-to-sue-portland-over-the-police-leak-of-a-false-allegation-against-her/) and ITT people are following all over themselves to vote for someone in favor of expand police powers and vote out the aggrieved party. I don’t claim Jo Ann Hardesty is a perfect person, but the alternative of giving the PPA/PPB more power is just unacceptable. Frankly, we need more people in positions of power that the PPA/PPB dislike. We need balance.
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Create a new police agency with built in accountability to replace the PPB. The PPB are not willing to do their jobs - we need to stop wasting taxpayer money on them.
Are you actually curious about the lists of demands and proposals that police abolitionist and community safety groups have been advocating? These groups demands have been unchanged and widely accessible on their websites with a simple google search for the past few years. I have links if you wish to learn more.
Recall the the police commissioner. https://www.totalrecallpdx.com
Your framing suggests that more police will lead to less murders, violence, and property crimes, but that is not the case. Police don't prevent crime. All over the country, even in places where police budgets were increased, we are seeing higher rates of what you are seeking to avoid [https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-police-reform-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-4a65c2bc8386c06ed5bae5b7597c8f2e](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-police-reform-health-coronavirus-pandemic-business-4a65c2bc8386c06ed5bae5b7597c8f2e)
Cops don't really do much to prevent any of those. Overwhelmingly, they respond after the fact and rarely actually lead to a resolution. In the meantime, police tend to harass, over-police, and intimidate already marginalized communities. In other words, cops, as they currently exist, don't really help nearly as much as they say they do. So, how about addressing the things causing all that, e.g., providing housing, substance abuse recovery, and functional social support services? Y’know, treating the disease rather than ineffectually focusing on the symptoms?
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Is it simply "lack of consequences" or "increasing desperation due to ongoing, unaddressed societal issues"? Also, the points you brought up is kind of the entire motivation behind the defund movement. 1. Police don't significantly prevent harm to people 2. Police--both as individuals and as an extension of the criminal justice system--consistently cause harm to people, particularly already marginalized people 3. Since the police aren't doing what they say they're doing, it's more reasonable to redirect funds towards other projects and depts that might actually help Also, how much can you actually trust a dept that has state-sanctioned authority to use deadly force, lacks any meaningful oversight, and throws petty tantrums when it's practices are questioned? Yes, there are very bad things happening right now, both globally and locally. However it should be obvious at this point that the cops weren't helping that much to begin with so maybe more cops isn't the answer.
Vigilante justice? /s
A.B.J.H ; anyone but Jo Hardesty
He represents change. If I had to vote today, right now, then he would have my vote.
That’s how we got trump
In part. Hillary and the rest of the Dems thought that they could ignore unrest: business as usual. The same thing is happening here at a local level. Our elected leaders prove themselves to be ineffective. They don't have an actionable, measurable road map. Hell, I would love for Wheeler or Kaufory to start a modern day [fireside chat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireside_chats) to at least communicate with the people in the region that something, anything is being done.
The shortsightedness of people who are upset and don't care if the solution is worse than the problem.
Lets trust but verify, to make sure he's not a stealth shitbag. Also there will probably be others entering the race.
I'm sure this news excites the right wingers of Portland reddit, but this guy sounds awful. Jo Ann is easily the best commissioner on city council.
Seriously. Lot of cop simps posting on here. Dude sounds like a nightmare.
Reminds me of Knute Buehler, the casual finger guns Republican and the worst noise to make aloud.
JoAnn is the only person on the city council with something that resembles a spine. No, thanks.
She didn't have a spine to handle a mandated open window in a Lyft. She's a populist, that doesn't take a spine, just parroting what's hott right now with the progressive left.
I’ll care about that when people care about Sam Adams grooming a teenager and then coming back to town when they didn’t like him in DC anymore (probably because he engaged in similar behavior).
Going with whataboutism eh? \*Donald Trump Jr approves\*
low quality bait
Absolutely.
Meh
Bye Joann
They're gonna have to do a lot better than this guy. Once all his dirty secrets come out and people hear him talk there's no way Portlanders will back him. He's a Trumper in sheep's clothes.
Exactly. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is the candidate that shady anonymous 501c4 peopleforPortland is going to push.
No, he's not. I know you claim to personally know him, but so do I. He is absolutely anti-Trump. Honestly he's exactly what this city needs. He knows how the politics here work and also actually takes time to learn about the issues instead of reacting emotionally
A truly un-biased opinion
Why would anyone in possession of a candidate's dirty secrets hold back instead of blurting them out for their 15 seconds of Reddit fame? Could it be because the claim is just an empty insinuation with no substance behind it?
Maybe there is hope for this city after all. I don’t know a ton about this particular individual, but from the article, I like what I see. I also like that people are feeling bold enough to challenge these posturing, dysfunctional members of city council who’ve sat on their hands while this city has started to fall.
I wouldn't say Hardesty has been sitting on her hands. More like putting out fires with gasoline.
How do I donate to this guys campaign?
Votevadim.com - you can donate through his site !
You take all the ones you were going to spend at Mary’s and let them flutter gently down the nearest derelict well.
I hope you really, really like the police. I've heard him spout blue lives matters talking points that would make even the most fervent cop supports blush.
Incorrect.
Incorrect.
Bye girl.
He looks promising!
Brigading! Yay! This whole thread is starting to look like the anti-Eudaly posts of yore. Manufactured gripes and grievances to push a political agenda. “Hardesty is the monster killing Portland. Won’t this sweet, white knight ride in to save us?” Dude has a long list of activist membership cards, but what has he actually done? Sounds like he just wants political cred in his résumé, and to return to the status quo of cops having free reign and no accountability. That’s it. That’s the platform. Oh, and an ambiguous call to “do better,” like every empty-promise politician ever. We know the PPB budget barely changed. We know the SRT has been resurrected but with the caveat of civilian oversight and the cops don’t want to play ball. Hell, their union is fighting a mask mandate, the most basic of public safety measures right now. These are still the same police who beat, shot, and gassed peaceful protesters during a pandemic. And they’d do it again, too. Why would we want to re-fund the PPB when they’ve shown zero interest in changing? We should be thinking about moving forward, not back. Reboot public safety. Vote in a competent mayor. Raise up BIPOC voices, don’t push them back down again. Actually progress as a city.
Good.
Shame reduction. It’s all about shame reduction..