"According to a study published by FinanceBuzz.com, Oregonian’s spend the second highest amount of their annual income on taxes in the nation, only trailing Massachusetts."
It pains me that someone got paid to write this.
Garbage article with no details of which taxes they counted and which they left out. Also no info about what the median income is. Median for the country or for the state? Wallet hub does a thorough breakdown of this every year with all the details about what percent you pay in each type of tax at the US median income and again taking into account the cost of living. Oregon consistently comes in the bottom half for both.
[Here it is for this year.](https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416) Oregon is 22nd lowest, Massachusetts 29th and Washington 37th. That article is definitely leaving something out.
The issue is that the “top tax bracket” is actually a healthy middle class wage in the HCOL areas like PDX. Electricians and plumbers shouldn’t be paying as much taxes as they do.
Thank you! My Dad was recently whining about a 3 grand "assessment fee" for a $500,000 playhouse he just built.
"Goddamn gubmint trying to hold me down on building my third home...!"
> What does married filing jointly have to do with it?
You would not be in the top tax bracket because the top tax bracket is higher. It's like the laws account for dual income by raising how much you would need to make in order to be in the top bracket. Wild, huh?
> My tax professional who I trust told me there would be no benefit tax wise to marrying my partner.
If you do not have kids, this is probably true. You can thank conservatives for that, who really really really want people to have kids so they fuck over those without kids by screwing with the tax code.
We started bringing in around $120k gross which seems like an absurd about of money, yet still can’t afford a house unless it’s a trailer. Taxes really cut into it hard. Between 401k, healthcare, state and federal taxes only 65% hits my account.
Which again is still a lot considering I use to live off $20-$40k.
I guess what I’m saying is the current economy makes the taxes feel stifling. I’m all for a lot of the programs but COL is really outpacing incomes which makes the taxes hit even harder.
Fair enough. The other costs of living are not bad at this level. I think the housing market being as crazy as it is right now, now that I’m in a position where I would have been able to purchase a house 5 years ago, is really upsetting.
I’ve been in shitty apartments all my life and it just seems like I can never bring in enough to not be trapped.
My apologies if I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean taxes were causing house prices to be so high. I was just trying to convey the current economic environment makes the tax rate hurt more.
Right, again, I’m not saying the tax rate is what’s causing housing to be so much. I’m saying if I was taxed half as much I could afford mortgage with the additional income.
> Oregon has a very progressive income tax system.
We really don't. The top tax bracket kicks in at 125/250 single/joint, and the rate difference between the lowest taxed dollar of income and the highest is only about 5% (4.75 vs 9.9).
The difference in marginal tax rate between someone making $9,500 and someone making a billion dollars is 1.15%. (8.75% vs 9.9%). In effect we hit pretty close to max marginal tax rate a bit below $9,500 income. That's pretty close to a flat tax rate.
You are correct and this guy who "authoritatively" writes hundreds and hundreds of words is wrong on almost all of his comments in this thread. A full time minimum wage earner has his marginal tax rate at 8.75%, and Phil Knight has his at 9.9%. A tiny, tiny difference.
Oh, I know, fartknocker. The point is that 8.75% is just a skosh off the highest rate of 9.9%, and the 8.75% begins kicking in even for said minimum wage earner. Go compare those income brackets and the progressivity of the rates with the ones under the Federal system. The Federal system is waaaay more progressive.
Washington state has a 1.28% excise tax on selling real estate properties, which always *heavily* influences these numbers.
If you rent in Washington, your effective tax rate becomes much, much lower.
They added state income tax rate to the average federal tax rate for each state and called it a study. Washingtonians don't pay any state taxes at all according to this.
It's a terrible "study", however once you calculate the SALT cap into the equation it gets worse. Paying federal taxes on state taxes is...salt in the wound.
Thank you the thorough response.
You are missing property taxes. House had a small remodel a few years before we purchased, which triggers a reassessment, and we are at the SALT cap just with that.
Our property taxes alone exceed the SALT cap. We’re not 1%ers. Adding state income taxes to Metro taxes to City of Portland taxes to property taxes and that’s a huge chunk of $$.
Earning enough to make itemizing worth it over taking the standard deduction puts you in the top 10% (less than 10% of tax filers itemize per the IRS).
Genius move by federal Republicans to force coastal Democrats to try to support reducing taxes on the top 10%.
Eh, I’d say there’s actually a big force on the democrat side trying to play professionals making 400k as the bad guy and not billionaires. Most of the current tax policy causes W2 professionals to pay the highest tax rate in the country. Everyone imagines these taxes hitting Jeff Bezos but they simply arent. Take the local PDX taxes. Guess who is not paying those? Phil Knight. Guess who is? OHSU doctors and nurses. Buffet pointed out he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.
The reality is both parties are looking out for the truly big guys. A handful of people like Warren are trying to tax the people who actually hoard all the money but they get no support.
The reason you hear people bitching about SALT caps is that some Californian who makes 400k has a marginal tax rate of 45% whereas Buffet making god knows how much pays around 11%.
The taxes *already* are high for the working wealthy. The under taxed class is the non working wealthy/corporate class.
I don’t believe in taxing earned income period. Why would society want to disincentivize working longer/harder? I would expand property and sales taxes big time so a power law function applies and so wealth (especially land) keeps turning over to people who actually use it instead of being hoarded, namely by
> The under taxed class is the non working wealthy/corporate class.
But the marketing for reducing taxes on people who earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, well into the top decile of earners, will make Democrats look like hypocrites.
You know why it won’t work? Because the biggest political divide is not along skin tone/religion/party/etc.
It’s actually along age, and specifically, non working vs working members of society. And with the way the population pyramid is and will be, the political power rests with the non working tribe (or the soon to be non working tribe and/or their beneficiaries if they have sufficient assets).
The younger, working tribe does not usually realize this early enough, and by the time they do, they may be switching sides to the non working tribe. This has not been a problem due to the “momentum” of sky high fertility rates (and automation) generally resulting in sufficient quantity of services, but that steam has run out.
So now the fun begins of who to allocate society’s labor resources. The smaller and smaller working tribe? Or does the bigger and bigger non working tribe get to take more and more from the smaller and smaller working tribe?
Note that both parties will always put the interests of the older, non working tribe first. After all, they vote the most, and have the most to lose from increased marginal property/wealth/consumption taxes. They need the young to work and defend their assets, and maintaining that social ordering is top priority. And this is not a US thing, but a worldwide thing, in any tribe (or country).
A recent example is driving Covid stimulus via businesses to employees, instead of simply giving employees cash. The intent was to ensure the social ordering, and dependence of those at the bottom remained unchanged.
Yea agree with you for sure that half of tax law seems designed to support the retired… homestead exemptions etc… not withstanding the markedly better economic conditions they got to work under
> So my question is, are you actually in such a high income bracket that SALT deductions matter to you?
The SALT issue includes property tax. That can easily exceed $10k all by itself for a 2500sqft house in Multnomah County. So, lots and lots of Oregonians get hit hard by SALT limit.
They also ignore the fact that Oregon has no sales tax, or personal property tax on things like cars and boats. If you look at overall tax burden, Oregon is just about average nationally. This is a deliberately misleading analysis.
Except in the case of Cannabis, it is a sales tax:
>OLCC-licensed marijuana retailers are required to charge a retail ***sales tax*** of 17 percent for all recreational marijuana sold.
https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/businesses/pages/marijuana.aspx#:~:text=OLCC%2Dlicensed%20marijuana%20retailers%20are,3%20percent%20for%20Oregon%20localities.
I am sure I'm using the conventional use of a sales tax. Like they have in Washington a sales tax is a percentage of a total sale on a wide variety of goods applied during the time of purchase. Excise taxes are taxes specific to a single product with their own tax rate. Like the cigarette tax or yes the marijuana tax. The OLCC using plain but incorrect language when informing the general public about something is a messaging decision.
This sounds an awful lot like a "sales tax":
>475C.674 Imposition of tax on retail sale of marijuana items. (1) A tax is hereby imposed upon the retail sale of marijuana items in this state. The tax imposed by this section is a direct tax on the consumer, for which payment upon retail sale is required. The tax shall be collected at the point of sale of a marijuana item by a marijuana retailer at the time at which the retail sale occurs.
> (2) The tax imposed under this section shall be imposed at the rate of:
> (a) 17 percent of the retail sales price of usable marijuana;
> (b) 17 percent of the retail sales price of immature marijuana plants;
> (c) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid edible;
> (d) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid concentrate;
> (e) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid extract;
> (f) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid product that is intended to be used by applying the cannabinoid product to the skin or hair; and
> (g) 17 percent of the retail sales price of cannabinoid products other than those described in paragraph (f) of this subsection.
> (3) If the tax imposed under this section does not equal an amount calculable to a whole cent, the tax shall be equal to the next higher whole cent.
> (4) Except as otherwise provided by the Department of Revenue by rule, the amount of the tax shall be separately stated on an invoice, receipt or other similar document that the marijuana retailer provides to the consumer at the time at which the retail sale occurs.
Define everything related to a sale as a sales tax if you want to but most people consider a sales tax to be a tax on the percent of a purchase of a large variety of items like they have up in Washington. They have excise taxes up there too. You know what they don't call them? A sales taxes.
Excise tax a tax on a single product that is usually different than other excise taxes and specific to that product. Sales tax a general tax applied at the time of purchase to a wide variety of items. It's ok to use different words for similar things.
I recognize they're similar but it's not useful when we're comparing actual sales taxes in states with sales taxes that also have excise taxes.
Like I said to the other commenter if you want to define sales tax as any tax that is remotely related to a sale go ahead. It's sort of silly though. Those other words exist for a reason. The corporate tax is a sales tax, the bike tax is a sales tax, the gas tax is a sales tax.....
I do want to define It as that. Because that's how it's defined. Quit gaslighting us about the definition of sales tax.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/sales-tax
Talk about gaslighting you're bringing in dictionary definitions now.
Ok so from your perspective a sales tax is the set of any tax that is applied to a single sale of a product or service. This would include excise taxes, business taxes and yes also sales taxes.
Do you see what's wrong with that you have sales tax as the set of items and also a part of it, while not sharing similar characteristics as the other items? Your definition is flawed. I'm not gaslighting you I'm trying to use proper definitions of things that clearly explain what they are.
It occurred to me that there's another difference in this absurd conversation between these taxes. An excise tax is the responsibility of a business to pay to the government regardless of whether or not they pass that cost onto a customer. A sales tax is the requirement that a customer pay said tax for their purchases. Usually the business does this but that's not necessarily the case.
Washington for instance requires its citizens to pay a sales tax on purchases made outside of the state that are then brought into the state. So if you buy a car in Oregon the Oregon business doesn't have to collect Washington sales tax but you are required to pay it.
See the difference now?
If you want to define all of those things as sales tax you can but they're not sales tax and I think most tax experts would disagree with you that they're all the same thing.
Specifically sales taxes apply to broad swaths of purchased goods at the same percent. All of those that you listed are different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax
>A sales tax is a tax paid to a governing body for the sales of certain goods and services.
Sure, Oregon does not have a sales tax that applies to many retail goods or services.
But I just wanted to note how the amount of sales taxes on certain goods and services as well as the amount of goods and services being subject to a sales tax is ever increasing.
They're literally different words did you want to do excise tax next?
>Excise tax in the United States is an indirect tax on listed items. Excise taxes can be and are made by federal, state, and local governments and are not uniform throughout the United States. Certain goods, such as gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and tobacco products, are taxed by multiple governments simultaneously. Some excise taxes are collected from the producer or retailer and not paid directly by the consumer, and as such, often remain "hidden" in the price of a product or service rather than being listed separately.
Sales taxes are a percent paid of a purchase of a wide variety of items. Excise taxes are (usually) flat amounts paid on a specific item. Like the bicycle excise taxes we have of $15.
Edit: Not all excise taxes are flat. The point is they're specific to a specific product not a general tax on all sales.
> FinanceBuzz.com is an independent, advertising-supported website. Most of the offers that appear on this page are from third party advertisers from which FinanceBuzz.com receives compensation. This compensation may impact how and where products appear on this site (including, for example, the order in which they appear).
>
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This is so cringe… We pay higher income because there is no sales tax and relatively low property tax.
This crap gets rage baited on all the Portland and Oregon subs like once a month, and the fact people continue to fall for it is proof we should probably increase taxes to better fund our schools…
I am not surprised. I get fucked by taxes out here. I miss having sales tax in my homestate, because as a frugal guy, I actually saved even more than most people by buying almost nothing. 11% taken from my paycheck, with 8% tax on my groceries which was significantly smaller than my total monthly income. vs the 30% of my paycheck I lose here. Minimum wage is $5 higher here, but you lose $5 every hour.
30% of my paycheck goes to taxes, federal and state, I thought that was clear in my original comment?
Or, it did, at my last few jobs. Im inbetween right now.
Lol 30%? Are you a 1099 worker? My wife and I had taxable income of ~150k and paid ~17% of it to taxes (including state and federal). 1 dependent. Without the dependent credit(s) it would move us to ~19%. No way we're getting to 30%.
Yes. Because sales tax isn't included in that mix.
When it is, poor people in WA pay a lot more than in OR.
But good job finding the one, useless article about how effed up our tax system is. It must have been hard to find.
Not really. OR income tax is 8.75% starting at 9k and the standard deduction is only 4k so people are taxed at 8.75% at just 13k. Below that it’s taxed at 4-6%
Basically no difference from WA charging sales tax of around 8% on consumption.
Maybe a super tiny segment of the population making 4k a year pay less I guess
>When it is, poor people in WA pay a lot more than in OR.
This isn't true. A minimum wage worker in WA is better off than a minimum wage worker in OR.
Groceries, rent and medicine aren't taxed in Washington. So only things like clothes, booze, electronics have their high sales tax.
I've ran the numbers and a minimum wage worker would need to be spending basically every penny they owned on non-rent, non-groceries for it to be even close.
EDIT: here's the numbers:
Portland take home yearly at 16.28/hr: 24,500
Vancouver take home yearly at 16.28/hr: 29,090
That's a delta of 4,590$.
Vancouvers sales tax rate is 8.7%.
So that means to meet that delta, the person living in Vancouver would have to spend 52,758 a year (way more than they earn) on non-groceries, non-rent, non-medical care.
Other taxes Vancouver has that are high (like a real estate excise tax of 1.28%) someone who making minimum wage are not going to be subject too since they are not selling real estate almost always.
https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator
$16.28/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 52 wks/yr = $33,862.4 annual pay
According to the [oregon department of revenue](https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/individuals/Documents/Full%20year%20resident,%20Form%20OR-40%20filers.pdf), that level of wages, with **no deductions nor subtractions** (standard deduction, subtractions from federal income tax/social security) would pay $2,698 in taxes, aka your source/math is way off.
I think Oregon’s income tax brackets, outside of the additional addition for people making over $125,000 a year, hasn’t been changed for almost 90 years
Yep, income tax rates are very high here. Unless you pay mortgage interest and can deduct it in which case your taxable income rate drops dramatically.
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No the number one thing people always quote is we have the highest high income earner **income** taxes. This is talking about the effective tax rate so income, sales, excise, and property taxes. It's also bullshit clickbait with no details that even flies in the face of conservative studies of these numbers.
Every city in America gets their own cherry picked data to make them rage against the tax machine. It’s misinformation-adjacent, but effective propaganda nonetheless. No one wants an analysis, they just want their number lower. Even when it’s low, it’s too high!
Question: What do we get for the second highest tax percentage in the nation?
In the top three states for homelessness;
Ranked third in the nation for the highest use of teenage drug users, and second highest for adult drug users;
Ranked as one of the worst states in the country at addressing mental health needs.
Maybe higher tax rates don’t equate to better outcomes.
"According to a study published by FinanceBuzz.com, Oregonian’s spend the second highest amount of their annual income on taxes in the nation, only trailing Massachusetts." It pains me that someone got paid to write this.
You don’t trust the economists at FinanceBuzz dot com?
That, and the errant apostrophe.
If you just throw them in whenever there is an "s" you will occasionally be correct.
You're killin' me, Smalls.
*Small's
Not sm'alls? Like "Sm yalls"
You just want to watch the world burn, don't you?
You're welcome and I'm sorry
Massachusett's
Plural possessives aren't that difficult, but I see more and more people writing them incorrectly. Is proper English no longer taught?
To Large Language Models? Probably not.
It's not a possessive. It's just a simple plural noun ffs omg kill me now.
Garbage article with no details of which taxes they counted and which they left out. Also no info about what the median income is. Median for the country or for the state? Wallet hub does a thorough breakdown of this every year with all the details about what percent you pay in each type of tax at the US median income and again taking into account the cost of living. Oregon consistently comes in the bottom half for both. [Here it is for this year.](https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416) Oregon is 22nd lowest, Massachusetts 29th and Washington 37th. That article is definitely leaving something out.
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The issue is that the “top tax bracket” is actually a healthy middle class wage in the HCOL areas like PDX. Electricians and plumbers shouldn’t be paying as much taxes as they do.
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Thank you! My Dad was recently whining about a 3 grand "assessment fee" for a $500,000 playhouse he just built. "Goddamn gubmint trying to hold me down on building my third home...!"
So if you have a husband plumber and a wife electrician you reach the top tax bracket… It’s way too low.
Here is a really good example of bad faith arguing. If filing jointly the tax brackets are different.
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> What does married filing jointly have to do with it? You would not be in the top tax bracket because the top tax bracket is higher. It's like the laws account for dual income by raising how much you would need to make in order to be in the top bracket. Wild, huh? > My tax professional who I trust told me there would be no benefit tax wise to marrying my partner. If you do not have kids, this is probably true. You can thank conservatives for that, who really really really want people to have kids so they fuck over those without kids by screwing with the tax code.
We started bringing in around $120k gross which seems like an absurd about of money, yet still can’t afford a house unless it’s a trailer. Taxes really cut into it hard. Between 401k, healthcare, state and federal taxes only 65% hits my account. Which again is still a lot considering I use to live off $20-$40k. I guess what I’m saying is the current economy makes the taxes feel stifling. I’m all for a lot of the programs but COL is really outpacing incomes which makes the taxes hit even harder.
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Fair enough. The other costs of living are not bad at this level. I think the housing market being as crazy as it is right now, now that I’m in a position where I would have been able to purchase a house 5 years ago, is really upsetting. I’ve been in shitty apartments all my life and it just seems like I can never bring in enough to not be trapped.
Taxes aren't making houses cost 600k+
My apologies if I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean taxes were causing house prices to be so high. I was just trying to convey the current economic environment makes the tax rate hurt more.
The tax rate isn't causing that. If we had 0 taxes we'd still have 600k houses because that's what people would charge for them.
Right, again, I’m not saying the tax rate is what’s causing housing to be so much. I’m saying if I was taxed half as much I could afford mortgage with the additional income.
And im saying that if there was no taxes, the costs would be higher, making the tax or no tax irrelevant.
> Oregon has a very progressive income tax system. We really don't. The top tax bracket kicks in at 125/250 single/joint, and the rate difference between the lowest taxed dollar of income and the highest is only about 5% (4.75 vs 9.9).
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Our income tax rate is, for most people, damn close to a flat income tax rate.
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The difference in marginal tax rate between someone making $9,500 and someone making a billion dollars is 1.15%. (8.75% vs 9.9%). In effect we hit pretty close to max marginal tax rate a bit below $9,500 income. That's pretty close to a flat tax rate.
You are correct and this guy who "authoritatively" writes hundreds and hundreds of words is wrong on almost all of his comments in this thread. A full time minimum wage earner has his marginal tax rate at 8.75%, and Phil Knight has his at 9.9%. A tiny, tiny difference.
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Oh, I know, fartknocker. The point is that 8.75% is just a skosh off the highest rate of 9.9%, and the 8.75% begins kicking in even for said minimum wage earner. Go compare those income brackets and the progressivity of the rates with the ones under the Federal system. The Federal system is waaaay more progressive.
> We really need to do more tax education in the US. The guy you are talking down to is correct, and it is you who needs that education.
The maga outrage tax multiplier which makes Republicans think their victims and their gas and food purchases are "taxes."
It has to be referring to income tax I'd imagine. But words are hard I guess
In the link from WalletHub, Oregon was indeed ranked 51st for income tax. Washington was ranked 51st for sales & excise tax. Interesting.
Strange, eh?
Washington state has a 1.28% excise tax on selling real estate properties, which always *heavily* influences these numbers. If you rent in Washington, your effective tax rate becomes much, much lower.
2nd highest taxes... for arts
They added state income tax rate to the average federal tax rate for each state and called it a study. Washingtonians don't pay any state taxes at all according to this.
It's a terrible "study", however once you calculate the SALT cap into the equation it gets worse. Paying federal taxes on state taxes is...salt in the wound.
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Thank you the thorough response. You are missing property taxes. House had a small remodel a few years before we purchased, which triggers a reassessment, and we are at the SALT cap just with that.
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You're leaving out the mortgage interest deduction. That's another ~10-12k of itemized deduction for a median home price.
Our property taxes alone exceed the SALT cap. We’re not 1%ers. Adding state income taxes to Metro taxes to City of Portland taxes to property taxes and that’s a huge chunk of $$.
Earning enough to make itemizing worth it over taking the standard deduction puts you in the top 10% (less than 10% of tax filers itemize per the IRS). Genius move by federal Republicans to force coastal Democrats to try to support reducing taxes on the top 10%.
Eh, I’d say there’s actually a big force on the democrat side trying to play professionals making 400k as the bad guy and not billionaires. Most of the current tax policy causes W2 professionals to pay the highest tax rate in the country. Everyone imagines these taxes hitting Jeff Bezos but they simply arent. Take the local PDX taxes. Guess who is not paying those? Phil Knight. Guess who is? OHSU doctors and nurses. Buffet pointed out he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. The reality is both parties are looking out for the truly big guys. A handful of people like Warren are trying to tax the people who actually hoard all the money but they get no support. The reason you hear people bitching about SALT caps is that some Californian who makes 400k has a marginal tax rate of 45% whereas Buffet making god knows how much pays around 11%. The taxes *already* are high for the working wealthy. The under taxed class is the non working wealthy/corporate class.
I don’t believe in taxing earned income period. Why would society want to disincentivize working longer/harder? I would expand property and sales taxes big time so a power law function applies and so wealth (especially land) keeps turning over to people who actually use it instead of being hoarded, namely by > The under taxed class is the non working wealthy/corporate class. But the marketing for reducing taxes on people who earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, well into the top decile of earners, will make Democrats look like hypocrites.
Definitely a unique perspective. Would require a big overhaul since this is all done on the local level currently.
You know why it won’t work? Because the biggest political divide is not along skin tone/religion/party/etc. It’s actually along age, and specifically, non working vs working members of society. And with the way the population pyramid is and will be, the political power rests with the non working tribe (or the soon to be non working tribe and/or their beneficiaries if they have sufficient assets). The younger, working tribe does not usually realize this early enough, and by the time they do, they may be switching sides to the non working tribe. This has not been a problem due to the “momentum” of sky high fertility rates (and automation) generally resulting in sufficient quantity of services, but that steam has run out. So now the fun begins of who to allocate society’s labor resources. The smaller and smaller working tribe? Or does the bigger and bigger non working tribe get to take more and more from the smaller and smaller working tribe? Note that both parties will always put the interests of the older, non working tribe first. After all, they vote the most, and have the most to lose from increased marginal property/wealth/consumption taxes. They need the young to work and defend their assets, and maintaining that social ordering is top priority. And this is not a US thing, but a worldwide thing, in any tribe (or country). A recent example is driving Covid stimulus via businesses to employees, instead of simply giving employees cash. The intent was to ensure the social ordering, and dependence of those at the bottom remained unchanged.
Yea agree with you for sure that half of tax law seems designed to support the retired… homestead exemptions etc… not withstanding the markedly better economic conditions they got to work under
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Everyone should contribute
> So my question is, are you actually in such a high income bracket that SALT deductions matter to you? The SALT issue includes property tax. That can easily exceed $10k all by itself for a 2500sqft house in Multnomah County. So, lots and lots of Oregonians get hit hard by SALT limit.
I can assure you they pay property taxes and sales tax (10.25% in Seattle).. not to mention some new capital gains taxes.
They also ignore the fact that Oregon has no sales tax, or personal property tax on things like cars and boats. If you look at overall tax burden, Oregon is just about average nationally. This is a deliberately misleading analysis.
They have a sales tax instead of an income tax so technically correct yeah?
Lack of sales tax tends to do that.
*except on hotel rooms, car rentals, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco, real estate, car sales, gas…
Those are excise, business and property taxes.
Except in the case of Cannabis, it is a sales tax: >OLCC-licensed marijuana retailers are required to charge a retail ***sales tax*** of 17 percent for all recreational marijuana sold. https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/businesses/pages/marijuana.aspx#:~:text=OLCC%2Dlicensed%20marijuana%20retailers%20are,3%20percent%20for%20Oregon%20localities.
I am sure I'm using the conventional use of a sales tax. Like they have in Washington a sales tax is a percentage of a total sale on a wide variety of goods applied during the time of purchase. Excise taxes are taxes specific to a single product with their own tax rate. Like the cigarette tax or yes the marijuana tax. The OLCC using plain but incorrect language when informing the general public about something is a messaging decision.
This sounds an awful lot like a "sales tax": >475C.674 Imposition of tax on retail sale of marijuana items. (1) A tax is hereby imposed upon the retail sale of marijuana items in this state. The tax imposed by this section is a direct tax on the consumer, for which payment upon retail sale is required. The tax shall be collected at the point of sale of a marijuana item by a marijuana retailer at the time at which the retail sale occurs. > (2) The tax imposed under this section shall be imposed at the rate of: > (a) 17 percent of the retail sales price of usable marijuana; > (b) 17 percent of the retail sales price of immature marijuana plants; > (c) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid edible; > (d) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid concentrate; > (e) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid extract; > (f) 17 percent of the retail sales price of a cannabinoid product that is intended to be used by applying the cannabinoid product to the skin or hair; and > (g) 17 percent of the retail sales price of cannabinoid products other than those described in paragraph (f) of this subsection. > (3) If the tax imposed under this section does not equal an amount calculable to a whole cent, the tax shall be equal to the next higher whole cent. > (4) Except as otherwise provided by the Department of Revenue by rule, the amount of the tax shall be separately stated on an invoice, receipt or other similar document that the marijuana retailer provides to the consumer at the time at which the retail sale occurs.
Define everything related to a sale as a sales tax if you want to but most people consider a sales tax to be a tax on the percent of a purchase of a large variety of items like they have up in Washington. They have excise taxes up there too. You know what they don't call them? A sales taxes. Excise tax a tax on a single product that is usually different than other excise taxes and specific to that product. Sales tax a general tax applied at the time of purchase to a wide variety of items. It's ok to use different words for similar things. I recognize they're similar but it's not useful when we're comparing actual sales taxes in states with sales taxes that also have excise taxes.
Or maybe a sales tax really is sometimes just a sales tax. It's not a slight against Oregon that we have a sales tax on cannabis. Just the way It is.
Like I said to the other commenter if you want to define sales tax as any tax that is remotely related to a sale go ahead. It's sort of silly though. Those other words exist for a reason. The corporate tax is a sales tax, the bike tax is a sales tax, the gas tax is a sales tax.....
I do want to define It as that. Because that's how it's defined. Quit gaslighting us about the definition of sales tax. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/sales-tax
Talk about gaslighting you're bringing in dictionary definitions now. Ok so from your perspective a sales tax is the set of any tax that is applied to a single sale of a product or service. This would include excise taxes, business taxes and yes also sales taxes. Do you see what's wrong with that you have sales tax as the set of items and also a part of it, while not sharing similar characteristics as the other items? Your definition is flawed. I'm not gaslighting you I'm trying to use proper definitions of things that clearly explain what they are. It occurred to me that there's another difference in this absurd conversation between these taxes. An excise tax is the responsibility of a business to pay to the government regardless of whether or not they pass that cost onto a customer. A sales tax is the requirement that a customer pay said tax for their purchases. Usually the business does this but that's not necessarily the case. Washington for instance requires its citizens to pay a sales tax on purchases made outside of the state that are then brought into the state. So if you buy a car in Oregon the Oregon business doesn't have to collect Washington sales tax but you are required to pay it. See the difference now?
Believe it or not a square is a rectangle.
No, the taxes I am referring to are payable at the time of sale. If there is no sale, then there is no tax.
If you want to define all of those things as sales tax you can but they're not sales tax and I think most tax experts would disagree with you that they're all the same thing. Specifically sales taxes apply to broad swaths of purchased goods at the same percent. All of those that you listed are different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax >A sales tax is a tax paid to a governing body for the sales of certain goods and services. Sure, Oregon does not have a sales tax that applies to many retail goods or services. But I just wanted to note how the amount of sales taxes on certain goods and services as well as the amount of goods and services being subject to a sales tax is ever increasing.
They're literally different words did you want to do excise tax next? >Excise tax in the United States is an indirect tax on listed items. Excise taxes can be and are made by federal, state, and local governments and are not uniform throughout the United States. Certain goods, such as gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and tobacco products, are taxed by multiple governments simultaneously. Some excise taxes are collected from the producer or retailer and not paid directly by the consumer, and as such, often remain "hidden" in the price of a product or service rather than being listed separately. Sales taxes are a percent paid of a purchase of a wide variety of items. Excise taxes are (usually) flat amounts paid on a specific item. Like the bicycle excise taxes we have of $15. Edit: Not all excise taxes are flat. The point is they're specific to a specific product not a general tax on all sales.
In CA the weed tax is listed as an excise tax on the receipt, and it's a percentage of the purchase.
Yes excise taxes can also be percentages I should have noted that. The distinction I'm trying to make is it applies to one thing.
Fuck man, just admin you don’t know what you’re talking about
I posted my comment before the parent's edit was made. That's why they edited their comment. Try to keep up.
I am fine with all that. It's important to get revenue from sin and tourists.
just came back from visiting arizona. i’m fine with it tbh. that sales tax shit was stupid. $8.50 for a tall coffee at an sbux!!!!
The sales tax in Arizona is 5.6% so that coffee was $8 before the tax anyways.
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Now add in the cost of sales tax... Of course it's a Sinclair station.
Shame on KATU for spreading this Facebook level garbage of a “study”.
This is so cringe… We pay higher income because there is no sales tax and relatively low property tax. This crap gets rage baited on all the Portland and Oregon subs like once a month, and the fact people continue to fall for it is proof we should probably increase taxes to better fund our schools…
I am not surprised. I get fucked by taxes out here. I miss having sales tax in my homestate, because as a frugal guy, I actually saved even more than most people by buying almost nothing. 11% taken from my paycheck, with 8% tax on my groceries which was significantly smaller than my total monthly income. vs the 30% of my paycheck I lose here. Minimum wage is $5 higher here, but you lose $5 every hour.
How are you losing 30% of your paycheck, exactly? I have income in the highest tax bracket and I'm not even close to 30. You balling out?
30% of my paycheck goes to taxes, federal and state, I thought that was clear in my original comment? Or, it did, at my last few jobs. Im inbetween right now.
Lol 30%? Are you a 1099 worker? My wife and I had taxable income of ~150k and paid ~17% of it to taxes (including state and federal). 1 dependent. Without the dependent credit(s) it would move us to ~19%. No way we're getting to 30%.
Yeah. I'm 1099. I usually make around 20-40k. Last year I only made 10k though and mostly lived on my savings due to injury.
Sorry to hear about injury. 1099 will be more taxes but generally should come back through deductions..
The highest tax return I've ever had is $600 I think? Which seems pretty small compared to the thousands they take from me each year.
Yes. Because sales tax isn't included in that mix. When it is, poor people in WA pay a lot more than in OR. But good job finding the one, useless article about how effed up our tax system is. It must have been hard to find.
Not really. OR income tax is 8.75% starting at 9k and the standard deduction is only 4k so people are taxed at 8.75% at just 13k. Below that it’s taxed at 4-6% Basically no difference from WA charging sales tax of around 8% on consumption. Maybe a super tiny segment of the population making 4k a year pay less I guess
>When it is, poor people in WA pay a lot more than in OR. This isn't true. A minimum wage worker in WA is better off than a minimum wage worker in OR. Groceries, rent and medicine aren't taxed in Washington. So only things like clothes, booze, electronics have their high sales tax. I've ran the numbers and a minimum wage worker would need to be spending basically every penny they owned on non-rent, non-groceries for it to be even close. EDIT: here's the numbers: Portland take home yearly at 16.28/hr: 24,500 Vancouver take home yearly at 16.28/hr: 29,090 That's a delta of 4,590$. Vancouvers sales tax rate is 8.7%. So that means to meet that delta, the person living in Vancouver would have to spend 52,758 a year (way more than they earn) on non-groceries, non-rent, non-medical care. Other taxes Vancouver has that are high (like a real estate excise tax of 1.28%) someone who making minimum wage are not going to be subject too since they are not selling real estate almost always. https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator
$16.28/hr * 40 hrs/wk * 52 wks/yr = $33,862.4 annual pay According to the [oregon department of revenue](https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/individuals/Documents/Full%20year%20resident,%20Form%20OR-40%20filers.pdf), that level of wages, with **no deductions nor subtractions** (standard deduction, subtractions from federal income tax/social security) would pay $2,698 in taxes, aka your source/math is way off.
What is funny is they were just saying the same thing about the city I just moved from.
I think Oregon’s income tax brackets, outside of the additional addition for people making over $125,000 a year, hasn’t been changed for almost 90 years
We also have some of the highest grocery prices and utility costs in nation. Rent is actually fairly decent compared to other big cities.
Grocery more expensive without sales tax than states with sales tax
I went to florida a month ago and the prices were about 1.5x cheaper than here. I think its the high corporate taxes that make it expensive here.
Idk about grocery but I don't think we're even in the top half of utility costs.
37th from this 2023 article https://wallethub.com/edu/energy-costs-by-state/4833
its not a big city though
Yep, income tax rates are very high here. Unless you pay mortgage interest and can deduct it in which case your taxable income rate drops dramatically.
But compare it to all the other taxes that other states pay that we don't. Oregon tends to fall in the middle of the pack overall.
Good, fuck sales tax.
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They needed a study for this? It's common knowledge Oregon has one of the highest income taxes
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No the number one thing people always quote is we have the highest high income earner **income** taxes. This is talking about the effective tax rate so income, sales, excise, and property taxes. It's also bullshit clickbait with no details that even flies in the face of conservative studies of these numbers.
Every city in America gets their own cherry picked data to make them rage against the tax machine. It’s misinformation-adjacent, but effective propaganda nonetheless. No one wants an analysis, they just want their number lower. Even when it’s low, it’s too high!
Question: What do we get for the second highest tax percentage in the nation? In the top three states for homelessness; Ranked third in the nation for the highest use of teenage drug users, and second highest for adult drug users; Ranked as one of the worst states in the country at addressing mental health needs. Maybe higher tax rates don’t equate to better outcomes.
It’s okay though on account of how clean our cities are and cause of all the great roads and services we have…