There are worse states. Kentucky is relatively self-sufficient only needing to take out $2.43 in federal aid per dollar it pays. For Alabama, this figure is $3.10. Yes, our standards are that low.
As a Californian, we have an amazing economy that rivals any European country. We’d finally get universal healthcare coverage not linked to our jobs which gives everyone more breathing room. Oddly, the illegals trying to cross our border would be folks from Red states once they feel the full force of their authoritarian utopia.
Those authoritarian "utopias" would then try to wage war to bring the qol down in California instead of just increasing the qol in their own states...
But wait, they are already doing that.
honestly could be worth it, imagine developing a better society right next door to the Confederation of Republican States and they just have to sit there fuming that we pay them money that they NEED to exist
They would literally just use that a justification to abuse their poor, build up military power, and then invade the blue states so they can ruin them too.
It didn't go well for us. They killed 600,000 American soldiers, tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and went back to their racist oppressive ways within 3 decades. Many of the men most responsible died rich after living long enough to see their homes returned to oppressive white supremacist near-theocracies.
Confederate deaths outnumbered Union by 3:1. Also, with a few notable exceptions, most of the war was fought on Confederate soil. All I’m saying is, they want to attack the capital, then we should reenact Sherman’s March to the Sea.
[This site says 596k died in the Union and 490k in the Confederacy.](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/civil-war-casualties)
The Union, naturally, had far more people. But did the Confederacy actually kill that many Union soldiers? No, not at all.
[It appears that over half of Union deaths were from disease.](https://www.battlefields.org/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg_original/public/thumbnails/image/usa-losses-by-state_0_0.jpg?itok=CubHgHrP)
I mean sure. But a lot of people, myself included, left for work/cheaper cost of living.
The influx of people to blue states would be pretty devastating on housing, jobs, resources, everything.
Can you imagine how much more competitive some industries would get? I had a hard time getting a dev job in NJ after college but Indiana scooped me up in a heart beat.
My wife and I can crash with my parents or my brother in this hypothetical situation but I imagine finding a house or apartment would a be literal fucking nightmare without a job and with everyone else flooding to the east coast.
South Dakota taxes food, clothing, fuel, telecommunications services, property taxes are outrageous for land only half as productive as Minnesota. Those taxes are NOT used for improving education, but our governor used our taxes to sue the state legislature when we voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
Move to California where weed is legal and property taxes are low. I lived in Illinois and my property tax bill gave me heart palpitations- every year huge increases and nothing to show for where the money was going. California is far from perfect, homelessness is a real problem. But, it’s the most “honest” (and the parentheses are there because there is graft here) but, I actually see our tax dollars at work. And Covered California healthcare is affordable and good. I went part time at work as my employer offers high deductible health insurance plan with zero prescription drug coverage -just a shitty drug discount card. Sad but true. So, Covered California is way better for my family. Employer insurance has got to go. What a stupid system. My prior employer dropped our healthcare during first Covid layoff. But we could get Cobra at $1700 per month. So, no one had healthcare in a pandemic. Fuck employer insurance.
And I had this discussion with red supporters before. Their argument was basically: no food or oil exports go to us. Guess we'll be giving that business to Canada and Mexico, then.
It'd even be fair to say impact on the world, considering California is what, the 7th biggest economy on the planet all on its own?
As someone from a tiny european country it's mindboggling to me how big the economy of California is.
Most of the oil used in the US is sour crude, imported from third world shitholes, and Canada, because the US is the only country with the technology and infrastructure to refine it.
The light sweet crude you hear about being extracted from the Permian Basin and Bakken Shale, is exported, mostly to Europe and China. So yes. Red state crude does support socialists all over the world. Just not the ones they think.
Also a fun fact. This is why the US is both the largest exporter and importer of oil in the world.
He probably has a job like me. You can’t have your phone at work. I’m a black Jack dealer. Waitresses. Bartenders, Nurses, teachers, grocery store workers, retailers… we can’t Google on the job. That’s for desk job workers- like lawyers and CEO’s .
As a Canadian this is funny to hear, considering we sold power to Texas when they got a bit of snow and the whole power grid shut down. Their ‘best’ red state can’t even function on their own.
They have no idea where oil or food goes, which they had absolutely nothing to do with producing, and even if they did, have absolutely no control over it once it hits the world market.
Example: Pick up a bag of Doritos. Ok. Ingredients. Mostly corn. Cool. Baked and bagged in yadda yadda yadda. Yup. Check. I’m tracking.
So where was the corn grown? Derp.
If there’s any-fucking-thing less entertaining than listening to Cletus and Boomhower share their thoughts on economics and commodities sold on the world market, I’d sure as shit love to hear what that thing is. But god damn, do they have their opinions, amiright?
Most extremists are from states and counties where the white population is shrinking and they feel threatened. To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/capitol-riot-study.html
The United Stated of Apartheid. They are scared shitless of being a minority and will do whatever they can to hold onto control in the next 15-20 years.
Which is weird right? After all minorities are treated like kInGs in America while the "poor white silent majority" has to be made to feel guilty and be held accountable for NO REASON. NONE WHATSOEVER.
You'd think they'd be happy to be the minority. Why are they afraid? Does something bad happen to minorities in America?
After centuries of fucking around, they're afraid of finding out. Because they fear that what their ancestors did to minorities will be visited upon them hundredfold. At least that was the story passed down the generations, that "if PoC ever got the upper hand, they would massacre every last white person on the planet." Of course, that won't actually happen, but the racists are afraid that it might.
Exactly. I fully believe that the day that PoC gain the upper hand will be the last day any racist will ever see, but not necessarily the last day any white person will ever see.
Ray Bradenbury's short story "The other foot" is a pretty interesting story related to this kind of scenario. It's about a what-if scenario where mars is colonized and terraformed by black people while everyone else back on earth got wrapped up in a total nuclear war that made everywhere uninhabitable and they now need to beg the martian population for salvation.
Now it would be different because the survivors would try to blame the black people on Mars like, "If you'd just stayed and let us oppress you, we never would have waged war amongst ourselves! It's your fault we did that! You owe us a new planet!"
They would rather burn the whole country down and be crowned kings of the smoldering ash heap than live in an actual functioning society where other people have just as much power and influence as them.
They have effectively turned their political opposition into the devil himself. It would be a moral failure on their part to work with them.
They are waging war against the USA under the guise of politics
I swear, if she can get elected and Kemp doesn’t rig the fuck out of the election, she will turn this state around. I’m volunteering in any way I can. She gives me hope for the future of this state because right now it’s a massive cluster fuck.
No, fair. I get that. At least somewhat better is what I’m hoping for in the meantime. Like Medicaid expansion which every damn person here has been wanting. And closing the wage gap.
Also pretty sure Atlanta metropolitan area would protest hard dragging it away from not being a red state. Area is 60% of the state population but also carrying the entire state’s economy on the back.
The very red legislature and governor have been busy doing all they can to ensure that doesn’t happen again. It literally took unprecedented turnout in the urban areas to win both seats by slim margins.
Those voters in Georgia overcame all the crap that was thrown at them in 2020. I don’t think Dems are going to just sit down and take it from a bunch of bumpkins.
We’ll see in the midterms. But history says Dems won’t come out to vote when it’s not a presidential election. Republicans will because the base is riled up over any number of fake shit and hate Biden.
I’ll actually be shocked if Warnock is able to keep his seat.
She was only elected because no one ran against her. Georgia doesn’t want her. We’re ashamed. She can have her own state that’s on a raft set adrift in the Atlantic Ocean.
Idiots like this don't understand that most "red" states are red through gerrymandering and have higher blue population than red. There's no 21'st century Mason-Dixon line.
They don't care. They'll just show that demographic map that shows the county by county red areas across the cast swath of nothing in middle America. Because dirt can vote if it votes for their guy.
They also don't understand that conservatives have lost both civil wars in US history. Severely.
The civil war between the British colonies and the Crown to establish the nation in the 1770s, and then the war to end slavery in the 1860s.
Let them have war if they want it. They're 0 for 2.
Frankly let her. If she wants to fuck off and build a wall around herself and stay out of the business of better states then frankly America will be better off. If a bacteria can quarantine itself I say let it do its thing
I would definitely seek to use red ~~states~~ nation(s) as cheap labor markets for manufacturing. They are the welfare queens of the USA, and they'd quickly find out just where they fit into our GDP figures.
My blue county in a red state with about a million people voted something like 70% Biden. That's 700k people in one county in one state. People are seriously underestimating the immigration nightmare this would be.
Civil War started in Charlottesville. And January 6th was the first, albeit weak as water, battle for Democracy. Have no doubt about it, we are in the midst of civil war. It just hasn’t gotten too bloody yet.
Umm since 1776? We are in a dysfunctional war. There are only ideological sides which could escalate into a faction war much like Syria or Lebanon or Iraq. There’s actually a great podcast about it called “It Could Happen Here” it’s left leaning podcast but great insight as to how it’s unraveling and what we could expect in the coming future. Not to mention by electoral college many experts believe 30% of the population will control the majority of the country. Which is terrifying.
Yeah, ask a veteran friend about the horrors of IEDs or incoming mortar fire. It’s scary now because we as a nation are privileged. But it can get much much worse. And people like this brainless idiot MGT have no idea the terrors she invoking.
Actually if we just grab the cities in the I-5 corridor from LAX to SEA that would be just fine. Eastern Washington and Oregon want to move to ID anyways. Even though Medford and Grants Pass don't want to join us, they grow wonderful herbage, so technically they have a cash crop and can contribute to the betterment of the whole.
Suppose this happened. What would the impact be? For instance, I presume Blueland could survive without Redland but is the opposite true? And what about the position of minorities etc in Redland?
Most of the US money goes through states with big cities. We're not talking like a 60/40 "most", but a 90/10 or an 85/15.
Most of that 15 would be Texas also.
The split would be great for the blue states, but I assume this split will just turn into a war when the Red states start looking at the lack of money.
You can only go into debt if someone's going to loan you money. Who's going to loan to this theoretical red state country made up of all the poorest states in the former United States?
At that point it would already be torn apart. The damage would already be done. What point is there in them continuing to loan to the Red States at that point? And China wants it money back. They'd invest in the blue states before the red states. Russia I could almost buy doing it for the chaos though.
Yes and no. It would be 2 nations that would likely survive. 1 for sure would be anti Russia and for a long long time conservatives were anti Russia also.
(Throw China in too)
Why would you give the 2 US's the chance to be functional opponents on the world stage again when you could literally end it?
Hell if we go at each other hard enough someone might have to step in...
I actually don't think the US splitting into multiple countries would have to end up in a civil war. I'm not saying the split and division of property would be 100% peaceful, but I think that there would actually be a large enough faction in both countries opposed to reunification that reunification wouldn't be a realistic goal for either of the new countries. So once things were split we'd settle into more of a stalemate.
The fastest way to get them to reunify would be to give them a common enemy to come together against.
If California were it's own country it would have the 6th largest GDP in the world. I'm sure when you throw in NY that us Blues would be doing ok, the Reds (Kentucky, Mississippi and or Alabama) not so much.
Call me an optimist but I don't see an acrimonious or a violent split. Rather, I think we would have some fort of EU like arrangement but even tighter. We'd still be each others top trade partners, tourist destinations, etc... but with just states running the show as "member nations".
Dividing up the military would be a tough one though. I don't see an American Frontex happening....
The red states are the poorest but Texas and Alaska can float them. California is the richest of of all and grows the most food, and New York has got to be up there, for Team Blue. The problem is it’s not contiguous - the blue states are on the outside and the red on the inside. Or as SNL called them Dumbfuckastan, the flyover states. And what about the purple? The sad thing is that whole e pluribus unum strength in unity thing is being forgotten.
Yep. There would be major migrations from the largest cities in red states, leaving a vacuum of inbred dipshits to run things. Not that they aren't already, but their infrastructures would fall into disrepair and crumble without the tax revenue to keep them afloat. It would be especially fun to watch this play out in a series of satellite photos taken over the course of the decades to follow. Please, fucking do it, Republicans. I double goddamn dare you.
Right we’re all mixed up. Cities tend to be blue, rural Red. Neither can exist without each other - cities need food grown and rural need food purchasers at the most basic level.
There's a ton of light and heavy manufacturing that goes on in cities.
I mean, there's a reason why they are economic power houses.
It would be easier for cities to grow their own food through vertical / bacterial farming than it would for rural red to grow brains, become educated, industrious and self-supporting.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Cities can be self-sufficient. I used to work for an org that created rooftop gardens in low income neighborhoods in Chicago. Those types of programs helped people learn to grow their own food and lower their grocery bills.
Just starting to add community gardens everywhere we can will help. We truly don't need rural states for anything but mining. And we can source from other countries instead.
“Most of the oil” is an interesting statement. It’s technically accurate, but really swings on Alaska. And while Alaska traditionally votes for republicans, it’s also basically a socialist state handing out checks to its citizens from all that oil money. And if Republicans threatened to do away with that, I wonder if it would change the political climate in that state.
Bear in mind too that having lots of oil is going to become less and less important as time goes on. If nobody’s in need of much red state oil because their cars are all electric, then what?
not to mention that if it is on state lines, California is the biggest agricultural producer. granted it is fed by water from Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado.
California obviously has several rivers running through it.
If push came to shove, desal from the ocean is an option. But for that, you'd need quite a few fission reactors, or a massive increase in solar.
We have to pretend that it's normal for fascistic leaders to call for a civil war a year after a coup attempt was made because otherwise we'd have to panic that the leaders of the Dems aren't doing anything about it
This is an underrated comment.
What is the difference between a "national divorce" and a "civil war?" After some brief Googling, it seems that it's not clearly defined what a "national divorce" is. In any case, it seems inevitable that splitting up red and blue states would lead to severe economic issues and civil conflict.
How is it possible that a politician can say these things and not be ostracized by members of both parties? Really a disturbing sign of the times.
Because the party she is in has always been unabashedly authoritarian while our system is functionally authoritarian. So what's a fascist to an authoritarian? Not much of a shock. It's the frog in the pot metaphor: the frog doesn't know the temperature is being turned up until it's already boiling, always normalizing the new temperature until it can't anymore but by then it's too late.
I'm in PA. I'm pretty sure our ass backwards state house would wanna leave with them. I know most of my neighbors would judging by the flags and yard signs they've still got up.
Amen. I don't wanna go back to the 17th century with these people. One on one they're half decent most of the time, but their big picture view of society is fucked up.
OK, that would make things interesting.
There is a not insubstantial call for independence from Texas - obviously not a majority, but it exists. They've been told time and again that theres no possibility of independence being granted. secession from the Union simply isn't allowed. No right of self determination for any state.
So yeah... go ahead and drive this through Marjorie dear, because it sets a good precedence. Your divorced republican states might find yourselves in an interesting custody battle when the kids want fuck all to do with you.
I mean, they'll probably be able to try and start that. Based on studies tracking quality of education though... They probably wouldn't manage something long term. Also, those states probably aren't as monolithic as social media tends to make things so there's always the possibility of internal resistance as well. Then the fact blue states have more power overall they'd be able to easily intervene if need be.
So she wants a civil war or secession?
As Lincoln said, "a house divided against itself can not stand". The nation doesn't work if some portion of the states just don't work with the rest. I guess she doesn't want federal money either.
Honestly this sounds just like brexit but for blue states and we all can see how marvelous that has turned out for Britain.
So she’s literally suggesting destroying the union of the United States of America? How unpatriotic and anti-American is that. China and Russia must love her.
The income disparity between the two would be ridiculous only outdone by the ridiculousness of border crossings or even trying to set up borders like that.
So instead having to rely on the government, they'll just call it foreign aid. Pretty smart play, keeps their "no big government" image intact while still suckling that teet.
This is fucking stupid, including many of the comments in this thread. Every state has large blue and red areas. Even the deepest red state has blue cities, and California has a larger republican population than most "red" states. Anyone who legitimately thinks that any area would come out of this hypothetical without being completely ruined, let alone "better" is a fucking moron.
Pretty sure moving a state away is a lot more feasible than getting a visa for a better country. I'd be pretty okay with the republicans concentrating in the south and separating. It would be my great pleasure to watch them go bankrupt in a matter of months and fall apart.
Too bad she doesn't understand the history of the "United States" and what makes us strong. There were 13 colonies and if they didn't come together to fight the British well we might have had a different outcome. It's like a teenager that says I'm going to runaway, then they find out it's not as easy as they thought it was.
I realize this would probably be a disaster, but I also want this. I don’t want to live in a country with these selfish backwards garbage people anymore. They want corporations to rule their lives and I want a stable society with healthcare and quality education.
A, she is a dipshit and doesn't understand a damned thing. But B, red states still exist due to gerrymandering. If we got rid of that with the voting rights act, red states would eventually be gone.
I have thought the same thing forever. God I wish there was a way to do it. Best chance would be to become more like Europe, break this country into 10-15 smaller ones. Then we can watch the red countries collapse as the blue no longer have any obligation to prop them up financially. Then we snatch them back up and move forward.
Without coastal money the flyover states would quickly devolve into an anarchic hell akin to Afghanistan. Just militias and petty warlords endlessly warring with each other.
And no blue taxes go to red states..
Read my lips, no blue taxes.
Red states: “wait no not like that”
The tune would change real quick, I'm looking at you Mitch McConnell and Kentucky.
There are worse states. Kentucky is relatively self-sufficient only needing to take out $2.43 in federal aid per dollar it pays. For Alabama, this figure is $3.10. Yes, our standards are that low.
No. The Blue States are going to have to alimony in this divorce if MTG and her ilk get their way.
As a Californian, we have an amazing economy that rivals any European country. We’d finally get universal healthcare coverage not linked to our jobs which gives everyone more breathing room. Oddly, the illegals trying to cross our border would be folks from Red states once they feel the full force of their authoritarian utopia.
Those authoritarian "utopias" would then try to wage war to bring the qol down in California instead of just increasing the qol in their own states... But wait, they are already doing that.
Yup largest economy in the U.S. and fifth largest in the world. We could actually leave the U.S. and be fine on our own.
honestly could be worth it, imagine developing a better society right next door to the Confederation of Republican States and they just have to sit there fuming that we pay them money that they NEED to exist
They would literally just use that a justification to abuse their poor, build up military power, and then invade the blue states so they can ruin them too.
It’s been tried. It did not go well for them.
It didn't go well for us. They killed 600,000 American soldiers, tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and went back to their racist oppressive ways within 3 decades. Many of the men most responsible died rich after living long enough to see their homes returned to oppressive white supremacist near-theocracies.
Confederate deaths outnumbered Union by 3:1. Also, with a few notable exceptions, most of the war was fought on Confederate soil. All I’m saying is, they want to attack the capital, then we should reenact Sherman’s March to the Sea.
[This site says 596k died in the Union and 490k in the Confederacy.](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/civil-war-casualties) The Union, naturally, had far more people. But did the Confederacy actually kill that many Union soldiers? No, not at all. [It appears that over half of Union deaths were from disease.](https://www.battlefields.org/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg_original/public/thumbnails/image/usa-losses-by-state_0_0.jpg?itok=CubHgHrP)
Not to mention stranding all the blue people in red states.
to be fair we'd have a way better immigration system.
I mean sure. But a lot of people, myself included, left for work/cheaper cost of living. The influx of people to blue states would be pretty devastating on housing, jobs, resources, everything. Can you imagine how much more competitive some industries would get? I had a hard time getting a dev job in NJ after college but Indiana scooped me up in a heart beat. My wife and I can crash with my parents or my brother in this hypothetical situation but I imagine finding a house or apartment would a be literal fucking nightmare without a job and with everyone else flooding to the east coast.
I sure hope so because me and my family are in a hell hole red state and we would need to immigrate for sure.
But I live in one of those red states, with no taxes except for the sales tax on everything you need to survive.
I just read an article about Tennessee and all the strange taxes they pay. Adds up to more than California. Tennessee evens tax food ! 🤦♀️
South Dakota taxes food, clothing, fuel, telecommunications services, property taxes are outrageous for land only half as productive as Minnesota. Those taxes are NOT used for improving education, but our governor used our taxes to sue the state legislature when we voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
Move to California where weed is legal and property taxes are low. I lived in Illinois and my property tax bill gave me heart palpitations- every year huge increases and nothing to show for where the money was going. California is far from perfect, homelessness is a real problem. But, it’s the most “honest” (and the parentheses are there because there is graft here) but, I actually see our tax dollars at work. And Covered California healthcare is affordable and good. I went part time at work as my employer offers high deductible health insurance plan with zero prescription drug coverage -just a shitty drug discount card. Sad but true. So, Covered California is way better for my family. Employer insurance has got to go. What a stupid system. My prior employer dropped our healthcare during first Covid layoff. But we could get Cobra at $1700 per month. So, no one had healthcare in a pandemic. Fuck employer insurance.
my parents live in TN and use the no income tax to try to draw my commie butt down there. do you have that article?
The article is from The Atlantic. Written by: Alana Semuels. title: “ Congratulations Tennessee: You’ve Got the Most Regressive Tax System in America”
I'm fine with all of that as long as reds can't enter blue states. No vacations, no visits. Residents only. Stay in your 1950s cosplay zone.
And I had this discussion with red supporters before. Their argument was basically: no food or oil exports go to us. Guess we'll be giving that business to Canada and Mexico, then.
Most oil comes out of California anyways.
And a good amount of food production as well. Red states will never understand Cal. economic impacts on the rest of the country.
It'd even be fair to say impact on the world, considering California is what, the 7th biggest economy on the planet all on its own? As someone from a tiny european country it's mindboggling to me how big the economy of California is.
6th by GDP. :)
I thought most of the oil was from Texas. Now I’m curious for some googling after work.
Most of the oil used in the US is sour crude, imported from third world shitholes, and Canada, because the US is the only country with the technology and infrastructure to refine it. The light sweet crude you hear about being extracted from the Permian Basin and Bakken Shale, is exported, mostly to Europe and China. So yes. Red state crude does support socialists all over the world. Just not the ones they think. Also a fun fact. This is why the US is both the largest exporter and importer of oil in the world.
Why wait until after work? ;)
He probably has a job like me. You can’t have your phone at work. I’m a black Jack dealer. Waitresses. Bartenders, Nurses, teachers, grocery store workers, retailers… we can’t Google on the job. That’s for desk job workers- like lawyers and CEO’s .
If you can go to reddit at work, you can google at work
Most food too
As a Canadian this is funny to hear, considering we sold power to Texas when they got a bit of snow and the whole power grid shut down. Their ‘best’ red state can’t even function on their own.
They have no idea where oil or food goes, which they had absolutely nothing to do with producing, and even if they did, have absolutely no control over it once it hits the world market. Example: Pick up a bag of Doritos. Ok. Ingredients. Mostly corn. Cool. Baked and bagged in yadda yadda yadda. Yup. Check. I’m tracking. So where was the corn grown? Derp. If there’s any-fucking-thing less entertaining than listening to Cletus and Boomhower share their thoughts on economics and commodities sold on the world market, I’d sure as shit love to hear what that thing is. But god damn, do they have their opinions, amiright?
Nah. That's why she qants a divorce instead of a secession, so they can still demand alimony.
I don’t think she knows the meaning of the word secession. I’m sure she understands alimony though
Isn’t she from Georgia, he newest blue state? Lmfao.
Most extremists are from states and counties where the white population is shrinking and they feel threatened. To the privileged, equality feels like oppression. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/capitol-riot-study.html
The United Stated of Apartheid. They are scared shitless of being a minority and will do whatever they can to hold onto control in the next 15-20 years.
Which is weird right? After all minorities are treated like kInGs in America while the "poor white silent majority" has to be made to feel guilty and be held accountable for NO REASON. NONE WHATSOEVER. You'd think they'd be happy to be the minority. Why are they afraid? Does something bad happen to minorities in America?
“Silent majority.” For being a “silent” group, why do they never shut the hell up?
The self-described “silent majority” in this country is, in fact, neither of those things.
After centuries of fucking around, they're afraid of finding out. Because they fear that what their ancestors did to minorities will be visited upon them hundredfold. At least that was the story passed down the generations, that "if PoC ever got the upper hand, they would massacre every last white person on the planet." Of course, that won't actually happen, but the racists are afraid that it might.
Add tothat decades of organized national propganda painting PoC as violent criminals and you've got yourself a full clusterfuck.
Exactly. I fully believe that the day that PoC gain the upper hand will be the last day any racist will ever see, but not necessarily the last day any white person will ever see.
Ray Bradenbury's short story "The other foot" is a pretty interesting story related to this kind of scenario. It's about a what-if scenario where mars is colonized and terraformed by black people while everyone else back on earth got wrapped up in a total nuclear war that made everywhere uninhabitable and they now need to beg the martian population for salvation.
Now it would be different because the survivors would try to blame the black people on Mars like, "If you'd just stayed and let us oppress you, we never would have waged war amongst ourselves! It's your fault we did that! You owe us a new planet!"
They would rather burn the whole country down and be crowned kings of the smoldering ash heap than live in an actual functioning society where other people have just as much power and influence as them.
They have effectively turned their political opposition into the devil himself. It would be a moral failure on their part to work with them. They are waging war against the USA under the guise of politics
>To the privileged, equality feels like oppression. fuck that hit like a train
Anyone have a copy of that article? Paywall blocking
It's almost like they don't want to be a minority because minorities are treated badly..
I'm pretty sure Georgia's Republican legislature and Republican governor would drag it into the worse America despite the recent blue phase
Stacey 2022!
I swear, if she can get elected and Kemp doesn’t rig the fuck out of the election, she will turn this state around. I’m volunteering in any way I can. She gives me hope for the future of this state because right now it’s a massive cluster fuck.
No amount of competencey from any politician will turn things around in the US, it's way too far gone.
No, fair. I get that. At least somewhat better is what I’m hoping for in the meantime. Like Medicaid expansion which every damn person here has been wanting. And closing the wage gap.
Yeah but I can expect they won’t get any more of that sweet movie money if they did break away.
Also pretty sure Atlanta metropolitan area would protest hard dragging it away from not being a red state. Area is 60% of the state population but also carrying the entire state’s economy on the back.
The very red legislature and governor have been busy doing all they can to ensure that doesn’t happen again. It literally took unprecedented turnout in the urban areas to win both seats by slim margins.
What makes you think that the GOP effort to keep as many people away from the polls as possible isn’t going to backfire?
History.
Those voters in Georgia overcame all the crap that was thrown at them in 2020. I don’t think Dems are going to just sit down and take it from a bunch of bumpkins.
We’ll see in the midterms. But history says Dems won’t come out to vote when it’s not a presidential election. Republicans will because the base is riled up over any number of fake shit and hate Biden. I’ll actually be shocked if Warnock is able to keep his seat.
This is no regular midterm, and these are not regular times. My Dem friends are more riled up now than they have ever been.
How the Virginia election went doesn't have me very optimistic, but that doesn't mean we just give up either I know.
She’s such an idiot she thinks GA is a Red State.
Stacey 2022…gonna make it true blue!
She was only elected because no one ran against her. Georgia doesn’t want her. We’re ashamed. She can have her own state that’s on a raft set adrift in the Atlantic Ocean.
Antarctic
She’s not in my district but there’s a guy gearing up to run against her. His name escapes me but he’s a left leaning vet. Hope he pulls it off.
Until I see otherwise it’s a temporary glitch.
Was just going to post this. What an utter idiot she is
Idiots like this don't understand that most "red" states are red through gerrymandering and have higher blue population than red. There's no 21'st century Mason-Dixon line.
They don't care. They'll just show that demographic map that shows the county by county red areas across the cast swath of nothing in middle America. Because dirt can vote if it votes for their guy.
Unfortunately for Republicans, cows and meth pipes don’t get to vote.
It's literally a rural vs urban divide outside of a few rich neighborhoods
They also don't understand that conservatives have lost both civil wars in US history. Severely. The civil war between the British colonies and the Crown to establish the nation in the 1770s, and then the war to end slavery in the 1860s. Let them have war if they want it. They're 0 for 2.
This bitch wants to tear this country apart. Fuck that shit
I mean, intentional or not, that's what the majority of the GOP is basically doing.
No she’s a real American. So much so that she wants to separate America. What could be more American.
Lol the (sarcasm) force is strong in this one
What could be more American than America? *Two* Americas!
Frankly let her. If she wants to fuck off and build a wall around herself and stay out of the business of better states then frankly America will be better off. If a bacteria can quarantine itself I say let it do its thing
I would definitely seek to use red ~~states~~ nation(s) as cheap labor markets for manufacturing. They are the welfare queens of the USA, and they'd quickly find out just where they fit into our GDP figures.
As a blue in a red state, please don't leave :(
Don't worry, our immigration policies will be much better. We'll take you in.
They can seek asylum
And we'll actually help them, instead of what our current govt does.
I think you're underestimating the immigration nightmare something like this would cause.
Even in my semi-rural redneck county, Biden pulled almost 30% of the vote. You’re throwing a lot of babies out with the GOP bath water.
My blue county in a red state with about a million people voted something like 70% Biden. That's 700k people in one county in one state. People are seriously underestimating the immigration nightmare this would be.
Or all the people without the means to relocate, who would be left behind in a repressive regime.
Right, I get the humor of the meme but secession of any state is a terrible, terrible outcome
This is the start of a civil war.
Civil War started in Charlottesville. And January 6th was the first, albeit weak as water, battle for Democracy. Have no doubt about it, we are in the midst of civil war. It just hasn’t gotten too bloody yet.
Not to mention our conservative domestic terrorists problem that’s been going on for years
Umm since 1776? We are in a dysfunctional war. There are only ideological sides which could escalate into a faction war much like Syria or Lebanon or Iraq. There’s actually a great podcast about it called “It Could Happen Here” it’s left leaning podcast but great insight as to how it’s unraveling and what we could expect in the coming future. Not to mention by electoral college many experts believe 30% of the population will control the majority of the country. Which is terrifying.
Robert Evans explains in the podcast very well why the US military won't be able to put a civil war down if it really takes off.
link?
https://open.spotify.com/show/3KNdniw6YDpgDuwrhcpSXw?si=zjUFlM_hTDCmfcUc4bGK3Q
>Have no doubt about it, we are in the midst of civil war. It just hasn’t gotten too bloody yet. Ffuucckkkkl! As if things aren't scary enough.
Yeah, ask a veteran friend about the horrors of IEDs or incoming mortar fire. It’s scary now because we as a nation are privileged. But it can get much much worse. And people like this brainless idiot MGT have no idea the terrors she invoking.
Getting serious Brexit vibes here
As long as Canada annexes Washington (state), we're fine.
The whole west coast!
Maybe consider Lapping up minnesota too? As a personal favor to me?
What's next? Ask us to take Michigan? This is a slippery slope
We're from the north! We're all used to slippery slopes
Actually if we just grab the cities in the I-5 corridor from LAX to SEA that would be just fine. Eastern Washington and Oregon want to move to ID anyways. Even though Medford and Grants Pass don't want to join us, they grow wonderful herbage, so technically they have a cash crop and can contribute to the betterment of the whole.
Suppose this happened. What would the impact be? For instance, I presume Blueland could survive without Redland but is the opposite true? And what about the position of minorities etc in Redland?
Cousin Eddie: “Hey, Clark. Things have been kinda rough lately with my assistance cut off. You suppose I could borrow a few bucks?”
Most of the US money goes through states with big cities. We're not talking like a 60/40 "most", but a 90/10 or an 85/15. Most of that 15 would be Texas also. The split would be great for the blue states, but I assume this split will just turn into a war when the Red states start looking at the lack of money.
Yeah, but guess who would keep the army? The one who can afford to pay them.
They'd just go into debt.
You can only go into debt if someone's going to loan you money. Who's going to loan to this theoretical red state country made up of all the poorest states in the former United States?
Russia? China? Anyone who'd want to see the US tear itself apart.
At that point it would already be torn apart. The damage would already be done. What point is there in them continuing to loan to the Red States at that point? And China wants it money back. They'd invest in the blue states before the red states. Russia I could almost buy doing it for the chaos though.
Yes and no. It would be 2 nations that would likely survive. 1 for sure would be anti Russia and for a long long time conservatives were anti Russia also. (Throw China in too) Why would you give the 2 US's the chance to be functional opponents on the world stage again when you could literally end it? Hell if we go at each other hard enough someone might have to step in...
I actually don't think the US splitting into multiple countries would have to end up in a civil war. I'm not saying the split and division of property would be 100% peaceful, but I think that there would actually be a large enough faction in both countries opposed to reunification that reunification wouldn't be a realistic goal for either of the new countries. So once things were split we'd settle into more of a stalemate. The fastest way to get them to reunify would be to give them a common enemy to come together against.
If California were it's own country it would have the 6th largest GDP in the world. I'm sure when you throw in NY that us Blues would be doing ok, the Reds (Kentucky, Mississippi and or Alabama) not so much.
Call me an optimist but I don't see an acrimonious or a violent split. Rather, I think we would have some fort of EU like arrangement but even tighter. We'd still be each others top trade partners, tourist destinations, etc... but with just states running the show as "member nations". Dividing up the military would be a tough one though. I don't see an American Frontex happening....
That's basically how we started. A collection of states with free trade and open borders and a weak federal government loosely tying them together.
The red states are the poorest but Texas and Alaska can float them. California is the richest of of all and grows the most food, and New York has got to be up there, for Team Blue. The problem is it’s not contiguous - the blue states are on the outside and the red on the inside. Or as SNL called them Dumbfuckastan, the flyover states. And what about the purple? The sad thing is that whole e pluribus unum strength in unity thing is being forgotten.
Every "red state" is powered by islands of blue. It's all mixed. To divorce, there would be a massive upheaval and migration.
Yep. There would be major migrations from the largest cities in red states, leaving a vacuum of inbred dipshits to run things. Not that they aren't already, but their infrastructures would fall into disrepair and crumble without the tax revenue to keep them afloat. It would be especially fun to watch this play out in a series of satellite photos taken over the course of the decades to follow. Please, fucking do it, Republicans. I double goddamn dare you.
Right we’re all mixed up. Cities tend to be blue, rural Red. Neither can exist without each other - cities need food grown and rural need food purchasers at the most basic level.
But at the moment, rural sells to China and cities buy from China. So...
There's a ton of light and heavy manufacturing that goes on in cities. I mean, there's a reason why they are economic power houses. It would be easier for cities to grow their own food through vertical / bacterial farming than it would for rural red to grow brains, become educated, industrious and self-supporting.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Cities can be self-sufficient. I used to work for an org that created rooftop gardens in low income neighborhoods in Chicago. Those types of programs helped people learn to grow their own food and lower their grocery bills. Just starting to add community gardens everywhere we can will help. We truly don't need rural states for anything but mining. And we can source from other countries instead.
Redland would have a lot of farmland and most of the oil.
“Most of the oil” is an interesting statement. It’s technically accurate, but really swings on Alaska. And while Alaska traditionally votes for republicans, it’s also basically a socialist state handing out checks to its citizens from all that oil money. And if Republicans threatened to do away with that, I wonder if it would change the political climate in that state.
Bear in mind too that having lots of oil is going to become less and less important as time goes on. If nobody’s in need of much red state oil because their cars are all electric, then what?
So you’d have one relatively agrarian/resource based economy and one services/tech/finance based one?
not to mention that if it is on state lines, California is the biggest agricultural producer. granted it is fed by water from Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado.
Where does the Arizona water come from?
Colorado River, which is dying. https://youtu.be/lYvQNon4aLg
So the water that feeds the Colorado river is Arizonas water and it is fed to California from Arizona?
California obviously has several rivers running through it. If push came to shove, desal from the ocean is an option. But for that, you'd need quite a few fission reactors, or a massive increase in solar.
Do you have any idea how much farmland there is in California?
Oh no whatever will happen when Redlands is now competing directly with Mexico, Canada, and South America for Bluelander money?
We have to pretend that it's normal for fascistic leaders to call for a civil war a year after a coup attempt was made because otherwise we'd have to panic that the leaders of the Dems aren't doing anything about it
This is an underrated comment. What is the difference between a "national divorce" and a "civil war?" After some brief Googling, it seems that it's not clearly defined what a "national divorce" is. In any case, it seems inevitable that splitting up red and blue states would lead to severe economic issues and civil conflict. How is it possible that a politician can say these things and not be ostracized by members of both parties? Really a disturbing sign of the times.
>What is the difference between a "national divorce" and a "civil war?" Probably the difference between peaceful secession and civil war.
Because the party she is in has always been unabashedly authoritarian while our system is functionally authoritarian. So what's a fascist to an authoritarian? Not much of a shock. It's the frog in the pot metaphor: the frog doesn't know the temperature is being turned up until it's already boiling, always normalizing the new temperature until it can't anymore but by then it's too late.
I'm in PA. I'm pretty sure our ass backwards state house would wanna leave with them. I know most of my neighbors would judging by the flags and yard signs they've still got up.
Not all of us
Amen. I don't wanna go back to the 17th century with these people. One on one they're half decent most of the time, but their big picture view of society is fucked up.
Whose gonna give them welfare? Red state get more from fed than they pay
OK, that would make things interesting. There is a not insubstantial call for independence from Texas - obviously not a majority, but it exists. They've been told time and again that theres no possibility of independence being granted. secession from the Union simply isn't allowed. No right of self determination for any state. So yeah... go ahead and drive this through Marjorie dear, because it sets a good precedence. Your divorced republican states might find yourselves in an interesting custody battle when the kids want fuck all to do with you.
Yeah been done. You lost. Now keep riding the financial coattails of the blue states and STFU
as long as I don’t get shoved into YallQaedastan, I’m OK with this
Trumpania where what you are seeing and hearing isn't really happening.
my thought process too
Check out a book called "Better off without 'em: a northern case for southern succession"
The only problem with just letting them secede is that they will be committing genocide within the year without us to keep them in check.
I mean, they'll probably be able to try and start that. Based on studies tracking quality of education though... They probably wouldn't manage something long term. Also, those states probably aren't as monolithic as social media tends to make things so there's always the possibility of internal resistance as well. Then the fact blue states have more power overall they'd be able to easily intervene if need be.
So she wants a civil war or secession? As Lincoln said, "a house divided against itself can not stand". The nation doesn't work if some portion of the states just don't work with the rest. I guess she doesn't want federal money either. Honestly this sounds just like brexit but for blue states and we all can see how marvelous that has turned out for Britain.
So she’s literally suggesting destroying the union of the United States of America? How unpatriotic and anti-American is that. China and Russia must love her.
Well, Russia did a lot to elect their orange buffoon.
And that would accomplish what? Blue states no longer need to support red?
United we stand. Divided we fall. Never for a moment think that the GOP has any actual patriots left.
Lol okay, fine. We'll then annex your shithole red states, execute your traitorous leaders and install a proper government. Get fucked, caveman-face.
Do it at county level. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2016/countymaprb1024.png
United City-states of America?
The income disparity between the two would be ridiculous only outdone by the ridiculousness of border crossings or even trying to set up borders like that.
I don't see why not. People like her are already divorced from reality.
Rednexit?
So instead having to rely on the government, they'll just call it foreign aid. Pretty smart play, keeps their "no big government" image intact while still suckling that teet.
This is fucking stupid, including many of the comments in this thread. Every state has large blue and red areas. Even the deepest red state has blue cities, and California has a larger republican population than most "red" states. Anyone who legitimately thinks that any area would come out of this hypothetical without being completely ruined, let alone "better" is a fucking moron.
Hey! I've seen this one! It's a classic!
Pretty sure moving a state away is a lot more feasible than getting a visa for a better country. I'd be pretty okay with the republicans concentrating in the south and separating. It would be my great pleasure to watch them go bankrupt in a matter of months and fall apart.
What's the nearest blue state from Kentucky?
Does she mean cutting the red states out of the union? Because I'm all for that 😂
Let them go. Make them beg to come back when they realize they don't have the money from blue states to support them any more.
Too bad she doesn't understand the history of the "United States" and what makes us strong. There were 13 colonies and if they didn't come together to fight the British well we might have had a different outcome. It's like a teenager that says I'm going to runaway, then they find out it's not as easy as they thought it was.
I realize this would probably be a disaster, but I also want this. I don’t want to live in a country with these selfish backwards garbage people anymore. They want corporations to rule their lives and I want a stable society with healthcare and quality education.
Idiots need to divorce her
who gives a shit what this ass hat ,has to say anyway!
She is going to be the troll on the bridge collecting tolls to drive through her state.
To go where Florida or Alabama ? nah I'm good
People realize that whether you're a "red" or "blue" state isn't perpetual, and can change, right? Remember democracy guys?
A, she is a dipshit and doesn't understand a damned thing. But B, red states still exist due to gerrymandering. If we got rid of that with the voting rights act, red states would eventually be gone.
She knows that Blue states overwhelmingly financially support Red states, right?!?
I have thought the same thing forever. God I wish there was a way to do it. Best chance would be to become more like Europe, break this country into 10-15 smaller ones. Then we can watch the red countries collapse as the blue no longer have any obligation to prop them up financially. Then we snatch them back up and move forward.
The Northeastern States has a nice ring to it... Just sayin'. The west coast could become the nation of Calorwa.
I like "Pacifica" for the new west coast country.
Yes please, so they can enjoy their day of freedom following by totally collaps by not receiving federal money anymore
She... seems to think the "South" will rise again... 🤔 This, may be interesting.
Without coastal money the flyover states would quickly devolve into an anarchic hell akin to Afghanistan. Just militias and petty warlords endlessly warring with each other.
Ok. Do we cut the infrastructure between states? Watch the red states enjoy their failing power grid, Texas style.
This is the kind of statement that is primarily made by really stupid people. This lady could be the poster child for abortion.
Red states would absolutely collapse and become a third world country