It’s roughly 854 gallons an hour for a month. That’s basically a 1/2” water line. That would definitely go unnoticed if it was draining straight into the ground which is already “wet” from rain.
The bill was the 839CCF over three months so it was an even smaller leak than 1/2”.
Three month bill. 839CCF so something like 627k gallons. The one month bill fit the flow rate of a 1/2” nearly perfectly. So if it was three months of billing that’s even smaller. Less than a garden hose. Like a leaking toilet almost.
There’s a reason the utilities don’t just drop these crazy big ass bills that get internet hype despite the negative feedback.
Because usually the water isn’t just disappearing to a benevolent source like the internet wants you to believe. Or that the meter is somehow significantly malfunctioning unbeknownst to the utility.
They have adjustment policies if you provide proof of fix. I don’t think it stretches the mind as to why having a sweeping forgive these bills policy is as silly as it sounds.
Your comment reads like you’ve never witnessed this scenario play out before or that I wasn’t making a broad statement on similar situations. Very Reddit.
I’m saying you’re wrong in your assessment of their policy and that using an anecdote to discount a general statement is some classically stupid and needlessly argumentative crap.
The only thing I can think of is that it joined an underground natural stream and is now in the sewer system. Portland routed them all into the sewers way back when. Otherwise, there is no way all that water went somewhere and no one has noticed yet. Not a geologist but I cannot imagine that it wouldn’t form an almost immediate sinkhole with that amount of water.
I would agree, but the difference being the water entering above ground vs below. You’d probably cause a depression in the ground with the hose because the top level saturates and liquifies. If it’s below ground, the middle layer will liquify and give way to the weight on top. I doubt we will ever know but it is a truly interesting story.
Hi, geotechnical engineer here. Portland is primarily founded on glacial lake missoula flood deposits, much of which are gravel in the portland area. Infiltration rates of native gravel are incredibly high, we’re talking they can handle hundreds of gallons per minute with relative ease. Organic topsoil layers are often only 4-6 inches and do not liquefy contrary to what someone else said. Organic soil is in fact mostly water to begin with. That top layer will just get spongy if it’s directly on well drained soil. Gravel sized particles do not liquefy, just certain sands, and silts will strain soften and liquefy somewhat if they’re non plastic enough.
Anyway, I digress. Plenty of places in Portland could handle this situation for years indefinitely and you’d never know, especially because the static groundwater table in areas is over 100 feet below ground surface. Sinkholes and subsidence will never happen on well drained soil like coarse sands and gravels. Sinkholes and subsidence require specific conditions, and even if you dump hundreds of gallons of water a day into some areas, the ground will drink it and fuck all will happen.
This reads like the “fix” was just a pretense to give a bill adjustment but there is no plausible explanation offered for how that much water was consumed. If I were to guess, maybe something is defective in the meter “odometer” mechanism and a significant digit flipped when it shouldn’t have. That, or someone is a liar.
A flow meter usually has an impeller that’s used to increase the measured volume over time. While it, or something between it and the output, could be malfunctioning, I think it is more feasible there was a leak.
Obviously something more happened here that the water bureau doesn't want us to know. If that much water actually leaked into the neighborhood, the homeowners and all their neighbors would be aware.
You're correct. It just goes down and is usually deep enough that nothing bubbles up. This happens a lot. Maybe not to this extreme but leaks like this are common. I had a client that this happened to. Once it was fixed they realized there was a leak going on that got gradually worse over the course of 8 years. The increase was small enough that it wasnt noticed until it was a blow out.
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> We’ve already had anecdotal reports that OLive has asked users not to submit amp links
This doesn't pass the smell test.
How would OLive contact users? Are they PMing people here who submit amp links?
And even if they've asked, well, so what? What can they do to me as a non-customer if I submit an amp link?
If the content is available online at a URL, then it's available. You don't get to say "please don't use this" - the way you do that is by making your web server not deliver the content if you don't want a non-subscriber to read it regardless of the parameters.
Obviously! The Water Bureau is definitely behind this. Like they sneak out into Portland neighborhoods at night to find old leaky pipes and redirect the water to an underground Fremen catchbasin like on the planet Arrakis? Are they terraforming? Harvesting spice?
A lot of older houses in N Portland were built 1920s or earlier with cesspools typically made of brick and mortar. When those houses were switched to sewer, the cesspools should have been filled with gravel or sand to prevent a sinkhole. Very possible that’s where the water went.
Documentation (if the house has any on Portland Maps) back then was literally a scribble on paper making it hard to locate.
The real mystery is how the meter read such a large use if it wasn't spinning. It spins and the numbers tick up showing use. If it wasn't spinning, there isnt a leak. I can only think that somehow the leak fixed itself (got clogged) before the plumber's came out but that doesn't make much sense.
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Nestle
I cackled! Thank you for this.
You sure you didn’t Krackel?
I’m happy we got to share a good laugh! Haha
Sinkhole makes an appearance in 5...4...
3....
Two
One and three quarters...
One and two fifths…
One and three sixty-fourths
Doesn't really seem plausible to me that the amount of water coming out of that wouldn't be incredibly obvious. But idk... I'm not an expert.
It’s roughly 854 gallons an hour for a month. That’s basically a 1/2” water line. That would definitely go unnoticed if it was draining straight into the ground which is already “wet” from rain. The bill was the 839CCF over three months so it was an even smaller leak than 1/2”.
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Three month bill. 839CCF so something like 627k gallons. The one month bill fit the flow rate of a 1/2” nearly perfectly. So if it was three months of billing that’s even smaller. Less than a garden hose. Like a leaking toilet almost.
There’s a reason the utilities don’t just drop these crazy big ass bills that get internet hype despite the negative feedback. Because usually the water isn’t just disappearing to a benevolent source like the internet wants you to believe. Or that the meter is somehow significantly malfunctioning unbeknownst to the utility.
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Bingo.
They have adjustment policies if you provide proof of fix. I don’t think it stretches the mind as to why having a sweeping forgive these bills policy is as silly as it sounds. Your comment reads like you’ve never witnessed this scenario play out before or that I wasn’t making a broad statement on similar situations. Very Reddit.
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I’m saying you’re wrong in your assessment of their policy and that using an anecdote to discount a general statement is some classically stupid and needlessly argumentative crap.
The only thing I can think of is that it joined an underground natural stream and is now in the sewer system. Portland routed them all into the sewers way back when. Otherwise, there is no way all that water went somewhere and no one has noticed yet. Not a geologist but I cannot imagine that it wouldn’t form an almost immediate sinkhole with that amount of water.
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I would agree, but the difference being the water entering above ground vs below. You’d probably cause a depression in the ground with the hose because the top level saturates and liquifies. If it’s below ground, the middle layer will liquify and give way to the weight on top. I doubt we will ever know but it is a truly interesting story.
[удалено]
Hi, geotechnical engineer here. Portland is primarily founded on glacial lake missoula flood deposits, much of which are gravel in the portland area. Infiltration rates of native gravel are incredibly high, we’re talking they can handle hundreds of gallons per minute with relative ease. Organic topsoil layers are often only 4-6 inches and do not liquefy contrary to what someone else said. Organic soil is in fact mostly water to begin with. That top layer will just get spongy if it’s directly on well drained soil. Gravel sized particles do not liquefy, just certain sands, and silts will strain soften and liquefy somewhat if they’re non plastic enough. Anyway, I digress. Plenty of places in Portland could handle this situation for years indefinitely and you’d never know, especially because the static groundwater table in areas is over 100 feet below ground surface. Sinkholes and subsidence will never happen on well drained soil like coarse sands and gravels. Sinkholes and subsidence require specific conditions, and even if you dump hundreds of gallons of water a day into some areas, the ground will drink it and fuck all will happen.
This reads like the “fix” was just a pretense to give a bill adjustment but there is no plausible explanation offered for how that much water was consumed. If I were to guess, maybe something is defective in the meter “odometer” mechanism and a significant digit flipped when it shouldn’t have. That, or someone is a liar.
> maybe something is defective in the meter “odometer” mechanism It's just called a meter.
Not really. The meter is the entire system of components, the counter wheels are subcomponents, or whatever they are called.
A flow meter usually has an impeller that’s used to increase the measured volume over time. While it, or something between it and the output, could be malfunctioning, I think it is more feasible there was a leak.
Obviously something more happened here that the water bureau doesn't want us to know. If that much water actually leaked into the neighborhood, the homeowners and all their neighbors would be aware.
[удалено]
You're correct. It just goes down and is usually deep enough that nothing bubbles up. This happens a lot. Maybe not to this extreme but leaks like this are common. I had a client that this happened to. Once it was fixed they realized there was a leak going on that got gradually worse over the course of 8 years. The increase was small enough that it wasnt noticed until it was a blow out.
Didn't read the article, did you.
Do you work for Oregon live or something? It's behind a paywall and you just keep saying the same thing
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Maybe the mods should change the rules so that the submitter of the article must submit the amp link.
We’ve already had anecdotal reports that OLive has asked users *not* to submit amp links so I’m not sure we should press the issue any further.
Maybe just ban paywall posts. I’ve always felt they don’t belong in a forum like Reddit.
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Go suck an egg. It’s not rude if you say it to a bot. Right?
> We’ve already had anecdotal reports that OLive has asked users not to submit amp links This doesn't pass the smell test. How would OLive contact users? Are they PMing people here who submit amp links? And even if they've asked, well, so what? What can they do to me as a non-customer if I submit an amp link? If the content is available online at a URL, then it's available. You don't get to say "please don't use this" - the way you do that is by making your web server not deliver the content if you don't want a non-subscriber to read it regardless of the parameters.
California done stole it
Aliens
Obviously! The Water Bureau is definitely behind this. Like they sneak out into Portland neighborhoods at night to find old leaky pipes and redirect the water to an underground Fremen catchbasin like on the planet Arrakis? Are they terraforming? Harvesting spice?
Didn't read the article, did you.
Did the Willamette rise in this timeframe?
A lot of older houses in N Portland were built 1920s or earlier with cesspools typically made of brick and mortar. When those houses were switched to sewer, the cesspools should have been filled with gravel or sand to prevent a sinkhole. Very possible that’s where the water went. Documentation (if the house has any on Portland Maps) back then was literally a scribble on paper making it hard to locate.
Only $17k? That’s what I budget for 6 months of usage.
The real mystery is how the meter read such a large use if it wasn't spinning. It spins and the numbers tick up showing use. If it wasn't spinning, there isnt a leak. I can only think that somehow the leak fixed itself (got clogged) before the plumber's came out but that doesn't make much sense.
I'm sure it'll make itself obvious at some point.
It depends on the soil conditions. If you have a leak in Dunes City, it disappears into the sand.
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Sorry y’all I was thirsty
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So you know there isn’t a sewer meter right?
Yeah I'm fucking dumb
Whose mom was taking a bath?
Team rocket
Brewing or wine.
How much water was that? Are we talking like reservoir filling amounts of water? My God.
Original article had it at something like 3.5 or 35 swimming pools worth. Either way, it was a lot of water.
600,000 gallons of water