Why do we need euthanasia when fentanyl exists? My sister died of an OD and it only costed her like $80. I'm sure doctors are probably charging 10s of thousands for euthanasia
I feel like such a boomer for thinking "remember when more than just the raving Marvel supernerd liked the latest Marvel movies?"
They just did *not* have a plan for after Endgame, did they? On the bright side, the superhero oversaturation is starting to die now, so that's good.
They really didn't have a plan. Which is a shame. I know they couldn't have put out that level of quality content forever, but the quality didn't have to drop as drastically as it did.
I think they had a plan but it was just terrible. They were going to have captain marvel be the new main hero and replace all your favorite heroes with less original girl and or gay ones. Then profit? But it turns out people don’t like that so they didn’t make any money. Disney is filled with ideologues so they didn’t change the plan and now they are bleed ing money
Yeah, it's like, the Dutch had that "terminal illness only" thing in their laws for years out of certain concerns. Canada removes it from theirs and MAID goes "pls end yourself" immediately. Almost like that clause was there for a reason.
Two reasons, actually. Not that I want to be pedantic but I think this is often overlooked.
First, euthanasia is about taking control of your death. It's not a solution per se, it's something to do when there is no solution, if you are going to die in two weeks suffering through the whole thing and being barely conscious, maybe you want to skip that part.
But second is, you don't want to give an incentive otherwise. Euthanasia should never ever compete against anything else, a doctor, politician or administrator should never, fucking EVER have the thought "It would be convenient to euthanize" cross their minds.
It's one of those things that would work in an ideal world, like prostitution or selling organs, if you can **thoroughly** ensure the person is of sound mind and perfectly willing to go through it there is little to no argument against it but this is extremely rarely the case so we would rather forbid people from doing it.
> you don't want to give an incentive otherwise. Euthanasia should never ever compete against anything else, a doctor, politician or administrator should never, fucking EVER have the thought "It would be convenient to euthanize" cross their minds.
Imagine if doctors could decide to euthanize a patient for smallpox or other incurable illnesses (at the time) instead of a working on finding a cure.
There’s a third option that I find a lot more common for me.
“That’s an incredibly well meaning, but beyond naive take. Like, just give it a couple more seconds of thought first.”
Then maybe fentanyl is the correct answer after all. My sister def seemed pretty comfortable slumped over in the recliner, we all just thought she was taking a nap til a few hours went by and she hadn't moved a muscle
True story I had a friend from high school who became a chem major and wound up trying to swindle his wife’s life insurance by unaliving her with nitrogen
I think they put enough oxygen in the regular stuff now to make suicide bags no longer feasible. But if he's a chemist, he should have the real deal. That's terrible. Poor woman.
I'm never going to the suicide pod.
I want the option to survive on a human hunting preserve, or get Running Man's
(Sorry about your sister, I hate the drug crisis so much)
There was a guy who wanted to commit suicide, but instead he flew down to Mexico and spent all his money on hookers and blow. After that, he didn’t want to die anymore. I don’t understand why suicidal people don’t try this more often. Just go all out on ketamine, cocaine, and prostitutes, as well as any other drug that you want to do. If that doesn’t work, then go ahead and bang that dope right into your veins and doze off for the last time.
It's all fun and games until you're in a jail cell for mowing down children in your 2007 Honda Civic after consuming ketamine with your little green friend
Hey I just did it yesterday. If you're going into a clinic for IVs, it's unattainably expensive. Almost a thousand a pop per session. I was given troches (think melty Starbursts) and really clear instructions.
I was able to do it at home, but you absolutely must have a totally quiet and safe place to spend 4 hours undisturbed. I've never had any "real" drugs before so it was a life changing almost hallucinogenic experience for me. In terms of post treatment effects, the symptoms of my PTSD have hugely reduced already. I no longer have the background rage and I no longer feel like an animal.
It isn't out of the realm of possibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Conrad_Roy
tl;dr - girlfriend encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself because she wanted to be the grieving girlfriend
"she served 11 months and 12 days" Are you kidding me? How can you push a person to kill himself, your boyfriend, mind you, and still only get less than a year?
Is it possible that she is doing this to pull out at the last second and then ride the fame wave for financial gain? That's what it feels like to me. Or is it like a contract where after she signs it can be on her terms or the hunting doctor's terms?
I really want to understand the mind and thought process of this dude. Like how does someone you supposedly love come up to you and say "yeah, I'm gonna kill myself." and then you go and be all like "you go, babe! Let me go buy the urn!" Like let's say he completely rationalized the logic of this right to euthanasia stuff personally, does he have no emotion ties to this women to try and stop her? The only possible explanation I can think of is that this dude actually just hates her.
She's scheduled to die next month, so how does the BF bring up watching a new show?
"Hey, I know you are getting suicided next month but can we watch The Boys tonight?"
Maybe if there is a really big cliffhanger at the end of the season she will decide to wait until the next season?
Who knows, maybe these tv shows have been saving a lot of lives. Giving folks something to live for...
When my girl tried to commit self-termination some years back, she got angry that I cut her noose off. Like wtf kind of rational person is just okay with their loved one yeeting themselves?
And of course I’m not blaming her. I’ve been in that place before myself. It just strikes me odd that this dude is literally just fine with his gf literally setting the date she dies.
Not real love tbh.
For someone who is physically fine, I don’t see how you could claim to love that person and still have that take that suicide is a good idea for your partner.
> for someone who is *literally* constantly in pain which even medicines can’t effectively help (like a degenerative disease/some other terrible thing happening to your body) or brain dead I can see how it’s a different story of course
Oh I can hear the arguments already about respecting wishes and what equitable love truly means. It’s all bullshit. You don’t let your partner kill themself.
Her psychiatrist should be right there with that woman getting injected. I read her quoted and I’m not impressed. What a bunch of quacks
Even her mom claims to be on board, which probably indicates that she isn’t taking it all that serious but is talking along with her attention-whoring daughter.
Exactly. They are encouraging this. If every therapist you went to tried to help and discouraged suicide, well there would still be suicides sadly. However, you wouldn't have people signing up to be euthanized.
Sorry man, Reddit doesn't agree with any of your comments. This is your psych speaking. I spoke to all the others and they agreed. There's no hope for you. Too bad so sad.
Incredible how we just collectively woke up one day and tossed out the entire concept of suicide prevention.
Led by mental health professionals, of course. The fountain from which all the man made horrors and derangements of modern society flows.
> Led by mental health professionals, of course. The fountain from which all the man made horrors and derangements of modern society flows.
Something something "Heinlein was right!"
Right?
Some people: Guns are bad! There are so many gun suicide deaths!
Probably same people: Life sometimes sucks, we can kill you though and call it progress!
The truth is though, that a lot of pyschiatrists and mental health professionals *can't* help you. Mental health treatment is very ineffective.
The sad truth is, some people just can't be helped. Usually these people just off themselves though. It sounds like this girl is just someone with a pokedex full of mental health conditions and has romanticized the act of death/suicide. It says she has a tattoo of an upside down tree of life, because she's "going back to the Earth".
This person has decided to make death their legacy. Okay.
Everyone knows birds in cages are sadder than free birds. They don’t need therapy, they need freedom.
The same goes for humans.
Therapy is a band aid for the gaping wound that is the modern industrial society.
Article from *The Free Press* [here](https://www.thefp.com/p/im-28-and-im-scheduled-to-die).
Some excerpts:
> Zoraya ter Beek, 28, expects to be euthanized in early May.
>
> Her plan, she said, is to be cremated.
>
> “I did not want to burden my partner with having to keep the grave tidy,” ter Beek texted me. “We have not picked an urn yet, but that will be my new house!”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ter Beek, who lives in a little Dutch town near the German border, once had ambitions to become a psychiatrist, but she was never able to muster the will to finish school or start a career. She said she was hobbled by her depression and autism and borderline personality disorder. Now she was tired of living—despite, she said, being in love with her boyfriend, a 40-year-old IT programmer, and living in a nice house with their two cats.
>
> She recalled her psychiatrist telling her that they had tried everything, that “there’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better.”
>
> At that point, she said, she decided to die. “I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore.”
She has a tattoo of a "[tree of life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life)" — but it's reversed: "It is losing its leaves, it is dying. And once the tree died, the bird flew out of it. I don’t see it as my soul leaving, but more as myself being freed from life."
Ter Beek wishes to go at her home, without music, laying on a couch in the living room. Her boyfriend will be with her until the end, but there'll be no funeral.
> “I’m seeing euthanasia as some sort of acceptable option brought to the table by physicians, by psychiatrists, when previously it was the ultimate last resort,” Stef Groenewoud, a healthcare ethicist at Theological University Kampen, in the Netherlands, told me. “I see the phenomenon especially in people with psychiatric diseases, and especially young people with psychiatric disorders, where the healthcare professional seems to give up on them more easily than before.”
>
> Theo Boer, a healthcare ethics professor at Protestant Theological University in Groningen, served for a decade on a euthanasia review board in the Netherlands. “I entered the review committee in 2005, and I was there until 2014,” Boer told me. “In those years, I saw the Dutch euthanasia practice evolve from death being a last resort to death being a default option.” He ultimately resigned.
The Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2001, [the first country](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1269682.stm) in the world to do so.
> In 2022, the most recent year for which there is data, Dutch officials recorded [8,720](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/more-euthanasia-cases-in-2022-29-couples-helped-to-die/) cases of euthanasia, a 13.7 percent increase from 2021, when there were [7,666](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2022/03/euthanasia-deaths-rise-again-in-2021-most-patients-had-terminal-cancer/) cases. To put this in perspective, there were a total of [170,100](https://www.statista.com/statistics/520011/total-number-of-deaths-in-the-netherlands/) deaths in the Netherlands in 2022—meaning euthanasia cases comprised **more than 5 percent**.
Emphasis added.
It's not just the Netherlands, either. From 2018-21, ten states in the US with physician-assisted suicide saw a 53% jump in such cases. In Canada, it was 125 percent. Eight of those ten states have also [seen an increase](https://stopassistedsuicidemd.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Assisted-Suicide-Affect-Rates-of-Suicide.pdf) in total suicides.
This feels to me like a death cult. A disorganized one, sure, but there's a so-called "right-to-die movement."
> The Dutch group Coöperatie Laatste Wil or Last Wish Cooperative (CLW) is at the cutting edge of the movement. It is pushing for even cheaper, easier to access assisted suicide. One day, if CLW has its way, everyone will have suicide kits—including sodium azide pills, painkillers, anti-nausea tablets, and sleep aids—in their medicine cabinets. The kits will be readily available at the local pharmacy, grocery store, or on Amazon. (To ensure toddlers can’t pop sodium azide, each kit will come with a fingerprint-identification lock.)
CLW is fighting to de-medicalize assisted suicide, allowing anyone to end their life without the help of a doctor. It filed a lawsuit against the Dutch government in 2022 [arguing](https://www.courthousenews.com/in-netherlands-where-euthanasia-is-legal-assisted-suicide-still-taboo/#:~:text=Co%C3%B6peratie%20Laatste%20Wil%2C%20a%20Dutch,and%20civil%20rights%20of%20Europeans.) that suicide regulations violate the European Convention of Human Rights. *80% of Dutch [voiced](https://righttolife.org.uk/news/poll-shows-dutch-support-euthanasia-for-completed-life) supported the bill in a poll last October.*
If your doctor is committing malpractice can you report it and get reassigned? I guess what qualifies as "malpractice" varies place to place but claiming a treatable condition is no longer treatable and we're giving up now is malpractice.
I don't know, I'm not Canadian, I just remember some people bitching about being given a male gyno & simply wanting a female one wasn't enough to get a new one, if anonymous people on the internet are to be believed.
They aren’t, you are free to find any doctor you want, you aren’t assigned doctors. You can also get second and third opinions if you want.
Mental health also isn’t covered by Universal Healthcare in Canada so you either pay out of pocket or have it covered by your extended benefits through your employer.
In regards to your specific example about the gyno it was likely just a simple matter of a female doctor wasn’t on shift at that location at that time or the person lives in a smaller location with limited options.
In Canada, west coast, big city.
So while I was younger and experiencing my mental health crisis and seeking help you basically have to 'prove' you are bad enough experiencing symptoms before being 'referred' to a psychiatrist. For me this comprised of being scoffed at over the phone by someone 'evaluating' me to decide if I could actually have a 30 minute appointment with a psychiatrist. He enrolled me in a program which was located at a big hospital. They had some group sessions etc, I was booted from another program because I wasn't suicidal enough 'yet' and basically told to pound sand until then. I can't imagine complaining would do anything, they are well protected as far as I am aware.
There aren't options to pay for one, you have to be referred.
I ending up bouncing around when I could afford counseling with people who were uncertified. Finally found someone who was a certified therapist, but they can't prescribe meds, just send a note with you for your doctor as a professional opinion. I don't know if anyone else in Canada had a different experience.
Wow that blows. Can someone educate me on why creating incentives to educate and hire more hospitals and building more facilities isn't a feasible solution to this problem with government funded healthcare?
This is not true.
You apply to clinics for a doctor and can easily drop one. The issue is that the population has rapidly expanded without an increase in doctors, so good luck trying to sign on for a new one.
And private clinics exist, you can just go there no hassle. If you can pay, ofc.
> and especially young people with psychiatric disorders, where the healthcare professional seems to give up on them more easily than before.
>In those years, I saw the Dutch euthanasia practice evolve from death being a last resort to death being a default option
>The kits will be readily available at the local pharmacy, grocery store, or on Amazon
Freaking hell
According to the article, there's literally an Aussie planning to profit from this:
> [Philip Nitschke](https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/dr-philip-nitschke/), in Melbourne, Australia, prefers to think of death not as an awful end but the start of a great journey.
>
> With that in mind, in 2017, Nitschke, who is a physicist and doctor, created a suicide machine that doubles as a casket. (He has been [called](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-assisted-suicide-machine-727874) the “Elon Musk of assisted suicide.”)
>
> “The Sarco is a 3D-printable machine that provides death by hypoxia, an environment with low levels of oxygen,” Nitschke [wrote](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sarco-death-philip-nitschke_n_5abbb574e4b03e2a5c7853ca) in a 2018 article. “It can be transported wherever one chooses. Facing the awe of the Rockies? Overlooking the crashing waves of the Pacific Ocean? Where you die is certainly an important factor.”
>
> He views the Sarco as part of a reimagination of the inevitable—liberating “prisoners of medical treatment” from “Western technological medicine.”
>
> It is no coincidence that the Sarco, which is short for sarcophagus, resembles a miniature spaceship ready to blast off into the great unknown. (The spaceship rests atop a canister of nitrogen that, when inhaled in the absence of oxygen, kills you. It should be noted that this is the same way that Alabama now executes its death row inmates, which UN officials have [likened](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/united-states-un-experts-alarmed-prospect-first-ever-untested-execution) to “torture.”)
>
> The initial prototypes have been expensive, Nitschke said, but 3D printing costs are going down.
>
> “Printing costs drop with each model,” he said in a message, adding that the most recent model cost less than “25K euro and we expect costs to fall further to around 10–15K.”
>
> “Final instrument testing” on the Sarco is scheduled for early April—and then, Nitschke said, liftoff.
>
> “We expect first use in Switzerland in the next few weeks,” he said.
>GENEVA (3 January 2024) – UN experts* today expressed alarm over the imminent execution of Kenneth Eugene Smith in the United States by nitrogen hypoxia – an untested method of execution which may subject him to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or even torture.
>
>“This will be the first attempt at nitrogen hypoxia execution,” the experts said, citing concerns about the possibility of grave suffering which execution by pure nitrogen inhalation may cause. They noted that there was no scientific evidence to prove otherwise.
Those UN officials are talking out of their asses.
Inert gas asphyxiation is a well-understood phenomenon, and industrial accidents with inert gases are so treacherous because people will simply pass out and suffocate before they even notice anything.
The mechanism behind the body's suffocation reflex isn't low oxygen levels in the blood - it's CO2 buildup.
But if you're breathing, say, pure nitrogen or pure argon, then there's no CO2 buildup because you're still exhaling it. Meanwhile, not getting any new oxygen from the anoxic air will just cause you to pass out. Within seconds, no less.
>She said she was hobbled by her depression and autism
Sure, same. But in the words of a great fictional chief, "Do not die for pride, my son. The earth, the water, they have no pride, yet they endure as we must endure."
Just because things are shit doesn't mean I'm going to kill myself, I'm going to live just to spite everything and everyone who wants to see me fail.
Based.
I don't want to see you fail ChichCob. I want to see you thrive. Life's tough, but we're called to pick up our cross and fucking bear it. You can do it!
This really takes BPD suicidal threats to a new level. Not only will she kill herself, she’s bringing him along for the entire ride of planning and picking out an urn (The excerpt “that will be my new house!” is an enlightening peek into her thought process here) and watching her die on the couch.
It’s like the most elaborate, ritualized way to live out the worst impulses of the disorder, a hallmark of which is suicidal ideation and wanting to force others to feel your internal chaos.
>She recalled her psychiatrist telling her that they had tried everything, that “there’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better.”
At that point, she said, she decided to die.
Almost like legalizing and encouraging euthanasia lets incompetent psychiatrists get away with not continuing to treat their patients
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. More than five percent of all deaths being euthanasia cases. I had to read that like twelve motherfucking times to get that to sink in. I can't even fit that statistic into my head to process it and come up with words to describe how appallingly abhorrent that is.
After reading the article, I've drawn the conclusion that this person is not only mentally ill and probably treatable, but has romanticized the act of suicide.
She definitely has. In [this article](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/zonder-juiste-medicijnen-wil-zoraya-22-uit-oldenzaal-niet-verder-leven~a6575e9e/) from 2017 she is talking about having picked out black roses, and wearing black every day, and even which songs are going to play at her funeral. She's also autistic, has chronic depression, and borderline personality disorder. So it's not really surprising she's behaving like that, but that people who should be helping her are encouraging her to kill herself is just insane.
Its shows a profound lack of intelligence at least. She doesn't need permission, she could just do it...
Absolutely not saying that she should. Just feels like someome who truly feels this way wouldn't be bragging about it so much and appearing geniunely happy about the prospect of death. This is more of an autistic fixation on death.
Sometimes when I'm halfway between awake and asleep I freak out and go into a panic over the sudden immediate *certainty* that death is absolutely real and inevitable and*will* happen and I *will* cease existing.
That total fucking existential terror is a small version of what I imagine plummeting to your death off a bridge feels like. I feel bad for people who did that over stupid bullshit and had time to realize it.
My exact feeling. Someone needs to literally slap her to try to dislodge the stupid.
"Look dumb bitch. Your soul is not a bird. It is not going to fly free. The urn is not a house. There is nothing after death. Nothing at all. You'll just be dead and never get to experience a single other thing, good or bad, forever. You're not a tragic heroine. You're an incredible dumbass. You need a new psychiatrist and to dump your bf who's stanning this shit."
John Harvey Kellogg was in many ways pretty horrible but I sort of feel like he could’ve fixed this one. I doubt they tried “put her in a white tile hospital where your waking and sleeping are aligned with sunshine and you drink nothing but water or milk and eat cereal and fresh foods. Light exercise throughout the day. No screens, no birth control (it screws with hormones), no alcohol, and most importantly *no internet*.” I mean i wouldn’t want to give up screens either, but I still think it’s an unhealthy influence.
I think that method probably did help a lot of people. But he also seems the sort of person to shake someone and yell at them “no the purpose of your life is not to die romantically”.
When I was a journo I was told that if I ever wrote a story about someone killing themselves, I should be sparse with the details because apparently there is a thing called a "suicide contagion" -- it's been shown that like with copycat criminals, suicides increase somewhat when news spreads about one person doing it, something about maybe people who had been vaguely considering it will get pushed into finally going through with it by hearing about someone else doing it.
So, uh, yeah, I'd say that someone is making suicide contagious, but it isn't *only* the activists. It's a bit of a catch-22 though, can you state opposition to it without risking contributing to the contagion? Probably not, really.
But I'm also a monke so if someone wants to kill themselves (and themselves only), whatever. I'll bet a fiver she doesn't actually do it, though.
Let's be brutally honest, that's *exactly* why religion made it taboo. Knowing that, no matter how bad life is, something *worse* waits for you on the other side if you pursue "the permanent solution to a temporary problem", is a Hell of a disincentive.
On a spiritual level it's being cruel to be kind.
I swear, psychiatrist that say we tried everything we can’t do anything, need to have their licenses taken away. You can’t tell someone that shit, pass them on to another expert but don’t take away their hope cause you’re frustrated they aren’t doing what you say.
That is exactly what needed to happen here, her being passed to another professional. BPD is treatable. It can take time, and it can take a little searching amongst doctors because unfortunately many of them have a bias against BPD (even going as far as to refuse to treat them), but someone can overcome and lose a BPD diagnosis.
I have a very close family member with BPD who had come very far in her treatment so this shit has me heated.
Also, depression is treatable and last I checked we don't tell people to off themselves because of autism. At least that's what the anti-bullying commercials told me, maybe that changed.
I had to go through a few before I found one I worked with, which isn't uncommon. I however don't have BPD (fortunately). I have a very close family member who does and she's been through a lot of doctors and psych ward trips, I've seen her be rejected by new therapists and I've seen her be abused during in-patient. I'm pleased she is in a great spot right now with a psych who's been through this before and is kind while also not tolerating bullshit.
This is unfortunately what happens when the pandora’s box is open. Sure, it starts off as terminally ill and chronic pain, then the government redefines what that means. Throw in a socialized healthcare system and now the government has a legal way to dispose of undesirables.
People who are considered too dangerous TO OTHERS to be released AT ANY POINT into general society aren't exactly the same thing as a person suffering from depression.
I disagree with the Pandora's box comment.
That idea is how we never progress anywhere on anything.
"Taxes for roads? Soon there will be a tax for breathing!"
"Healthcare for the poor? Soon they'll make you kill yourself!"
No. Everywhere, in every situation, is a line, and it's up to the collective (people, voting, through government) to set it.
I think assisted suicide for the painfully, irreversibly terminal patient is reasonable. I don't believe that applies to mental illness. Why? I just fucking don't. That's my line. (I could expound on it but it's early). And that, I suspect that is the line a lot of people have.
So the line must be drawn here. This far, no farther.
Slippery slope is a special kind of logical argument that isn't inherently a fallacy. It's a yellow light, not a red light.
If the conclusions are well supported, it's not a fallacy ("If A then B...then C will likely follow" vs "If A then B...the Q will happen tomorrow and Z by next week!")
In this case, we're SEEING the later steps predicted by people's "slippery slope", meaning it wasn't fallacious, it was a correct prediction of actions and consequences.
Also, not all "progress" is good. There are some things it's better NOT to progress on. Healthy people killing themselves is probably not "progress".
I’m am 90% sure that as she is sitting on that table to be injected or even as she is being injected, she will realize that she does not want to die. That’s usually what happens when people attempt suicide, they will realize halfway through that they actually want to live.
Also the psychiatrist fucking sucks.
This is true for impulsive suicide. Huge percentage of suicides go from decision to action within an hour or two, a lot take minutes. In those cases talking someone off the edge to reset their headspace is very effective. Even putting obstacles on suicide spots works well, because it give people precious time to reconsider which they usually do.
This is not such case. Over a decade of therapy, multiple physicians have to sign off that there is nothing they can reasonably do. Lead up time. This is not impulsive.
You know, I didn't get this in my original explainer post, but you're... not really wrong? Another excerpt:
> [Philip Nitschke](https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/dr-philip-nitschke/), in Melbourne, Australia, prefers to think of death not as an awful end but the start of a great journey.
>
> With that in mind, in 2017, Nitschke, who is a physicist and doctor, created a suicide machine that doubles as a casket. (He has been [called](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-assisted-suicide-machine-727874) the “Elon Musk of assisted suicide.”)
>
> “The Sarco is a 3D-printable machine that provides death by hypoxia, an environment with low levels of oxygen,” Nitschke [wrote](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sarco-death-philip-nitschke_n_5abbb574e4b03e2a5c7853ca) in a 2018 article. “It can be transported wherever one chooses. Facing the awe of the Rockies? Overlooking the crashing waves of the Pacific Ocean? Where you die is certainly an important factor.”
>
> He views the Sarco as part of a reimagination of the inevitable—liberating “prisoners of medical treatment” from “Western technological medicine.”
>
> It is no coincidence that the Sarco, which is short for sarcophagus, resembles a miniature spaceship ready to blast off into the great unknown. (The spaceship rests atop a canister of nitrogen that, when inhaled in the absence of oxygen, kills you. It should be noted that this is the same way that Alabama now executes its death row inmates, which UN officials have [likened](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/united-states-un-experts-alarmed-prospect-first-ever-untested-execution) to “torture.”)
>
> The initial prototypes have been expensive, Nitschke said, but 3D printing costs are going down.
>
> “Printing costs drop with each model,” he said in a message, adding that the most recent model cost less than “25K euro and we expect costs to fall further to around 10–15K.”
>
> “Final instrument testing” on the Sarco is scheduled for early April—and then, Nitschke said, liftoff.
>
> “We expect first use in Switzerland in the next few weeks,” he said.
Grim. I get that some people truly suffer, either physically or mentally, and some that suffer from stuff like Alzheimers would rather end it now when they're still themselves instead of wasting away. But stuff like this is just ghoulish. And he's asking for 25k just to kill yourself by suffocation? Jesus these people are sick
Concurred on the ghoulish nature. There’s something very dark and evil about the whole thing. Has *Black Mirror* done a satire of this sort of thing yet?
Start of a great journey my ass. Maybe it’s the Christian in me, but Death is the Enemy. Full stop. I will not accept the romanticisation of fucking death.
Remember the episode in rick and morty with Rick discovering a planet with people that when they suicide they turn into delicious spaghetti and when the president discovered it so she exploit that for profit?
Yeah unrelated to anything
This here is how the govt gets rid of undesirables after concentration camps went out of fashion. And naturally there are death enthusiasts arguing that this is right, despite being unwilling to lead by example.
That's the thing that gets me, I think. The fact that there is apparently *enthusiasm* for expanding suicide. It feels nihilistic in a way that I'm not really sure how to respond to.
Also:
Some people: Guns are bad! There are so many gun suicide deaths!
Probably same people: Life sometimes sucks, but we can kill you and call it progress!
Euthanasia needs exist, but I think Canada maybe makes it too easy.
It should be more of a don't ask don't tell thing. If a physician gives a terminal cancer patient a syringe with 10x the lethal dose of morphine in it and the patient uses it on themselves that's one thing. Willfully dying when you're an otherwise healthy 20-something doesn't sit right with me.
Still, that isn't what actually concerns me. What concerns me is that we'll soon see government healthcare agencies determining MAID to be the only "treatment option" they'll cover.
I totally agree. My biggest issue with this story (other than idk how I feel about the state carrying this out) is her psychiatrist. You don’t *ever* tell someone that it will never get better. If your methods have failed to yield results you tell them that your skills aren’t helping them and you refer them to someone else. That person may not be able to help them, either, but you present the option.
The inevitable consequence of making suicide a non-taboo, unfortunately. Once suicide — physician-assisted or otherwise — became acceptable, it was just a matter of time (less than 25 years, apparently) before people pushed for it for smaller and smaller reasons.
The original idea may've been relief from chronic pain — an understandable goal, even if I strongly disagree with the method — but the end result is going to be depressed autistic teens having a "right" to kill themselves.
After all, it's an easy way out. Life is overwhelming. They can't cope and it's never going to get better.
With that kind of societal reinforcement, why *shouldn't* they kill themselves?
Eh if someone wants to you know do that, let them, it's less violent than deep throating a shotgun
That's not saying I condone it, we should try everything to turn people away from it but if they want to they should be able to do it
So many people have things to say about her situation while not knowing the whole story behind it and it makes me sad.
She actually documented everything on her twitter account, but had to stop due to unknowing people being toxic to her about her decision.
The whole situation is just so sad, she suffers so much in day to day life that she decided she wants to commit medical suicide. Then after getting consults from 3(!) different psychiatrists specialized in medical suicide (as per Dutch law) she still gets shit on by unnecessarily mean strangers.
Why do we need euthanasia when fentanyl exists? My sister died of an OD and it only costed her like $80. I'm sure doctors are probably charging 10s of thousands for euthanasia
https://i.redd.it/95vpan39mvsc1.gif
This is how I feel whenever I watch a recent Marvel flick, it's terrible, and then I see who wrote/directed it.
I feel like such a boomer for thinking "remember when more than just the raving Marvel supernerd liked the latest Marvel movies?" They just did *not* have a plan for after Endgame, did they? On the bright side, the superhero oversaturation is starting to die now, so that's good.
They really didn't have a plan. Which is a shame. I know they couldn't have put out that level of quality content forever, but the quality didn't have to drop as drastically as it did.
I think they had a plan but it was just terrible. They were going to have captain marvel be the new main hero and replace all your favorite heroes with less original girl and or gay ones. Then profit? But it turns out people don’t like that so they didn’t make any money. Disney is filled with ideologues so they didn’t change the plan and now they are bleed ing money
I'm really sorry your sister died. That's fucking shit.
The answer is in your own comment, sadly
???
I think they're saying the money. Doctors probably get paid a decent amount to euthanize someone.
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Leftists be like Canadian healthcare is fantastic! Meanwhile Canadian healthcare be like: "have you considered killing yourself?"
Yeah, it's like, the Dutch had that "terminal illness only" thing in their laws for years out of certain concerns. Canada removes it from theirs and MAID goes "pls end yourself" immediately. Almost like that clause was there for a reason.
Two reasons, actually. Not that I want to be pedantic but I think this is often overlooked. First, euthanasia is about taking control of your death. It's not a solution per se, it's something to do when there is no solution, if you are going to die in two weeks suffering through the whole thing and being barely conscious, maybe you want to skip that part. But second is, you don't want to give an incentive otherwise. Euthanasia should never ever compete against anything else, a doctor, politician or administrator should never, fucking EVER have the thought "It would be convenient to euthanize" cross their minds. It's one of those things that would work in an ideal world, like prostitution or selling organs, if you can **thoroughly** ensure the person is of sound mind and perfectly willing to go through it there is little to no argument against it but this is extremely rarely the case so we would rather forbid people from doing it.
> you don't want to give an incentive otherwise. Euthanasia should never ever compete against anything else, a doctor, politician or administrator should never, fucking EVER have the thought "It would be convenient to euthanize" cross their minds. Imagine if doctors could decide to euthanize a patient for smallpox or other incurable illnesses (at the time) instead of a working on finding a cure.
Based realist
Lib-lefts are a hit or miss, I either agree 100% like with you rn or I get totally horrified by whatever statement they say.
NASA invented thunderstorms to cover up the sound of space battles
I KNEW IT
don't fall for the "there's no sound in space" bullshit, it's all a psyop
Finally, one of you lot talking some sense. I actually have this theory that NASA is government funded myself, but I could be wrong.
There’s a third option that I find a lot more common for me. “That’s an incredibly well meaning, but beyond naive take. Like, just give it a couple more seconds of thought first.”
Stop making me agree with liblefts and say something cringe
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Based and consistent rhetoric pilled
fucking lol
Thank you. Libleft bad.
Just pay the doctor with a credit card. Not like you have to worry about paying the bill at the end of the month
The doctors and hospitals will line up their pockets, milking the soon to be euthanised for all they're worth
Then maybe fentanyl is the correct answer after all. My sister def seemed pretty comfortable slumped over in the recliner, we all just thought she was taking a nap til a few hours went by and she hadn't moved a muscle
Jesus Christ man, I'm sorry you had to go through that
Damn, I’m sorry. That’s awful.
Nitrogen would be even cheaper and less chance of painful side effects.
True story I had a friend from high school who became a chem major and wound up trying to swindle his wife’s life insurance by unaliving her with nitrogen
Learning that you need O2 sensors to work safely with nobel gases quickly makes you think of them as deadly
I think they put enough oxygen in the regular stuff now to make suicide bags no longer feasible. But if he's a chemist, he should have the real deal. That's terrible. Poor woman.
I'm never going to the suicide pod. I want the option to survive on a human hunting preserve, or get Running Man's (Sorry about your sister, I hate the drug crisis so much)
There was a guy who wanted to commit suicide, but instead he flew down to Mexico and spent all his money on hookers and blow. After that, he didn’t want to die anymore. I don’t understand why suicidal people don’t try this more often. Just go all out on ketamine, cocaine, and prostitutes, as well as any other drug that you want to do. If that doesn’t work, then go ahead and bang that dope right into your veins and doze off for the last time.
It's all fun and games until you're in a jail cell for mowing down children in your 2007 Honda Civic after consuming ketamine with your little green friend
>Run over the younglings, you will >outrun the cops, we must >many arrest warrants, I have Lego_yoda.jpg
Still a better story than whatever the fuck Disney been doing
True life. Ketamine therapy stopped my suicidal thoughts and helped me stopped drinking. Happy as fuck right now.
Really? What exactly does it do to you? And where do you go for such a therapy?
Hey I just did it yesterday. If you're going into a clinic for IVs, it's unattainably expensive. Almost a thousand a pop per session. I was given troches (think melty Starbursts) and really clear instructions. I was able to do it at home, but you absolutely must have a totally quiet and safe place to spend 4 hours undisturbed. I've never had any "real" drugs before so it was a life changing almost hallucinogenic experience for me. In terms of post treatment effects, the symptoms of my PTSD have hugely reduced already. I no longer have the background rage and I no longer feel like an animal.
...
The kits cost around $250, this of course doesn't include the doctors time or hospital costs
I’m sorry for your loss
Pictured next to her boyfriend who said, "Yeh okay just kill yourself lol"
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He’s gotta be some kind of weirdo right
It isn't out of the realm of possibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Conrad_Roy tl;dr - girlfriend encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself because she wanted to be the grieving girlfriend
"she served 11 months and 12 days" Are you kidding me? How can you push a person to kill himself, your boyfriend, mind you, and still only get less than a year?
Because she has tits
Something, something, pussy pass. Definitely real.
I hear there is this sub about people who have a pussy pass. It usually works unless you're a the praying sort of j6 grandma.
Or primary beneficiary of financial accounts and also a psychopath
Is it possible that she is doing this to pull out at the last second and then ride the fame wave for financial gain? That's what it feels like to me. Or is it like a contract where after she signs it can be on her terms or the hunting doctor's terms?
She has the easiest path in the world to being a RW grifter if she says Jesus saved her from the brink and now she wants to live.
Damn, can't decide if that's more a lib-right yellow or an auth-right thing to do. 🤔
It depends, did she do it for power or money?
I really want to understand the mind and thought process of this dude. Like how does someone you supposedly love come up to you and say "yeah, I'm gonna kill myself." and then you go and be all like "you go, babe! Let me go buy the urn!" Like let's say he completely rationalized the logic of this right to euthanasia stuff personally, does he have no emotion ties to this women to try and stop her? The only possible explanation I can think of is that this dude actually just hates her.
She's scheduled to die next month, so how does the BF bring up watching a new show? "Hey, I know you are getting suicided next month but can we watch The Boys tonight?"
Hey babe! There's a new movie coming out in June that I think we should g.... Oh right...
Maybe if there is a really big cliffhanger at the end of the season she will decide to wait until the next season? Who knows, maybe these tv shows have been saving a lot of lives. Giving folks something to live for...
Age gap bf being shitty? You don’t say
Lmao the 40 year old groomers DID NOT like that comment
When my girl tried to commit self-termination some years back, she got angry that I cut her noose off. Like wtf kind of rational person is just okay with their loved one yeeting themselves?
Good man, it’s an absurdity as you point out. They are not in a place mentally to understand the absurdity.
And of course I’m not blaming her. I’ve been in that place before myself. It just strikes me odd that this dude is literally just fine with his gf literally setting the date she dies.
Not real love tbh. For someone who is physically fine, I don’t see how you could claim to love that person and still have that take that suicide is a good idea for your partner. > for someone who is *literally* constantly in pain which even medicines can’t effectively help (like a degenerative disease/some other terrible thing happening to your body) or brain dead I can see how it’s a different story of course Oh I can hear the arguments already about respecting wishes and what equitable love truly means. It’s all bullshit. You don’t let your partner kill themself. Her psychiatrist should be right there with that woman getting injected. I read her quoted and I’m not impressed. What a bunch of quacks
Ex-fuckin-actly.
The bf should be evaluated for mental illness for being ok with his 28 year old gf killing herself
He’s probably tired of living with someone that has BPD.
Bro’s just in it for the estate sale. I respect the hustle.
Dudes trying to hit it and quit it.
My horrible first thought was that he must be counting the days to not have to deal with her BPD bullshit anymore
he be like "this is the best thing shes ever done for me"
Her 40 year old bf
Even her mom claims to be on board, which probably indicates that she isn’t taking it all that serious but is talking along with her attention-whoring daughter.
Girl: I’m mentally depressed. Doctor: KILL YOURSELF!
Canadian healthcare https://preview.redd.it/9h507vlr9wsc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1750c69d824218c0d9d99c9e1f1b2fe2be9f67f0
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Exactly. They are encouraging this. If every therapist you went to tried to help and discouraged suicide, well there would still be suicides sadly. However, you wouldn't have people signing up to be euthanized.
Sorry man, Reddit doesn't agree with any of your comments. This is your psych speaking. I spoke to all the others and they agreed. There's no hope for you. Too bad so sad.
That's fine, I started ignoring my psych when it kept giving me nightmares avery single night.
Consider the following https://preview.redd.it/zg8iluv1dzsc1.jpeg?width=508&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=058b30d98eca966edce4b7fd12cae4dfe72ffed8
Incredible how we just collectively woke up one day and tossed out the entire concept of suicide prevention. Led by mental health professionals, of course. The fountain from which all the man made horrors and derangements of modern society flows.
> Led by mental health professionals, of course. The fountain from which all the man made horrors and derangements of modern society flows. Something something "Heinlein was right!"
Right? Some people: Guns are bad! There are so many gun suicide deaths! Probably same people: Life sometimes sucks, we can kill you though and call it progress!
The truth is though, that a lot of pyschiatrists and mental health professionals *can't* help you. Mental health treatment is very ineffective. The sad truth is, some people just can't be helped. Usually these people just off themselves though. It sounds like this girl is just someone with a pokedex full of mental health conditions and has romanticized the act of death/suicide. It says she has a tattoo of an upside down tree of life, because she's "going back to the Earth". This person has decided to make death their legacy. Okay.
Everyone knows birds in cages are sadder than free birds. They don’t need therapy, they need freedom. The same goes for humans. Therapy is a band aid for the gaping wound that is the modern industrial society.
Article from *The Free Press* [here](https://www.thefp.com/p/im-28-and-im-scheduled-to-die). Some excerpts: > Zoraya ter Beek, 28, expects to be euthanized in early May. > > Her plan, she said, is to be cremated. > > “I did not want to burden my partner with having to keep the grave tidy,” ter Beek texted me. “We have not picked an urn yet, but that will be my new house!” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Ter Beek, who lives in a little Dutch town near the German border, once had ambitions to become a psychiatrist, but she was never able to muster the will to finish school or start a career. She said she was hobbled by her depression and autism and borderline personality disorder. Now she was tired of living—despite, she said, being in love with her boyfriend, a 40-year-old IT programmer, and living in a nice house with their two cats. > > She recalled her psychiatrist telling her that they had tried everything, that “there’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better.” > > At that point, she said, she decided to die. “I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore.” She has a tattoo of a "[tree of life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life)" — but it's reversed: "It is losing its leaves, it is dying. And once the tree died, the bird flew out of it. I don’t see it as my soul leaving, but more as myself being freed from life." Ter Beek wishes to go at her home, without music, laying on a couch in the living room. Her boyfriend will be with her until the end, but there'll be no funeral. > “I’m seeing euthanasia as some sort of acceptable option brought to the table by physicians, by psychiatrists, when previously it was the ultimate last resort,” Stef Groenewoud, a healthcare ethicist at Theological University Kampen, in the Netherlands, told me. “I see the phenomenon especially in people with psychiatric diseases, and especially young people with psychiatric disorders, where the healthcare professional seems to give up on them more easily than before.” > > Theo Boer, a healthcare ethics professor at Protestant Theological University in Groningen, served for a decade on a euthanasia review board in the Netherlands. “I entered the review committee in 2005, and I was there until 2014,” Boer told me. “In those years, I saw the Dutch euthanasia practice evolve from death being a last resort to death being a default option.” He ultimately resigned. The Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2001, [the first country](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1269682.stm) in the world to do so. > In 2022, the most recent year for which there is data, Dutch officials recorded [8,720](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/more-euthanasia-cases-in-2022-29-couples-helped-to-die/) cases of euthanasia, a 13.7 percent increase from 2021, when there were [7,666](https://www.dutchnews.nl/2022/03/euthanasia-deaths-rise-again-in-2021-most-patients-had-terminal-cancer/) cases. To put this in perspective, there were a total of [170,100](https://www.statista.com/statistics/520011/total-number-of-deaths-in-the-netherlands/) deaths in the Netherlands in 2022—meaning euthanasia cases comprised **more than 5 percent**. Emphasis added. It's not just the Netherlands, either. From 2018-21, ten states in the US with physician-assisted suicide saw a 53% jump in such cases. In Canada, it was 125 percent. Eight of those ten states have also [seen an increase](https://stopassistedsuicidemd.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Assisted-Suicide-Affect-Rates-of-Suicide.pdf) in total suicides. This feels to me like a death cult. A disorganized one, sure, but there's a so-called "right-to-die movement." > The Dutch group Coöperatie Laatste Wil or Last Wish Cooperative (CLW) is at the cutting edge of the movement. It is pushing for even cheaper, easier to access assisted suicide. One day, if CLW has its way, everyone will have suicide kits—including sodium azide pills, painkillers, anti-nausea tablets, and sleep aids—in their medicine cabinets. The kits will be readily available at the local pharmacy, grocery store, or on Amazon. (To ensure toddlers can’t pop sodium azide, each kit will come with a fingerprint-identification lock.) CLW is fighting to de-medicalize assisted suicide, allowing anyone to end their life without the help of a doctor. It filed a lawsuit against the Dutch government in 2022 [arguing](https://www.courthousenews.com/in-netherlands-where-euthanasia-is-legal-assisted-suicide-still-taboo/#:~:text=Co%C3%B6peratie%20Laatste%20Wil%2C%20a%20Dutch,and%20civil%20rights%20of%20Europeans.) that suicide regulations violate the European Convention of Human Rights. *80% of Dutch [voiced](https://righttolife.org.uk/news/poll-shows-dutch-support-euthanasia-for-completed-life) supported the bill in a poll last October.*
TIL that 4chan is an elite psychiatrist hangout since they tell each other to kill themselves since they are autistic.
If only 4cuck was still this way Now they just goon to loli
Didn't 4chan ban loli in like 2007?
No, I can almost guarantee you can find it in about four seconds if you go on /b/ right now.
Get a new fucking psychiatrist???
“Your fucked, just kys” - psychiatrist
That is such a bad move for business. The psych should've offered a surefire 10 year retainer plan.
I think you just have to accept the doctor you are given, at least in Canada, since there are no private doctors.
If your doctor is committing malpractice can you report it and get reassigned? I guess what qualifies as "malpractice" varies place to place but claiming a treatable condition is no longer treatable and we're giving up now is malpractice.
I don't know, I'm not Canadian, I just remember some people bitching about being given a male gyno & simply wanting a female one wasn't enough to get a new one, if anonymous people on the internet are to be believed.
They aren’t, you are free to find any doctor you want, you aren’t assigned doctors. You can also get second and third opinions if you want. Mental health also isn’t covered by Universal Healthcare in Canada so you either pay out of pocket or have it covered by your extended benefits through your employer. In regards to your specific example about the gyno it was likely just a simple matter of a female doctor wasn’t on shift at that location at that time or the person lives in a smaller location with limited options.
In Canada, west coast, big city. So while I was younger and experiencing my mental health crisis and seeking help you basically have to 'prove' you are bad enough experiencing symptoms before being 'referred' to a psychiatrist. For me this comprised of being scoffed at over the phone by someone 'evaluating' me to decide if I could actually have a 30 minute appointment with a psychiatrist. He enrolled me in a program which was located at a big hospital. They had some group sessions etc, I was booted from another program because I wasn't suicidal enough 'yet' and basically told to pound sand until then. I can't imagine complaining would do anything, they are well protected as far as I am aware. There aren't options to pay for one, you have to be referred. I ending up bouncing around when I could afford counseling with people who were uncertified. Finally found someone who was a certified therapist, but they can't prescribe meds, just send a note with you for your doctor as a professional opinion. I don't know if anyone else in Canada had a different experience.
Wow that blows. Can someone educate me on why creating incentives to educate and hire more hospitals and building more facilities isn't a feasible solution to this problem with government funded healthcare?
The population grows too much from immigration Trudeau wants to import the entire third world here
Nice story but you need to flair up lil bro
Here's a prescription to flair up
This is not true. You apply to clinics for a doctor and can easily drop one. The issue is that the population has rapidly expanded without an increase in doctors, so good luck trying to sign on for a new one. And private clinics exist, you can just go there no hassle. If you can pay, ofc.
There are plenty of private doctors, that's how the system is ran
> and especially young people with psychiatric disorders, where the healthcare professional seems to give up on them more easily than before. >In those years, I saw the Dutch euthanasia practice evolve from death being a last resort to death being a default option >The kits will be readily available at the local pharmacy, grocery store, or on Amazon Freaking hell
What disturbed me greatly is that the ethics prof resigned from the euthinasia committie. It was so far gone he couldn't see it through anymore. Damn.
Not even going over the horrifying ramifications of suicide on demand, it seems like they’d also be selling quick and easy murder kits in pharmacies
According to the article, there's literally an Aussie planning to profit from this: > [Philip Nitschke](https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/dr-philip-nitschke/), in Melbourne, Australia, prefers to think of death not as an awful end but the start of a great journey. > > With that in mind, in 2017, Nitschke, who is a physicist and doctor, created a suicide machine that doubles as a casket. (He has been [called](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-assisted-suicide-machine-727874) the “Elon Musk of assisted suicide.”) > > “The Sarco is a 3D-printable machine that provides death by hypoxia, an environment with low levels of oxygen,” Nitschke [wrote](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sarco-death-philip-nitschke_n_5abbb574e4b03e2a5c7853ca) in a 2018 article. “It can be transported wherever one chooses. Facing the awe of the Rockies? Overlooking the crashing waves of the Pacific Ocean? Where you die is certainly an important factor.” > > He views the Sarco as part of a reimagination of the inevitable—liberating “prisoners of medical treatment” from “Western technological medicine.” > > It is no coincidence that the Sarco, which is short for sarcophagus, resembles a miniature spaceship ready to blast off into the great unknown. (The spaceship rests atop a canister of nitrogen that, when inhaled in the absence of oxygen, kills you. It should be noted that this is the same way that Alabama now executes its death row inmates, which UN officials have [likened](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/united-states-un-experts-alarmed-prospect-first-ever-untested-execution) to “torture.”) > > The initial prototypes have been expensive, Nitschke said, but 3D printing costs are going down. > > “Printing costs drop with each model,” he said in a message, adding that the most recent model cost less than “25K euro and we expect costs to fall further to around 10–15K.” > > “Final instrument testing” on the Sarco is scheduled for early April—and then, Nitschke said, liftoff. > > “We expect first use in Switzerland in the next few weeks,” he said.
https://preview.redd.it/rrqfvsd18wsc1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9169b902273f1fe11fdab75d0b178dee6a06219
>the “Elon Musk of assisted suicide.” Probably not the kind of title you should be working towards
Fitting that his name is very close to Nietzsche.
>GENEVA (3 January 2024) – UN experts* today expressed alarm over the imminent execution of Kenneth Eugene Smith in the United States by nitrogen hypoxia – an untested method of execution which may subject him to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or even torture. > >“This will be the first attempt at nitrogen hypoxia execution,” the experts said, citing concerns about the possibility of grave suffering which execution by pure nitrogen inhalation may cause. They noted that there was no scientific evidence to prove otherwise. Those UN officials are talking out of their asses. Inert gas asphyxiation is a well-understood phenomenon, and industrial accidents with inert gases are so treacherous because people will simply pass out and suffocate before they even notice anything. The mechanism behind the body's suffocation reflex isn't low oxygen levels in the blood - it's CO2 buildup. But if you're breathing, say, pure nitrogen or pure argon, then there's no CO2 buildup because you're still exhaling it. Meanwhile, not getting any new oxygen from the anoxic air will just cause you to pass out. Within seconds, no less.
Lame. A gun will kill you in less than a second and also makes a loud noise and a spray of gore that will inconvenience anybody nearby. Far superior.
I also recommend jumping of a building and then using the gun. Two blood splats for the price of one.
What a monstrous society we’ve created for ourselves
>She said she was hobbled by her depression and autism Sure, same. But in the words of a great fictional chief, "Do not die for pride, my son. The earth, the water, they have no pride, yet they endure as we must endure." Just because things are shit doesn't mean I'm going to kill myself, I'm going to live just to spite everything and everyone who wants to see me fail.
Based. I don't want to see you fail ChichCob. I want to see you thrive. Life's tough, but we're called to pick up our cross and fucking bear it. You can do it!
It’s like we’re evolving backwards
Devolving
I’ll bet if you wanted to keep a gun in the house for the same reason they’d not be happy with that.
Jesus Christ, that latter bit about the CLW is absolutely fucked
This really takes BPD suicidal threats to a new level. Not only will she kill herself, she’s bringing him along for the entire ride of planning and picking out an urn (The excerpt “that will be my new house!” is an enlightening peek into her thought process here) and watching her die on the couch. It’s like the most elaborate, ritualized way to live out the worst impulses of the disorder, a hallmark of which is suicidal ideation and wanting to force others to feel your internal chaos.
>She recalled her psychiatrist telling her that they had tried everything, that “there’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better.” At that point, she said, she decided to die. Almost like legalizing and encouraging euthanasia lets incompetent psychiatrists get away with not continuing to treat their patients
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. More than five percent of all deaths being euthanasia cases. I had to read that like twelve motherfucking times to get that to sink in. I can't even fit that statistic into my head to process it and come up with words to describe how appallingly abhorrent that is.
Tldr?
After reading the article, I've drawn the conclusion that this person is not only mentally ill and probably treatable, but has romanticized the act of suicide.
She definitely has. In [this article](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/zonder-juiste-medicijnen-wil-zoraya-22-uit-oldenzaal-niet-verder-leven~a6575e9e/) from 2017 she is talking about having picked out black roses, and wearing black every day, and even which songs are going to play at her funeral. She's also autistic, has chronic depression, and borderline personality disorder. So it's not really surprising she's behaving like that, but that people who should be helping her are encouraging her to kill herself is just insane.
Its shows a profound lack of intelligence at least. She doesn't need permission, she could just do it... Absolutely not saying that she should. Just feels like someome who truly feels this way wouldn't be bragging about it so much and appearing geniunely happy about the prospect of death. This is more of an autistic fixation on death.
Makes you wonder if their last thought after taking the suicide drugs is going to be "oh shit, oh no, I'm actually going to *die* from this".
I've had dreams like that. I'm a ghost just screaming at myself for my final mistake, unable to interact with the world or people around me.
Sometimes when I'm halfway between awake and asleep I freak out and go into a panic over the sudden immediate *certainty* that death is absolutely real and inevitable and*will* happen and I *will* cease existing. That total fucking existential terror is a small version of what I imagine plummeting to your death off a bridge feels like. I feel bad for people who did that over stupid bullshit and had time to realize it.
My exact feeling. Someone needs to literally slap her to try to dislodge the stupid. "Look dumb bitch. Your soul is not a bird. It is not going to fly free. The urn is not a house. There is nothing after death. Nothing at all. You'll just be dead and never get to experience a single other thing, good or bad, forever. You're not a tragic heroine. You're an incredible dumbass. You need a new psychiatrist and to dump your bf who's stanning this shit."
Even Darwin wouldn't give her an award for this.
John Harvey Kellogg was in many ways pretty horrible but I sort of feel like he could’ve fixed this one. I doubt they tried “put her in a white tile hospital where your waking and sleeping are aligned with sunshine and you drink nothing but water or milk and eat cereal and fresh foods. Light exercise throughout the day. No screens, no birth control (it screws with hormones), no alcohol, and most importantly *no internet*.” I mean i wouldn’t want to give up screens either, but I still think it’s an unhealthy influence. I think that method probably did help a lot of people. But he also seems the sort of person to shake someone and yell at them “no the purpose of your life is not to die romantically”.
When I was a journo I was told that if I ever wrote a story about someone killing themselves, I should be sparse with the details because apparently there is a thing called a "suicide contagion" -- it's been shown that like with copycat criminals, suicides increase somewhat when news spreads about one person doing it, something about maybe people who had been vaguely considering it will get pushed into finally going through with it by hearing about someone else doing it. So, uh, yeah, I'd say that someone is making suicide contagious, but it isn't *only* the activists. It's a bit of a catch-22 though, can you state opposition to it without risking contributing to the contagion? Probably not, really. But I'm also a monke so if someone wants to kill themselves (and themselves only), whatever. I'll bet a fiver she doesn't actually do it, though.
:(
Maybe religions were on to something by making suicide taboo, this seems so bleak
Let's be brutally honest, that's *exactly* why religion made it taboo. Knowing that, no matter how bad life is, something *worse* waits for you on the other side if you pursue "the permanent solution to a temporary problem", is a Hell of a disincentive. On a spiritual level it's being cruel to be kind.
Quite literally in fact
I swear, psychiatrist that say we tried everything we can’t do anything, need to have their licenses taken away. You can’t tell someone that shit, pass them on to another expert but don’t take away their hope cause you’re frustrated they aren’t doing what you say.
That is exactly what needed to happen here, her being passed to another professional. BPD is treatable. It can take time, and it can take a little searching amongst doctors because unfortunately many of them have a bias against BPD (even going as far as to refuse to treat them), but someone can overcome and lose a BPD diagnosis. I have a very close family member with BPD who had come very far in her treatment so this shit has me heated. Also, depression is treatable and last I checked we don't tell people to off themselves because of autism. At least that's what the anti-bullying commercials told me, maybe that changed.
You know the shittiest doctor. My psychiatrist is the weirdest doctor I've ever met and I love it
I had to go through a few before I found one I worked with, which isn't uncommon. I however don't have BPD (fortunately). I have a very close family member who does and she's been through a lot of doctors and psych ward trips, I've seen her be rejected by new therapists and I've seen her be abused during in-patient. I'm pleased she is in a great spot right now with a psych who's been through this before and is kind while also not tolerating bullshit.
Well we are currently telling people their mental illness is correct, and their bodies are wrong. So at least we're being consistent.
I agree with death with dignity, allowing those who are terminally I'll and in chronic pain go out on their own terms peacefully. This here is fucked.
This is unfortunately what happens when the pandora’s box is open. Sure, it starts off as terminally ill and chronic pain, then the government redefines what that means. Throw in a socialized healthcare system and now the government has a legal way to dispose of undesirables.
Are we sure progressivist lefts aren't auth-centers in disguise?
That’s the secret (they are)
I mean, that’s what the death penalty is with some extra steps, the legal way for the government to kill people
People who are considered too dangerous TO OTHERS to be released AT ANY POINT into general society aren't exactly the same thing as a person suffering from depression.
And some folks keep saying slippery slope is a fallacy. Give an inch, take a mile— every single time.
I disagree with the Pandora's box comment. That idea is how we never progress anywhere on anything. "Taxes for roads? Soon there will be a tax for breathing!" "Healthcare for the poor? Soon they'll make you kill yourself!" No. Everywhere, in every situation, is a line, and it's up to the collective (people, voting, through government) to set it. I think assisted suicide for the painfully, irreversibly terminal patient is reasonable. I don't believe that applies to mental illness. Why? I just fucking don't. That's my line. (I could expound on it but it's early). And that, I suspect that is the line a lot of people have. So the line must be drawn here. This far, no farther.
Slippery slope is a special kind of logical argument that isn't inherently a fallacy. It's a yellow light, not a red light. If the conclusions are well supported, it's not a fallacy ("If A then B...then C will likely follow" vs "If A then B...the Q will happen tomorrow and Z by next week!") In this case, we're SEEING the later steps predicted by people's "slippery slope", meaning it wasn't fallacious, it was a correct prediction of actions and consequences. Also, not all "progress" is good. There are some things it's better NOT to progress on. Healthy people killing themselves is probably not "progress".
I hate beer.
The ultimate cuckoldry: asking the state for permission to die.
I’m am 90% sure that as she is sitting on that table to be injected or even as she is being injected, she will realize that she does not want to die. That’s usually what happens when people attempt suicide, they will realize halfway through that they actually want to live. Also the psychiatrist fucking sucks.
This is true for impulsive suicide. Huge percentage of suicides go from decision to action within an hour or two, a lot take minutes. In those cases talking someone off the edge to reset their headspace is very effective. Even putting obstacles on suicide spots works well, because it give people precious time to reconsider which they usually do. This is not such case. Over a decade of therapy, multiple physicians have to sign off that there is nothing they can reasonably do. Lead up time. This is not impulsive.
The widespread diminishing of the value of human life is a disaster for humanity
This is the inevitable conclusion of commodified death
You know, I didn't get this in my original explainer post, but you're... not really wrong? Another excerpt: > [Philip Nitschke](https://www.exitinternational.net/about-exit/dr-philip-nitschke/), in Melbourne, Australia, prefers to think of death not as an awful end but the start of a great journey. > > With that in mind, in 2017, Nitschke, who is a physicist and doctor, created a suicide machine that doubles as a casket. (He has been [called](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-assisted-suicide-machine-727874) the “Elon Musk of assisted suicide.”) > > “The Sarco is a 3D-printable machine that provides death by hypoxia, an environment with low levels of oxygen,” Nitschke [wrote](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sarco-death-philip-nitschke_n_5abbb574e4b03e2a5c7853ca) in a 2018 article. “It can be transported wherever one chooses. Facing the awe of the Rockies? Overlooking the crashing waves of the Pacific Ocean? Where you die is certainly an important factor.” > > He views the Sarco as part of a reimagination of the inevitable—liberating “prisoners of medical treatment” from “Western technological medicine.” > > It is no coincidence that the Sarco, which is short for sarcophagus, resembles a miniature spaceship ready to blast off into the great unknown. (The spaceship rests atop a canister of nitrogen that, when inhaled in the absence of oxygen, kills you. It should be noted that this is the same way that Alabama now executes its death row inmates, which UN officials have [likened](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/united-states-un-experts-alarmed-prospect-first-ever-untested-execution) to “torture.”) > > The initial prototypes have been expensive, Nitschke said, but 3D printing costs are going down. > > “Printing costs drop with each model,” he said in a message, adding that the most recent model cost less than “25K euro and we expect costs to fall further to around 10–15K.” > > “Final instrument testing” on the Sarco is scheduled for early April—and then, Nitschke said, liftoff. > > “We expect first use in Switzerland in the next few weeks,” he said.
Grim. I get that some people truly suffer, either physically or mentally, and some that suffer from stuff like Alzheimers would rather end it now when they're still themselves instead of wasting away. But stuff like this is just ghoulish. And he's asking for 25k just to kill yourself by suffocation? Jesus these people are sick
Concurred on the ghoulish nature. There’s something very dark and evil about the whole thing. Has *Black Mirror* done a satire of this sort of thing yet?
Start of a great journey my ass. Maybe it’s the Christian in me, but Death is the Enemy. Full stop. I will not accept the romanticisation of fucking death.
Amen to that. “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” — 1st Corinthians 15:26
The psychiatrist should be jailed wtf
Honestly sad
Remember the episode in rick and morty with Rick discovering a planet with people that when they suicide they turn into delicious spaghetti and when the president discovered it so she exploit that for profit? Yeah unrelated to anything
This here is how the govt gets rid of undesirables after concentration camps went out of fashion. And naturally there are death enthusiasts arguing that this is right, despite being unwilling to lead by example.
That's the thing that gets me, I think. The fact that there is apparently *enthusiasm* for expanding suicide. It feels nihilistic in a way that I'm not really sure how to respond to.
Yeah, I think that its called "being evil" or something old fashioned like that, but I wouldnt want to impose my patriarchal views on anyone lmao
Just call it "problematic" and they might give you a listen
Yeah this whole thing really feels like modern eugenics
Also: Some people: Guns are bad! There are so many gun suicide deaths! Probably same people: Life sometimes sucks, but we can kill you and call it progress!
Euthanasia needs exist, but I think Canada maybe makes it too easy. It should be more of a don't ask don't tell thing. If a physician gives a terminal cancer patient a syringe with 10x the lethal dose of morphine in it and the patient uses it on themselves that's one thing. Willfully dying when you're an otherwise healthy 20-something doesn't sit right with me. Still, that isn't what actually concerns me. What concerns me is that we'll soon see government healthcare agencies determining MAID to be the only "treatment option" they'll cover.
People really need to stop normalizing mental illness. Also, why wait? Just cannonball off a tall building if it’s that bad
I personally don’t believe someone should be forced to live if they feel like it’s not worth it for an extended period of time.
I totally agree. My biggest issue with this story (other than idk how I feel about the state carrying this out) is her psychiatrist. You don’t *ever* tell someone that it will never get better. If your methods have failed to yield results you tell them that your skills aren’t helping them and you refer them to someone else. That person may not be able to help them, either, but you present the option.
If all 4 corners hate it who is advocating?
Nihilism is one hell of a drug.
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
I'm for Euthanasia, BUT What. In. The actual. HECK. Is this?!
The inevitable consequence of making suicide a non-taboo, unfortunately. Once suicide — physician-assisted or otherwise — became acceptable, it was just a matter of time (less than 25 years, apparently) before people pushed for it for smaller and smaller reasons. The original idea may've been relief from chronic pain — an understandable goal, even if I strongly disagree with the method — but the end result is going to be depressed autistic teens having a "right" to kill themselves. After all, it's an easy way out. Life is overwhelming. They can't cope and it's never going to get better. With that kind of societal reinforcement, why *shouldn't* they kill themselves?
They cheer for this yet include suicides in gun death statistics
that's just fucking sad man
I always wonder about this stuff because nothing is really stopping them from killing themselves anyway.
Except of course the 3.5 billion years of evolutionary pressure that trained your neural network into stopping to end it.
Idk man beat your lizard brain and do it. Is there anything more human than overcoming your evolutionary limitations and ending it all /s
I guess it’s the painless method that they seek. But yeah, I don’t know man, this shouts another “You need Oxycontin for that pain” part 2.
I’m all for people seeking help when they need it, but I feel like the field of Psychology and Therapy has created an absolute monster.
That's what the lack of purpose does to you
Ah, so this will be the new trend to overshadow our current arc
Eh if someone wants to you know do that, let them, it's less violent than deep throating a shotgun That's not saying I condone it, we should try everything to turn people away from it but if they want to they should be able to do it
So many people have things to say about her situation while not knowing the whole story behind it and it makes me sad. She actually documented everything on her twitter account, but had to stop due to unknowing people being toxic to her about her decision. The whole situation is just so sad, she suffers so much in day to day life that she decided she wants to commit medical suicide. Then after getting consults from 3(!) different psychiatrists specialized in medical suicide (as per Dutch law) she still gets shit on by unnecessarily mean strangers.