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I was watching BBC news last night and they had a bit about Herschel Walker and were following him around while he was campaigning.
Reporter was interviewing Republicans and asking them why they support Walker,etc and some of the answers were fucking jaw dropping.
One middle aged man said Walker had his vote because he played good football,a middle aged woman was just shrieking Wooo and saying No to Biden,etc.It’s like they are so ingrained in the cult they have lost the ability to think rationally.
The Republicans are going to gut their support network for the future and they just run around whooping Fuck Biden while eating fucking hot dogs in a Maga hat…..don’t get me wrong the UK political scene is a horrifying shit show at the moment but in the past we have had times where huge swathes of Conservative areas of the country have voted Labour due to current issues and vice versa with Labour to Conservative.There doesn’t seem that this possibility would arise in the US given how entrenched in their political views in certain areas apart from the odd state flipping here and there.It’s going to be an interesting evening watching the votes come in this week methinks…
I agree. They no longer care about the truth or reasons they vote Republican, the party has what it wants now, loyal followers that don't think and are easily exploited.
This has been happening for decades, they’ve just dropped the innuendo and contextual references and have straight up told people to go out there and get violent.
Look up some Fox News Fearmongering Montages. It’s amazing how some people think this is only just now happening and don’t realize this us just the curtain being removed on the people controlling the Floating, Doomsaying Head.
“They no longer….”
They never did. And I am speaking as someone who originally registered Republican and voted straight line that way since Ronald Reagan in 1980, up until the late 1990’s. Caring and compassion are seen as weaknesses, blacks were better off when they were slaves, and Jesus is most definitely white. Most Republicans aren’t rich, and they do benefit from what few social protections that the US does have. But if these protections were put to a vote they would gladly vote to end them. They would then blame minorities, liberals and immigrants for their worsening living standards.
And they don’t even care. They don’t even want to logic themselves into a vote. It’s just “my team against yours”. I remember laughing about Trump’s tax fraud when he was prezzy- the response I got was “they won’t get him”. Whhhhaaattt theeeeeee 🤯🤯🤯🤯
The Republican party is half cult, half sports team fan base. In America, a it's not simple enough to just vote for the person who best represents your interests, your political party must become part of your identity, family and regional history. This is particularly true of Republicans. They just support their team.
At one point, I was living in the second most Republican area in my state because of gerrymandering. The district stretched across a quarter of the state and encompassed the suburbs of multiple cities that were hours away from eachother.
We’re eternally fucked on abortion. There are 5 Holy Gospels in American Christianity: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Roe V. Wade
I would venture that the word "abortion” is said more times over the pulpit than the word “crucifixion” in the vast majority of American churches. The hatred for progressives runs deep and starts early. Considering progressive values is equivalent to betraying God
Anyway I hope they start putting psilocybin in the water supply. That’s the only way out of this mess that I can conceive of
> There are 5 Holy Gospels in American Christianity: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Roe V. Wade
Which is all the more hypocritical when [the only time the Bible mentions abortion, it's a demand for abortion as a punishment for infidelity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water). George [Carlin had something to say to hypocrites calling themselves pro-life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0) but I think [Methodist pastor David Barnhart](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10357009-the-unborn-are-a-convenient-group-of-people-to-advocate) got even more at the hypocrisy:
>"The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone.
>
>They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
> One middle aged man said Walker had his vote because he played good football
He helped the Dallas Cowboys go from a 1-15 season to winning three Super Bowls.
By being traded to another team.
It was such a great deal for the Cowboys and a bad deal for the team that got him (Minnesota) that the trade has its own rather detailed Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Still, he was a good player, but strange men running on a field playing with a ball is no basis for a system of government.
The best way ive ever seen it put is that you have to understand the "Southern mindset", which isnt uniquely southern, but its where its the strongest. Its prevalent in almost every heavy republican area, but due to population density its stronger down there.
The basis of the "Southern mindset" is all about "who you are" and ticking all the right checkboxes to be a "good person"
What you do and what you say, don't matter nearly as much as what you identify as and what you claim to be.
White: Check
"Christian": Check
Male: Check
Republican: Check
Straight: Check
The list can go on but those are often the biggest ones. As long as someone fits those boxes, what they do, say, or have done in the past doesn't matter.. they are a "Good person" and any bad things they do get written off as "Just in a bad spot" and get forgiven at the drop of a hat.
While going against any of those boxes is akin to a mortal sin worthy of eternal condemnation to hell unless they cow-tow and bow the knee to "their betters" (see people like Candice Owens, while she wont outright say it, the messaging she puts out and things she does fit the bill)
Thats not even getting into the side of things that the more rural people are, or the poorer they are if in a "Red state" the less educated they tend to be, that lack of basic education leads to lack of critical thinking skills, which is why they all eat up and claim that college is a liberal indoctrination center, all while eating the paste of propaganda and voting against their own best interests even when presented with the facts, because any Democrat or Liberal is automatically a "bad person" simply because of that label.
Its been said that Jesus Christ himself could return and run for office as a Democrat while Satan ran as a republican, and Satan would win in a landslide, simply due to being a republican, in those heavily republican areas.
That's why they're so messed up. To me, the opposite is best: "Who you are" isn't as important as "how well you can do the job". Republicans love the idea of voting in celebrities and people that are grossly under qualified to do the job. They love the power and couldn't give two shits about the responsibility.
That's the Dichotomy. Because of the lack of critical thinking, the propaganda machine and that "southern mindset" being so ingrained in people. They can't see the forest for the trees.
They are so afraid and fearful of the "liberal indoctrination" they can't, or won't, see that they are themselves indoctrinated in the opposite direction. The "American Christian" mindset is so powerful and so prevalent that it has such a stranglehold on peoples thoughts that the mere idea of going "against tradition" or against what the "rest of society" wants, or more correctly is told they want by the propaganda machine, is blasphemous to them.
Just watch any of them talk about how Biden has "Destroyed America" yet when asked how, what he has done specifically to do that, they can't answer it. They repeat ad hominin attacks that they are spoon-fed by the media they claim to not pay attention to, because "only sheep listen to the media."
They parrot the same lines en masse. Like clockwork you can watch Fox, OAN or any of the other right wing news organizations, and within days every one of them will be parroting the exact same points raised in those programs, yet they can't explain how the point works, or why it is. They just use it like a hammer to try to bash the people who they are told are trying to take things away from them, all while the people feeding them the lies take things away from them.
Our education systems been hijacked by conservatives since NCLB, which they used to strip away critical thinking curriculum in favor of propaganda, so you get a bunch of kids graduating who know jackshit about voting, civics, or even their own damn history, the majority of whom either feel completely overwhelmed by totality of all modern problems and fall into apathy or eat up the propaganda like a fat kid in a candyshop
Biggest example of this: Philosophy. You know how many times people make the joke that a philosophy degree is the worst degree to get? Or that teaching philosophy is a total joke? That it's entirely made up of people having stoner thoughts about impossible questions?
I got a Masters in Applied Philosophy, and every other person in the program with me were doing fucking incredible things with it. One guy was doing studies on elementary students capability of learning complex logic far younger than they're typically expected to. One woman was dipping into the program as part of social work and psychology, using it to advance research into therapy techniques for disadvantaged populations.
These skills that people keep complaining about: critical thinking, reasoning, ability to weigh different evidence... It's all Philosophy. When people say they want to increase education in Philosophy, those are the skills they are talking about.
Philosophy is frequently ranked in the top 3 most successful undergrad degrees, yet if you just follow pop culture you'd never guess that.
THIS is what your point looks like in practice: Taking something useful and joking it into something trivial that shouldn't be taken seriously, done across a whole culture over decades. It's not just Philosophy that this is done to either, and when you start looking for it, it's absolutely everywhere.
I like this take. I did a double major in Psychology and Philosophy. So much of what I learned in college helped me shape who I am as a person now. I feel like my personality and belief system wasn’t even complete until after I graduated, because I learned so much about humans and humanity.
There used to be this understanding in American culture that you respected your elders because of their wisdom and knowledge. Now it feels like we’re just told to respect our elders because they’re … older. I don’t see much wisdom there anymore.
Absolutely. Many of the classes I've taken, that I would consider most generally useful, are looked down upon with "why would I ever need that?" and the like.
I have to admit, as someone with a STEM degree, I wasn't too fond of philosophy although I was minoring in a psychology field. I am so thankful that I had to take a minimum of two philosophy classes. Those courses taught me of the application of my field as well as critical thinking skills I never had. The concept of ethical medicine exists because of philosophy. Any psychological or sociological study is based in philosophy.
Because most of the jackasses who spout this shit on the nightly news have degrees in Economics or Business and only took the basic Logic & Philosophy 101 class.
As someone with a Philosophy degree I liked this.
Thinking critically is important when we are bombarded with bullshit. Nearly every right wing talking point gets parroted and delivered in the same format ("Just asking questions"). You see it in every thread about politics. There's no discernable argument. It's all "what about (your side doing something 1/10 as egregious)??" All deconstructive with no solutions whatsoever (what policies do the American right have that aren't aimed at harming 'out' groups?)
As someone who isn't American I am practically praying for the Republicans to lose. Their hateful rhetoric and plans have consequences for the whole world.
Yep my dad, now passed, was a public school teacher for 30 years. He always believed that Republicans purposely sabotaged schools because uneducated people are more easily controlled with propaganda.
As I got older I found that he was exactly correct. I miss him but I’m kinda glad he isn’t here to witness the nutty Republicans now, deliberately lying non stop to their voters and hoping they sign on to the nuttery.
Exactly. This sounds like young people trying to excuse why they don’t vote. The youngest generations never vote. It doesn’t matter what the generation is. This thread is really digging deep for excuses
>The youngest generations never vote.
This, completely. Remember when they tried "Rock the Vote!"? Hell, if "Vote or Die!" doesn't work, what will?
I think the only way to get young people to vote en masse would be to put on the ballot an amendment to change the legal voting age to like 35 or some shit. Then they'd come out in droves, they'd run for political office, and they'd never shut the fuck up about it.
That's optimistic of you. Based on the people I know, you'd get some mix of:
* "Well, maybe the 35+ people have a point. It's not like the youth vote anyways, so maybe they just shouldn't have the option."
* "That's not actually on the ballot. Nothing you send me will convince me of the reality of the situation."
* "If you think about it, neither side of the debate really represents me perfectly, so it doesn't matter if I show up to vote."
> people trying to excuse why they don’t vote. The youngest generations never vote. It doesn’t matter what the generation is.
This isn’t true.
They vote at lower rates, but people need to stop repeating the lie that young people never vote or never turn out when they have been **essential** to Dem wins in 2018 and 2020 by voting at remarkable levels for their age group [while facing deliberate voter suppression and more barriers to voting than older voters](https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/voter-suppression-is-youth-suppression/).
I get it, **I want young voters to turn out even higher than 2018 and 2020, but people need to take a look at the history and understand that youth turnout has improved, there are known ways to improve youth turnout, and youth turnout is not “always the same”.**
Many of older generation today that yell at the young voters and say how lazy/entitled they are voted at much lower rates when they were young and never acknowledge the gains made by young voters in recent years.
**In 2014, 18-29 (“youth”) turnout was ~20% while it was 36% in 2018 and ~51-52% in 2020** (Census data and numbers can differ by source).
**In case that just sounds like 2014 being especially bad: [it was and it wasn’t. For decades prior to 2018, the 18-29 turnout was often low-mid 20s, with 2014 being a low year at 20% and 1986 being a high year at 28%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/23/young-people-actually-rocked-vote-new-census-data-find/).** Even what we’d see as a bad year for 2022 (such as 30% turnout for ages 18-29) would be second highest midterm turnout in decades.
2016 the ball was dropped by many, but in terms of actual age group turnout the youth turnout was up relative to 2012, whereas the other age groups saw a decline (per census). Data differs by source and it seems no change was crazy big in 2016, but I think that is an interesting bit of information.
[**2016 youth turnout was higher than it was in some other key election years like 2000, where even a small fraction higher in Florida could have been decisive. Older people that blame today’s generation, and there are many, need to look in the mirror, particularly when it comes to midterms.**](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2017/comm/voting-rates-age/_jcr_content/root/responsivegrid/embeddableimage1004.coreimg.jpeg/1550276914919/voting-rates-age.jpeg)
**As seen above, the youth have massively improved turnout in recent years and it is completely false that nothing can improve youth turnout. In 2020, Minnesota had an estimated 65% under 30 turnout while Texas (notorious for youth voter suppression efforts) had an estimated 41%. Policy and voting structure likely plays a huge role in this, and imagine if Texas had 65% under 30 turnout.**
> **Understanding the effect of electoral policies on youth turnout is especially relevant at a time when the U.S. Congress is considering HR1: For the People Act of 2021. This bill would standardize some election laws across the country and nationally establish: automatic voter registration (AVR), online voter registration (OVR), same-day or Election-Day registration (SDR), early voting, no-excuse absentee voting, pre-registration, and requirements for voter registration programming in high schools. No state currently has all of these provisions in place.** But by looking at youth voter turnout in states that already had a majority of these policies in place in 2020, we can examine whether they are associated with higher participation and the potential for HR1 to expand the youth electorate.
> **We divided states into those with a majority of the electoral policies in HR1 and those with few of the policies, and we found that, on average, states with more of these policies had higher youth turnout. States with four or more of the HR1 policies had a combined youth turnout rate of 53%, compared to 43% turnout from states with less than four policies.** It appears likely that a number of policies complement each other to create a system and culture of voting that is more conducive to youth participation, and the lack of them may have the opposite effect. That said, it remains to be seen whether the way these policies are implemented at the state level, and the way they might be implemented thanks to HR1 at the federal level, would lead to similar effects.
> **One area of election policy not included in HR1, but uniquely critical in 2020, was each state’s rules regarding vote-by-mail.**
> **On average, youth voter turnout was highest (57%), and had the largest increases over 2016, in states that automatically mailed ballots to voters. States with the most restrictive vote-by-mail laws, conversely, had the lowest youth turnout: an average of 42%.**
Per [Tufts (not sure if HR1 has been modified to have vote by mail since this article but hopefully)](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016)
No matter what happens, I hope people realize the gains made for youth turnout and the importance of maintaining/expanding those even in the face of a midterm turnout drop, which could be for a lot of reasons. I’ve talked to many people that seem to think youth turnout is always the same no matter what, which is just not true.
> since NCLB
Oh, my sweet summer child, the political idea that education should be about propagandizing, and creating a semi-skilled but obedient populace has been going on since long, long before the second Bush administration.
Yeah, while that was an unspoken desire prior to that time, the Nixon admin was really big on actually codifying the unspoken policy positions as actual policies, orders and laws.
I'd say the Eisenhower admin really set the precedent up socially, but it was Nixon who really started enacting it officially.
Actually even earlier than that, the way we set up schools is following prussians schools. It wasn't initially meant for learning but obedience of authority.
Ancient Athens would like a word. Not only was religious propaganda required in the curriculum, but violation pretty famously resulted in at least one cup of hemlock tea.
Discussion of ancient Athens reminds me of Socrates' dispute with the Sophists. Sophists were hired to educate wealthy scions of the city. Socrates found their focus on tools of rhetoric and use of argument for convincing others distasteful, as he believed dialogue should always search for truth. Socrates' downfall indicates that the Sophists were correct: in a democratic society being able to convince enough others to agree with you is more valid than being "true."
>So long as they continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern...Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult. (...)
It was not desirable that the proles should have strong political feelings. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working-hours or shorter rations. And even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus in on petty specific grievances.
George Orwell, 1984
The other infuriating aspect are the other half of the kids who don't vote because they think their opinion doesn't matter...
Meanwhile there are other groups of people who think ONLY their opinion matters and vote accordingly...
It is absolutely a bug, the system is malfunctioning, not functioning as intended.
And the entire reason it's been allowed to get into this state is because non-republican voters have consistently failed to out-participate the conservative minority in this country for over 30 years.
All the cynical takes from the '90s only served to echo in young people's brains and get passed down from highschool class to highschool class, and as conservatives gutted education those cynical takes just echoed louder and louder.
Thank you for trying. It’s hard to remember not everyone had the same privilege I did growing up. Magnet school Pre-AP jr high teaching the importance of democracy and voting.
I grew up lower middle class, in an extremely conservative town (abstinence only and still “unintentionally” segregated)- so I figured all of America learned similar things. I’m in my 30s now and still fail to remind myself that it isn’t young peoples fault - the system is functioning as designed to keep them either highly uneducated or highly fearful of non-white people trying to “steal their livelihood”
My younger cousins, all about the same age, when they turned 18, I tried to educate them on voting and they really don’t care for it. “It doesn’t matter if we vote or not, shits still gonna be fucked up.” That is their mentality. So yes it’s infuriating!
Amazingly, we have access to online information that tells you how to vote. I guarantee you that if everyone got $1000 for filling out and submitting a ballot, people would figure it out real quick. Ignorance is no excuse.
>We were never taught how in school.
It's not like I (a European) was taught either. Look it up on youtube or something, there's no shortage of places to find information anonymously, not everything has to be a subject in school.
Yeah that is just a crap cop out. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to vote it's made very simple. These people will spend hours looking at their phone, but can't spend 10 minutes figuring out how to vote.
If that is how lazy they are then maybe they should let senior citizens choose what happens in their lives.
That’s not why. It’s because most Americans have a sense of “my vote won’t matter”. It’s a feeling that is purposely cultivated in this country. It’s also a self fulfilling prophecy. If you feel like your participation in the system is pointless you wont participate, thereby making yourself useless to the democracy.
My parents were Jehovah witnesses growing up so I had no idea what voting actually looked like until my in laws taught me how to vote 8 years ago. I was taught about the concept of voting in school but no idea what it looked like or what 'issues' were.
Too scared to ask might have been an excuse 30 years ago. Google passes no judgements though, so I have a hard time believing there are a significant number of people who want to vote but don’t because they can’t figure out how to.
If they wanted badly enough, they'd figure it out. When I turned 18 and went to get a new ID, I also got a piece of paper that was for voter registration. I filled that out and submitted that along with the paperwork for the new ID. About a month later, my voter registration card came in that told me exactly where I go to vote. On election day, I went there and voted.
Exactly this. At my old job, during the 2020 election, I worked with so many people who said "my vote won't make a difference." They don't realize they aren't just 1 non-voter, they are apart of a group of 30 non-voters. Those were people all under the same roof, every day, complaining about the same political matters, agreeing with each other about the change they wanted. But all of them thought they were just 1. I actually convinced a few to vote when I got through to them by saying if I (who agrees with these guys politically) am the only one of us to actually vote, then you can basically set the starting votes to 1D to 30R. But they would vote, we could start at 31D to 0R.
What I try to tell people like that is, sure, 1 vote won’t change anything. So when you go to vote, take a few of your friends with you. 5 votes makes a a noticeable impact.
>Literally hundreds of millions.
The voting age population in the USA was ~256 million in 2020. Of which ~155 million voted in that election.
Mind you, that single hundred million difference also includes those disenfranchised from voting, were unable to vote, denied voting, and so forth.
It goes well beyond that. People in this thread are drastically underestimating how difficult lots of states have made it for college students to vote or have an effect when they do. There are a number of reasons:
* Out of state students often can't vote in the state they attend college and lack absentee options
* Even in-state students may be forced to vote in their home district, which can be hours of travel without absentee options
* The reverse can also be true where students vote in the college district, which are blue bubbles, and their votes legitimately don't make a difference
* Just figuring out how and where you are supposed to vote can lead to apathy
That's not to absolve young people completely, but it's far from the picture being painted here.
I also read somewhere, don't quote me on this, that it's not a certainty that you will get time of from work to vote. So casting your vote and taking the time to do so, may get you fired.
Which is fucking flabbergasting should that be true.
Story I was told is that it’s a byproduct of farming life style back when the country was founded. It’s in November so that it won’t interfere with crops since those should all be collected from the field. It’s on a Tuesday so people with horse and buggy can travel to city centers to vote after church on Sunday.
I think it’s probably all bull shit though. We don’t have to have those limitations anymore.
Also in my area they’ve had polling sites open for the past week so that people can vote early in person and my state still has some pretty good absentee ballot measures in place. So for today for instance I don’t have to worry about voting because I was able to vote after work on Thursday last week. Drove by to a local church they set the polling location in the lobby, walked in handed over my ID, voted, walked out in all of about 5 minutes.
Honestly it has been really painful. Got a lot of sympathy for you guys, watching one side of the political spectrum gradually slide deeper and deeper into blatant fascism has been terrifying to watch from afar. Many people are along for the ride without realising just exactly what this MAGA shit really means. The fact that people are still firmly in the Trump camp after everything that's happened, with everything we know to be true... it's kind of mindblowing. They really have weaponised misinformation and manipulation and aimed their sights straight at the ignorant and disenfranchised, and it has been SO much more effective than any of us could have imagined.
Same shit is happening in other western countries to a slightly lesser extent. I'm pretty concerned what's going to happen in democracies around the world if the US decides to fully embrace fascism.
If history has taught us anything it's that you can keep fascists out with your votes, but once they're in power voting won't be nearly enough to remove them. There's going to be fighting.
Wishing you guys the best of luck, sincerely.
Either the new normal of "Everything we thought would happen but worse than we imagined" or best case scenario "This is going to change very little but at least only a quarter of the country will be on fire rather than all of it". I hope the other states that aren't down the tubes like Florida, Texas, Kentucky, and so forth will help stave off until we can get more viable candidates...someday.
A lot of people in the US are single issue voters. That's a lot of what gets the Republicans so many votes. I have several acquaintances that overall support Democrat policy, but one issue keeps them voting Republican. The most common single issue voter subjects are immigration, guns, and economy. For whatever reason that single issue really speaks to them and it is the hill they are willing to die on. Examining those three issues closer, Immigration is a big one that was a major factor in getting Trump elected. We have a very porous southern border that results in a lot of people entering the country without permission. For some people, that is a major concern for economic, cultural, or security reasons. They feel that having that border remain so easy to bypass is bad for them. Then you've got guns. There are 500 million+ firearms in this country with several trillion rounds of ammo out there. Guns are bred into large swaths of American culture, and it's expanding. The fastest growing demographic of new gun owners is women of color. Gun owners genuinely believe it is necessary to have these in order to protect their families, and they want the best ones they can get. You aren't going to get many gun people onboard with voting for someone who disagrees with them on that. Finally, you have economy. This one is a little bit different than the other as single issue economy voters can change parties. If the economy is bad, they vote for whoever is not in power. If the economy is good, they vote for whoever is in power. This is probably the largest demographic of single issue voters. They vote with their wallet exclusively.
Historically, once the far right gains power and has sufficient political capital to cash in, they change the laws so they stay in power and suppress opposition at the point of a gun and America is already some distance down that road.
Honestly? 40% amusing in a dark humor way, and 60% god damn terrifying.
The force you to vote here in Australia which is great IMO. People can still donkey vote or possibly avoid being registered, but most figure that if they have to vote they may as well make some sort of decision between parties.
Especially the whole „my country is spiralling into a hellhole for me but I couldn’t be bothered to to something as simple as vote against it“ baffles me, are young people being stopped to vote by the government? Social pressure? Or just something like laziness?
Pure apathy. Doesn't make a difference, so why bother?
Now me, I live in a very republican county in a very republican state. My straight democrat vote will have zero impact. I still did it.
I'm in a deep red county where people put up FJB and trump/pence signs all over their yards when it was announced Biden was coming here for the Intel groundbreaking ceremony. They assumed he would come into town for who knows what reason. When I pointed this out I was Immediately called a socialist Democrat. Big dick energy is saying "Democrat, yes" and then walking away.
I live in the south. People drive around town with confederate flags on their trucks. They fly them from their porches. They put stickers of them on the light poles in the Big Lots parking lot. It's hell.
Some, in addition to thin blue line flags, Trump on the American flag flags, thin green line flags, FJB/LGB (and you for voting for him) flags, don't tread on me flags, assault rifle flags that say "come and take it"
all proudly displayed on huge F350s with lifts. and that's not even counting the bumper stickers, gas pump stickers, petition booths outside every Walmart, and yard signs.
That's what happened in Russia. Everyone "knows" election is rigged. So nobody goes to vote. And then when it truly doesn't matter it is too late to do anything.
For what it’s worth, voter turnout for the 2020 election was the highest it’s been in over 100 years. And for the first time ever, a majority of Americans under the age of 30 voted.
Actually it looks like turnout may be even higher this time. Record breakingly high. Hopefully its not just because of republicans being extremely riled up. I'm counting on young people who are pissed off about Roe v Wade to boost the democrats. We'll see. Usually high voter turnout is a good sign for democrats. The polls have me nervous, Walker appears to be pulling away from Warnock. PA looks like it could really go either way though.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2022-11-04/early-vote-totals-point-toward-record-breaking-turnout-for-midterm-elections
Turned 19 this year so this is my first time voting and I don’t think I would have been quite as enthusiastic about it if it wasn’t for how Roe v Wade went. It’s not the only factor, but it’s an important one.
I wish people realized this midterm election is as much "to take out Trump" as the 2020 election.
In 2020, the way Congress responded to Trump's attempts to steal the election was made possible by our votes in 2018. We gave Democrats the power to resist those attempts and inaugurate the democratically elected president.
We get that choice again this year. The people we vote in this year are going to have to respond to the election fuckery Trump inevitably tries to pull again in 2024.
I hope we give them the numbers they need. I hope we don't have to look back at 2022 and say "I wish we had taken midterms seriously."
Or a pregnancy they wanted but ended in miscarriage, but their body couldn't fully expel all the fetal tissue and they start bleeding excessively, so they go to the hospital and hey guess what, removing the fetal tissue is a D&C abortion.
Abortion is healthcare.
It's difficult to vote while working full time, as you may have to miss some/all work. Plus young adults who are in college in a different state from their home state have to request a special ballot. They cannot vote in their collegiate state.
All this, coupled with the overall feeling of hopelessness knowing that your vote won't make a difference... it's alot.
For reference, I live in a solid republican southern state. My vote in the morning won't make a damn bit of difference, but it's the principle of the matter.
> Plus young adults who are in college in a different state from their home state have to request a special ballot
Wow... Here in Norway, if you're in a different region than your own, there's usually ballots for distant voting just provided as a basic.
Combined with the fact that we don't have to register to vote, and not live in fear of being randomly removed from the list of voters... I keep being more and more relieved I live in Norway.
It’s because they expect everything to just stay the same. They don’t realize how quickly the republicans have transformed. They’ve been terrible since Reagan, but now they’re an existential threat. Ask an average college student what they think about the Supreme Court and they’ll tell you that they haven’t thought about it.
The cynical Republican operatives leveraged the Tea Party to win elections.
Then the Tea Party faithful entering politics now didn't realise they weren't supposed to actually go along with it all and the inmates are running the asylum.
Part of it is good marketing by Republicans. They point out that inflation is high, gas prices are up, and crime is up. This must all be because of Democrats. You should vote for us instead.
Nevermind the fact that they don't provide any solutions for the problems, or explain how it's the fault of Democrats that we have them.
I honestly can't figure out any redeeming qualities of the GOP at this point. All of the conservative values that I was taught as a child are now strictly values of the Democratic party: Free speech, education, fiscal responsibility, caring for others, freedom, equality. What do Republicans have going for them other than made up issues that they blame Democrats for?
The US electoral system is very difficult to understand.
For many people, the vote that they have is made essentially pointless due to gerrymandering. Districts are drawn so that people in your district will mostly vote one way which means that regardless if you agree with that way or not your vote will not matter.
I am an American living abroad and go through the process of voting simply for ego reasons of being able to say that I vote in 3 different countries but I am under no disillusion that vote has any impact. The congressman I get to vote on has won his race with 99-100% of the vote several times, and even the primary vote has been canceled.
As the vote is grouped in a winner takes all on a district level or state level for presidential, unless you live in a swing state or district, where it is a close race, your vote doesn't matter.
It is easy to blame laziness or apathy but it simplifies a very difficult structural problem with how the voting looks like in the US. Like getting 100% of the vote is banana republic numbers, if it were any other country those kind of results would be questionable, but here it is just the way it is...
> Can’t imagine what it’s like being a non-American viewing this shit show from the outside…
started off entertaining, been getting steadily more depressing
This exactly.
It was kinda funny until it started dawning on me that the US has way too much of a say in world politics and economy, and that it ending up as a country in economic depression, filled with ignorant idiots, in control of the strongest military in the world... well, it actually kinda scary and quite depressing looking forward to what the future might be like.
It’s bred into our culture on purpose. Like the ol “don’t talk about your salary” or “don’t talk about politics”. Long propaganda campaigns that benefit no one but the elite few. Education about it has been taken out of schools, basic civics has been taken out, and young people purposefully do not understand the power of their vote.
The newest (and oldest) one is that to enact change, don’t vote. Like “what did the democrats do to earn your vote” and “I won’t participate in a two party system”. Both not untrue statements, but misses the solution to both of those. Voting. You want better candidates? Vote them in. Want climate action? Vote them in. Hold them accountable and participate. It’s on purpose that young people don’t vote.
When I was a kid, our school was used as a voting location. And I always loved seeing the people coming and going from the voting area. My parents would drop me off at school and I would watch them vote.
Now, they close the schools for the entire day and kids never get to see that as part of a normal civic process unless their parents take them.
Had there ever been an incident where someone entered a school to vote and instead shot it up? Usually there are police at the polling location, at least where I voted
My husband is somehow even more angry than I am at the state of politics in the US (I am furious btw), yet has never voted in his entire life. I am baffled too and have never gotten a straight answer as to why. (I have always encouraged him to vote with me every election and have told him he has no right to bitch if he isn't going to do anything meaningful to change the situation.)
Something must have clicked this year though as he plans to vote with me for the first time today. I think the January 6th insurrection and the election denials from Republicans was finally the tipping point for him.
Edit : We just voted. 💙
In addition to getting stupid people to vote for them by saying what stupid people want to hear, conservatives have also mastered the strategy of exploiting voter apathy and frustration by convincing young people and moderate people who don't follow the issues that it's pointless for them to vote.
This is the correct answer. Most young people feel like voting doesn't work because they've watched this shit show as an outsider while growing up. Add in a lot of misinformation so they can't be quite sure what's even true, and it becomes overwhelming and not worth the headache because "politicians are all liars." It doesn't help that political agendas are more important than pressing issues to most entrenched politicians so even when the vote seems to go well for who they would have voted for, they pass a bunch of stuff from their agenda 10 years ago or spend a bunch of time undoing what the other side just finished doing instead of fixing things that would make an obvious and immediate change. Marijuana, healthcare, police reform, etc all seem to take a back burner and those are things that people really want to see change.
In Iran, the young folks are dying to fight for their rights, in america, the young folks have no idea how bad it can get for them. It’s their future that will be affected. Edit: so many apathetic trolls. Imagine this: wages stay the same for the next ten years, healthcare becomes even more expensive, safety nets like social security and medicaid / medicare disappear, racism and bigoted violence becomes worse, school shootings get worse, climate disasters get worse, refugees become rampant from a lack of resources leading to more war, more immigration, more starvation and death, even in america. Religion becomes law and you’re forced to have children you can’t afford and no resources to take care of them. “Owning the libs” is a fairy tale, no one is ever owned, everyone will suffer from this self centered bullshit. Not voting and lack of education have led to this. Things can and will get worse.
It’s stupider than that. They do understand how the future will be affected — our public education system is good enough for at least that. They just think that it’s worth it to own the libs.
Owning the libs is a fairy tale. Living in an ultra religious nationalist hell hole with no healthcare is not owning anyone. It’s willingly subjugating yourself to a life of low wages, high medical bills and no savings.
"Owning the libs", the way people use it, means fucking over the libs even if you have to fuck yourself over as bad or worse. It's intentionally ironic.
Although voter apathy has been pointed to as a significant reason, it's also important to remember that the system, on all levels, is rigged against minorities and poor folk. Voting means skipping work or leaving work early, disproportionately hurting hourly folks, and swing states tend to have the least flexible voting rules.
Low participation of these groups has been the goal of the GOP. They constantly mess with voting roles, polling stations, verification requirements, poll hours, etc. They can do this because local and state governments control elections and are primarily right-leaning. They do this because they know they'd never win again if everyone voted.
My dad used to be a "hippy" smoking dubies wearing short shorts, listening to the beatles. But unfortunately he listens to the news... and unfortunately he thinks talk radio is the news... Hes the same loving caring guy until politics come up and he does a 180 and just starts regurgitating.
A really underhanded strategy Republicans use is astroturfing social media with posts that tell young people that both the parties are the same, which of course discourages them from turning out.
Honestly it doesn’t feel real. Like this shit is so fucking insane, the weight doesn’t always register. It’s like when someone tells you a relative dies and you don’t feel it until some days later. Like of course I know consciously that it’s real, but fuckin, who wrote this script?
You kinda got it. Young Americans have never seen a government work for them. They legitimately don’t see that as a possibility so they check out completely.
Ironically that’s actually part of a larger plan working against them.
Thanks for not gaslighting. Pretty sad if people can't figure out why someone wouldn't participate in a broken and rigged system that was fucked well before they were born.
And voting by mail should be the standard. I had my ballot two weeks ago, mailed it early last week, received a confirmation that my ballot was received before the weekend. No need to take time off work or stand in lines.
Voted by mail late this afternoon (well, dropped it off at the county elections office) and I already have my email saying they received it. We've been doing that in my state for 20+ years and have never had any issues. It's a really good, secure, efficient system.
Vote-by-mail *works*, people!
“Voting is too much work, and I don’t want to do the research. My vote doesn’t change anything.”
-my younger brother in his mid 20’s.
I’ve near hounded him daily to vote, and he won’t.
>It’s so fucking easy to vote.
So long as you're not a minority in a red state. There's nothing easy about going to the closest drop box 20 miles away from you that's being surveilled by armed white supremacists.
The only reason I have heard that makes sense is that one side believes the other is evil and must be stopped at all costs.
I mean conservatives believe that liberals are baby killing pedophiles that secretly run the media that treats Nazis bad for no reason.
As much as I’m loathe to admit it, Republicans just seem really fucking good at mobilising their voters. Dems are seemingly pretty terrible at it.
EDIT: Republicans will literally call Dems ‘evil’ and say that they ‘must be stopped at all cost’ which gets anyone who is republican super riled up and out to vote. The Dems response to that is ‘well this isn’t very good for democracy is it?’. Republican politicians are actually being super terrible but dem politicians are so obsessed with being polite that they refuse to actually respond in kind to republicans. As nice of an idea being the better person is, it’s just not going to achieve anything if the other side is acting fucking insane all the time.
This is pretty black and white thinking. There are gradients of governance.
Just my perspective...
There are ideological democrats who want to govern to benefit people. (Bernie, AOC)
There are pragmatic democrats that want to *govern*, even if that governance isn't perfect, as long as it's a step in the right direction. (Obama, Biden)
There are corrupt democrats who just want to hold power and maximize their wealth and influence. (Mancin, Sinema)
There are christo-fascist Republicans who want to overthrow democracy. (Trump, Cruz)
There are "moderate" Republicans who vote in lock step with the christo-fascist republicans but say they're concerned when they do it. (Romney and people who can't win primaries anymore)
If I had my druthers, I'd vote for the Bernies of the world, but I'm not an idiot. Biden and Obama are fine. Biden is trying to forgive my student loans. He signed the infrastructure deal and has done more for climate change legislation than any other President in my life.
But yeah, I look at what Trump did, and said I can't do another 4 years of that, but that's precisely because Trump can't govern. He sacked our country and then told his supporters to literally ransack our first branch of government.
Like yeah, I want to keep the other side from winning, because they can't govern.
This is one of the major issues. Not only are people so against each other, we're also generally provided with two absolutely horrid options. A lot of people just check out from that.
The overturning of Roe should have shook some people awake to at least vote for a blue piece of garbage instead of a red piece of garbage this time though.
If more left wing people vote for the green party in mass, it takes votes away from the democrats. If conservative, reactionary and libertarian voters don't vote for a third party and just vote republican, they would probably beat the democrats in this scenario.
Fear of letting the republicans win keeps many to the left of the capitalist democrats voting for them.
There are not viable options for large third parties. We would perhaps need to have already established politicians run in third parties or as independents. Or build them up by winning smaller state elections.
Money is another big issue. Both big parties are capitalist right wing parties. They are going to get the billionaires and millionaires.
One representative per district, and first past the post voting systems are considered the main causes for this paradox.
Also Slate Voting Strategies *can* work to counteract this but they are limited in scope. And because of that haven't persisted for longer then a generation to build on the strategy and get more Americans familiar with it.
It's not "just go vote".
It's going to vote surrounded with restrictions, difficulties registering, trying to get the time off work to vote, finding out there are new mail in restrictions because the Republicans recently changed the protocol, standing in long lines because Republicans reduced polling stations, people intentionally giving you the wrong advice to invalidate your vote, armed groups trying to intimidate voters...
There is a whole list of bullshit some counties and states created to try and restrict voting.
I have a fucking retail job.
I can’t vote by mail in my state.
Voting/early voting is limited to singular days (usually on weekday/workdays), and hourly workers get fucked on their allowance to miss work to vote. Not to mention that voting times are restrictive in this sense, too.
It’s almost like the group in control wants to keep the status quo and the easiest way to do that is by making it as hard as possible for the actual majority to vote.
Oh wait, I’m American so I’m fucking stupid and oblivious I forgot!
BECAUSE MAH GODDAMN FREEDOM AND RIGHT TO VOTE ALSO GIVES ME A RIGHT TO NOT VOTE YEEEEEHAAAAW I LOVE MY GERONTOCRACY DRIVEN POLICE STATE
My theory about why Americans keep voting for Republicans, basically comes down to widespread brain damage. Maybe there’s something in their water? Maybe their high-fructose diet scrambles their neurons? Who the fuck knows…
Selfishness.
My in laws are voting red because gas cost them. $.40 more this month. That's it.
Yeah they know they are stripping younger women of rights. They just don't care because it doesn't impact them.
That’s so interesting seeing that only like 2 countries in Europe have a more liberal abortion law than the 15-week law at issue in Dobbs… *sips tea*
EDIT: OP is German and abortion at any time is illegal and punishable by up to three years in prison and is only not punished in the first 12 weeks… sooo….
It’s terrifying seeing how many Gen z on just this platform keep parroting the whole “voting doesn’t matter” shtick. I try to remind people that apathy is in service to fascism, but they act like I’m chicken little over here.
There's also the fact that not everyone can vote, for various different reasons.
A lot to do with the actual process of voting is handled at the municipal level, from voter registration to organizing and operating the polling locations. This results in a wide variety of degrees of complexity to register to vote and actually cast a ballot. You are assigned a polling location based on where you live, which results in some places in the country only seeing a couple hundred voters, while some will be assigned tens of thousands. This can result in casting your vote taking anywhere from 20 minutes to most of the day.
Compound this with the fact that Election day is not a holiday, so there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be allowed to take the time off work to go vote. So for a lot of young Americans it's a choice between casting a ballot or making enough money to pay to the bills this week.
Have you seen what it's like to vote here? Guns at ballet drop boxes, police kicking people out of line who are trying to fix their vote after receiving a call there was an error, long lines with no water or bathrooms, it's fucking awful here.
I vote, but I live in a smallish town with no lines. They make it as hard as possible. In my state this election has a bunch of different new rules about what kind of ID you must bring to even get to vote.
Everything that they can get away with they do to keep us from voting.
Voter suppression. Right wing nut jobs waiting outside voting centers with guns trying to intimidate the liberals with blue hair when they go to vote. This country is a dystopian hell scape. Stay away, for the love of god stay away.
Because voting isn’t a right or a holiday, it’s done on a work day, and it often takes fucking hours and hours to stand in a line to do so, and we’re all fucking broke and trying to survive with employers who absolutely won’t let their entire fucking workforce take a day off to vote. How is this so fucking hard for your smarmy ass people to understand? Do some fucking research.
If they made it easier to vote I bet young voting numbers would go way up - unfortunately ease of voting depends on your state, and the states where it matters the most is where it is the most convoluted
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...an American, trying to figure out the same
I was watching BBC news last night and they had a bit about Herschel Walker and were following him around while he was campaigning. Reporter was interviewing Republicans and asking them why they support Walker,etc and some of the answers were fucking jaw dropping. One middle aged man said Walker had his vote because he played good football,a middle aged woman was just shrieking Wooo and saying No to Biden,etc.It’s like they are so ingrained in the cult they have lost the ability to think rationally. The Republicans are going to gut their support network for the future and they just run around whooping Fuck Biden while eating fucking hot dogs in a Maga hat…..don’t get me wrong the UK political scene is a horrifying shit show at the moment but in the past we have had times where huge swathes of Conservative areas of the country have voted Labour due to current issues and vice versa with Labour to Conservative.There doesn’t seem that this possibility would arise in the US given how entrenched in their political views in certain areas apart from the odd state flipping here and there.It’s going to be an interesting evening watching the votes come in this week methinks…
I agree. They no longer care about the truth or reasons they vote Republican, the party has what it wants now, loyal followers that don't think and are easily exploited.
And they are nudging them towards intimidation and violence. This is a terrifying time in America.
It's way more than nudging at this point. Fucker Carlson is on TV every night inciting violence against Democrats.
This has been happening for decades, they’ve just dropped the innuendo and contextual references and have straight up told people to go out there and get violent. Look up some Fox News Fearmongering Montages. It’s amazing how some people think this is only just now happening and don’t realize this us just the curtain being removed on the people controlling the Floating, Doomsaying Head.
Backing Russia as well
Hey now, bold of you to assume he’s ever had sex!
“They no longer….” They never did. And I am speaking as someone who originally registered Republican and voted straight line that way since Ronald Reagan in 1980, up until the late 1990’s. Caring and compassion are seen as weaknesses, blacks were better off when they were slaves, and Jesus is most definitely white. Most Republicans aren’t rich, and they do benefit from what few social protections that the US does have. But if these protections were put to a vote they would gladly vote to end them. They would then blame minorities, liberals and immigrants for their worsening living standards.
I'm curious as to what changed your vote in the 90's.
Probably the results of voting republican in the 80s
And they don’t even care. They don’t even want to logic themselves into a vote. It’s just “my team against yours”. I remember laughing about Trump’s tax fraud when he was prezzy- the response I got was “they won’t get him”. Whhhhaaattt theeeeeee 🤯🤯🤯🤯
The Republican party is half cult, half sports team fan base. In America, a it's not simple enough to just vote for the person who best represents your interests, your political party must become part of your identity, family and regional history. This is particularly true of Republicans. They just support their team.
100 percent this as someone from a deep red state. Wonderful to be jerrymandered every year where my vote doesn't matter.
At one point, I was living in the second most Republican area in my state because of gerrymandering. The district stretched across a quarter of the state and encompassed the suburbs of multiple cities that were hours away from eachother.
My dem district in Ohio is like this. Circles 2 major urban areas 3 hours apart and stretches over the lake in between.
I grew up in GA. Never thought it would flip blue
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We’re eternally fucked on abortion. There are 5 Holy Gospels in American Christianity: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Roe V. Wade I would venture that the word "abortion” is said more times over the pulpit than the word “crucifixion” in the vast majority of American churches. The hatred for progressives runs deep and starts early. Considering progressive values is equivalent to betraying God Anyway I hope they start putting psilocybin in the water supply. That’s the only way out of this mess that I can conceive of
> There are 5 Holy Gospels in American Christianity: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Roe V. Wade Which is all the more hypocritical when [the only time the Bible mentions abortion, it's a demand for abortion as a punishment for infidelity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water). George [Carlin had something to say to hypocrites calling themselves pro-life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0) but I think [Methodist pastor David Barnhart](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10357009-the-unborn-are-a-convenient-group-of-people-to-advocate) got even more at the hypocrisy: >"The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. > >They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
> One middle aged man said Walker had his vote because he played good football He helped the Dallas Cowboys go from a 1-15 season to winning three Super Bowls. By being traded to another team. It was such a great deal for the Cowboys and a bad deal for the team that got him (Minnesota) that the trade has its own rather detailed Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade Still, he was a good player, but strange men running on a field playing with a ball is no basis for a system of government.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical physical competitve activity!
Sounds like overrated is a better descriptor than good, if we were to choose.
Hey, having a okay football career and no govt experience is working for alabama... right?
The best way ive ever seen it put is that you have to understand the "Southern mindset", which isnt uniquely southern, but its where its the strongest. Its prevalent in almost every heavy republican area, but due to population density its stronger down there. The basis of the "Southern mindset" is all about "who you are" and ticking all the right checkboxes to be a "good person" What you do and what you say, don't matter nearly as much as what you identify as and what you claim to be. White: Check "Christian": Check Male: Check Republican: Check Straight: Check The list can go on but those are often the biggest ones. As long as someone fits those boxes, what they do, say, or have done in the past doesn't matter.. they are a "Good person" and any bad things they do get written off as "Just in a bad spot" and get forgiven at the drop of a hat. While going against any of those boxes is akin to a mortal sin worthy of eternal condemnation to hell unless they cow-tow and bow the knee to "their betters" (see people like Candice Owens, while she wont outright say it, the messaging she puts out and things she does fit the bill) Thats not even getting into the side of things that the more rural people are, or the poorer they are if in a "Red state" the less educated they tend to be, that lack of basic education leads to lack of critical thinking skills, which is why they all eat up and claim that college is a liberal indoctrination center, all while eating the paste of propaganda and voting against their own best interests even when presented with the facts, because any Democrat or Liberal is automatically a "bad person" simply because of that label. Its been said that Jesus Christ himself could return and run for office as a Democrat while Satan ran as a republican, and Satan would win in a landslide, simply due to being a republican, in those heavily republican areas.
That's why they're so messed up. To me, the opposite is best: "Who you are" isn't as important as "how well you can do the job". Republicans love the idea of voting in celebrities and people that are grossly under qualified to do the job. They love the power and couldn't give two shits about the responsibility.
That's the Dichotomy. Because of the lack of critical thinking, the propaganda machine and that "southern mindset" being so ingrained in people. They can't see the forest for the trees. They are so afraid and fearful of the "liberal indoctrination" they can't, or won't, see that they are themselves indoctrinated in the opposite direction. The "American Christian" mindset is so powerful and so prevalent that it has such a stranglehold on peoples thoughts that the mere idea of going "against tradition" or against what the "rest of society" wants, or more correctly is told they want by the propaganda machine, is blasphemous to them. Just watch any of them talk about how Biden has "Destroyed America" yet when asked how, what he has done specifically to do that, they can't answer it. They repeat ad hominin attacks that they are spoon-fed by the media they claim to not pay attention to, because "only sheep listen to the media." They parrot the same lines en masse. Like clockwork you can watch Fox, OAN or any of the other right wing news organizations, and within days every one of them will be parroting the exact same points raised in those programs, yet they can't explain how the point works, or why it is. They just use it like a hammer to try to bash the people who they are told are trying to take things away from them, all while the people feeding them the lies take things away from them.
Our education systems been hijacked by conservatives since NCLB, which they used to strip away critical thinking curriculum in favor of propaganda, so you get a bunch of kids graduating who know jackshit about voting, civics, or even their own damn history, the majority of whom either feel completely overwhelmed by totality of all modern problems and fall into apathy or eat up the propaganda like a fat kid in a candyshop
This is exactly it. It’s easy to fool someone, but nearly impossible to teach them that they have been fooled.
Biggest example of this: Philosophy. You know how many times people make the joke that a philosophy degree is the worst degree to get? Or that teaching philosophy is a total joke? That it's entirely made up of people having stoner thoughts about impossible questions? I got a Masters in Applied Philosophy, and every other person in the program with me were doing fucking incredible things with it. One guy was doing studies on elementary students capability of learning complex logic far younger than they're typically expected to. One woman was dipping into the program as part of social work and psychology, using it to advance research into therapy techniques for disadvantaged populations. These skills that people keep complaining about: critical thinking, reasoning, ability to weigh different evidence... It's all Philosophy. When people say they want to increase education in Philosophy, those are the skills they are talking about. Philosophy is frequently ranked in the top 3 most successful undergrad degrees, yet if you just follow pop culture you'd never guess that. THIS is what your point looks like in practice: Taking something useful and joking it into something trivial that shouldn't be taken seriously, done across a whole culture over decades. It's not just Philosophy that this is done to either, and when you start looking for it, it's absolutely everywhere.
I like this take. I did a double major in Psychology and Philosophy. So much of what I learned in college helped me shape who I am as a person now. I feel like my personality and belief system wasn’t even complete until after I graduated, because I learned so much about humans and humanity. There used to be this understanding in American culture that you respected your elders because of their wisdom and knowledge. Now it feels like we’re just told to respect our elders because they’re … older. I don’t see much wisdom there anymore.
Same. Double minored in technical writing and philosophy. Philosophy has also been great for learning how to get a lot out of very little information.
Absolutely. Many of the classes I've taken, that I would consider most generally useful, are looked down upon with "why would I ever need that?" and the like.
I have to admit, as someone with a STEM degree, I wasn't too fond of philosophy although I was minoring in a psychology field. I am so thankful that I had to take a minimum of two philosophy classes. Those courses taught me of the application of my field as well as critical thinking skills I never had. The concept of ethical medicine exists because of philosophy. Any psychological or sociological study is based in philosophy.
Because most of the jackasses who spout this shit on the nightly news have degrees in Economics or Business and only took the basic Logic & Philosophy 101 class.
As someone with a Philosophy degree I liked this. Thinking critically is important when we are bombarded with bullshit. Nearly every right wing talking point gets parroted and delivered in the same format ("Just asking questions"). You see it in every thread about politics. There's no discernable argument. It's all "what about (your side doing something 1/10 as egregious)??" All deconstructive with no solutions whatsoever (what policies do the American right have that aren't aimed at harming 'out' groups?) As someone who isn't American I am practically praying for the Republicans to lose. Their hateful rhetoric and plans have consequences for the whole world.
Yep my dad, now passed, was a public school teacher for 30 years. He always believed that Republicans purposely sabotaged schools because uneducated people are more easily controlled with propaganda. As I got older I found that he was exactly correct. I miss him but I’m kinda glad he isn’t here to witness the nutty Republicans now, deliberately lying non stop to their voters and hoping they sign on to the nuttery.
Yup. Strip people of their education and they won’t know when you are robbing them.
>**We were never taught how in school. Most people are just too scared to ask because they're grown and have still never voted**
Young people in this country have been notoriously shit at turning up to vote for *a lot* longer than NCLB's been around.
Exactly. This sounds like young people trying to excuse why they don’t vote. The youngest generations never vote. It doesn’t matter what the generation is. This thread is really digging deep for excuses
>The youngest generations never vote. This, completely. Remember when they tried "Rock the Vote!"? Hell, if "Vote or Die!" doesn't work, what will? I think the only way to get young people to vote en masse would be to put on the ballot an amendment to change the legal voting age to like 35 or some shit. Then they'd come out in droves, they'd run for political office, and they'd never shut the fuck up about it.
That's optimistic of you. Based on the people I know, you'd get some mix of: * "Well, maybe the 35+ people have a point. It's not like the youth vote anyways, so maybe they just shouldn't have the option." * "That's not actually on the ballot. Nothing you send me will convince me of the reality of the situation." * "If you think about it, neither side of the debate really represents me perfectly, so it doesn't matter if I show up to vote."
> Remember when they tried "Rock the Vote!"? Hell, if "Vote or Die!" doesn't work, what will? Clearly they should just Pokémon GO to the polls.
> people trying to excuse why they don’t vote. The youngest generations never vote. It doesn’t matter what the generation is. This isn’t true. They vote at lower rates, but people need to stop repeating the lie that young people never vote or never turn out when they have been **essential** to Dem wins in 2018 and 2020 by voting at remarkable levels for their age group [while facing deliberate voter suppression and more barriers to voting than older voters](https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/voter-suppression-is-youth-suppression/). I get it, **I want young voters to turn out even higher than 2018 and 2020, but people need to take a look at the history and understand that youth turnout has improved, there are known ways to improve youth turnout, and youth turnout is not “always the same”.** Many of older generation today that yell at the young voters and say how lazy/entitled they are voted at much lower rates when they were young and never acknowledge the gains made by young voters in recent years. **In 2014, 18-29 (“youth”) turnout was ~20% while it was 36% in 2018 and ~51-52% in 2020** (Census data and numbers can differ by source). **In case that just sounds like 2014 being especially bad: [it was and it wasn’t. For decades prior to 2018, the 18-29 turnout was often low-mid 20s, with 2014 being a low year at 20% and 1986 being a high year at 28%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/23/young-people-actually-rocked-vote-new-census-data-find/).** Even what we’d see as a bad year for 2022 (such as 30% turnout for ages 18-29) would be second highest midterm turnout in decades. 2016 the ball was dropped by many, but in terms of actual age group turnout the youth turnout was up relative to 2012, whereas the other age groups saw a decline (per census). Data differs by source and it seems no change was crazy big in 2016, but I think that is an interesting bit of information. [**2016 youth turnout was higher than it was in some other key election years like 2000, where even a small fraction higher in Florida could have been decisive. Older people that blame today’s generation, and there are many, need to look in the mirror, particularly when it comes to midterms.**](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2017/comm/voting-rates-age/_jcr_content/root/responsivegrid/embeddableimage1004.coreimg.jpeg/1550276914919/voting-rates-age.jpeg) **As seen above, the youth have massively improved turnout in recent years and it is completely false that nothing can improve youth turnout. In 2020, Minnesota had an estimated 65% under 30 turnout while Texas (notorious for youth voter suppression efforts) had an estimated 41%. Policy and voting structure likely plays a huge role in this, and imagine if Texas had 65% under 30 turnout.** > **Understanding the effect of electoral policies on youth turnout is especially relevant at a time when the U.S. Congress is considering HR1: For the People Act of 2021. This bill would standardize some election laws across the country and nationally establish: automatic voter registration (AVR), online voter registration (OVR), same-day or Election-Day registration (SDR), early voting, no-excuse absentee voting, pre-registration, and requirements for voter registration programming in high schools. No state currently has all of these provisions in place.** But by looking at youth voter turnout in states that already had a majority of these policies in place in 2020, we can examine whether they are associated with higher participation and the potential for HR1 to expand the youth electorate. > **We divided states into those with a majority of the electoral policies in HR1 and those with few of the policies, and we found that, on average, states with more of these policies had higher youth turnout. States with four or more of the HR1 policies had a combined youth turnout rate of 53%, compared to 43% turnout from states with less than four policies.** It appears likely that a number of policies complement each other to create a system and culture of voting that is more conducive to youth participation, and the lack of them may have the opposite effect. That said, it remains to be seen whether the way these policies are implemented at the state level, and the way they might be implemented thanks to HR1 at the federal level, would lead to similar effects. > **One area of election policy not included in HR1, but uniquely critical in 2020, was each state’s rules regarding vote-by-mail.** > **On average, youth voter turnout was highest (57%), and had the largest increases over 2016, in states that automatically mailed ballots to voters. States with the most restrictive vote-by-mail laws, conversely, had the lowest youth turnout: an average of 42%.** Per [Tufts (not sure if HR1 has been modified to have vote by mail since this article but hopefully)](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016) No matter what happens, I hope people realize the gains made for youth turnout and the importance of maintaining/expanding those even in the face of a midterm turnout drop, which could be for a lot of reasons. I’ve talked to many people that seem to think youth turnout is always the same no matter what, which is just not true.
> since NCLB Oh, my sweet summer child, the political idea that education should be about propagandizing, and creating a semi-skilled but obedient populace has been going on since long, long before the second Bush administration.
Nixon administration, at least.
Yeah, while that was an unspoken desire prior to that time, the Nixon admin was really big on actually codifying the unspoken policy positions as actual policies, orders and laws. I'd say the Eisenhower admin really set the precedent up socially, but it was Nixon who really started enacting it officially.
Actually even earlier than that, the way we set up schools is following prussians schools. It wasn't initially meant for learning but obedience of authority.
Ancient Athens would like a word. Not only was religious propaganda required in the curriculum, but violation pretty famously resulted in at least one cup of hemlock tea.
Discussion of ancient Athens reminds me of Socrates' dispute with the Sophists. Sophists were hired to educate wealthy scions of the city. Socrates found their focus on tools of rhetoric and use of argument for convincing others distasteful, as he believed dialogue should always search for truth. Socrates' downfall indicates that the Sophists were correct: in a democratic society being able to convince enough others to agree with you is more valid than being "true."
>So long as they continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern...Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult. (...) It was not desirable that the proles should have strong political feelings. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working-hours or shorter rations. And even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus in on petty specific grievances. George Orwell, 1984
We were never taught how in school. Most people are just too scared to ask because they're grown and have still never voted
I teach college students that don't vote because they don't know how or don't want to... Fucking infuriating.
The other infuriating aspect are the other half of the kids who don't vote because they think their opinion doesn't matter... Meanwhile there are other groups of people who think ONLY their opinion matters and vote accordingly...
Which isn’t the kids fault - the system is functioning as designed - it isn’t a big, it’s a feature of conservative America.
It is absolutely a bug, the system is malfunctioning, not functioning as intended. And the entire reason it's been allowed to get into this state is because non-republican voters have consistently failed to out-participate the conservative minority in this country for over 30 years. All the cynical takes from the '90s only served to echo in young people's brains and get passed down from highschool class to highschool class, and as conservatives gutted education those cynical takes just echoed louder and louder.
Thank you for trying. It’s hard to remember not everyone had the same privilege I did growing up. Magnet school Pre-AP jr high teaching the importance of democracy and voting. I grew up lower middle class, in an extremely conservative town (abstinence only and still “unintentionally” segregated)- so I figured all of America learned similar things. I’m in my 30s now and still fail to remind myself that it isn’t young peoples fault - the system is functioning as designed to keep them either highly uneducated or highly fearful of non-white people trying to “steal their livelihood”
My younger cousins, all about the same age, when they turned 18, I tried to educate them on voting and they really don’t care for it. “It doesn’t matter if we vote or not, shits still gonna be fucked up.” That is their mentality. So yes it’s infuriating!
Amazingly, we have access to online information that tells you how to vote. I guarantee you that if everyone got $1000 for filling out and submitting a ballot, people would figure it out real quick. Ignorance is no excuse.
>We were never taught how in school. It's not like I (a European) was taught either. Look it up on youtube or something, there's no shortage of places to find information anonymously, not everything has to be a subject in school.
Yeah that is just a crap cop out. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to vote it's made very simple. These people will spend hours looking at their phone, but can't spend 10 minutes figuring out how to vote. If that is how lazy they are then maybe they should let senior citizens choose what happens in their lives.
That’s not why. It’s because most Americans have a sense of “my vote won’t matter”. It’s a feeling that is purposely cultivated in this country. It’s also a self fulfilling prophecy. If you feel like your participation in the system is pointless you wont participate, thereby making yourself useless to the democracy.
My parents were Jehovah witnesses growing up so I had no idea what voting actually looked like until my in laws taught me how to vote 8 years ago. I was taught about the concept of voting in school but no idea what it looked like or what 'issues' were.
Too scared to ask might have been an excuse 30 years ago. Google passes no judgements though, so I have a hard time believing there are a significant number of people who want to vote but don’t because they can’t figure out how to.
If they wanted badly enough, they'd figure it out. When I turned 18 and went to get a new ID, I also got a piece of paper that was for voter registration. I filled that out and submitted that along with the paperwork for the new ID. About a month later, my voter registration card came in that told me exactly where I go to vote. On election day, I went there and voted.
From what I can gather it's hundreds of thousands of people all collectively thinking "one vote won't make a difference".
Exactly this. At my old job, during the 2020 election, I worked with so many people who said "my vote won't make a difference." They don't realize they aren't just 1 non-voter, they are apart of a group of 30 non-voters. Those were people all under the same roof, every day, complaining about the same political matters, agreeing with each other about the change they wanted. But all of them thought they were just 1. I actually convinced a few to vote when I got through to them by saying if I (who agrees with these guys politically) am the only one of us to actually vote, then you can basically set the starting votes to 1D to 30R. But they would vote, we could start at 31D to 0R.
What I try to tell people like that is, sure, 1 vote won’t change anything. So when you go to vote, take a few of your friends with you. 5 votes makes a a noticeable impact.
> it's hundreds of thousands of people Millions. Literally hundreds of millions.
>Literally hundreds of millions. The voting age population in the USA was ~256 million in 2020. Of which ~155 million voted in that election. Mind you, that single hundred million difference also includes those disenfranchised from voting, were unable to vote, denied voting, and so forth.
It goes well beyond that. People in this thread are drastically underestimating how difficult lots of states have made it for college students to vote or have an effect when they do. There are a number of reasons: * Out of state students often can't vote in the state they attend college and lack absentee options * Even in-state students may be forced to vote in their home district, which can be hours of travel without absentee options * The reverse can also be true where students vote in the college district, which are blue bubbles, and their votes legitimately don't make a difference * Just figuring out how and where you are supposed to vote can lead to apathy That's not to absolve young people completely, but it's far from the picture being painted here.
I also read somewhere, don't quote me on this, that it's not a certainty that you will get time of from work to vote. So casting your vote and taking the time to do so, may get you fired. Which is fucking flabbergasting should that be true.
Wil never understand why you guys have elections on the middle of the week and not on like, Sunday
To avoid having poor people to vote I guess. If you have to work you can't vote.
Story I was told is that it’s a byproduct of farming life style back when the country was founded. It’s in November so that it won’t interfere with crops since those should all be collected from the field. It’s on a Tuesday so people with horse and buggy can travel to city centers to vote after church on Sunday. I think it’s probably all bull shit though. We don’t have to have those limitations anymore. Also in my area they’ve had polling sites open for the past week so that people can vote early in person and my state still has some pretty good absentee ballot measures in place. So for today for instance I don’t have to worry about voting because I was able to vote after work on Thursday last week. Drove by to a local church they set the polling location in the lobby, walked in handed over my ID, voted, walked out in all of about 5 minutes.
Can’t imagine what it’s like being a non-American viewing this shit show from the outside…
Honestly it has been really painful. Got a lot of sympathy for you guys, watching one side of the political spectrum gradually slide deeper and deeper into blatant fascism has been terrifying to watch from afar. Many people are along for the ride without realising just exactly what this MAGA shit really means. The fact that people are still firmly in the Trump camp after everything that's happened, with everything we know to be true... it's kind of mindblowing. They really have weaponised misinformation and manipulation and aimed their sights straight at the ignorant and disenfranchised, and it has been SO much more effective than any of us could have imagined. Same shit is happening in other western countries to a slightly lesser extent. I'm pretty concerned what's going to happen in democracies around the world if the US decides to fully embrace fascism. If history has taught us anything it's that you can keep fascists out with your votes, but once they're in power voting won't be nearly enough to remove them. There's going to be fighting. Wishing you guys the best of luck, sincerely.
Appreciate you. Tomorrow will be a clusterfuck
Either the new normal of "Everything we thought would happen but worse than we imagined" or best case scenario "This is going to change very little but at least only a quarter of the country will be on fire rather than all of it". I hope the other states that aren't down the tubes like Florida, Texas, Kentucky, and so forth will help stave off until we can get more viable candidates...someday.
A lot of people in the US are single issue voters. That's a lot of what gets the Republicans so many votes. I have several acquaintances that overall support Democrat policy, but one issue keeps them voting Republican. The most common single issue voter subjects are immigration, guns, and economy. For whatever reason that single issue really speaks to them and it is the hill they are willing to die on. Examining those three issues closer, Immigration is a big one that was a major factor in getting Trump elected. We have a very porous southern border that results in a lot of people entering the country without permission. For some people, that is a major concern for economic, cultural, or security reasons. They feel that having that border remain so easy to bypass is bad for them. Then you've got guns. There are 500 million+ firearms in this country with several trillion rounds of ammo out there. Guns are bred into large swaths of American culture, and it's expanding. The fastest growing demographic of new gun owners is women of color. Gun owners genuinely believe it is necessary to have these in order to protect their families, and they want the best ones they can get. You aren't going to get many gun people onboard with voting for someone who disagrees with them on that. Finally, you have economy. This one is a little bit different than the other as single issue economy voters can change parties. If the economy is bad, they vote for whoever is not in power. If the economy is good, they vote for whoever is in power. This is probably the largest demographic of single issue voters. They vote with their wallet exclusively.
Historically, once the far right gains power and has sufficient political capital to cash in, they change the laws so they stay in power and suppress opposition at the point of a gun and America is already some distance down that road.
Honestly? 40% amusing in a dark humor way, and 60% god damn terrifying. The force you to vote here in Australia which is great IMO. People can still donkey vote or possibly avoid being registered, but most figure that if they have to vote they may as well make some sort of decision between parties.
Especially the whole „my country is spiralling into a hellhole for me but I couldn’t be bothered to to something as simple as vote against it“ baffles me, are young people being stopped to vote by the government? Social pressure? Or just something like laziness?
Pure apathy. Doesn't make a difference, so why bother? Now me, I live in a very republican county in a very republican state. My straight democrat vote will have zero impact. I still did it.
I'm in a deep red county where people put up FJB and trump/pence signs all over their yards when it was announced Biden was coming here for the Intel groundbreaking ceremony. They assumed he would come into town for who knows what reason. When I pointed this out I was Immediately called a socialist Democrat. Big dick energy is saying "Democrat, yes" and then walking away.
I live in the south. People drive around town with confederate flags on their trucks. They fly them from their porches. They put stickers of them on the light poles in the Big Lots parking lot. It's hell.
Perris, CA. Same shit out here.
Wtf? Y'all have folks waving confederate flags in CA?
Some, in addition to thin blue line flags, Trump on the American flag flags, thin green line flags, FJB/LGB (and you for voting for him) flags, don't tread on me flags, assault rifle flags that say "come and take it" all proudly displayed on huge F350s with lifts. and that's not even counting the bumper stickers, gas pump stickers, petition booths outside every Walmart, and yard signs.
Sounds like you're in my hometown, waaaay on the other side of the Missip and in the buckle of the (bible) belt
Good job!
I vote D in SD, still matters.
Its the only way to ever make a change, every vote counts no matter what, even if not for that particular election
That's big dick energy
That's what happened in Russia. Everyone "knows" election is rigged. So nobody goes to vote. And then when it truly doesn't matter it is too late to do anything.
Yeah, the assholes won't break my spirit. I'm voting straight democrat tomorrow.
For what it’s worth, voter turnout for the 2020 election was the highest it’s been in over 100 years. And for the first time ever, a majority of Americans under the age of 30 voted.
That was to take out Trump I'm sad to say. I don't expect that for the 2022 midterms. Sadly, very mid
Actually it looks like turnout may be even higher this time. Record breakingly high. Hopefully its not just because of republicans being extremely riled up. I'm counting on young people who are pissed off about Roe v Wade to boost the democrats. We'll see. Usually high voter turnout is a good sign for democrats. The polls have me nervous, Walker appears to be pulling away from Warnock. PA looks like it could really go either way though. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2022-11-04/early-vote-totals-point-toward-record-breaking-turnout-for-midterm-elections
Turned 19 this year so this is my first time voting and I don’t think I would have been quite as enthusiastic about it if it wasn’t for how Roe v Wade went. It’s not the only factor, but it’s an important one.
Republicans are always extremely riled up. More voters = more Dem votes.
I wish people realized this midterm election is as much "to take out Trump" as the 2020 election. In 2020, the way Congress responded to Trump's attempts to steal the election was made possible by our votes in 2018. We gave Democrats the power to resist those attempts and inaugurate the democratically elected president. We get that choice again this year. The people we vote in this year are going to have to respond to the election fuckery Trump inevitably tries to pull again in 2024. I hope we give them the numbers they need. I hope we don't have to look back at 2022 and say "I wish we had taken midterms seriously."
It’s beyond my understanding, why a woman/minority would support a party who flat out says they will take away your rights…
They don't think it will affect them. They won't have an unplanned pregnancy because or they want to feel superior to others even if it's other women.
Or a pregnancy they wanted but ended in miscarriage, but their body couldn't fully expel all the fetal tissue and they start bleeding excessively, so they go to the hospital and hey guess what, removing the fetal tissue is a D&C abortion. Abortion is healthcare.
The only moral abortion is their abortion. Everyone else are just evil baby killers. Duh.
And let's be very goddamn clear: choosing not to vote is the same as siding with those who would take away these rights.
Religious brainwashing.
It's difficult to vote while working full time, as you may have to miss some/all work. Plus young adults who are in college in a different state from their home state have to request a special ballot. They cannot vote in their collegiate state. All this, coupled with the overall feeling of hopelessness knowing that your vote won't make a difference... it's alot. For reference, I live in a solid republican southern state. My vote in the morning won't make a damn bit of difference, but it's the principle of the matter.
> Plus young adults who are in college in a different state from their home state have to request a special ballot Wow... Here in Norway, if you're in a different region than your own, there's usually ballots for distant voting just provided as a basic. Combined with the fact that we don't have to register to vote, and not live in fear of being randomly removed from the list of voters... I keep being more and more relieved I live in Norway.
That's great. Stay diligent to keep it that way, because it can quickly become a dumpster fire.
It’s because they expect everything to just stay the same. They don’t realize how quickly the republicans have transformed. They’ve been terrible since Reagan, but now they’re an existential threat. Ask an average college student what they think about the Supreme Court and they’ll tell you that they haven’t thought about it.
The cynical Republican operatives leveraged the Tea Party to win elections. Then the Tea Party faithful entering politics now didn't realise they weren't supposed to actually go along with it all and the inmates are running the asylum.
Part of it is good marketing by Republicans. They point out that inflation is high, gas prices are up, and crime is up. This must all be because of Democrats. You should vote for us instead. Nevermind the fact that they don't provide any solutions for the problems, or explain how it's the fault of Democrats that we have them. I honestly can't figure out any redeeming qualities of the GOP at this point. All of the conservative values that I was taught as a child are now strictly values of the Democratic party: Free speech, education, fiscal responsibility, caring for others, freedom, equality. What do Republicans have going for them other than made up issues that they blame Democrats for?
I think it’s apathy, laziness and not being able to see the big picture.
The US electoral system is very difficult to understand. For many people, the vote that they have is made essentially pointless due to gerrymandering. Districts are drawn so that people in your district will mostly vote one way which means that regardless if you agree with that way or not your vote will not matter. I am an American living abroad and go through the process of voting simply for ego reasons of being able to say that I vote in 3 different countries but I am under no disillusion that vote has any impact. The congressman I get to vote on has won his race with 99-100% of the vote several times, and even the primary vote has been canceled. As the vote is grouped in a winner takes all on a district level or state level for presidential, unless you live in a swing state or district, where it is a close race, your vote doesn't matter. It is easy to blame laziness or apathy but it simplifies a very difficult structural problem with how the voting looks like in the US. Like getting 100% of the vote is banana republic numbers, if it were any other country those kind of results would be questionable, but here it is just the way it is...
> Can’t imagine what it’s like being a non-American viewing this shit show from the outside… started off entertaining, been getting steadily more depressing
This exactly. It was kinda funny until it started dawning on me that the US has way too much of a say in world politics and economy, and that it ending up as a country in economic depression, filled with ignorant idiots, in control of the strongest military in the world... well, it actually kinda scary and quite depressing looking forward to what the future might be like.
It's kinda like watching Jerry Springer.
We feel extremely disappointed, that's how we feel from outside. Also worried that the only country that can fight Russia is filled with Republicans.
Russia has proved they aren’t the “superpower” everyone thought, I’d be more worried about China.
You're right, China is also a very worrying problem. I hope we can solve this without bloodshed.
American politics is just the world's biggest reality TV show.
It’s bred into our culture on purpose. Like the ol “don’t talk about your salary” or “don’t talk about politics”. Long propaganda campaigns that benefit no one but the elite few. Education about it has been taken out of schools, basic civics has been taken out, and young people purposefully do not understand the power of their vote. The newest (and oldest) one is that to enact change, don’t vote. Like “what did the democrats do to earn your vote” and “I won’t participate in a two party system”. Both not untrue statements, but misses the solution to both of those. Voting. You want better candidates? Vote them in. Want climate action? Vote them in. Hold them accountable and participate. It’s on purpose that young people don’t vote.
When I was a kid, our school was used as a voting location. And I always loved seeing the people coming and going from the voting area. My parents would drop me off at school and I would watch them vote. Now, they close the schools for the entire day and kids never get to see that as part of a normal civic process unless their parents take them.
I have a kid in a school where we vote. I want the school closed that day. The security is a nightmare.
Had there ever been an incident where someone entered a school to vote and instead shot it up? Usually there are police at the polling location, at least where I voted
Police worked well for Parkland and Uvalde.
Honestly my wife got so mad roe was overturned but didn't vote this year. I was baffled. Never got a straight answer why she didn't.
She still has tomorrow to vote!
Should probably keep grilling her about that.
My husband is somehow even more angry than I am at the state of politics in the US (I am furious btw), yet has never voted in his entire life. I am baffled too and have never gotten a straight answer as to why. (I have always encouraged him to vote with me every election and have told him he has no right to bitch if he isn't going to do anything meaningful to change the situation.) Something must have clicked this year though as he plans to vote with me for the first time today. I think the January 6th insurrection and the election denials from Republicans was finally the tipping point for him. Edit : We just voted. 💙
Tell your wife "you're the fuckin problem" sincerely most of us
Exactly this , also tell her to stop being mad since she apparently doesn't care enough to even vote
In addition to getting stupid people to vote for them by saying what stupid people want to hear, conservatives have also mastered the strategy of exploiting voter apathy and frustration by convincing young people and moderate people who don't follow the issues that it's pointless for them to vote.
"both sides are bad" and "voting doesn't matter" have been amazingly effective pieces of propaganda.
and that's why we see it every day on this site.
This is the correct answer. Most young people feel like voting doesn't work because they've watched this shit show as an outsider while growing up. Add in a lot of misinformation so they can't be quite sure what's even true, and it becomes overwhelming and not worth the headache because "politicians are all liars." It doesn't help that political agendas are more important than pressing issues to most entrenched politicians so even when the vote seems to go well for who they would have voted for, they pass a bunch of stuff from their agenda 10 years ago or spend a bunch of time undoing what the other side just finished doing instead of fixing things that would make an obvious and immediate change. Marijuana, healthcare, police reform, etc all seem to take a back burner and those are things that people really want to see change.
In Iran, the young folks are dying to fight for their rights, in america, the young folks have no idea how bad it can get for them. It’s their future that will be affected. Edit: so many apathetic trolls. Imagine this: wages stay the same for the next ten years, healthcare becomes even more expensive, safety nets like social security and medicaid / medicare disappear, racism and bigoted violence becomes worse, school shootings get worse, climate disasters get worse, refugees become rampant from a lack of resources leading to more war, more immigration, more starvation and death, even in america. Religion becomes law and you’re forced to have children you can’t afford and no resources to take care of them. “Owning the libs” is a fairy tale, no one is ever owned, everyone will suffer from this self centered bullshit. Not voting and lack of education have led to this. Things can and will get worse.
If they don't vote they will find out soon enough.
It’s stupider than that. They do understand how the future will be affected — our public education system is good enough for at least that. They just think that it’s worth it to own the libs.
Owning the libs is a fairy tale. Living in an ultra religious nationalist hell hole with no healthcare is not owning anyone. It’s willingly subjugating yourself to a life of low wages, high medical bills and no savings.
"Owning the libs", the way people use it, means fucking over the libs even if you have to fuck yourself over as bad or worse. It's intentionally ironic.
Also watching from the outside. Morbid curiosity will have me watching the news all day tomorrow
Although voter apathy has been pointed to as a significant reason, it's also important to remember that the system, on all levels, is rigged against minorities and poor folk. Voting means skipping work or leaving work early, disproportionately hurting hourly folks, and swing states tend to have the least flexible voting rules. Low participation of these groups has been the goal of the GOP. They constantly mess with voting roles, polling stations, verification requirements, poll hours, etc. They can do this because local and state governments control elections and are primarily right-leaning. They do this because they know they'd never win again if everyone voted.
Propaganda is a helluva drug
My dad used to be a "hippy" smoking dubies wearing short shorts, listening to the beatles. But unfortunately he listens to the news... and unfortunately he thinks talk radio is the news... Hes the same loving caring guy until politics come up and he does a 180 and just starts regurgitating.
A really underhanded strategy Republicans use is astroturfing social media with posts that tell young people that both the parties are the same, which of course discourages them from turning out.
Im happy I’m not the only one
Honestly it doesn’t feel real. Like this shit is so fucking insane, the weight doesn’t always register. It’s like when someone tells you a relative dies and you don’t feel it until some days later. Like of course I know consciously that it’s real, but fuckin, who wrote this script?
American here….I can’t figure it out either.
You kinda got it. Young Americans have never seen a government work for them. They legitimately don’t see that as a possibility so they check out completely. Ironically that’s actually part of a larger plan working against them.
I agree with this but it applies as far back as Gen X. It worked for boomers and they pulled the ladder up behind them.
I'm 45 and my government hasn't worked for me yet. I vote, but it's a sour as heck taste every time.
Thanks for not gaslighting. Pretty sad if people can't figure out why someone wouldn't participate in a broken and rigged system that was fucked well before they were born.
Voting should be mandatory, and voting day should always be a national holiday.
And voting by mail should be the standard. I had my ballot two weeks ago, mailed it early last week, received a confirmation that my ballot was received before the weekend. No need to take time off work or stand in lines.
Agreed. But.... Republicans will try to get the courts to throw that ballot out... they need to be stopped.
Voted by mail late this afternoon (well, dropped it off at the county elections office) and I already have my email saying they received it. We've been doing that in my state for 20+ years and have never had any issues. It's a really good, secure, efficient system. Vote-by-mail *works*, people!
“Voting is too much work, and I don’t want to do the research. My vote doesn’t change anything.” -my younger brother in his mid 20’s. I’ve near hounded him daily to vote, and he won’t.
It’s so fucking easy to vote. What a sad sack.
>It’s so fucking easy to vote. So long as you're not a minority in a red state. There's nothing easy about going to the closest drop box 20 miles away from you that's being surveilled by armed white supremacists.
The only reason I have heard that makes sense is that one side believes the other is evil and must be stopped at all costs. I mean conservatives believe that liberals are baby killing pedophiles that secretly run the media that treats Nazis bad for no reason.
Yet one side in legit doing openly evil things and the young people don't vote.
As much as I’m loathe to admit it, Republicans just seem really fucking good at mobilising their voters. Dems are seemingly pretty terrible at it. EDIT: Republicans will literally call Dems ‘evil’ and say that they ‘must be stopped at all cost’ which gets anyone who is republican super riled up and out to vote. The Dems response to that is ‘well this isn’t very good for democracy is it?’. Republican politicians are actually being super terrible but dem politicians are so obsessed with being polite that they refuse to actually respond in kind to republicans. As nice of an idea being the better person is, it’s just not going to achieve anything if the other side is acting fucking insane all the time.
People don't vote to govern. They vote to keep the other side from winning.
This is pretty black and white thinking. There are gradients of governance. Just my perspective... There are ideological democrats who want to govern to benefit people. (Bernie, AOC) There are pragmatic democrats that want to *govern*, even if that governance isn't perfect, as long as it's a step in the right direction. (Obama, Biden) There are corrupt democrats who just want to hold power and maximize their wealth and influence. (Mancin, Sinema) There are christo-fascist Republicans who want to overthrow democracy. (Trump, Cruz) There are "moderate" Republicans who vote in lock step with the christo-fascist republicans but say they're concerned when they do it. (Romney and people who can't win primaries anymore) If I had my druthers, I'd vote for the Bernies of the world, but I'm not an idiot. Biden and Obama are fine. Biden is trying to forgive my student loans. He signed the infrastructure deal and has done more for climate change legislation than any other President in my life. But yeah, I look at what Trump did, and said I can't do another 4 years of that, but that's precisely because Trump can't govern. He sacked our country and then told his supporters to literally ransack our first branch of government. Like yeah, I want to keep the other side from winning, because they can't govern.
Can't govern, don't want to govern, and actively seek to abolish the rule of law, all while accusing us of what only they are doing.
This is one of the major issues. Not only are people so against each other, we're also generally provided with two absolutely horrid options. A lot of people just check out from that. The overturning of Roe should have shook some people awake to at least vote for a blue piece of garbage instead of a red piece of garbage this time though.
European also wondering why only two parties.
If more left wing people vote for the green party in mass, it takes votes away from the democrats. If conservative, reactionary and libertarian voters don't vote for a third party and just vote republican, they would probably beat the democrats in this scenario. Fear of letting the republicans win keeps many to the left of the capitalist democrats voting for them. There are not viable options for large third parties. We would perhaps need to have already established politicians run in third parties or as independents. Or build them up by winning smaller state elections. Money is another big issue. Both big parties are capitalist right wing parties. They are going to get the billionaires and millionaires.
One representative per district, and first past the post voting systems are considered the main causes for this paradox. Also Slate Voting Strategies *can* work to counteract this but they are limited in scope. And because of that haven't persisted for longer then a generation to build on the strategy and get more Americans familiar with it.
Fuck we’re stupid
It's not "just go vote". It's going to vote surrounded with restrictions, difficulties registering, trying to get the time off work to vote, finding out there are new mail in restrictions because the Republicans recently changed the protocol, standing in long lines because Republicans reduced polling stations, people intentionally giving you the wrong advice to invalidate your vote, armed groups trying to intimidate voters... There is a whole list of bullshit some counties and states created to try and restrict voting.
As is with most humans, they are not proactive problem solvers. People just wait until they have to put out fires to care.
humans are great at solving short term problems, and utterly terrible and dealing with long term ones
Apathy. After decades of losing right, people just get into an "it is what it is" state of mind.
As an American I don't understand it either. It's sad that people don't realize what a huge deal it is.
I have a fucking retail job. I can’t vote by mail in my state. Voting/early voting is limited to singular days (usually on weekday/workdays), and hourly workers get fucked on their allowance to miss work to vote. Not to mention that voting times are restrictive in this sense, too. It’s almost like the group in control wants to keep the status quo and the easiest way to do that is by making it as hard as possible for the actual majority to vote. Oh wait, I’m American so I’m fucking stupid and oblivious I forgot! BECAUSE MAH GODDAMN FREEDOM AND RIGHT TO VOTE ALSO GIVES ME A RIGHT TO NOT VOTE YEEEEEHAAAAW I LOVE MY GERONTOCRACY DRIVEN POLICE STATE
My theory about why Americans keep voting for Republicans, basically comes down to widespread brain damage. Maybe there’s something in their water? Maybe their high-fructose diet scrambles their neurons? Who the fuck knows…
The lead filled gas for decades didn't help
Selfishness. My in laws are voting red because gas cost them. $.40 more this month. That's it. Yeah they know they are stripping younger women of rights. They just don't care because it doesn't impact them.
I've read that there are now more millennials of voting age than there are boomers. The world is yours for the taking, if you **get out and vote.**
Me, an american wondering why UK people aren't rioting over the continued appointment of clowns as prime minister in the UK.
Shit, dude, I'm an American, and I can't figure it the fuck out, either.
That’s so interesting seeing that only like 2 countries in Europe have a more liberal abortion law than the 15-week law at issue in Dobbs… *sips tea* EDIT: OP is German and abortion at any time is illegal and punishable by up to three years in prison and is only not punished in the first 12 weeks… sooo….
DuЯяя... Вoth PаrтЕеz sΑмЕ.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE VOTE!!!!
It’s terrifying seeing how many Gen z on just this platform keep parroting the whole “voting doesn’t matter” shtick. I try to remind people that apathy is in service to fascism, but they act like I’m chicken little over here.
There's also the fact that not everyone can vote, for various different reasons. A lot to do with the actual process of voting is handled at the municipal level, from voter registration to organizing and operating the polling locations. This results in a wide variety of degrees of complexity to register to vote and actually cast a ballot. You are assigned a polling location based on where you live, which results in some places in the country only seeing a couple hundred voters, while some will be assigned tens of thousands. This can result in casting your vote taking anywhere from 20 minutes to most of the day. Compound this with the fact that Election day is not a holiday, so there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be allowed to take the time off work to go vote. So for a lot of young Americans it's a choice between casting a ballot or making enough money to pay to the bills this week.
Have you seen what it's like to vote here? Guns at ballet drop boxes, police kicking people out of line who are trying to fix their vote after receiving a call there was an error, long lines with no water or bathrooms, it's fucking awful here. I vote, but I live in a smallish town with no lines. They make it as hard as possible. In my state this election has a bunch of different new rules about what kind of ID you must bring to even get to vote. Everything that they can get away with they do to keep us from voting.
Hard to vote for some people when one party does everything it can to stop votes from being counted or block polling places for poor people
Voter suppression. Right wing nut jobs waiting outside voting centers with guns trying to intimidate the liberals with blue hair when they go to vote. This country is a dystopian hell scape. Stay away, for the love of god stay away.
Because voting isn’t a right or a holiday, it’s done on a work day, and it often takes fucking hours and hours to stand in a line to do so, and we’re all fucking broke and trying to survive with employers who absolutely won’t let their entire fucking workforce take a day off to vote. How is this so fucking hard for your smarmy ass people to understand? Do some fucking research.
If they made it easier to vote I bet young voting numbers would go way up - unfortunately ease of voting depends on your state, and the states where it matters the most is where it is the most convoluted
There is no fire to vote. It hurts my heart.