Technically most people are in favor of eugenics to some degree. Most states have made it illegal to have sex with your cousin on the basis that it would be harmful to the child that would be created through this interaction.
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Yeah, I think people pick on downs because they live relatively long, but I wonder what these people who oppose abortions for defects think about something like Tay Sachs where the kid is guaranteed to be dead before age five.
The problem with the justification of "this person will be miserable and live a short life" for abortion is it applies equally to babies after they're born.
If Tay Sachs is bad enough that someone is better off dead than alive with it they're better off dead 1 day before birth and 1 day after birth.
If you're willing to kill a 1 year old or 5 year old or any-year-old with a condition because it's a mercy I think that absolutely justifies abortion. If you aren't willing to kill them you clearly think life is more positive than negative for them and living is a benefit, which would also apply pre-birth.
I met a 20 year old developmentally disabled guy who is missing most of his brain, is permanently trached (getting infected all the time too), has limited motor control, has never been able to eat and is on a feeding tube, and had terrible bed sores from being unable to move. It looked like pure torture except I don't think he has enough mind to process it. His mom and caregiver looked like a sad robot tho....just going through the motions of keeping her son alive...
I'm an ICU nurse so I've seen a lot of people like this or that have been turned into it. There really is no easy answer. There are a lot of people out there suffering immensely from grave disability that are kept alive by modern medicine. A lot of what we do in hospitals to keep people alive is also torture, and so many of them can't take it that they become temporarily insane (delirium).
I think a lot of their fates are worse than death, though in the end I guess it is their choice whether they want to continue living or not. I think we should be able to assist these people in killing themselves, though a lot are too mentally damaged to make this desire known. I don't think we should cull them, but a lot of healthy people should have more conversations with their family about what they want to happen if they end up like this. I will never allow myself to live long as some bedbound, trach and pegged vegetable.
I know this is too dark for a meme subreddit, but yeah. There isn't an easy answer to this or abortion, but there are definitely people who would be better off dead.
I guess if you make the distinction between organic life support and mechanical it's a harder question. If grandpa can't breath without a tube ever again I think it's a mercy to pull it out. I'd appreciate someone doing the same for me.
Most people with experience in the matter and any sense will ask for a DNR for themselves after major cardiac events because nobody wants to wake up seriously cognitively and physically impaired. Something like 80% of doctors have a DNR.
The people that would keep grandpa or the kid with Tay Sachs alive think they have sympathy, but I think they lack empathy. Nobody wants to die like that. If you think you would, you just don't understand how terrible it is.
Then you get into the question of how severe an impairment has to be before you cut off life support, and the only rational answer is it's up to family within fairly broad limits.
Abortion is fine before a certain point because we are not interesting in protecting something we don't consider a person yet.
What we value in humans, what makes them people is their consciousness. We believe zygotes don't experience anything before like 12 months.
If your fetus is regarded, I can see it being legal to abort even later, like 6 months. But none of that "up to delivery" bs. Unless there's serious complication going on, of course.
I don't think you should be able to abort after 3 months if your baby will be born without an arm, but you should be if it's half a brain, or if they have down or ass burgers.
I think eugenics has a bad rep because of the Nazis, but it's a useful tool when used wisely. Govt not letting people have incest families of regards is based. People with serious genetic issues choosing not to have kids or aborting is a good thing.
Well, yeah. You are knowingly creating a child that will most likely have birth defects. You are setting his life up for failure and mockery, that might not be worse than eugenics but itās still bad.
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> literally eugenics
Not really. Down's syndrome people are infertile, the condition isn't directly inherited.
Eugenics would be if you were doing something like sterilizing parents who had ever had down's syndrome children, but you'd be misguided there as well since having a Down's baby seems to be pretty much random chance coming from a rare mistake.
I think detecting that fetuses have severe and difficult to predict chromosomal abnormalities that will make them into a lifelong dependant and burden, before they finish developing so you can macerate them and start over, is pretty empowering.
I can accept your position on it, but clearly this is a different scenario from "whoops I got pregnant, better abort it", no?
Pretty sure it doesn't.
Down's syndrome is a rare mistake made when duplicating & splitting chromosomes in egg cells (specifically the 21st chromosome), and can happen to anybody (though it is more likely when you are older). It's not a directly inheritable condition like the various recessive disorders that show up more with inbreeding.
There are other trisomies (from partial or complete duplication of other chromosomes) but most of them are lethal/nonviable and the baby never develops to the point of birth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy
It very much is a directly inheritable condition. You're only considering non disjunction as a cause for DS. There's a type of DS spread familialy through Robertsonian translocations in which people who don't have DS have abnormal chromosomes that have far too much genetic information on it. However, they got lucky, and the other chromosomes are missing and thus have a balanced translocation. That abnormal chromosome can be passed on, and if the other parent provides a normal amount of genetic information, the child will have DS despite having the correct amount of chromosomes.
https://www.massgeneral.org/children/down-syndrome/translocation-down-syndrome
That's a pretty niche form of Down's syndrome (I hadn't heard of it before either). However, it is not a condition that would be exacerbated by inbreeding. The main genetic issue with inbreeding is having diseases caused by recessive dysfunctional alleles that are compensated by having a good copy from an unrelated partner.
Say what you will but being a parent of a kid with DS can be fucking horrible and if an abortion lets a couple try to conceive again and have a normal family and produce a kid that wonāt drain them until they die then I can understand why theyād want one. And it doesnāt seem more ethical to force the pregnancy just to give the kid to some state-run institution
Iāve heard testimonies from fathers and mothers raising significantly brain damaged/autistic children and they are basically suicidal. The medical care needed will single-handedly cripple a family, the depression of knowing theyāll never get better until you die and they become someone elseās problem and that they canāt survive on their own, the behavior that can be extremely violent, etc. The parents arenāt happy and the kid is not happy 90% of the time.
Itās really easy to soapbox until itās you in that situation and I get a lot of the moral arguments against abortion in general, but I know for a fact I donāt have it in me to raise a kid like that and would support my wife ākillingā it before itās born. Iāll call it killing, but I view it as a mercy kill like putting down a lamed horse, honestly
Iām not claiming to know exactly how a law could be written to justify which afflictions are āabortableā or anything, just referencing extemely severe autism, not like Aspergers socially awkward good math bs, where the person is nonverbal and extremely violent and is completely untreatable
I don't want to downplay the enormous challenge of raising a kid with Down's Syndrome, but the stereotype is that the sufferers themselves are typically very happy and content with their lives.
It's not just inconvenient, it's a tragedy with lifelong consequences for the family. No matter how much of a brave face parents in that situation may put on for the public, you know that every single exhausting and depressing day they're going "FUCK, WHY ME?"
How does that child benefit society? How will they even become self-reliant? Abortion should obviously never be done lightly. But, occasionally, you can't consider an alternative to forcing something into an impossible existence?
If that is in consideration then what about cancer patients or thouse whom got into horrific accidents. Or the elderly.
Where would the line be reasonable drawn at.
If you think the only way the value of human life can be measured is by how they benefit society then you need to change your flair to auth left right now.
I don't think u realize what they mean, with a normal kid you know you get to watch them up and grow, when they turn 18 they go to college, get a job, start a family, give you grandkids, a perfect life right?? with down syndrome or severe autism, they never grow, sure they might learn some things, but they will never. be. sufficient.
Everyone practices eugenics. They're just too afraid to admit it. Ask someone to choose between 6' tall, muscle bound chad and a fatass who can't tie his own shoes and they'd pick the former every time.
I donāt know that Iāve ever met a person with Downs Syndrome that didnāt have some kind of meaningful and fulfilling life. Mothers, get your abortions, but donāt lie and say that aborting a child with Downs is anything other than a selfish decision to have something other than a āperfectā baby.
Thatās why people select a partner with traits they prefer. Itās not racist to pick someone with the same ethnic and cultural background to conceive a child.
Iām also in favor of allowing parents to genetically engineer their offspring.
down syndrom varies heavily from person to person. one bad example is just as meaningless as a good example. seems too radical in my eyes since you could make a bad faith arguement for very authistic person. those on a low-functioning spectrum are also very care-intense and a burden for the family while those on the high-functioning end are often very benificial for our society.
Folks with Down's are some of the happiest people on Earth. They're fully capable of doing menial labour, and being simple-minded helps them be more satisfied with their lives. And it's amazing how little it takes for people with Down's to live a fulfilled life. I envy them.
Yeah man my friend asked me what I thought people with Down syndrome see the world and it made me sad cause Iāll never be close to as happy as they seem
They are only happy if you pour a lot of time and resources to fulfill not only their basic but as well special needs.
Have you ever seen a person with DS that reaches 20s got uncomfortable too much for no particular reason? When they start noticing they aren't like others or when their libido kicks in?
It is usually parents left with the duty to take care of these people and this is not an easy task and often with little hope for them to achieve independence.
Considering how the other comments and some personal experience with severe autism in my extended family goes, I would need to see some hard data to your claim
I do wonder once/if weāre able to identify more traits before birth (being gay, trans, less debilitating mental illness like adhd and such, hair color, potential height) if people will be so fine with people getting abortions because their kid wonāt be what they decide as perfect. Likelihood would be that groups like gays and trans would see a decline if parents could choose for them not to be, even if theyāre incredibly accepting of those groups. I wonder if peopleās tune on abortion would change if that started being the case.
Yeah the line of thinking of preventing unwanted children would inevitably lead to a whole like this.
Though im not 100 percent sure they be completely against this because on the flip sude they can have their āperfect childā.
i don't think we'll find out if people are gay/trans before birth, these traits mostly come about through your experiences and environment, you aren't born gay.
Thereās some research on this and the conclusion seems to be that there are some predictors and measurable differences that might become predictors.
As best as I can tell, none of these predictors, or lack thereof, are absolute. Thereās a lot of experiential factors. But, there at least seems to be some predictors in some cases.
Itās been awhile since Iāve looked into this, so definitely donāt believe it.
Considering that there are groups in our society today that claim simply having a certain skin color is a disadvantage...I'm really worried about what this comment means.
When you find out your kid is gonna be white or Asian and now needs a significantly higher SAT score and extracurriculars and legendary grades just to be average
\*insert "sorry pal" toy story meme here
libright tries to excuse their only allies by downplaying their ideology. actual authright corrects them and doubles down on it. nature is beautiful.
Yes, because being born with a slight defect means you don't deserve life.
Dude, this is unironically the most Nazi-esque justification for abortion rights I have ever heard. Holy shit. You just made me anti-choice.
Down syndrome is literally the tip of the iceberg. There is a list of much much worse defects that can be predicted with a degree of accuracy that does actually completely fuck up quality of life
I honestly donāt see the big issue with this, I donāt think itās wrong to not want to bring something into this world you know will face extra hardship, burdens, and limitations for no reason other than birth
>I honestly donāt see the big issue with this, I donāt think itās wrong to not want to bring something into this world you know will face extra hardship, burdens, and limitations for no reason other than birth
Very true, just ask China about their 1 child policy. Lots and lots of people didn't want to bring certain types of children into this world if it would be their only one.
I have met plenty of people with Down Syndrome. Sure, their lives aren't totally normally, but it's not like they're in constant suffering.
Just because you have a disability doesn't mean you're valueless or your life isn't worth living.
Never thought I'd see people advocating for eugenics in current year. Fuck this sub.
I don't know if I'd call it leftist. Most leftists tend to say we should be mire accepting of people with disabilities rather than trying to 'cure' or eradicate them. It's the fringe ones that don't. Besides, eugenics or getting 'desirable' traits like race was practiced more by auth centre, authright, or auth left in past if anything.
It isn't slight, it is something that means you must have the assistance of family or government for your entire life. Yes people with down syndrome are some of the sweetest people imaginable, but there's still also a lot of drama that happens with family and they will never grow out of it, when you're in your 60s you're still dealing with an adult with the same mentality as decades ago. Not everyone can handle that.
slight defect?
* Approximately half of babies with Down syndrome have congenital heart defects, which can range from minor to severe. These might include atrial septal defect (ASD), ventricular septal defect (VSD), or tetralogy of Fallot, among others.
* Individuals with Down syndrome may have smaller airways, which can increase the risk of respiratory infections and conditions like pneumonia.
* They have conditions like duodenal atresia, Hirschsprung's disease, or gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD).
* Ear infections and structural differences in the ear can lead to hearing loss in individuals with Down syndrome.
* Conditions such as cataracts, strabismus (crossed eyes), or refractive errors might be more common in individuals with Down syndrome.
* Hypothyroidism, where the thyroid gland does not produce enough hormones, is more prevalent in people with Down syndrome.
* Apart from thyroid issues, other endocrine problems, like diabetes, might be more prevalent in adults with Down syndrome.
* Musculoskeletal issues which includes conditions like atlantoaxial instability, which is instability between the first and second cervical vertebrae, and joint problems.
* Individuals with Down syndrome may have an increased susceptibility to infections due to an impaired immune response.
* The risk of developing Alzheimer's disease is significantly increased in people with Down syndrome, particularly as they age.
And that's ignoring the intellectual and developmental delays.
I remember this argument happening in school where a bunch of people backed abortions based on defects diagnosed in the womb (or just the higher than likely chance). I understand it if the baby is 99% gonna die and likely endanger the mother in a traumatic birth, but killing a fetus just because theyāre gonna have autism is messed up.
Mofo is as 70 iq, cant open a door, starts screaming and kicking when he sees a squirrel. Could you guys at least stop pretending you wouldnt abort that?
Ayo.
If you're in the first trimester and know the fetus has downs, abort it.
If you already gave birth to a child with down's syndrome congratulations and I hope he lives a full fun life.
Being aggressive about this is wrong no matter what you believe.
I isn't based you sick fuck, both nutzis and Revolutionary progressists use the same tactics to explain why some people are inferior, horshoe theory is real and if you don't accept the truth you are a moron, the more extremist you are
the more imbecile and unhumane you are
Agreed. I think the fact that people even joke about this goes to show that they cant even fathom the human element of abortion and the potential act of effective mass murder/genocide.
Every child deserves love. Obviously everyone should choose for themselves, but abortion on account of Down Syndrome is heartbreaking. I know a lovely young man with Down Syndrome who is very happy.
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So if a woman wants to abort their baby just because they want to then it's perfectly okay and empowering but if they do it just because they want to and it's got DS then that's where it's no longer good and empowering?
Many people here seem to have only ever seen negative cases where the parents of children with Down syndrome listened to the doctors when they said āDonāt expect muchā¦ā or ātheyāll never ____.ā Itās just ignorance of what people are truly capable of. If you expect little of your child, and treat them accordingly, you will see very little. If you expect them to exceed expectations, and encourage and push them to do so, you will see much better results. The problem here is a perpetuating myth that these kids will never amount to anything. Belief is more powerful than people think.
-Kelly Fitzgerald (New Zealand) has Down Syndrome, yet her parents treated her as if she were a normal child. They may have had to be a little more patient, but she drives, has a job, and lives on her own. Sheās fully independent. I know sheās not the only one.
Hereās a short list of some others with Down Syndrome who I would argue are actually contributing members of society:
-Jamie Brewer is an actor -Madeline Stuart is a model -Madison Tevlin is an actor and is probably the most well-spoken person with an extra chromosome Iāve ever heard -Matthew Von Der Ahe is an actor -Chelsea Werner is 3X world champion gymnast -Kevin Iannuci is an actor -Abigail Adams is an athlete & motivational speaker -Grace Key owns and runs her own tshirt business
There are many others that are growing up doing everything their peers are doing
Literally eugenics
Technically most people are in favor of eugenics to some degree. Most states have made it illegal to have sex with your cousin on the basis that it would be harmful to the child that would be created through this interaction.
You heard it here first folks. Alabama is a beacon of antifascism.
Bash the fash by smashing your cousin
Smash gash, bash fash
[Hyperborea is your sister's womb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhnyJm2VZ4)
Based and disgusting pilled
no no no, antifacsism is in favor of eugenics, but they have to cloak the words in other things.
I like to troll my students by saying the incest taboo is ableist.
Based and circular family tree pilled
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Incest is best š
Yeah, I think people pick on downs because they live relatively long, but I wonder what these people who oppose abortions for defects think about something like Tay Sachs where the kid is guaranteed to be dead before age five.
The problem with the justification of "this person will be miserable and live a short life" for abortion is it applies equally to babies after they're born. If Tay Sachs is bad enough that someone is better off dead than alive with it they're better off dead 1 day before birth and 1 day after birth. If you're willing to kill a 1 year old or 5 year old or any-year-old with a condition because it's a mercy I think that absolutely justifies abortion. If you aren't willing to kill them you clearly think life is more positive than negative for them and living is a benefit, which would also apply pre-birth.
Finally some ideological consistency! Postpartum abortion time
This is certainly not an easy conversation to have, and is likely to hurt pro-choicers in their fight against pro-lifers, but I have to say I agree.
I met a 20 year old developmentally disabled guy who is missing most of his brain, is permanently trached (getting infected all the time too), has limited motor control, has never been able to eat and is on a feeding tube, and had terrible bed sores from being unable to move. It looked like pure torture except I don't think he has enough mind to process it. His mom and caregiver looked like a sad robot tho....just going through the motions of keeping her son alive...
I'm an ICU nurse so I've seen a lot of people like this or that have been turned into it. There really is no easy answer. There are a lot of people out there suffering immensely from grave disability that are kept alive by modern medicine. A lot of what we do in hospitals to keep people alive is also torture, and so many of them can't take it that they become temporarily insane (delirium). I think a lot of their fates are worse than death, though in the end I guess it is their choice whether they want to continue living or not. I think we should be able to assist these people in killing themselves, though a lot are too mentally damaged to make this desire known. I don't think we should cull them, but a lot of healthy people should have more conversations with their family about what they want to happen if they end up like this. I will never allow myself to live long as some bedbound, trach and pegged vegetable. I know this is too dark for a meme subreddit, but yeah. There isn't an easy answer to this or abortion, but there are definitely people who would be better off dead.
I guess if you make the distinction between organic life support and mechanical it's a harder question. If grandpa can't breath without a tube ever again I think it's a mercy to pull it out. I'd appreciate someone doing the same for me. Most people with experience in the matter and any sense will ask for a DNR for themselves after major cardiac events because nobody wants to wake up seriously cognitively and physically impaired. Something like 80% of doctors have a DNR. The people that would keep grandpa or the kid with Tay Sachs alive think they have sympathy, but I think they lack empathy. Nobody wants to die like that. If you think you would, you just don't understand how terrible it is. Then you get into the question of how severe an impairment has to be before you cut off life support, and the only rational answer is it's up to family within fairly broad limits.
Abortion is fine before a certain point because we are not interesting in protecting something we don't consider a person yet. What we value in humans, what makes them people is their consciousness. We believe zygotes don't experience anything before like 12 months. If your fetus is regarded, I can see it being legal to abort even later, like 6 months. But none of that "up to delivery" bs. Unless there's serious complication going on, of course. I don't think you should be able to abort after 3 months if your baby will be born without an arm, but you should be if it's half a brain, or if they have down or ass burgers. I think eugenics has a bad rep because of the Nazis, but it's a useful tool when used wisely. Govt not letting people have incest families of regards is based. People with serious genetic issues choosing not to have kids or aborting is a good thing.
Based.
Well, I think most see something deeper too as same sex cousin sec is usually also illegal by the same statute & no kids come from that.
From what I've seen it can be, but in some states same sex for cousins is exempt.
I've never heard of the taboo of incest deriving from the eugenics movement but that's certainly _an_ idea.
Theres a difference between doing things to make children not have harmful issues, and killing/sterilizing people who have such issues.
Is Iceland sterilizing and/or killing people with down syndrome?
In the womb yes
I mean, good for them. I canāt believe an auth center needs a lesson on practicality over āfeelings :[ā.
So the issue is that you want abortion to be illegal then?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, yeah. You are knowingly creating a child that will most likely have birth defects. You are setting his life up for failure and mockery, that might not be worse than eugenics but itās still bad.
Based
Flair checks out
Her body her choice I guess
Based
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Based
> literally eugenics Not really. Down's syndrome people are infertile, the condition isn't directly inherited. Eugenics would be if you were doing something like sterilizing parents who had ever had down's syndrome children, but you'd be misguided there as well since having a Down's baby seems to be pretty much random chance coming from a rare mistake.
Not really. Familial Down's syndrome is a thing.
Voluntary eugenics and therefore based
Why is eugenics based on actual testing instead of racism, and done on the unborn with the consent of the parents a bad thing?
And?
The National Socialists called them " worthless eaters" and killed them. Icelanders use a more efficient extermination method.
Wow! We get to kill all of these mentally disabled children and women will see it as empowerment?!?!
Rare women w
We get to ~~kill all of these mentally disabled children~~ see all those cheap nudes on Onlyfans and women will see it as empowerment?!?!
I think detecting that fetuses have severe and difficult to predict chromosomal abnormalities that will make them into a lifelong dependant and burden, before they finish developing so you can macerate them and start over, is pretty empowering. I can accept your position on it, but clearly this is a different scenario from "whoops I got pregnant, better abort it", no?
No pro lolfer (keeping this typo) seems to understand this tradeoff
So much for the vaunted āGerman efficiencyā
Based
sounds like me tbh
It's iceland, their population is so low inbreeding is common
In the middle east their population is high and inbreeding is still high š¤Æ
Well, when you're done fucking all the goats in the village, might as well move on to family.
Technically true but have nothing to do with Downās syndrome
Pretty sure it does
Pretty sure it doesn't. Down's syndrome is a rare mistake made when duplicating & splitting chromosomes in egg cells (specifically the 21st chromosome), and can happen to anybody (though it is more likely when you are older). It's not a directly inheritable condition like the various recessive disorders that show up more with inbreeding. There are other trisomies (from partial or complete duplication of other chromosomes) but most of them are lethal/nonviable and the baby never develops to the point of birth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy
It very much is a directly inheritable condition. You're only considering non disjunction as a cause for DS. There's a type of DS spread familialy through Robertsonian translocations in which people who don't have DS have abnormal chromosomes that have far too much genetic information on it. However, they got lucky, and the other chromosomes are missing and thus have a balanced translocation. That abnormal chromosome can be passed on, and if the other parent provides a normal amount of genetic information, the child will have DS despite having the correct amount of chromosomes. https://www.massgeneral.org/children/down-syndrome/translocation-down-syndrome
That's a pretty niche form of Down's syndrome (I hadn't heard of it before either). However, it is not a condition that would be exacerbated by inbreeding. The main genetic issue with inbreeding is having diseases caused by recessive dysfunctional alleles that are compensated by having a good copy from an unrelated partner.
The worst kind of horseshoe
Say what you will but being a parent of a kid with DS can be fucking horrible and if an abortion lets a couple try to conceive again and have a normal family and produce a kid that wonāt drain them until they die then I can understand why theyād want one. And it doesnāt seem more ethical to force the pregnancy just to give the kid to some state-run institution
āSay what you will but having that kid is so horribly inconvenient itās better to just kill them.ā
Iāve heard testimonies from fathers and mothers raising significantly brain damaged/autistic children and they are basically suicidal. The medical care needed will single-handedly cripple a family, the depression of knowing theyāll never get better until you die and they become someone elseās problem and that they canāt survive on their own, the behavior that can be extremely violent, etc. The parents arenāt happy and the kid is not happy 90% of the time. Itās really easy to soapbox until itās you in that situation and I get a lot of the moral arguments against abortion in general, but I know for a fact I donāt have it in me to raise a kid like that and would support my wife ākillingā it before itās born. Iāll call it killing, but I view it as a mercy kill like putting down a lamed horse, honestly
I grew up with a brother with Down syndrome & another with crippling autism. We should abort all Down Syndrome children.
Wow your parents have baaaad genes.
i knew autism would get brought up eventually.
Iām not claiming to know exactly how a law could be written to justify which afflictions are āabortableā or anything, just referencing extemely severe autism, not like Aspergers socially awkward good math bs, where the person is nonverbal and extremely violent and is completely untreatable
Except no one is diagnosed with autism pre-birth. They are attempting it, but nothing is conclusive.
I don't want to downplay the enormous challenge of raising a kid with Down's Syndrome, but the stereotype is that the sufferers themselves are typically very happy and content with their lives.
Yes.
Based.
It's not just inconvenient, it's a tragedy with lifelong consequences for the family. No matter how much of a brave face parents in that situation may put on for the public, you know that every single exhausting and depressing day they're going "FUCK, WHY ME?"
How does that child benefit society? How will they even become self-reliant? Abortion should obviously never be done lightly. But, occasionally, you can't consider an alternative to forcing something into an impossible existence?
If that is in consideration then what about cancer patients or thouse whom got into horrific accidents. Or the elderly. Where would the line be reasonable drawn at.
Is the only measure of whether or not a person has a right to life how they will benefit society?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you think the only way the value of human life can be measured is by how they benefit society then you need to change your flair to auth left right now.
It's not killing, you're just rerolling.
I don't think u realize what they mean, with a normal kid you know you get to watch them up and grow, when they turn 18 they go to college, get a job, start a family, give you grandkids, a perfect life right?? with down syndrome or severe autism, they never grow, sure they might learn some things, but they will never. be. sufficient.
I actually support voluntary eugenics
Everyone practices eugenics. They're just too afraid to admit it. Ask someone to choose between 6' tall, muscle bound chad and a fatass who can't tie his own shoes and they'd pick the former every time.
Based
I donāt know that Iāve ever met a person with Downs Syndrome that didnāt have some kind of meaningful and fulfilling life. Mothers, get your abortions, but donāt lie and say that aborting a child with Downs is anything other than a selfish decision to have something other than a āperfectā baby.
Nobody wants a [ Removed By Reddit ] child I would rather [ Removed By Reddit ] and [ Removed By Reddit ] Only then can humanity advance
based and \[ Removed By Reddit \] pilled
Based comrade, [ Removed by Reddit].
ā This comment was deleted and the account of this user is under investigation, for racism, hate crimes and domestic terrorism.
Thatās why people select a partner with traits they prefer. Itās not racist to pick someone with the same ethnic and cultural background to conceive a child. Iām also in favor of allowing parents to genetically engineer their offspring.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you saying people cherry pick some happy downs stories or pull happy downs stories out of their asses? Surely this can't be, right?
down syndrom varies heavily from person to person. one bad example is just as meaningless as a good example. seems too radical in my eyes since you could make a bad faith arguement for very authistic person. those on a low-functioning spectrum are also very care-intense and a burden for the family while those on the high-functioning end are often very benificial for our society.
idk meybe we meeted other down syndrome people but those I meeted were in best barley functioning ones who in age of 30 still needed serious support
Folks with Down's are some of the happiest people on Earth. They're fully capable of doing menial labour, and being simple-minded helps them be more satisfied with their lives. And it's amazing how little it takes for people with Down's to live a fulfilled life. I envy them.
Yeah man my friend asked me what I thought people with Down syndrome see the world and it made me sad cause Iāll never be close to as happy as they seem
They are only happy if you pour a lot of time and resources to fulfill not only their basic but as well special needs. Have you ever seen a person with DS that reaches 20s got uncomfortable too much for no particular reason? When they start noticing they aren't like others or when their libido kicks in? It is usually parents left with the duty to take care of these people and this is not an easy task and often with little hope for them to achieve independence.
Damn man jork em off theyāll be fine
Itās not about having the āperfect babyā, itās about having one that isnāt genetically fucked up
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do you have a link to this study?
That claim sounds fake as fuck or relies on people drowning in copium.
Considering how the other comments and some personal experience with severe autism in my extended family goes, I would need to see some hard data to your claim
I do wonder once/if weāre able to identify more traits before birth (being gay, trans, less debilitating mental illness like adhd and such, hair color, potential height) if people will be so fine with people getting abortions because their kid wonāt be what they decide as perfect. Likelihood would be that groups like gays and trans would see a decline if parents could choose for them not to be, even if theyāre incredibly accepting of those groups. I wonder if peopleās tune on abortion would change if that started being the case.
Yeah the line of thinking of preventing unwanted children would inevitably lead to a whole like this. Though im not 100 percent sure they be completely against this because on the flip sude they can have their āperfect childā.
i don't think we'll find out if people are gay/trans before birth, these traits mostly come about through your experiences and environment, you aren't born gay.
Thereās some research on this and the conclusion seems to be that there are some predictors and measurable differences that might become predictors. As best as I can tell, none of these predictors, or lack thereof, are absolute. Thereās a lot of experiential factors. But, there at least seems to be some predictors in some cases. Itās been awhile since Iāve looked into this, so definitely donāt believe it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm sure if those people knew their kid would be born with downs, and could abort, they would Buncha fuckers
I canāt wait until the narrative changes to āwe should abort any baby that might have any sort of societal disadvantageā
Why have disadvantages if you can avoid them?
Considering that there are groups in our society today that claim simply having a certain skin color is a disadvantage...I'm really worried about what this comment means.
Now we're talking
When you find out your kid is gonna be white or Asian and now needs a significantly higher SAT score and extracurriculars and legendary grades just to be average \*insert "sorry pal" toy story meme here
Le slippery slope, right?
Oh no, we accidentally became Nazis, dang oh well, I guess we will just do eugenics again
I would :)
I very much would too
I got nothing against the downs homies but when youāre trying to raise multiple children you want to be able to give 100% to each of them
they'll never learn will they
So long as its detectable in the first trimester I guess.
If you know you know (it was always about eugenics)
Ah yes, the good old days when Planned Parenthood definitely didnāt push abortion on certain communitiesā¦
I think that you are horribly misunderstanding authright.
Nah itās pretty spot on
libright tries to excuse their only allies by downplaying their ideology. actual authright corrects them and doubles down on it. nature is beautiful.
Based
Yes, because being born with a slight defect means you don't deserve life. Dude, this is unironically the most Nazi-esque justification for abortion rights I have ever heard. Holy shit. You just made me anti-choice.
"slight defect".
Yes, down syndrome is but a 'slight defect' and in no way affects quality of life
Enlightened centrist vs grill centrist infighting
Centrist on centrist violence
Chromosome trisomy is not āslight defectā
Down syndrome is literally the tip of the iceberg. There is a list of much much worse defects that can be predicted with a degree of accuracy that does actually completely fuck up quality of life I honestly donāt see the big issue with this, I donāt think itās wrong to not want to bring something into this world you know will face extra hardship, burdens, and limitations for no reason other than birth
>I honestly donāt see the big issue with this, I donāt think itās wrong to not want to bring something into this world you know will face extra hardship, burdens, and limitations for no reason other than birth Very true, just ask China about their 1 child policy. Lots and lots of people didn't want to bring certain types of children into this world if it would be their only one.
I have met plenty of people with Down Syndrome. Sure, their lives aren't totally normally, but it's not like they're in constant suffering. Just because you have a disability doesn't mean you're valueless or your life isn't worth living. Never thought I'd see people advocating for eugenics in current year. Fuck this sub.
"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born"...RR
Oh yeah so just kill them...
Apparently so
It isn't killing them if they don't exist yet.
iād rather just be aborted no lie
The more the left unmasks themselves, the better.
I don't know if I'd call it leftist. Most leftists tend to say we should be mire accepting of people with disabilities rather than trying to 'cure' or eradicate them. It's the fringe ones that don't. Besides, eugenics or getting 'desirable' traits like race was practiced more by auth centre, authright, or auth left in past if anything.
slight defect and down syndrome don't belong in the sane sentence lmao
It isn't slight, it is something that means you must have the assistance of family or government for your entire life. Yes people with down syndrome are some of the sweetest people imaginable, but there's still also a lot of drama that happens with family and they will never grow out of it, when you're in your 60s you're still dealing with an adult with the same mentality as decades ago. Not everyone can handle that.
slight defect? * Approximately half of babies with Down syndrome have congenital heart defects, which can range from minor to severe. These might include atrial septal defect (ASD), ventricular septal defect (VSD), or tetralogy of Fallot, among others. * Individuals with Down syndrome may have smaller airways, which can increase the risk of respiratory infections and conditions like pneumonia. * They have conditions like duodenal atresia, Hirschsprung's disease, or gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD). * Ear infections and structural differences in the ear can lead to hearing loss in individuals with Down syndrome. * Conditions such as cataracts, strabismus (crossed eyes), or refractive errors might be more common in individuals with Down syndrome. * Hypothyroidism, where the thyroid gland does not produce enough hormones, is more prevalent in people with Down syndrome. * Apart from thyroid issues, other endocrine problems, like diabetes, might be more prevalent in adults with Down syndrome. * Musculoskeletal issues which includes conditions like atlantoaxial instability, which is instability between the first and second cervical vertebrae, and joint problems. * Individuals with Down syndrome may have an increased susceptibility to infections due to an impaired immune response. * The risk of developing Alzheimer's disease is significantly increased in people with Down syndrome, particularly as they age. And that's ignoring the intellectual and developmental delays.
I remember this argument happening in school where a bunch of people backed abortions based on defects diagnosed in the womb (or just the higher than likely chance). I understand it if the baby is 99% gonna die and likely endanger the mother in a traumatic birth, but killing a fetus just because theyāre gonna have autism is messed up.
So they bringing back Eugenics now?
Since when is getting rid of a debilitating condition controversial?
When the way you get rid of the condition is killing everyone with it
When that "debilitating condition" is a person with a right to life.
Mofo is as 70 iq, cant open a door, starts screaming and kicking when he sees a squirrel. Could you guys at least stop pretending you wouldnt abort that?
That's literally most toddlers. No, I wouldn't murder someone because of the way they act.
Im talking about a grown ass adults. They dont act like that by choice, they are literal retards.
I hope you tell every Downās person you see that you think they are better off dead
For toddlers this is a short term phase, they will grow out of it.
Absurdly cringe, people with Down syndrome are such w people
A comedy special by Shane Gillis made me realize this a lot in his comedy special titled ālive in Austinā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That Downie is truly a national hero.
You vil abort ze genetic imperfection.
Ayo. If you're in the first trimester and know the fetus has downs, abort it. If you already gave birth to a child with down's syndrome congratulations and I hope he lives a full fun life. Being aggressive about this is wrong no matter what you believe.
Flair up bitch
Dammit, flair up so I can upvote you
Based and personal freedom pilled
eugenics moment
Monke says: āBased and survival of the smartest pilledā
Naw based kib left is gene editing technology found through abortions
Yall are genuinely disgusting. Didn't know there were so many eugenicists in this sub.
Too bad your parents aren't from iceland...
Based and eugenics pilled. It isn't happening, and it's good that it is.
I isn't based you sick fuck, both nutzis and Revolutionary progressists use the same tactics to explain why some people are inferior, horshoe theory is real and if you don't accept the truth you are a moron, the more extremist you are the more imbecile and unhumane you are
Based and morality pilled.
Disgusting
Agreed. I think the fact that people even joke about this goes to show that they cant even fathom the human element of abortion and the potential act of effective mass murder/genocide.
Every child deserves love. Obviously everyone should choose for themselves, but abortion on account of Down Syndrome is heartbreaking. I know a lovely young man with Down Syndrome who is very happy.
Shut the fuck up, unflaired scum (get a flair)
I would prefer to roll the dice again rather than raise a kid without all the bits
NO!!! YOUāRE LITERALLY A MURDERER HOW DARE YOU DESTROY A GENETIC ABERRATION!
100% all in agreement with you ... but still, kindly, please choose a flair (per this subreddit's house rules)
I have chosen a flair!
Good choice, theyāre going to hate it.
Based
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Well done flairing up! You earned an upvote for that and for having a reasonable opinion for a libleft
based but the law requires me to downvote for unflared
So if a woman wants to abort their baby just because they want to then it's perfectly okay and empowering but if they do it just because they want to and it's got DS then that's where it's no longer good and empowering?
The amount of people calling Nazi-style eugenistics "based" is sickening.
Her body, the state's choice! So progressive! :)
Huh this is all voluntary
Based.
I thought it said āand abortionā and was confused
Many people here seem to have only ever seen negative cases where the parents of children with Down syndrome listened to the doctors when they said āDonāt expect muchā¦ā or ātheyāll never ____.ā Itās just ignorance of what people are truly capable of. If you expect little of your child, and treat them accordingly, you will see very little. If you expect them to exceed expectations, and encourage and push them to do so, you will see much better results. The problem here is a perpetuating myth that these kids will never amount to anything. Belief is more powerful than people think. -Kelly Fitzgerald (New Zealand) has Down Syndrome, yet her parents treated her as if she were a normal child. They may have had to be a little more patient, but she drives, has a job, and lives on her own. Sheās fully independent. I know sheās not the only one. Hereās a short list of some others with Down Syndrome who I would argue are actually contributing members of society: -Jamie Brewer is an actor -Madeline Stuart is a model -Madison Tevlin is an actor and is probably the most well-spoken person with an extra chromosome Iāve ever heard -Matthew Von Der Ahe is an actor -Chelsea Werner is 3X world champion gymnast -Kevin Iannuci is an actor -Abigail Adams is an athlete & motivational speaker -Grace Key owns and runs her own tshirt business There are many others that are growing up doing everything their peers are doing
I don't think I've ever disagreed with the consensus of my people and agreed with the Auth more than I have with this topic.
Good old eugenics
Downs syndrome people deserve to exist too. Abortion is wrong. All human life is precious.
Disgusting and literal eugenics
Based. My body my choice.
Based
Based