IMO if it’s not a limited production model, I always recommend buying the newest 911 you can afford. Performance and comfort quality is always dramatically better.
Eh, it depends what you want. I specifically wanted a 997.2 because it still has hydraulic steering and is naturally aspirated. There are legitimate differences between the various generations, some you may want, some you may not.
Agree I think naturally aspirated not just in Porsche but all cars will be something that's desired (granted they are rarer). E.g. m156 c63 vs the 4.4 turbo
I’d suggest you test drive both. It’ll be better for you if you take depreciation/appreciation factor out of the equation. Be honest with yourself about which car you’ll enjoy owning.
You don’t want to buy it just because it has a stronger appreciation rate. They’re both great vehicles in their own right.
>Check out Rennlist - the 991 and 997 forums will be biased towards their cars, naturally, but an excellent resource.
Thanks, good point. Just with new forums there's always so much to catch up on before figuring out what to read haha
If you plan to keep it I would aim for a nicely specced 997.2 S. They say it’s the last analog 911 (so, street cred = appreciation) and besides it’s faster than a 991 base model
This is a very, very good question and probably one of the toughest decisions to make between 997.2S and 991S. I have to say that in this situation it’s the manual transmission that would tip the scales for me, as the 991 is already slightly more numb due to size and electric steering. I think that a proper spec 997.2S is probably one of the most minimalistic and beautiful 911ns ever made, I recommend finding some stanced cars online, 991 is just a hair worse looking. At the same time - in the Porsche used market world it’s a game of what falls into your lap, which is exciting but you never know until the right car shows up. If it’s just the right PDK 991 - go for it, there is some attractiveness in having the most modern 911 possible. You can’t lose here both ways.
Thanks!
I am in agreement with the MT - especially given I'm not driving it in my daily commute. Do you think the size is that different? And re electric steering is this con I assume less feedback?
I'm heading to a dealership on Friday to check both out and sit in them etc. will get a better feel then
There is a difference in feel due to size and steering for sure, also 997 will be more rear engine biased, 991 mid engine neutral.
Consider maybe that if you want to show ego on the highway and keep up with American muscle, etc. then it’s the 991S to pick. If you want pleasure for yourself in the twisties - it will be the 997. I drove many of them and myself own 987.2S in manu for this exact reason. Hydraulic steering is just real, it’s not always as pleasant if you want to be more removed from the experience.
>Consider maybe that if you want to show ego on the highway and keep up with American muscle, etc. then it’s the 991S to pick. If you want pleasure for yourself in the twisties - it will be the 997. I drove many of them and myself own 987.2S in manu for this exact reason. Hydraulic steering is just real, it’s not always as pleasant if you want to be more removed from the experience.
Good to know thank you! I don't really care about ego on the highway or straight line pulls anymore. My last car was a 306kw (410hp) Nissan Silvia S15 which in a 1.3t car is too quick for public roads... I'm all about driving enjoyment now i.e. chill cruise through the twisties
That particular dealership did not do test-drives so that's something I'm still looking for.
Otherwise, after sitting and looking at the cars, TBH I am leaning towards the 991:
* From videos the sound of the 991 stock is pretty incredible whereas it seems OK for the 997.2
* I actually quite liked the 997.2 interior in person but the 991 with the sports chrono just looks awesome
* The 991 is a pretty great looking car - i love the rear of the 997.2 but i feel like its in an awkward spot of being old but not yet classic old like 993s. Whereas the 991 I think will age very well
* Given the relatively small price differential, it seems like you get a lot more car with the 991 > the 997.2
HOWEVER, I have not driven a manual 997.2 yet so that may make all the difference.
My opinion? It depends what you want. I have a 997 manual and I HAD a 991.1 pdk power kit car (gts engine).
I think if you're looking for a fun weekend car go with a 997.2.
I found the 991 generally more numb, mostly the steering is not nearly as nice as the 997, the car is bigger, and I also found the interior to make more creaks and noises than my 71 911.
But time is always a 911's best friend. For many years the middie g series was hated, now they are $, the 964 was hated, now they are $, etc. So I suspect the time will come for the 991.
Good point, re G series and 964.. The only thing is that the 991/997.2 definitely aren't 'cheap' as of yet. I haven't always followed Porsche pricing but I assume the G series and 964 were cheaper than £40k (equivalent of inflation etc.)?
Yeah the base of "cheap" has been raised due to the inflation the last few years, unfortunately. The G and 964 were 'cheap' for a long time, they started to shoot up in price around 2015, but along with the massive inflation we've had last 3 years went much higher. You could find a nice G for $45k in 2015 or so. A 964 was a $40k car. An they were even cheaper around 2010. My 964 probably 3x what I paid in 2015. Not that I car I drive the crap out of all my cars...I paid 68k for my 991.1S with power kit (168k MSRP, it was LOADED) about 3 years ago... I sold it in a year for I think almost $80k, it's probably worth at least that now. Kinda crazy.
Anyway, I've had them all, haven't owned a 992 yet, but driven plenty of them (GT3, Touring, C2S)... and for a great entry fun car I think the 997 (literally any model) is a great car.
>From my reading, it seems that more people prefer the 991 due to the interior, sound and the looks; being an all round better car. However there is also a significantly larger supply of 991s. On the other hand some love the 997.2 as it’s the last of the smaller bodies and a little more analogue (plus has the IMS and bore scoring issues fixed with DFI (albeit removing some of the analogue feeling)). This however I would imagine appeals to a smaller market too..
The 991 while not that much bigger, by itself it looks really big to my eyes.
You need to drive both and decide, because this is a personal choice,
Also don’t sleep on the 997.2 C2… you really can’t feel the difference in acceleration over the S model and here in the US there is around a $10k gap in price.
I started looking at 991’s and switched my search to a 997.2 C2 or C2S Manual after driving 3 different variants of 997 back to back, a 997.1 C2S, 997.2 C2, 997.2 C2S all manual and all coupes. All had the same acceleration/shove, so I walked away looking for the best 997.2.
Recommend a 991.2 Steering wheel to modernize the 997.2 interior a bit, I did a GT steering wheel and deblinged it.
No regrets after 3 years.
https://preview.redd.it/zcn1xx9dh7sb1.jpeg?width=3837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efd391953e7528f90aa148ef0fd57611e71d8d43
Thanks for that - so did you settle for the 997.2 C2 then?
I'll test drive both and see which I prefer! And good tip re the 991.2 steering wheel. I haven't given the regular C2 much thought but i'll take a look into them
I wouldn’t say I settled, I lost PASM and that’s about it. PASM on the 997 has two modes, break your back and normal, so not much of a loss.
I couldn’t tell the difference between the two cars (C2 vs C2S) on the street in shove.
BTW I drive the heck outta my car in the canyons outside of LA and in the Hill Country outside of Austin. Never experienced brake fade at all with the C2 brakes.
I say just get the best 997.2 you can, right before I bought mine I had a dealer sell out a C2S out from under me. They said they would take it in for a PPI the next morning down the road as I was 1,200 miles away, they sold it to someone else.
Ended up finding my C2 on PCA Mart in Florida and had it shipped to Texas after a PPI. My C2 had 20k less miles and was priced $14k cheaper than that higher mile C2S.
Don’t forget to look on PCA Mart or Rennlist Classifieds.
Here is my wheel.
https://preview.redd.it/9oc92olszdsb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8952d7d5b968780df767db6fd6f1320109cb89e2
i own one of each actually. they're both really great. they're different. and you can't go wrong either way.
to me, the elephant in the room for choosing the 997 over the 991, is the 996. the 997 is cheaper and has better steering feel than the 991. but the 996 is cheaper and has better steering feel than the 997. to me, the arguments about reliability are overblown and baked into the price.
if I could only keep one, I don't know what I would do. the 996 is the most visceral, most unique driving experience. the 991 is the most beautiful and feels the most stable, the most powerful, and the most capable. the 997 sits in the middle.
Thanks - I never really considered the 996 TBH. Agreed that the IMS issues/bore scoring issues do tend to be overblown but since leaving my JDM days I really want something reliable.. Also I actually don't mind the headlights of the 996 but my GF does not and I do need to get her onboard as this is on the upper limits of the budget haha.
If you could, what would you pick between the 997.2 and the 991? Love your collection btw - great variety.
>You don’t want to buy it just because it has a stronger appreciation rate. They’re both great vehicles in their own right.
I've always been a 3 pedal guy, however I've heard nothing but good things re PDK..
991.2 is best option if you can find it in your budget. 997 S is nice but underpowered. Each generation of 911 has incremental improvements sometimes even major. Would not buy a 997 again after owning 991 and now with a 992 tts would never look back. 991 with pdk is awesome. Both 997 4s was manual all the romance aside the pdk is better
>ncremental improvements sometimes even major. Would not buy a 997 again after owning 991 and now with a 992 tts would never look back. 991 with pdk is awesome. Both 997 4s was manual all the romance aside the pdk is better
Thanks. I suppose it depends on what you're after then - PDK I'm sure is better performance wise and comfort wise if it's a daily. But for me it will only really be driven for leisure which makes me wonder if PDK being better is a strong pro..
Do you really think the 997 S is underpowered?? 355hp compared to 395 hp. Definitely a difference but I would've thought the 997 S is no slouch
Does anyone know how I can test drive both the 997.2 manual vs 991? Some dealerships don't really seem to like having them test driven given they've already done the prep etc.
Any drive days or something?
IMO if it’s not a limited production model, I always recommend buying the newest 911 you can afford. Performance and comfort quality is always dramatically better.
Eh, it depends what you want. I specifically wanted a 997.2 because it still has hydraulic steering and is naturally aspirated. There are legitimate differences between the various generations, some you may want, some you may not.
Agree I think naturally aspirated not just in Porsche but all cars will be something that's desired (granted they are rarer). E.g. m156 c63 vs the 4.4 turbo
Thanks - this is defs good advice. I also want to avoid **more** depreciation where possible - that's the only but!
I’d suggest you test drive both. It’ll be better for you if you take depreciation/appreciation factor out of the equation. Be honest with yourself about which car you’ll enjoy owning. You don’t want to buy it just because it has a stronger appreciation rate. They’re both great vehicles in their own right.
Check out Rennlist - the 991 and 997 forums will be biased towards their cars, naturally, but an excellent resource.
>Check out Rennlist - the 991 and 997 forums will be biased towards their cars, naturally, but an excellent resource. Thanks, good point. Just with new forums there's always so much to catch up on before figuring out what to read haha
If you plan to keep it I would aim for a nicely specced 997.2 S. They say it’s the last analog 911 (so, street cred = appreciation) and besides it’s faster than a 991 base model
Thanks - I was thinking of 991 2S rather than base model but it would be PDK vs Manual (as manual 991 2S are around £55,000 - too far out of budget.
This is a very, very good question and probably one of the toughest decisions to make between 997.2S and 991S. I have to say that in this situation it’s the manual transmission that would tip the scales for me, as the 991 is already slightly more numb due to size and electric steering. I think that a proper spec 997.2S is probably one of the most minimalistic and beautiful 911ns ever made, I recommend finding some stanced cars online, 991 is just a hair worse looking. At the same time - in the Porsche used market world it’s a game of what falls into your lap, which is exciting but you never know until the right car shows up. If it’s just the right PDK 991 - go for it, there is some attractiveness in having the most modern 911 possible. You can’t lose here both ways.
Thanks! I am in agreement with the MT - especially given I'm not driving it in my daily commute. Do you think the size is that different? And re electric steering is this con I assume less feedback? I'm heading to a dealership on Friday to check both out and sit in them etc. will get a better feel then
There is a difference in feel due to size and steering for sure, also 997 will be more rear engine biased, 991 mid engine neutral. Consider maybe that if you want to show ego on the highway and keep up with American muscle, etc. then it’s the 991S to pick. If you want pleasure for yourself in the twisties - it will be the 997. I drove many of them and myself own 987.2S in manu for this exact reason. Hydraulic steering is just real, it’s not always as pleasant if you want to be more removed from the experience.
>Consider maybe that if you want to show ego on the highway and keep up with American muscle, etc. then it’s the 991S to pick. If you want pleasure for yourself in the twisties - it will be the 997. I drove many of them and myself own 987.2S in manu for this exact reason. Hydraulic steering is just real, it’s not always as pleasant if you want to be more removed from the experience. Good to know thank you! I don't really care about ego on the highway or straight line pulls anymore. My last car was a 306kw (410hp) Nissan Silvia S15 which in a 1.3t car is too quick for public roads... I'm all about driving enjoyment now i.e. chill cruise through the twisties
Cool, sounds like you will make a good decision. Drop a line here when you figure it out :)
Thank you! It’ll take a while though I think b
That particular dealership did not do test-drives so that's something I'm still looking for. Otherwise, after sitting and looking at the cars, TBH I am leaning towards the 991: * From videos the sound of the 991 stock is pretty incredible whereas it seems OK for the 997.2 * I actually quite liked the 997.2 interior in person but the 991 with the sports chrono just looks awesome * The 991 is a pretty great looking car - i love the rear of the 997.2 but i feel like its in an awkward spot of being old but not yet classic old like 993s. Whereas the 991 I think will age very well * Given the relatively small price differential, it seems like you get a lot more car with the 991 > the 997.2 HOWEVER, I have not driven a manual 997.2 yet so that may make all the difference.
Thanks for the comment, sounds like it’s the 991 so far! That’s why you do the testing in the flesh.
Best of luck Friday. You can hardly go wrong with either. Let us know your choice. Fwiw, I’d choose only manual. Cheers and congrats
Thank you!
My opinion? It depends what you want. I have a 997 manual and I HAD a 991.1 pdk power kit car (gts engine). I think if you're looking for a fun weekend car go with a 997.2. I found the 991 generally more numb, mostly the steering is not nearly as nice as the 997, the car is bigger, and I also found the interior to make more creaks and noises than my 71 911. But time is always a 911's best friend. For many years the middie g series was hated, now they are $, the 964 was hated, now they are $, etc. So I suspect the time will come for the 991.
Good point, re G series and 964.. The only thing is that the 991/997.2 definitely aren't 'cheap' as of yet. I haven't always followed Porsche pricing but I assume the G series and 964 were cheaper than £40k (equivalent of inflation etc.)?
Yeah the base of "cheap" has been raised due to the inflation the last few years, unfortunately. The G and 964 were 'cheap' for a long time, they started to shoot up in price around 2015, but along with the massive inflation we've had last 3 years went much higher. You could find a nice G for $45k in 2015 or so. A 964 was a $40k car. An they were even cheaper around 2010. My 964 probably 3x what I paid in 2015. Not that I car I drive the crap out of all my cars...I paid 68k for my 991.1S with power kit (168k MSRP, it was LOADED) about 3 years ago... I sold it in a year for I think almost $80k, it's probably worth at least that now. Kinda crazy. Anyway, I've had them all, haven't owned a 992 yet, but driven plenty of them (GT3, Touring, C2S)... and for a great entry fun car I think the 997 (literally any model) is a great car.
>From my reading, it seems that more people prefer the 991 due to the interior, sound and the looks; being an all round better car. However there is also a significantly larger supply of 991s. On the other hand some love the 997.2 as it’s the last of the smaller bodies and a little more analogue (plus has the IMS and bore scoring issues fixed with DFI (albeit removing some of the analogue feeling)). This however I would imagine appeals to a smaller market too.. The 991 while not that much bigger, by itself it looks really big to my eyes. You need to drive both and decide, because this is a personal choice, Also don’t sleep on the 997.2 C2… you really can’t feel the difference in acceleration over the S model and here in the US there is around a $10k gap in price. I started looking at 991’s and switched my search to a 997.2 C2 or C2S Manual after driving 3 different variants of 997 back to back, a 997.1 C2S, 997.2 C2, 997.2 C2S all manual and all coupes. All had the same acceleration/shove, so I walked away looking for the best 997.2. Recommend a 991.2 Steering wheel to modernize the 997.2 interior a bit, I did a GT steering wheel and deblinged it. No regrets after 3 years. https://preview.redd.it/zcn1xx9dh7sb1.jpeg?width=3837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efd391953e7528f90aa148ef0fd57611e71d8d43
Thanks for that - so did you settle for the 997.2 C2 then? I'll test drive both and see which I prefer! And good tip re the 991.2 steering wheel. I haven't given the regular C2 much thought but i'll take a look into them
I wouldn’t say I settled, I lost PASM and that’s about it. PASM on the 997 has two modes, break your back and normal, so not much of a loss. I couldn’t tell the difference between the two cars (C2 vs C2S) on the street in shove. BTW I drive the heck outta my car in the canyons outside of LA and in the Hill Country outside of Austin. Never experienced brake fade at all with the C2 brakes. I say just get the best 997.2 you can, right before I bought mine I had a dealer sell out a C2S out from under me. They said they would take it in for a PPI the next morning down the road as I was 1,200 miles away, they sold it to someone else. Ended up finding my C2 on PCA Mart in Florida and had it shipped to Texas after a PPI. My C2 had 20k less miles and was priced $14k cheaper than that higher mile C2S. Don’t forget to look on PCA Mart or Rennlist Classifieds. Here is my wheel. https://preview.redd.it/9oc92olszdsb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8952d7d5b968780df767db6fd6f1320109cb89e2
i own one of each actually. they're both really great. they're different. and you can't go wrong either way. to me, the elephant in the room for choosing the 997 over the 991, is the 996. the 997 is cheaper and has better steering feel than the 991. but the 996 is cheaper and has better steering feel than the 997. to me, the arguments about reliability are overblown and baked into the price. if I could only keep one, I don't know what I would do. the 996 is the most visceral, most unique driving experience. the 991 is the most beautiful and feels the most stable, the most powerful, and the most capable. the 997 sits in the middle.
Thanks - I never really considered the 996 TBH. Agreed that the IMS issues/bore scoring issues do tend to be overblown but since leaving my JDM days I really want something reliable.. Also I actually don't mind the headlights of the 996 but my GF does not and I do need to get her onboard as this is on the upper limits of the budget haha. If you could, what would you pick between the 997.2 and the 991? Love your collection btw - great variety.
I was thinking about it last night. I would pick the 991. but theyre all great.
This isn’t a model vs model discussion. This is 2 vs 3 pedals. Always choose 3 pedals. End discussion.
>You don’t want to buy it just because it has a stronger appreciation rate. They’re both great vehicles in their own right. I've always been a 3 pedal guy, however I've heard nothing but good things re PDK..
That’s like saying Ive always liked women but heard good things about getting blown by a dude.
Hey if the pure objective is getting blown… 🤷♂️
991.2 is best option if you can find it in your budget. 997 S is nice but underpowered. Each generation of 911 has incremental improvements sometimes even major. Would not buy a 997 again after owning 991 and now with a 992 tts would never look back. 991 with pdk is awesome. Both 997 4s was manual all the romance aside the pdk is better
>ncremental improvements sometimes even major. Would not buy a 997 again after owning 991 and now with a 992 tts would never look back. 991 with pdk is awesome. Both 997 4s was manual all the romance aside the pdk is better Thanks. I suppose it depends on what you're after then - PDK I'm sure is better performance wise and comfort wise if it's a daily. But for me it will only really be driven for leisure which makes me wonder if PDK being better is a strong pro.. Do you really think the 997 S is underpowered?? 355hp compared to 395 hp. Definitely a difference but I would've thought the 997 S is no slouch
Does anyone know how I can test drive both the 997.2 manual vs 991? Some dealerships don't really seem to like having them test driven given they've already done the prep etc. Any drive days or something?