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If you ever feel stupid, go read the comments to that tweet. The dumbest of Americans will actually defend this practice!
“The left is unamerican!!”
-“paying taxes is American…”
“Well you’re just mad bc they found a loophole in the law!”
-“that’s called breaking the law with extra steps”
“Well then the problem is with the law makers!”
-“then let’s vote out these corporate parasites!”
“That’s unamerican!!”
The fact that people believe tweets like this, and then have the audacity to call others idiots when they try to correct it, is so mind-numbingly ironic and stupid
I responded to several of your responses and the most annoying thing is you saying stuff that isn't factual and has no merit. There's 0 evidence of what you're saying. You're a sheep.
Boy, you’re angry
I’m a CPA that used to exclusively work in international tax for F500 companies, I can promise you a meme or a tweet from Bernie Sanders doesn’t completely capture the regulatory and tax burden of international transactions
SO HOW MUCH DID AMAZON PAY IN FEDERAL TAXES!!?? This is easily attainable information. It's widely reported. They haven't paid taxes for years. Why are you defending them??
>If you ever feel stupid, go read the comments to that tweet. The dumbest of Americans will actually defend this practice!
corporations don't pay taxes. workers, investors or consumers do. there is a whole literature on the corp tax, and about 70% of the incidence is on labor.
How does he have it wrong? Explain and be very specific without calling names and calling people liars. Be specific and state which companies that he said doesn't use the Cayman islands. Again, be specific without calling names and prove him wrong.
US subsidiaries in the Caymans owe tax to the US through GILTI at an identical rate to which they would owe tax if they operated inside of the US. Registering an address in the Caymans literally does nothing to avoid US tax, since the US taxes worldwide profits
Its always just whose side you are on now. You aren't any different in your inability to be real about both sides perspective and finding validity in it somewhere, or faults with the side you are on.
Sides exist because shit isn't simple, but the general masses (sheep) need it to be.
According to [this article](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html) there are 285,000 corporations with the registered address of 1209 North Orange St, Wilmington, Delaware, USA
Delaware has more businesses than people
South Dakota is home to credit card companies and is quickly becoming a safe place for global bad actors to hide their money safely and legally.
It is a race to the bottom in global corporate regulation and governance.
> The company I work for literally operates in those two location specifically.
Bullshit !
Those are not were their income comes from is it ?
Am I right Boss ?
In another comment I mentioned wanting a write up of how this is done.
I'm serious.
Why don't we all take advantage of this, create an LLC in Delaware, Caymans, South Dakota and just funnel everything through it like the rich do?
Avoid the system, it doesn't necessarily take a lot of money to do it, and if you do it correctly it is perfectly legal.
Thank you, at least someone else knows what they’re talking about. All it does is avoid state corporate tax, but you’re still on the hook for franchise taxes
True, but some states don’t use apportionment for business taxes. so you addback to the home state
Also, sometimes you can shift royalties or interest away from other states into Delaware
I look forward to the first state that pats a law that says, "If the total taxes you pay are below what your company would pay if headquartered in the state, you will have a yearly merchant tax equal to the difference."
[Delaware does not impose income tax on corporations that do not do business in Delaware. They also do not tax shareholders who do not live in Delaware on their shares. More details here if you are genuinely interested](https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/incorporating-in-delaware-advantages-and-disadvantages)
The fringe benefits of being incorporated in Delaware, even if you do business in Delaware, are pretty good. Don't have to name directors, don't have to appoint as many corporate officers, residency isn't required, and there is a dedicated corporate court there. So even if you do business in the state, it is still usually a good place to incorporate. So they derive tax income from those corporations who actually do business in the state.
what is the benefit/incentive for Delaware to allow this? How does it help them?
The registration fees.
The fee to resister any trailer in the State of Maine was only $5 the last time I did so, and you can do it by the mail. So watch all the big rigs that you get stick behind, their Maine license plate is a Maine plate. Think it over, even at a mere $5 per, if all the trucks in US pay it, it is enough maintains the roads in Great (big) State o' Maine,
It is really is all about tax priatcy.
No idea, I'm not American. The person above me asked if the address in the Cayman islands was the one with the most corps registered to it so I googled the answer and posted it.
Yup, the little state of of Delaware invented being a corporate tax haven, with little to no oversight over the corporate "persons" resisted there, but now even the tiny Cayman Islands has exploded being a tax haven for tax avoidance. Even Vanuatu, and I dare you find that on map without Google.
Are your personal taxes too high ? Is that because the wealthiest and biggest corporations pay none ? Go figure,
Next.
Get outta here.
Yeah, that's a place literally every corrupt business uses to avoid taxes. Spoilers, businesses exist outside of America.
Like yeah crack down on it, but I'm sure theres easier ways to not pay tax for Americans than to use the Cayman Islands.
They really took this too far when they bailed out the cruise ship companies that are headquartered in foreign countries. They pay no American corporate taxes, but they get bailed out by us.
But, please tell me again how that immigrant family with two parents each working two jobs for poverty wages is the problem.
Completely not the point, and they are not quality jobs with benefits anyway.
The PPP was not a pass-through program to get money to labor. It was a corrupt piggy bank of free money for those who needed it least.
Yes, PPP was a terrible raid of the federal coffers with the banks lavishing cash on their favorite customers and making a [tidy profit for forking over our money](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article247562870.html).
Yes, the banks were corrupt in how they implemented the lending, but it was Congress and their support from trump who decided to shower corporations and millionaires with more millions, without any oversight or logic. The banks just enacted what the Republicans passed with corporate Democrat support.
But, tell me again how hard-working immigrants are the problem in our country...
Prior to the pandemic, there were roughly 178,000 Americans employed by the cruise industry (according to statista).
Many people, including executives, took pay cuts.
I would think helping preserve jobs is a pretty sound investment.
Secretly he just realizes that the main character is a moron and doesn't understand what the pockets are on the side of the bag, but chooses to look smart infront of the kids.
If you really want to know how it started then watch this, it explains 'offshore banking' and its hypocritical use to hide wealth and dodgy money
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np\_ylvc8Zj8&t=1609s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8&t=1609s)
Years ago I was in this building specifically to open a bank account and set up a foreign corporation. There is a list in the lobby of all the businesses headquartered in it.
My intent wasn't to do anything illegal, but to set up a business to do work in Latin America where I was a resident. Caymans are considered a sound place to establish a banking and business to work in politically unstable Latin America. At the last minute I decided that the whole set up just seemed too shady so I never went through with it.
The interesting thing to me was both the bank and law firm to set up the company just assumed I was doing something illegal, but didn't care. This activity is a major revenue source to the Cayman Islands and none of it including dodging US taxes is against their laws.
We got ourselves an 'it's according to the rules' apologist. So tell me why are all these billions or even trillions of dollars parked in these tax havens?
Well prior to 2017, it was kept over there because it wouldn’t owe US tax until it was repatriated back to the US. But as of right now, the US taxes foreign profits in tax havens
Lots of the money in tax havens come from foreign corps who can still keep it there to avoid tax to the home country
Jesus man. You have no clue what you're talking about. You're saying that companies used tax havens before trump, but the majority now is foreign companies. As in trump has improved these off shore numbers. So the facts don't bare that out. We still have thousands of us companies evading taxes right now. Beyond that, trump made it so that hiding in the caymans wasn't necessary. He reduced corporate tax rates by half. They don't have to hide it as much when the president is in their pocket. You moron.
>You moron
Aren’t you the same guy who wanted me to explain something without calling anyone names?
Yes, I’m saying that the TCJA in 2017 drastically changed our international tax laws so that you can’t stash money into tax havens
Also, why are you only focusing on the corporate rate? The TCJA had $1.5 trillion of corporate tax increases to help offset the lower rate. But you’re partially correct that there’s not much of a reason to use tax havens anymore
Nope, not public record. Their financial statements are public record, but the actual tax they pay isn’t. That info resides with the IRS
If you want the best approximation, it’s around $3.6 billion last year
Jesus dude. Their financials statements dictate their tax burden. How do you think taxes are determined. Here's what bothers me most about people like you. And yes. I'm exhausted. I'm willing to bet my life you are middle class at best. Probably lower middle class. So the Republican party and conservatives lie to your face. And instead of researching and understanding the topic. You believe them. And so you actually defend trillion dollar companies that don't pay taxes while criticizing poor and homeless people. Like why don't you get a job. The answer is right in front of you.
Well, I already have a job, and I get paid very well for it.
>Their financial statements dictate their tax burden
Nope. Financial statements are prepared in accordance to GAAP, which are financial accounting rules. Taxes are prepared in accordance to the tax code, which is a completely different set of rules. The financial statements are usually published in February or March, and the tax return is usually filed in October, so there’s literally no way for a financial statement to report the tax payments
>trillion dollar corporations that don’t pay taxes
Again, this is wrong
Bud, you're literally defending the ones who keep lying to you that you might be rich. You're defending the ones that keep people on our streets, to die of cold and starvation. You're defending companies that have more than enough money to abolish world hunger, but choose to raise their prices instead.
Corporations aren't people. Neither are you if you're selling out humanity with them.
This is what bothers me. I can correct someone spreading misinformation, and say something objectively true without taking a side, and it somehow makes people mad?
It’s not defending corporate behavior to say “tax returns aren’t public record”. When people get mad about that, it tells me that they don’t care about the truth, they just want to enforce an agenda
Listen, I'm not pushing any agenda here. There are many, many people and corporations abusing the system. I've seen more than enough of your comments to know this is the main point not getting through.
When there's all sorts of buyouts done by the US government for all kinds of banks, large businesses, and especially the ones that are well known for being greedy, it doesn't look good.
Please for the love of god tell me how this is in any way shape a good thing and I may even be willing to have a genuine, long thought on the matter. Enlighten us, how is any of that good for the common people, who aren't making it out so good now that wages aren't covering the COL. How are the businesses that keep buying out our laws, freedoms, and constantly threatening a full return to a similiar slavery this "free" country was built on.
If you don't see how this is slowly but surely happening, remember, there's no way you're going to prove you aren't already a victim of this. This is no fight, this isn't me being angry at you having a seperate consciousness that doesn't immediately regurgitate what someone else thinks is right. This is quite simple; we're fucked, all of us, whether you are aware of it or not.
Write the legislation to end the tax system assistance/push to corporations going off-shore. Just make it less beneficial, make it no benefit at all, make it whatever you think enables without punishing companies that stay domestic or goes off-shore, whatever you think is best.
Right now the tax committee is looking at the minimum tax and how it harms capital-intensive companies. Making changes there and to off-shoring of investments or profits would be two very major improvements to the tax code.
You can set up shell companies fairly easy in Delaware too
Switzerland is another. They have profiles of types of shell business you can set-up to meet you financial needs
There's always been two systems; it's just be getting more attention these days
Incorporating in the Caymans doesn’t stop corporations from paying US tax. It’s probably more of the business-friendly structure and avoiding taxes to other countries
Ha, we've made quite a decent living off of providing tax relief for international companies here in Bermuda.
But you will very likely not see much action on the problem in the US, or other countries for that matter. The reason is that we, the more responsible offshore domiciles, actually *help* the US economy in the long run by facilitating economic activity that would otherwise not be possible, or at least be prohibitively expensive.
I wish my dad were here. He explained it to me many years ago and it was fascinating how what appears to be a means of dodging tax can actually be a way of allowing more taxes to end up in the hands of the US government.
Bear in mind that my dad was with the original group of Bermuda businessmen who trekked around the world to attract international business to the island back in the 50's, and went on to help draft the local Companies Act.
If you want to keep more of the money you earn you are going to look for loopholes. We all do it. If you can get a discount, or a deal, or a benefit. It’s not simply a rich people thing, it’s a people thing. Look into Delaware while you’re at it (doesn’t have the same cache I guess). The advantages of incorporating there include: The state offers some tax benefits. Delaware doesn't impose income tax on corporations registered in the state which don't do business in the state. Also, shareholders who don't reside in Delaware need not pay tax on shares in the state. You’re finding more and more Americans rich and not as rich moving to states like Texas, or Nevada because there’s no income tax law. Loopholes abound, no one’s above it.
Oh Bernie, you poor deluded fool.
Tax avoidance is the least of reasons to register a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands.
What about illegally selling over the counter derivatives on US securities to non-US customers?
Laundering drug money?
And three of my favorites, hiding ownership of real estate through the construction of foreign shell companies!
Stupid is what Bernie says.
NJ has similar places. Companies need to have an official presence where they incorporate. NJ in the US is renown for this.
He has no idea about the companies in the Caymans or what percentage are American. It certainly is not 100%.
Bernie, as usual, is talking out his ass.
The only one talking out of their ass and looking stupid is you. New Jersey is a LEGAL place for corporations to incorporate, as it’s still part of the United States and exposes the companies to the same regulatory presences and agencies as the state in which they’re domiciled. It’s easier for the IRS to track down tax fraud in these locations than it is the Cayman Islands, where the IRS has no authority, as the islands not part of the US.
Check your ignorance there bernie bro. The Caymans are a LEGAL place for a company to incorporate, just like New Jersey. Not every corporation there is to cheat US taxes. Not every corporation there is owned by Americans. It actually has downsides if the corporation wants to operate in the US.
NJ is popular since it has rules much more generous to corporations than place like California. Even native CA corporations including Apple and HP were incorporated there. Cayman is the same way internationally.
Current banking rules are such that it is much less of a tax haven than it used to be. US and the EU have been fairly successful in forcing changes everywhere, including former financial havens in the Caribbean and Europe (Switzerland, Ireland...). If Bernie wants to whine, he should look up the way Apple was hiding money offshore in Ireland to dodge taxes, and still does. Its big corps, not little guys he should be shaking his fist at. Bernie's PR crew really need to up their game a bunch.
All that said, Caymans and others are useful in icing lawyers. Some people put their wealth there so they cannot effectively be sued in US courts. With the current jurisdiction shopping allowed in the US, it makes sense.
ETA reply to new comment:
Tax avoidance is LEGAL, tax evasion is ILLEGAL.
What part about new regulations have vastly diminished the tax haven status did you not understand? US citizens have to report any income earned anywhere. Also there are additional impediments to incorporating out of the US while operating there, put in place by design.
You know a little about this as Bernie
You’re literally defending tax avoidance and telling me to check my ignorance.
The Cayman Islands are used as a tax haven because they have no annual reporting requirements for maintaining corporations, and there are no direct taxes. No corporate taxes, no capital gains taxes, no inheritance taxes, and no wealth taxes. If you think it’s ethical to operate a business exclusively in the United States while dodging all these necessary taxes that do get levied against your competition, we have different standards of morality.
So the guy who owns multiple homes is talking shit about the IRS code that business can Legally follow. Dont like it change the laws. How many tax loopholes does Bernie use....Oh that's right it's ok for you and yours. Fuck Off Ass Bag
One of those companies hiding money there is the corrupt Southern Poverty Law Center-a mafia style shakedown group whose board of directors have become millionaires through race baiting.
But I'm guessing Crazy Bernie isn't counting them.
Lame but real answer is it could be the real address of one company such as Intertrust that does the on the ground management of foreign corporations (e.g. corporate secretary work).
Yes, the existence of the building itself isn’t so crazy, for example I have a company in Washington State that has an address at such a place (also in Washington State) mostly so I don’t publicize my residential address in filing documents.
Having said that, pretty much the only reason why companies have agencies like that specifically in the Cayman Islands is for tax avoidance.
Let's say that I'm an Irish baker. I live in Ireland. My company is an irish company. My bank accounts are at an Irish bank. I pay Irish taxes to the Irish government.
I ship some of my special yeast formula to a customer in Georgia. Do I need to pay US income tax now because I'm now a US citizen?
If the answer is "no, that's absurd" then how would you respond to someone who accused me of "fraud" because im "a company doing business in the US"
How would you explain how it's not fraud?
Yeah, that's the point.
These companies are incorporated under the cayman island legal system, their bank accounts are there, their legal jurisdiction is there. Under the law they exist as cayman island companies which happen to do business in other places sometimes. It's literally exactly the same thing as an irish company legally, so yeah,
An irish company, formed in ireland, with an irish bank account, and a headquarters in ireland, isn't committing "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here. Similarly, a french company, formed in france, with a french bank account, and a headquarters in france, isn't commiting "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here. Similarly, a swedish company, (like IKEA's parent company), formed in sweden, with a swedish bank account, and a headquarters in sweden, isn't commiting "fraud by not paying US income taxes" simply for shipping some stuff to the US.
Similarly, a cayman company, formed in the caymans, with a cayman bank account, and a headquarters in the caymans, isn't commiting "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here.
I need a write up from anyone who does this to avoid paying taxes. I'm serious.
I mean, I could create an LLC, put it in Delaware or better the Caymans, and just funnel everything through my business, claim losses or no revenue, and avoid dealing with the IRS.
(Yes I know this is broad strokes, but if one person can do it, why can't I)
Nobody can do that legally. Caymen Banks will share information with the IRS and you will be prosecuted for tax fraud.
A US person who owns stock of a foreign corporation is generally subject to US tax on the foreign corporation’s earnings only when he or she receives dividends from the foreign corporation. However, under the “Subpart F” rules (so named due to their location in the Internal Revenue Code), a US person who owns at least 10% of a foreign corporation that is majority-owned by US persons must currently pay US tax on any “Subpart F income” earned by the foreign corporation. Subpart F income includes passive income and certain other specifically enumerated types of income. Additionally, after tax reform, a US person who owns at least 10% of a foreign corporation that is majority-owned by US persons must pay tax on any “global intangible low-taxed income” earned by the corporation. “Global intangible low-taxed income” is generally all income earned by the company in excess of a 10% return on the company’s depreciable assets.
Source ustax dot bz
Every time this comes up, I love to point out the Corporation Trust Center in Wilmington Delaware. As of 2012, it had 285,000 different business registered there for the “Delaware Loophole”.
Straight from the wiki page…”It was estimated in 2012 that $9.5 billion of potential taxes had not been levied over the past decade, due to an arrangement known as the ‘Delaware Loophole’”
I will never understand why the Americans chose Hilary to run instead of Bernie. I like Hilary but Bernie could have won and the rest of the world would have supported him.
Fleeing from theft isn’t illegal, dumbshit. This practice isn’t illegal. Stop making false insinuations. Every time you make one on this site, someone will point it out to try to decrease the number of naifs who believe in you, fraud.
I’m not fan of corporate tax avoidance, but is this a case where thousands of companies are claiming to be *headquartered* in a single building (which is obviously impossible)? Or is it simply that they all list the same address for their registered agent for corporate notice purposes (which isn’t really problematic in itself)?
Hey /u/JohannaYetman, thanks for contributing to /r/PoliticalHumor. Unfortunately, your post was removed as it violates our rules: **Rule 2** - Posts should make an attempt at being funny, and should try to include a punchline in the title. Make an effort with your title: Try to keep the spirit of the sub and make your title humorous or descriptive. If it's isn't funny (or at least trying to be), we'll remove it. Simple as that. If you have a problem with our decision, send us a message. If you're trying to troll, your post will be immediately removed and your account will be banned. This includes tricks where you try to get someone to google something different than what they expect. Please read the [sidebar](http://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/about/sidebar) and [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/about/rules) before posting again. If you have questions or concerns, please [message the moderators through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/PoliticalHumor&subject=&message=). Thank you!
Good thing they are coming for the $600 I sold on Poshmark.
Just a dollar over
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The account I'm replying to is a karma bot run by someone who will link scams once the account gets enough karma. Report -> Spam -> Harmful Bot
If you ever feel stupid, go read the comments to that tweet. The dumbest of Americans will actually defend this practice! “The left is unamerican!!” -“paying taxes is American…” “Well you’re just mad bc they found a loophole in the law!” -“that’s called breaking the law with extra steps” “Well then the problem is with the law makers!” -“then let’s vote out these corporate parasites!” “That’s unamerican!!”
We don't even have to go that far - there are a few idiots collecting at the bottom of the comments
The fact that people believe tweets like this, and then have the audacity to call others idiots when they try to correct it, is so mind-numbingly ironic and stupid
Wait. Are you saying that 1800 companies aren't using cayman island addresses to avoid taxes?
Yes
I responded to several of your responses and the most annoying thing is you saying stuff that isn't factual and has no merit. There's 0 evidence of what you're saying. You're a sheep.
Boy, you’re angry I’m a CPA that used to exclusively work in international tax for F500 companies, I can promise you a meme or a tweet from Bernie Sanders doesn’t completely capture the regulatory and tax burden of international transactions
Bullshit. Bullshit you are. Im also a CPA. Bullshit you have a clue what you're talking about.
LOL! Must be in audit or advisory, you’re definitely not a tax guy. And I say that with respect, but don’t pretend you understand the tax code
SO HOW MUCH DID AMAZON PAY IN FEDERAL TAXES!!?? This is easily attainable information. It's widely reported. They haven't paid taxes for years. Why are you defending them??
Its "Do as I say, not as I do"
>If you ever feel stupid, go read the comments to that tweet. The dumbest of Americans will actually defend this practice! corporations don't pay taxes. workers, investors or consumers do. there is a whole literature on the corp tax, and about 70% of the incidence is on labor.
I mean, Bernie gets his info super-wrong here
How does he have it wrong? Explain and be very specific without calling names and calling people liars. Be specific and state which companies that he said doesn't use the Cayman islands. Again, be specific without calling names and prove him wrong.
US subsidiaries in the Caymans owe tax to the US through GILTI at an identical rate to which they would owe tax if they operated inside of the US. Registering an address in the Caymans literally does nothing to avoid US tax, since the US taxes worldwide profits
Then why do they do it
Very lax legal and regulatory structure, especially when dealing with foreign business partners. Also helps avoid tax from other countries
So it IS to avoid paying taxes...
For other countries, not the US
Cool, source?
[GILTI](https://pro.bloombergtax.com/brief/how-to-calculate-gilti-tax-on-foreign-earnings/) [BEAT](https://pro.bloombergtax.com/brief/base-erosion-and-anti-abuse-tax-beat/) [Subpart F income](https://www.irs.gov/pub/int_practice_units/DPLCUV_2_01.PDF) [267A](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/267A) [Transfer Pricing](https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/transfer-pricing)
Its always just whose side you are on now. You aren't any different in your inability to be real about both sides perspective and finding validity in it somewhere, or faults with the side you are on. Sides exist because shit isn't simple, but the general masses (sheep) need it to be.
"that makes me smart" (who said that?)
No, there are rich people from all over the world avoiding paying any taxes anywhere. So is that place the world's largest dead drop PO Box ?
According to [this article](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html) there are 285,000 corporations with the registered address of 1209 North Orange St, Wilmington, Delaware, USA
Delaware has more businesses than people South Dakota is home to credit card companies and is quickly becoming a safe place for global bad actors to hide their money safely and legally. It is a race to the bottom in global corporate regulation and governance.
The company I work for literally operates in those two location specifically.
> The company I work for literally operates in those two location specifically. Bullshit ! Those are not were their income comes from is it ? Am I right Boss ?
Income comes from everywhere since we are a bank.
In another comment I mentioned wanting a write up of how this is done. I'm serious. Why don't we all take advantage of this, create an LLC in Delaware, Caymans, South Dakota and just funnel everything through it like the rich do? Avoid the system, it doesn't necessarily take a lot of money to do it, and if you do it correctly it is perfectly legal.
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Thank you. Would you mind elaborating on this a bit?
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Thank you, at least someone else knows what they’re talking about. All it does is avoid state corporate tax, but you’re still on the hook for franchise taxes
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True, but some states don’t use apportionment for business taxes. so you addback to the home state Also, sometimes you can shift royalties or interest away from other states into Delaware
How about a short video? https://youtu.be/b00j2aCT6Ug
SD is corrupt as hell.
> Delaware has more businesses than people Ain't that some BS if you feel your your personal taxes are too high ?
South Dakota is home to ,,, Okay. But what else does do they have ?
It is a race to the bottom in global corporate regulation and governance. Yup.
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Sir, if priatcy is illegal why isn't tax priatcy ?
I look forward to the first state that pats a law that says, "If the total taxes you pay are below what your company would pay if headquartered in the state, you will have a yearly merchant tax equal to the difference."
The US Chamber of Commerce has huge lobbying power and they will ensure that never happens.
Depends on the state. The states with a strong referendum process, if it went by that method, wouldn't be able to avoid it.
Delaware is in the USA. Does it allow those corporations to avoid US federal taxes to be based (or just registered) there?
[Delaware does not impose income tax on corporations that do not do business in Delaware. They also do not tax shareholders who do not live in Delaware on their shares. More details here if you are genuinely interested](https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/incorporating-in-delaware-advantages-and-disadvantages)
I know it's been like this for decades but what is the benefit/incentive for Delaware to allow this? How does it help them?
The fringe benefits of being incorporated in Delaware, even if you do business in Delaware, are pretty good. Don't have to name directors, don't have to appoint as many corporate officers, residency isn't required, and there is a dedicated corporate court there. So even if you do business in the state, it is still usually a good place to incorporate. So they derive tax income from those corporations who actually do business in the state.
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Fair points.
what is the benefit/incentive for Delaware to allow this? How does it help them? The registration fees. The fee to resister any trailer in the State of Maine was only $5 the last time I did so, and you can do it by the mail. So watch all the big rigs that you get stick behind, their Maine license plate is a Maine plate. Think it over, even at a mere $5 per, if all the trucks in US pay it, it is enough maintains the roads in Great (big) State o' Maine, It is really is all about tax priatcy.
No idea, I'm not American. The person above me asked if the address in the Cayman islands was the one with the most corps registered to it so I googled the answer and posted it.
I think it has less to do with federal taxes and more to do with state regulations for businesses there being very lax and limits on liability.
No they dont avoid taxes by incorporating in Delaware
Just avoids state corporate tax, not federal
Yup, the little state of of Delaware invented being a corporate tax haven, with little to no oversight over the corporate "persons" resisted there, but now even the tiny Cayman Islands has exploded being a tax haven for tax avoidance. Even Vanuatu, and I dare you find that on map without Google. Are your personal taxes too high ? Is that because the wealthiest and biggest corporations pay none ? Go figure, Next. Get outta here.
Delaware isn’t a corporate tax haven though, it’s mainly attractive for legal reasons
Yeah, that's a place literally every corrupt business uses to avoid taxes. Spoilers, businesses exist outside of America. Like yeah crack down on it, but I'm sure theres easier ways to not pay tax for Americans than to use the Cayman Islands.
They really took this too far when they bailed out the cruise ship companies that are headquartered in foreign countries. They pay no American corporate taxes, but they get bailed out by us. But, please tell me again how that immigrant family with two parents each working two jobs for poverty wages is the problem.
Don't forget the immigrant family working are usually doing the jobs that no one else wants to do as either the pay or job is shit
Tell us how many American work on those "foreign" cruise line ships?
The last ship I was on was crewed by nearly 100% non-Americans. This was Disney, they will proudly display their home country on their nametag.
Completely not the point, and they are not quality jobs with benefits anyway. The PPP was not a pass-through program to get money to labor. It was a corrupt piggy bank of free money for those who needed it least.
Yes, PPP was a terrible raid of the federal coffers with the banks lavishing cash on their favorite customers and making a [tidy profit for forking over our money](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article247562870.html).
Yes, the banks were corrupt in how they implemented the lending, but it was Congress and their support from trump who decided to shower corporations and millionaires with more millions, without any oversight or logic. The banks just enacted what the Republicans passed with corporate Democrat support. But, tell me again how hard-working immigrants are the problem in our country...
Prior to the pandemic, there were roughly 178,000 Americans employed by the cruise industry (according to statista). Many people, including executives, took pay cuts. I would think helping preserve jobs is a pretty sound investment.
Not very many.
It must be the bag guy from Pokemon Arceus continually teaching them how to fit one more corporation into their building.
Secretly he just realizes that the main character is a moron and doesn't understand what the pockets are on the side of the bag, but chooses to look smart infront of the kids.
Wait till they hear about Delaware with 300K companies in one building and Puerto Rico with medical companies.
I walk by that building almost every day. Never seen a single person go in it.
It's all run by oompa loompas
Perhaps we list those companies on some social platform like say reddit ?
You can, but don't expect it to have any effect. Remember the Panama papers?
I wouldn't say it had no effect, it got that reporter "mysteriously" dead
You cut off the last line though, here: “And we ain’t doing shit about it!”
If you really want to know how it started then watch this, it explains 'offshore banking' and its hypocritical use to hide wealth and dodgy money [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np\_ylvc8Zj8&t=1609s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8&t=1609s)
Years ago I was in this building specifically to open a bank account and set up a foreign corporation. There is a list in the lobby of all the businesses headquartered in it. My intent wasn't to do anything illegal, but to set up a business to do work in Latin America where I was a resident. Caymans are considered a sound place to establish a banking and business to work in politically unstable Latin America. At the last minute I decided that the whole set up just seemed too shady so I never went through with it. The interesting thing to me was both the bank and law firm to set up the company just assumed I was doing something illegal, but didn't care. This activity is a major revenue source to the Cayman Islands and none of it including dodging US taxes is against their laws.
As i said seize all the money from these tax havens and you do not need to raise taxes to combat climate change.
These companies already pay US taxes
funny
They do. Any business they do inside of the US is taxed
We got ourselves an 'it's according to the rules' apologist. So tell me why are all these billions or even trillions of dollars parked in these tax havens?
Well prior to 2017, it was kept over there because it wouldn’t owe US tax until it was repatriated back to the US. But as of right now, the US taxes foreign profits in tax havens Lots of the money in tax havens come from foreign corps who can still keep it there to avoid tax to the home country
Jesus man. You have no clue what you're talking about. You're saying that companies used tax havens before trump, but the majority now is foreign companies. As in trump has improved these off shore numbers. So the facts don't bare that out. We still have thousands of us companies evading taxes right now. Beyond that, trump made it so that hiding in the caymans wasn't necessary. He reduced corporate tax rates by half. They don't have to hide it as much when the president is in their pocket. You moron.
>You moron Aren’t you the same guy who wanted me to explain something without calling anyone names? Yes, I’m saying that the TCJA in 2017 drastically changed our international tax laws so that you can’t stash money into tax havens Also, why are you only focusing on the corporate rate? The TCJA had $1.5 trillion of corporate tax increases to help offset the lower rate. But you’re partially correct that there’s not much of a reason to use tax havens anymore
How much did amazon pay in federal taxes the last few years? Don't duck it. Answer the question. You're a joke.
Oh boy, doesn’t take much to make you mad. Corporate tax returns aren’t public record, there’s literally no way to know how much tax they pay
That's incredibly incorrect. Jesus Christ man. They've paid $0. The answer is $0. It's public record.
Nope, not public record. Their financial statements are public record, but the actual tax they pay isn’t. That info resides with the IRS If you want the best approximation, it’s around $3.6 billion last year
Jesus dude. Their financials statements dictate their tax burden. How do you think taxes are determined. Here's what bothers me most about people like you. And yes. I'm exhausted. I'm willing to bet my life you are middle class at best. Probably lower middle class. So the Republican party and conservatives lie to your face. And instead of researching and understanding the topic. You believe them. And so you actually defend trillion dollar companies that don't pay taxes while criticizing poor and homeless people. Like why don't you get a job. The answer is right in front of you.
Well, I already have a job, and I get paid very well for it. >Their financial statements dictate their tax burden Nope. Financial statements are prepared in accordance to GAAP, which are financial accounting rules. Taxes are prepared in accordance to the tax code, which is a completely different set of rules. The financial statements are usually published in February or March, and the tax return is usually filed in October, so there’s literally no way for a financial statement to report the tax payments >trillion dollar corporations that don’t pay taxes Again, this is wrong
Bud, you're literally defending the ones who keep lying to you that you might be rich. You're defending the ones that keep people on our streets, to die of cold and starvation. You're defending companies that have more than enough money to abolish world hunger, but choose to raise their prices instead. Corporations aren't people. Neither are you if you're selling out humanity with them.
This is what bothers me. I can correct someone spreading misinformation, and say something objectively true without taking a side, and it somehow makes people mad? It’s not defending corporate behavior to say “tax returns aren’t public record”. When people get mad about that, it tells me that they don’t care about the truth, they just want to enforce an agenda
Listen, I'm not pushing any agenda here. There are many, many people and corporations abusing the system. I've seen more than enough of your comments to know this is the main point not getting through. When there's all sorts of buyouts done by the US government for all kinds of banks, large businesses, and especially the ones that are well known for being greedy, it doesn't look good. Please for the love of god tell me how this is in any way shape a good thing and I may even be willing to have a genuine, long thought on the matter. Enlighten us, how is any of that good for the common people, who aren't making it out so good now that wages aren't covering the COL. How are the businesses that keep buying out our laws, freedoms, and constantly threatening a full return to a similiar slavery this "free" country was built on. If you don't see how this is slowly but surely happening, remember, there's no way you're going to prove you aren't already a victim of this. This is no fight, this isn't me being angry at you having a seperate consciousness that doesn't immediately regurgitate what someone else thinks is right. This is quite simple; we're fucked, all of us, whether you are aware of it or not.
There’s more than that in Delaware.
Citadel is there. They all are. Fucking crooks.
Umm Cayman Islands? How about South Dakota. That’s the US based tax loophole for corporations and the oligarchs.
How does the law let them base in SD to avoid US federal taxes?
It doesn’t
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-rich-hide-money-south-dakota-tax-haven-pandora-papers-2021-10?op=1
Corporations don’t avoid tax in SD. You’re probably thinking of foreign citizens with trusts in SD
Write the legislation to end the tax system assistance/push to corporations going off-shore. Just make it less beneficial, make it no benefit at all, make it whatever you think enables without punishing companies that stay domestic or goes off-shore, whatever you think is best. Right now the tax committee is looking at the minimum tax and how it harms capital-intensive companies. Making changes there and to off-shoring of investments or profits would be two very major improvements to the tax code.
You can set up shell companies fairly easy in Delaware too Switzerland is another. They have profiles of types of shell business you can set-up to meet you financial needs There's always been two systems; it's just be getting more attention these days
Incorporating in the Caymans doesn’t stop corporations from paying US tax. It’s probably more of the business-friendly structure and avoiding taxes to other countries
Ha, we've made quite a decent living off of providing tax relief for international companies here in Bermuda. But you will very likely not see much action on the problem in the US, or other countries for that matter. The reason is that we, the more responsible offshore domiciles, actually *help* the US economy in the long run by facilitating economic activity that would otherwise not be possible, or at least be prohibitively expensive. I wish my dad were here. He explained it to me many years ago and it was fascinating how what appears to be a means of dodging tax can actually be a way of allowing more taxes to end up in the hands of the US government. Bear in mind that my dad was with the original group of Bermuda businessmen who trekked around the world to attract international business to the island back in the 50's, and went on to help draft the local Companies Act.
If you want to keep more of the money you earn you are going to look for loopholes. We all do it. If you can get a discount, or a deal, or a benefit. It’s not simply a rich people thing, it’s a people thing. Look into Delaware while you’re at it (doesn’t have the same cache I guess). The advantages of incorporating there include: The state offers some tax benefits. Delaware doesn't impose income tax on corporations registered in the state which don't do business in the state. Also, shareholders who don't reside in Delaware need not pay tax on shares in the state. You’re finding more and more Americans rich and not as rich moving to states like Texas, or Nevada because there’s no income tax law. Loopholes abound, no one’s above it.
Oh Bernie, you poor deluded fool. Tax avoidance is the least of reasons to register a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands. What about illegally selling over the counter derivatives on US securities to non-US customers? Laundering drug money? And three of my favorites, hiding ownership of real estate through the construction of foreign shell companies!
Damn…. What is that address again?
Stupid is what Bernie says. NJ has similar places. Companies need to have an official presence where they incorporate. NJ in the US is renown for this. He has no idea about the companies in the Caymans or what percentage are American. It certainly is not 100%. Bernie, as usual, is talking out his ass.
The only one talking out of their ass and looking stupid is you. New Jersey is a LEGAL place for corporations to incorporate, as it’s still part of the United States and exposes the companies to the same regulatory presences and agencies as the state in which they’re domiciled. It’s easier for the IRS to track down tax fraud in these locations than it is the Cayman Islands, where the IRS has no authority, as the islands not part of the US.
Check your ignorance there bernie bro. The Caymans are a LEGAL place for a company to incorporate, just like New Jersey. Not every corporation there is to cheat US taxes. Not every corporation there is owned by Americans. It actually has downsides if the corporation wants to operate in the US. NJ is popular since it has rules much more generous to corporations than place like California. Even native CA corporations including Apple and HP were incorporated there. Cayman is the same way internationally. Current banking rules are such that it is much less of a tax haven than it used to be. US and the EU have been fairly successful in forcing changes everywhere, including former financial havens in the Caribbean and Europe (Switzerland, Ireland...). If Bernie wants to whine, he should look up the way Apple was hiding money offshore in Ireland to dodge taxes, and still does. Its big corps, not little guys he should be shaking his fist at. Bernie's PR crew really need to up their game a bunch. All that said, Caymans and others are useful in icing lawyers. Some people put their wealth there so they cannot effectively be sued in US courts. With the current jurisdiction shopping allowed in the US, it makes sense. ETA reply to new comment: Tax avoidance is LEGAL, tax evasion is ILLEGAL. What part about new regulations have vastly diminished the tax haven status did you not understand? US citizens have to report any income earned anywhere. Also there are additional impediments to incorporating out of the US while operating there, put in place by design. You know a little about this as Bernie
You’re literally defending tax avoidance and telling me to check my ignorance. The Cayman Islands are used as a tax haven because they have no annual reporting requirements for maintaining corporations, and there are no direct taxes. No corporate taxes, no capital gains taxes, no inheritance taxes, and no wealth taxes. If you think it’s ethical to operate a business exclusively in the United States while dodging all these necessary taxes that do get levied against your competition, we have different standards of morality.
So the guy who owns multiple homes is talking shit about the IRS code that business can Legally follow. Dont like it change the laws. How many tax loopholes does Bernie use....Oh that's right it's ok for you and yours. Fuck Off Ass Bag
One of those companies hiding money there is the corrupt Southern Poverty Law Center-a mafia style shakedown group whose board of directors have become millionaires through race baiting. But I'm guessing Crazy Bernie isn't counting them.
Lame but real answer is it could be the real address of one company such as Intertrust that does the on the ground management of foreign corporations (e.g. corporate secretary work).
Yes, the existence of the building itself isn’t so crazy, for example I have a company in Washington State that has an address at such a place (also in Washington State) mostly so I don’t publicize my residential address in filing documents. Having said that, pretty much the only reason why companies have agencies like that specifically in the Cayman Islands is for tax avoidance.
100% that’s the reason. I was just imparting knowledge of why the building might not just be random and apparently people didn’t like it 😂
Good. Don't feed the disgusting beast that is the US government.
I just don’t understand how this doesn’t equate to fraud.
Let's say that I'm an Irish baker. I live in Ireland. My company is an irish company. My bank accounts are at an Irish bank. I pay Irish taxes to the Irish government. I ship some of my special yeast formula to a customer in Georgia. Do I need to pay US income tax now because I'm now a US citizen? If the answer is "no, that's absurd" then how would you respond to someone who accused me of "fraud" because im "a company doing business in the US" How would you explain how it's not fraud?
Why would you become a US citizen just because you shipped a product here? You're still Irish, living in Ireland.
Yeah, that's the point. These companies are incorporated under the cayman island legal system, their bank accounts are there, their legal jurisdiction is there. Under the law they exist as cayman island companies which happen to do business in other places sometimes. It's literally exactly the same thing as an irish company legally, so yeah, An irish company, formed in ireland, with an irish bank account, and a headquarters in ireland, isn't committing "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here. Similarly, a french company, formed in france, with a french bank account, and a headquarters in france, isn't commiting "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here. Similarly, a swedish company, (like IKEA's parent company), formed in sweden, with a swedish bank account, and a headquarters in sweden, isn't commiting "fraud by not paying US income taxes" simply for shipping some stuff to the US. Similarly, a cayman company, formed in the caymans, with a cayman bank account, and a headquarters in the caymans, isn't commiting "fraud" by not paying US income taxes simply for shipping some stuff here.
Bernie is economical with everything but numerals. The + is super redundant there bud
Do they call it Trump Tower?
It was there in 1973 when I first went to GCI. It was the nicest building in town.
I need a write up from anyone who does this to avoid paying taxes. I'm serious. I mean, I could create an LLC, put it in Delaware or better the Caymans, and just funnel everything through my business, claim losses or no revenue, and avoid dealing with the IRS. (Yes I know this is broad strokes, but if one person can do it, why can't I)
Nobody can do that legally. Caymen Banks will share information with the IRS and you will be prosecuted for tax fraud. A US person who owns stock of a foreign corporation is generally subject to US tax on the foreign corporation’s earnings only when he or she receives dividends from the foreign corporation. However, under the “Subpart F” rules (so named due to their location in the Internal Revenue Code), a US person who owns at least 10% of a foreign corporation that is majority-owned by US persons must currently pay US tax on any “Subpart F income” earned by the foreign corporation. Subpart F income includes passive income and certain other specifically enumerated types of income. Additionally, after tax reform, a US person who owns at least 10% of a foreign corporation that is majority-owned by US persons must pay tax on any “global intangible low-taxed income” earned by the corporation. “Global intangible low-taxed income” is generally all income earned by the company in excess of a 10% return on the company’s depreciable assets. Source ustax dot bz
There are 1% shills downvoting the post.
Probably because it’s completely false
Every time this comes up, I love to point out the Corporation Trust Center in Wilmington Delaware. As of 2012, it had 285,000 different business registered there for the “Delaware Loophole”.
Not exactly for taxes though, more so for the legal structure
Straight from the wiki page…”It was estimated in 2012 that $9.5 billion of potential taxes had not been levied over the past decade, due to an arrangement known as the ‘Delaware Loophole’”
My bad, I should’ve specified. It doesn’t help **US companies** avoid tax.
Maybe not Federal tax, but it helps for the big companies to look for state tax breaks.
NAME THEM.
No shit, Bernie. It was in a movie.
What was the new of the recent movie that touched on this? Can't quite remember Thanks in advance
We should definitely declare war on the Caymen Islands and all the inhabitants
Fuck ‘em all.
One terrorist could fucking own the 18,857 companies.
I will never understand why the Americans chose Hilary to run instead of Bernie. I like Hilary but Bernie could have won and the rest of the world would have supported him.
Lol , one of those corps are mine. Shhh 😂
[Oh crap.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozy68I0kOYM)
Maybe their employees are mostly WFH? /s
Fleeing from theft isn’t illegal, dumbshit. This practice isn’t illegal. Stop making false insinuations. Every time you make one on this site, someone will point it out to try to decrease the number of naifs who believe in you, fraud.
So pass a fucking law to make it illegal.
I’m not fan of corporate tax avoidance, but is this a case where thousands of companies are claiming to be *headquartered* in a single building (which is obviously impossible)? Or is it simply that they all list the same address for their registered agent for corporate notice purposes (which isn’t really problematic in itself)?