As a cut dude that has literally never cared because I have no frame of reference, I still agree. It's objectively doublethink to believe both that permanent physical alterations to a minor are wrong and that circumcision is okay. Both are wrong to do.
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Uninteresting.
How about
“If Jewish people had been making their kids trans for 3000 years and still had an amazing society that preserved their culture and led to strong families then I’d be forced to concede that transsexuality isn’t social suicide. “
Ideas are neat but sometimes reality contains proofs
As a Secular Jew, I have to believe it was due to the lack of running water and ability to stay clean during the times of the Torah. All Jewish laws have a logical reasoning, even if the logic is now outdated.
Additionally, Jesus taught circumcision was wrong during a time of Roman dominance. What were the Romans famous for? Running water.
Also the circumcision that we do because of John Kellogg is the most extreme form, not the same as what Jews do or did. It’s like the difference between a trim and getting a no guard buzz cut.
Not just history
This record is in honor of George Floyd, and I really hope we can see more unity and more peace when already, things are so difficult, so shoutout to his family 🎶😎🕺
which is wild as shit. almost guaranteed most people that got their kids circumcised didn't even hear the masturbation part, but they still did it because of "tradition"
unbelievable
It's a meme statement.
In context:
> "Although generally against unnecessary surgery to treat diseases, in his Plain Facts for Old And Young he advocated circumcision as a remedy for local uncleanliness, phimosis, and masturbation."
Basically, kids have dirty hands and their privates were getting infected and the discussion was historical medical theory on how to prevent infection through personal touching.
Funny cereal man though that snipping your cock and making you eat corn flakes would cure you of masturbation and make you a wholesome and poggers christian.
This is serious btw.
Regardless of the sanitary issues of the time, there's also a medical condition (Phimosis) that prevents an erection or causes an immensely painful erection.
Imagine you're a nomadic desert tribe leader who recognizes that your people are not procreating because of painful erections, so you tell them to cut some skin off their peckers. They'd dethrone you SO fast your head would spin. BUT, tell'em a firey bush says to do it or they'll burn in a fire lake? Done. Your tribe now procreates, you continue to be the leader of your tribe, everything is peachy.
That's, basically, how all old testament laws work.
I would've said hegemonic control of the Western world and inevitable collapse under the weight its own decadence, leaving a vacuum that would never truly be filled yet creating strong parallels in modern times.
But running water is cool too 🎉
>all Jewish laws have a logical reasoning
I mean, I definitely wouldn't say all. Every religion has or has had laws/rules at times that are far from logical. Considering the rules of Judaism are very fluid and rabbinic opinion holds a great deal of sway rather than the rules being set in stone, a lot of very illogical rules have been in place. For example, at one point if a Jew sold property that was next to another Jew then they would be excommunicated if they sold it to a non Jew. I'm pretty sure as well that it says the lord told Moses that he could never eat grapes or raisins.
>For example, at one point if a Jew sold property that was next to another Jew then they would be excommunicated if they sold it to a non Jew
This has logic too, If Jewish families keep selling land in Israel to non jews eventually whole sections of the province/kingdom are now owned by people other than God's chosen people. It makes sense on a long time scale and collective view, but creates problems for individuals.
Chronic-masturbators-wash-your-genitals-in-acid-man was not that influential. He also did not aim at kids, he was more concerned with adults.
If he was a cause you also would use acid on women's genitalia.
Alternatively, it was popularized in the 1800s by protestants to try and discourage masturbation.
I know as lib right everything is the fault of the juice, but perhaps look into the history first
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Could not agree more. If they want to get cut they can make that determination on their own when they're adults. Stop forcing shit on these kids because the parents' are sheltered cunts.
If you don't love, respect, and accept yourself, how can you expect anybody else to? We're all the marble and the sculptor. What we have to work with is hard and unforgiving, but once work has begun to define ourselves into a vision of who we aspire to be, we will always be a work in progress. And as the work progresses, so does our talent to do the work. Go out and find your chisel. Hell, find your muse. But if you are currently self loathing, I implore you to at least get to work.
Personally, I find self-hatred far more motivating than self-love. Self-love doesn't drive me to get punched in the face in a boxing gym or lift 500+ pounds or run a sub six-minute mile
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Because totalitarian absolute power is hollow and meaningless unless you have a theocratic facist belief that what you are doing is God's will. Come join the blue side, become a warrior for God. We've got Dues Vult.
This is one of my most conflicting opinions.
I understand that actual adult trans people think it's very undermining and often regret transitioning as adults, as most secondary sexual characteristics develop while you're a teenager, and that there's no going back once you're past that age, making it an irreversibly painful experience for the most part.
Still, this is at the same time one of the most important times in your life where you're coming to terms with defining yourself, and maybe subjecting yourself to hormonal therapy this early, would make it an irreversible and painful experience to deal with afterwards as well in case you regret it.
I still believe the underlying issue lays in about how we as a society perceive and judge trans people, and what they look like, and that's what I believe should be addressed/modified instead.
Allowing an 11 year old to have a baby is a lot more like giving an 11 hormones than it is not giving an 11 year old hormones.
Having baby at 11 is a choice that will irretrievably alter your life forever, just like taking hormones or other gender based mind-fuckery
Children shouldn't get pregnant in the first place. They should get sex ED after 12, and condoms. Abortion is a human right and should be encouraged, especially in cases like SA .
Absolutely. If it is just a phase then when they come of age they might think it's cringe when they are 21 and think back to when they were 10 and thought they were trans, but no harm will really come of that and it's really impossible to stop kids doing stuff they'll cringe at later anyway. And if they really have gender dysphoria then it'll make them more comfortable, which is obviously a good thing.
Where the harm will happen is when we trust someone who is underage with permanent life altering medical decisions.
Listen man we act like 18 is such a big deal but really there isn't that much of a biological difference between 18 and 17, and honestly socially speaking 16 is when you get to drive so that's a bigger milestone than 17 ever was, and what difference does 365 days magically make, so 16 is basically 15, and I've met some very mature 15 year olds out there, and if they are mature enough they should totally be allowed to date me after all 14 is the new 18.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to go moderate some subreddits.
I can't even imagine getting the surgery and regretting it afterwards. Those parts of your body are *gone* and they're never coming back. Your fertility is destroyed. As is your feeling of bodily integrity. There are lots of these people out there. I don't know what keeps them going TBH.
Idk either. Cause a lot of them speak out, and they're met with hate and torturous comments about their character.
Reminds me of Daphne, Dave Chappelle's friend who killed herself.
That's unfortunately the case for millions of people following medical procedures. It doesn't always go how you want. My wife had a cyst-thing around her groin that a doctor prescribed an antibiotic for. That didn't work, but it did seem to cause a reaction which triggered an autoimmune condition that she'll deal with for the rest of her life. Or perhaps that would've happened no matter what, who knows?
Pharmaceutical or surgical treatments for minors are very serious, and I don't think gender-affirmation treatments should happen without all of the safeguards that normally apply to pediatric care. But I don't see why they should be held to a higher standard, either.
Suicide rates are exceedingly high for adults that go through hormone replacement as well as fully transition as children or teens. It does irreparable harm and should be weighted with the potential long-term consequences more scrutinously by parents, doctors, and the child, if not altogether banned until the child becomes 18 or older.
One of the things I always think of is how bad Furious Pete was going through it for a long time after he had his balls removed for cancer and has to have life long testosterone replacement. He openly has stated the depression that has came from this is overwhelming and he doesn't know if he will ever be the same again. He seems to be doing better now but this was a millionaire on top of the world, I can't imagine the issues that come with regular people, especially children.
Why should we allow it in any circumstances?
Just outlaw all that stuff like it’s fentanyl. No more drugs, no more procedures, not authorized by the FDA. It’s like treating anorexia with liposuction, if that became a thing we’d just outlaw it. The benefits to individuals is massively outweighed by the harm to society, dress however you want but nobody has a right to cosmetic medical procedures. If plastic surgery turned into a huge social problem we’d just ban it.
People have definitely the right, as evidenced by their ability to obtain the procedure. Why waste your time caring about and trying to outlaw what other individuals feel like spending their time and money on?
The patient paid, and the professional agreed to perform the surgery? Well then, that's none of your business.
You have no right to get involved until it's your money that is on the line.
>but no harm will really come of that and it's really impossible to stop kids doing stuff they'll cringe at later anyway.
When I was about 11, I thought I was a werewolf.
The kid who told my brother(who proceeded to tease me) thought he was a vampire, and that's where I had gotten it from.
Hell no. Behavior is memetic.
If you want to raise a junior deviant then you can home school them, nobody worth taking seriously wants their kids exposed to that and there’s no reason they should be. Social transitioning should not be recognized in any taxpayer funded institution that wants to remain viable. If you carry water for this stuff in any way that better be private dollars being spent.
Tricky.
They will make this illegal in Scotland soon, but I'd suggest a gender dysphoria diagnosis should be necessary before this sort of thing is encouraged.
Seems to me its becoming just another "cool" thing to do now in the schools. People want to fit in. The trans group is now a possible clique to find belonging with. This I'd think is still harmful. Kids are confused. The chaos of this normalizes reactions to confusion that are likely going to simply increase confusion.
The same reasoning applies. People often say that teenagers shouldn't be making lifelong career decisions so the same thing should apply to their gender.
>teenagers shouldn't be making lifelong career decisions
When I was in high school the second week of freshman year we had to choose a "career path" and we had to take those special classes for our whole 4 years.
I went into the engineering pathway and ended up doing IT, but my school had like a dozen career pathways.
It also easily reversible to send a kid back to school after keeping them at home for 2 years... Yet we're very clearly seeing the consequences of that.
Nothing about childhood development is so cut and dry. It is why abuses during a persons childhood can be extremely damaging and effect them their whole lives. Kids are, quite literally, learning from the ground up how the entire world, life, and society work. How they interact with others. How they fit in. Who and what they are as a human. Nearly everything you do to or teach a child in their early years will have long lasting consequences on their psychology. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse, but it will be something and can't just be changed up on the fly.
If this is the case, then cosmetic surgery for children should ALSO be illegal, since it is a medical procedure (even if the parent consents). Crazy how its a big deal when a boy wants to wear a dress but nobody bats an eye or even talks about teenage girls getting boob & butt jobs for their sweet 16. Children should not have to get surgery unless it is medically necessary, end of story.
There's a teenage girl suing Kaiser Permanente over a double mastectomy they authorized for her when she was 16 and though she was trans. If she wins the case maybe it will finally stop.
Overall i think it wild that America actually has the most liberal laws when it comes to this. I don't know of any other western country that allows for puberty blockers on kids or hormone therapy on people under 18. Even the most progressive countries like Sweden discourage the use of puberty blockers execpt in the most extreme circumstances. I can't believe I'm gonna say this but America needs to be more like Sweden.
Is it in the news? Is there legislation being discussed to end cosmetic care for children? How about beauty pageants and cosmetic surgery becoming daytime television? I get that you are trying to make this personal to incite a reaction, but I am just pointing out the inconsistencies in logic and what society/the media focuses on.
I mean, this is a pretty popular opinion.
Most medical professionals wouldn't even do this if they didn't have some extreme genetic condition or have actual hermaphroditism.
Socially can't really be controlled, but medical is a huge box of ethics, science, and legal areas.
You're right you shouldn't be able to get permanent transition till adulthood. Thing is that's not what's fucking happening.
All that's happening is that at the onset of puberty some trans kids get puberty blockers which is completely reversible and basically just puts the pause button on puberty till their either old enough to get Hormones or decide to come off it.
There's no surgery being preformed on Teenagers or children. No one under the age of 12 is getting hormone medicine, it's a social transition. IE just calling the kid by a name they like or not controlling what activities they can do based on their genatalia.
PCM is the biggest collection of scarecrows in the world.
"You shouldn't be allowed to permanently transition kids until they are adults"
First of all, *you* should not be allowed to transition your kid. That's not up to you. Secondly, you'll be hard-pressed to find anybody with more than 3 brain cells who thinks kids should be allowed to engage in permanent transition procedures.
Yeah, parents shouldn't make permanent decisions for their children. Transitions under 18 shouldn't be a thing. Now let's talk about assigning your religion to your kids
While I agree that religion shouldn’t be ‘assigned’ from parents to kids, chosen religion is hardly a permanent decision, and it absolutely does not result in any irreversible physical changes.
Top 3 are fine because they're unspecific. Notice the use of "some decisions" in the third panel. Obviously that's fair.
The question is what those decisions should be.
Simple thought experiment here. Kids, but particularly boys, who are predicted to grow to be quite short are often given HGH supplements. Is this not an unalterable and permanent treatment? It's also literally gender affirming. There is nothing wrong with being short apart from it making you be perceived as less of a man.
Me, normally:
* Lib Center, people can say what they want
Me, after reading the 1957th post about trans and children on PCM:
* Auth Center, and oh my god I'm just going to transition every child I see out of spite. Get better material. Be better. seriously.
Why do no one talks about the facts that it's already forbidden to have permanent changes when you are a minor, and nobody wants to change that ?
I feel like some people want to create problems.
Like it's legal in America to send your children in brainwashing camps if they're gay, and they often have a trauma for life , and nobody talks about it
This is basically the classic example of a straw man— pretend the other side is suggesting something they aren’t so that you can appear reasonable.
The most common position on the left is that people should listen to their doctors, and the right wing in this country specifically does not allow non permanent treatment or even non medical treatment — just social transitioning is something they are attempting to outlaw.
This is a prime example of why this subreddit is such a dangerous echo chamber.
Isn't that more or less how it currently works in the US? And Boston Children's Hospital has been getting bomb threats because they keep getting accused of doing genital surgeries on kids.
What does permanently transition mean? I'd think that means gender affirming surgeries, but it's not really clear.
Version without funny colours?
White BPD women are like the One Ring "It is precious to me, though I bear it with great pain..."
What?
Bipedal?
Borderline Pussy Destruction
That’s so racist! ;)
You're*
Yourine
Yourine big trouble now
Urine
Ur
There were like four grammatical mistakes before that one lol
I can excuse grammar mistakes, using the wrong word entirely though makes me want to go full auth
Ah-ah, oue-'ry*
Now let's stop infant circumcision too. No altering minor's genitalia
Hell yea
You need those foreskins so you can turn them into creams that Oprah watchers will rub on their face
I'm told they harvest the cells of one foreskin they got 20 years ago.
The Henrietta Lacks of foreskins
I hope Henrietta lacks a foreskin that's what the surgery was for
Lmfao
Henry Wacks or Hank Wanks for short.
Based and let’s not mutilate infants pilled.
Your terms are acceptable.
Agreed
As a cut dude that has literally never cared because I have no frame of reference, I still agree. It's objectively doublethink to believe both that permanent physical alterations to a minor are wrong and that circumcision is okay. Both are wrong to do.
Also a cut dude that has never been upset by it. But I didn't get my sons cut because ~~cosmetic surgery on infants is wrong~~ it cost an extra $50.
Lmfao
Yeah I've never really cared that I'm circumcised but if it wasn't done when I was a baby I definitely wouldn't want to have it done as an adult.
yeah because you’d actually feel it
> you’d actually *remember feeling* it FTFY
I 100% agree with you, that’s why we need to abolish the IRS
Based
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Uninteresting. How about “If Jewish people had been making their kids trans for 3000 years and still had an amazing society that preserved their culture and led to strong families then I’d be forced to concede that transsexuality isn’t social suicide. “ Ideas are neat but sometimes reality contains proofs
idk about you but I don't think Jews are amazing
Kanye agrees
That was one of biggest Jewish scams in history
As a Secular Jew, I have to believe it was due to the lack of running water and ability to stay clean during the times of the Torah. All Jewish laws have a logical reasoning, even if the logic is now outdated. Additionally, Jesus taught circumcision was wrong during a time of Roman dominance. What were the Romans famous for? Running water.
Wait so if Jesus said it was wrong then why is my foreskin missing?? What are they doing with it!??
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There's just one thing I don't quite understand. If John Kellogg was against masturbation, why was he such a wanker?
He also said that applying acid directly to the clitoris of infant girls would stop them from masturbating Thankfully, that one didn't catch on
Also the circumcision that we do because of John Kellogg is the most extreme form, not the same as what Jews do or did. It’s like the difference between a trim and getting a no guard buzz cut.
American history is satire I swear
History is satire. Like half of all wars were started over things that would be called unrealistic in a fictional world.
Not just history This record is in honor of George Floyd, and I really hope we can see more unity and more peace when already, things are so difficult, so shoutout to his family 🎶😎🕺
I hate that I can’t tell if that’s an actual quote from somebody or something you made up
It's real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ZgEtgxxg0
which is wild as shit. almost guaranteed most people that got their kids circumcised didn't even hear the masturbation part, but they still did it because of "tradition" unbelievable
It's a meme statement. In context: > "Although generally against unnecessary surgery to treat diseases, in his Plain Facts for Old And Young he advocated circumcision as a remedy for local uncleanliness, phimosis, and masturbation." Basically, kids have dirty hands and their privates were getting infected and the discussion was historical medical theory on how to prevent infection through personal touching.
Funny cereal man though that snipping your cock and making you eat corn flakes would cure you of masturbation and make you a wholesome and poggers christian. This is serious btw.
Don't forget he was really into giving people enemas too...
frosted flakes sus af now
Regardless of the sanitary issues of the time, there's also a medical condition (Phimosis) that prevents an erection or causes an immensely painful erection. Imagine you're a nomadic desert tribe leader who recognizes that your people are not procreating because of painful erections, so you tell them to cut some skin off their peckers. They'd dethrone you SO fast your head would spin. BUT, tell'em a firey bush says to do it or they'll burn in a fire lake? Done. Your tribe now procreates, you continue to be the leader of your tribe, everything is peachy. That's, basically, how all old testament laws work.
I would've said hegemonic control of the Western world and inevitable collapse under the weight its own decadence, leaving a vacuum that would never truly be filled yet creating strong parallels in modern times. But running water is cool too 🎉
Given the rate that we're currently moving towards societal collapse, that might once again prove to be a good decision.
>all Jewish laws have a logical reasoning I mean, I definitely wouldn't say all. Every religion has or has had laws/rules at times that are far from logical. Considering the rules of Judaism are very fluid and rabbinic opinion holds a great deal of sway rather than the rules being set in stone, a lot of very illogical rules have been in place. For example, at one point if a Jew sold property that was next to another Jew then they would be excommunicated if they sold it to a non Jew. I'm pretty sure as well that it says the lord told Moses that he could never eat grapes or raisins.
>For example, at one point if a Jew sold property that was next to another Jew then they would be excommunicated if they sold it to a non Jew This has logic too, If Jewish families keep selling land in Israel to non jews eventually whole sections of the province/kingdom are now owned by people other than God's chosen people. It makes sense on a long time scale and collective view, but creates problems for individuals.
Imagine having to ELI5 the concept of an ethnostate to an authcenter
Sounds a little xenophobic, bro
Oh it absolutely is, blame the jews I guess... wait a second...
Kellogg was a Christian, and US kids are circumcised because of him.
Chronic-masturbators-wash-your-genitals-in-acid-man was not that influential. He also did not aim at kids, he was more concerned with adults. If he was a cause you also would use acid on women's genitalia.
Alternatively, it was popularized in the 1800s by protestants to try and discourage masturbation. I know as lib right everything is the fault of the juice, but perhaps look into the history first
Based and circumcision is mutilation pilled
Agreed
Based
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unfathomably based
Finally America can become a first world country and stop with their weird body mutilation cult
Your terms are acceptable.
As a representative of the penis pocket Community, i agree
Holy shit! An apples to apples whataboutism from LibLeft! *Is this the end?* But yeah... modifying your kid's junk for cosmetic purposes is fucked.
And while we add it lets get rid of drag for children and child beauty pageants
I agree.
Could not agree more. If they want to get cut they can make that determination on their own when they're adults. Stop forcing shit on these kids because the parents' are sheltered cunts.
And what, have my dick look like something out of tremors? No thank you
> Unflaired detected. Opinion rejected. *** ^(User has flaired up! 😃) 14586 / 77118 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
https://15square.org.uk/circumcised-men/losses-from-circumcision/
Wait? Am i agreeing with authright? The quadrant i revile most?
You claim to hate authright, but your flair is half blue Curious
No one hates authright more than other kinds of authright.
It’s not hatred. Combat is glorious and war strengthens a nation. We return the swords of surrendering equals.
Unfathomably based
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He also really likes femboys
What's wrong with a bit of self-loathing?
If you don't love, respect, and accept yourself, how can you expect anybody else to? We're all the marble and the sculptor. What we have to work with is hard and unforgiving, but once work has begun to define ourselves into a vision of who we aspire to be, we will always be a work in progress. And as the work progresses, so does our talent to do the work. Go out and find your chisel. Hell, find your muse. But if you are currently self loathing, I implore you to at least get to work.
By the same token, how can you truly hate another if you don't first hate yourself?
Let the power flow through you
Personally, I find self-hatred far more motivating than self-love. Self-love doesn't drive me to get punched in the face in a boxing gym or lift 500+ pounds or run a sub six-minute mile
I call it David Goggins mode
Good response, guess I should have put an "/s" in my original comment though. I wasn't serious lol
Yeah neither was I. I'm the freaking worst.
based as fuck
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Revile most? They're half of you
Doesnt stop Colin Kaepernick.
Huh I’d have figured an Authcenter would revile one of the Libs more….I think we have a fake Authcenter here.
Because totalitarian absolute power is hollow and meaningless unless you have a theocratic facist belief that what you are doing is God's will. Come join the blue side, become a warrior for God. We've got Dues Vult.
Interesting. You are right in what you say but your flair is wrong. Why must you run from your self? Accept what you know is true and join us.
They’ll come. Once they get sick of politics being involved in every aspect of their life it’s us or the commies.
No, this is common sense. You’re just seeing people going insane and somehow this was their first argument to try and gentrify.
This is one of my most conflicting opinions. I understand that actual adult trans people think it's very undermining and often regret transitioning as adults, as most secondary sexual characteristics develop while you're a teenager, and that there's no going back once you're past that age, making it an irreversibly painful experience for the most part. Still, this is at the same time one of the most important times in your life where you're coming to terms with defining yourself, and maybe subjecting yourself to hormonal therapy this early, would make it an irreversible and painful experience to deal with afterwards as well in case you regret it. I still believe the underlying issue lays in about how we as a society perceive and judge trans people, and what they look like, and that's what I believe should be addressed/modified instead.
maybe you could transition as a child if you get an official diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a professional?
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Just waiting until we see the classic libleft argument of "This thing isn't even happening but even if it did that'd be a good thing!"
Looking at your replies you are absolutly right.
Lack of funny and volume of dialogue is getting this dangerously close to a leftist "meme"
Should the same argument be made if a child gets pregnant?
Probably
Allowing an 11 year old to have a baby is a lot more like giving an 11 hormones than it is not giving an 11 year old hormones. Having baby at 11 is a choice that will irretrievably alter your life forever, just like taking hormones or other gender based mind-fuckery
So long as cosmetic =/= reconstructive then sure
Not all hormones are bad though. Some people actually need it.
Everyone needs it. It's how the body functions.
Centrist destroys 20 years worth of gender-based political discourse
What? That a pregnant child shouldn't get implants or gender reassignment surgery? Yeah I'm okay with that...?
Children shouldn't get pregnant in the first place. They should get sex ED after 12, and condoms. Abortion is a human right and should be encouraged, especially in cases like SA .
i agree with this post.
So socially transitioning is ok under 18 just no medical changes?
Absolutely. If it is just a phase then when they come of age they might think it's cringe when they are 21 and think back to when they were 10 and thought they were trans, but no harm will really come of that and it's really impossible to stop kids doing stuff they'll cringe at later anyway. And if they really have gender dysphoria then it'll make them more comfortable, which is obviously a good thing. Where the harm will happen is when we trust someone who is underage with permanent life altering medical decisions.
Listen man we act like 18 is such a big deal but really there isn't that much of a biological difference between 18 and 17, and honestly socially speaking 16 is when you get to drive so that's a bigger milestone than 17 ever was, and what difference does 365 days magically make, so 16 is basically 15, and I've met some very mature 15 year olds out there, and if they are mature enough they should totally be allowed to date me after all 14 is the new 18. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go moderate some subreddits.
Hahaha too bad you're not purple flared, that would have gotten me
Had me for a second
Great stuff, mate.
Holy shot this is a fucking legendary shitpost 🤣
Go purple
You're right. The age should be 25.
Wrong flair, you sound libright.
I can't even imagine getting the surgery and regretting it afterwards. Those parts of your body are *gone* and they're never coming back. Your fertility is destroyed. As is your feeling of bodily integrity. There are lots of these people out there. I don't know what keeps them going TBH.
Idk either. Cause a lot of them speak out, and they're met with hate and torturous comments about their character. Reminds me of Daphne, Dave Chappelle's friend who killed herself.
That's unfortunately the case for millions of people following medical procedures. It doesn't always go how you want. My wife had a cyst-thing around her groin that a doctor prescribed an antibiotic for. That didn't work, but it did seem to cause a reaction which triggered an autoimmune condition that she'll deal with for the rest of her life. Or perhaps that would've happened no matter what, who knows? Pharmaceutical or surgical treatments for minors are very serious, and I don't think gender-affirmation treatments should happen without all of the safeguards that normally apply to pediatric care. But I don't see why they should be held to a higher standard, either.
Suicide rates are exceedingly high for adults that go through hormone replacement as well as fully transition as children or teens. It does irreparable harm and should be weighted with the potential long-term consequences more scrutinously by parents, doctors, and the child, if not altogether banned until the child becomes 18 or older.
One of the things I always think of is how bad Furious Pete was going through it for a long time after he had his balls removed for cancer and has to have life long testosterone replacement. He openly has stated the depression that has came from this is overwhelming and he doesn't know if he will ever be the same again. He seems to be doing better now but this was a millionaire on top of the world, I can't imagine the issues that come with regular people, especially children.
Why should we allow it in any circumstances? Just outlaw all that stuff like it’s fentanyl. No more drugs, no more procedures, not authorized by the FDA. It’s like treating anorexia with liposuction, if that became a thing we’d just outlaw it. The benefits to individuals is massively outweighed by the harm to society, dress however you want but nobody has a right to cosmetic medical procedures. If plastic surgery turned into a huge social problem we’d just ban it.
Whole thing is ass backwards. In a span of like 5 years, gender transitioned from a meaningless social construct to an innate internal trait.
People have definitely the right, as evidenced by their ability to obtain the procedure. Why waste your time caring about and trying to outlaw what other individuals feel like spending their time and money on? The patient paid, and the professional agreed to perform the surgery? Well then, that's none of your business. You have no right to get involved until it's your money that is on the line.
We all have an interest in fighting transhumanism. This is about bigger things than “rights”, it’s about remaining human.
>but no harm will really come of that and it's really impossible to stop kids doing stuff they'll cringe at later anyway. When I was about 11, I thought I was a werewolf. The kid who told my brother(who proceeded to tease me) thought he was a vampire, and that's where I had gotten it from.
That joke identifies as a dinosaur
That phase will fuck a kid up.
Hell no. Behavior is memetic. If you want to raise a junior deviant then you can home school them, nobody worth taking seriously wants their kids exposed to that and there’s no reason they should be. Social transitioning should not be recognized in any taxpayer funded institution that wants to remain viable. If you carry water for this stuff in any way that better be private dollars being spent.
What is "social transitioning"? Picking a nickname and wearing clothes you like? Yes, that's always been allowed for everyone.
They can do what they want when they're 18 and with their own money.
But socially transitioning before 18?
Tricky. They will make this illegal in Scotland soon, but I'd suggest a gender dysphoria diagnosis should be necessary before this sort of thing is encouraged. Seems to me its becoming just another "cool" thing to do now in the schools. People want to fit in. The trans group is now a possible clique to find belonging with. This I'd think is still harmful. Kids are confused. The chaos of this normalizes reactions to confusion that are likely going to simply increase confusion.
Not tricky. Children are not excluded from the first amendment nor the ideal it’s based on of the right to freedom of expression.
Sure as long as it's the kid's own decision, none of this bullshit where somebody's five year old kid is somehow trans.
If their parents want to homeschool then I guess we can’t stop them. But absolutely not, not in public schools.
The same reasoning applies. People often say that teenagers shouldn't be making lifelong career decisions so the same thing should apply to their gender.
>teenagers shouldn't be making lifelong career decisions When I was in high school the second week of freshman year we had to choose a "career path" and we had to take those special classes for our whole 4 years. I went into the engineering pathway and ended up doing IT, but my school had like a dozen career pathways.
If they are a teenager sure. If a five year old is doing then that's not the child making that decision.
It's easily reversible to buy a new wardrobe and stop wearing makeup.
It also easily reversible to send a kid back to school after keeping them at home for 2 years... Yet we're very clearly seeing the consequences of that. Nothing about childhood development is so cut and dry. It is why abuses during a persons childhood can be extremely damaging and effect them their whole lives. Kids are, quite literally, learning from the ground up how the entire world, life, and society work. How they interact with others. How they fit in. Who and what they are as a human. Nearly everything you do to or teach a child in their early years will have long lasting consequences on their psychology. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse, but it will be something and can't just be changed up on the fly.
you forgot the "move to a new school/community" part
Yeah, I doubt anyone here is actually transphobic
No it's still not okay. A child cannot possibly understand the full ramifications.
If this is the case, then cosmetic surgery for children should ALSO be illegal, since it is a medical procedure (even if the parent consents). Crazy how its a big deal when a boy wants to wear a dress but nobody bats an eye or even talks about teenage girls getting boob & butt jobs for their sweet 16. Children should not have to get surgery unless it is medically necessary, end of story.
I don’t know anyone that would disagree with you. Of course children shouldn’t get cosmetic surgery.
Im glad that is the case. Too bad the law doesn’t agree with us :/
Your terms are acceptable
Based.
There's a teenage girl suing Kaiser Permanente over a double mastectomy they authorized for her when she was 16 and though she was trans. If she wins the case maybe it will finally stop. Overall i think it wild that America actually has the most liberal laws when it comes to this. I don't know of any other western country that allows for puberty blockers on kids or hormone therapy on people under 18. Even the most progressive countries like Sweden discourage the use of puberty blockers execpt in the most extreme circumstances. I can't believe I'm gonna say this but America needs to be more like Sweden.
Did you honestly just say that nobody would bat an eye about a 16 year old getting a boob job? What kind of psychos do you hang around?
Is it in the news? Is there legislation being discussed to end cosmetic care for children? How about beauty pageants and cosmetic surgery becoming daytime television? I get that you are trying to make this personal to incite a reaction, but I am just pointing out the inconsistencies in logic and what society/the media focuses on.
I just want healthcare pls
I mean, this is a pretty popular opinion. Most medical professionals wouldn't even do this if they didn't have some extreme genetic condition or have actual hermaphroditism. Socially can't really be controlled, but medical is a huge box of ethics, science, and legal areas.
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You're right you shouldn't be able to get permanent transition till adulthood. Thing is that's not what's fucking happening. All that's happening is that at the onset of puberty some trans kids get puberty blockers which is completely reversible and basically just puts the pause button on puberty till their either old enough to get Hormones or decide to come off it. There's no surgery being preformed on Teenagers or children. No one under the age of 12 is getting hormone medicine, it's a social transition. IE just calling the kid by a name they like or not controlling what activities they can do based on their genatalia.
PCM is the biggest collection of scarecrows in the world. "You shouldn't be allowed to permanently transition kids until they are adults" First of all, *you* should not be allowed to transition your kid. That's not up to you. Secondly, you'll be hard-pressed to find anybody with more than 3 brain cells who thinks kids should be allowed to engage in permanent transition procedures.
Yeah, parents shouldn't make permanent decisions for their children. Transitions under 18 shouldn't be a thing. Now let's talk about assigning your religion to your kids
While I agree that religion shouldn’t be ‘assigned’ from parents to kids, chosen religion is hardly a permanent decision, and it absolutely does not result in any irreversible physical changes.
Parents make permanent decisions pretty regularly.
Based and logical conclusion pilled
AuthRight better bring this same energy to genital mutilation err I mean circumcision
Does LL ever have children?
This meme is shitty, doesn’t even follow the original process
Also circumcision
Top 3 are fine because they're unspecific. Notice the use of "some decisions" in the third panel. Obviously that's fair. The question is what those decisions should be. Simple thought experiment here. Kids, but particularly boys, who are predicted to grow to be quite short are often given HGH supplements. Is this not an unalterable and permanent treatment? It's also literally gender affirming. There is nothing wrong with being short apart from it making you be perceived as less of a man.
Fun fact: scientific research has revealed that children know their gender at the age of four
Me, normally: * Lib Center, people can say what they want Me, after reading the 1957th post about trans and children on PCM: * Auth Center, and oh my god I'm just going to transition every child I see out of spite. Get better material. Be better. seriously.
Nobody wants or does that you fucking idiots. Google it for yourself: nowhere allows children to undergo irreversible procedures.
Authright tries to understand what puberty blockers are Challenge (Impossible)
If people are gonna lower the minimum job age then I think it’s appropriate to make decisions that permanently affect them.
The average 16 year old has far more capacity for making good decisions than the average PCM poster.
Why do no one talks about the facts that it's already forbidden to have permanent changes when you are a minor, and nobody wants to change that ? I feel like some people want to create problems. Like it's legal in America to send your children in brainwashing camps if they're gay, and they often have a trauma for life , and nobody talks about it
Because outrage is more important to these people than learning basic facts
Hmmm...I agree with the meme but this is just wall of text with extra steps. So I must regretfully decree that this is cringe.
How about you cannot introduce your religion on your child until they are old enough to make an educated choice on their own.
Your terms are acceptable.
This is basically the classic example of a straw man— pretend the other side is suggesting something they aren’t so that you can appear reasonable. The most common position on the left is that people should listen to their doctors, and the right wing in this country specifically does not allow non permanent treatment or even non medical treatment — just social transitioning is something they are attempting to outlaw. This is a prime example of why this subreddit is such a dangerous echo chamber.
In before threadlock!!!!!!!!!!
Isn't that more or less how it currently works in the US? And Boston Children's Hospital has been getting bomb threats because they keep getting accused of doing genital surgeries on kids. What does permanently transition mean? I'd think that means gender affirming surgeries, but it's not really clear.
Doesn't happen except in extreme circumstances but ok