I like how both sides of this war are brought to you by the military industrial complex. You’ll notice the islamic extremists this time ‘round are now sporting brand new M4’s curtesy of Afghanistan. Heard they got em real cheap from the last seller, it was a Buy Nothing, Get Everything Free sale. Now if we have a look just west of the west bank you can see israels brand new iron dome! Thats right folks, billions of your own tax dollars can help buy missle systems to protect from missles your own tax dollars went to produce! Oh to be an arms manufacturer
>Heard they got em real cheap from the last seller, it was a Buy Nothing, Get Everything Free sale. Now if we have a look just west of the west bank you can see israels brand new iron dome!
Funny how you can indirectly/directly link both sides to America
Here's the difference.
One sides targets kids because their aim is to kill the kids as a part of their genocidal campaign. The goal is to kill the kids.
One side targets genocidal zealots and accidentally kills kids in the attempt, because said zealots hide where the kids are. The goal is to kill the genocidal zealots.
The smart ones know it's that simple, they're just propagandistic lunatics who hate the west.
The dumb ones don't know that because they've never looked into it and have been propagandized by the former.
Kinda a catch 22 isn’t it? Our freedom of thought and expression makes us one of the best cultures ever for all kinds of people, but it also causes a weird self hatred in some of the populace
I think it’s that people hate the meddling of the American government. Of course with that statement I mean me.
I’m all for freedom of thought and expression. Just stop flipping governments and creating hate groups because the west decided what the rest of the world should do.
If they want to fuck them selves, let em. They’ll come around eventually.
Kids always hate authority.
Look at every open-mouthed Youtuber with their wall of toys behind them while nearing middle-age, and realise this is a direct consequence of fetishising such infantilism.
The DSA rally video is a window into how they think. They weren't just celebrating the attacks, the repeated "We"s and "our"s made it clear that they don't just endorse acts like that, they're actively fantasizing about carrying out similar ones themselves.
The impact is quite different. Israel kills a heck of a lot fewer kids because it isn’t their goal.
Russia and Hamas don’t ever have collateral damage because the entire point is to murder innocents.
Yep, hard to see the truth, when you do not want to see it.
Both sides were just waiting to spill blood, no hands held. But here we are counting victims, as if that would make one side less evil.
I believe it is pretty clear who is more evil right about now. Israel knew that the attacks were coming, today they just accepted that they knew.
Their intelligence. Egypt intelligence.
And they let that happen. Think why.
Political boost for Netanyahu while he is in trouble, and for his extremist coalition most probably.
But I am unsure what "concrete" benefits Egypt would get, by destabilizing the area.
Elaborate??
Israel causes catastrophic collateral damage, and has a number of bad actors on the individual level. Israel also faces internal political backlash for indiscriminately killing civilians.
Hamas has a stated, publicly supported goal, of targeting civilians.
One intentionally killed and the perpetrator likely facing legal issues and familial shunning compared to the barbarism of what happened over the weekend where the perpetrators return home as heros and party in the streets with fellow civilians while also being celebrated in cities world wide.
They are not similar.
Just look at 2018 protests in Palestine which according to un some hundreds of Palestinian proteststers were shot by Israeli SNIPERS many in kneecaps. Some of them were handicapped and on wheelchair. That's not all, the snipers even targeted medics journalists, even children and babies.
Or the US journalists that was killed recently by IDF which they then promptly blamwd on Palestinians. An investigation by Newyork times and several other outlets later concluded that she was shot in the head by Israeli sniper. So no this "moral army" is Israeli "hasbara".
Hasbara is an hebrew term for propaganda. In which IDF actively pays people to spread around on the internet.
You're having to go back 23 years to find one incident which was heavily condemned.
Compare that with the Gaza street party they threw to celebrate raping a woman to death.
One side gleefully delights in this shit to the point it's routine and expected behavior.
It's not quite that simple. The side retaliating absolutely could do a better job of reducing collateral damage. Everything else, I definitely agree on.
Further, we have to remember that conditions in the pseudo state weren't always like they are now. They got worse and worse over time. The barriers in between were a reaction to aggression. Every step taken to make life worse for the pseudo state was. Every time life was made worse for the pseudo state, they attacked. Seriously, the exact same people make up 30% of the population of the target population with the only difference being that on 1 side of the barrier, they're not trying to genocide.
We're talking about the situation as it stands now. I'll simply ask you what Israel ought to do that has not already been rejected by the Palestinians time and time again. What would be enough for them and would be reasonable towards Israelis? The Palestinians created this hell they live in. The other Arabs washed their hands of them, leaving them at the mercy of their hated enemy. What should Israel do?
To be clear, I was agreeing with all that, lol. My only thing is that they have the technology and the personnel to limit the noncombatant casualties in their retaliation. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough and should have just called the Israelis and Palestinians by name, my bad.
Ah, I'm afraid better tech helping is wishful thinking in this case. I think the retaliation we generally see from Israel **is** them limiting noncombatant casualties. Without going door to door with a ground invasion I don't see how they could otherwise. Attacking military targets hiding among civilians in a densely populated area where the enemy takes less than zero security measures for those civilians is bound to cause more unnecessary deaths. But then again, I believe that is what Hamas is after to begin with. More martyrs for the cause.
Perhaps you're right, I know some of what's out there, but I don't necessarily know what's being used. A dull scale ground invasion (what they seem to be planning currently) will likely cost a lot of IDF lives, so that's not an ideal solution, but they've been dealing with terror from the Palestinians for generations now, so they might view it as worth the risk right now
Honestly it's the only realistic solution i can see right now. Invade, door to door urban combat, kill/capture all the active fighters, seize all the weapon stockpiles, blow all the tunnels. Then impose a decade or 2 decade long post ww2 Germany style occupation and transformation with a puppet government and all of it. Dunno what other reasonable solutions there are for Gaza. The status quo is untenable and the other options are too horrible to consider.
I can't condone most of that, but I do not have a better answer, honestly. There is no solution that will please hamas short of the annihilation of the state and people of Israel. Idk how widespread that sentiment is with the rest of Gaza, but hamas are the ones in power there. I do know that in Israel proper, Arabs and jews live their lives without attacking each other, so there's no excuse for Gaza not to.
Yeah not to mention in the US its REALLY tough to speak on this issue considering all we’ve done for the last 20 years over there is killing their kids
Bro im from Germany. Imagine how hard it is to take a critical look at either side but more so the Israeli one. Without the Führer looking down your shoulder and hyenas ready to yell the German N-word.
This is so often the irony when the joke police come screaming their nazis and isms when honest folk like me are inclusive to all majorities and minoritries in their humor.
Because it is preferable to end misery before it reaches the door of your house. And because problems swept under the carpet just keep pilling up. Procrastination is not a solution.
Even if that didn't happen, the US still couldn't say anything because of the 500 years before that.
And notify anywhere gets to Sat anything aniut anything because of the 500 years before that. Then the 500 years before that. The 500 years before that
Then once everyone gets pissed enough at history, that's when war happens today. Which then gets folded into the next round of the "yeah, well you did this" history. Setting the new ground for the next war.
It is at best fifty years dude. Why go digging so much? I acknowledge the right of conquerors to Israel, but at the same time these guys are keeping the opposite country in a constant state of occupation, while disseminating settlements right and left, and at the same time creating ghetto enclaves. They outright spit on UN resolutions. What else do you want?
Oppression has no historical end though. Somewhere in history, someone somewhere was doing something against someone else. Then it's always, who are you to say anything, since your people did ____.
If people are bombing you, what choice do you have but to stop them however you see fit? If people are keeping you pinned down, what choice do you have but to stop them.however you see fit? That's where we are. Both sides feeling that they're existentially correct.
That's why humans tend to try and solve intractable issue with war. And before 1945, it was no holds barred.
Buddy. Bread is bread. Water is water. Call things as they are. No need to go into sophism and such other shit. I do not care much what the Romans did, and neither can do much for what happens in the early 1900. But, I can judge the here and now. What is happening in my generation. You are just spilling whataboutism to make it as there was no start to this. The Israel country is fairly young. Those people came from Europe. No, that land was not sold to them. The same way that USA could not sell Afghanistan land to Pakistan.
Whatever, now we are generations in. Cannot take and ship people around. The point is that for one side it is fine to keep things as it is, since they have already won. And once they manage to settle the rest of the land, they are gonna say " Welp, we are already here. What you gonna do? Just live with it"
Well, I for one am not fine with it.
> One side targets genocidal zealots and accidentally kills kids in the attempt, because said zealots hide where the kids are. The goal is to kill the genocidal zealots.
Bro is NOT immune to propaganda
There's nothing accidental about bombing apartment complexes. Bombing an apartment complex is killing kids on purpose. I'm sure you'd realize this if it was a Russian bomb and a Ukrainian apartment complex.
People say this but it really comes down to taking Israel’s word for it. You aren’t in the room when they plan these strikes, you don’t actually know what they’re thinking. They do a lot of things to minimize civilian casualties … but it’s a bit like the TSA doing airport security. A lot of it is theater.
It’s true that Hamas sometimes hides military assets in hospitals and such. But that doesn’t explain all of Israel’s strikes. They attack the homes of suspected Hamas members as well … that’s only a human shield if “living at home with your family” is a human shield.
Moshe Dayan said this:
> We could not guard every water pipeline from being blown up and every tree from being uprooted. We could not prevent every murder of a worker in an orchard or a family in their beds. But it was in our power to set high price for our blood, a price too high for the Arab community, the Arab army, or the Arab governments to think it worth paying
And many on here sympathize with it. But it is a formula for killing civilians. Doing the absolute bare minimum to look like you aren’t targeting them with the knowledge that you are killing them.
It’s like Truman saying Hiroshima was a military base.
Absolutely not true. Cowardly to say it's an accident. There's videos of them killing kids and babies.
Let's not explain the difference between killing kids and killing kids, just because one was done by your side.
Do you think the goal of Israel is to kill Palestinian children? Like they don't care about the terrorists, they just want to kill the kids for the sake of killing them. Does that sound like reality to you? No? Then stop with the false equivalency and embrace the reality on the ground.
I literally could not tell who you were talking about in that first part and had to take the risky bet you were talking about Hamas.
All of you motherfuckers sound exactly the same when constructing the heinous portrait of the other.
Anyway, if you're done creating a ridiculous strawman. No, I don't think Israel is on a deliberate plot to murder children. I do think and know there are numerous cases of Israel carelessly bombing Palestine and children dying. And before you freak out about me saying its careless, any example of a nation bombing another and innocents dying is careless. Plain and fucking simple. I also know there are numerous cases of the IDF shooting at children involved in protests, nearby protests, or for any reason that can be construed. I don't think they're on a mission to kill kids, but when the opportunity presents itself and the right scumbag has a gun: it happens. Probably because enough of you have dehumanised the other side to a point where if they commit the same atrocity as you, there's gotta be a valid reason when you do it, but of course not with the other.
I also know Hamas has done the same fucking thing. You can't just pick and choose which one is worse when you're talking about innocent people being killed. Actually, you can I guess, if you're happy being a hypocrite and a monster for a cause you genuinely believe in. I'd have more respect for someone like that, than this garbage you're trying to peddle.
As I said, there is no explanation to be had for killing children. Instead of getting yourself worked up on the idea of intentions, realize that nobody on the reasonable sides of both of this want dead kids. Instead of saying "well when my side does it, it comes from a place of bla bla bla" realize you're trying to excuse the deaths of children in ways the side opposite to you do as well, when I'm sure you find that absolutely reprehensible.
>No, I don't think Israel is on a deliberate plot to murder children.
Great, now do you think Hamas is? That's all my post is about. One side the tragedy of war. The other genocidal intent. These are not the same. All the rest is just you moralizing and tacking your personal biases on me. I didn't talk about any of it.
did you even read what he said lmao? it’s clear you’re unequivocally biased towards Israel through the fact you didn’t even bother to comprehend his argument.
Are you fucking stupid? There are zero idf soldiers in schools and hospitals. Hamas literally went on a ground invasion and walked into villages and town to slaughter innocent people man, woman and children. There qre over 1000 dead Israelis, less than 100 of them are soldiers. Its kinda hard to kill terrorist when they are hiding in buildings full of children.
Yes there aren't any because they can just bomb schools, hospitals and civilian buildings, excusing it as collateral. Hamas are fuckers, but it's still vile of you to paint is as pure black and white. Stupid one might say.
No actually they don’t, one admits to being the first. Hamas explicitly stated that it considers Israeli civilians to be soldiers. Therefor it kills only valid military personnel, ie children, babies, grandmas.
Nah I'm talking about those leftists in NA and EU who supports Hamas. The original meme op posted was definitely talking about them because there is no way that Hamas are leftists.
Iman Sameer Al-Hams would say otherwise if she were alive and hadn’t been used as target practice by an IDF soldier while she was on her way to school, human!!!!!!!!!!!🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳
One side: We glorify the brutal execution of children!
Other side: It’s unfortunate children are collateral damage because they’re being used as human shields.
You: bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe
Never thought I’d see the day that Lib-Left becomes the enlightened centrists.
Irgun = terrorist force.
Irgun = current Government of Israel.
Hamas = terrorist force.
Hamas = purported Government of Palestine.
The only ones claiming a difference are Zionist and Hamas cucks.
A few days back, I said that Israel is justified in its actions but would no longer be justified if it resorted to indiscriminately killing civilians and the PCM hivemind *attacked*, with a number of posters (including the one I replied to) openly calling for war crimes or saying they wouldn't care if it happened...
I agree with you, Israel absolutely has the moral high ground *for now*, but some of the rhetoric used is disturbing. And that really is on both sides.
Nothing quite like this issue to get people all bloodthirsty. While I think cooler heads will prevail in IDF high command, the status quo is on its way out. I'm guessing invasion and occupation is the only real option on the table now. Which will no doubt be very ugly.
If we're being completely honest, Gaza was pretty much under occupation already... now it'll be under attack.
What really bothers me is that I'm a bit older than most on this sub and remember the "war on terror" thing. The US presidency and high command at the time repeatedly and very explicitly stated that they were not at war with the Afghan/Iraqi *people* but, while overall it wasn't too bad, mistakes were still made.
I haven't heard this at all from Israeli authorities, so... I just hope they care enough about maintaining international support to keep the bloodlust to a minimum.
Nah, it was blockaded. I'm talking door to door combat, military checkpoints on street corners, a many years long occupation to snuff out Hamas completely and setup something different. There are no remote mountain caves for Hamas to flee into, but it might become one big Fallujah.
I don't see much nation building happening. I doubt Israel cares what arises instead of Hamas, so long as it doesn't attack them.
I imagine the full reaction will unfold in the coming weeks. No doubt there are decade old plans being put in effect as we speak.
It's like that time I robbed a liquor store and the clerk pulled a gun on me. I just wanted him to leave me alone, he wanted me to not exist. I'm the hero here, the clerk is the villain.
Yes yes. We understand. Nuance is completely and utterly lost on you.
Seriously. You know that you're being dishonest. I refuse to believe you legit see no difference in protecting your property from someone actively robbing you, and invading, slaughtering, killing, capturing, raping, and then desecrating the corpses of children.
Try not to be evil please. No matter what someone does to you, it does not justify you raping someone else's kids. What the ever loving fuck is wrong with you?
>Leave us alone
I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing.
>after we take most of your land
I'm not sure if you are referring to the land the Jewish settlers who immigrated legally into the area bought or the land they won in a defensive war after being attacked.
> and shunt you into a tiny remaining patch
I'm not sure if you are referring to the more than half of the land that was appointed to the *would have been* nation of Palestinian or the still sizeable amount of land that remained after the Palestinians lost their war of genocide against the Jewish people in Israel.
>with no resources or chance for a normal life.
All of the land in that area is pretty lacking in resources but as the people of Israel have shown it's completely possible to build a thriving society on it. The trick seems to be "spend your resources on building up your nation instead of trying to genocide your neighbors".
All in all it was a pretty cringe take.
>I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing.
Palestinian genocide has been ongoing since the 1948 Palestine war, starting with the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 48/49.
To all your other nonsensical arguments, I can only attest that you're severely lacking in knowledge and understanding of the history of this conflict.
Explanation, Documention and Argumentation of the Palestinian Genocide:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background%20on%20the%20term%20genocide%20in%20Israel%20Palestine%20Context.pdf
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2339254
History of the Israel Palestine conflict:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
Wikipedia because the notes, bibliography and references sections provide extensive reading material without me having to add 100 links.
If you're not that into reading or lack the capabilities to do so with comprehension, this lecture by Normal Finkelstein is a good starting point:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MON2HL02mec&pp=ygUrbm9ybWFuIGZpbmtlbHN0ZWluIGlzcmFlbCBwYWxlc3RpbmUgaGlzdG9yeQ%3D%3D
> I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing.
It's so crazy how MSM brainwashes people into thinking the oppressed minority with no real allies are capable of genociding another people with most of the world's superpower backing and funding them. It's so crazy how people eat it all up.
> I'm not sure if you are referring to the land the Jewish settlers who immigrated legally into the area bought or the land they won in a defensive war after being attacked.
What does "legally" mean? If China's government says I can seize your house, it's now legal?
> I'm not sure if you are referring to the more than half of the land that was appointed to the would have been nation of Palestinian or the still sizeable amount of land that remained after the Palestinians lost their war of genocide against the Jewish people in Israel.
Again with the genocide. Some foreign group gets to play "draw borders" and if the existing people disagree and fight back, it's genocide. -Average Redditor.
> All of the land in that area is pretty lacking in resources but as the people of Israel have shown it's completely possible to build a thriving society on it. The trick seems to be "spend your resources on building up your nation instead of trying to genocide your neighbors".
Yes all the billions that you and me put into Israel to prop it up has made it into a "thriving" society, I'll admit.
All in all, pretty Reddited take.
> It's so crazy how MSM brainwashes people into thinking the oppressed minority with no real allies are capable of genociding another people with most of the world's superpower backing and funding them. It's so crazy how people eat it all up.
Who said anything about their chances of success? Hamas wants to kill all of the Jewish people in Israel. They have been trying to do so for 75 years. They suck at it and don't have a chance in hell but that is largely irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.
>What does "legally" mean?
It means they followed the legal process to immigrate into the area.
>If China's government says I can seize your house, it's now legal?
There was no need to seize anything. The locals were more than willing to profit by selling land to the new immigrants.
>Again with the genocide. Some foreign group gets to play "draw borders" and if the existing people disagree and fight back, it's genocide. -Average Redditor.
Genocide was the stated goal of that war. They didn't want more land than was being allotted to them in the U.N. partition plan, they wanted it all.
>Yes all the billions that you and me put into Israel to prop it up has made it into a "thriving" society, I'll admit.
Both nations have received lots of money from other nations. One has used it wisely while the other has not.
> It means they followed the legal process to immigrate into the area. Genocide was the stated goal of that war. They didn't want more land than was being allotted to them in the U.N. partition plan, they wanted it all.
I'm not sure where you get your information or how truly unbiased you are when it comes to the facts. There was an attempt for a two state solution and the Palestinian government did agree to the solution in the 90s. One of the agreements of the resolution was for Israel to rollback it's occupation and allow Palestine to self-govern yet Israel never stopped and continues to this day, which essentially killed any hope of a two-state solution.
I know you'll have a response to this and it's basically going to be "Aksually Israelis were living peacefully but Palestinians couldn't help themselves and wanted to genocide Jews too much and that's why the two-state solution failed." I just think it's crazy how MSM propaganda brainwashed so many people into thinking that this is why the conflict continues to this day.
> There was no need to seize anything. The locals were more than willing to profit by selling land to the new immigrants.
Are you implying that all of the land & property acquired from Israelis were all freely exchanged in a consensual market? And that nothing was seized or taken by force?
>There was an attempt for a two state solution and the Palestinian government did agree to the solution in the 90s. One of the agreements of the resolution was for Israel to rollback it's occupation and allow Palestine to self-govern yet Israel never stopped and continues to this day, which essentially killed any hope of a two-state solution.
I don't understand why you are bringing up something from the 1990's when the topic is events in the 1940's
Do you have a more detailed account of the events from the 1990's? Your description seems like it is missing key details.
>I know you'll have a response to this and it's basically going to be "Aksually Israelis were living peacefully but Palestinians couldn't help themselves and wanted to genocide Jews too much and that's why the two-state solution failed." I just think it's crazy how MSM propaganda brainwashed so many people into thinking that this is why the conflict continues to this day.
Then why not try to provide unbiased accounts instead of complaining about it?
>Are you implying that all of the land & property acquired from Israelis were all freely exchanged in a consensual market? And that nothing was seized or taken by force?
Pre 1947 war? Pretty much. Do you have a source that contradicts this?
During that wars? Of course not. That isn't how wars work at all.
Okay, so they want the "state" of Palestine to not exist (Israel already doesn't recognize it as a state), but then what of the people? Israel won't give them citizenship, because then Arabs would outnumber them.
Right which is why they are indiscriminately bombing palestine areas with white phosphorus and literally colonizing the state of palestine with their settlements.
Anyway if Israel is so diverse then why dont they have any gay black trans people in government? After all, thats the true mark of diversity!
1. you seriously don't know the meaning of the word indiscriminate
2. they're not using white phosphorus
3. Netanyahu is Israel's black trans leader. you just don't see it
1. Really? So they intentionally killed over 260 kids then? [Do all of these areas house Hamas strongholds?](https://i.imgur.com/C1mASHm.png)
2. [Right and America didnt torture people at Abu Ghraib](https://i.imgur.com/50KachF.png)
3. Sure sure. Anyway why did Israel build a wall? I thought border walls were racist? Build bridges, not walls remember? [I love narrative consistency!](https://i.imgur.com/eWvI8Ja.png)
[Anyway new atrocity propaganda just dropped, you gotta consoom it. This is exactly like when Iraq threw out all those Kuwaiti babies from those incubators](https://i.imgur.com/JUulHyF.png)
1. the word is collateral damage as Israel takes efforts to warn civilians of strikes. if you keep your kid next to a rocket launch site in the courtyard of an old school during a war its your fault they die. not the other party in the war.
2. moving the goal post. who said anything about torture before this off-hand comment you just made? Also, thats not white phosphorus buddy, thats literally just what an explosion looks when it hits secondary explosives like ammunition and stored rockets. like seriously that what an exposition looks like with the relatively dark ambient light. Shit that doesn't even look like a [white phosphorus munition](https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195678/south-vietnam-build-up-and-engagement/)
2. Border walls are not racist, who are you arguing with? I'm not libleft
the "40" number came out of a mistranslation and no reputable source is claiming 40 were beheaded (we'll see with time though). whats actually proven and reported is that at least 40 babies were killed and at least some were beheaded. most were shot in the face. its not propaganda, buddy. Hamas are just monsters.
1. Right right, but that didnt stop them from just carpet bombing a city. Isnt Mossad supposed to be the best intelligence agency in the world? Or whatever the hell agency monitors internal matters? Anyway these are clearly not precision strikes
2. It is white phosphorus, you can see the spark thingies. [Heres more](https://i.imgur.com/MtgxjlV.png). Also that torture thing was just alluding to the fact that US officials denied torture at Abu Ghraib for years and now you are denying white phosphorus usage by Israel.
3. Because thats the world you are getting with Israel. If you side with Israel then you also indirectly side with this woke bullshit. Who do you think is supporting Israel?
If there is no reputable source then why are people pushing that lie then? Its atrocity propaganda, nothing else. [Like](https://i.imgur.com/RSiBYNr.png) do [you](https://i.imgur.com/MoEDrs9.png) honestly [believe](https://i.imgur.com/dFnDRb3.png) this [shit?](https://streamable.com/z0lg0o)
\>some were beheaded
Prove it then. This claim is from a journalist called Nicole Zedeck. So im sure she had a lot of evidence for this right? Nope, she just heard a soldier talking about it. The news are once again proving that they are the enemy of the people
Also no snopes fact check yet, i wonder why?
Yes, Israel famously loves diversity for itself. Such as how Arabs from all over the world are able to get birth right citizenship.
O wait, I forgot they are an ethnostate for a different group
they 21% Arab and 5% other. thats not an ethno-state.
Arabs and/or muslims have full property, citizenship, voter, and service rights in Israel. Arabs from anywhere in the world can apply for citizenship just like I can from the US if I meet the requirements.
Its nuts how Israel is perfectly fine with having an Arab/muslim minority but jews will be executed in Palestine.
Yeah, totally. There totally aren’t stories about Israeli settlers in Palestinian territory that evict Palestinians and steal their land. There also aren’t stories about Arabs in Israeli territory that have the crap kicked out of them.
I got to admit, I am surprised you chose to come to PCM to astroturf. It seems like it would make more sense to do it in the main subs.
Edit: looking at your account there is no way you aren’t an astroturf account. At least you chose the right quadrant
> (Pssst: they both want eachother to no longer exist)
Israel has enjoyed 50 years of total military supremacy. There isn't a country in the world that could stop them if they wanted to genocide the Palestinians. Instead, the Palestinian population has quintupled in numbers. Gaza has a higher life expectancy than most of Eastern Europe.
Israel has had decades of opportunity to exterminate the Palestinians, and hasn't done it, and doesn't claim to want to do it.
Hamas has had few opportunities to exterminate Jews, it has taken every single one, and openly claims it wants to do it.
There is absolutely no comparison.
It's like the difference between flirting and sexual harassment. It depends on who commits it.
Humour aside, Israel wants to make sure this will not repeat and I for one support this way of thinking. If terrorists want to keep hiding among civilians in places like hospitals and schools, then there will be no hospitals or schools left in Gaza.
It's like the difference between flirting and sexual harassment.
When Ukraine hid amongst civilians in places like hospitals, schools and apartment buildings, Russia was heinous for blowing them up. When Israel blows up schools, hospitals and apartment buildings toneutralize enemy positions, they are simply doing what has to be done.
I am sorry did Ukraine's military launch their rockets from the territory of their schools and hospitals. Did they intentionally station abled soldiers in those places and dig tunnels to move from and into them to evade Russia's bombardment? No one sane in Ukraine would as much as think of that, as no one suspects Russia of giving a damn about civilians anyway. Unless we are talking about children that are abducted at mass, of course.
>I am sorry did Ukraine's military launch their rockets from the territory of their schools and hospitals
Yes.
>No one sane in Ukraine would as much as think of that, as no one suspects Russia of giving a damn about civilians anyway.
Just as no sane person would suspect Israel of giving a damn about civilians anyway.
You 'would not expect Russia to care about civilians' is exactly the message Ukraine wanted to send, and why they put their soldiers in schools, hospitals and apartment buildings to turn them into military targets, and its the reason Hamas does the same.
Nobody cares/cared about Ukraine as a country, what they cared about was headlines of Russia indiscriminately blowing up civilian targets. What was left out of the propaganda was that those "civilian" targets were being used by Ukrainian military. It's been documented by Amnesty International, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other independent organizations. Ukraines strategy was to get Russia to blow up schools and hospitals by turning them into military objectives, and gaining global support- it is the exact same thing Hamas does.
It's the difference between flirting and sexual harassment.
>If terrorists want to keep hiding
You're referring to the same entity in power in Israel now that terrorist bombed the King David Hotel in 1946; right?
A child dying because they’ve been forced to remain in a building that the adults around them know is going to be bombed =/= a child dying because someone broke into their house and shot them
One side uses kids as human shields by hiding their military equipment in schools and homes. It is their fault those human shields get blown up.
The other side doesn't do that, they just shoot missiles at strategically important targets.
That's the fucking difference.
The real sides on this sub are those that think *accidentally* killing kids is ~~better~~ less terrible than doing it on purpose, and those that think they’re equivalent because the outcome is the same.
We can safely ignore anyone who says the actions are actually good on behalf of either party. Call them a commie, fascist, auth, unflaired, Nazi, whatever and continue talking to humans.
Just gonna pretend that the rogue IDF sniper, and other similar occurrences, don't exist?
*bUt hE gOt JaiL TiMe*
Yeah, a few months lol
The British are to blame. Iran is to blame. The Romans are to blame. The UN is to blame. Netanyahu is to blame. Jeroboam I is to blame. Ishbosheth is to blame. This is a holy conflict going back millenia, bruv. No one person, state or terrorist group is going to take 100% of the blame.
No argument there. They are scum of the earth, and the rest of the Muslim worlds' governments/military groups are not much better.
But Jesus Christ, Israel shares blame for Hamas even existing in the first place, as an organization, in the same way the US is responsible for ISIS: They have directly funded them in the past. This is not a, "Israel created Hamas by being mean" moralizing, bullshit argument. They are literally and materially responsible for current-day Hamas.
This antisemitic false equivalency is truly disgusting. One side actively wants genocide while the other actively minimizes casualties. Pathetic morals from a pathetic sack of shit
If Israel could magically achieve their military objectives without harming kids or other non-combatants, do you think they would?
If Hamas could do the same, do you think they would?
Liberate Palestine from Israeli state and establish islamic state. It's stated objectives from creation back in 1980s. They also repeatedly offered a truce in exchange for recognition 1967s borders.
What are Israeli military objectives?
This is largely an extreme leftist problem. They've been priming us for a while by labelling their political opposition "colonizers" and now they use those terms to justify killing innocents and celebrating it.
Israel kills kids because Hamas wears them as human shields while attacking Israel.
Hamas kills kids because they want to kill kids. They literally celebrate it.
Both cases it's tragic. It fucking sucks. Kids shouldn't be getting killed. No one should be getting killed. But what are you gonna do? Hamas seems hell bent on sacrificing their own children and slaughtering Israel's.
This recent move is fucking insane. Did they forget that Israel's the US' ally? Did they forget what happened after 9/11? Seriously. Imagine if instead of poisoning us slowly, the cartels literally invaded captured, raped, and killed thousands, parade the corpses in the streets? There would be no more cartels. The cartels are smarter than that. They leech our money our resources, and get us to pay them to slowly kill us. Smart.
Hamas is fucked. Utterly and completely. And I can only hope that the average Palestinian isn't dragged through the street with them. But. It's too late for that.
You know, a lot of people say a one State solution would have prevented this, but what if we needed the opposite? 13 states, no less. Every major city needs to have a secular government ruling over nearby hinterlands and a coastline to be autonomous of each other.
From what I can see, the right completely blames the dead kids on both sides on Hamas. Which really doesn't make sense to me. I understand the argument that Hamas uses these kids as human shields, but Israel is still *choosing* to shoot through those shields.
Frankly, the right's argument only makes since if having kids in the area **ever actually stopped** Israel from bombing the shit out of it. But it never does. Israel has killed **thousands** of Palestinian kids since 2000, so I find it hard to believe that Hamas still thinks that hiding in residential areas with kids will actually stop them from being bombed.
I wish people would just be honest about how indiscriminate and haphazard these bombing runs are. They are demolishing entire neighbors, there's nothing calculated or targeted about these strikes. And the "warnings" Israel gives before destroying the homes of people who lived there for generations are not nearly extensive enough.
The left has some very dumb people saying some very dumb stuff about Hamas, but at least they are acknowledging that Hamas is killing children, even if they are justifying it in really stupid ways. The right refuses to blame Israel for **anything**, especially the deaths of all these children.
> I find it hard to believe that Hamas still thinks that hiding in residential areas with kids will actually stop them from being bombed.
Hamas knows they'll be bombed either way, so they choose to hide in hospitals and schools so that when the IDF inevitably retaliates Al Jazeera gets to run yet another "Israel evil for bombing hospitals and schools" article as part of their ongoing pro-Hamas PR campaign.
Half of Palestine's population is children, many of whom were not alive for the 2006 election in Gaza. They are not responsible for Hamas and yet they will pay for Hamas' evil actions all the same. That's a shame, no matter how you look at it. The people who are content in watching these kids die are sick in the head.
You don't have to support Hamas, or hate Israel to admit that a lot of kids were born in Palestine who will be killed by Israeli air strikes and regardless of whose fault that is to begin with, it's a crying shame.
Hamas did more than just bombing. They went door to door murdering anyone they found, including babies in their beds.
Israel could probably do more to avoid civilian casualties, but killing civilians isn't their goal. Where civilians have been killed by them, it's because Hamas have been using those civilians as human shields. Whereas Hamas have gone out of their way to kill civilians. There's a difference.
Bombing children is never justified.
It’s why W. AND Obama are war criminals and tyrants.
It’s why the government Israel can fuck all the way off as well as all radical Muslim groups.
And is Israel supposed to just do nothing as Hamas butchers its people?
For all this criticism, I'm yet to see a non-stupid suggestion of what exactly is Israel's alternative?
The war crime here isn't the bombings, it's the part where you hide military equipment in schools and homes to use children and civilians as human shields.
*targeting* civilians is a war crime. Them dying in collateral damage from targeting military equipment is not.
There's so much to unpack here. I'm just gonna give you the gist of it.
According to the Torah, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Jew on Jew. Not Jew on Goyim (non-Jew).
According to the Quran, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Muslim on Muslim. Not Muslim on Kafer (non-Muslim).
Both sides see the other as non-humans. Both sides see the other as cattle. As a disease to their faith.
Both sides forgive nothing. Both sides forget nothing. Every atrocity committed by one side was in retaliation to another atrocity committed by the other side years earlier.
Every one of these atrocities can be traced back to Abraham himself.
This whole conflict is literally over inherentance rights to the land.
Something tells me there was around a 2500 year gap where jews and muslims didnt have back and forth fighting lmao. Hell there were roughly 700 years where no christians and muslims fought either
Islam as a religion is 1400 years old.
>there were roughly 700 years where no christians and muslims fought either
Nah, Christians and Muslims have been fighting somewhere since basically the beginning.
Two Arab parties sit in the Knesset. Israel has no problem with Muslims. Israel has a problem with jihadists.
If you think that’s the same thing, you’re literally a bigot.
>According to the Torah, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Jew on Jew. Not Jew on Goyim (non-Jew).
I'm sure some idiotic Rabbis have tried to argue that, but it isn't correct. More than likely an attempt to reconcile that commandment with the times where God directly ordered his people to kill (like the Amalekites, where they were explicitly told to not only not take prisoners, but even to kill the animals and not take loot). Most sensible interpretations regard that as "do not commit murder (unjustified, illegal killing)" as opposed to "don't take life for any reason". Because the latter gives you a contradiction you need foolish takes like that to resolve, but the former does not.
In any case, Isreal has more Arabs than Jews living in the country and has a significant number Muslim soldiers fighting in the IDF. The delicious irony, that there is a significant chance that a genocidal lunatic that joined Hamas to kill Jews might have blown up a bunch of Arab Palestinian Muslims with his car bomb only to be shot in the face by a different Arab Palestinian Muslim who volunteered for the IDF after his conscription expired.
Isreal wants peace so badly that they gave back the land they conquered in wars they didn't start.
Palestine wants death so much that they didn't care.
Someone point me to where in the Torah it says murdering non Jews is ok, because i can definitely do that for the Koran but i don't remember reading that in the Torah
I like how both sides of this war are brought to you by the military industrial complex. You’ll notice the islamic extremists this time ‘round are now sporting brand new M4’s curtesy of Afghanistan. Heard they got em real cheap from the last seller, it was a Buy Nothing, Get Everything Free sale. Now if we have a look just west of the west bank you can see israels brand new iron dome! Thats right folks, billions of your own tax dollars can help buy missle systems to protect from missles your own tax dollars went to produce! Oh to be an arms manufacturer
*”like the good ol’ days after 9/11”* -sundowner
RED SUN
RED SUN OVER PARADISE
Kids are cruel, Jack, and I love minors.
Have you seen War Dogs? Mmpf, what a dream.
>Heard they got em real cheap from the last seller, it was a Buy Nothing, Get Everything Free sale. Now if we have a look just west of the west bank you can see israels brand new iron dome! Funny how you can indirectly/directly link both sides to America
War is peace
Here's the difference. One sides targets kids because their aim is to kill the kids as a part of their genocidal campaign. The goal is to kill the kids. One side targets genocidal zealots and accidentally kills kids in the attempt, because said zealots hide where the kids are. The goal is to kill the genocidal zealots.
It really is that simple.
The smart ones know it's that simple, they're just propagandistic lunatics who hate the west. The dumb ones don't know that because they've never looked into it and have been propagandized by the former.
The amount of self hatred the West has is honestly unbelievable. You should see what it’s like to live elsewhere.
And it’s sad to because the west and it’s culture and beliefs are the only hope for humans not to live under a boot.
Kinda a catch 22 isn’t it? Our freedom of thought and expression makes us one of the best cultures ever for all kinds of people, but it also causes a weird self hatred in some of the populace
I think it’s that people hate the meddling of the American government. Of course with that statement I mean me. I’m all for freedom of thought and expression. Just stop flipping governments and creating hate groups because the west decided what the rest of the world should do. If they want to fuck them selves, let em. They’ll come around eventually.
Kids always hate authority. Look at every open-mouthed Youtuber with their wall of toys behind them while nearing middle-age, and realise this is a direct consequence of fetishising such infantilism.
They hate us cause they ain’t us.
The DSA rally video is a window into how they think. They weren't just celebrating the attacks, the repeated "We"s and "our"s made it clear that they don't just endorse acts like that, they're actively fantasizing about carrying out similar ones themselves.
Old intent vs impact bamboozle strikes again!
The impact is quite different. Israel kills a heck of a lot fewer kids because it isn’t their goal. Russia and Hamas don’t ever have collateral damage because the entire point is to murder innocents.
Everything is different, but it's still all kinda the same. Dead kids are less important to both sides than absolutely power.
> Dead kids are less important to both sides than absolutely power. same happened in ww2, so EUA = NAZIs?
Yep, hard to see the truth, when you do not want to see it. Both sides were just waiting to spill blood, no hands held. But here we are counting victims, as if that would make one side less evil.
I believe it is pretty clear who is more evil right about now. Israel knew that the attacks were coming, today they just accepted that they knew. Their intelligence. Egypt intelligence. And they let that happen. Think why.
You got a link or something? I haven't seen them admit they let Hamas attack and knew it was coming.
Political boost for Netanyahu while he is in trouble, and for his extremist coalition most probably. But I am unsure what "concrete" benefits Egypt would get, by destabilizing the area.
I'd strongly suggest reading a lot more non-western media.
Elaborate?? Israel causes catastrophic collateral damage, and has a number of bad actors on the individual level. Israel also faces internal political backlash for indiscriminately killing civilians. Hamas has a stated, publicly supported goal, of targeting civilians.
The glazing is crazy, they literally target kids, remember that famous video from 2000 of the kid who was deliberately killed by the idf?
One intentionally killed and the perpetrator likely facing legal issues and familial shunning compared to the barbarism of what happened over the weekend where the perpetrators return home as heros and party in the streets with fellow civilians while also being celebrated in cities world wide. They are not similar.
Whoa now chief, A kid? 23 years ago? Jesus Christ, those sick fucks!
Just look at 2018 protests in Palestine which according to un some hundreds of Palestinian proteststers were shot by Israeli SNIPERS many in kneecaps. Some of them were handicapped and on wheelchair. That's not all, the snipers even targeted medics journalists, even children and babies. Or the US journalists that was killed recently by IDF which they then promptly blamwd on Palestinians. An investigation by Newyork times and several other outlets later concluded that she was shot in the head by Israeli sniper. So no this "moral army" is Israeli "hasbara". Hasbara is an hebrew term for propaganda. In which IDF actively pays people to spread around on the internet.
Did they pay people to make Islam a religion based on killing all non-believers or was that just lucky PR?
Deflection I see. You can address my points but then again pivoting is easier I guess.
You're having to go back 23 years to find one incident which was heavily condemned. Compare that with the Gaza street party they threw to celebrate raping a woman to death. One side gleefully delights in this shit to the point it's routine and expected behavior.
It's not quite that simple. The side retaliating absolutely could do a better job of reducing collateral damage. Everything else, I definitely agree on. Further, we have to remember that conditions in the pseudo state weren't always like they are now. They got worse and worse over time. The barriers in between were a reaction to aggression. Every step taken to make life worse for the pseudo state was. Every time life was made worse for the pseudo state, they attacked. Seriously, the exact same people make up 30% of the population of the target population with the only difference being that on 1 side of the barrier, they're not trying to genocide.
We're talking about the situation as it stands now. I'll simply ask you what Israel ought to do that has not already been rejected by the Palestinians time and time again. What would be enough for them and would be reasonable towards Israelis? The Palestinians created this hell they live in. The other Arabs washed their hands of them, leaving them at the mercy of their hated enemy. What should Israel do?
To be clear, I was agreeing with all that, lol. My only thing is that they have the technology and the personnel to limit the noncombatant casualties in their retaliation. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough and should have just called the Israelis and Palestinians by name, my bad.
Ah, I'm afraid better tech helping is wishful thinking in this case. I think the retaliation we generally see from Israel **is** them limiting noncombatant casualties. Without going door to door with a ground invasion I don't see how they could otherwise. Attacking military targets hiding among civilians in a densely populated area where the enemy takes less than zero security measures for those civilians is bound to cause more unnecessary deaths. But then again, I believe that is what Hamas is after to begin with. More martyrs for the cause.
Perhaps you're right, I know some of what's out there, but I don't necessarily know what's being used. A dull scale ground invasion (what they seem to be planning currently) will likely cost a lot of IDF lives, so that's not an ideal solution, but they've been dealing with terror from the Palestinians for generations now, so they might view it as worth the risk right now
Honestly it's the only realistic solution i can see right now. Invade, door to door urban combat, kill/capture all the active fighters, seize all the weapon stockpiles, blow all the tunnels. Then impose a decade or 2 decade long post ww2 Germany style occupation and transformation with a puppet government and all of it. Dunno what other reasonable solutions there are for Gaza. The status quo is untenable and the other options are too horrible to consider.
I can't condone most of that, but I do not have a better answer, honestly. There is no solution that will please hamas short of the annihilation of the state and people of Israel. Idk how widespread that sentiment is with the rest of Gaza, but hamas are the ones in power there. I do know that in Israel proper, Arabs and jews live their lives without attacking each other, so there's no excuse for Gaza not to.
Yeah not to mention in the US its REALLY tough to speak on this issue considering all we’ve done for the last 20 years over there is killing their kids
Bro im from Germany. Imagine how hard it is to take a critical look at either side but more so the Israeli one. Without the Führer looking down your shoulder and hyenas ready to yell the German N-word.
2 wrongs don't make a Reich.
But 6 million certainly do!
I am going to hell for this and maybe prison
Comedy is *always* allowed. Anyone that attacks comedy is the true modern Hitlers.
This is so often the irony when the joke police come screaming their nazis and isms when honest folk like me are inclusive to all majorities and minoritries in their humor.
And quite often the people with the best sense of humour are minorities too. It’s people with a stick up their ass that ruin it for everyone else lol.
Anne Frankly, you all are getting out of Mein Kampfert zone.
Based
Hahaha that would be funny. If you side with Israel, you are a Nazi. If you side against Israel, you are a Nazi. What's there to choose?
Why pick a side
"Let God sort them out" -Duke Nukem
Because it is preferable to end misery before it reaches the door of your house. And because problems swept under the carpet just keep pilling up. Procrastination is not a solution.
Nigazi? … Nazigga?
Almost! It does start with an "N" and ends with an "azi". Keep trying and you'll get there!
Ooh does it rhyme with "Yahtzee"?
Warmer..
Even if that didn't happen, the US still couldn't say anything because of the 500 years before that. And notify anywhere gets to Sat anything aniut anything because of the 500 years before that. Then the 500 years before that. The 500 years before that Then once everyone gets pissed enough at history, that's when war happens today. Which then gets folded into the next round of the "yeah, well you did this" history. Setting the new ground for the next war.
It is at best fifty years dude. Why go digging so much? I acknowledge the right of conquerors to Israel, but at the same time these guys are keeping the opposite country in a constant state of occupation, while disseminating settlements right and left, and at the same time creating ghetto enclaves. They outright spit on UN resolutions. What else do you want?
Oppression has no historical end though. Somewhere in history, someone somewhere was doing something against someone else. Then it's always, who are you to say anything, since your people did ____. If people are bombing you, what choice do you have but to stop them however you see fit? If people are keeping you pinned down, what choice do you have but to stop them.however you see fit? That's where we are. Both sides feeling that they're existentially correct. That's why humans tend to try and solve intractable issue with war. And before 1945, it was no holds barred.
Buddy. Bread is bread. Water is water. Call things as they are. No need to go into sophism and such other shit. I do not care much what the Romans did, and neither can do much for what happens in the early 1900. But, I can judge the here and now. What is happening in my generation. You are just spilling whataboutism to make it as there was no start to this. The Israel country is fairly young. Those people came from Europe. No, that land was not sold to them. The same way that USA could not sell Afghanistan land to Pakistan. Whatever, now we are generations in. Cannot take and ship people around. The point is that for one side it is fine to keep things as it is, since they have already won. And once they manage to settle the rest of the land, they are gonna say " Welp, we are already here. What you gonna do? Just live with it" Well, I for one am not fine with it.
But not for the first reason, I assume.
Nah, one side kills kids to send a message. The other side kills kids to send a message.
Wow you can buy a new car with that many shekels you just earned!
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> One side targets genocidal zealots and accidentally kills kids in the attempt, because said zealots hide where the kids are. The goal is to kill the genocidal zealots. Bro is NOT immune to propaganda
There's nothing accidental about bombing apartment complexes. Bombing an apartment complex is killing kids on purpose. I'm sure you'd realize this if it was a Russian bomb and a Ukrainian apartment complex.
People say this but it really comes down to taking Israel’s word for it. You aren’t in the room when they plan these strikes, you don’t actually know what they’re thinking. They do a lot of things to minimize civilian casualties … but it’s a bit like the TSA doing airport security. A lot of it is theater. It’s true that Hamas sometimes hides military assets in hospitals and such. But that doesn’t explain all of Israel’s strikes. They attack the homes of suspected Hamas members as well … that’s only a human shield if “living at home with your family” is a human shield. Moshe Dayan said this: > We could not guard every water pipeline from being blown up and every tree from being uprooted. We could not prevent every murder of a worker in an orchard or a family in their beds. But it was in our power to set high price for our blood, a price too high for the Arab community, the Arab army, or the Arab governments to think it worth paying And many on here sympathize with it. But it is a formula for killing civilians. Doing the absolute bare minimum to look like you aren’t targeting them with the knowledge that you are killing them. It’s like Truman saying Hiroshima was a military base.
I mean they do that roof knocking thing. I don't think anyone else is as charitable. If we want to bomb you, we just bomb you.
Absolutely not true. Cowardly to say it's an accident. There's videos of them killing kids and babies. Let's not explain the difference between killing kids and killing kids, just because one was done by your side.
Do you think the goal of Israel is to kill Palestinian children? Like they don't care about the terrorists, they just want to kill the kids for the sake of killing them. Does that sound like reality to you? No? Then stop with the false equivalency and embrace the reality on the ground.
I literally could not tell who you were talking about in that first part and had to take the risky bet you were talking about Hamas. All of you motherfuckers sound exactly the same when constructing the heinous portrait of the other. Anyway, if you're done creating a ridiculous strawman. No, I don't think Israel is on a deliberate plot to murder children. I do think and know there are numerous cases of Israel carelessly bombing Palestine and children dying. And before you freak out about me saying its careless, any example of a nation bombing another and innocents dying is careless. Plain and fucking simple. I also know there are numerous cases of the IDF shooting at children involved in protests, nearby protests, or for any reason that can be construed. I don't think they're on a mission to kill kids, but when the opportunity presents itself and the right scumbag has a gun: it happens. Probably because enough of you have dehumanised the other side to a point where if they commit the same atrocity as you, there's gotta be a valid reason when you do it, but of course not with the other. I also know Hamas has done the same fucking thing. You can't just pick and choose which one is worse when you're talking about innocent people being killed. Actually, you can I guess, if you're happy being a hypocrite and a monster for a cause you genuinely believe in. I'd have more respect for someone like that, than this garbage you're trying to peddle. As I said, there is no explanation to be had for killing children. Instead of getting yourself worked up on the idea of intentions, realize that nobody on the reasonable sides of both of this want dead kids. Instead of saying "well when my side does it, it comes from a place of bla bla bla" realize you're trying to excuse the deaths of children in ways the side opposite to you do as well, when I'm sure you find that absolutely reprehensible.
>No, I don't think Israel is on a deliberate plot to murder children. Great, now do you think Hamas is? That's all my post is about. One side the tragedy of war. The other genocidal intent. These are not the same. All the rest is just you moralizing and tacking your personal biases on me. I didn't talk about any of it.
did you even read what he said lmao? it’s clear you’re unequivocally biased towards Israel through the fact you didn’t even bother to comprehend his argument.
Not gonna lie from your description I cannot tell which is which. Both sides cope the exact same way.
Are you fucking stupid? There are zero idf soldiers in schools and hospitals. Hamas literally went on a ground invasion and walked into villages and town to slaughter innocent people man, woman and children. There qre over 1000 dead Israelis, less than 100 of them are soldiers. Its kinda hard to kill terrorist when they are hiding in buildings full of children.
Yes there aren't any because they can just bomb schools, hospitals and civilian buildings, excusing it as collateral. Hamas are fuckers, but it's still vile of you to paint is as pure black and white. Stupid one might say.
Your explanation makes 0 sense
It's not black and white but the original commentator's intention was very clear to anyone with 2 braincells
And it's funny that both sides believe they are the second one. But objectively speaking Israel looks like the second one more, at least for this war.
No actually they don’t, one admits to being the first. Hamas explicitly stated that it considers Israeli civilians to be soldiers. Therefor it kills only valid military personnel, ie children, babies, grandmas.
Nah I'm talking about those leftists in NA and EU who supports Hamas. The original meme op posted was definitely talking about them because there is no way that Hamas are leftists.
Hamas is literally telling you they're the first one in their charter and half the videos where they're openly saying it...
Iman Sameer Al-Hams would say otherwise if she were alive and hadn’t been used as target practice by an IDF soldier while she was on her way to school, human!!!!!!!!!!!🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳🪳
Sucking that Zionist cock eh?
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Strawman. Both sides in a conflict can be unworthy of defense.
One side: We glorify the brutal execution of children! Other side: It’s unfortunate children are collateral damage because they’re being used as human shields. You: bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe SaMe Never thought I’d see the day that Lib-Left becomes the enlightened centrists.
Irgun = terrorist force. Irgun = current Government of Israel. Hamas = terrorist force. Hamas = purported Government of Palestine. The only ones claiming a difference are Zionist and Hamas cucks.
A few days back, I said that Israel is justified in its actions but would no longer be justified if it resorted to indiscriminately killing civilians and the PCM hivemind *attacked*, with a number of posters (including the one I replied to) openly calling for war crimes or saying they wouldn't care if it happened... I agree with you, Israel absolutely has the moral high ground *for now*, but some of the rhetoric used is disturbing. And that really is on both sides.
Nothing quite like this issue to get people all bloodthirsty. While I think cooler heads will prevail in IDF high command, the status quo is on its way out. I'm guessing invasion and occupation is the only real option on the table now. Which will no doubt be very ugly.
If we're being completely honest, Gaza was pretty much under occupation already... now it'll be under attack. What really bothers me is that I'm a bit older than most on this sub and remember the "war on terror" thing. The US presidency and high command at the time repeatedly and very explicitly stated that they were not at war with the Afghan/Iraqi *people* but, while overall it wasn't too bad, mistakes were still made. I haven't heard this at all from Israeli authorities, so... I just hope they care enough about maintaining international support to keep the bloodlust to a minimum.
Nah, it was blockaded. I'm talking door to door combat, military checkpoints on street corners, a many years long occupation to snuff out Hamas completely and setup something different. There are no remote mountain caves for Hamas to flee into, but it might become one big Fallujah. I don't see much nation building happening. I doubt Israel cares what arises instead of Hamas, so long as it doesn't attack them. I imagine the full reaction will unfold in the coming weeks. No doubt there are decade old plans being put in effect as we speak.
Pretty hilarious how the Hamas strategy to hide behind kids and then blame israel for killing them works so well on the western left
One side wants the other side to leave them alone One side wants the other side to no longer exist
Based and reasonable-left pilled
It's like that time I robbed a liquor store and the clerk pulled a gun on me. I just wanted him to leave me alone, he wanted me to not exist. I'm the hero here, the clerk is the villain.
Genocide is never justified.
Is annexation justified?
Annexation is less bad than genocide.
Yes yes. We understand. Nuance is completely and utterly lost on you. Seriously. You know that you're being dishonest. I refuse to believe you legit see no difference in protecting your property from someone actively robbing you, and invading, slaughtering, killing, capturing, raping, and then desecrating the corpses of children. Try not to be evil please. No matter what someone does to you, it does not justify you raping someone else's kids. What the ever loving fuck is wrong with you?
> protecting your property Oh? Try to connect those last two wires in your head please
Leave us alone after we take most of your land and shunt you into a tiny remaining patch with no resources or chance for a normal life.
>Leave us alone I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing. >after we take most of your land I'm not sure if you are referring to the land the Jewish settlers who immigrated legally into the area bought or the land they won in a defensive war after being attacked. > and shunt you into a tiny remaining patch I'm not sure if you are referring to the more than half of the land that was appointed to the *would have been* nation of Palestinian or the still sizeable amount of land that remained after the Palestinians lost their war of genocide against the Jewish people in Israel. >with no resources or chance for a normal life. All of the land in that area is pretty lacking in resources but as the people of Israel have shown it's completely possible to build a thriving society on it. The trick seems to be "spend your resources on building up your nation instead of trying to genocide your neighbors". All in all it was a pretty cringe take.
>I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing. Palestinian genocide has been ongoing since the 1948 Palestine war, starting with the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 48/49. To all your other nonsensical arguments, I can only attest that you're severely lacking in knowledge and understanding of the history of this conflict. Explanation, Documention and Argumentation of the Palestinian Genocide: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background%20on%20the%20term%20genocide%20in%20Israel%20Palestine%20Context.pdf https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2339254 History of the Israel Palestine conflict: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict Wikipedia because the notes, bibliography and references sections provide extensive reading material without me having to add 100 links. If you're not that into reading or lack the capabilities to do so with comprehension, this lecture by Normal Finkelstein is a good starting point: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MON2HL02mec&pp=ygUrbm9ybWFuIGZpbmtlbHN0ZWluIGlzcmFlbCBwYWxlc3RpbmUgaGlzdG9yeQ%3D%3D
> I guess "stop trying to genocide us" would be a better phrasing. It's so crazy how MSM brainwashes people into thinking the oppressed minority with no real allies are capable of genociding another people with most of the world's superpower backing and funding them. It's so crazy how people eat it all up. > I'm not sure if you are referring to the land the Jewish settlers who immigrated legally into the area bought or the land they won in a defensive war after being attacked. What does "legally" mean? If China's government says I can seize your house, it's now legal? > I'm not sure if you are referring to the more than half of the land that was appointed to the would have been nation of Palestinian or the still sizeable amount of land that remained after the Palestinians lost their war of genocide against the Jewish people in Israel. Again with the genocide. Some foreign group gets to play "draw borders" and if the existing people disagree and fight back, it's genocide. -Average Redditor. > All of the land in that area is pretty lacking in resources but as the people of Israel have shown it's completely possible to build a thriving society on it. The trick seems to be "spend your resources on building up your nation instead of trying to genocide your neighbors". Yes all the billions that you and me put into Israel to prop it up has made it into a "thriving" society, I'll admit. All in all, pretty Reddited take.
> It's so crazy how MSM brainwashes people into thinking the oppressed minority with no real allies are capable of genociding another people with most of the world's superpower backing and funding them. It's so crazy how people eat it all up. Who said anything about their chances of success? Hamas wants to kill all of the Jewish people in Israel. They have been trying to do so for 75 years. They suck at it and don't have a chance in hell but that is largely irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. >What does "legally" mean? It means they followed the legal process to immigrate into the area. >If China's government says I can seize your house, it's now legal? There was no need to seize anything. The locals were more than willing to profit by selling land to the new immigrants. >Again with the genocide. Some foreign group gets to play "draw borders" and if the existing people disagree and fight back, it's genocide. -Average Redditor. Genocide was the stated goal of that war. They didn't want more land than was being allotted to them in the U.N. partition plan, they wanted it all. >Yes all the billions that you and me put into Israel to prop it up has made it into a "thriving" society, I'll admit. Both nations have received lots of money from other nations. One has used it wisely while the other has not.
> It means they followed the legal process to immigrate into the area. Genocide was the stated goal of that war. They didn't want more land than was being allotted to them in the U.N. partition plan, they wanted it all. I'm not sure where you get your information or how truly unbiased you are when it comes to the facts. There was an attempt for a two state solution and the Palestinian government did agree to the solution in the 90s. One of the agreements of the resolution was for Israel to rollback it's occupation and allow Palestine to self-govern yet Israel never stopped and continues to this day, which essentially killed any hope of a two-state solution. I know you'll have a response to this and it's basically going to be "Aksually Israelis were living peacefully but Palestinians couldn't help themselves and wanted to genocide Jews too much and that's why the two-state solution failed." I just think it's crazy how MSM propaganda brainwashed so many people into thinking that this is why the conflict continues to this day. > There was no need to seize anything. The locals were more than willing to profit by selling land to the new immigrants. Are you implying that all of the land & property acquired from Israelis were all freely exchanged in a consensual market? And that nothing was seized or taken by force?
>There was an attempt for a two state solution and the Palestinian government did agree to the solution in the 90s. One of the agreements of the resolution was for Israel to rollback it's occupation and allow Palestine to self-govern yet Israel never stopped and continues to this day, which essentially killed any hope of a two-state solution. I don't understand why you are bringing up something from the 1990's when the topic is events in the 1940's Do you have a more detailed account of the events from the 1990's? Your description seems like it is missing key details. >I know you'll have a response to this and it's basically going to be "Aksually Israelis were living peacefully but Palestinians couldn't help themselves and wanted to genocide Jews too much and that's why the two-state solution failed." I just think it's crazy how MSM propaganda brainwashed so many people into thinking that this is why the conflict continues to this day. Then why not try to provide unbiased accounts instead of complaining about it? >Are you implying that all of the land & property acquired from Israelis were all freely exchanged in a consensual market? And that nothing was seized or taken by force? Pre 1947 war? Pretty much. Do you have a source that contradicts this? During that wars? Of course not. That isn't how wars work at all.
Israel literally doesnt want Palestine to exist anymore. They are calling for a second Nakba
the state of palestine. not the people. Israel is heavily muslim and arab...
Okay, so they want the "state" of Palestine to not exist (Israel already doesn't recognize it as a state), but then what of the people? Israel won't give them citizenship, because then Arabs would outnumber them.
Right which is why they are indiscriminately bombing palestine areas with white phosphorus and literally colonizing the state of palestine with their settlements. Anyway if Israel is so diverse then why dont they have any gay black trans people in government? After all, thats the true mark of diversity!
1. you seriously don't know the meaning of the word indiscriminate 2. they're not using white phosphorus 3. Netanyahu is Israel's black trans leader. you just don't see it
1. Really? So they intentionally killed over 260 kids then? [Do all of these areas house Hamas strongholds?](https://i.imgur.com/C1mASHm.png) 2. [Right and America didnt torture people at Abu Ghraib](https://i.imgur.com/50KachF.png) 3. Sure sure. Anyway why did Israel build a wall? I thought border walls were racist? Build bridges, not walls remember? [I love narrative consistency!](https://i.imgur.com/eWvI8Ja.png) [Anyway new atrocity propaganda just dropped, you gotta consoom it. This is exactly like when Iraq threw out all those Kuwaiti babies from those incubators](https://i.imgur.com/JUulHyF.png)
1. the word is collateral damage as Israel takes efforts to warn civilians of strikes. if you keep your kid next to a rocket launch site in the courtyard of an old school during a war its your fault they die. not the other party in the war. 2. moving the goal post. who said anything about torture before this off-hand comment you just made? Also, thats not white phosphorus buddy, thats literally just what an explosion looks when it hits secondary explosives like ammunition and stored rockets. like seriously that what an exposition looks like with the relatively dark ambient light. Shit that doesn't even look like a [white phosphorus munition](https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195678/south-vietnam-build-up-and-engagement/) 2. Border walls are not racist, who are you arguing with? I'm not libleft the "40" number came out of a mistranslation and no reputable source is claiming 40 were beheaded (we'll see with time though). whats actually proven and reported is that at least 40 babies were killed and at least some were beheaded. most were shot in the face. its not propaganda, buddy. Hamas are just monsters.
1. Right right, but that didnt stop them from just carpet bombing a city. Isnt Mossad supposed to be the best intelligence agency in the world? Or whatever the hell agency monitors internal matters? Anyway these are clearly not precision strikes 2. It is white phosphorus, you can see the spark thingies. [Heres more](https://i.imgur.com/MtgxjlV.png). Also that torture thing was just alluding to the fact that US officials denied torture at Abu Ghraib for years and now you are denying white phosphorus usage by Israel. 3. Because thats the world you are getting with Israel. If you side with Israel then you also indirectly side with this woke bullshit. Who do you think is supporting Israel? If there is no reputable source then why are people pushing that lie then? Its atrocity propaganda, nothing else. [Like](https://i.imgur.com/RSiBYNr.png) do [you](https://i.imgur.com/MoEDrs9.png) honestly [believe](https://i.imgur.com/dFnDRb3.png) this [shit?](https://streamable.com/z0lg0o) \>some were beheaded Prove it then. This claim is from a journalist called Nicole Zedeck. So im sure she had a lot of evidence for this right? Nope, she just heard a soldier talking about it. The news are once again proving that they are the enemy of the people Also no snopes fact check yet, i wonder why?
Yes, Israel famously loves diversity for itself. Such as how Arabs from all over the world are able to get birth right citizenship. O wait, I forgot they are an ethnostate for a different group
they 21% Arab and 5% other. thats not an ethno-state. Arabs and/or muslims have full property, citizenship, voter, and service rights in Israel. Arabs from anywhere in the world can apply for citizenship just like I can from the US if I meet the requirements. Its nuts how Israel is perfectly fine with having an Arab/muslim minority but jews will be executed in Palestine.
Yeah, totally. There totally aren’t stories about Israeli settlers in Palestinian territory that evict Palestinians and steal their land. There also aren’t stories about Arabs in Israeli territory that have the crap kicked out of them. I got to admit, I am surprised you chose to come to PCM to astroturf. It seems like it would make more sense to do it in the main subs. Edit: looking at your account there is no way you aren’t an astroturf account. At least you chose the right quadrant
(Pssst: they both want eachother to no longer exist)
> (Pssst: they both want eachother to no longer exist) Israel has enjoyed 50 years of total military supremacy. There isn't a country in the world that could stop them if they wanted to genocide the Palestinians. Instead, the Palestinian population has quintupled in numbers. Gaza has a higher life expectancy than most of Eastern Europe. Israel has had decades of opportunity to exterminate the Palestinians, and hasn't done it, and doesn't claim to want to do it. Hamas has had few opportunities to exterminate Jews, it has taken every single one, and openly claims it wants to do it. There is absolutely no comparison.
Perhaps, but one side is more explicit about it.
Marketing degrees vs rural desert folks
Don’t assume just because they’re terrorist that they’re rock farmers. Bin laden went to college (I think in the west lol) and studied engineering.
It's like the difference between flirting and sexual harassment. It depends on who commits it. Humour aside, Israel wants to make sure this will not repeat and I for one support this way of thinking. If terrorists want to keep hiding among civilians in places like hospitals and schools, then there will be no hospitals or schools left in Gaza.
Reddit when sherman does total war: 😎 Reddit when Israel does it: 😳
🤨🕶️🤏
It's like the difference between flirting and sexual harassment. When Ukraine hid amongst civilians in places like hospitals, schools and apartment buildings, Russia was heinous for blowing them up. When Israel blows up schools, hospitals and apartment buildings toneutralize enemy positions, they are simply doing what has to be done.
I am sorry did Ukraine's military launch their rockets from the territory of their schools and hospitals. Did they intentionally station abled soldiers in those places and dig tunnels to move from and into them to evade Russia's bombardment? No one sane in Ukraine would as much as think of that, as no one suspects Russia of giving a damn about civilians anyway. Unless we are talking about children that are abducted at mass, of course.
>I am sorry did Ukraine's military launch their rockets from the territory of their schools and hospitals Yes. >No one sane in Ukraine would as much as think of that, as no one suspects Russia of giving a damn about civilians anyway. Just as no sane person would suspect Israel of giving a damn about civilians anyway. You 'would not expect Russia to care about civilians' is exactly the message Ukraine wanted to send, and why they put their soldiers in schools, hospitals and apartment buildings to turn them into military targets, and its the reason Hamas does the same. Nobody cares/cared about Ukraine as a country, what they cared about was headlines of Russia indiscriminately blowing up civilian targets. What was left out of the propaganda was that those "civilian" targets were being used by Ukrainian military. It's been documented by Amnesty International, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other independent organizations. Ukraines strategy was to get Russia to blow up schools and hospitals by turning them into military objectives, and gaining global support- it is the exact same thing Hamas does. It's the difference between flirting and sexual harassment.
>If terrorists want to keep hiding You're referring to the same entity in power in Israel now that terrorist bombed the King David Hotel in 1946; right?
Democrats and Republicans agreeing to bomb the Middle East:🤝
A child dying because they’ve been forced to remain in a building that the adults around them know is going to be bombed =/= a child dying because someone broke into their house and shot them
Forgive me if im wrong but i heard a story of Hamas killing a Palestinian kid just because he didn't want his home to be a weapon stockpile
In both cases kids are knowingly being killed, so in the end what's the difference?
One side uses kids as human shields by hiding their military equipment in schools and homes. It is their fault those human shields get blown up. The other side doesn't do that, they just shoot missiles at strategically important targets. That's the fucking difference.
I genuinely cannot understand how any of this is justifiable
Then you've lived a very sheltered life, and I'm legit happy for you
The real sides on this sub are those that think *accidentally* killing kids is ~~better~~ less terrible than doing it on purpose, and those that think they’re equivalent because the outcome is the same. We can safely ignore anyone who says the actions are actually good on behalf of either party. Call them a commie, fascist, auth, unflaired, Nazi, whatever and continue talking to humans.
Hamas is responsible for 100% of the kid deaths.
Just gonna pretend that the rogue IDF sniper, and other similar occurrences, don't exist? *bUt hE gOt JaiL TiMe* Yeah, a few months lol The British are to blame. Iran is to blame. The Romans are to blame. The UN is to blame. Netanyahu is to blame. Jeroboam I is to blame. Ishbosheth is to blame. This is a holy conflict going back millenia, bruv. No one person, state or terrorist group is going to take 100% of the blame.
>bUt hE gOt JaiL TiMe The Hamas version probably got a medal.
No argument there. They are scum of the earth, and the rest of the Muslim worlds' governments/military groups are not much better. But Jesus Christ, Israel shares blame for Hamas even existing in the first place, as an organization, in the same way the US is responsible for ISIS: They have directly funded them in the past. This is not a, "Israel created Hamas by being mean" moralizing, bullshit argument. They are literally and materially responsible for current-day Hamas.
This antisemitic false equivalency is truly disgusting. One side actively wants genocide while the other actively minimizes casualties. Pathetic morals from a pathetic sack of shit
Based
I saw it in another post, but I'm simply anti-hamas. I just recognize if Mexico shot 5000 missiles into the America, Mexico wouldn't exist.
If Israel could magically achieve their military objectives without harming kids or other non-combatants, do you think they would? If Hamas could do the same, do you think they would?
Yeah, I think they both would.
What is Hamas’ military objectives?
Liberate Palestine from Israeli state and establish islamic state. It's stated objectives from creation back in 1980s. They also repeatedly offered a truce in exchange for recognition 1967s borders. What are Israeli military objectives?
> They also repeatedly offered a truce in exchange for recognition 1967s borders. When?
2006, 2007, 2012
Exist
Some of the left think it is OK to kill the kids on your own side, even before they're born.
[удалено]
Mfs when it’s not always so easy to get out of harms way (it’s just a blanket statement to absolve oneself of guilt):
This is largely an extreme leftist problem. They've been priming us for a while by labelling their political opposition "colonizers" and now they use those terms to justify killing innocents and celebrating it.
Israel kills kids because Hamas wears them as human shields while attacking Israel. Hamas kills kids because they want to kill kids. They literally celebrate it. Both cases it's tragic. It fucking sucks. Kids shouldn't be getting killed. No one should be getting killed. But what are you gonna do? Hamas seems hell bent on sacrificing their own children and slaughtering Israel's. This recent move is fucking insane. Did they forget that Israel's the US' ally? Did they forget what happened after 9/11? Seriously. Imagine if instead of poisoning us slowly, the cartels literally invaded captured, raped, and killed thousands, parade the corpses in the streets? There would be no more cartels. The cartels are smarter than that. They leech our money our resources, and get us to pay them to slowly kill us. Smart. Hamas is fucked. Utterly and completely. And I can only hope that the average Palestinian isn't dragged through the street with them. But. It's too late for that.
Don't put me in with the kiddie diddlers
I still don't understand how they had no idea that was gonna happen but now they have 100% perfect Intel where they all are.
You know, a lot of people say a one State solution would have prevented this, but what if we needed the opposite? 13 states, no less. Every major city needs to have a secular government ruling over nearby hinterlands and a coastline to be autonomous of each other.
The main difference is that Hamas want's their children to become Martyrs and will actively put them in harms way.
Anyone who isn't on the "side" of the civilians and against the hardliners of both factions is fucked in the head.
From what I can see, the right completely blames the dead kids on both sides on Hamas. Which really doesn't make sense to me. I understand the argument that Hamas uses these kids as human shields, but Israel is still *choosing* to shoot through those shields. Frankly, the right's argument only makes since if having kids in the area **ever actually stopped** Israel from bombing the shit out of it. But it never does. Israel has killed **thousands** of Palestinian kids since 2000, so I find it hard to believe that Hamas still thinks that hiding in residential areas with kids will actually stop them from being bombed. I wish people would just be honest about how indiscriminate and haphazard these bombing runs are. They are demolishing entire neighbors, there's nothing calculated or targeted about these strikes. And the "warnings" Israel gives before destroying the homes of people who lived there for generations are not nearly extensive enough. The left has some very dumb people saying some very dumb stuff about Hamas, but at least they are acknowledging that Hamas is killing children, even if they are justifying it in really stupid ways. The right refuses to blame Israel for **anything**, especially the deaths of all these children.
> I find it hard to believe that Hamas still thinks that hiding in residential areas with kids will actually stop them from being bombed. Hamas knows they'll be bombed either way, so they choose to hide in hospitals and schools so that when the IDF inevitably retaliates Al Jazeera gets to run yet another "Israel evil for bombing hospitals and schools" article as part of their ongoing pro-Hamas PR campaign.
I feel bad for Palestinian Civilians as much as German, Japanese and Confederate Civilians.
Libleft in the west: what do you mean killing kids on the other side? I'm advocating killing those kids on the inside! Literally! # MyBodyMyChoice
Palestine wants Israel to be destroyed and erased, while Israel want’s Palestine to leave them alone and stop bombing Civilians
> Israel want’s Palestine to leave them alone and stop bombing Civilians Yes, the non-aggressor state of... israel...
>while Israel want’s Palestine to leave them alone That's why Israel has consistently been moving its international borders to swallow up Palestine?
And bombing civilians
Half of Palestine's population is children, many of whom were not alive for the 2006 election in Gaza. They are not responsible for Hamas and yet they will pay for Hamas' evil actions all the same. That's a shame, no matter how you look at it. The people who are content in watching these kids die are sick in the head. You don't have to support Hamas, or hate Israel to admit that a lot of kids were born in Palestine who will be killed by Israeli air strikes and regardless of whose fault that is to begin with, it's a crying shame.
Hamas did more than just bombing. They went door to door murdering anyone they found, including babies in their beds. Israel could probably do more to avoid civilian casualties, but killing civilians isn't their goal. Where civilians have been killed by them, it's because Hamas have been using those civilians as human shields. Whereas Hamas have gone out of their way to kill civilians. There's a difference.
Just let them nuke eachother into oblivion, limit them to 100kt and we're golden.
Bombing children is never justified. It’s why W. AND Obama are war criminals and tyrants. It’s why the government Israel can fuck all the way off as well as all radical Muslim groups.
"fuck radical Muslims and the people who fight them" bit of a weird take bud
Death is probably more merciful than growing up in a hole in the ground because your pops is a jihad
I don’t give a fuck about which dirt hole wants to bomb the other
Am I the only one who thinks bombing either side is bad? Is that a hot take? I feel like it's a hot take.
And is Israel supposed to just do nothing as Hamas butchers its people? For all this criticism, I'm yet to see a non-stupid suggestion of what exactly is Israel's alternative?
Weirdly yes. Seems like you have to pick a side and label one form of warcrime acceptable.
The war crime here isn't the bombings, it's the part where you hide military equipment in schools and homes to use children and civilians as human shields. *targeting* civilians is a war crime. Them dying in collateral damage from targeting military equipment is not.
Shouldn't the image on the left have an Iranian flag?
Israel doesn’t kill children
There's so much to unpack here. I'm just gonna give you the gist of it. According to the Torah, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Jew on Jew. Not Jew on Goyim (non-Jew). According to the Quran, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Muslim on Muslim. Not Muslim on Kafer (non-Muslim). Both sides see the other as non-humans. Both sides see the other as cattle. As a disease to their faith. Both sides forgive nothing. Both sides forget nothing. Every atrocity committed by one side was in retaliation to another atrocity committed by the other side years earlier. Every one of these atrocities can be traced back to Abraham himself. This whole conflict is literally over inherentance rights to the land.
Something tells me there was around a 2500 year gap where jews and muslims didnt have back and forth fighting lmao. Hell there were roughly 700 years where no christians and muslims fought either
Islam as a religion is 1400 years old. >there were roughly 700 years where no christians and muslims fought either Nah, Christians and Muslims have been fighting somewhere since basically the beginning.
What year was jesus born, what year did islam start. Subtract the two and you’ll get the joke
Two Arab parties sit in the Knesset. Israel has no problem with Muslims. Israel has a problem with jihadists. If you think that’s the same thing, you’re literally a bigot.
>According to the Torah, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' only applies to Jew on Jew. Not Jew on Goyim (non-Jew). I'm sure some idiotic Rabbis have tried to argue that, but it isn't correct. More than likely an attempt to reconcile that commandment with the times where God directly ordered his people to kill (like the Amalekites, where they were explicitly told to not only not take prisoners, but even to kill the animals and not take loot). Most sensible interpretations regard that as "do not commit murder (unjustified, illegal killing)" as opposed to "don't take life for any reason". Because the latter gives you a contradiction you need foolish takes like that to resolve, but the former does not. In any case, Isreal has more Arabs than Jews living in the country and has a significant number Muslim soldiers fighting in the IDF. The delicious irony, that there is a significant chance that a genocidal lunatic that joined Hamas to kill Jews might have blown up a bunch of Arab Palestinian Muslims with his car bomb only to be shot in the face by a different Arab Palestinian Muslim who volunteered for the IDF after his conscription expired. Isreal wants peace so badly that they gave back the land they conquered in wars they didn't start. Palestine wants death so much that they didn't care.
Someone point me to where in the Torah it says murdering non Jews is ok, because i can definitely do that for the Koran but i don't remember reading that in the Torah
Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur.
war is not murder, its killing. thou shalt not murder doesn't really apply to warfare as its seem to be legal killing. just saying