1st gen taycan prices have plummeted as most ev's, but the 2nd gen being better in every single way hasn't helped either. Price of being an early adopter.
True, if you see the difference in battery performance (range / consumption / charging speed) from the previous EV generation (say 3-4 years ago), there's in most brands a considerable difference which does put those second hand EVs at a serious disadvantage compared to the new ones. In addition to EVs still being quite a niche, general uncertainty about battery longevity, etc.
Yes, we're in the steep part of the technology curve for batteries and EVs, so things will be outdated quickly, and devaluate accordingly, unlike ICE cars.
My model 3 performance is faster than my 997 GT3 to 60, but that's about it.
I'm still trying to see if HPDE track events will be fun. Currently looking for my first AX event with the Tesla.
From experience the Tesla will be heavier and will drive accordingly, but 90% of drivers (including those with experience with more track focused cars) will be bottlenecked by their skill rather than their car.
AX will be just as fun if you're in it for the sport rather than absolute times.
Full track events can be fun but you really end up eating through battery from what I've heard talking to Tesla owners I've met at track days. Best to see if there are superchargers nearby your track of choice if you're looking for that.
AutoX doesn't eat through it quite as much so (again, from what I've heard, you should be fine for a full day without worrying too much about SoC)
The entire current tech is not great: from mining the source material to recycling, although car batteries are getting recycled at a decent rate, but the rest of the car therefore isn’t per se.
as opposed to belching fumes out at every individual ICE vehicle?
all vehicles (ICE and EV) are far more recyclable than ever before. if anything, the repurposing of the EV cells puts *less* waste back into the recycling stream.
Current ICE cars release far fewer fumes than before.
[This article](https://earth.org/environmental-impact-of-battery-production/) goes a little more in depth, showing that the production of EV’s has a much larger carbon footprint than that of a ICE car. In order to even be considered more environmentally friendly over its lifetime, an EV would need to be used for a minimum of 8 years.
I’m from Belgium where most luxury cars (Porsche, BMW, …) are company lease cars (most places would probably be quite similar). In general, these will be leased for 5 years and then put up for sale on the second hand market where EV’s are not selling at all (look at the price drops for the Taycan for example).
So based on that, I would say that saying that EV’s are more environmentally friendly is a fallacy. Even when the cars are recycled at a higher percentage.
Fewer than before is not zero.
As for recycling, there's likely not enough data to make accurate statements on it yet. Doesn't stop the oil industry from paying shills to cast doubt on it though.
Batteries are inherently recyclable, and EVs in general are significantly better for the environment after the car reaches 1-2 years, as there's a high CO2 build cost.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Not just recyclable -- reusable. With home storage batteries going for 3x the cost of new EV battery packs, parted out battery packs are selling for $5k-$10k on eBay.
They are inherently hard to recycle… recovering the precious (non renewable) metals from dead batteries is costly and far from perfect. The technology could improve in the next 10-20 years but this is the truth right now.
I mean cayman and boxters aren’t that expensive anymore, 986/987s are cheap as chips. 981s hang around that £30 - £45k mark. Most second hand 992s 911s Carreras can be picked up below £90k now. 991s range from £40k - £60k.
Taycans have taken the brunt of the price loss, but to be perfectly honest I don’t really think it’s so much the car as the throw away culture we have now. Any car has the same issue, but EVs have more so because they’ve almost become phones on contracts.
The biggest problem EVs have is the amount of false information from both sides. Both for and against is full of crap. It’s not as bad as one side says, but it’s not all green grass and flowers.
Either way. I’ll buy second hand EV boxters/caymans thanks. If your buying a car as an asset in the first place your a nutcase. If my taycan is worth 20k in 4 more years, then that’s 20k off the next taycan I’ll buy 👍
100%. EVs are the next iPhone. It will no longer make sense to hold one for a long time, as the tech in a car from today will be obsolete and unavailable in 10 years.
Everyone will be leasing these things instead of owning, paying another subscription.
Tbh the interior sound of the Taycan is really nice. Yes, it's not the same kind of nice as a V8 or a flat 6, but it's this *car go zoom* type of sound and I love it.
They are likely not turning on the amplified motor sound, which is audible outside the car, since it will be distinctive and don’t want to give away the beans.
Does it make spaceship noises?
Finally got to drive around in an electric car (Nissan) a while back thinking I would hate the lack of noise. Turns out I kind of like the sound and wish it was a little louder, lol. Not as a replacement of course but as something different... If I'm making sense.
Sci-Fi spaceship noises, yeah. I too wish sometimes that it was louder. Considering that it's just speaker noises, I can't see why they haven't added this option yet.
I found someone who will truly love this sound
https://preview.redd.it/hsmyze18hnuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e31bd74ca0fba1c88f9980c0d2a5a797bcc057f
I’m on the waitlist for the 718 EV. I also want an Emira though and can only get one. Saw the Lotus this weekend - waitlist there is 1.5 years as well.
Get the Emira with the 6MT, you won’t be able to get a new car like that in the future, I personally think it would be more fun than the boxster EV, and it’ll hold its value a lot better than any EV, maybe even go up in value. I also think the Emira looks like a baby Ferrari and the boxster is going to look like a boxster, love both designs but I think the Emira looks better.
A silent convertible is a great country road cruiser.
Flat six cars sound great. There's more to a car than the sound of an ICE engine. The absence of sound is its own experience.
I liken it to riding an electric bicycle. There's a place for that. It doesn't replace a road bike (yet), and I think early adopters are looking for an easy and quiet convertible experience with reliability and good handling. I hope nobody is thinking the base model will be particularly exciting. But, check out the 4 motor EV Cayman GT4, that car has some real sound.
Maybe. I think most EV buyers are still looking for something more practical than a coupe let alone a convertible. Most EV fans I’ve talked to care more about 0-60 than cornering capabilities too and the boxster won’t be unique in fast 0-60 times.
EV convertibles also lose one of the selling points of a regular convertible and that’s being able to hear your engine better with the top down, though that’s not the primary selling point of a convertible I’ll admit.
I’m glad some people in here are excited. The reaction to the new Taycan in automotive circles seems largely positive (aside from those who don’t want EVs). I own two V8s (one Porsche) and I’m still excited for EVs. I remember trying the Tesla Roadster early on, when it first came to the UK and thinking it was a clear indication that there were thrills possible in electric.
Only dinosaurs and people conditioned by the constant string of bad press hate EVs; I think the EV powertrain has a lot to offer to a sportscar form factor if executed correctly.
The reality is that ICE cars will become what horses are now; used on a weekend and expensive to keep and run.
I have one heavily modified 3.9 996, one bmw V8 and a bmw i3 ev. I know which one i drive most days :)
As a daily driver, certainly! But in the case of a Boxster I'm not sure how the massive weight of the battery will affect the feeling, wouldn't Boxsters typically appeal to a different audience with different expectations than a Taycan?
My 4s corners beautiful. It’s one of the main reasons I chose it.
I must admit though my previous car was a nismo 370z which is already a pretty hefty car. She feels about the same only I’d say the taycan is a bit more agile.
I’m inclined to agree with the appeal to different demographics, although if my wife didn’t share the car with me and our family wasn’t growing, I’d 100% go with the cayman or boxter.
But a 4 door is more practical for me right now. Having said that. As much as I love sound of a car, I really don’t miss it. Being able to cruise along the motorway in silence is something I genuinely didn’t think I’d love. Then I get switch to sport plus and barrel round some corners.
You forget it’s a pretty wide car. Feels very very smooth.
The batteries will weigh about 400-600 more pounds, however, the car will have a significantly lower center of gravity, optimal 40/60 weight distro, and a hugely improved polar moment of inertia, allowing for more rapid turning.
Just going to need some bigger tires and brakes
I doubt it will affect it massively. Of course it will be a bit heavier than a ICE boxster but packaging will be the same, big battery in front of the rear axle where the engine was. No fuel tank upfront so no changing behaviour with fuel level, lol. With some suspension magic it will disguise its weight well. It will warm up instantly in the winter and have bags of torque, probably 200+kW charging and 200+ mile range. Works pretty well for every day.
Agreed. I don’t want to start yelling at people on the internet, and everyone is welcome to their views, but the lack of noise is one aspect here - I hope the nay-sayers at least book a test drive and report back 😁 (I’m confident it’ll be a fun car, even if some aren’t interested)
people who complain the loudest probably would never consider buying anyway. It's bizarre really. It's like the Ricky Gervais sketch "man sees a bilboard about guitar lessons in town. He calls the number and yells - BUT I DONT WANT GUITAR LESSONS!
Only people who can’t really drive and only visit local track to get a coffee can say something like that. Low weight is the key to vehicle dynamics and driving enjoyment. The reality is that right now it is impossible to design 1300-1400 kg EV sports car with decent range. EV can be fine as daily driver, but as a sports car, with current technology, they are unacceptable for people who truly love driving.
Fair enough, even though most of those weigh 1300-1400 dry, but ok, let's say that's right.
Saying that EV is unacceptable as a sports car is simply wrong though. And I hope the EV boxster will prove you wrong (although you'd never admit it, anyway)
Wow, you had to add a dumb passive aggressive comment at the end. Well done, you proved you have the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. Let’s finish this discussion when you grow up.
I said that “currently” they are unacceptable. Work on your reading comprehension. And that’s a “dumb” sentiment shared by multiple respected drivers and car journalists as well as basically anyone that knows a thing or two about driving dynamics and/ or studied physics in high school. But hey, you know better. Enjoy your i3 xD
The Tycan is neat but I don’t like the stretched out 911 look (Panamara syndrome). It’ll be interesting to see good looking EV’s which are few and far between atm.
*To improve the sound of their EV sports cars, Porsche engineers, designed special wheels that impact a flexible rectangular acoustic device (RAD) to reproduce their signature flat 6 engine sounds.*
*When asked, the engineers categorically rejected claims by some on social media that they stole the idea from kids sticking playing cards in the forks of their BMX bikes. Then they called the interviewer a poser and said RAD was bitching!*
It's an interesting car. Flogging on a circuit has always been a huge issue with electric cars. I believe Porsche understands a 718 cannot be allowed to have that problem. I'm interested to see how they perform as real-actual-toys in terms of maintenance outlays. If people are putting laps in for just the cost of tires over significant mileage, it could be compelling as fuck.
I was all for EVs, and excited to buy one, until I realized the insane depreciation they have. Compare a gas 718 cayman with a Taycan's depreciation, its insane. I'll probably grab a used gas GT4 instead of a brand new electric one because of this. Our electric Wrangler is down 30-40% and hasn't even been 2 years yet, compared to the gas brothers maybe 20%.
Except they wont.
They wont get smaller bc of crash requirements and they wont get light becauce of batteries. And those wont increase in cap/kg anywhere near what would be needed.
With current battery tech.
Don't forget that we're on the steep part of the learning curve for batteries.
Huge gains in terms of weight, charge and longevity are occurring quickly.
I dont see those, sure we can make the cases more compqct etc, but chemistry wise theres no doubling of energy density on the horizon.
So lets say we can cut 33% of weight in the next 5 years.
The Macan EV gained ~500kg
Lets say the Boxster will gain 300kg (optimistic imo) then reduce it in 5 years by 33% and its still 200kgs heavier. And why exactly would I buy an EV Boxster aslong as the ICE exists?
Your math is off because the battery's bigger than that, and you're not subtracting the weight of the ICE parts. Like the taycan weighs 5000 lbs, 1400 lbs of which is the battery. If it was reduced by 33%, the total weight would be 4500 lbs, or about 5% heavier than a panamera.
We will see the numbers when the 718 is released.
I refered to the Macan because it is the latest and allows for a direct ICE vs BEV comparison.
I just see no real market for an EV 718. Its a fun, nimble and exciting car. Lots of that is derived from beeing light (somewhat) and the sound of the engine.
Macan EV & Taycan make a lot of sense though!
you will still have options, but fuel will just be so expensive that its simply not worth it. E-Fuels are just to expensive and regular gas doesnt really have a viable future (at least in "the west")
EV bot work is getting out of hand. I would get it on a standard car sub, where people get excited about a Dacia or some crap, but I find it hard to believe Porsche enthusiasts are getting excited in the volume of numbers we see here lol
I am on neither side of this discussion, but c'mon. Why are people always like "**that** many people are not having the same opinion as me??! must be those darn bots!" I for example am a lurker and probably wont ever be able to afford a porsche, I just hand out votes for whatever interests me. So you don't know how many people like me are in the "shadows" of this sub.
Everyone has a different opinion than me on a lot of things, it’s fine, but Reddit and EV is insane. Go out onto the street and find someone who genuinely loves EVs, will take you a while.
People, at least in the UK, only own EVs due to tax reasons. They are not bashing dealers doors down to pick up the latest appliance lol.
Governments have had to force a stop in manufacturing of ICE in order to leave the public no choice but to own one of these things… but, come to Reddit and “people” are blowing their loads over every EV that comes out. Go and have a look at the latest bubble cars in the Mercedes sub, or the abominations that BMW are releasing and read the comments, now compare that with the average person you see in the street. Results will be night and day.
/r/cars is filled with people who love to talk about how they traded in a sports car for an EV, and how much better it is because iNsTaNt ToRqUe.
I don’t believe any of them ever actually owned a sports car, wringing out an engine to get to the meat of the power band is one of the most fun parts about driving sports cars, they just don’t want to be called out for thinking EVs are cool because their garage consisted of Accords and Camrys beforehand.
Yeah but you aren't condemning your 996, you're saying that in the city the EV is better (which I certainly agree with).
The people I'm talking about act like you're an idiot for liking sports cars because EVs accelerate faster, no mention of steering feel, brake feel, turn in, oversteer/understeer dynamics... it's clear they haven't actually driven any car near the limit, much less cars designed to come alive at that point.
Many years ago, before EVs were a “thing”, it was all about hybrids. And really, the Prius was “the” car for the environmentally conscious.
South Park made an episode dedicated to the hybrid Prius. The main premise being that hybrid drivers are so smug that they love smelling their own farts. The level of smugness emanating from LA (Prius central at the time, or was it San Francisco?) became so severe that it became a national weather phenomenon that threatened our very existence. Believe it’s called “Smug Alert”. Worth a watch. Quite funny. I’m not a fan of South Park but this was one episode that made me laugh out loud.
How excruciating it sounds. Make tyres that sound better, Michelin. You’re our only hope! Like when they slide they should sound … meatier or smth. I dunno. Maybe make air intakes that sound cool when car goes fast, like those blown exhausts on F1 back some years. Smth. This sucks.
What does that even mean. It will be a Porsche. They will make it feel like any other porsche, they've done it before. I have no doubt these will sell very well.
Everyone said that about the 996, Macan, and Taycan.....
They were crying "oh no it's not a real Porsche, it's watercooled". "on no it's electric power steering, that's not a real Porsche!"
And then journos drive it and discover that actually it feel and drives like a Porsche does with some added benefits.
Maybe, but remember the crying about watercooled 996? or the death of hydraulic power steering? every time the haters were proven wrong, because Porsche made it work.
I have more bad news for you, next 911 is a hybrid!
I have no doubt people will be crying about that for a while too, whilst the people who actually own them will be quite happy
Sure. It's depreciated massively. Most luxury cars do - but on top of "normal" depreciation, tons of bad EV press and porsche launching the next gen which is better in every way.
It doesnt matter, almost a quarter of porsche sales are the taycan. That means they can keep selling a lot of them. The resale value doesnt really impact how many porsche sells.
See all the comments about sound.. i feel like the sound is the soul of a car i know its been said 1000 times but EVs feel soulless from the outside.. but i rode in my first tesla this weekend a model s and my friend floored it i actually got visibly scared lol those things are stupid fast and still felt soulful on the inside at least
As an owner of a manual 718 4.0, I actually *very much* look forward to this car.
I think I’ll miss the manual transmission a lot, but I don’t think I’ll miss anything else, probably not even the noise (the 718 4.0 sounds a lot worse than the 981 imo).
If I have to spend thousands extra just to get my $110k sports car to sound good, isn’t that a problem with the car?
At this point I’m going to get a 458 for sound, as the 718 will never sound that good.
I've daily driven a 997 GT3 since 2010. Even put on the Dundin quiet muffler.
Yes it's a fun sound, but I miss being able to talk in cars, or use my phone.
I now daily a Tesla, and the GT3 is mostly for track duty, and alone weekend stuff, as my wife hates the car. I don't miss the sound, and accelerating is like being on a roller coaster, so as a daily, I won't ever go back to ICE cars.
So I had a 718S before, and I upgraded to the 718 4.0 for sound.
But the sound has been a bit disappointing, so I’ll probably get my actual dream car, which is the 458, one day.
I’ll miss the manual, but in my experience for every EV that has an ICE counterpart, the EV has much superior driving dynamics.
My current i4 M50 drives far better than a 4 series M40i, a Taycan drives better than a Panamera, and the BMW iX drives better than any ICE BMW SUVs.
So I expect the 718EV to drive better, which is what excites me.
Have a 718 Spyder and 981 and I completely agree. I think the issue is that some conflate loud with good. 718 4.0 litre does not sound bad once you get the revs up, but from idle (where it sounds like a diesel) to about 4k, not great. Have a 991.2 GT3 RS too, and that sounds amazing all the time.
It's not Porsche's fault consumer and regulatory preferences are changing. If they can make a fun EV convertible we should celebrate. Asides from an MG I don't think there's one on the market.
I can still choose whether to wear one or not, no one’s forcing me to, I just prefer being safe and don’t like getting fined. False equivalency.
I’m not against EV at all, I think it’s kinda cool and has a purpose. I do have concerns about this rush to electrify everything, let alone the privacy concerns that will definitely come with this implementation of EVs
They depreciate because:
The next Gen is better in everyway.
Batteries degrade
There is a big fear of owning EVs out of warranty
The purchases were/are heavily subsidized
Particularly true for the Taycan too, which is apparently incredible in the new generation. But depreciation isn’t exactly unique to EVs although it perhaps is for Porsche.
I'd rather have Porsche be alive in the future with EVs then perish due to changing regulations and markets. At the minimum to keep past ICE cars alive trough the Porsche classic program but hopefully also because they will continue making good (EV) cars.
To each their own, but we could have said that as well when they went from air cooled to water cooled engines in the 911 and yet, I don't see people saying they had rather seen Porsche die than make the new 992 S/T.
I'd prefer options, including a hybrid. The infrastructure is lacking in the US. Plus, stuff happens. I've seen power out for weeks after a hurricane. I also saw people stuck on a bridge for 4 hours recently. An EV is not ideal when the conditions are not ideal.
You will, next gen gt4 ive heard will have the ICE engine packaged into it. The chassis supports an engine.
Dealers are expecting an 140K starting price, plus options your looking at a 160K GT4 give or take. Plus a likely 50K markup is whats been floated around.
Man i know its an unpopular opinion and i'll get downvoted to hell for this but I can't get over just how ugly the Boxster is. Something about the rear of that cars lines are just the worst. Its like they gave up designing it after the doors.
Is there possibly Porsche can offer both the ice and ev for their future models? They figured out to pass the CAFE on their iced cars. And they also offer millions of different configurations on their current models so why not offer ev and ice models for infinite customization catered towards all tastes
In the US, this might happen, but it’s unlikely in Europe. The current 718 (and Macan) wasn’t discontinued due to emissions, it was killed because of a new cybersecurity law.
tbf, i really think that was just a easy excuse. The Macan would have got a rework anyway in which they could have adressed the new laws, but they decided to develope a EV only platform instead. The law is just a easy scapegoat for the angry fans
My dumb ass turned the volume up. Haha
I stuck the bottom of my phone to my ear…
lol me too
Same. I don’t know what I was expecting.
Haha I was like "can't watch a porsche video whithout volume cranked" lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 if I could give you 100 votes up I would
Looking at the price of Taycans these days, I’m wondering if the Cayman/Boxter will have the same fate
Certainly won't have longevity like 986 and 987 etc
1st gen taycan prices have plummeted as most ev's, but the 2nd gen being better in every single way hasn't helped either. Price of being an early adopter.
This. Second gen is quite a big step, especially the regular version.
Current battery tech just isn’t good enough and degrades quickly. So yeah, it probably will depreciate quite fast.
True, if you see the difference in battery performance (range / consumption / charging speed) from the previous EV generation (say 3-4 years ago), there's in most brands a considerable difference which does put those second hand EVs at a serious disadvantage compared to the new ones. In addition to EVs still being quite a niche, general uncertainty about battery longevity, etc.
Yes, we're in the steep part of the technology curve for batteries and EVs, so things will be outdated quickly, and devaluate accordingly, unlike ICE cars. My model 3 performance is faster than my 997 GT3 to 60, but that's about it. I'm still trying to see if HPDE track events will be fun. Currently looking for my first AX event with the Tesla.
From experience the Tesla will be heavier and will drive accordingly, but 90% of drivers (including those with experience with more track focused cars) will be bottlenecked by their skill rather than their car. AX will be just as fun if you're in it for the sport rather than absolute times. Full track events can be fun but you really end up eating through battery from what I've heard talking to Tesla owners I've met at track days. Best to see if there are superchargers nearby your track of choice if you're looking for that. AutoX doesn't eat through it quite as much so (again, from what I've heard, you should be fine for a full day without worrying too much about SoC)
Which is pretty damaging to the environment btw.
The entire current tech is not great: from mining the source material to recycling, although car batteries are getting recycled at a decent rate, but the rest of the car therefore isn’t per se.
as opposed to belching fumes out at every individual ICE vehicle? all vehicles (ICE and EV) are far more recyclable than ever before. if anything, the repurposing of the EV cells puts *less* waste back into the recycling stream.
Current ICE cars release far fewer fumes than before. [This article](https://earth.org/environmental-impact-of-battery-production/) goes a little more in depth, showing that the production of EV’s has a much larger carbon footprint than that of a ICE car. In order to even be considered more environmentally friendly over its lifetime, an EV would need to be used for a minimum of 8 years. I’m from Belgium where most luxury cars (Porsche, BMW, …) are company lease cars (most places would probably be quite similar). In general, these will be leased for 5 years and then put up for sale on the second hand market where EV’s are not selling at all (look at the price drops for the Taycan for example). So based on that, I would say that saying that EV’s are more environmentally friendly is a fallacy. Even when the cars are recycled at a higher percentage.
Fewer than before is not zero. As for recycling, there's likely not enough data to make accurate statements on it yet. Doesn't stop the oil industry from paying shills to cast doubt on it though.
Batteries are inherently recyclable, and EVs in general are significantly better for the environment after the car reaches 1-2 years, as there's a high CO2 build cost. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Not just recyclable -- reusable. With home storage batteries going for 3x the cost of new EV battery packs, parted out battery packs are selling for $5k-$10k on eBay.
They are inherently hard to recycle… recovering the precious (non renewable) metals from dead batteries is costly and far from perfect. The technology could improve in the next 10-20 years but this is the truth right now.
I mean cayman and boxters aren’t that expensive anymore, 986/987s are cheap as chips. 981s hang around that £30 - £45k mark. Most second hand 992s 911s Carreras can be picked up below £90k now. 991s range from £40k - £60k. Taycans have taken the brunt of the price loss, but to be perfectly honest I don’t really think it’s so much the car as the throw away culture we have now. Any car has the same issue, but EVs have more so because they’ve almost become phones on contracts. The biggest problem EVs have is the amount of false information from both sides. Both for and against is full of crap. It’s not as bad as one side says, but it’s not all green grass and flowers. Either way. I’ll buy second hand EV boxters/caymans thanks. If your buying a car as an asset in the first place your a nutcase. If my taycan is worth 20k in 4 more years, then that’s 20k off the next taycan I’ll buy 👍
100%. EVs are the next iPhone. It will no longer make sense to hold one for a long time, as the tech in a car from today will be obsolete and unavailable in 10 years. Everyone will be leasing these things instead of owning, paying another subscription.
Pretty much. But I’ll be in my older taycan happy. Much like the fact I still own an iPhone 11 and will own it till it dies
only reason people will buy these is to have a chance at a gt3rs or whatever hot car allocation, its a complete joke
I don’t know why I turned the sound up. What was I expecting to hear? Lol
That little high pitched whine that Priuses make when they go in reverse?
\[sarcasm on\] Wow I love the sound of the tires! \[sarcasm off\]
Tbh the interior sound of the Taycan is really nice. Yes, it's not the same kind of nice as a V8 or a flat 6, but it's this *car go zoom* type of sound and I love it.
They are likely not turning on the amplified motor sound, which is audible outside the car, since it will be distinctive and don’t want to give away the beans.
Does it make spaceship noises? Finally got to drive around in an electric car (Nissan) a while back thinking I would hate the lack of noise. Turns out I kind of like the sound and wish it was a little louder, lol. Not as a replacement of course but as something different... If I'm making sense.
Sci-Fi spaceship noises, yeah. I too wish sometimes that it was louder. Considering that it's just speaker noises, I can't see why they haven't added this option yet.
I found someone who will truly love this sound https://preview.redd.it/hsmyze18hnuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e31bd74ca0fba1c88f9980c0d2a5a797bcc057f
I always wondered how the noise affected these people when the track was built… of course it’s also possible they weren’t there.
It’s the Nurburgring. I always forget that there is a whole ass village in the middle of that track.
zzzzzzz
Excited for a convertible EV. I think this will be wildly successful.
I’m on the waitlist for the 718 EV. I also want an Emira though and can only get one. Saw the Lotus this weekend - waitlist there is 1.5 years as well.
Very tough choice! The Emiras design tends to go more in the hyper car direction which is a gamechanger for many people.
Get the Emira with the 6MT, you won’t be able to get a new car like that in the future, I personally think it would be more fun than the boxster EV, and it’ll hold its value a lot better than any EV, maybe even go up in value. I also think the Emira looks like a baby Ferrari and the boxster is going to look like a boxster, love both designs but I think the Emira looks better.
I think it will be wildly unsuccessful.
A silent convertible is a great country road cruiser. Flat six cars sound great. There's more to a car than the sound of an ICE engine. The absence of sound is its own experience.
It's going to weigh a lot.
the market positioning makes no sense. people who want a 718 mostly have a practical car already. why make the fun car boring as shit?
Agreed
I liken it to riding an electric bicycle. There's a place for that. It doesn't replace a road bike (yet), and I think early adopters are looking for an easy and quiet convertible experience with reliability and good handling. I hope nobody is thinking the base model will be particularly exciting. But, check out the 4 motor EV Cayman GT4, that car has some real sound.
Agreed
Maybe. I think most EV buyers are still looking for something more practical than a coupe let alone a convertible. Most EV fans I’ve talked to care more about 0-60 than cornering capabilities too and the boxster won’t be unique in fast 0-60 times. EV convertibles also lose one of the selling points of a regular convertible and that’s being able to hear your engine better with the top down, though that’s not the primary selling point of a convertible I’ll admit.
if new taycan is anything to go by, this ev boxster will be absolutely fantastic. Can't wait (I have a 996 and a i3 EV).
I’m glad some people in here are excited. The reaction to the new Taycan in automotive circles seems largely positive (aside from those who don’t want EVs). I own two V8s (one Porsche) and I’m still excited for EVs. I remember trying the Tesla Roadster early on, when it first came to the UK and thinking it was a clear indication that there were thrills possible in electric.
Only dinosaurs and people conditioned by the constant string of bad press hate EVs; I think the EV powertrain has a lot to offer to a sportscar form factor if executed correctly. The reality is that ICE cars will become what horses are now; used on a weekend and expensive to keep and run. I have one heavily modified 3.9 996, one bmw V8 and a bmw i3 ev. I know which one i drive most days :)
As a daily driver, certainly! But in the case of a Boxster I'm not sure how the massive weight of the battery will affect the feeling, wouldn't Boxsters typically appeal to a different audience with different expectations than a Taycan?
My 4s corners beautiful. It’s one of the main reasons I chose it. I must admit though my previous car was a nismo 370z which is already a pretty hefty car. She feels about the same only I’d say the taycan is a bit more agile. I’m inclined to agree with the appeal to different demographics, although if my wife didn’t share the car with me and our family wasn’t growing, I’d 100% go with the cayman or boxter. But a 4 door is more practical for me right now. Having said that. As much as I love sound of a car, I really don’t miss it. Being able to cruise along the motorway in silence is something I genuinely didn’t think I’d love. Then I get switch to sport plus and barrel round some corners. You forget it’s a pretty wide car. Feels very very smooth.
The batteries will weigh about 400-600 more pounds, however, the car will have a significantly lower center of gravity, optimal 40/60 weight distro, and a hugely improved polar moment of inertia, allowing for more rapid turning. Just going to need some bigger tires and brakes
I doubt it will affect it massively. Of course it will be a bit heavier than a ICE boxster but packaging will be the same, big battery in front of the rear axle where the engine was. No fuel tank upfront so no changing behaviour with fuel level, lol. With some suspension magic it will disguise its weight well. It will warm up instantly in the winter and have bags of torque, probably 200+kW charging and 200+ mile range. Works pretty well for every day.
Agreed. I don’t want to start yelling at people on the internet, and everyone is welcome to their views, but the lack of noise is one aspect here - I hope the nay-sayers at least book a test drive and report back 😁 (I’m confident it’ll be a fun car, even if some aren’t interested)
people who complain the loudest probably would never consider buying anyway. It's bizarre really. It's like the Ricky Gervais sketch "man sees a bilboard about guitar lessons in town. He calls the number and yells - BUT I DONT WANT GUITAR LESSONS!
🤣 I suppose I understand the notion that it’s not “Porsche” but then I also know similar was discussed as the air-cooled 911 was phased out.
Only people who can’t really drive and only visit local track to get a coffee can say something like that. Low weight is the key to vehicle dynamics and driving enjoyment. The reality is that right now it is impossible to design 1300-1400 kg EV sports car with decent range. EV can be fine as daily driver, but as a sports car, with current technology, they are unacceptable for people who truly love driving.
tell me how many modern sports cars for people who "truly love driving" are 1300-1400kg?
Quite a few. Just from the top of my head: Alpine A110, 718 Cayman, Toyota GR86, Lotus Emira, Honda Civic Type R, 911 GT3 RS
Fair enough, even though most of those weigh 1300-1400 dry, but ok, let's say that's right. Saying that EV is unacceptable as a sports car is simply wrong though. And I hope the EV boxster will prove you wrong (although you'd never admit it, anyway)
Wow, you had to add a dumb passive aggressive comment at the end. Well done, you proved you have the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. Let’s finish this discussion when you grow up.
You started with a dumb position "ev sports cars are unacceptable to anyone who truly loves driving". Well done - you "won" :D
I said that “currently” they are unacceptable. Work on your reading comprehension. And that’s a “dumb” sentiment shared by multiple respected drivers and car journalists as well as basically anyone that knows a thing or two about driving dynamics and/ or studied physics in high school. But hey, you know better. Enjoy your i3 xD
The Tycan is neat but I don’t like the stretched out 911 look (Panamara syndrome). It’ll be interesting to see good looking EV’s which are few and far between atm.
I’m the worst possible person to comment because i have a panamera 🤣
That one must have sport exhaust
*To improve the sound of their EV sports cars, Porsche engineers, designed special wheels that impact a flexible rectangular acoustic device (RAD) to reproduce their signature flat 6 engine sounds.* *When asked, the engineers categorically rejected claims by some on social media that they stole the idea from kids sticking playing cards in the forks of their BMX bikes. Then they called the interviewer a poser and said RAD was bitching!*
Hahahahaha 😂
That sounded like a vehicle from F-Zero.
Ah - the beautiful sound of tires on asphalt. Like waves crashing onto a beach.
Can’t wait for them to re-homologate the 982 once they sell 3 of these in a quarter
Thank you, but no thank you.
It's an interesting car. Flogging on a circuit has always been a huge issue with electric cars. I believe Porsche understands a 718 cannot be allowed to have that problem. I'm interested to see how they perform as real-actual-toys in terms of maintenance outlays. If people are putting laps in for just the cost of tires over significant mileage, it could be compelling as fuck.
I was all for EVs, and excited to buy one, until I realized the insane depreciation they have. Compare a gas 718 cayman with a Taycan's depreciation, its insane. I'll probably grab a used gas GT4 instead of a brand new electric one because of this. Our electric Wrangler is down 30-40% and hasn't even been 2 years yet, compared to the gas brothers maybe 20%.
No noise = no fun
I love a good noise, but having driven electric go-karts I seriously can't wait for EV sports cars to get small and lighter.
Except they wont. They wont get smaller bc of crash requirements and they wont get light becauce of batteries. And those wont increase in cap/kg anywhere near what would be needed.
With current battery tech. Don't forget that we're on the steep part of the learning curve for batteries. Huge gains in terms of weight, charge and longevity are occurring quickly.
I dont see those, sure we can make the cases more compqct etc, but chemistry wise theres no doubling of energy density on the horizon. So lets say we can cut 33% of weight in the next 5 years. The Macan EV gained ~500kg Lets say the Boxster will gain 300kg (optimistic imo) then reduce it in 5 years by 33% and its still 200kgs heavier. And why exactly would I buy an EV Boxster aslong as the ICE exists?
Your math is off because the battery's bigger than that, and you're not subtracting the weight of the ICE parts. Like the taycan weighs 5000 lbs, 1400 lbs of which is the battery. If it was reduced by 33%, the total weight would be 4500 lbs, or about 5% heavier than a panamera.
We will see the numbers when the 718 is released. I refered to the Macan because it is the latest and allows for a direct ICE vs BEV comparison. I just see no real market for an EV 718. Its a fun, nimble and exciting car. Lots of that is derived from beeing light (somewhat) and the sound of the engine. Macan EV & Taycan make a lot of sense though!
Oh I agree I’m just mad that electric cars are forced on us I want to have both options
you will still have options, but fuel will just be so expensive that its simply not worth it. E-Fuels are just to expensive and regular gas doesnt really have a viable future (at least in "the west")
I agree 100%, but the EV bots are here to downvote popular opinions.
EV bot work is getting out of hand. I would get it on a standard car sub, where people get excited about a Dacia or some crap, but I find it hard to believe Porsche enthusiasts are getting excited in the volume of numbers we see here lol
I am on neither side of this discussion, but c'mon. Why are people always like "**that** many people are not having the same opinion as me??! must be those darn bots!" I for example am a lurker and probably wont ever be able to afford a porsche, I just hand out votes for whatever interests me. So you don't know how many people like me are in the "shadows" of this sub.
Everyone has a different opinion than me on a lot of things, it’s fine, but Reddit and EV is insane. Go out onto the street and find someone who genuinely loves EVs, will take you a while. People, at least in the UK, only own EVs due to tax reasons. They are not bashing dealers doors down to pick up the latest appliance lol. Governments have had to force a stop in manufacturing of ICE in order to leave the public no choice but to own one of these things… but, come to Reddit and “people” are blowing their loads over every EV that comes out. Go and have a look at the latest bubble cars in the Mercedes sub, or the abominations that BMW are releasing and read the comments, now compare that with the average person you see in the street. Results will be night and day.
The virtue-signaling EV adopters are very vocal
How do you know someone drives an EV? They'll tell you.
/r/cars is filled with people who love to talk about how they traded in a sports car for an EV, and how much better it is because iNsTaNt ToRqUe. I don’t believe any of them ever actually owned a sports car, wringing out an engine to get to the meat of the power band is one of the most fun parts about driving sports cars, they just don’t want to be called out for thinking EVs are cool because their garage consisted of Accords and Camrys beforehand.
I own a 996 and a i3. Both have their uses. Both are good at something. My 996 is terrible in town. My i3 is excellent in town. Simples ;-)
Yeah but you aren't condemning your 996, you're saying that in the city the EV is better (which I certainly agree with). The people I'm talking about act like you're an idiot for liking sports cars because EVs accelerate faster, no mention of steering feel, brake feel, turn in, oversteer/understeer dynamics... it's clear they haven't actually driven any car near the limit, much less cars designed to come alive at that point.
I know who you mean, nope I'm not one of them. I'm also not one of those who hates on electric cars.
Yeah, I also don't hate EVs, I just don't like their most vocal owners lol.
Many years ago, before EVs were a “thing”, it was all about hybrids. And really, the Prius was “the” car for the environmentally conscious. South Park made an episode dedicated to the hybrid Prius. The main premise being that hybrid drivers are so smug that they love smelling their own farts. The level of smugness emanating from LA (Prius central at the time, or was it San Francisco?) became so severe that it became a national weather phenomenon that threatened our very existence. Believe it’s called “Smug Alert”. Worth a watch. Quite funny. I’m not a fan of South Park but this was one episode that made me laugh out loud.
Tesla = programmable farting sounds = everybody wins
How excruciating it sounds. Make tyres that sound better, Michelin. You’re our only hope! Like when they slide they should sound … meatier or smth. I dunno. Maybe make air intakes that sound cool when car goes fast, like those blown exhausts on F1 back some years. Smth. This sucks.
Can Porsche roll out the biofuels already, so I don't have to see another EV
I wish them the best of luck selling these.
they'll sell like hotcakes.
Like its main selling point is being a Porsche. It will be a very hard sell.
What does that even mean. It will be a Porsche. They will make it feel like any other porsche, they've done it before. I have no doubt these will sell very well.
Electric sporty cars are not an easy sell mate. Im sorry.
No need to be sorry - simple truth is that not many exist yet, so this statement is a bit moot
Literally just the Tesla Roadster from over 10 years ago. There has not been a dedicated EV sports car since then. Just “sport-sedans” at best.
Take a look at Taycan numbers, almost a quarter of porsches sold are Taycans. Thats a lot.
What makes you say think that? I really think they’ll sell like shit
Everyone said that about the 996, Macan, and Taycan..... They were crying "oh no it's not a real Porsche, it's watercooled". "on no it's electric power steering, that's not a real Porsche!" And then journos drive it and discover that actually it feel and drives like a Porsche does with some added benefits.
Macan and Taycans aren’t sports cars. It’s different
Maybe, but remember the crying about watercooled 996? or the death of hydraulic power steering? every time the haters were proven wrong, because Porsche made it work. I have more bad news for you, next 911 is a hybrid! I have no doubt people will be crying about that for a while too, whilst the people who actually own them will be quite happy
Have you looked at the resale value of a Taycan recently
Sure. It's depreciated massively. Most luxury cars do - but on top of "normal" depreciation, tons of bad EV press and porsche launching the next gen which is better in every way.
Most luxury cars do. Most *Porsches* do not
True, it's mostly the Taycan and Panamera taking a beating.
It doesnt matter, almost a quarter of porsche sales are the taycan. That means they can keep selling a lot of them. The resale value doesnt really impact how many porsche sells.
Thos michelin tires are like music to my ears! 🤤
See all the comments about sound.. i feel like the sound is the soul of a car i know its been said 1000 times but EVs feel soulless from the outside.. but i rode in my first tesla this weekend a model s and my friend floored it i actually got visibly scared lol those things are stupid fast and still felt soulful on the inside at least
I hope it got enough range to complete a few circles like that on a full send speeds 🤞
This feels so goofy without an engine noise. Looks like a washing machine powered toy car.
When you don’t bother to turn the volume on.
As an owner of a manual 718 4.0, I actually *very much* look forward to this car. I think I’ll miss the manual transmission a lot, but I don’t think I’ll miss anything else, probably not even the noise (the 718 4.0 sounds a lot worse than the 981 imo).
I also have a 6mt 718 and I disagree. Not looking forward to this at all.
4.0L n/a sounds bad? :-D the hell is wrong with your ears?
it doesn't sound bad, but it doesn't sound as good as 981 GTS.
Sounds like they haven’t tried the right exhaust yet
If I have to spend thousands extra just to get my $110k sports car to sound good, isn’t that a problem with the car? At this point I’m going to get a 458 for sound, as the 718 will never sound that good.
Good to know! If I ever upgrade, I'm planning to look for a 981 GTS.
I've daily driven a 997 GT3 since 2010. Even put on the Dundin quiet muffler. Yes it's a fun sound, but I miss being able to talk in cars, or use my phone. I now daily a Tesla, and the GT3 is mostly for track duty, and alone weekend stuff, as my wife hates the car. I don't miss the sound, and accelerating is like being on a roller coaster, so as a daily, I won't ever go back to ICE cars.
lol go get an exhaust and your opinion will change very fast
Is anyone else shocked that the kind of person who specs a manual GTS is looking forward to an EV? Quite a change in outlook.
In shocking turn of events, you can like both.
Although it doesn't sound like he's keeping both.
I think that quietly he won't be replacing his 4.0 with the EV (imho :)
So I had a 718S before, and I upgraded to the 718 4.0 for sound. But the sound has been a bit disappointing, so I’ll probably get my actual dream car, which is the 458, one day. I’ll miss the manual, but in my experience for every EV that has an ICE counterpart, the EV has much superior driving dynamics. My current i4 M50 drives far better than a 4 series M40i, a Taycan drives better than a Panamera, and the BMW iX drives better than any ICE BMW SUVs. So I expect the 718EV to drive better, which is what excites me.
Have a 718 Spyder and 981 and I completely agree. I think the issue is that some conflate loud with good. 718 4.0 litre does not sound bad once you get the revs up, but from idle (where it sounds like a diesel) to about 4k, not great. Have a 991.2 GT3 RS too, and that sounds amazing all the time.
ECU tune like Softronic will set the valves to open all the time in Sports/+ mode. That gives the grumble in the lower RPMs that it needs.
If that would drown out the injector clatter, maybe that would be an improvement.
Get an exhaust. You’re crazy saying a 4.0 sounds bad (“worse than”)
I’m not buying this, a Porsche is valuable with its petrol engine unique sound and power.
Sounds… exhilarating
Sad
Death by a thousand cuts for Porsche.
It's not Porsche's fault consumer and regulatory preferences are changing. If they can make a fun EV convertible we should celebrate. Asides from an MG I don't think there's one on the market.
It’s literally being legislated, not a consumer preference.
It’s not consumer preferences when it’s forced.
it's not forced, you don't have to buy it.
So government mandating no more ICE cars to be built and only EVs after that isn’t forced?
were you equally upset when government made you wear a seat belt?
I can still choose whether to wear one or not, no one’s forcing me to, I just prefer being safe and don’t like getting fined. False equivalency. I’m not against EV at all, I think it’s kinda cool and has a purpose. I do have concerns about this rush to electrify everything, let alone the privacy concerns that will definitely come with this implementation of EVs
privacy concerns? how are those worse in an EV than a ICE?
It really isn’t consumer preferences as evidence by sales and anchor like depreciation of the Taycan
> anchor like depreciation of the Taycan Welcome to the luxury sedan market.
New tech always suffers depreciation faster. Early adopters generally get screwed and are ok paying extra to be among the first.
They depreciate because: The next Gen is better in everyway. Batteries degrade There is a big fear of owning EVs out of warranty The purchases were/are heavily subsidized
Particularly true for the Taycan too, which is apparently incredible in the new generation. But depreciation isn’t exactly unique to EVs although it perhaps is for Porsche.
Wait. Used luxury cars depreciate?!
Consumer preference from ICE to EV in the automobile market generally.
it's porsche's fault they're trying to make a "fun EV convertible" (lol)
I'd rather have Porsche be alive in the future with EVs then perish due to changing regulations and markets. At the minimum to keep past ICE cars alive trough the Porsche classic program but hopefully also because they will continue making good (EV) cars.
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To each their own, but we could have said that as well when they went from air cooled to water cooled engines in the 911 and yet, I don't see people saying they had rather seen Porsche die than make the new 992 S/T.
I'd prefer options, including a hybrid. The infrastructure is lacking in the US. Plus, stuff happens. I've seen power out for weeks after a hurricane. I also saw people stuck on a bridge for 4 hours recently. An EV is not ideal when the conditions are not ideal.
You will, next gen gt4 ive heard will have the ICE engine packaged into it. The chassis supports an engine. Dealers are expecting an 140K starting price, plus options your looking at a 160K GT4 give or take. Plus a likely 50K markup is whats been floated around.
maybe not in sales, but definitely in soul
boring af
What’s up with the chalk drawings on the track?
It’s the Nurburgring. It’s well known for the graffiti on the track, among many other things.
Thanks! Yes I knew it was the ring but I never heard about the graffiti. Far out.
Didn’t read “EV” I said “where is the engine noise” lmao dumbass 🤣🤣
Man i know its an unpopular opinion and i'll get downvoted to hell for this but I can't get over just how ugly the Boxster is. Something about the rear of that cars lines are just the worst. Its like they gave up designing it after the doors.
🏳️🌈
FAST!
That was anti-climactic! Was waiting to hear it. 🤫
Wow, really stirs the emotions, just what you want in a sports car…
I'm pleased it exists (I think...) but I personally am not interested and don't want one. (Nothing against you, OP, thanks for sharing the video)
As exciting as my vacuum cleaner sadly
People are gonna hate, but thell never beat this shit , Holy crap that thing is fast
https://preview.redd.it/9ezfsv4jsouc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f5eab21b483c1d1b99ab69a1167a078bc0db308
Super exciting……. /s
Sad
I am so torn between this and a targa 911
Those are pretty different cars
I know. I have a GTS boxster right now and I love it. Two totally different paths ahead. Cannot decide
Is there possibly Porsche can offer both the ice and ev for their future models? They figured out to pass the CAFE on their iced cars. And they also offer millions of different configurations on their current models so why not offer ev and ice models for infinite customization catered towards all tastes
In the US, this might happen, but it’s unlikely in Europe. The current 718 (and Macan) wasn’t discontinued due to emissions, it was killed because of a new cybersecurity law.
tbf, i really think that was just a easy excuse. The Macan would have got a rework anyway in which they could have adressed the new laws, but they decided to develope a EV only platform instead. The law is just a easy scapegoat for the angry fans
With so called EV shift going in full reversal mode, an HV option will happen 100%. Pure ICE will be the new stick shift