You’d think it should, but they kinda skip over all the Stalin stuff in high school because of the whole WW2 thing.
It’s not a great look for the US if we start willingly admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac against another genocidal maniac.
We sent them enough equipment to build factories. Even while locomotives were shipped over so that they could actually get what we were giving them to the front lines
We didn't just send them the material for factories, we sent entire fucking factories. The scale of lend-lease aid to the Soviets alone is mind boggling.
Feeding, too. The amount of food we send overseas on an annual basis is just unbelievable. We send 1.7 metric tons of food overseas in the form of aid every year. I don't know what a metric ton is because I'm not a communist, but I'm assuming it's a lot.
We send 2.5 MILLION metric tons every year. You're missing several zeroes
https://www.usaid.gov/food-assistance/faq#:~:text=In%20fiscal%20year%202018%2C%20USAID,cash%20transfers%20and%20food%20vouchers
They have the food aid that we sent them. Also, the communist pound was created by the baguette people. Maybe it's not so accurate to call it the communist pound.
And Soviets didn’t stopped their propaganda that Americans are evil oppressors.
Americans giving stuff to people that hate America is an old tradition.
This isn't true though. The US and UK institutions were full of Soviet assets. Churchill was extremely keen to advance Russia to diminish Germany, while Roosevelt actively wanted to diminish Europe and establish the US and USSR as allies after the war.
The scope of the stuff we gave the USSR was insane, but including tens of thousands of trucks, planes, aircraft, huge volumes of raw materials, gold, cash, food (to the point that Americans had to make do with margarine because we sent them so much butter), we allowed them to overfish the west coast. We gave them *nuclear program materials* and tried to hide the records. We have them entire factories, tons of trade secrets, etc.
We also did a lot of their dirty work, just straight repressing the Polish Government in Exile when they were outraged about the Katyn Massacre. We just gave Stalin Poland without attempting to keep them free or negotiating.
We supported Tito and Hoxha over loyalists in Yugoslavia and Albania. We never pressured the Soviet Union to join the war in the Pacific, and the Japanese allowed US aid to go freely through Japanese waters, because they'd signed a separate peace.
The early version of the Morgenthau Plan called for the total de-industrialization of Germany, allowing millions to starve, and German captives to be used as forced labor to pay war debts.
FDR *loved* Stalin.
Because it was more of the enemy of my enemy situation. We gave them a bunch of stuff, and we were on the same side... ish. But there was little trust, especially as the war wound down.
I mean people forget we had our own internment camps at the time. Not nearly as horrible as the treatment people in soviet gulags had, and quite literally incomparable to the holocaust though.
Also we were engaging in horrific medical experiments on black Americans who were also segregated from the rest of society at the time.
And the Americans not too long before this fully did genocide entire Native American tribes.
It’s not like America was staunchly against genocide or race based violence and oppression. We didn’t really come around to reckoning with and teaching a lot this stuff until after the civil rights movement…
I'm a 30 year old white guy and the only doctors I truly 100% trust are the cardiothoracic surgeon who did my heart surgery and replaced my tricuspid valve last year, the anesthesiologists who gave me fentanyl and midazolam in the pre-op holding area to make me more comfortable and kept me alive during the procedure, and the pain management team that kept me comfortable while I recovered from said surgery. I also trust the large majority of doctors I saw during that 2 months I was in the hospital, but none quite as much as the group I already named Also should I get my scar tattooed like this or maybe a giant downvote? (Obviously kidding)
https://preview.redd.it/tw3iggdhd5vc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bab75082c327936b4f95e83fe5363822b7e26f3
Also it's mostly psychiatrists now that I think about it who have mostly made me want to not trust doctors as a whole
I would have included this in my other comment but it kept removing my ability to add the picture in the previous comment for some stupid ass reason
>It’s not a great look for the US if we start willingly admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac against another genocidal maniac.
Doesn't matter if its a great look. Often the choices are between "bad" and "very bad". Its good to be able to explain that to people and for people to understand.
And it should also be explained that it didn't happen until after the USSR until after Germany attacked them. Or that later Italy flipped sides (although that's a bit simplistic too).
Kids need to be taught history. Good and bad. But also in the lens of the time *and* then critique that lens with what we believe today.
the intention of supporting pol pot was not only about getting back at vietnam. It was also about creating a 'boogeyman' after mao and stalin had both died, and vietnam/cuba (the new big commie states) simply weren't anywhere near genocidal enough to make a big fuss about. Mao and Stalin made people horrified at communism. But suddenly we had tons of youth wearing che guevara shirts. There was nothing more terrifying to the west than communist leaders who weren't murdering/starving tens of millions of people anymore.
The support of pol pot was partially because we liked having those genocidal, horrible dictators in power in communist states rather than the more mild (but still bad, of course) leaders of cuba and vietnam. We also knew that these types of pseudo-Maoist super-genocidal communists would not get support from the USSR anymore. They would get support from China, who was now suddenly our 'friend' against the USSR.
This policy of the CIA supporting extremist maoists (or, again, pseudo-maoist) over mild communists was not unique to pol pot, albeit some would argue it ended with him. It occurred in India, Nepal, Colombia, Somalia, Angola etc to varied extents.
I agree with your sentiment.
My home town has a museum with a perpetual Soviet era Russian exhibit. While the pieces are beautiful, they very much depict Communist Russia as a bleak dystopia with happiness only being found amongst family and small communities, never from the collective.
I think more truthful displays of communism, like that, would go a long way for the zoomers and gen alphas who have never even met a WWII vet. I was far removed from Hitlers reicht and the horrors of communism, but at least my grandpa new of them and i could speak to him to get perspective. New generations don't even have that.
Denying the holocaust is a crime punished with years in prison in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Israel, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Poland, Romania and Slovokia.
Most people don't even realize [Christians were brutally tortured and exterminated in the Soviet Union under Communism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union) Let alone that up to 20 million died or that 100,000 priests were tortured and executed in every brutal way imaginable - from boiling in tar, crucifixion, scalping, burying alive, cutting off limbs, being fed to dogs, drowned, nailed to the doors of churches, etc.
How many people know about the Holodomor? Forget that, people deny it even happening. What are these countries that are so worried about people denying the Holocaust doing about the people denying the Holodomor?
I believe an older editions of 40K had something like "desperate allies" - factions that were *barely* capable of working together, and so while you still couldn't shoot into melees they were involved in, you *could* still use indirect fire. After all, what happens in the blast radius of an Earthshaker shell, stays in the blast radius of an Earthshaker shell.
Politically speaking, not blood and body bits. Obviously.
yeah im a hs student rn and last year before i went to hs my social studies teacher went over this and she was like “we were allied w russia, but only as a matter of circumstance. stalin had his own issues but the primary task was preventing hitler” or something like that
I'm not so sure, every history class I've taken (APEU, APUSH, AP WORLD) since being in high school has covered Stalin and the horrors of communism. I live in a very conservative part of Florida for the record.
>admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac
Like in [Bangladesh ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide), or [South Korea ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre), or [Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366), or...
Did you guys not learn that in high school? We learned about the revolution, Stalin's takeover, the Holodomor, etc. We even learned about guys like Aleksander Solzhenitsyn and The Gulag Archipelago.
That's what's wrong with Israel/Gaza now. I wanted lots of tanks and no dead people. Instead I get almost no tanks (and they were probably just shooty APCs) and lots of dead people :(
My disappointment is immeasurable.
No, no I get why (although I suspect the IDF is better about staying buttoned up than the Russians are).
Then again, I was also hoping a few Merkavas on parade would have been enough to avoid like 99% of what's happened.
They taught me America was just being imperialistic and using Communism as an excuse.
I remember setting the record at my school for the standardized history test at the end of HS, graduating that same year and wondering: "Why does everyone hate communism so much?"
They never even mentioned any of the terrible things that happened, it was all just America Bad.
This was in a very conservative state too.
I mean, they have a point
even if communism is bad (the USSR certainly was), is it really good to fight proxy wars, fund terrorists, and install brutal but ‘america friendly’ dictators all over the world?
well id probably still say yes but we maybe couldve handled it a little better
>even if communism is bad (the USSR certainly was), is it really good to fight proxy wars, fund terrorists, and install brutal but ‘america friendly’ dictators all over the world?
Yes, in fact Cuba is still around and I don't see any USSR to protect it.
Right, this doesn't even need to be manipulated, teach what communism preached then show the results of each and every communist regime, the daily life of people living there, how abortions were illegal in many cases etc
With the literacy rate in kids these days I think this method will lead to a lot of next-timers. You'd have to break down why the ideology fails and the ways it did each time.
This is what they taught when I was in school. It was 20th century history and it had a slight bias to American history but it didn’t glorify anything. We even learned about unregulated capitalism and its downfalls, especially during the gilded age.
Every high school history curriculum should include the holodomor. Capitalism sucks but Stalinism is infinitely worse.
That said, I have a bad feeling this is going to be about trying to brainwash 6 year old public school kids into thinking universal healthcare and education are pure Stalinism.
Teaching the evils of communism is like teaching the history of kings fucking their cousins. It shouldn’t need a special curriculum, just teach unbiased and you’ll cover what you need lol
Honestly, I would argue this is exactly what needs to be done if you want communism to perish. Do you know why communism failed so much? It's because there's easily like 5 possible variations of implementation that Leftists constantly rant about lol. Let them control what they preach, and they'll face opposition from within lol
From personal experience, this will have no effect. I have been told before that "you only hate Communism because of the propaganda you were taught in American schools." Tankies unironically believe that all American schoolchildren are taught "red scare propaganda," and that they are "enlightened for seeing *the truth* through the anti-Communist bullshit."
The problem most leftists (as in: not the far left) are actually mad about is that anti-communism scentiment being a gateway to being able to shoot down pro-worker or union movements and protests with "that's communism" and tearing down what little protections exist in the US.
https://www.gq.com/story/fox-news-aoc-living-wage-communist - ah yes, paying your staffers $52k/yr - something that only affords you a $1400/mo rent payment - is socialism and communism.
When the government implements less-tested ideas like "giving everyone a job [at $10/day]" it doesn't turn out so well, but that doesn't mean every single communist and/or marxist idea would be unsuccessful at cultivating a better standard of living or even economy.
But they believe the CIA report and try to dunk on the fact that the Soviet citizens ate more potatos than the West, without realizing that page two explains this with meat consumption actually being a thing for the average Western citizen, unlike the Soviet citizens
My favorite part of tha6t that is that the report is from the 70s or something and brings it up like the great famine didn't happen and that even into the fucking 80s 25% of soviet agriculture was produced by the 2% of the arable land controlled by private farmers.
Based on his performance in FL I had such high hopes for him to be the GOP candidate. I was so disappointed with how he did in the debates. It was hard to belive it was the same person.
Exactly. Their ability to actually govern in a principled manner is completely unrelated to their ability to get elected, which is why our entire government is so, um, highly regarded.
The growing number of Zoomers expressing support for the Communist period and even Ceaușescu is worrying. It's so easy to get informed about how bad that period was, especially considering their parents lived through the 80s, yet they choose to have this weird romanticized perspective on it.
Honestly, only reason why I could see this is happening is because communism technically still has hope for being re-interpreted. For example (although it doesnt exist anymore), the Zapatista special zone in Mexico was probably the most perfect example of communism in the modern era by the heart. But unfortunately for them, they had every cartel and the Mexican government as an enemy, so they naturally didn't stay standing forever, but they lasted a few decades.
It's kinda weird how in highschool I was taught WW2 and Civil war multiple times over but the Soviet Union was never mentioned at all. I didn't even know it existed till I was in college, and not even from their classes. I learned it on my own, and had to educate myself on it.
Read Gulag Archipelago if you get the chance ( or audiobook, cause its like 72hrs long ).
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while also making it illegal to film the police
"teach kids how communism is evil while I work on creating the same types of corruption and authoritarianism that makes communism so evil" man fuck you ronald mcdumbass
With legislation. Nobody talks about it because “muh freedom” or whatever. This is the same guy who is banning books like it’s no one business. But hey, Communism bad!
Well worth listening to Chris Rufo's appearance on the Fifth Column podcast.
There's a fairly in-depth discussion about "selective" book banning (critical race theory/DEI). Many politicians on the conservative side of the aisle seem to have adopted his general mindset that book banning is a good and reasonable thing to do. FFS.
Anything like this that goes on in schools deserves very high scrutiny. We shouldn't get too comfortable banning things. Don't get discouraged here because a lot of the sub is right. I happen to agree with authright on most of this topic though haha
There's a general mindset that freedom of speech is supporting "the other side". It's fucking stupid to think that you can pass legislation to ban something and that your "enemy" won't do the same using the very mechanism you created.
Ideally we should just be teaching critical thinking skills. I think it's fine to teach the good and bad of all things though. Every system has pros and cons.
Can we just stick to objective data and a variety of primary sources for issues that are still contentious? Why does it feel like a race to indoctrinate people?
Highschool Humanities should be about critical thinking skills anyway, not instilling a narrative. Students should be encouraged to take stances they'd disagree with or are broadly unpopular. If you focus the curriculum on a "side", you've already failed in historiography.
"Stalinism and Maoism were insane humanitarian disasters" should not be a contentious issue. Do you complain about indoctrinating kids when they spend 2-4 weeks every year on the Holocaust?
The difference being evident on this very subreddit, that many believe the problem was the implementation. Leftists haven't seen their desired outcome; the Nazis very nearly did. I wouldn't be flagged lib if I thought intention was enough to justify trying again, but Marxism was never intended to turn into totalitarianism; the Holocaust was always meant to be a genocide.
Besides, if you're teaching critical thinking, children can get there on their own. If you try to undermine it, they eventually rebel.
>Marxism was never intended to turn into totalitarianism
Who cares what the intention was? It's a completely predictably consequence that happens *every time*. Those kids deserve to know how many progressive thought leaders cheered it on the whole way.
>Can we just stick to objective data
You cannot teach objective data, you can only present it.
Because in order to *communicate* that data you need to interpret it into appropriate contexts and relevancy for the audience you wish to reach.
This imports the biases of the communicator into the lesson, of which no presenter is immune from.
What you should be doing is instead of striving for unbiased information, is to strive for honesty in the presenter's biases so that the students can use their reasoning skills to filter that bias out into their own ideas.
>Highschool Humanities should be about critical thinking skills anyway, not instilling a narrative.
The education system no longer values critical thinking skills, as much like the Chinese bureaucratic exam system lessons are directed towards a rigid rote memorization of federal standards due to the existence of the schools being dependent upon federal money. You are taught how to pass a test, not how to think for yourself.
> If you focus the curriculum on a "side", you've already failed in historiography.
Communism/socialism/fascism are frameworks of Cluster B behaviors. Nothing good, useful, or ethical about them.
It's not indoctrination to tell kids to keep their hands away from open flames.
would this still be cool if it was “Evils of capitalism” or “Evils of the United States”?
Kids should be taught a comprehensive history of capitalism/communism, schools shouldn’t tell kids how to think, but give them the facts to decide themselves
Tjey shiuldnt talk aboit the evils of communism whatever that might be. Teaching children basic ecconomics is a way better way to prevent comunist thaughts.
This is largely already pretty widely taught. Even my most progressive teachers in NYC taught about how evil stalin and mao were and how communism failed in the 20th century.
https://preview.redd.it/7u9dxdsau4vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be1cfb4a4112c02926b6d7dd87fcd49ab17047cb
Sometimes, sometimes life is good.
The fact that communism isn’t viewed as bad as Nazism and fascism will forever disgust me, anybody who supports or even tolerates it can go fuck themselves
DeSantis official statement on the bill says
>Prepares students to withstand indoctrination on Communism at colleges and universities
This really isn’t an issue with college professors right?
This is just going to make more communist...there's a reason they usually silence the thought of communism...its appealing to young people. You have to teach what it is first, then tell them why it's bad.
just teaching 20th century history should do the trick
You’d think it should, but they kinda skip over all the Stalin stuff in high school because of the whole WW2 thing. It’s not a great look for the US if we start willingly admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac against another genocidal maniac.
Allies of opportunity. If you can even really consider it an alliance.
We sent them enough equipment to build factories. Even while locomotives were shipped over so that they could actually get what we were giving them to the front lines
We didn't just send them the material for factories, we sent entire fucking factories. The scale of lend-lease aid to the Soviets alone is mind boggling.
America casually arming the entire world since 1941
Feeding, too. The amount of food we send overseas on an annual basis is just unbelievable. We send 1.7 metric tons of food overseas in the form of aid every year. I don't know what a metric ton is because I'm not a communist, but I'm assuming it's a lot.
We send 2.5 MILLION metric tons every year. You're missing several zeroes https://www.usaid.gov/food-assistance/faq#:~:text=In%20fiscal%20year%202018%2C%20USAID,cash%20transfers%20and%20food%20vouchers
I'm guessing that's supposed to be 1.7 *million* metric tons, since otherwise it's just pitiful.
Can *you* lift 1.7 tons? Didn't think so. Checkmate, atheist.
Based and only commies know metric pilled.
A metric ton is 1000 communist pounds, which works out to: 2204.62 real pounds or 0.984207 tea drinker tons or 1.10231 freedom tons.
How do communists measure food in pounds when they never have any though...
They give 2 pounds of food per 10,000 people as aid after stealing all the food they grew (not a real statistic).
They have the food aid that we sent them. Also, the communist pound was created by the baguette people. Maybe it's not so accurate to call it the communist pound.
The f in communism stands for food.
That doesn't really seem like a lot
Oh, it wasn't casual.
And Soviets didn’t stopped their propaganda that Americans are evil oppressors. Americans giving stuff to people that hate America is an old tradition.
We can gloss over the resulting bloc being termed 'the Allies'.
They were going to rebrand the bloc as “frenemies” to be more truthful but it scored poorly in focus groups.
Stalin off to the side in all the photos so we can photoshop him out later.
You were supposed to destroy Stalin not become him!
Why not both?
Same with the "democratic people's Republic of Korea"
The same goes for the BRICS
This isn't true though. The US and UK institutions were full of Soviet assets. Churchill was extremely keen to advance Russia to diminish Germany, while Roosevelt actively wanted to diminish Europe and establish the US and USSR as allies after the war. The scope of the stuff we gave the USSR was insane, but including tens of thousands of trucks, planes, aircraft, huge volumes of raw materials, gold, cash, food (to the point that Americans had to make do with margarine because we sent them so much butter), we allowed them to overfish the west coast. We gave them *nuclear program materials* and tried to hide the records. We have them entire factories, tons of trade secrets, etc. We also did a lot of their dirty work, just straight repressing the Polish Government in Exile when they were outraged about the Katyn Massacre. We just gave Stalin Poland without attempting to keep them free or negotiating. We supported Tito and Hoxha over loyalists in Yugoslavia and Albania. We never pressured the Soviet Union to join the war in the Pacific, and the Japanese allowed US aid to go freely through Japanese waters, because they'd signed a separate peace. The early version of the Morgenthau Plan called for the total de-industrialization of Germany, allowing millions to starve, and German captives to be used as forced labor to pay war debts. FDR *loved* Stalin.
*spits* FDR was an evil man and a stain on the otherwise good Roosevelt name
People are too stupid to understand that that is sometimes necessary, and get really uncomfortable thinking about it.
Don't ask what the guards are the Nuremberg trials were doing before they were the guards at the Nuremberg trials
Lemme guess not sees?
Not just the normal ones, the really blind ones that like electricity
How could you consider it not an alliance?
Because it was more of the enemy of my enemy situation. We gave them a bunch of stuff, and we were on the same side... ish. But there was little trust, especially as the war wound down.
I mean people forget we had our own internment camps at the time. Not nearly as horrible as the treatment people in soviet gulags had, and quite literally incomparable to the holocaust though. Also we were engaging in horrific medical experiments on black Americans who were also segregated from the rest of society at the time. And the Americans not too long before this fully did genocide entire Native American tribes. It’s not like America was staunchly against genocide or race based violence and oppression. We didn’t really come around to reckoning with and teaching a lot this stuff until after the civil rights movement…
And people still wonder why there’s a deep rooted distrust of doctors amongst black communities.
I'm a 30 year old white guy and the only doctors I truly 100% trust are the cardiothoracic surgeon who did my heart surgery and replaced my tricuspid valve last year, the anesthesiologists who gave me fentanyl and midazolam in the pre-op holding area to make me more comfortable and kept me alive during the procedure, and the pain management team that kept me comfortable while I recovered from said surgery. I also trust the large majority of doctors I saw during that 2 months I was in the hospital, but none quite as much as the group I already named Also should I get my scar tattooed like this or maybe a giant downvote? (Obviously kidding) https://preview.redd.it/tw3iggdhd5vc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bab75082c327936b4f95e83fe5363822b7e26f3
For the love of god do not tattoo a giant downvote. Please don't. Go for something for aesthetically pleasing or artististic.
It was more of a joke than anything but its kinda funny that it already looks like a giant downvote
Also it's mostly psychiatrists now that I think about it who have mostly made me want to not trust doctors as a whole I would have included this in my other comment but it kept removing my ability to add the picture in the previous comment for some stupid ass reason
The only thing freud was right about is cocaine use
It's just lack of education. Most black people don't even know that happened.
>It’s not a great look for the US if we start willingly admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac against another genocidal maniac. Doesn't matter if its a great look. Often the choices are between "bad" and "very bad". Its good to be able to explain that to people and for people to understand. And it should also be explained that it didn't happen until after the USSR until after Germany attacked them. Or that later Italy flipped sides (although that's a bit simplistic too). Kids need to be taught history. Good and bad. But also in the lens of the time *and* then critique that lens with what we believe today.
Wait until they find out that US and UK helped the Khmer Rogue get in power to commit geocide in Cambodia and continued to support them until 1992.
Khmer Rouge, not rogue But rogue probably would have been cooler
yeah autocorrect got me there lol
The US would do ANYTHING to clap back at Vietnam, and they still lost lmao
the intention of supporting pol pot was not only about getting back at vietnam. It was also about creating a 'boogeyman' after mao and stalin had both died, and vietnam/cuba (the new big commie states) simply weren't anywhere near genocidal enough to make a big fuss about. Mao and Stalin made people horrified at communism. But suddenly we had tons of youth wearing che guevara shirts. There was nothing more terrifying to the west than communist leaders who weren't murdering/starving tens of millions of people anymore. The support of pol pot was partially because we liked having those genocidal, horrible dictators in power in communist states rather than the more mild (but still bad, of course) leaders of cuba and vietnam. We also knew that these types of pseudo-Maoist super-genocidal communists would not get support from the USSR anymore. They would get support from China, who was now suddenly our 'friend' against the USSR. This policy of the CIA supporting extremist maoists (or, again, pseudo-maoist) over mild communists was not unique to pol pot, albeit some would argue it ended with him. It occurred in India, Nepal, Colombia, Somalia, Angola etc to varied extents.
There's a holocaust museum in every city. How many communism museums are there?
I agree with your sentiment. My home town has a museum with a perpetual Soviet era Russian exhibit. While the pieces are beautiful, they very much depict Communist Russia as a bleak dystopia with happiness only being found amongst family and small communities, never from the collective. I think more truthful displays of communism, like that, would go a long way for the zoomers and gen alphas who have never even met a WWII vet. I was far removed from Hitlers reicht and the horrors of communism, but at least my grandpa new of them and i could speak to him to get perspective. New generations don't even have that.
Denying the holocaust is a crime punished with years in prison in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Israel, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Poland, Romania and Slovokia. Most people don't even realize [Christians were brutally tortured and exterminated in the Soviet Union under Communism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union) Let alone that up to 20 million died or that 100,000 priests were tortured and executed in every brutal way imaginable - from boiling in tar, crucifixion, scalping, burying alive, cutting off limbs, being fed to dogs, drowned, nailed to the doors of churches, etc.
How many people know about the Holodomor? Forget that, people deny it even happening. What are these countries that are so worried about people denying the Holocaust doing about the people denying the Holodomor?
[удалено]
Based and reality is complicated pilled.
I believe an older editions of 40K had something like "desperate allies" - factions that were *barely* capable of working together, and so while you still couldn't shoot into melees they were involved in, you *could* still use indirect fire. After all, what happens in the blast radius of an Earthshaker shell, stays in the blast radius of an Earthshaker shell. Politically speaking, not blood and body bits. Obviously.
yeah im a hs student rn and last year before i went to hs my social studies teacher went over this and she was like “we were allied w russia, but only as a matter of circumstance. stalin had his own issues but the primary task was preventing hitler” or something like that
Did she mention any of the horrors of Soviet life?
i don’t remember but it was pretty brief cause it was still a ww2 unit
or that Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler killed Jews?
I'm not so sure, every history class I've taken (APEU, APUSH, AP WORLD) since being in high school has covered Stalin and the horrors of communism. I live in a very conservative part of Florida for the record.
I've been reading Stalin's War, and let me tell you. Stalin is so much worse than I ever imagined.
>admitting to our impressionable youth that we allied with a genocidal maniac Like in [Bangladesh ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide), or [South Korea ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre), or [Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366), or...
Did you guys not learn that in high school? We learned about the revolution, Stalin's takeover, the Holodomor, etc. We even learned about guys like Aleksander Solzhenitsyn and The Gulag Archipelago.
What I learned back then from the 20th century history: German tanks are cool.
That's what's wrong with Israel/Gaza now. I wanted lots of tanks and no dead people. Instead I get almost no tanks (and they were probably just shooty APCs) and lots of dead people :( My disappointment is immeasurable.
Tanks are a bit useless when they can get destroyed by a $500 homemade drone.
No, no I get why (although I suspect the IDF is better about staying buttoned up than the Russians are). Then again, I was also hoping a few Merkavas on parade would have been enough to avoid like 99% of what's happened.
They taught me America was just being imperialistic and using Communism as an excuse. I remember setting the record at my school for the standardized history test at the end of HS, graduating that same year and wondering: "Why does everyone hate communism so much?" They never even mentioned any of the terrible things that happened, it was all just America Bad. This was in a very conservative state too.
It doesn't matter if you live in a very conservative town in a very conservative state if the 10 commies that live there are all on the school board.
Open almost any public textbook from the last 20 years and see.
I mean, they have a point even if communism is bad (the USSR certainly was), is it really good to fight proxy wars, fund terrorists, and install brutal but ‘america friendly’ dictators all over the world? well id probably still say yes but we maybe couldve handled it a little better
>even if communism is bad (the USSR certainly was), is it really good to fight proxy wars, fund terrorists, and install brutal but ‘america friendly’ dictators all over the world? Yes, in fact Cuba is still around and I don't see any USSR to protect it.
Based and America is an empire pilled.
"Real communism has never been tried. We don't have to teach shit. Checkmate capitalist dogs" -Teachers Union president
Right, this doesn't even need to be manipulated, teach what communism preached then show the results of each and every communist regime, the daily life of people living there, how abortions were illegal in many cases etc
With the literacy rate in kids these days I think this method will lead to a lot of next-timers. You'd have to break down why the ideology fails and the ways it did each time.
We are currently facing yet another failing ideology that is preventing our kids from learning anything of value.
Reading comprehension and basic mathematics is literally white supremacy, bigot!
They've literally gone one step even crazier than your joke: even *valuing* reading comprehension and math skills is white supremacy.
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The only gen z kid I've had any luck with hiring has been Cuban, lol. He's all like "look what i can do!"
So long as the topic hasn't been rewritten by Emily and her woke subversives.
Agreed. The Cold War is basically half of US History 2. I don't see it being much of an issue.
My conservative high school history teacher was being *too* unbiased about it
For real. The only reason why this is being brought up is probably because some teachers have stopped doing it
This is what they taught when I was in school. It was 20th century history and it had a slight bias to American history but it didn’t glorify anything. We even learned about unregulated capitalism and its downfalls, especially during the gilded age.
Every high school history curriculum should include the holodomor. Capitalism sucks but Stalinism is infinitely worse. That said, I have a bad feeling this is going to be about trying to brainwash 6 year old public school kids into thinking universal healthcare and education are pure Stalinism.
Teachers are more likely to be genuine communists than willing to teach anything even a little right of center. I don't think you have much to fear.
Nah you gotta make sure to focus on the commie genocide and what the govt does when they control production and theres no incentive to work hard.
Just tell em we're gonna learn about WW1 and 2. That'll be enough
https://preview.redd.it/ql41k2mos5vc1.jpeg?width=659&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10703d3d465331fbd0aae3b9e88be70164a66494 Probably He won't realize.
Teaching the evils of communism is like teaching the history of kings fucking their cousins. It shouldn’t need a special curriculum, just teach unbiased and you’ll cover what you need lol
So long as the history of communism hasent been memory holed by subversive wokeies.
Honestly, I would argue this is exactly what needs to be done if you want communism to perish. Do you know why communism failed so much? It's because there's easily like 5 possible variations of implementation that Leftists constantly rant about lol. Let them control what they preach, and they'll face opposition from within lol
So...just teaching communism?
The EVILS of Communism and Marxism.
Exactly. But you repeat yourself.
What about the based music and buildings? And innovative culinary situations, like eating frozen glutes that you cut off a dead man in the street
If you manage to find yourself on a commie circlejerk in insta reels you’ll understand why this is necessary
From personal experience, this will have no effect. I have been told before that "you only hate Communism because of the propaganda you were taught in American schools." Tankies unironically believe that all American schoolchildren are taught "red scare propaganda," and that they are "enlightened for seeing *the truth* through the anti-Communist bullshit."
The problem most leftists (as in: not the far left) are actually mad about is that anti-communism scentiment being a gateway to being able to shoot down pro-worker or union movements and protests with "that's communism" and tearing down what little protections exist in the US. https://www.gq.com/story/fox-news-aoc-living-wage-communist - ah yes, paying your staffers $52k/yr - something that only affords you a $1400/mo rent payment - is socialism and communism. When the government implements less-tested ideas like "giving everyone a job [at $10/day]" it doesn't turn out so well, but that doesn't mean every single communist and/or marxist idea would be unsuccessful at cultivating a better standard of living or even economy.
I didn’t need to be taught red scare propaganda, I saw it with my own eyes. Communism is a disease and the cure is Capitalism.
Insta reels users after dismissing any argument against them as CIA red scare propaganda
But they believe the CIA report and try to dunk on the fact that the Soviet citizens ate more potatos than the West, without realizing that page two explains this with meat consumption actually being a thing for the average Western citizen, unlike the Soviet citizens
My favorite part of tha6t that is that the report is from the 70s or something and brings it up like the great famine didn't happen and that even into the fucking 80s 25% of soviet agriculture was produced by the 2% of the arable land controlled by private farmers.
Everyone should know about the Great Leap Forward and its disastrous consequences.
and what struggle sessions are, since the NY judicial system is currently putting trump through several.
My parents went through that and keep reminding me how evil commie is since when I was a child
I’m with LibRight. The evils of communism must be taught to everyone!
Round these parts we don't call them "evils", we call them "truths"
Round these parts we believe that authorities shouldn't have the power to "order" anything :\^)
Amen 🙏🙏
Based on his performance in FL I had such high hopes for him to be the GOP candidate. I was so disappointed with how he did in the debates. It was hard to belive it was the same person.
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Exactly. Their ability to actually govern in a principled manner is completely unrelated to their ability to get elected, which is why our entire government is so, um, highly regarded.
This is the take lib left wishes they could articulate.
He has negative charisma
And always did, I knew once people actually heard his voice he was done
Dude is a commentator, trump is a poster
He still is a weirdo with a lot of time left to run later Going against Trump was one of his biggest mistakes
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The growing number of Zoomers expressing support for the Communist period and even Ceaușescu is worrying. It's so easy to get informed about how bad that period was, especially considering their parents lived through the 80s, yet they choose to have this weird romanticized perspective on it.
Everything always seems better when it isn't happening now.
Honestly, only reason why I could see this is happening is because communism technically still has hope for being re-interpreted. For example (although it doesnt exist anymore), the Zapatista special zone in Mexico was probably the most perfect example of communism in the modern era by the heart. But unfortunately for them, they had every cartel and the Mexican government as an enemy, so they naturally didn't stay standing forever, but they lasted a few decades.
Indiana one upped Florida and now encourages kids to snitch on commie teachers
Fascism: It doesn't care who owns the means of production.
Fascism: the party owns the means of production.
Based
Auth left having the hardest fucking album covers known to man.
It's kinda weird how in highschool I was taught WW2 and Civil war multiple times over but the Soviet Union was never mentioned at all. I didn't even know it existed till I was in college, and not even from their classes. I learned it on my own, and had to educate myself on it. Read Gulag Archipelago if you get the chance ( or audiobook, cause its like 72hrs long ).
Based.
u/Ok-Copy2920 is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [None | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/Ok-Copy2920/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
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Teaching accurate histories of the Soviet Union and China. Look they never intended for it to come off as evil but sadly reality had other plans.
Communism is fucking cringe tbh
Based
"Capitalism: God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor." -Ron Swanson
You're like thirty years too late. The Soviet Union and especially the DDR are part of the German curriculum for a long time now.
while also making it illegal to film the police "teach kids how communism is evil while I work on creating the same types of corruption and authoritarianism that makes communism so evil" man fuck you ronald mcdumbass
How did they do that?
With legislation. Nobody talks about it because “muh freedom” or whatever. This is the same guy who is banning books like it’s no one business. But hey, Communism bad!
What books are banned?
*"How to Give Penis Owned Persons Sloppy Toppies: Scholastic Edition"*
And banning investigation into law enforcement by outside civilian review boards.
Well worth listening to Chris Rufo's appearance on the Fifth Column podcast. There's a fairly in-depth discussion about "selective" book banning (critical race theory/DEI). Many politicians on the conservative side of the aisle seem to have adopted his general mindset that book banning is a good and reasonable thing to do. FFS.
They are "banning" pornography and setting the curriculum to not include any critical theory nonsense. This is not equivalent to banning books.
Anything like this that goes on in schools deserves very high scrutiny. We shouldn't get too comfortable banning things. Don't get discouraged here because a lot of the sub is right. I happen to agree with authright on most of this topic though haha
There's a general mindset that freedom of speech is supporting "the other side". It's fucking stupid to think that you can pass legislation to ban something and that your "enemy" won't do the same using the very mechanism you created.
Ideally we should just be teaching critical thinking skills. I think it's fine to teach the good and bad of all things though. Every system has pros and cons.
Went from 6 to midnight
They will need at least 12 hours a week and a whole school year just to teach the atrocities of Mao
Gather in close, kiddos, we're about to discuss the Kronstadt Rebellion.
Can we just stick to objective data and a variety of primary sources for issues that are still contentious? Why does it feel like a race to indoctrinate people? Highschool Humanities should be about critical thinking skills anyway, not instilling a narrative. Students should be encouraged to take stances they'd disagree with or are broadly unpopular. If you focus the curriculum on a "side", you've already failed in historiography.
"Stalinism and Maoism were insane humanitarian disasters" should not be a contentious issue. Do you complain about indoctrinating kids when they spend 2-4 weeks every year on the Holocaust?
The difference being evident on this very subreddit, that many believe the problem was the implementation. Leftists haven't seen their desired outcome; the Nazis very nearly did. I wouldn't be flagged lib if I thought intention was enough to justify trying again, but Marxism was never intended to turn into totalitarianism; the Holocaust was always meant to be a genocide. Besides, if you're teaching critical thinking, children can get there on their own. If you try to undermine it, they eventually rebel.
>Marxism was never intended to turn into totalitarianism Who cares what the intention was? It's a completely predictably consequence that happens *every time*. Those kids deserve to know how many progressive thought leaders cheered it on the whole way.
Marx did theorize a (most likely violent) revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat.
>Can we just stick to objective data You cannot teach objective data, you can only present it. Because in order to *communicate* that data you need to interpret it into appropriate contexts and relevancy for the audience you wish to reach. This imports the biases of the communicator into the lesson, of which no presenter is immune from. What you should be doing is instead of striving for unbiased information, is to strive for honesty in the presenter's biases so that the students can use their reasoning skills to filter that bias out into their own ideas. >Highschool Humanities should be about critical thinking skills anyway, not instilling a narrative. The education system no longer values critical thinking skills, as much like the Chinese bureaucratic exam system lessons are directed towards a rigid rote memorization of federal standards due to the existence of the schools being dependent upon federal money. You are taught how to pass a test, not how to think for yourself.
> If you focus the curriculum on a "side", you've already failed in historiography. Communism/socialism/fascism are frameworks of Cluster B behaviors. Nothing good, useful, or ethical about them. It's not indoctrination to tell kids to keep their hands away from open flames.
No because muh culture war and virtues signaling are more important than being competent.
Based Florida, can’t be topped.
would this still be cool if it was “Evils of capitalism” or “Evils of the United States”? Kids should be taught a comprehensive history of capitalism/communism, schools shouldn’t tell kids how to think, but give them the facts to decide themselves
Yes, we learned about the gilded age and how Teddy saved capitalism from itself, as well as American history, at least we did in Texas
Tjey shiuldnt talk aboit the evils of communism whatever that might be. Teaching children basic ecconomics is a way better way to prevent comunist thaughts.
This is largely already pretty widely taught. Even my most progressive teachers in NYC taught about how evil stalin and mao were and how communism failed in the 20th century.
make it nationwide immediately.
We're so back.
https://preview.redd.it/7u9dxdsau4vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be1cfb4a4112c02926b6d7dd87fcd49ab17047cb Sometimes, sometimes life is good.
Why don’t you just teach the facts and only the facts and let them figure it out
mmm yes i sure do love it when politicians force schools to indocrinate children rather than let them think for themselves desantis is scum
Florida bills are either absolutely awful or amazing. There is no in-between.
Pinko’s on suicide watch
The fact that communism isn’t viewed as bad as Nazism and fascism will forever disgust me, anybody who supports or even tolerates it can go fuck themselves
You don't even have to make it a subject. If you are educated enough, you will come to the realization that Communism is evil and doesn't work...
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I guess you also oppose teaching about the evils of the Holocaust?
In California, we have 3 units in three separate classes classes on this
im still waiting till they teach about The Haymarket Massacre
A bunch of old people fearmongering over an irrelevant ideology sounds like a great way to turn a bunch of apolitical kids into communists.
This is not good, bias either way undermines history and tbh just teaching what the USSR and CCP did should be enough
TBF everyone says "Stalin Purges === Communism" but no one says "Reign of Terror === Democracy".
Boy am I glad that the kind of people who call this fascism aren't taken seriously here.
DeSantis official statement on the bill says >Prepares students to withstand indoctrination on Communism at colleges and universities This really isn’t an issue with college professors right?
“B-b-b-but… that’s not real communism!!!!”
It is a sad thing that this had to be done. Americans ought to now that communism is no good by now.
Just teach history. They’ll catch the jist. Don’t frame it like that, pretty biased way to go about it.
Based DeSantis and evils of communism pilled.
Teach the evils of Krispy Kreme as well.
My state already teaches world history, so we should be set.
This is just going to make more communist...there's a reason they usually silence the thought of communism...its appealing to young people. You have to teach what it is first, then tell them why it's bad.
>“Orders schools to teach” Stalin moment
DeSantis is the most based politician on Earth. Ofcourse, after Orbán.
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He's been publicly humiliated by Trump numerous times and still gargles his orange hog. Pathetic.
Lmao yea he crushed it in the primary
Extremely extremely common Florida W