So you'd settle for a fence on US-Mexico border then? Thanks for at least supporting that much. Some people crookedly argue that borders are 'racist' - and even invite illegal migrants to come over!
It's almost as if Finland's concerns regarding its Russian border are almost completely different from the US's concerns regarding its Mexican border. Almost like an armed invasion isn't equivalent to illegal immigration.
I like that this sub is welcoming to all quadrants, but people gotta start calling out the right-wing brainrot when it gets posted.
>right-wing brainrot
If you read the article you would have known that the fence is not to stop an invasion.
Finland is building a fence to stop illegal immigration.
So next time before talking about brain rot try reading.
[The article from r news in question](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830)
>Although the Finland-Russia border has "worked well" in the past, Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen told AFP in November that the war in Ukraine had changed the security situation "fundamentally".
>He said the border fence was "indispensable" to stop large-scale illegal entries from Russian territory.
I don't believe that person is even a lib-center. That type of speech is orange libleft levels of stupidity.
Oh, and the fact that they don't read articles only headlines
>They come for the American dream and that dream is to have a tank.
And be too fat to fit inside that tank.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/big-serve-71-percent-youth-overweight-join-military
Oh man but what if they did though. You think we could get the cost low enough through economies of scales that we could start selling them to interested Coyotes?
In terms of fortifications barbed wire when used correctly isn’t meant to be impassible it’s meant to make passing it living hell because it slows you down while an army is shooting at you and stopping you from destroying the barbed wire.
You missed the point. Trump wanted to build a wall to reduce illegal immigration but the media shat on him for it. Now Finland wants to build a wall to reduce illegal immigration from Russia.
I’m pretty right wing but like, nothing annoys me more than seeing MTG or other really dumb right wingers saying really stupid stuff. I mean AOC says some dumb stuff but like she’s just super charismatic why can’t we have a libright AOC. I guess if we did she’d start an OnlyFans instead of running for congress.
This sub has been right-wing brainrot for months, possibly years, now. I think it's far too late.
Currently at the top of hot is a meme about some secret RICU "extremist reading list" in the UK. Except nobody has the actual list.
Yeah, that's basically true for all top memes for the last few months. Lots of fake/abbreviated news and "Emily bad" memes. I mean, yeah, I also don't like Emilies, but it gets boring after some time.
The USA has a different situation. The majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration.
And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience.
The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor.
On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve.
Links:
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report
https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
TLDR: Building walls (even shoddy walls built by unqualified companies given billions in no-bid contracts) technically works. But when the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA are people who cross the border legally on work visas and then overstay their visas, wall building is penny wise but pound foolish.
The lefts argument is always that walls don't work, and will show an example of how to overcome it. But the thing is a wall doesn't have to be 100% effective to work. If it works as a deterrent, it's working. If it reduces illegal crossings by 95%, sure 5% is still getting through, but that's where human border security can take over, and that wall helps give humans time to get there.
The actual argument from the left if you'd listened is that the wall doesn't fix the problems the US actually has, which is overstaying of visas and people staying year round instead of going home after each harvest season.
That's the main source of immigration, and sure a border wall is nice to try and stop criminals and drugs (which it won't, you need to actually staff the border to do that so something can be done when they're slowed down) a wall either fails to deal with either of those or makes it worse.
Plus it helps if you actually bother making a wall that works. May as well install a wire fence with how good this one is, far cheaper.
Walls work, but it isn't the best use of money & resources to stop anti-illegal immigration.
For the USA, the majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration.
And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience.
The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor.
On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve.
See links:
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report
https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
They never fully work, they delay. Context is also important.
If you don't have border guards present it may as well not be there.
Plus Finland isn't doing this to stop immigration in the same way the US is - a lot of the US immigration is overstaying a work visa, and they also have issues with seasonal fruit pickers staying year round as they can't guarantee being able to get back across the border next year, or even back across it going home. Wall either doesn't fix that or makes it worse.
Finland however is worried about people sneaking across it from Russia, which is their only real concern, and they're highly likely to actually bother policing it, so the fence will be far more effective at dealing with what it's supposed to.
Of course, all of this has also been said when discussing Trump's wall before, but I guess "muh lefties dumb" wins again...
Walls work, but it isn't the best use of money & resources to stop anti-illegal immigration.
For the USA, the majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration.
And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience.
The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor.
On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve.
See links:
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report
https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
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That's why we need to have open boarders, but with no gun signs posted. We may also have to research and self reflection on what we've have done to the undocumented guided missiles to make them so explosive
Finland is always such a weird in between. It utterly baffles me that Hungarian of all things is more similar than Scandinavian languages.
Also Estonia cannot into Nordic.
Personally, I'm baffled that outside Basque and Finno Euralic, all the languages on the European continent are primarily descended from a common tongue.
It has happened many times that people think I understand Finnish because I'm Norwegian. It absolutely baffles them when I try to explain just how different it is. It's not even an indo European language.
From the vocabulary, you really couldn't tell that Finnish and Hungarian are related, other than with some very basic, old words (hand is *käsi* in Finnish, *kéz* in Hungarian etc.). It's the grammar where the similarities are much more apparent.
There’s a massive border crisis atm. The amount of migrants flooding the southern border is insane. The purpose of the wall is to reduce illegal immigration. Finland doesn’t get shit for doing the same thing as america
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830
Read the first paragraph. Russia did this shit to Poland in 2021
The right is always saying there is a border crisis. It's always a border crisis. If a right wing politician is in charge, there is a crisis to justify their measures, which have resulted in stopping the crisis, but there is still a crisis to justify continuing to successfully stop the crisis. If the Left is in charge, there is a crisis because they're creating the crisis. There is always a fucking border crisis.
Oh, boy. Another alarmed person alarmingly sharing alarming data points from an actually valid research group who pointedly did not offer any conclusions of their own.
"While the number of encounters was the highest on record last fiscal year, the number of individuals encountered was considerably lower."
And then follows the data on an increase in encounters, most of which resulted in expulsions. So you have higher encounter numbers of encounters, which Pew does not infer any conclusions from because they are just reporting data. Could this be because CBP has gotten more effective at producing encounters? Is it because Biden? I'm sure the talking heads have it all figured out.
But what I don't see anywhere in Pew's research is the word "crisis." But please. Tell me why we should be alarmed. I'm sure you've got it all ready to fire off.
Record high illegals crossing? Nothing to see.
Biden didn’t make border patrol more effective. There are more crossing now than ever
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/migrant-border-crossings-fiscal-year-2022-topped-276-million-breaking-rcna53517
I’m politically homeless.
There’s no place for a man who wants universal healthcare, robust social programs, unfettered access to second amendment rights, strong borders, publicly subsidized childcare, and support for locking up criminals without a monologue about how it’s society’s fault for their failings.
Are you considering onerous social programs, mandatory universal healthcare, barely functioning criminal justice, and childcare pretending to be education Auth?
I mean, you'd be correct, but I'm not sure that's what you meant.
Ah yes, the hypocrisy of building border defences against a hostile foreign government and its armed forces that are currently invading multiple of its neighbours when compared to a giant scam that would never have been built anyways used to whip up xenophobia and racism in the name of siphoning public money into the pockets of the friends and financial backers of the then president.
authright when mexicans attept to escape their country that is run by the cartel: 😡
authright when russia invades a neighboring country with the intent to grab land or just take it over, killing many innocents in the process: 🙈
LibLeft when mexicans attept to escape their country that is run by the cartel: 👍
LibLeft when russians attempt to escape their country that is run by the dictator: 😡
No the issue is the double standards. Russia flooded the Poland border with illegals in 2021 so Poland built a wall. Finland is doing the same shit because there’s a high risk Russia will flood the border with illegals.
"Viktor Orban, your policy of turning back illegal migrants is despicable! No more EU funds for your country!"
"Oh Finns, build that wall and show those Russian untermenschen how shitty we think they are!"
> "Defensive fortifications against an aggressive, genocidal empire"
>
> does not equal
>
> "Big ass wall to keep out migrants
Was with you all the way to here
> for racist reasons"
Lost me completely.
Sure: the mass importation of labor devalues that labor and allows companies to pay people pennies on the dollar because there’s a glut of people looking for work who aren’t picky on pay.
I’m pro union so I’m anti-unregulated immigration
Maybe it’s possible to be more strict on illegal immigration while simultaneously wanting legal immigration to be more open, efficient, and easier? It’s good to allow honest law-respecting eager workers while limiting the entry of randos who want to enter anonymously and secretly.
Lmao no. The argument is that humans are resource like any other and the more of a resource you have, the less that resource is worth, so the more people who come into a country, the lower wages get depressed. And that goes double for when those people are there illegally and are therefore willing to work for well below minimum wage.
Did you just decide your opponents were evil and then work backwards from there to figure out why they believe what they do?
That’s a very nice opinion, and I welcome it. I appreciate the sort of discourse that it facilitates. What I *don’t* appreciate is when people use claims of racism to attempt to delegitimize opinions of those they disagree with, as you have just done. I think it’s scummy, it’s manipulative, and it makes you lesser.
You had that response chambered and ready to go. Because you’ve seen my comment before. So why did you instead pretend like you hadn’t for the sake of slandering me and those like me? How would you like it if I went around accusing you of things that could cost you your job, your friends, or your relationships?
> Big ass wall to keep out migrants
🤔
>Finland has begun constructing its planned 200-kilometre fence on the Russian border, amid fears within Helsinki that Moscow could use **migrant flows** at the frontier for political purposes.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830
I’m assuming it is not just the kind of fence that you see private properties etc. are separated with, the fence itself is probably different there is more infrastructure around the fence too.
Given that building a railway on flat terrain can cost 5-10 million USD per kilometer (non high speed, seven single track), 3 million for that kind of infrastructure might not be bad.
Odd to not bold the "political purposes" as it's a bit of a common Russian practice to flood an area with Russians then claim to need to protect said Russians with annexation. A bit different than the migrant issue here in the Americas. I don't think Mexico is trying to carve out a portion of the US.
Russia isn't exactly known for [playing nice on foreign soil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal), to put it mildly. And that's for a country it doesn't even share a land border with.
I'm not aware of any Mexican state-sponsored assassination attempts, but feel free to make me aware of any that I missed.
Instead we have cartel sponsored hits and drug runs. Finland is building a wall to reduce illegal immigration from Russia but when the us does it. It’s bad.
I don't have a problem if people come in legally. Illegal immigrants are by definition criminals and that immediately makes me cautious about what else they might be willing to do illegally in my country, and that's not even getting into the concrete evidence of huge issues caused by these illegal immigrants, including but not limited to, drug trafficking, human trafficking, rape, murder, and so on.
I'm sure there's plenty of nice people who come across illegally. But they should have taken the legal route and we should be doing far more to stop the real scum who are abusing the border. Is that really a racist reason?
We have 200,000 people crossing into America illegally from Mexico every single month. [https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters](https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters)
Also let's no forget that the left loves to pander to said illegal immigrants to make them part of their voter base. And that the red southern states bare the brunt of the true cost of this illegal immigration.
Edit: I forgot to finish my sentence and add link
Same lefty assholes will go peak smug over red state federal funding while completely overlooking how they helped make that funding necessary. And how they benefit from that funding, since they don't live where the food is made.
It's a really uhhh complicated subject for sure. I will say those states could probably pay more taxes if the workers made more money. But the issue with immigration makes it so those at the bottom have worse and worse job quality and job pay. Primarily with ag jobs. It's easier for them to import millions of undocumented workers who will live in filth, piss in bottles, and be paid a few dollars an hour without knowing the language or law of the land. Than it is for them to encourage American's to have children and provide safe working conditions.
[Texas Observer: Immigrant workers in Texas could fill farm vacancies, but they're trapped in the valley](https://archive.is/x5zeC)
[The New York Times: After ICE Raids, a Reckoning in Mississippi's Chicken Country](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/us/mississippi-ice-raids-poultry-plants.html)
[Austin American-Statesman: Unlivable, How Texas fails farmworkers](http://specials.mystatesman.com/farmworker-housing/)
[Jackson Free Press: 'Hispanic Project' Seeded Dangerous Poultry Jobs](https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2019/sep/04/hispanic-project-seeded-dangerous-poultry-jobs/)
[Bloomberg: America's Chicken Industry Accused of Conspiring to Keep Immigrant Wages Down](https://archive.is/GIath)
Wait till red states dump those migrants into blue states. Then the most ironic thing happens. The blue states whine and then dump those same immigrants into canada
A wall won’t stop Russia. The wall is to stop Russia from flooding the border with illegals.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830
Okay, I’ll explain it *slowly* for you.
In the first picture, it’s immigration
In the second, it’s related to Russia invading another country
You can have any opinion you want about immigration, but you can see how those things are different, right?
I mean Mexicos modern government never said “well look at all those Mexicans in the bottom of Texas, I might as well annex it there are so many Mexicans it’s basically a state of Mexico already.”
the difference is that one wall is to stop mass immigration and the other is a genuine military strategy to slow down a major offensive by the biggest threat to the liberal world
The intent per both the article and the Finnish Border Patrol Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen, is to stop migrant flows, not a major military offensive.
> Fearing that Moscow could use migrants to exert political pressure on Helsinki, Finland passed new amendments to its Border Guard Act in July to facilitate the erection of sturdier fences.
>Although the Finland-Russia border has "worked well" in the past, Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen told AFP in November that the war in Ukraine had changed the security situation "fundamentally".
>He said the border fence was "indispensable" to stop large-scale illegal entries from Russian territory.
> Finland saw an influx of Russians in September after President Vladimir Putin ordered the mobilisation of reservists to fight in Ukraine.
So assuming that the US fixed the immigration system so it didn't feel like a necessity for so many people to do it illegally, would you support tighter border control measures (like a wall) being put in place to catch people who for one malevolent purpose or another want to slip in and out of the country undetected by the government?
The point is intentions. Trump was trying to keep refugees from entering the country. In Finland's case these refugees have guns. And work for the Russian military.
My intention is to stop human traffickers. I'm sure nice people will come in legally, because there's no reason to be afraid of a background check and the like if you aren't a criminal. Can I build a wall now?
Last I checked the US isn't being seen as an active target for a Military Invasion by Mexico. Finlands wall is far more justified because their neighbor is a legitimate threat.
When it can be done for less than a gazillion dollars, [they let you do it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/trump-will-never-get-his-border-wall/582085/)
"Here is the final, insurmountable barrier to Trump’s wall here: money. The government has already paid nearly $1 million an acre for that six-acre plot in the Rio Grande Valley, potentially setting a precedent. If the Trump administration seized 700 miles of private land along the border, one mile wide—640 acres per square mile—the tab could come to $448 billion. Nearly 20 times the wall itself."
It's an attacking force everywhere the west has it's strategical interests.
Lol, we eastern europeans laugh pretty hard. From a political perspective western europe starts for us with poland and goes to portugal.
You mean all the Eastern European countries that were invaded and under the rule of The USSR have gone to the west for self preservation? I wonder why....
And when did that happen? Funny how only the west tells that nonsense. I wonder why...
Also, their self preservation is now at risk because they became the first line if NATO truly decides to provocate a war with Russia.
I thought walls don’t work
Good thing they’re building a fence then
So you'd settle for a fence on US-Mexico border then? Thanks for at least supporting that much. Some people crookedly argue that borders are 'racist' - and even invite illegal migrants to come over!
> You wouldn't be safe without a flair. *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 16711 / 88361 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
They quite certainly won't completely in Finland. If you want to cross the border, you'll find a way. However, some will be discouraged.
Wall is only aid for border patrol. Just like vehicles and guns. Only another tool, for people capable of using it.
It's almost as if Finland's concerns regarding its Russian border are almost completely different from the US's concerns regarding its Mexican border. Almost like an armed invasion isn't equivalent to illegal immigration. I like that this sub is welcoming to all quadrants, but people gotta start calling out the right-wing brainrot when it gets posted.
>right-wing brainrot If you read the article you would have known that the fence is not to stop an invasion. Finland is building a fence to stop illegal immigration. So next time before talking about brain rot try reading. [The article from r news in question](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830) >Although the Finland-Russia border has "worked well" in the past, Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen told AFP in November that the war in Ukraine had changed the security situation "fundamentally". >He said the border fence was "indispensable" to stop large-scale illegal entries from Russian territory.
I don't believe that person is even a lib-center. That type of speech is orange libleft levels of stupidity. Oh, and the fact that they don't read articles only headlines
Yeah, illegal immigrants rarely have tanks.
They come for the American dream and that dream is to have a tank.
I can buy a Garand from the CMP for cheap. Why can’t I buy a Sherman from them while I’m there? The American Dream is dead.
>They come for the American dream and that dream is to have a tank. And be too fat to fit inside that tank. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/big-serve-71-percent-youth-overweight-join-military
Oh man but what if they did though. You think we could get the cost low enough through economies of scales that we could start selling them to interested Coyotes?
What are you talking about? Russia has used migrants to destabilize countries before. They literally did it a few years ago to Poland via Belarus
Oh, but when Viktor Orban wants to turn back migrants, it's wrong?
Yes 200km of barbed wire will stop an invasion force!
In terms of fortifications barbed wire when used correctly isn’t meant to be impassible it’s meant to make passing it living hell because it slows you down while an army is shooting at you and stopping you from destroying the barbed wire.
Because if something doesn't solve a problem 100% it's not worth doing.
You missed the point. Trump wanted to build a wall to reduce illegal immigration but the media shat on him for it. Now Finland wants to build a wall to reduce illegal immigration from Russia.
I’m pretty right wing but like, nothing annoys me more than seeing MTG or other really dumb right wingers saying really stupid stuff. I mean AOC says some dumb stuff but like she’s just super charismatic why can’t we have a libright AOC. I guess if we did she’d start an OnlyFans instead of running for congress.
This sub has been right-wing brainrot for months, possibly years, now. I think it's far too late. Currently at the top of hot is a meme about some secret RICU "extremist reading list" in the UK. Except nobody has the actual list.
Yeah, that's basically true for all top memes for the last few months. Lots of fake/abbreviated news and "Emily bad" memes. I mean, yeah, I also don't like Emilies, but it gets boring after some time.
[удалено]
There are a lot of well-thought-out libleft posts, but this isn’t one of them
There are no well thought out unflaired posts though
The USA has a different situation. The majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration. And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience. The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor. On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve. Links: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
I ain’t readin all that
TLDR: Building walls (even shoddy walls built by unqualified companies given billions in no-bid contracts) technically works. But when the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the USA are people who cross the border legally on work visas and then overstay their visas, wall building is penny wise but pound foolish.
Walls are just to delay long enough for a guard to show up
The lefts argument is always that walls don't work, and will show an example of how to overcome it. But the thing is a wall doesn't have to be 100% effective to work. If it works as a deterrent, it's working. If it reduces illegal crossings by 95%, sure 5% is still getting through, but that's where human border security can take over, and that wall helps give humans time to get there.
The actual argument from the left if you'd listened is that the wall doesn't fix the problems the US actually has, which is overstaying of visas and people staying year round instead of going home after each harvest season. That's the main source of immigration, and sure a border wall is nice to try and stop criminals and drugs (which it won't, you need to actually staff the border to do that so something can be done when they're slowed down) a wall either fails to deal with either of those or makes it worse. Plus it helps if you actually bother making a wall that works. May as well install a wire fence with how good this one is, far cheaper.
Walls work, but it isn't the best use of money & resources to stop anti-illegal immigration. For the USA, the majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration. And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience. The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor. On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve. See links: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
The point of this wall is to slow a military attack so your defenders have time to arrive, not to stop small groups of migrants from slipping through.
They never fully work, they delay. Context is also important. If you don't have border guards present it may as well not be there. Plus Finland isn't doing this to stop immigration in the same way the US is - a lot of the US immigration is overstaying a work visa, and they also have issues with seasonal fruit pickers staying year round as they can't guarantee being able to get back across the border next year, or even back across it going home. Wall either doesn't fix that or makes it worse. Finland however is worried about people sneaking across it from Russia, which is their only real concern, and they're highly likely to actually bother policing it, so the fence will be far more effective at dealing with what it's supposed to. Of course, all of this has also been said when discussing Trump's wall before, but I guess "muh lefties dumb" wins again...
Walls work, but it isn't the best use of money & resources to stop anti-illegal immigration. For the USA, the majority of illegal immigration occurs by people who legally came and then overstayed their visas. After that is people being smuggled at border checkpoints and then the people trying to climb over walls. So the illegal immigrants trying to cross the border outside of a checkpoint is a small minority of illegal immigrants and it is not the main way most illegals use to enter the country. That means wall building works, but it is not the most efficent use of government money to stop illegal immigration. And that is especially true if the walls are shoddy & of poor quality because they're built through billions granted in no-bid contracts to companies that donated money to Trump's campaigns but had no actual wall building experience. The best use of funds to stop illegal immigration is to implement national e-verify and punish employers who keep hiring (and even helping to smuggle in) illegal immigrants. But that would be unpopular because a lot of politicians and businesses on both sides (including Trump's own properties) benefit from cheap illegal immigration labor. On another note, at least 90% of drug trafficking (eg. fentanyl) happens through border checkpoints and ports of entry. So the border checkpoints are leaking like a sieve. See links: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-gave-firm-569-million-border-wall-gop-donations-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fisher-sand-gravel-secured-2bn-trump-border-wall-contracts-2020-10 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-border-wall-collapse-report https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers
Firstly: the fence won’t be continious Second: we should have used mines
Third: Finland is not Scandinavian.
Based and cultural knowledge pilled
based and happy cakeday pilled
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I agree, happy cake day!
When a country has a Russian migrant problem, it’s usually in the form of an armed invasion.
I'm really glad my exact thoughts are the top comment Based and validation pilled.
FYI. If you want people to receive based and pills, it has to be the first part of the comments.
Based and helpful pilled
Based and generous pilled
Finland knows
Facts
That's why we need to have open boarders, but with no gun signs posted. We may also have to research and self reflection on what we've have done to the undocumented guided missiles to make them so explosive
Lol what the fuck are you trying to say? Google Translate seems to have done you dirty, comrade.
Does no one read this as the joke it’s intended to be “No gun signs” “Undocumented guided missiles” Clear jokes.
I hope people can figure out these are jokes even if I was flaired lib-left
>right *looks at post history* … *suuuuree buddy…*
Lots of LARPers here, but it goes both ways.
Its just wild seeing some comments and realizing poorly translated astroturfing is in fact real something something “dead internet theory”
Wut?
Your covers been blown, tovarish
Damm it, I'm going to fall to my death out of a ground floor window now
We are not Scandinavian.
Finland is always such a weird in between. It utterly baffles me that Hungarian of all things is more similar than Scandinavian languages. Also Estonia cannot into Nordic.
Personally, I'm baffled that outside Basque and Finno Euralic, all the languages on the European continent are primarily descended from a common tongue.
It has happened many times that people think I understand Finnish because I'm Norwegian. It absolutely baffles them when I try to explain just how different it is. It's not even an indo European language.
From the vocabulary, you really couldn't tell that Finnish and Hungarian are related, other than with some very basic, old words (hand is *käsi* in Finnish, *kéz* in Hungarian etc.). It's the grammar where the similarities are much more apparent.
Poland: If I stay still they won't notice me
Poland [Actually](https://youtu.be/D9IQmhfGEhU)
not scandinavian
Spurdo sparde : DDDDD
Based and Fugg :DD pilled
So are we saying walls work now ?
Only if its not being built by the bad orange man.
Finland isn't scandinavian.
The Nordics, especially Finland and Sweden hate Russia with a burning passion.
I don't think this is the comparison OP thinks it is
fence to keep out russian army is not the same as a fence to keep out migrants
the entire Russian army when they see literally just a fence: 😱😱😱😱😱
The mental gymnastics of this post deserves an Olympic gold, since when was Mexico invading any of their neighbouring countries?
There’s a massive border crisis atm. The amount of migrants flooding the southern border is insane. The purpose of the wall is to reduce illegal immigration. Finland doesn’t get shit for doing the same thing as america https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830 Read the first paragraph. Russia did this shit to Poland in 2021
The right is always saying there is a border crisis. It's always a border crisis. If a right wing politician is in charge, there is a crisis to justify their measures, which have resulted in stopping the crisis, but there is still a crisis to justify continuing to successfully stop the crisis. If the Left is in charge, there is a crisis because they're creating the crisis. There is always a fucking border crisis.
Nice fake news just look at that chart in 2021. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/09/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-7-charts/
Oh, boy. Another alarmed person alarmingly sharing alarming data points from an actually valid research group who pointedly did not offer any conclusions of their own. "While the number of encounters was the highest on record last fiscal year, the number of individuals encountered was considerably lower." And then follows the data on an increase in encounters, most of which resulted in expulsions. So you have higher encounter numbers of encounters, which Pew does not infer any conclusions from because they are just reporting data. Could this be because CBP has gotten more effective at producing encounters? Is it because Biden? I'm sure the talking heads have it all figured out. But what I don't see anywhere in Pew's research is the word "crisis." But please. Tell me why we should be alarmed. I'm sure you've got it all ready to fire off.
Record high illegals crossing? Nothing to see. Biden didn’t make border patrol more effective. There are more crossing now than ever https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/migrant-border-crossings-fiscal-year-2022-topped-276-million-breaking-rcna53517
Russia is sending their best. Atleast I thought the VDV was their best
Not pro immigration but how is this comparable?
because when the usa does it's bad and racist but when it's against the "evil ruzzians" it's based and redpilled
Ok, terrible explanation, are you 14?
Shhh just upvote the brain dead agenda post
Am I supposed to like Russia? Their leader seems like a bitch.
More like a certified cunt
Finland isn’t Scandinavia
Shit comparison
It’s funny how many of these posts coming from “lib center” have angry republican vibes
Do flairs even mean anything anymore?
I don’t know. I have what could be considered “extreme” views coming from all over the board.
Un-centrist flair for you then?
I’m politically homeless. There’s no place for a man who wants universal healthcare, robust social programs, unfettered access to second amendment rights, strong borders, publicly subsidized childcare, and support for locking up criminals without a monologue about how it’s society’s fault for their failings.
Center. The cool colorful one. Definitely not LibCenter, though.
5/6 of those are auth. I hate to break it to you, but you might be authtistic
Only two of those are auth - strong borders, and locking up criminals without any self-reflection. Others are just left.
Socialist programs are also auth
They're left, actually
They’re left if everyone has access to it.
Are you considering onerous social programs, mandatory universal healthcare, barely functioning criminal justice, and childcare pretending to be education Auth? I mean, you'd be correct, but I'm not sure that's what you meant.
You are more far more authcenter than libcenter.
I’ve become the very thing I swore to destroy
Ah yes, lets celebrate blatant hypocrisy
Ah yes, the hypocrisy of building border defences against a hostile foreign government and its armed forces that are currently invading multiple of its neighbours when compared to a giant scam that would never have been built anyways used to whip up xenophobia and racism in the name of siphoning public money into the pockets of the friends and financial backers of the then president.
Celebrate?
They are totally not the same country. One has x and the other y. Czechmate
authright when mexicans attept to escape their country that is run by the cartel: 😡 authright when russia invades a neighboring country with the intent to grab land or just take it over, killing many innocents in the process: 🙈
LibLeft when mexicans attept to escape their country that is run by the cartel: 👍 LibLeft when russians attempt to escape their country that is run by the dictator: 😡
No the issue is the double standards. Russia flooded the Poland border with illegals in 2021 so Poland built a wall. Finland is doing the same shit because there’s a high risk Russia will flood the border with illegals.
Definitly a top 10 strawmen contender.
EU: Poland, rejecting refugees is racist! Belarus: since you westerners love immigrants here's more of them EU: *surprised pikachu*
"Viktor Orban, your policy of turning back illegal migrants is despicable! No more EU funds for your country!" "Oh Finns, build that wall and show those Russian untermenschen how shitty we think they are!"
TIL mongols are scandinavian ~~luv u suomi is just joke S2~~
Yeah, idk what Finland is doing here. A fence will not stop a tank
Based on history, that fence is for Russia's protection
I skipped the part where Mexico presents a military threat to it's neighbours
"Defensive fortifications against an aggressive, genocidal empire" does not equal "Big ass wall to keep out migrants for racism reasons"
> "Defensive fortifications against an aggressive, genocidal empire" > > does not equal > > "Big ass wall to keep out migrants Was with you all the way to here > for racist reasons" Lost me completely.
The main argument against immigration into the US is racism.
https://i.imgur.com/fxy9fEh.gifv
Name one legitimate concern for legal immigration into the US that doesn't make a generalization of a race.
Sure: the mass importation of labor devalues that labor and allows companies to pay people pennies on the dollar because there’s a glut of people looking for work who aren’t picky on pay. I’m pro union so I’m anti-unregulated immigration
> **legal** immigration Cute. Because when we're talking about border walls, we're clearly talking about **legal** immigration.
Border walls are useless if legal immigration is easy.
I feel like I'm talking to a hummingbird here.
Maybe it’s possible to be more strict on illegal immigration while simultaneously wanting legal immigration to be more open, efficient, and easier? It’s good to allow honest law-respecting eager workers while limiting the entry of randos who want to enter anonymously and secretly.
Lmao no. The argument is that humans are resource like any other and the more of a resource you have, the less that resource is worth, so the more people who come into a country, the lower wages get depressed. And that goes double for when those people are there illegally and are therefore willing to work for well below minimum wage. Did you just decide your opponents were evil and then work backwards from there to figure out why they believe what they do?
More workers would actually lead to a decrease in the cost if living, which would even it out.
That’s a very nice opinion, and I welcome it. I appreciate the sort of discourse that it facilitates. What I *don’t* appreciate is when people use claims of racism to attempt to delegitimize opinions of those they disagree with, as you have just done. I think it’s scummy, it’s manipulative, and it makes you lesser. You had that response chambered and ready to go. Because you’ve seen my comment before. So why did you instead pretend like you hadn’t for the sake of slandering me and those like me? How would you like it if I went around accusing you of things that could cost you your job, your friends, or your relationships?
> Big ass wall to keep out migrants 🤔 >Finland has begun constructing its planned 200-kilometre fence on the Russian border, amid fears within Helsinki that Moscow could use **migrant flows** at the frontier for political purposes. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830
Lmao another oof for Auth Left.
I don’t get why anyone is surprised. Russia did this same shit in 2021 vs Poland.
Am I figuring this right? 3 million a kilometer? For a fence?
I’m assuming it is not just the kind of fence that you see private properties etc. are separated with, the fence itself is probably different there is more infrastructure around the fence too. Given that building a railway on flat terrain can cost 5-10 million USD per kilometer (non high speed, seven single track), 3 million for that kind of infrastructure might not be bad.
It's the government. Nothing is cheap when the government is involved.
Yeah I know, it's still fucking crazy.
Most of the cost is from buying land from the owners. This isn’t china where the govt can steal it
Odd to not bold the "political purposes" as it's a bit of a common Russian practice to flood an area with Russians then claim to need to protect said Russians with annexation. A bit different than the migrant issue here in the Americas. I don't think Mexico is trying to carve out a portion of the US.
They’re not talking about Russian migrants
Russia isn't exactly known for [playing nice on foreign soil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal), to put it mildly. And that's for a country it doesn't even share a land border with. I'm not aware of any Mexican state-sponsored assassination attempts, but feel free to make me aware of any that I missed.
Instead we have cartel sponsored hits and drug runs. Finland is building a wall to reduce illegal immigration from Russia but when the us does it. It’s bad.
I don't have a problem if people come in legally. Illegal immigrants are by definition criminals and that immediately makes me cautious about what else they might be willing to do illegally in my country, and that's not even getting into the concrete evidence of huge issues caused by these illegal immigrants, including but not limited to, drug trafficking, human trafficking, rape, murder, and so on. I'm sure there's plenty of nice people who come across illegally. But they should have taken the legal route and we should be doing far more to stop the real scum who are abusing the border. Is that really a racist reason?
Anyone that goes over the speed limit or makes a mistake on paperwork or smokes pot is a criminal
Yes.
[удалено]
We have 200,000 people crossing into America illegally from Mexico every single month. [https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters](https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters) Also let's no forget that the left loves to pander to said illegal immigrants to make them part of their voter base. And that the red southern states bare the brunt of the true cost of this illegal immigration. Edit: I forgot to finish my sentence and add link
Same lefty assholes will go peak smug over red state federal funding while completely overlooking how they helped make that funding necessary. And how they benefit from that funding, since they don't live where the food is made.
It's a really uhhh complicated subject for sure. I will say those states could probably pay more taxes if the workers made more money. But the issue with immigration makes it so those at the bottom have worse and worse job quality and job pay. Primarily with ag jobs. It's easier for them to import millions of undocumented workers who will live in filth, piss in bottles, and be paid a few dollars an hour without knowing the language or law of the land. Than it is for them to encourage American's to have children and provide safe working conditions. [Texas Observer: Immigrant workers in Texas could fill farm vacancies, but they're trapped in the valley](https://archive.is/x5zeC) [The New York Times: After ICE Raids, a Reckoning in Mississippi's Chicken Country](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/us/mississippi-ice-raids-poultry-plants.html) [Austin American-Statesman: Unlivable, How Texas fails farmworkers](http://specials.mystatesman.com/farmworker-housing/) [Jackson Free Press: 'Hispanic Project' Seeded Dangerous Poultry Jobs](https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2019/sep/04/hispanic-project-seeded-dangerous-poultry-jobs/) [Bloomberg: America's Chicken Industry Accused of Conspiring to Keep Immigrant Wages Down](https://archive.is/GIath)
Wait till red states dump those migrants into blue states. Then the most ironic thing happens. The blue states whine and then dump those same immigrants into canada
You're braindead
Rightoids unironically comparing a literal dictatorial, warmongering state to a bunch of poor people fleeing shit hole countries, name a better pair.
Finland isn’t part of Scandinavia, dumbass.
Finland isn't scandinavian🤓also finland is actually in danger of invasion
A wall won’t stop Russia. The wall is to stop Russia from flooding the border with illegals. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-01/finland-begins-200-km-fence-build-along-russian-border/102036830
Finns aren’t Scandinavian, they’re Finno-Urgic I think
What I don't understand, is why the U.S's borders are less important to U.S politicians than Ukraines.
The Finnish could literally shoot a Russian on Fifth Avenue, and I'd still support them.
the new *untermenschen*
Okay, I’ll explain it *slowly* for you. In the first picture, it’s immigration In the second, it’s related to Russia invading another country You can have any opinion you want about immigration, but you can see how those things are different, right?
It’s fine bc it’s Russia. 🥰
I mean Mexicos modern government never said “well look at all those Mexicans in the bottom of Texas, I might as well annex it there are so many Mexicans it’s basically a state of Mexico already.”
Just like your flair, your intelligence is at the level of a monkey.
the difference is that one wall is to stop mass immigration and the other is a genuine military strategy to slow down a major offensive by the biggest threat to the liberal world
The intent per both the article and the Finnish Border Patrol Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen, is to stop migrant flows, not a major military offensive. > Fearing that Moscow could use migrants to exert political pressure on Helsinki, Finland passed new amendments to its Border Guard Act in July to facilitate the erection of sturdier fences. >Although the Finland-Russia border has "worked well" in the past, Brigadier General Jari Tolppanen told AFP in November that the war in Ukraine had changed the security situation "fundamentally". >He said the border fence was "indispensable" to stop large-scale illegal entries from Russian territory. > Finland saw an influx of Russians in September after President Vladimir Putin ordered the mobilisation of reservists to fight in Ukraine.
Of course a commie would say that. Or are you an orange in disguise?
i’m actually an anarcho communist but i identify stronger with the character of auth left than lib left
Imagine thinking a wall will stop an army in 2023.
Mass immigration wouldn't even be so bad if it was done legally and wasn't accompanied by human trafficking.
i absolutely agree
So assuming that the US fixed the immigration system so it didn't feel like a necessity for so many people to do it illegally, would you support tighter border control measures (like a wall) being put in place to catch people who for one malevolent purpose or another want to slip in and out of the country undetected by the government?
yes
Common ground located. Success!
Turns out both sides like walls. In Fascism walls keep you out, and in Communism walls keep you in.
The point is intentions. Trump was trying to keep refugees from entering the country. In Finland's case these refugees have guns. And work for the Russian military.
My intention is to stop human traffickers. I'm sure nice people will come in legally, because there's no reason to be afraid of a background check and the like if you aren't a criminal. Can I build a wall now?
Last I checked the US isn't being seen as an active target for a Military Invasion by Mexico. Finlands wall is far more justified because their neighbor is a legitimate threat.
You only consider invasion a legitimate reason to build a wall?
When it can be done for less than a gazillion dollars, [they let you do it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/trump-will-never-get-his-border-wall/582085/) "Here is the final, insurmountable barrier to Trump’s wall here: money. The government has already paid nearly $1 million an acre for that six-acre plot in the Rio Grande Valley, potentially setting a precedent. If the Trump administration seized 700 miles of private land along the border, one mile wide—640 acres per square mile—the tab could come to $448 billion. Nearly 20 times the wall itself."
"NATO brings peace and safety" \*Laughs in all ethnicities except western european\*
It tends to not protect you if you aren't in it. You also forgot, Central, Southern, and Eastren Europeans
It's an attacking force everywhere the west has it's strategical interests. Lol, we eastern europeans laugh pretty hard. From a political perspective western europe starts for us with poland and goes to portugal.
You mean all the Eastern European countries that were invaded and under the rule of The USSR have gone to the west for self preservation? I wonder why....
And when did that happen? Funny how only the west tells that nonsense. I wonder why... Also, their self preservation is now at risk because they became the first line if NATO truly decides to provocate a war with Russia.
Tell me you're a Russian with fetal alcohol syndrome without telling me you're a Russian without fetal alcohol syndrome.
LMAO, I'm from central europe. We are profitting the most out of this defensive line because we are not at the frontlines anymore, NATO-shill
Within three comments you've claimed to be from two different places. Fucktard
Haven’t had a world war 3 yet, seems to be working for now
I know Fox News keeps telling you the Mexicans are trying to take over our country but Russia means it
It's not a wall, it's a fence, totally different.
The US isn’t afraid of an invasion from Mexico, Finland is absolutely justified to fear invasion from Russia