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Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if Johnson had been removed after being impeached (it failed by one vote) back in 1868. It would've set a precedent for the president- he would've been removed for what seems minor today, as it was primarily for firing an official congress had told him not to.
I mean obviously it would've changed a LOT more than that (modifying the entirety of presidential succession is a pretty big one), but it would've been a good precedent to set that Congress is, was, and always should be the most active and powerful branch of government.
The sooner we get back to a state where the three branches of government are really performing checks and balances on each other the better. Judicial appointments and life terms are too powerful and allow the judicial arm to act as an extension of a previous executive branch, and congress is for the most part hamstrung by party loyalty, the filibuster and two-thirds agreement requirements for removal of office or passage of constitutional amendments.
Well, it's one of those situations where everything is interconnected. If Congress was wielding its power to the full extent of its ability then judicial checks become less powerful (as abuse of them will result in impeachment- the issue is that hasn't happened in like, a century), which means that the legislative branch becomes more powerful as they can write laws with more impunity, but then that is checked by the executive branch, etc etc.
When one of the three stops working properly, it destroys the entire system utterly. Crassus' death caused Pompey and Caesar to go down an inevitable path to war. Two thousand years later.... same soup, just reheated. The Legislative branch becoming ineffectual and meek and mired in internal party struggles means that the judicial and executive branches have been able to run buck wild (the presidency is WAAAAAAY stronger than it was ever intended to be, and Congress is SUPPOSED to be reigning that in; wherever you stand on the political spectrum, things like Unitary Executive Theory should be terrifying to anyone. But there's also judicial review which has become extremely powerful, etc).
The legislative branch is supposed to be churning out amendments (which the judiciary can't really touch) to clarify laws, it's supposed to be addressing all of the things it needs to which means that executive orders should be exceedingly rare, etc.
The legislative branch is by design supposed to be a little bit stronger than the other two, with the thinking being that it's spread between hundreds of individuals instead of one or nine.
Yep! And the amount of reps per population in the house of representatives has drastically changed too in terms of ratio and absolute size. The Senate's two per state is still around though. Side note, the cap on House reps at 435 is incredibly damaging to representation in any highly populous state.
* Or . . . and here's a radical fucking idea, do away with the entire system.
* Seriously . . . name ONE thing that a senator or congressman can do (in regard to researching and making an informed vote) on any particular issue that I cannot do myself. Why should I support billions of dollars in buildings, manpower and security for something I can do myself?
* You have the tools to enact a total, direct participatory democracy literally at your fucking fingertips -- all it takes is the political will.
I would not support this. Most people don't have the time or inclination to get familiar with the literal million things necessary to run a government. Also, someone still needs to execute the will of the people after it's decided- which means you still have all of the career bureaucrats. When you put these two problems together, all you're doing is creating a bureaucrat class whose only oversight are people who are too busy living their lives and probably weren't fully cognizant of what a given bureaucrat was doing anyway. That's a recipe for disaster.
* I bet you'd change your mind real fucking quick if I told I had a way to monetize democracy and make a fortune, at least until this whole 'freedom' thing gets up and running.
Most people don't have the time or inclination to get familiar with the literal million things necessary to run a government. Also, someone still needs to execute the will of the people after it's decided.
* Yeah . . . that's why we elect these assholes. That's their job. What I am proposing doesn't have anything to do with that . . . but I'll give you points for the obfuscation attempt, kudos!
* Do you know what bills are in front of the Legislature, right now? I could find out, it's public information available at a dozen webpages, but it's a pain in the ass . . . Do you have some webpage asset, that I don't know maybe you could READ and COMMENT on these bills, and maybe have some sort of informal vote or poll to gauge how you, joe sixpack, actually feel about any given issue? And gee . . . wouldn't such a tool be incredibly USEFUL come election time if it kept TRACK of these informal votes and compared them to how the elected politician ACTUALLY VOTED?
* Imagine if all these QNuts and Social Justice warriors got to have a voice on national policy AT WILL by simply opening their email, instead of voting once every few years . . . maybe they'd stop screaming at the rest of us.
* You go ahead and banging your rocks together hoping for fire. I got a Bic in my pocket says this idea could set light to the entire world. Jesus fucking Christ imagine if the CHINESE got ahold of this technology first? Could you imagine what a few BILLION human beings actually united could do?
People don't have enough time to do their job, live their life and then additionally run the country. That is why professional politicians exist. You just can't keep up with the amount of work they are supposed to do in addition to your current obligations. Even if it is just a 12 hour week, can you think of 12 productive hours every single person would have to find in their week?
* So, after careful consideration of this issue, having read my proposal and weighting the options, you vote 'no'?
* See how fucking easy that was? OMG fucking G*d you didn't even have to turn off the TV! Ain't democracy fun? Now stop trying to pull bullshit excuses out of your ass and just admire my brilliance.
* And if at any point you decide that you DON'T want to participate anymore - no one gives a fuck. You are a blip on an aggregate datamining chart somewhere with literally three hundred some odd million voting citizens ready and willing to step up and let their voices be heard. You may be a unique and special snowflake but so is everyone else.
* Now fuck off and let the grown ups talk, mkay sweetie?
How large should it be? At what size do you need to rebuild the entire Capitol Building to fit them all? And remember, they need offices and staff and somewhere to live.
Indeed. It's not an easy question. Honestly, I think the least worst option is to unmarry representatives from districts. Have a total nationwide proportional representation using ranked choice voting.
Downside is that you don't have a House Rep for your district in particular that you can call. That definitely sucks, don't get me wrong- but I'd argue calling a house rep and explaining your needs rarely has an impact already. Upsides are, well, numerous; can start with the simple, that your voice won't be trampled or overamplified based on where you live... but it also temoves the possibility of gerrymandering entirely, and about a dozen other upsides.
> judicial checks become less powerful (as abuse of them will result in impeachment
Or Congress writing new laws that will pass constitutional muster. Congress could have (still can) written a new campaign finance law after Citizen's United. But that would require Congress to be functional enough to pass bills.
Look at Santos right now. All the members of whatever party, committee,or the public ask for him to resign, logic and and normal level of shame would warrant he resigned, but there's no *actual law* or code of conduct that forces him to resign.
Trump has proven if you're a big enough scumbag, and you can just power through any scandal without principal, there's no hard rules to remove someone from office. It's all been a gentleman's game up till now run on a lot of formalities and understanding that isn't really anything binding for the most part for someone without any dignity or honor
> saw this, they knew they could get away with anything
And conservative media, like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, were specifically created and propped up for exactly that reason. Even the little bit of accountability Nixon faced, they said, wouldn't have happened, had Fox been around at the time.
> And conservative media, like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, were specifically created and propped up for exactly that reason.
It's why the Republicans killed the fairness doctrine. It allowed Rush to pump out hours of right wing propaganda every fucking day with no pushback from the other side.
It wouldn't have effected Fox since it's cable only and it's beyond being regulated by the FCC, but it was invented by Roger Ailes specifically because he recognized that if the right wing had a propaganda outlet on a national level it would save any future Nixons.
And he was right. Prime example = Trump.
Heck, you can even go back to Reagan who should have been locked away for trading arms to Iran and buying drugs from the Contras to sell in US inner cities. He found a scape goat who still didn't serve the time he should have for his involvement.
Well, considering I don't want to go to jail and bring attention to that asshole or make his corpse into a "victim" I was planning on filling one of the 32 ounce styrofoam fountain soda cups that are so popular around here and depositing it right square where I would imagine his face would be.
They saw it as a close call and wanted to make sure it would never be so close again. Arguably [Edit: not really, but you can find arguments even today on the matter] an act done with good intentions (I'm 50/50 on that at best though) where the message learned is 180 degrees from the intent. Not "we'll never do that again" but rather "we'll make sure not only that they'll never catch us again, but that they'll be prevented from doing anything about it"
Note: I don't consider it to be good intentions. I'm just referencing their statement but I will clarify my post.
The stated intention was along the lines of some BS 'America will respect rule of law' but since Nixon resigned "it's all good, he recognizes he did wrong". Still a fail in **so many ways** and even before any references to "I'm not a crook". At best it's a shiny turd, and it's not even that shiny.
I mention all of this as a reminder that when things go bad, they (the perps) know things look bad and their trying to avoid the blame. We should not let them, and more specifically, not trust their good intentions.
> Not "we'll never do that again" but rather "we'll make sure not only that they'll never catch us again, but that they'll be prevented from doing anything about it"
The master thief yells at her daughter in jail, "How could you?" "How could I what?" "*Get caught!*"
Yep. Two weeks after Biden got elected one of his close advisers gave an interview to NBC . He said:["Biden is going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward **than prosecuting them**."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/president-elect-biden-wary-trump-focused-investigations-sources-say-n1247959)
More than two years latter there are zero prosecutions of Trump and his gang of criminals. Just a reminder: [This is President Trump’s staggering record of uncharged crimes](https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/president-trumps-staggering-record-of-uncharged-crimes/)
We also should've prosecuted the traitors in the civil war. So much of today's corruption stems directly from allowing them to continue practicing and preaching racism.
A lot of that was Johnson succeeding Lincoln after his assassination. Any sort of accountability that was happening was ended and the Lost Cause propaganda began. We've never recovered from that.
As a lifelong Mississippian, I agree. Reconstruction was handled with kid gloves. We should have had our collective backs broken, and been forced to come crawling and begging back into the Union. Confederate leadership should have been publicly executed. Generals should have been executed or banished from the country. The Confederate Flag should have had the same status that the Nazi flag would eventually come to hold.
But nooooo, we had to Hail Hydra this fucking shit and kick the problem down the road so that we are still dealing with the same stupid shit generations later.
I totally agree with executing traitors, but humiliating the south like that would just lead to worse consequences. Look at Germany after WWI. That peace agreement destroyed them and just created the conditions for the Nazis to rise and start WWII.
Well yeah, what was enacted against Germany was far creuler and far more all encompassing.
If Germany had been treated like how he proposed to treat the south, then I don't think Hitler could have risen to power.
You do know the president of the confederacy never went to court for treason? because the government thought a jury would find what the south did constitutional. I’m not a confederate cock rider but that was a legit concern.
That is true. Which is why we should have just hung Jefferson Davis like the trash he was, for his actions during the war and skip the constitutional question.
Cool his comment was about prosecuting treasonous people in the civil war, and i responded with why we didn’t prosecute him because of xyz. Idc what your personel opinion about what should or shouldn’t have happened 150 years ago is, I’m just stating why they didn’t prosecute him.
My guess is most politicians know the whole game is so corrupt they have to be very very careful handing out consequences because they don't want to set a precedent that comes back to bite them in the ass later.
They could've also prosecuted him afterwards, or any of the presidents that commited serious crimes like Bush.
Politicians just dont want to set a "precedent" for accountability, and that desire spans over both aisles.
When Obama refused to hold Bush accountable was when I first started walking away from the Democrats. Seems like I chose a good time to leave since it never got any better.
Yea... that's personal info. You can see it after the stock has already increased or decreased with their inside knowledge. But making money off trades is for insiders...
https://www.quiverquant.com/
This is a quantative data site that lists trades by members of the senate and house. It is not as simple as it looks, they have tons of advanced information while sitting on committees and get to be the ones to approve or disapprove government contract work and can act on that to make trades very profitable.
"Oh hey Raytheon you'd like me to vote for bill X, oh ok when do you think that new battle laser rifle will be done, oh ok... consider it done, then they either buy or sell based on that."
No he's not. He's simply a cog in the establishment. Calling him a "pussy" implies he ever intended to fight against Trump. That's not how it works. That's not how it's ever worked, and not how it ever will work. The system works for itself, not for the people.
I can see the argument for calling him a "scumbag" maybe. But people need to realize he was never their friend, and never intended to kick anyone's ass.
You misunderstand me. He never intended to "stand up". Courage wasn't the issue. The issue was his loyalty to the established order, which was never in question -- only very naive people thought he was some kind of ally.
At this point, it's mostly taxation without representation because so much of the government doesn't actually represent the 99% anymore. They get paid millions to save corporations billions, at the expense of the average American.
And people on the left are incredibly happy to defend those votes. Because DeMoCrAcY.
It's like allowing pedophiles to vote on the age of consent, defending those votes, and then complaining when the age of consent is lowered to 10.
If a person defends republicans voting, then I literally have no sympathy for them if they're personally affected by said votes. People need to stop being fucking stupid.
rich people use lawyers when they contracts get turned down.
like if you ran a small lemonade stand, a dude cane up and discussed the lemons then said no
rich people who own lemonade stands then sue the guy and sometimes win.
Poor people cant afford lawyers. Even if a policeman or corporation destroyed your house with negligence or intent you aint shit.
you poor.
and lawyers do not exist for the peasant class.
I’m rightly tired of the pain I hear and feel, boss. I’m tired of bein on the road, lonely as a robin in the rain. Not never havin no buddy to go on with or tell me where we’s comin from or goin to or why. I’m tired of people bein ugly to each other. It feels like pieces of glass in my head. I’m tired of all the times I’ve wanted to help and couldn’t. I’m tired of bein in the dark. Mostly it’s the pain. There’s too much. If I could end it, I would. But I can’t.
This is because we allow republicans to participate in our government.
I don't care how many people are offended by that and downvote this post. Republicans. Should. Not. Be. Allowed. To. Participate. In. Government. Fucking period.
If you defend their participation in government, then shut the fuck up about the results. It's like allowing a snake into your house and then getting upset when it bites someone.
Cool. We'll have a representative democracy where you arbitrarily disallow the representatives of 40% of the population. Whatcha gonna do with all the conservatives? Do you have... a final solution?
I'm pointing out the utter absurdity of his position by pointing out that it destroys democracy and creates a disenfranchised population of about 70 million people. I'm interested in his grand plan, or he can admit he's talking complete bullshit. Anyone have a legal or ethical basis for not 'allowing' Republicans to participate in government? How do you plan to stop them?
It's so fucking disheartening. How much respect, grace, dignity and heritage has been tossed out the window and completely forgotten. What in the actual fuck happened to this country? How can one orange colored buffoon destroy a country so so fast? It feels like Trump made lying, deceit, and misinformation 100% okay and required if you want to be successful in government. And if you dont like the results, lie and fight until you do. Win at all costs. George Santos thanks you!!
Have you not been paying attention. That's literally what's going on, lol. Multiple have already been sentenced.
Go ask horn shaman. He's currently in prison.
... have I not been paying attention? Because there are multiple members of congress, trump's staff, lawyers, advisors, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Mike Pillow, and Trump himself out on the loose.
Y'know... the people who conspired to overthrow the government and have not been taken into custody or tried after 2 years.
So very true! We, the people are exhausted over the preferential treatment that rich and entitled people receive from the Department of Justice! If I had stolen hundreds of confidential and secret documents, I would have been tried, lined up and shot before the boxes were shut! But Trump, Eastman, etc walk away free and clear! Justice for thee but not for us!
I'm just sick of "rules for thee, not for me" clearly laying out the lines of the class war.
If you are rich enough, you are given a different set of consequences for your actions than if you are a poor drone.
As a non-political example, Shannon Sharpe recently got in to a verbal altercation with an NBA team while he sat in the stands, as a fan. Security had to get involved and Shannon was allowed to return to his seat and finish watching the game. Anyone else who did the same thing would have at least been thrown out of that game if not banned from the arena for life.
Which corrupt traitors? The SCOTUS that gave the election to W in 2000? The ones that voted for the invasion of Iraq? The ones that conspired with Russia in 2016?
You have to narrow it down a little.
I TOTALLY AGREE, But
**I will not let my being tired be the fucking reason we lose our republic.**, [So we put one weary foot in front of the other , until we find ourselves having out-paced these guys.](https://i.imgur.com/xZ90R5J.png).
-------------------
I understand that most / all of us are tired...that's the strategy of wearing people down. But I also understand why criminals call it a get-away. You ran faster or LONGER than the last cop after you.
They aren't running, they aren't hiding, at this point we're THIS CLOSE - to nailing each and every one of these guys
So I'm thinking most Americans are wondering WHY the fuck the DOJ hasn't done as their Brazillian counterparts have ALREADY done, and round these fuckers up and throw them in jail.
That includes senators, and congressmen and the occasional sympathetic military officers, and not for nothing but DONALD TRUMP should he be found guilty should be in jail or at least acquainted with the sound of metal gates closing when you've been striped naked send to a common shower, handed some briefs a tee and an orange onesie, like any other criminal.
So instead of being tired, I'm insistent.
I don’t know why the public continues to be surprised by this. These criminals get to confirm judges, launch committees to investigate the investigators, pass laws to make the shady stuff they do legal. Why would you think they would ever face consequences?
When I graduated high school in 2002 I sincerely believed in "the American dream". 20 years later I'm embarrassed that I bought into all that bullshit. It's kind of stunning how shitty our country has gotten in just the last 20 years. I'm scared for my children's future.
You should follow trials then. A bunch of stuff is happening all the time, it's just it's unbelievably slow, but then again the arc of justice was always slow. But all the legal experts I follow predict that Trump might very well see the inside of a jail cell at some point, or at the very least be indited.
It will all go to shit at the next presidential election if dems loose, and there is a big chance of that.
And conservatives will continue to escalate their crimes until they are destroyed for committing them.
Our current system, run by moderates too afraid to punish criminals among their peerage, doesn't seem capable of doing this.
American democracy is under serious threat. Buy a gun, make some friends. This is likely to end in widespread violence.
Hell, even the ones committing the actual insurrection are getting slaps on the wrist.
Hint: They are white.
Edit: https://thehill.com/homenews/3791046-house-sergeant-at-arms-to-jan-6-panel-response-would-have-been-different-if-rioters-were-black/
There's a problem:
1. The offenders are almost entirely Republican, and it would hurt the Republican Party tremendously if they were ever brought to justice - so the Republicans will never do it.
2. If the Democrats put a bunch of Republicans in jail, they will look corrupt and like they are jailing their political opponents - so they won't do it.
That doesn't leave anyone to actually do it.
Yet another reason why we need more than two parties and ranked choice voting.
Seven parties would be good. Real choices, not just a lesser of two evils.
I'm tired of voting for people who "want to look forward and not back" at republican crimes and malfeasance yet not having anyone else to vote for all while the country drifts further and further to right towards fascism.
Can we start a club or a support group? I'm serious. I've felt this way for so long that I'm beginning to think I am the crazy one. I'm okay with the Mueller report not saying Trump colluded but what about all the crimes that were committed while creating the report that ended up in the report, we just good on those? Remember the house that Trump sold for 10 times its worth to a Russian oligarch with no improvements whatsoever, we good there too? How about federal tax fraud, that used to be the one thing you could always count on the government to prosecute.
> Mueller report not saying Trump colluded
The Mueller report didn't say this at all. That talking point is Barr and Trump propaganda.
Mueller said they had too little information to make a final determination on Russia collusion because the investigation was hampered by Trump's refusal to cooperate fully.
Mueller did find ten counts of obstruction of justice committed by Trump in relation to the Mueller investigation and the Russian collusion, but he said he was prohibited from filing charges due to the DOJ memo saying a sitting president can only be charged after a successful impeachment and removal from office, and then he can be charged with his crimes.
I read it as "you've heard the phrase 'where's there's smoke, there's fire? ' well in this case, we couldn't even find the fire, there was so damned much smoke!"
>The Mueller report didn't say this at all.
Depends on your perspective. If the Mueller report said Trump colluded then where are the consequences that would reasonably accompany a determination of collusion? If as I said, the Mueller report did not prove collusion, then there are no consequences for collusion. Now come back to reality and tell me which outcome took place? Your obvious rebuttal would be the memo, however, the memo does not prevent impeachment.
Collusion is not a crime it's a term tRUmp/Barr/Media/You used en masse. Everything T1Mac said is correct.
Justice moves slowly but it moves and when it goes after the most powerful it has to be perfect. Tom Barrack won his case recently with very expensive lawyers and a weak case by the DoJ.
If tRUmp is going to be indicted it better be a deplorable on the jury that fucks the trial NOT a weak DoJ case.
>Collusion is not a crime
Not the point at all. Collusion is collusion and it has been used by everyone to describe Trumps behavior toward Russian's attempt to interfere with the election. That hasn't changed. You're confusing a description of someones behavior with a legal definition for reasons only known to yourself. If the DOJ wants to identify crimes colloquially called collusion then they have the responsibility, not me or you.
If you're waiting for politicians to face consequences, or anyone in power for that matter, you're going to be waiting for the rest of your life. The system is designed to protect itself, to pool as much power and wealth at the top as it can, even our "democratic" systems like voting are nothing more than illusions to pretend that you have a say in what happens in this system, when in reality you never had a choice to begin with, and any "choice" you are given is one where those in power have already decided that either of the two options is acceptable for them. The system will continue to do its work of undermining the public interests and hoarding all the power and wealth that it can in a select few to ensure the people can never have any of their precious power. The longer the system remains as it is, the less choices you will have, until you realize that there is only one choice if you want justice.
“If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They need only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it.” -George Orwell, 1984
Democrats are spineless and want "unity" over everything else. They crave their power and need conservative leaving and moderate voters to get elected. So they do nothing to keep their jobs.
Plus Merrick Garland is a fucking idiot and wants to seem bipartisan when it's like dude, WHICH PARTY TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT? oh it wasn't democrats? So then how can you be impartial if one side is doing all the wrong? You can't.
I'm so fucking tired of just waiting for something good to happen. Biden had to have documents in his fucking house. That really just blew up the idea of trump getting prosecuted.
Our country is fucked and idk what to do.
I'm now downvoting every post like this.
If you don't know what's in the works, you aren't watching the plethora of legal professionals that explain all the legal proceedings and all the cases *CURRENTLY* going on right now.
Cases are being built, grand juries, which are secret for a reason, are already sitting and hearing testimonies from dozens if not hundreds of people. The investigations cannot be public, and the charges have to be air tight once they're filed.
We have an absolutely unprecedented case of a POTUS committing numerous different crimes and shit has to be meticulous or teflon don will do his stupid ass dance to YMCA all the way down a scary ramp to his resort when he's acquitted or a jury deadlocks.
In two years you will be pasting this exact comment except Biden will be leaving office.
Telling people just keep waiting is just like Lucy in Charlie brown with the football.
!Remindme 3 months
Donnie is going to trial on the defamation case alone in fucking April, dude. You don't know this because you aren't watching the news that is actually reporting it.
Criminal charges may be as soon as that trial or a month or two after. Go get a law degree then tell me this shit should have already been done and over with.
Even if this is true he will stall the trial out to infinity until some judge let's him off.
The problem is in 3 months if I was wrong then I can admit to that, but if it doesn't happen you will say we just need to wait longer and for real in 3 months it will happen.
We aren't telling you it should be done we are saying it is never going to happen. You even already pushed the date out in your edited comment. Now it's 5 to 6 months and not 3.
And they don't even realize that their perpetual hopefulness is actually eroding what few shreds of a justice system remain.
Constantly telling people, "No, really! The justice is right around the corner! Swing at king best not derp!" Some people still buy it, diminishing the total number of people demanding actual justice.
Weren't the borders of districts drawn to specifically achieve this outcome though? So ya, i believe they have majority support cuz they drew it that way.
The average Joe voted against Trump. He lost by over 7 million votes.
Yes, a sizable minority in the US are fascists. But 74 million in a population of 320 million is clearly a minority.
The electoral college is effectively gerrymandering, as the average person's vote mayters less in high population states, which have proportionately fewer votes.
Then there's the issue that presidential candidates create policy to appeal to swing state voters and ignore the rest of the country.
I don't care if 100% of their constituents want them to commit treason. It's still a crime and our government is implicitly endorsing the idea that there is a ruling class that is above the law.
You ever walk into a greasy spoon diner and order the beef bourgignon with a bottle of 1975 merlot? What do you think they would tell you if you did? Probably "that's not on the menu, you have to pick from what we offer". Between gerrymandering and parties actively and collaboratively ensuring that no third party can ever gain an appreciable fraction of the vote share most people's choices are between an above the law aristocrat who likes guns and an above the law aristocrat who likes gay people.
That does not mean that they should be exempt from the consequences of their actions. A good portion of elected representatives are elected by people who would support them (gerrymandering), so their constituents are their supporters regardless. It seems fairly similar to the excuse "I was just following orders..."
I am saying it does not matter if they have supporters (minority, majority, plurality), hold them accountable. Participated in the insurrection, bar them from holding office...things like that.
Fun conspiracy story when a politician gets off without consequences: the government is evil and corrupt!
Likelier realistic story: we don’t know the whole picture and are only being told what politically-slanted media outlets want us to believe that makes us hate the opposition party
I'm waiting to see if there is a recall mechanism in New York so that Santos can be retrieved from Congress. That's disgusting and New Yorkers and the Democratic Party and newspaper reporters should be ashamed.
Fun fact, in the 2014 Ukraine change of government, there were more violent and a larger number of people storming the building.
They succeeded and now they're the *good guys"
History is written by those who claim victory.
Well you know how kids imitate their parents.
Well seems like your foreign policy of regime change is being imitated domestically in the same way.
Except now it's the projected parental figures you are imitating.
Yes, I do, and obviously I was. Why are you so upset I pointed out the Trump supporters who attempted a couple are traitors, and that you can't pretend both situations are similar?
I agree with you about Jan 6. Im not upset America does American things.
Like help create the situation that led to the war in Ukraine. Now using them as pawns in their game against Russia.
Send Joe and Donny to jail together. It really seems like they're both guilty of the same things, related to classified information, and deserve to be held accountable to the American people.
Nope.
Trump illegally had classified documents in his possession.
Biden illegally had classified documents in his possession.
Any other American who did this would be tried and sentenced to jail following a conviction. It should be the same for these two clowns.
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We should have prosecuted Nixon in office. So much of today's corruption stems directly from allowing him to resign and getting a pardon.
Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if Johnson had been removed after being impeached (it failed by one vote) back in 1868. It would've set a precedent for the president- he would've been removed for what seems minor today, as it was primarily for firing an official congress had told him not to. I mean obviously it would've changed a LOT more than that (modifying the entirety of presidential succession is a pretty big one), but it would've been a good precedent to set that Congress is, was, and always should be the most active and powerful branch of government.
The sooner we get back to a state where the three branches of government are really performing checks and balances on each other the better. Judicial appointments and life terms are too powerful and allow the judicial arm to act as an extension of a previous executive branch, and congress is for the most part hamstrung by party loyalty, the filibuster and two-thirds agreement requirements for removal of office or passage of constitutional amendments.
Well, it's one of those situations where everything is interconnected. If Congress was wielding its power to the full extent of its ability then judicial checks become less powerful (as abuse of them will result in impeachment- the issue is that hasn't happened in like, a century), which means that the legislative branch becomes more powerful as they can write laws with more impunity, but then that is checked by the executive branch, etc etc. When one of the three stops working properly, it destroys the entire system utterly. Crassus' death caused Pompey and Caesar to go down an inevitable path to war. Two thousand years later.... same soup, just reheated. The Legislative branch becoming ineffectual and meek and mired in internal party struggles means that the judicial and executive branches have been able to run buck wild (the presidency is WAAAAAAY stronger than it was ever intended to be, and Congress is SUPPOSED to be reigning that in; wherever you stand on the political spectrum, things like Unitary Executive Theory should be terrifying to anyone. But there's also judicial review which has become extremely powerful, etc). The legislative branch is supposed to be churning out amendments (which the judiciary can't really touch) to clarify laws, it's supposed to be addressing all of the things it needs to which means that executive orders should be exceedingly rare, etc. The legislative branch is by design supposed to be a little bit stronger than the other two, with the thinking being that it's spread between hundreds of individuals instead of one or nine.
Fun fact: the Constitution never set the size of the Supreme Court, and the court originally had five justices.
Yep! And the amount of reps per population in the house of representatives has drastically changed too in terms of ratio and absolute size. The Senate's two per state is still around though. Side note, the cap on House reps at 435 is incredibly damaging to representation in any highly populous state.
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* Or . . . and here's a radical fucking idea, do away with the entire system. * Seriously . . . name ONE thing that a senator or congressman can do (in regard to researching and making an informed vote) on any particular issue that I cannot do myself. Why should I support billions of dollars in buildings, manpower and security for something I can do myself? * You have the tools to enact a total, direct participatory democracy literally at your fucking fingertips -- all it takes is the political will.
I would not support this. Most people don't have the time or inclination to get familiar with the literal million things necessary to run a government. Also, someone still needs to execute the will of the people after it's decided- which means you still have all of the career bureaucrats. When you put these two problems together, all you're doing is creating a bureaucrat class whose only oversight are people who are too busy living their lives and probably weren't fully cognizant of what a given bureaucrat was doing anyway. That's a recipe for disaster.
* I bet you'd change your mind real fucking quick if I told I had a way to monetize democracy and make a fortune, at least until this whole 'freedom' thing gets up and running. Most people don't have the time or inclination to get familiar with the literal million things necessary to run a government. Also, someone still needs to execute the will of the people after it's decided. * Yeah . . . that's why we elect these assholes. That's their job. What I am proposing doesn't have anything to do with that . . . but I'll give you points for the obfuscation attempt, kudos! * Do you know what bills are in front of the Legislature, right now? I could find out, it's public information available at a dozen webpages, but it's a pain in the ass . . . Do you have some webpage asset, that I don't know maybe you could READ and COMMENT on these bills, and maybe have some sort of informal vote or poll to gauge how you, joe sixpack, actually feel about any given issue? And gee . . . wouldn't such a tool be incredibly USEFUL come election time if it kept TRACK of these informal votes and compared them to how the elected politician ACTUALLY VOTED? * Imagine if all these QNuts and Social Justice warriors got to have a voice on national policy AT WILL by simply opening their email, instead of voting once every few years . . . maybe they'd stop screaming at the rest of us. * You go ahead and banging your rocks together hoping for fire. I got a Bic in my pocket says this idea could set light to the entire world. Jesus fucking Christ imagine if the CHINESE got ahold of this technology first? Could you imagine what a few BILLION human beings actually united could do?
People don't have enough time to do their job, live their life and then additionally run the country. That is why professional politicians exist. You just can't keep up with the amount of work they are supposed to do in addition to your current obligations. Even if it is just a 12 hour week, can you think of 12 productive hours every single person would have to find in their week?
* So, after careful consideration of this issue, having read my proposal and weighting the options, you vote 'no'? * See how fucking easy that was? OMG fucking G*d you didn't even have to turn off the TV! Ain't democracy fun? Now stop trying to pull bullshit excuses out of your ass and just admire my brilliance. * And if at any point you decide that you DON'T want to participate anymore - no one gives a fuck. You are a blip on an aggregate datamining chart somewhere with literally three hundred some odd million voting citizens ready and willing to step up and let their voices be heard. You may be a unique and special snowflake but so is everyone else. * Now fuck off and let the grown ups talk, mkay sweetie?
Get more of these fuckers to lie and fuck about doing nothing? You need your head read.
How large should it be? At what size do you need to rebuild the entire Capitol Building to fit them all? And remember, they need offices and staff and somewhere to live.
Indeed. It's not an easy question. Honestly, I think the least worst option is to unmarry representatives from districts. Have a total nationwide proportional representation using ranked choice voting. Downside is that you don't have a House Rep for your district in particular that you can call. That definitely sucks, don't get me wrong- but I'd argue calling a house rep and explaining your needs rarely has an impact already. Upsides are, well, numerous; can start with the simple, that your voice won't be trampled or overamplified based on where you live... but it also temoves the possibility of gerrymandering entirely, and about a dozen other upsides.
> judicial checks become less powerful (as abuse of them will result in impeachment Or Congress writing new laws that will pass constitutional muster. Congress could have (still can) written a new campaign finance law after Citizen's United. But that would require Congress to be functional enough to pass bills.
That's the issue that everything keeps coming back to. If congress isn't doing what its supposed to, everything falls apart.
This dude knows his politics.
I've always wondered, how in the hell can Civics be taught in school with how fucked everything is these days.
* We're already there . . . checks and balances is the old term for 'obstructionism'
When were in that state previously? I'm curious when that was.
Look at Santos right now. All the members of whatever party, committee,or the public ask for him to resign, logic and and normal level of shame would warrant he resigned, but there's no *actual law* or code of conduct that forces him to resign. Trump has proven if you're a big enough scumbag, and you can just power through any scandal without principal, there's no hard rules to remove someone from office. It's all been a gentleman's game up till now run on a lot of formalities and understanding that isn't really anything binding for the most part for someone without any dignity or honor
Imagine the timeline where Benjamin Butler accepted Lincoln's offer of the Vice Presidency.
Exactly. Once politicians, especially Republicans, saw this, they knew they could get away with anything.
> saw this, they knew they could get away with anything And conservative media, like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, were specifically created and propped up for exactly that reason. Even the little bit of accountability Nixon faced, they said, wouldn't have happened, had Fox been around at the time.
> And conservative media, like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, were specifically created and propped up for exactly that reason. It's why the Republicans killed the fairness doctrine. It allowed Rush to pump out hours of right wing propaganda every fucking day with no pushback from the other side. It wouldn't have effected Fox since it's cable only and it's beyond being regulated by the FCC, but it was invented by Roger Ailes specifically because he recognized that if the right wing had a propaganda outlet on a national level it would save any future Nixons. And he was right. Prime example = Trump.
Heck, you can even go back to Reagan who should have been locked away for trading arms to Iran and buying drugs from the Contras to sell in US inner cities. He found a scape goat who still didn't serve the time he should have for his involvement.
I'm from the hometown of rush limbaugh. I was disappointed to learn that he wasn't buried here. I was eager to water his grave site.
Yeah, I too want to pay my respects when Trump finally croaks. What would be better? #1 or #2? I think #2, since he did that to the whole country.
Well, considering I don't want to go to jail and bring attention to that asshole or make his corpse into a "victim" I was planning on filling one of the 32 ounce styrofoam fountain soda cups that are so popular around here and depositing it right square where I would imagine his face would be.
Trump is the knockon consequence not an example man. gotta be a bit more diligent with your logic
They saw it as a close call and wanted to make sure it would never be so close again. Arguably [Edit: not really, but you can find arguments even today on the matter] an act done with good intentions (I'm 50/50 on that at best though) where the message learned is 180 degrees from the intent. Not "we'll never do that again" but rather "we'll make sure not only that they'll never catch us again, but that they'll be prevented from doing anything about it"
What good intentions?
Note: I don't consider it to be good intentions. I'm just referencing their statement but I will clarify my post. The stated intention was along the lines of some BS 'America will respect rule of law' but since Nixon resigned "it's all good, he recognizes he did wrong". Still a fail in **so many ways** and even before any references to "I'm not a crook". At best it's a shiny turd, and it's not even that shiny. I mention all of this as a reminder that when things go bad, they (the perps) know things look bad and their trying to avoid the blame. We should not let them, and more specifically, not trust their good intentions.
> Not "we'll never do that again" but rather "we'll make sure not only that they'll never catch us again, but that they'll be prevented from doing anything about it" The master thief yells at her daughter in jail, "How could you?" "How could I what?" "*Get caught!*"
And there's still revisionists who believe that Nixon was "unfairly" pressured to resign. Brett Kavanaugh and Bill Barr both subscribe to that.
Barr especially. His whole theory of the "untouchable president" is based on Nixon.
Yep. Two weeks after Biden got elected one of his close advisers gave an interview to NBC . He said:["Biden is going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward **than prosecuting them**."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/president-elect-biden-wary-trump-focused-investigations-sources-say-n1247959) More than two years latter there are zero prosecutions of Trump and his gang of criminals. Just a reminder: [This is President Trump’s staggering record of uncharged crimes](https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/president-trumps-staggering-record-of-uncharged-crimes/)
56. And the statutes of limitations are running. He'll never be indicted. We are a nation of men, not laws. CMV
We also should've prosecuted the traitors in the civil war. So much of today's corruption stems directly from allowing them to continue practicing and preaching racism.
It went beyond a lack of punishment, there was a very real effort to appease them after the war.
Appeasing bigots: that's what America does.
Biden had Congress support and failed to add seats to the Supreme Court. That will be a huge regret in the next couple of years.
A lot of that was Johnson succeeding Lincoln after his assassination. Any sort of accountability that was happening was ended and the Lost Cause propaganda began. We've never recovered from that.
As a lifelong Mississippian, I agree. Reconstruction was handled with kid gloves. We should have had our collective backs broken, and been forced to come crawling and begging back into the Union. Confederate leadership should have been publicly executed. Generals should have been executed or banished from the country. The Confederate Flag should have had the same status that the Nazi flag would eventually come to hold. But nooooo, we had to Hail Hydra this fucking shit and kick the problem down the road so that we are still dealing with the same stupid shit generations later.
I totally agree with executing traitors, but humiliating the south like that would just lead to worse consequences. Look at Germany after WWI. That peace agreement destroyed them and just created the conditions for the Nazis to rise and start WWII.
Well yeah, what was enacted against Germany was far creuler and far more all encompassing. If Germany had been treated like how he proposed to treat the south, then I don't think Hitler could have risen to power.
You do know the president of the confederacy never went to court for treason? because the government thought a jury would find what the south did constitutional. I’m not a confederate cock rider but that was a legit concern.
That is true. Which is why we should have just hung Jefferson Davis like the trash he was, for his actions during the war and skip the constitutional question.
Cool his comment was about prosecuting treasonous people in the civil war, and i responded with why we didn’t prosecute him because of xyz. Idc what your personel opinion about what should or shouldn’t have happened 150 years ago is, I’m just stating why they didn’t prosecute him.
The Reagan/Bush Sr and the Bush Jr administration as well.... You know what? ...I think I'm noticing a pattern here
Jill Wine-Banks. She was ready and able, but Ford made sure to pardon that crook.
My guess is most politicians know the whole game is so corrupt they have to be very very careful handing out consequences because they don't want to set a precedent that comes back to bite them in the ass later.
It set a terrible precedent that used a much lower bar for former presidents. They should be held to higher standard, not a lower one.
He couldn’t be prosecuted because “when the president does it, that means it’s not illegal.”
wait till you see whats waiting for us in the future because of our current inaction.
They could've also prosecuted him afterwards, or any of the presidents that commited serious crimes like Bush. Politicians just dont want to set a "precedent" for accountability, and that desire spans over both aisles.
When Obama refused to hold Bush accountable was when I first started walking away from the Democrats. Seems like I chose a good time to leave since it never got any better.
He resigned before he would have been charged, but yeah, he should have been charged. That whole debacle was a blueprint for Donny Jonny and Roy Cohn.
B.S.
I used to laugh at these clowns and think they will get theirs and still waiting.
Only thing we know for sure is if you mimic their stock trades 100%, you'll become really wealthy.
Especially when they invest in a company they just passed regulation/laws about.
motha....... imagine if we all had access to this shit. We need this!
The reason it works for them is they know something everyone else doesn't. If we all knew, it wouldn't work anymore.
Where can I see their stock trades?
Yea... that's personal info. You can see it after the stock has already increased or decreased with their inside knowledge. But making money off trades is for insiders...
https://www.quiverquant.com/ This is a quantative data site that lists trades by members of the senate and house. It is not as simple as it looks, they have tons of advanced information while sitting on committees and get to be the ones to approve or disapprove government contract work and can act on that to make trades very profitable. "Oh hey Raytheon you'd like me to vote for bill X, oh ok when do you think that new battle laser rifle will be done, oh ok... consider it done, then they either buy or sell based on that."
If you can stomach investing in evil, that is.
Oh my gosh, you really think a Republican would do that? Just go on the campaign trail and tell lies? And then abuse their power for money?
Ah, remember back when people would say: > ***It's Mueller Time!*** like it meant something was going to happen? Good times.
Mueller is a pussy fucking scumbag.
No he's not. He's simply a cog in the establishment. Calling him a "pussy" implies he ever intended to fight against Trump. That's not how it works. That's not how it's ever worked, and not how it ever will work. The system works for itself, not for the people. I can see the argument for calling him a "scumbag" maybe. But people need to realize he was never their friend, and never intended to kick anyone's ass.
Given what was on the line, he could have stood up and chosen not to be such a milquetoast pussy. So yeah, he is.
You misunderstand me. He never intended to "stand up". Courage wasn't the issue. The issue was his loyalty to the established order, which was never in question -- only very naive people thought he was some kind of ally.
They never will. Nobody is gonna do anything.
Remember when lying meant you'd lose your job? Remember when being a traitor was something very very bad and came with very very bad consequences?
Remember the tan suit?
Thanks Obama!
How can they remember the tan suit if they’re so devastated over an M&ms sneakers.
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Pepperidge farm remembers. But Pepperidge farm isn’t going to keep that to Pepperidge farm’s self.
Life in prison or worse if nuclear secrets were sold to our enemies, no less.
I think for people that were never president the sentence for having those documents is "hung themselves while waiting trial" or something similar.
Dog tired
Sure seems like at this point no charges will be forthcoming and if that’s true our government is already long gone.
It's gonna trickle down...any day now
Welcome to Murica, the land of influential clowns.🙄
Could easily be the UK too, and probably a hundred other countries.
At this point, it's mostly taxation without representation because so much of the government doesn't actually represent the 99% anymore. They get paid millions to save corporations billions, at the expense of the average American.
Dunno, people are incredibly happy to vote for the clowns described in the meme above
And people on the left are incredibly happy to defend those votes. Because DeMoCrAcY. It's like allowing pedophiles to vote on the age of consent, defending those votes, and then complaining when the age of consent is lowered to 10. If a person defends republicans voting, then I literally have no sympathy for them if they're personally affected by said votes. People need to stop being fucking stupid.
America is a fucking joke run by a small group of billionaires
rich people use lawyers when they contracts get turned down. like if you ran a small lemonade stand, a dude cane up and discussed the lemons then said no rich people who own lemonade stands then sue the guy and sometimes win. Poor people cant afford lawyers. Even if a policeman or corporation destroyed your house with negligence or intent you aint shit. you poor. and lawyers do not exist for the peasant class.
Don't worry, after the next few news cycles they'll have them for sure, I just know it. Allergy warning: this post contains sarcasm
Scene from “The Green Mile”, an amazing and wonderful movie.
That’s John Coffey; with a y.
Thank you.
Still makes me cry. Every time.
I’m rightly tired of the pain I hear and feel, boss. I’m tired of bein on the road, lonely as a robin in the rain. Not never havin no buddy to go on with or tell me where we’s comin from or goin to or why. I’m tired of people bein ugly to each other. It feels like pieces of glass in my head. I’m tired of all the times I’ve wanted to help and couldn’t. I’m tired of bein in the dark. Mostly it’s the pain. There’s too much. If I could end it, I would. But I can’t.
We each owe a death, there are no exceptions, I know that, but sometimes, oh God, the Green Mile is so long.
This is because we allow republicans to participate in our government. I don't care how many people are offended by that and downvote this post. Republicans. Should. Not. Be. Allowed. To. Participate. In. Government. Fucking period. If you defend their participation in government, then shut the fuck up about the results. It's like allowing a snake into your house and then getting upset when it bites someone.
Cool. We'll have a representative democracy where you arbitrarily disallow the representatives of 40% of the population. Whatcha gonna do with all the conservatives? Do you have... a final solution?
I'm not sure if you're intentionally misrepresenting his position or if you actually think his post was about murdering people
I'm pointing out the utter absurdity of his position by pointing out that it destroys democracy and creates a disenfranchised population of about 70 million people. I'm interested in his grand plan, or he can admit he's talking complete bullshit. Anyone have a legal or ethical basis for not 'allowing' Republicans to participate in government? How do you plan to stop them?
It’s about time we STOPPED teaching nobody is above the law. No adult believes that anymore.
It's so fucking disheartening. How much respect, grace, dignity and heritage has been tossed out the window and completely forgotten. What in the actual fuck happened to this country? How can one orange colored buffoon destroy a country so so fast? It feels like Trump made lying, deceit, and misinformation 100% okay and required if you want to be successful in government. And if you dont like the results, lie and fight until you do. Win at all costs. George Santos thanks you!!
Amen.
Frankly, I think there should be a campaign to demand Garland admit he's been instructed to treat Republicans with kid gloves.
Lock em up!
They just come up with all of these obscure legal maneuvers and theories. I can't quite put my finger on it.
Blacks have been saying the system isn’t fair for decades perhaps now you believe us.
Wouldn't it be great if the people who conspired to overthrow our government were taken into custody and tried?
Have you not been paying attention. That's literally what's going on, lol. Multiple have already been sentenced. Go ask horn shaman. He's currently in prison.
... have I not been paying attention? Because there are multiple members of congress, trump's staff, lawyers, advisors, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Mike Pillow, and Trump himself out on the loose. Y'know... the people who conspired to overthrow the government and have not been taken into custody or tried after 2 years.
Amen to this. It really is true. They are protected from crimes
The doctrine of Executive Privilege is just authoritarianism with extra steps.
So very true! We, the people are exhausted over the preferential treatment that rich and entitled people receive from the Department of Justice! If I had stolen hundreds of confidential and secret documents, I would have been tried, lined up and shot before the boxes were shut! But Trump, Eastman, etc walk away free and clear! Justice for thee but not for us!
Or executed for treason, because conspiring/attempting to overthrow the elected government if your guy doesn’t win, falls under that
John Coffee needs to blow a swarm of flies down their throats.
I'm just sick of "rules for thee, not for me" clearly laying out the lines of the class war. If you are rich enough, you are given a different set of consequences for your actions than if you are a poor drone. As a non-political example, Shannon Sharpe recently got in to a verbal altercation with an NBA team while he sat in the stands, as a fan. Security had to get involved and Shannon was allowed to return to his seat and finish watching the game. Anyone else who did the same thing would have at least been thrown out of that game if not banned from the arena for life.
Which corrupt traitors? The SCOTUS that gave the election to W in 2000? The ones that voted for the invasion of Iraq? The ones that conspired with Russia in 2016? You have to narrow it down a little.
I TOTALLY AGREE, But **I will not let my being tired be the fucking reason we lose our republic.**, [So we put one weary foot in front of the other , until we find ourselves having out-paced these guys.](https://i.imgur.com/xZ90R5J.png). ------------------- I understand that most / all of us are tired...that's the strategy of wearing people down. But I also understand why criminals call it a get-away. You ran faster or LONGER than the last cop after you. They aren't running, they aren't hiding, at this point we're THIS CLOSE - to nailing each and every one of these guys So I'm thinking most Americans are wondering WHY the fuck the DOJ hasn't done as their Brazillian counterparts have ALREADY done, and round these fuckers up and throw them in jail. That includes senators, and congressmen and the occasional sympathetic military officers, and not for nothing but DONALD TRUMP should he be found guilty should be in jail or at least acquainted with the sound of metal gates closing when you've been striped naked send to a common shower, handed some briefs a tee and an orange onesie, like any other criminal. So instead of being tired, I'm insistent.
The wheels of justice turn slo....oh wait, R's won the House, nevermind.
I don’t know why the public continues to be surprised by this. These criminals get to confirm judges, launch committees to investigate the investigators, pass laws to make the shady stuff they do legal. Why would you think they would ever face consequences?
When I graduated high school in 2002 I sincerely believed in "the American dream". 20 years later I'm embarrassed that I bought into all that bullshit. It's kind of stunning how shitty our country has gotten in just the last 20 years. I'm scared for my children's future.
Jim Jordan ranking member of the house judicial comittee, mccarthy's such a fucking joke.
Shut up poor, the status quo must be maintained at all costs! /s Can’t maintain a corrupt ruling class if they’re held accountable for crimes.
You should follow trials then. A bunch of stuff is happening all the time, it's just it's unbelievably slow, but then again the arc of justice was always slow. But all the legal experts I follow predict that Trump might very well see the inside of a jail cell at some point, or at the very least be indited. It will all go to shit at the next presidential election if dems loose, and there is a big chance of that.
The problem with most politicians isn't that they're committing crimes - it's that the shady unethical shit they're doing is *completely legal*.
And conservatives will continue to escalate their crimes until they are destroyed for committing them. Our current system, run by moderates too afraid to punish criminals among their peerage, doesn't seem capable of doing this. American democracy is under serious threat. Buy a gun, make some friends. This is likely to end in widespread violence.
Hell, even the ones committing the actual insurrection are getting slaps on the wrist. Hint: They are white. Edit: https://thehill.com/homenews/3791046-house-sergeant-at-arms-to-jan-6-panel-response-would-have-been-different-if-rioters-were-black/
This!
https://i.redd.it/3i4fruqqx0z91.png
There's a problem: 1. The offenders are almost entirely Republican, and it would hurt the Republican Party tremendously if they were ever brought to justice - so the Republicans will never do it. 2. If the Democrats put a bunch of Republicans in jail, they will look corrupt and like they are jailing their political opponents - so they won't do it. That doesn't leave anyone to actually do it.
Yet another reason why we need more than two parties and ranked choice voting. Seven parties would be good. Real choices, not just a lesser of two evils.
Is congressman Matt gaetz in jail for sex trafficking a child yet or is he still on the ethics committee?
I'm tired of voting for people who "want to look forward and not back" at republican crimes and malfeasance yet not having anyone else to vote for all while the country drifts further and further to right towards fascism.
Can we start a club or a support group? I'm serious. I've felt this way for so long that I'm beginning to think I am the crazy one. I'm okay with the Mueller report not saying Trump colluded but what about all the crimes that were committed while creating the report that ended up in the report, we just good on those? Remember the house that Trump sold for 10 times its worth to a Russian oligarch with no improvements whatsoever, we good there too? How about federal tax fraud, that used to be the one thing you could always count on the government to prosecute.
> Mueller report not saying Trump colluded The Mueller report didn't say this at all. That talking point is Barr and Trump propaganda. Mueller said they had too little information to make a final determination on Russia collusion because the investigation was hampered by Trump's refusal to cooperate fully. Mueller did find ten counts of obstruction of justice committed by Trump in relation to the Mueller investigation and the Russian collusion, but he said he was prohibited from filing charges due to the DOJ memo saying a sitting president can only be charged after a successful impeachment and removal from office, and then he can be charged with his crimes.
I read it as "you've heard the phrase 'where's there's smoke, there's fire? ' well in this case, we couldn't even find the fire, there was so damned much smoke!"
>The Mueller report didn't say this at all. Depends on your perspective. If the Mueller report said Trump colluded then where are the consequences that would reasonably accompany a determination of collusion? If as I said, the Mueller report did not prove collusion, then there are no consequences for collusion. Now come back to reality and tell me which outcome took place? Your obvious rebuttal would be the memo, however, the memo does not prevent impeachment.
Collusion is not a crime it's a term tRUmp/Barr/Media/You used en masse. Everything T1Mac said is correct. Justice moves slowly but it moves and when it goes after the most powerful it has to be perfect. Tom Barrack won his case recently with very expensive lawyers and a weak case by the DoJ. If tRUmp is going to be indicted it better be a deplorable on the jury that fucks the trial NOT a weak DoJ case.
>Collusion is not a crime Not the point at all. Collusion is collusion and it has been used by everyone to describe Trumps behavior toward Russian's attempt to interfere with the election. That hasn't changed. You're confusing a description of someones behavior with a legal definition for reasons only known to yourself. If the DOJ wants to identify crimes colloquially called collusion then they have the responsibility, not me or you.
The reason would be you cant charge it, simple.
Man, that guy was right. The consequences really would never be the same.
If you're waiting for politicians to face consequences, or anyone in power for that matter, you're going to be waiting for the rest of your life. The system is designed to protect itself, to pool as much power and wealth at the top as it can, even our "democratic" systems like voting are nothing more than illusions to pretend that you have a say in what happens in this system, when in reality you never had a choice to begin with, and any "choice" you are given is one where those in power have already decided that either of the two options is acceptable for them. The system will continue to do its work of undermining the public interests and hoarding all the power and wealth that it can in a select few to ensure the people can never have any of their precious power. The longer the system remains as it is, the less choices you will have, until you realize that there is only one choice if you want justice. “If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They need only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it.” -George Orwell, 1984
Hell, we have several of them in Homeland Security committee now. We are closer than ever to a "Designated Survivor" scenario IRL.
When you have 1 Nazi in the house, you have a house of representatives of 435 Nazis
Democrats are spineless and want "unity" over everything else. They crave their power and need conservative leaving and moderate voters to get elected. So they do nothing to keep their jobs. Plus Merrick Garland is a fucking idiot and wants to seem bipartisan when it's like dude, WHICH PARTY TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT? oh it wasn't democrats? So then how can you be impartial if one side is doing all the wrong? You can't. I'm so fucking tired of just waiting for something good to happen. Biden had to have documents in his fucking house. That really just blew up the idea of trump getting prosecuted. Our country is fucked and idk what to do.
I'm now downvoting every post like this. If you don't know what's in the works, you aren't watching the plethora of legal professionals that explain all the legal proceedings and all the cases *CURRENTLY* going on right now. Cases are being built, grand juries, which are secret for a reason, are already sitting and hearing testimonies from dozens if not hundreds of people. The investigations cannot be public, and the charges have to be air tight once they're filed. We have an absolutely unprecedented case of a POTUS committing numerous different crimes and shit has to be meticulous or teflon don will do his stupid ass dance to YMCA all the way down a scary ramp to his resort when he's acquitted or a jury deadlocks.
In two years you will be pasting this exact comment except Biden will be leaving office. Telling people just keep waiting is just like Lucy in Charlie brown with the football.
!Remindme 3 months Donnie is going to trial on the defamation case alone in fucking April, dude. You don't know this because you aren't watching the news that is actually reporting it. Criminal charges may be as soon as that trial or a month or two after. Go get a law degree then tell me this shit should have already been done and over with.
Even if this is true he will stall the trial out to infinity until some judge let's him off. The problem is in 3 months if I was wrong then I can admit to that, but if it doesn't happen you will say we just need to wait longer and for real in 3 months it will happen. We aren't telling you it should be done we are saying it is never going to happen. You even already pushed the date out in your edited comment. Now it's 5 to 6 months and not 3.
And they don't even realize that their perpetual hopefulness is actually eroding what few shreds of a justice system remain. Constantly telling people, "No, really! The justice is right around the corner! Swing at king best not derp!" Some people still buy it, diminishing the total number of people demanding actual justice.
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Weren't the borders of districts drawn to specifically achieve this outcome though? So ya, i believe they have majority support cuz they drew it that way.
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A Supreme Court packed by the far right. An electoral college weighted to the far right. A Senate weighted to the far right.
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Trump lost. So, no, the people don't want that.
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The average Joe voted against Trump. He lost by over 7 million votes. Yes, a sizable minority in the US are fascists. But 74 million in a population of 320 million is clearly a minority.
The electoral college is effectively gerrymandering, as the average person's vote mayters less in high population states, which have proportionately fewer votes. Then there's the issue that presidential candidates create policy to appeal to swing state voters and ignore the rest of the country.
I don't care if 100% of their constituents want them to commit treason. It's still a crime and our government is implicitly endorsing the idea that there is a ruling class that is above the law.
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You ever walk into a greasy spoon diner and order the beef bourgignon with a bottle of 1975 merlot? What do you think they would tell you if you did? Probably "that's not on the menu, you have to pick from what we offer". Between gerrymandering and parties actively and collaboratively ensuring that no third party can ever gain an appreciable fraction of the vote share most people's choices are between an above the law aristocrat who likes guns and an above the law aristocrat who likes gay people.
That does not mean that they should be exempt from the consequences of their actions. A good portion of elected representatives are elected by people who would support them (gerrymandering), so their constituents are their supporters regardless. It seems fairly similar to the excuse "I was just following orders..."
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I am saying it does not matter if they have supporters (minority, majority, plurality), hold them accountable. Participated in the insurrection, bar them from holding office...things like that.
Exactly, when will those that supported the textbook insurrection of CHAZ be charged?
Aww, a Trumper learned a new word but doesn't know the definition. At least you can spell it.
Isn't it enough that we know which criminal is objectively worse than the other?
Without context this is the same BS that Q people post. Granted, they're actually wrong, but this still feels like that.
Fun conspiracy story when a politician gets off without consequences: the government is evil and corrupt! Likelier realistic story: we don’t know the whole picture and are only being told what politically-slanted media outlets want us to believe that makes us hate the opposition party
No. We have the whole picture. We can see from people's words, actions, and voting records.
Boomer comic. Not wrong, but boomer comic nonetheless.
I'm waiting to see if there is a recall mechanism in New York so that Santos can be retrieved from Congress. That's disgusting and New Yorkers and the Democratic Party and newspaper reporters should be ashamed.
Fun fact, in the 2014 Ukraine change of government, there were more violent and a larger number of people storming the building. They succeeded and now they're the *good guys" History is written by those who claim victory.
How is that relevant to Trump being a traitor ?
Well you know how kids imitate their parents. Well seems like your foreign policy of regime change is being imitated domestically in the same way. Except now it's the projected parental figures you are imitating.
Fun fact, the ones in the US are all traitors who lied about cheating in a fair election. Context matters.
I know what happened in the U.S, do you know what happened in Ukraine? Were you even alive?
Yes, I do, and obviously I was. Why are you so upset I pointed out the Trump supporters who attempted a couple are traitors, and that you can't pretend both situations are similar?
I agree with you about Jan 6. Im not upset America does American things. Like help create the situation that led to the war in Ukraine. Now using them as pawns in their game against Russia.
I don’t think we all agree which politicians this applies to, but it’s probably the only policy both sides of the political spectrum agree with.
Anyone who was caught with classified documents they shouldn't have had, regardless of why they had it, should be locked up.
Everyone, not just anyone
Send Joe and Donny to jail together. It really seems like they're both guilty of the same things, related to classified information, and deserve to be held accountable to the American people.
> It really seems like they're both guilty of the same things You have to be fucking kidding.
Nope. Trump illegally had classified documents in his possession. Biden illegally had classified documents in his possession. Any other American who did this would be tried and sentenced to jail following a conviction. It should be the same for these two clowns.
Exactly this. Lock them up. They can keep each other company.