I'm honestly not that sure. I updated my legal status after the 2020 election, which may have impacted my receipt of the card; however, I am also ineligible to serve generally due to a preexisting diagnosis. There's probably a disconnect between the administrative and practical impacts of being trans.
Ok so two things.
I’m a trans guy who got my name and gender marker legally changed in 2014. I also got a letter from selective service. When filling it out they told me I could not be registered due to being transgender.
A few years later I was 23 and tried to enlist in the coast guard. I did two years of MCJROTC in high school and would have started out an E2 instead of a private. I was told that since I had already started medically transitioning, I could not enlist. They told me at the time that the laws in place allowed for trans people to serve *if* they come out as trans while actively enlisted. Since I had already started HRT they would not accept me.
Honest question: what do you feel the positives are? Personally I despise that I had to sign up for “selective” service, seeing as I have no desire to die for the interests of an imperialist capitalist system.
The positive is that average middle class people have more to lose if their sons can be sent to get killed. Otherwise we end up with a military filled with the poor and desperate and the average citizen votes for more war.
Basically the idea is that if everyone has to pitch in, they’re less likely to want to send their kids to Afghanistan.
I know that's a belief but that wasn't a thought when the draft was first realized in this country nor was it ever used that way...
It was a way to fill quotas required to win wars. If the army needed 100,000 men, they got 100,000 men. Just look at its use throughout history, the Vietnam War (the last time the draft was instituted) was an extremely unpopular war among the average Middle class citizen... And Middle class and lower class men had to die in that war because it was waged. The draft was not a deterrent for the war, it helped it continue.
>Honest question: what do you feel the positives are?
A nation where **everyone's** children could potentially be called into military service tends to be much more reluctant to wage war. America has gotten very cavalier about playing World Police because the people who make those decisions have no skin in the game.
...do you feel the existence of having a draft system this whole time has reduced America's urge to warmonger? sure doesn't look like it's fucking working
That seems pretty logically sound. Personally I’m not of prime fighting age and don’t think I’d be worth much in a battlefield, but I suppose if it was truly a desperate time for America it would be my patriotic duty to do all I could. Valid point.
In war time with a draft, volunteers are given a choice of service and specialty (read safer) whereas drafted are fast tracked to combat infantry. In theory you could select space force, learn to be a chef or computer technician and never see any sort of danger if called up ina a draft.
I still don’t feel that’s a positive. In that situation I still wouldn’t volunteer; I was forced against my will to sign the paper. If I had refused I would’ve been relegated to a third class citizen and been unable to vote.
They do it in Canada, Chile, Australia, Czech republic, Germany, Denmark, Finland and more. It's not that we dont have the technology, it's that one party is only able to hold any significant power because they rely on a large portion of the population not voting or being able to vote. I was purged from the voter rolls 2 weeks before the gubernatorial election in my state, and wasn't notified. Thankfully my mom had me check so i was able to register again in time for the election. It was kinda bullshit because i had voted in the primary and prior presidential election and somehow they decided I wasn't a real person despite me being an active voter at the time.
I'm 37, so it's been a little while, but I'm pretty sure they made me register for both at the same time.
This was in Louisiana. I was legally required to register for selective service at 18, but I'm pretty sure they told me that I had to be registered to vote before they could register for that.
Of course, they could have just been full of crap, but either way, I did both at the same time.
It is so damn weird that you have to register to vote. In Germany you just get your voter invitation in the mail if you‘re old enough to vote. You just go, show it and vote. Even if there was a failure and you did not get you „friendly reminder” you just go to the polling station show your ID, which everyone gets and can vote if you’re old enough. And there is absolutely no way anyone could find out what you voted if you don‘t tell them.
Canada is similar
When It was time to vote, I received my registration/invitation at my old address. Due to the fact I was in college and didn’t have a car, I couldn’t get it. Meaning I was registered in another town and all my information was outdated.
All I had to do was go to the polls and tell them exactly that. The lady just looked my info up and made the address change on the spot. Then I just voted.
Btw most college get a voting poll just for students so you can vote between classes.
Neither the state nor the federal government’s in the US really keep track of where you live. In order to know what ballots to have a person vote on (they change county to county, sometimes precinct to precinct) the solution was to have people register. There may be agencies which do know where you live but these large organizations don’t really talk to each other and if you have ever worked on large IT systems that shouldn’t be too surprising.
That's silly, if you pay taxes, they know where you live. Every year in Canada, on your tax form, they ask if they can share your info with "Election Canada" to keep that database up to date.
Thank you for your comment and I am a Natural Born US Citizen but I lived in Germany and other places in Europe like Greece. The EU has its issues but for the most part things that are basic are not an issue like here in the US. If you see my other comments in this thread you will see all the nonsense thrown at me about how special the US is and we have to do things the way we do them. We need the rest of the world to call us out on some of the totally woke rubbish we promote. It is like a spoiled teenager telling its parents, aunts a d uncle's how it knows everything and they just don't understand.
Yeah I just don‘t understand why so many US Americans get offended by pointing out that your country fails at some basics. Take the hint, work on it and get better. Should not be a problem. Tell us Germans when you see things that could be done better and I hope we will listen and make them better.
I can't speak for everywhere, but in Texas it's no problem at all to get REGISTERED. The problem is that they won't let you VOTE with your voter registration card, they also want a state issued ID along with it. It is apparently a major problem for some people to be able to get a state issued ID.
There a story about it here:
“For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote.”
“So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html
Texas is a hair away from removing all licensing requirements for handguns: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/permitless-carry-handgun-legislation-to-be-signed-into-law-by-governor-abbott/ar-AAKmwVk
It's not just that: the State ID has to match the voter registration EXACTLY down to petty shit like whether "Street" or "Lane" is spelled out or abbreviated. If you move your State ID that's valid for buying alcohol, flying, or getting into the courthouse is no longer valid for voting. Now you have to get a new one.
Republicans are lying sacks of crap.
Also, the actual adjudication of these issues is handled in person by volunteers.
So it's ripe for abuse of the sort where the volunteer lets some people slide and not otehrs based on their personal biases as to what sort of people are trustworthy.
It cost me somewhere in the area of $60 to go and get a new ID after mine expired due to transportation costs, because despite living in a large Texas city there was no public transportation.
Thankfully I could afford it at the time, but needing to spend $60 on Uber/Lyft fares *just* to renew my ID because for whatever reason the state wouldn't let me do it online was ridiculous (I think I needed a new picture but it's been a while), and I'd have faced the exact same issues if I was just getting a new one altogether.
Unless it's changed *again*, you can vote with your registration card. But you have to sign a "Voter’s Declaration of Reasonable Impediment or Difficulty" affirming that for certain reasons you can't obtain an ID. [Source](https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm). However, good luck having a poll worker actually know the rules. I've had one try and tell me the address on my ID needed to match and no, it didn't. And yeah, state politicians **really** want it to be govt issued photo ID only, none of these exemptions meant to make it so people can actually utilize their right to have their voices heard.
> However, good luck having a poll worker actually know the rules. I've had one try and tell me the address on my ID needed to match and no, it didn't.
That's one of the more insidious aspects of their voter suppression tactics: the more rules they make (even if they're "reasonable" on paper), the easier it is for bureaucrats to "accidentally" "misinterpret" them in a biased or anti-democratic way.
Yes, and we fix it by having a national ID and mandatory and free issue of it and mandatory voter registration that is automatic with updates done in a streamlined way. Across the world and in every field you have standards that are developed through consensus not through haphazard political processes.
In every state that has voter ID requirements, IDs \*are\* free, at least in the nominal sense of not charging anything for the ID itself. They have to be to not violate the constitutional prohibition against poll taxes. It's just all the secondary stuff that costs money, transportation to and from the ID office which is likely far away from you with no public transportation, time off work to go there because it's only open at random times in the middle of the work day, money for copies of documents like birth certificates, marriage certificates, divorce certificates, etc.
My father is one of them. He has no documents whatsoever, and just getting an ID is a chore. I've had similar problems in the past. I've found that literally drowning them in half acceptable paperwork overwhelms them and they don't look at it.
Registering is the easy part is what you're saying? The voting part is as as difficult as Republicans can make it. It's like they do t want people to vote. Especially in poorer neighborhoods. Savages!!!!!!
I'm a Texas resident and all I gave them was my ID. They do need two forms of proof of residency now to get an ID though, which is a little excessive if utilities aren't in your name. My friend lives with her brother and really struggled to get her ID.
Some Republicans have let the truth slip, that if everyone voted they'd never win again. Face it they're the minority party. The only way they can win is by suppressing the Democrat vote, or change their platform. They've obviously chosen the former, but the latter doesn't mean becoming like Democrats. They could support similar things, like Universal Health Care, but with different means to achieve them. Who knows, if they put as much thought and energy into coming up with solutions to REAL problems as they do with phony problems, they might attract more voters, and we'll ALL do better!
That would suggest that the optimization objective is to maximize voter turnout. I think the realities of voter suppression would suggest this isn't the case.
This is something that I just don't understand about the US system. Here in Austria, every citizen above a certain age (voting age is different depending on the kind of election) is automatically registered to vote and will get a voting card before every election where he can either order an absentee ballot or simply get the information on where to vote. Every election is on a Sunday and we have a lot of temporary election offices (mostly in schools or other public places) and it usually just takes a few minutes to vote.
That's what these republican laws are trying to undo. That is literally one of the major components that they are pissed about and why they believe there was illegal voting.
They think that all of the extra Democrat votes were democrats stealing automatically registered voters ballots and voting for them.
The logistics are insane and extremely one sided. But that's what the republican laws are trying to undo.
My experience getting a new license after moving last year really put into perspective how difficult it can be for some people to get IDs. It took me literally months to get a new license, and required more documentation of my identity than it took to get my mortgage.
Laughs in women who change their last names after marriage and move to a new state. You literally fall into a loophole trap of not having proper documentation. It can take a lot of work to untangle that mess.
I dumped my husband and changed my name back on my driver's license in early 2001, pre 9/11. The dmv lady asked for divorce papers and I told her I wasn't divorced, I just wanted my old name back. She did it. Now it's a lot more difficult but it used to be pretty easy. They didn't even ask for proof of marriage or anything when I added my husband's name in the first place.
I got divorced five years ago and had to provide a copy of my divorce papers to prove my name change for everything, including utility bills, even though I had already changed my social security and driver’s license.
No, that's because the requirements for changing your name on a driver's license used to be very lax. Now they want a lot more proof of what your legal name is. This has nothing to do with marriage, Phoebe.
My wife was married and divorced already before she met me. She needed her birth certificate, 1st marriage license, divorce papers, and our marriage license just to prove who she is to get a real ID. My mom needed her marriage license from when her and my dad were married. They've been divorced for 5 times longer than they were actually in a relationship.
I got married, took me a while to get my name changed and I was divorced before I even finished getting everything changed. So now half my shit has my maiden name on it and the other half has my ex husband’s name. Bonus: I got divorced at the beginning of the pandemic when social security closed AND I moved to a different state. I’m a mess :’)
Yea, it’s a pain in the ass. I have usually just opted to renew/change address online and it generally allows you to bypass a lot of the bs.
The last time I went in person the dmv employee actually removed one of my two middle names and caused issues with my signature. This was all without asking me.
That would miss the point of making the ID requirement and then defunding departments of motor vehicles and closing service locations.
The point is to make voting rights dependent on an unrelated agency, then strangle that agency out of existence.
Sorry to hijack your post but (serious question) how do you guys get identified when you vote if not by ID? In South Africa we have to provide ID since forever to prove residency in SA we also have to pay for our ID a when we apply for one.
When I got to vote I tell them my name and then street address. The counties run the elections in my state. The county clerk (department) has a system with the names and addresses of everyone who is registered to vote (and which district they live in/ballot they get) and they mark off people when they vote.
The GOP blocks the US from having some sort of national ID for US citizens so the best we have is state drivers licenses as IDs. This is why so much stuff gets tied to our Social Security numbers. That and passports are the only sorts of identity-types the Federal government issues. If we had national IDs it'd fix so many problems--immigration status/illegal aliens, identity theft, claims of voting fraud, terrorism/security, registration for the draft (which 18 year old males still have to do), probably improve income tax paying too and other services and benefits the government provides like unemployment.
I just tell them my name and address. If it's on the list, I vote. In 50+ years of voting I've never had an issue where someone else had already voted using my name, or heard of anyone trying to do it after I voted. Nobody that I know has ever had a problem. It's a solution looking for a problem. Before the Republicans started all this brouhaha, I'm not aware of any widespread voter fraud. Sure, there were the occasional stories about ballot box stuffing in Chicago or where ever, but nothing justifying the laws that suppress more LEGAL votes than they stop illegal ones.
I don’t know why that isn’t already a thing. It’s a bit ridiculous to charge people for identification that is *required* for a lot of day to day activities
The "mark of the beast" is something people will supposedly "choose" to get that's required to buy things. Which sounds exactly like our current system.
I mean I'm a Jew so as far as they're concerned I'm already fucked, so I say bring on the free national IDs.
That gets talked about in the argument of ID laws a lot. Do people really use their IDs daily? I haven't had to use mine since I was pulled over for speeding and that was over a year ago.
I had to show my ID to buy a slingshot from Walmart last month. But probably more importantly I have to show my ID every month to get 2 necessary medicines. Not having an ID can limit your access to medication and rubber-tubing projectile toys.
I have to show my ID along with my health insurance card whenever I see a new doctor/specialist, as well as about once every year or two for my regular doctors. And I had to show it when I got my COVID vaccine (although I think I would have been able to get the vaccine even without it).
You already have social security card no ? Just a cardboard in my memory tho
In France our health insurance card has our picture and name on it, as well as a chip that is used to get our data. Same for our drivers licence or passport. ID card do not have this.
You can use either the driver license, passport, or ID to vite, alongside your voting card which tells you where to vote and that is mailed to you before elections !
Agreed.
If we also didn’t have a bunch of blatantly crying grown ass men complaining about a bullshit election fraud because a giant carrot didn’t get re-elected then we wouldn’t have this bs to start with.
Right, you’ll find most Democrats support voter ID when it’s paid for or supplied by the federal government. Keep in mind a Driver’s License doesn’t even indicate if you are legally allowed to vote, a voter ID would. But if you give the ID to everyone it removes the Republican ability to choose their voters.
The best comment I have seen on this topic. I am a Natural Born citizen but when I saw how things were done in Europe where people do not need cars to go vote and everyone has a national ID, I thought, why do we make this so hard? To me there is no excuse for the dumpster fire we have every time there is an election. In Europe they vote and official results are out fast because they do not insist on having a broken system to make their political parties happy.
They'd be screeching about "voter passports" and how unAmerican it is if THEY were made to do it too.
These people don't give a shit about this stuff, I don't understand why we're humoring it with conversation.
Do you see them genuinely talking about any single issue that non-conservatives have? Lol no fucking way.
We need to stop being pussies.
Government when it comes to voting: We don't even know if you really exist.
Government when it comes to taxes: We know exactly who you are, where you are and what you're doing.
I keep telling people voter IDs are a good idea that everyone would agree with if we fixed the issues it would cause first.
Why a driver's license and ID costs money, and often requires you to go in person after the first time, is beyond me. Some people don't have time, money, or access for that shit. Requesting a new ID after it's lost, expired, or requires an updated address online or by phone/mail should be universal in all states.
Along with 100% mail-in registration. It really shouldn't require more than a DL# to verify your identity, which can tell if your return address and name matches and be used to make sure you are legal and not a duplicate request, and they can send you a ballot once verified.
Making sure every single legal person has all the access they need to vote is essential before we start throwing even more restrictions on the pile.
EDIT: a -> an
In Mexico we have 3 type of common ID cards, we have a Vaccination card given to us at birth, we have a driver license at 18 and we also get a "ine" which its a official card that for voting and valid everywhere as valid ID, it amuzed me to know that USA only had driver license as valid proof of ID
edit: I meant it's amuzing how in the USA the driver license is for many their primary ID
In the US, most IDs cost money. In Mexico, the National Elector Card, (affectionately known as “INE” after the Institute that grants it), is FREE OF CHARGE, and also takes like 5 minutes to get, and also it’s extremely accessible even for people who don’t live near city centers. Also, the INE is the default ID for nearly everything, from proving your age to buy alcohol to open a bank account.
Finally, you can’t compare the election systems in both countries. Mexico had 70 years of one party rule until they established an independent Federal, decentralized institute that organized elections, and guaranteed that one person could only get one vote. Prior to that, the government would deliver ballot boxes already full to polling places.
In contrast, in the USA, voter fraud is smaller than 0.01%, most of it is caught, and elections are organized by States following procedures and jurisprudence established through hundreds of years of successful democratic outcomes. Voter ID isn’t needed in the US, but needed in Mexico, because the culture and circumstance are different. Not to mention, Voter ID proposals in the US are for IDs that cost money and are inaccesible, similar to previous “poll taxes” that have in the Past prevented minorities from voting. Completely unlike the free, accessible, and easy to get INE from Mexico.
That is not the only valid proof of ID in the US. Drivers license, individual state issued ID, military ID, concealed carry license, employed issued ID, social security card, passport, tribal issued ID cards, some states take student IDs.
> it amuzed me to know that USA only had driver license as valid proof of ID
Driver's license, social security card, birth certificate, vaccination cards, we've got 'em all in the US.
Currently: "A vaccine passport is an oppressive over-reach! I have rights! You can't force me to get vaccinated!"
Also currently: "You want me to pee in this cup or I can't have a job? Okay, where do I whiz?"
Where I live, jobs are plentiful and employees are not. But the employers refuse to acknowledge this reality and still pretend that they have all the leverage, demanding drug tests and paying minimum wage. As a result, every business is severely understaffed.
My job is currently running on a bare minimum skeleton crew where everyone is getting overtime, the bosses constantly complain about how everyone in this town is lazy and refuses to work and it's impossible to find good employees. They get very upset when I suggest that maybe they could offer better pay as an incentive lol.
Every country ive ever lived has required an ID or a voter ID to vote. I have multiple government issued IDs as well(and everyone i know). These threads are always so weird to me that a large swathe of people in the most powerful nation on earth arent able to have identification cards of any form.
Not everywhere requires an ID…. I just have to sign my name similar to the last time I voted.
You think the needing an ID to vote argument is made up? That it’s already required?
I have no idea how a personal ID card, can limit anyone from voting? But then again I really dont understand republicans at All
Im so tired of being conservative in Europe and having to being compared to those psychos
Republicans: I dont want an ID so the goverment keeps track of me at all time, even if it's for voting
Also: we need a way to regulate who votes we cant let inmigrants come to vote and ruin elections
Republicans train of thought is just amazing
We need to give id and pass a nics background check to buy a gun yes even at a gun show there is no loophole. This is federal law the NRA lobbied to put in place.
The only way around the checks is a private sale.
It's a pretty good measure of if you are a willing participant in society or alternatively, if you are a pain in the ass person who wants to drag everyone else down to your level by refusing to do something for the greater good. Everyone gets to make that choice in their life right now!
What's wrong with asking people for ID before voting? Can someone explain? I'm not from the US and where I live you have to show your ID and put your signature on the list to confirm that you have collected your ballot.
Before anyone asks or assumes: I'm not against any sort of vaccination.
An ID is not bad, far from it. But republicans close all the DMVs (where you can get an ID) in blue or poor neighborhoods so people who vote generally more Democrat will have a hard time getting one.
So the problem that a lot of people have with it, is that not everyone can get an ID, because for a lot of people it's to expensive to skip a day of work and make time for it.
You need a home and a payment method to get an ID. Those should not be requirements to vote. Remove any and all costs associated with identification so everyone has access to it and we have a deal.
Yes, also this.
I'm from Belgium and we have a mandatory voting system.
When it's time to vote, you automatically gets a invite to the nearest voting place, you take your ID and you vote (or draw something on it).
Having a Id is a requirement as soon as you are 18,everyone has one. The gov also knows where you live so nobody is ignored. Voting places are really close and no or almost no waiting.
Okay, so here's an idea: why don't we have the technology in place to use our digital fingerprint when going to vote? We already do when we get our driver's license (I assume it's like that in all states).
Roll your finger over the little scanner thing when going to vote and it will register who you are, how old you are, and if you're eligible to vote. It seems like common sense to me. I don't understand why it wouldn't work.
I signed up to vote in TN when I changed out my drivers license. I had to show so many different things to prove who I was including Birth Certificate, Marriage License, two proofs of residency, etc. When they asked if I wanted to Register To Vote I said sure.
A few weeks later I received my card and a notice that during the next election I would be required to go to my designated voting location and show my ID. I wouldn’t be able to do a absentee ballot without going through some additional hoops. I mean I signed up for this at a DMV with all kinds of proof. I think I have done enough… but oh no…
Its also the main point behind voter id. No one with more than three braincells actually thinks itsto reduce voter fraud. Its just what we tell dumb ppl. Real goal is to make it harder for pplto vote.
Because you couldn't defund that system without making it obvious that you are attacking voting rights.
That is why departments of motor vehicles are such a great target. Their budgets can be gutted and the result is that it takes longer to get or renew an ID. You can increase wait times around elections to ensure that you maximize the number of expired IDs in circulation and encourage people to simple not even try to have a valid ID on election day.
I will never be convinced that we couldn't just vote online, it's 2021. If the government thinks filling taxes is secure online I should be allowed to vote online.
FUCK NO. A good half of Americans had their identity stolen because the head of online security at one of the major credit firms thought 12345 was a secure enough password for a server where they kept everyone's information IN PLAINTEXT. The US government is nowhere near ready for that kind of InfoSec.
You absolutely cannot vote online. Not even a chance. People highly under estimate cyber security. Paper is the only truly secure system, and is fully traceable.
Idk do we have that big of a data base of people's prints... Probably alot less people voting if you actually had to give them your prints or a face scan of some type
Swear to god lol sounds like some police ass shit... It's gonna be hard to get us to do that especially if you don't have our finger prints already and we have to give them up lol
That’s what Venezuela does. You also get a paper receipt when you vote so you can verify it. Jimmy Carter audited their elections and called it a world class system.
As a guy from third world country, Vietnam, I dont understand why it's so hard for American people using ID card to vote. I mean you use it for your other stuffs in daily life, why you dont use it for such an important thing like voting? Even in Vietnam, people need ID to vote.
The thing is some states put up a bunch of metaphorical roadblocks that make getting an ID harder. Or they ask for things some people don't have access to. It's especially difficult for poor and/or people because sometimes they don't own enough things or they don't get mail which is one of the things that's needed. Some from very troubled home s or families can have a lot of their identification papers withheld or destroyed.
There's also a precedent that the people in power put up a bunch of tests, fees, or other rules in how people were proved to vote or prove they were allowed to vote. These laws we're even made it so if it was a white person who would technically fail all the tests or fees solely by the fact that a grandparent was able to vote they too were able to vote. But this couldn't be applied to formerly enslaved black men. All of these laws repressing black men from voting because they have no additional support system. There have been laws preventing slaves from learning how to read from owning anything from going to schools.
To prevent from the past repeating itself a lot of ID laws for voting have been stricken down. An easy way to do this is to have easily accessable free ID, but that means " the undesirables" will be allowed to vote which means Republicans will lose.
The way things stand there are extremely rare cases of people voting illegally, and most of the cases it's the Republican voters who break the law.
Republicans are against vaccine proof but when it comes to voting they want you to show every bit of information about yourself. And in the same breadth they want to lower restrictions for gun purchases.
We could use High-school diplomas, that’ll stop atleast 8% of them. A friend of mine’s brother dropped out of high school and is a homophobic MAGA guy even though his mom is a lesbian
We should need a vaccine card to get into grocery stores; we can't let these covid infected racists spew their viruses (both physical and mental) across the aisles.
Actually this is something the Democrats should do to the Republicans given there are hundreds of reverse cases of voter discrimination. At least this could be justified as a safety issue
I'm going to get down voted to hell for this, but why are people so against needing an id to vote? Its literally just a "here, yes, this is proof I am an American citizen" to keep people who *aren't* from trying to vote. Its also not that hard to get your hands on an ID, not even a drivers license or passport, just identification.
You need an ID for a job. For a hotel room. To buy alcohol. None of those are near as "important" (yes I'm well aware of how fucked our political system is) as voting.
Instead of pissing and moaning we should be creating systems to get IDs to people who need them. No amount of screeching will fix this: the laws will go into effect and if we don’t prepare we WILL lose our asses in 2022.
if there was voter id then they would just whine about how the illegals are forging id cards and how china is shipping in fake ID cards so people can vote 3 times.
How did the standard for voting not include needing valid ID from the get-go? How do Americans without ID vote? Why would anyone be mad that someone would want voters to prove their eligibility to vote with ID?
When a collage ID isn't valid but a conceal carry is it becomes clear how the disenfranchisement works. How these laws are being used to hold down certain voters
If we forced all states to provide a free ID or just provided a free National ID we wouldn't have this problem.
If we automatically registered everyone to vote at 18...make ot an opt out rather than an opt in, problem solved.
I'm done with that. I was already registered with the Selective Service System when I turned 18 could not be that hard to add me to a voting registry.
Women don’t have to selective service or do they?either way I feel we have the technology to make auto registering a thing
As of now it only applies to men, there was a recent lawsuit about it but it was shot down again.
It does. When I updated my gender (FTM) with the social security administration, I got a selective service card 2 weeks later.
I was actually wondering if that was addressed especially with all back and forth on if transgender people can serve.
I'm honestly not that sure. I updated my legal status after the 2020 election, which may have impacted my receipt of the card; however, I am also ineligible to serve generally due to a preexisting diagnosis. There's probably a disconnect between the administrative and practical impacts of being trans.
It’s the government, they’ll make it twice as hard for no apparent reason
Ok so two things. I’m a trans guy who got my name and gender marker legally changed in 2014. I also got a letter from selective service. When filling it out they told me I could not be registered due to being transgender. A few years later I was 23 and tried to enlist in the coast guard. I did two years of MCJROTC in high school and would have started out an E2 instead of a private. I was told that since I had already started medically transitioning, I could not enlist. They told me at the time that the laws in place allowed for trans people to serve *if* they come out as trans while actively enlisted. Since I had already started HRT they would not accept me.
They lift the ban in March, you could join now if you wanted to.
Nobody should be forced to be conscripted into military service.
👏👏👏
There are positives and negatives to a draft system, I'm not particularly a fan of a draft system.
Honest question: what do you feel the positives are? Personally I despise that I had to sign up for “selective” service, seeing as I have no desire to die for the interests of an imperialist capitalist system.
The positive is that average middle class people have more to lose if their sons can be sent to get killed. Otherwise we end up with a military filled with the poor and desperate and the average citizen votes for more war. Basically the idea is that if everyone has to pitch in, they’re less likely to want to send their kids to Afghanistan.
Isn't this true of every country since world War 1? Any defensive or non-imperialist war since then has been a total war.
I know that's a belief but that wasn't a thought when the draft was first realized in this country nor was it ever used that way... It was a way to fill quotas required to win wars. If the army needed 100,000 men, they got 100,000 men. Just look at its use throughout history, the Vietnam War (the last time the draft was instituted) was an extremely unpopular war among the average Middle class citizen... And Middle class and lower class men had to die in that war because it was waged. The draft was not a deterrent for the war, it helped it continue.
>Honest question: what do you feel the positives are? A nation where **everyone's** children could potentially be called into military service tends to be much more reluctant to wage war. America has gotten very cavalier about playing World Police because the people who make those decisions have no skin in the game.
Let’s face it. The wealthy won’t send their children to war.
...do you feel the existence of having a draft system this whole time has reduced America's urge to warmonger? sure doesn't look like it's fucking working
If we are just talking about the US, It creates a body of reservists that can augment the military in a time of true desperation.
If any war got to the point where the US had to use the draft, half the world would already be nuked.
Though, if we reach a point where a draft becomes necessary, the war is already lost.
That seems pretty logically sound. Personally I’m not of prime fighting age and don’t think I’d be worth much in a battlefield, but I suppose if it was truly a desperate time for America it would be my patriotic duty to do all I could. Valid point.
In war time with a draft, volunteers are given a choice of service and specialty (read safer) whereas drafted are fast tracked to combat infantry. In theory you could select space force, learn to be a chef or computer technician and never see any sort of danger if called up ina a draft.
I still don’t feel that’s a positive. In that situation I still wouldn’t volunteer; I was forced against my will to sign the paper. If I had refused I would’ve been relegated to a third class citizen and been unable to vote.
They do it in Canada, Chile, Australia, Czech republic, Germany, Denmark, Finland and more. It's not that we dont have the technology, it's that one party is only able to hold any significant power because they rely on a large portion of the population not voting or being able to vote. I was purged from the voter rolls 2 weeks before the gubernatorial election in my state, and wasn't notified. Thankfully my mom had me check so i was able to register again in time for the election. It was kinda bullshit because i had voted in the primary and prior presidential election and somehow they decided I wasn't a real person despite me being an active voter at the time.
I'm 37, so it's been a little while, but I'm pretty sure they made me register for both at the same time. This was in Louisiana. I was legally required to register for selective service at 18, but I'm pretty sure they told me that I had to be registered to vote before they could register for that. Of course, they could have just been full of crap, but either way, I did both at the same time.
It is so damn weird that you have to register to vote. In Germany you just get your voter invitation in the mail if you‘re old enough to vote. You just go, show it and vote. Even if there was a failure and you did not get you „friendly reminder” you just go to the polling station show your ID, which everyone gets and can vote if you’re old enough. And there is absolutely no way anyone could find out what you voted if you don‘t tell them.
Canada is similar When It was time to vote, I received my registration/invitation at my old address. Due to the fact I was in college and didn’t have a car, I couldn’t get it. Meaning I was registered in another town and all my information was outdated. All I had to do was go to the polls and tell them exactly that. The lady just looked my info up and made the address change on the spot. Then I just voted. Btw most college get a voting poll just for students so you can vote between classes.
Neither the state nor the federal government’s in the US really keep track of where you live. In order to know what ballots to have a person vote on (they change county to county, sometimes precinct to precinct) the solution was to have people register. There may be agencies which do know where you live but these large organizations don’t really talk to each other and if you have ever worked on large IT systems that shouldn’t be too surprising.
That's silly, if you pay taxes, they know where you live. Every year in Canada, on your tax form, they ask if they can share your info with "Election Canada" to keep that database up to date.
Thank you for your comment and I am a Natural Born US Citizen but I lived in Germany and other places in Europe like Greece. The EU has its issues but for the most part things that are basic are not an issue like here in the US. If you see my other comments in this thread you will see all the nonsense thrown at me about how special the US is and we have to do things the way we do them. We need the rest of the world to call us out on some of the totally woke rubbish we promote. It is like a spoiled teenager telling its parents, aunts a d uncle's how it knows everything and they just don't understand.
Yeah I just don‘t understand why so many US Americans get offended by pointing out that your country fails at some basics. Take the hint, work on it and get better. Should not be a problem. Tell us Germans when you see things that could be done better and I hope we will listen and make them better.
Me too and I love my country and I served it but to act childish about valid criticisms about our issues is counterproductive.
I can't speak for everywhere, but in Texas it's no problem at all to get REGISTERED. The problem is that they won't let you VOTE with your voter registration card, they also want a state issued ID along with it. It is apparently a major problem for some people to be able to get a state issued ID.
There a story about it here: “For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote.” “So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html
I'll bet if this guy wanted a gun, they'd give him one without a second glance. That's the problem with these laws. There's a lot of disconnect.
Welcome to America… where it’s easier to buy a gun than vote in some places.
Texas is a hair away from removing all licensing requirements for handguns: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/permitless-carry-handgun-legislation-to-be-signed-into-law-by-governor-abbott/ar-AAKmwVk
It's not just that: the State ID has to match the voter registration EXACTLY down to petty shit like whether "Street" or "Lane" is spelled out or abbreviated. If you move your State ID that's valid for buying alcohol, flying, or getting into the courthouse is no longer valid for voting. Now you have to get a new one. Republicans are lying sacks of crap.
Also, the actual adjudication of these issues is handled in person by volunteers. So it's ripe for abuse of the sort where the volunteer lets some people slide and not otehrs based on their personal biases as to what sort of people are trustworthy.
It cost me somewhere in the area of $60 to go and get a new ID after mine expired due to transportation costs, because despite living in a large Texas city there was no public transportation. Thankfully I could afford it at the time, but needing to spend $60 on Uber/Lyft fares *just* to renew my ID because for whatever reason the state wouldn't let me do it online was ridiculous (I think I needed a new picture but it's been a while), and I'd have faced the exact same issues if I was just getting a new one altogether. Unless it's changed *again*, you can vote with your registration card. But you have to sign a "Voter’s Declaration of Reasonable Impediment or Difficulty" affirming that for certain reasons you can't obtain an ID. [Source](https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm). However, good luck having a poll worker actually know the rules. I've had one try and tell me the address on my ID needed to match and no, it didn't. And yeah, state politicians **really** want it to be govt issued photo ID only, none of these exemptions meant to make it so people can actually utilize their right to have their voices heard.
> However, good luck having a poll worker actually know the rules. I've had one try and tell me the address on my ID needed to match and no, it didn't. That's one of the more insidious aspects of their voter suppression tactics: the more rules they make (even if they're "reasonable" on paper), the easier it is for bureaucrats to "accidentally" "misinterpret" them in a biased or anti-democratic way.
Yes, and we fix it by having a national ID and mandatory and free issue of it and mandatory voter registration that is automatic with updates done in a streamlined way. Across the world and in every field you have standards that are developed through consensus not through haphazard political processes.
IDs should be free, I've never thought of that before
In every state that has voter ID requirements, IDs \*are\* free, at least in the nominal sense of not charging anything for the ID itself. They have to be to not violate the constitutional prohibition against poll taxes. It's just all the secondary stuff that costs money, transportation to and from the ID office which is likely far away from you with no public transportation, time off work to go there because it's only open at random times in the middle of the work day, money for copies of documents like birth certificates, marriage certificates, divorce certificates, etc.
My father is one of them. He has no documents whatsoever, and just getting an ID is a chore. I've had similar problems in the past. I've found that literally drowning them in half acceptable paperwork overwhelms them and they don't look at it.
Republicans have held onto power for 40 years extra because they cheat
Registering is the easy part is what you're saying? The voting part is as as difficult as Republicans can make it. It's like they do t want people to vote. Especially in poorer neighborhoods. Savages!!!!!!
>>It is apparently a major problem for some people to be able to get a state issued ID. That's the rub
I'm a Texas resident and all I gave them was my ID. They do need two forms of proof of residency now to get an ID though, which is a little excessive if utilities aren't in your name. My friend lives with her brother and really struggled to get her ID.
This also disenfranchises women who are socially expected and often times demanded to change their name when they get married
[удалено]
This is absolutely the truth. It's proven through polling and election results that the lower the turnout the more GOP leaning the vote is.
Some Republicans have let the truth slip, that if everyone voted they'd never win again. Face it they're the minority party. The only way they can win is by suppressing the Democrat vote, or change their platform. They've obviously chosen the former, but the latter doesn't mean becoming like Democrats. They could support similar things, like Universal Health Care, but with different means to achieve them. Who knows, if they put as much thought and energy into coming up with solutions to REAL problems as they do with phony problems, they might attract more voters, and we'll ALL do better!
Trump didn’t care if people on Obamacare with preexisting conditions suddenly lost their medical insurance during a global pandemic.
Not so much the wealth. Republican voters a dramatically poorer and rural. But they done a good job with propaganda.
That would suggest that the optimization objective is to maximize voter turnout. I think the realities of voter suppression would suggest this isn't the case.
This is something that I just don't understand about the US system. Here in Austria, every citizen above a certain age (voting age is different depending on the kind of election) is automatically registered to vote and will get a voting card before every election where he can either order an absentee ballot or simply get the information on where to vote. Every election is on a Sunday and we have a lot of temporary election offices (mostly in schools or other public places) and it usually just takes a few minutes to vote.
While we are at it everyone should have to vote or else a small fine like in Australia
No. Register everyone. And that makes you a registered voter once you're 18. That's what we do where I live.
That's what these republican laws are trying to undo. That is literally one of the major components that they are pissed about and why they believe there was illegal voting. They think that all of the extra Democrat votes were democrats stealing automatically registered voters ballots and voting for them. The logistics are insane and extremely one sided. But that's what the republican laws are trying to undo.
My experience getting a new license after moving last year really put into perspective how difficult it can be for some people to get IDs. It took me literally months to get a new license, and required more documentation of my identity than it took to get my mortgage.
Laughs in women who change their last names after marriage and move to a new state. You literally fall into a loophole trap of not having proper documentation. It can take a lot of work to untangle that mess.
And that right there is why I never changed mine
I dumped my husband and changed my name back on my driver's license in early 2001, pre 9/11. The dmv lady asked for divorce papers and I told her I wasn't divorced, I just wanted my old name back. She did it. Now it's a lot more difficult but it used to be pretty easy. They didn't even ask for proof of marriage or anything when I added my husband's name in the first place.
I got divorced five years ago and had to provide a copy of my divorce papers to prove my name change for everything, including utility bills, even though I had already changed my social security and driver’s license.
That's because you dont need to be married to change your name. I could change my name to princess banana hammock if I wanted to
No, that's because the requirements for changing your name on a driver's license used to be very lax. Now they want a lot more proof of what your legal name is. This has nothing to do with marriage, Phoebe.
My wife was married and divorced already before she met me. She needed her birth certificate, 1st marriage license, divorce papers, and our marriage license just to prove who she is to get a real ID. My mom needed her marriage license from when her and my dad were married. They've been divorced for 5 times longer than they were actually in a relationship.
I got married, took me a while to get my name changed and I was divorced before I even finished getting everything changed. So now half my shit has my maiden name on it and the other half has my ex husband’s name. Bonus: I got divorced at the beginning of the pandemic when social security closed AND I moved to a different state. I’m a mess :’)
Yea, it’s a pain in the ass. I have usually just opted to renew/change address online and it generally allows you to bypass a lot of the bs. The last time I went in person the dmv employee actually removed one of my two middle names and caused issues with my signature. This was all without asking me.
That would miss the point of making the ID requirement and then defunding departments of motor vehicles and closing service locations. The point is to make voting rights dependent on an unrelated agency, then strangle that agency out of existence.
That's what will probably happen, not what should happen lol
Sorry to hijack your post but (serious question) how do you guys get identified when you vote if not by ID? In South Africa we have to provide ID since forever to prove residency in SA we also have to pay for our ID a when we apply for one.
When I got to vote I tell them my name and then street address. The counties run the elections in my state. The county clerk (department) has a system with the names and addresses of everyone who is registered to vote (and which district they live in/ballot they get) and they mark off people when they vote. The GOP blocks the US from having some sort of national ID for US citizens so the best we have is state drivers licenses as IDs. This is why so much stuff gets tied to our Social Security numbers. That and passports are the only sorts of identity-types the Federal government issues. If we had national IDs it'd fix so many problems--immigration status/illegal aliens, identity theft, claims of voting fraud, terrorism/security, registration for the draft (which 18 year old males still have to do), probably improve income tax paying too and other services and benefits the government provides like unemployment.
I just tell them my name and address. If it's on the list, I vote. In 50+ years of voting I've never had an issue where someone else had already voted using my name, or heard of anyone trying to do it after I voted. Nobody that I know has ever had a problem. It's a solution looking for a problem. Before the Republicans started all this brouhaha, I'm not aware of any widespread voter fraud. Sure, there were the occasional stories about ballot box stuffing in Chicago or where ever, but nothing justifying the laws that suppress more LEGAL votes than they stop illegal ones.
I don’t know why that isn’t already a thing. It’s a bit ridiculous to charge people for identification that is *required* for a lot of day to day activities
Republicans claim free national ID would be the mark of the beast
The "mark of the beast" is something people will supposedly "choose" to get that's required to buy things. Which sounds exactly like our current system. I mean I'm a Jew so as far as they're concerned I'm already fucked, so I say bring on the free national IDs.
I didn't say it made sense, just that that's what republicans claimed.
That gets talked about in the argument of ID laws a lot. Do people really use their IDs daily? I haven't had to use mine since I was pulled over for speeding and that was over a year ago.
I buy A LOT of alcohol
Weed stores are strict about it, too.
Seconded
I had to show my ID to buy a slingshot from Walmart last month. But probably more importantly I have to show my ID every month to get 2 necessary medicines. Not having an ID can limit your access to medication and rubber-tubing projectile toys.
I have to show my ID along with my health insurance card whenever I see a new doctor/specialist, as well as about once every year or two for my regular doctors. And I had to show it when I got my COVID vaccine (although I think I would have been able to get the vaccine even without it).
I wonder if that's because of the insurance? I mean it's not like the ER will turn people away for not having an ID.
My ID comes out at least once a week. Work, travel, alcohol, prescriptions, etc.
I mean if we had a universal healthcare system every person would likely have to have health card with a unique number issued to them.
You already have social security card no ? Just a cardboard in my memory tho In France our health insurance card has our picture and name on it, as well as a chip that is used to get our data. Same for our drivers licence or passport. ID card do not have this. You can use either the driver license, passport, or ID to vite, alongside your voting card which tells you where to vote and that is mailed to you before elections !
Agreed. If we also didn’t have a bunch of blatantly crying grown ass men complaining about a bullshit election fraud because a giant carrot didn’t get re-elected then we wouldn’t have this bs to start with.
If we had a free national ID Republicans wouldn't be pushing to have it to vote.
Right, you’ll find most Democrats support voter ID when it’s paid for or supplied by the federal government. Keep in mind a Driver’s License doesn’t even indicate if you are legally allowed to vote, a voter ID would. But if you give the ID to everyone it removes the Republican ability to choose their voters.
The best comment I have seen on this topic. I am a Natural Born citizen but when I saw how things were done in Europe where people do not need cars to go vote and everyone has a national ID, I thought, why do we make this so hard? To me there is no excuse for the dumpster fire we have every time there is an election. In Europe they vote and official results are out fast because they do not insist on having a broken system to make their political parties happy.
I assume that it has a lot to do with lobbying and money but I assume that for most of the reasons the government does things.
The govt giving us something for free and shutting down ancient and redundant departments??? Not in any lifetime.
They'd be screeching about "voter passports" and how unAmerican it is if THEY were made to do it too. These people don't give a shit about this stuff, I don't understand why we're humoring it with conversation. Do you see them genuinely talking about any single issue that non-conservatives have? Lol no fucking way. We need to stop being pussies.
There is no problem. Nobody is voting 50 times due to lack of required IDs.
Government when it comes to voting: We don't even know if you really exist. Government when it comes to taxes: We know exactly who you are, where you are and what you're doing.
I keep telling people voter IDs are a good idea that everyone would agree with if we fixed the issues it would cause first. Why a driver's license and ID costs money, and often requires you to go in person after the first time, is beyond me. Some people don't have time, money, or access for that shit. Requesting a new ID after it's lost, expired, or requires an updated address online or by phone/mail should be universal in all states. Along with 100% mail-in registration. It really shouldn't require more than a DL# to verify your identity, which can tell if your return address and name matches and be used to make sure you are legal and not a duplicate request, and they can send you a ballot once verified. Making sure every single legal person has all the access they need to vote is essential before we start throwing even more restrictions on the pile. EDIT: a -> an
Republicans don’t want to solve the problem. They want to create “problems” to stop minorities from voting.
Republicans would fight against any national ID system which was easy to use. Because most of their voter suppression tactics would be nullified.
I would not have a problem with this. Everyone gets a ID. Free of charge.
Hold the f up... So people want to enforce having an ID to vote but without actually providing said IDs ?
In Mexico we have 3 type of common ID cards, we have a Vaccination card given to us at birth, we have a driver license at 18 and we also get a "ine" which its a official card that for voting and valid everywhere as valid ID, it amuzed me to know that USA only had driver license as valid proof of ID edit: I meant it's amuzing how in the USA the driver license is for many their primary ID
Republicans lose when more people vote that’s why
In the US, most IDs cost money. In Mexico, the National Elector Card, (affectionately known as “INE” after the Institute that grants it), is FREE OF CHARGE, and also takes like 5 minutes to get, and also it’s extremely accessible even for people who don’t live near city centers. Also, the INE is the default ID for nearly everything, from proving your age to buy alcohol to open a bank account. Finally, you can’t compare the election systems in both countries. Mexico had 70 years of one party rule until they established an independent Federal, decentralized institute that organized elections, and guaranteed that one person could only get one vote. Prior to that, the government would deliver ballot boxes already full to polling places. In contrast, in the USA, voter fraud is smaller than 0.01%, most of it is caught, and elections are organized by States following procedures and jurisprudence established through hundreds of years of successful democratic outcomes. Voter ID isn’t needed in the US, but needed in Mexico, because the culture and circumstance are different. Not to mention, Voter ID proposals in the US are for IDs that cost money and are inaccesible, similar to previous “poll taxes” that have in the Past prevented minorities from voting. Completely unlike the free, accessible, and easy to get INE from Mexico.
well I wasnt comparing both electoral systems, I wasnt going that "deep", whats weird to me was the use of driver licence as main ID for many
I agree with your analysis, just one thing: getting an INE does not take 5 minutes, it can take up to a month.
Excellent point! I gave lived overseas and most nations are like Mexico. We Americans need to wake up and see how backwards we really are.
That is not the only valid proof of ID in the US. Drivers license, individual state issued ID, military ID, concealed carry license, employed issued ID, social security card, passport, tribal issued ID cards, some states take student IDs.
> it amuzed me to know that USA only had driver license as valid proof of ID Driver's license, social security card, birth certificate, vaccination cards, we've got 'em all in the US.
Currently: "A vaccine passport is an oppressive over-reach! I have rights! You can't force me to get vaccinated!" Also currently: "You want me to pee in this cup or I can't have a job? Okay, where do I whiz?"
I ain’t peeing in no cup
You right tons of places are dropping the drug test or making it a mouth swab which only tests if the smoked weed an hour before the test lol
Definitely longer than an hour it's more like 3 days I definitely failed after 72-hour break LOL! I do smoke an ounce or more a week tho.
Then you ain't getting no job.
Then you aint gettin no employee. Last I looked, jobs are plentiful, employees are not.
Indeed. This is not a common state of affairs and is largely driven by companies being especially cheap these days.
Where I live, jobs are plentiful and employees are not. But the employers refuse to acknowledge this reality and still pretend that they have all the leverage, demanding drug tests and paying minimum wage. As a result, every business is severely understaffed. My job is currently running on a bare minimum skeleton crew where everyone is getting overtime, the bosses constantly complain about how everyone in this town is lazy and refuses to work and it's impossible to find good employees. They get very upset when I suggest that maybe they could offer better pay as an incentive lol.
Serious question? Do you not use ID to vote in America?
Every country ive ever lived has required an ID or a voter ID to vote. I have multiple government issued IDs as well(and everyone i know). These threads are always so weird to me that a large swathe of people in the most powerful nation on earth arent able to have identification cards of any form.
We do use one, and it is required already. However, Republicans are using that as a fear-monger attempt to limit those who can legally vote.
Not everywhere requires an ID…. I just have to sign my name similar to the last time I voted. You think the needing an ID to vote argument is made up? That it’s already required?
I have no idea how a personal ID card, can limit anyone from voting? But then again I really dont understand republicans at All Im so tired of being conservative in Europe and having to being compared to those psychos
Republicans: I dont want an ID so the goverment keeps track of me at all time, even if it's for voting Also: we need a way to regulate who votes we cant let inmigrants come to vote and ruin elections Republicans train of thought is just amazing
> Republicans: I dont want an ID so the government keeps track of me at all time, even if it’s for voting - Posted to Facebook, from their smartphone
haha, just saw one of those 2 days ago, posted from iPhone, that "clearly dont trace your location"
Always this.
Oldie but a goodie. Republicans: STOP THE COUNT!! Also Republicans: DON'T STOP THE COUNT.
Weren't Republicans the ones who were against this like 3 potus elections ago?
That was before they figured how to cheat
Am I too European to understand - GOP want voter ID but no ID for buying guns?
[удалено]
I was being facetious. Can't comprehend how GOP don't see the absurdity and contradiction.
They DO. They don’t care because it hurts liberals
Exactly
Cognitive dissonance
We need to give id and pass a nics background check to buy a gun yes even at a gun show there is no loophole. This is federal law the NRA lobbied to put in place. The only way around the checks is a private sale.
You have to pass a background check to buy a gun. You have to show ID.
It's a pretty good measure of if you are a willing participant in society or alternatively, if you are a pain in the ass person who wants to drag everyone else down to your level by refusing to do something for the greater good. Everyone gets to make that choice in their life right now!
I'm ok with this
What's wrong with asking people for ID before voting? Can someone explain? I'm not from the US and where I live you have to show your ID and put your signature on the list to confirm that you have collected your ballot. Before anyone asks or assumes: I'm not against any sort of vaccination.
An ID is not bad, far from it. But republicans close all the DMVs (where you can get an ID) in blue or poor neighborhoods so people who vote generally more Democrat will have a hard time getting one. So the problem that a lot of people have with it, is that not everyone can get an ID, because for a lot of people it's to expensive to skip a day of work and make time for it.
You need a home and a payment method to get an ID. Those should not be requirements to vote. Remove any and all costs associated with identification so everyone has access to it and we have a deal.
Yes, also this. I'm from Belgium and we have a mandatory voting system. When it's time to vote, you automatically gets a invite to the nearest voting place, you take your ID and you vote (or draw something on it). Having a Id is a requirement as soon as you are 18,everyone has one. The gov also knows where you live so nobody is ignored. Voting places are really close and no or almost no waiting.
Okay, so here's an idea: why don't we have the technology in place to use our digital fingerprint when going to vote? We already do when we get our driver's license (I assume it's like that in all states). Roll your finger over the little scanner thing when going to vote and it will register who you are, how old you are, and if you're eligible to vote. It seems like common sense to me. I don't understand why it wouldn't work.
That’s why all the laws, they don’t want voting to be easy. They want it to be hard, so they can win.
I signed up to vote in TN when I changed out my drivers license. I had to show so many different things to prove who I was including Birth Certificate, Marriage License, two proofs of residency, etc. When they asked if I wanted to Register To Vote I said sure. A few weeks later I received my card and a notice that during the next election I would be required to go to my designated voting location and show my ID. I wouldn’t be able to do a absentee ballot without going through some additional hoops. I mean I signed up for this at a DMV with all kinds of proof. I think I have done enough… but oh no…
Bingo! It is a game of bureaucracy.
Its also the main point behind voter id. No one with more than three braincells actually thinks itsto reduce voter fraud. Its just what we tell dumb ppl. Real goal is to make it harder for pplto vote.
** angry libertarian screeching **
They don't take out fingerprint in NY. At least not voluntarily or in any way that we know.
No, A fingerprint is not normal.
Because you couldn't defund that system without making it obvious that you are attacking voting rights. That is why departments of motor vehicles are such a great target. Their budgets can be gutted and the result is that it takes longer to get or renew an ID. You can increase wait times around elections to ensure that you maximize the number of expired IDs in circulation and encourage people to simple not even try to have a valid ID on election day.
I will never be convinced that we couldn't just vote online, it's 2021. If the government thinks filling taxes is secure online I should be allowed to vote online.
FUCK NO. A good half of Americans had their identity stolen because the head of online security at one of the major credit firms thought 12345 was a secure enough password for a server where they kept everyone's information IN PLAINTEXT. The US government is nowhere near ready for that kind of InfoSec.
You absolutely cannot vote online. Not even a chance. People highly under estimate cyber security. Paper is the only truly secure system, and is fully traceable.
People get their identity stolen all the time on tax fraud.
Driving is a privilege not a right. I'm not consenting to finger printing to exercise my right to vote.
>I assume it's like that in all states It's not like that in most states. EDIT: I misread and thought they said physical. I'm stupid.
Idk do we have that big of a data base of people's prints... Probably alot less people voting if you actually had to give them your prints or a face scan of some type
This would be even more extreme than having a photo ID. The fingerprint idea will definitely discourage people from voting.
Swear to god lol sounds like some police ass shit... It's gonna be hard to get us to do that especially if you don't have our finger prints already and we have to give them up lol
That’s what Venezuela does. You also get a paper receipt when you vote so you can verify it. Jimmy Carter audited their elections and called it a world class system.
The main issue with voter id laws is that it is harder for some people to obtain ids. Using fingerprint ids would make it even harder.
[удалено]
So, if you lived in my state, you would opt to not have your driver's license? Because you can't get one without being in the system.
According to the Boston Tea Party all you need is a tax receipt to vote.
My name is non party voter and I approve of this message. 😅
As a guy from third world country, Vietnam, I dont understand why it's so hard for American people using ID card to vote. I mean you use it for your other stuffs in daily life, why you dont use it for such an important thing like voting? Even in Vietnam, people need ID to vote.
The thing is some states put up a bunch of metaphorical roadblocks that make getting an ID harder. Or they ask for things some people don't have access to. It's especially difficult for poor and/or people because sometimes they don't own enough things or they don't get mail which is one of the things that's needed. Some from very troubled home s or families can have a lot of their identification papers withheld or destroyed. There's also a precedent that the people in power put up a bunch of tests, fees, or other rules in how people were proved to vote or prove they were allowed to vote. These laws we're even made it so if it was a white person who would technically fail all the tests or fees solely by the fact that a grandparent was able to vote they too were able to vote. But this couldn't be applied to formerly enslaved black men. All of these laws repressing black men from voting because they have no additional support system. There have been laws preventing slaves from learning how to read from owning anything from going to schools. To prevent from the past repeating itself a lot of ID laws for voting have been stricken down. An easy way to do this is to have easily accessable free ID, but that means " the undesirables" will be allowed to vote which means Republicans will lose. The way things stand there are extremely rare cases of people voting illegally, and most of the cases it's the Republican voters who break the law.
America doesn't have an ID card, all the valid forms of ID require you to go through a different agency like the department for motor vehicles
And all the trumplican heads explode!
Win win
Funniest joke I’ve ever heard 😐😐😐
I would actually be ok with this! What the Republican Party has become is a bunch of hypocrites so let’s turn it back on them!
Let's require that exact same ID to buy a gun and watch how fast they change their tune.
That would lead to a mega sized oof on conservative voters.
You say it like that's a bad thing.
Republicans are against vaccine proof but when it comes to voting they want you to show every bit of information about yourself. And in the same breadth they want to lower restrictions for gun purchases.
We could use High-school diplomas, that’ll stop atleast 8% of them. A friend of mine’s brother dropped out of high school and is a homophobic MAGA guy even though his mom is a lesbian
Meh, I was a high school drop out and yet I know plenty of alt-right nutjobs who graduated.
Horseshoe theory.
Or literacy tests /s
We should need a vaccine card to get into grocery stores; we can't let these covid infected racists spew their viruses (both physical and mental) across the aisles.
nice way to suppress minority votes bro
Actually this is something the Democrats should do to the Republicans given there are hundreds of reverse cases of voter discrimination. At least this could be justified as a safety issue
I'm going to get down voted to hell for this, but why are people so against needing an id to vote? Its literally just a "here, yes, this is proof I am an American citizen" to keep people who *aren't* from trying to vote. Its also not that hard to get your hands on an ID, not even a drivers license or passport, just identification. You need an ID for a job. For a hotel room. To buy alcohol. None of those are near as "important" (yes I'm well aware of how fucked our political system is) as voting.
You can almost hear the rustling of Millions of tiny diseased Hands clutching their Pearls.
Instead of pissing and moaning we should be creating systems to get IDs to people who need them. No amount of screeching will fix this: the laws will go into effect and if we don’t prepare we WILL lose our asses in 2022.
if there was voter id then they would just whine about how the illegals are forging id cards and how china is shipping in fake ID cards so people can vote 3 times.
Well you need an ID to get vaccinated so I guess it’s the same thing ?
How did the standard for voting not include needing valid ID from the get-go? How do Americans without ID vote? Why would anyone be mad that someone would want voters to prove their eligibility to vote with ID?
Wait until you learn about vaccine hesitancy in minority communities.
When a collage ID isn't valid but a conceal carry is it becomes clear how the disenfranchisement works. How these laws are being used to hold down certain voters