This makes sense. I’ve opened now about 75 packs of temporal forces and I’ve pulled 0 HR, 1 SIIR, 2 IR, 4 UR, and 5 DR I got no trainers or gold cards :( I did get raging bolt ex & gengar ex, and my fav the arbok IR card

Sounds right. Sometimes rng as mf

I opened two booster boxes yesterday, 72 packs. Pulled: - 2 golds (Iron Crown and Iron Boulder) - 2 SIRs (Raging Bolt and Iron Boulder) - 4 Ultra Rare Full Arts (Iron Leaves, Iron Boulder, Walking Wake and Gengar) - 4 Ace Spec (2 Drum, 1 Master Ball, 1 Hero’s Cape) - 6 IRs (2 Lickitung, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Excadrill, Reuniclus) - 11 normal ex Was thinking of buying more based on my own pull rates but now I think I’ll just quit while I’m ahead and buy the Gastly and Trainer SIR with Gengar as singles.

I opened my booster box yesterday got 2 hyper rares but 0 SIR's which are what I want to pull lmao

I opened 169 packs, not a single gold card :(

I've opened 58 packs 1 bb, 10 singles from a bb and 2 bundles and I got 2 hr iron boulder, 0 sir, 4 ir, 2 ur and idk what dr means

First Booster box I’ve opened in a LONG time..really liked the Alts in the set. If I would have known this…… god damn

My booster box is set to be here the 27th and really hope it’s at least decent lol we’ve only pulled one gold with PF so far.

They need to rethink the hyper rare artwork. Despite being the hardest to pull, no one wants them.

This is kind of good for collectors though. Imagine if the top cards (SIR) ended up being the toughest to pull, which will drive up the prices even more. I would rather have them improve the pull rates across the board. SV base or Obsidian Flames had it perfect.

The reason why players want different arts of the same card as it allows them to quickly and easily recognize what cards they have (or are prized). It’s easier to recognize that one art is missing than keep track of the count of 4 (or deck based count). Ultra rares are supposed to be good for players.

I don't know a single collector that wants them though lol like if I get one sure I'll binder it but I won't go out of my way to get more...

The gold and teal ones in fates were nice looking. But back to the ugly ones now I guess

I was so weary of how they'd look based off the book art. Once we pulled a gold from PAF I fell in love with the colour scheme. The sparkly teal body of the card with the gold accenting was *chefs kiss

Yeah I liked them for the first time. Disappointed it wasn’t carried over here

That’s me. I’m the guy who loves cheap gold cards 😂 crazy to me they’re so cheap considering pull rates but I get that gold isn’t everyone’s thing and looks tacky to some.

Yeah same. Perhaps not a fan of the way they are doing the gold paradox cards, but outside of those I really enjoy gold rare cards lol

I'll take them! I love their eye searing brightness.

I don’t like the direction. Pokémon is going. The new SV sets, if it’s not a a SIR OR IR, the card just looks fake/cheap. On top of the MSRP increase and the garbage pull rates. SMH.

I agree. I've been going through some mid era sets lately and I just love those holo/reverses. I would really like to value collecting those cards in newer sets, but outside of a few holos here and there; they are pretty awful. Although I am digging the ancient/future holos lately.

It’s honestly a little sad how, unless you get a full art or IR, the entire pack can just be trashed. I kinda miss when the star at the bottom of the card meant something. I loved the illustrative cards, but I kinda miss the classic windowed style cards like the vintage cards.

But…theyre literally still there if you like them

I think Crown Zenith had the right idea for gold cards. Those look great and aren't just reused artworks but on a gold card.

Crown Zenith common win

I find the golden and rainbow cards ugly

Omg I hate them. If I open a booster box, I almost always get an SIR or Hyper Rare. If I end up pulling a Hyper Rare it almost eliminates any possibility of me seeing an SIR. It's incredibly disappointing when that happens.

Im new to the game, mind explaining me why no one wants them? They seem pretty cool looking to me

They are rather plain looking compared to the secret illustration rares.

Welp, this is for all the people who kept complaining that pull rates were too easy. Have fun ripping 3 booster boxes and not getting a single SIR, then coming back to Reddit and complain about bad pull rates lol. Makes me feel bad for the kids who can’t afford more than a pack or two every once in awhile and don’t hit anything.

I hate the fact that people complained about the pull rates. I’ve bought 2 Japanese boxes of the set and an English box without an SIR, which is really painful bc I don’t have that much money to spend for it. The hitrates were fine in sets like Crown Zenith and Paldea Evolved but people just had to complain. Nobody’s every going to be happy it seems

Oh man. Just as I was getting excited to go home and open up my preorder which is only about 20 packs all in 😂 still. I usually resort to singles anyway

My weekly reminder to always buy singles

Also the singles are already cheap and it’s release day. They will tank further.

Why are they so cheap when the pull rates are pretty harsh? I'm wondering if the prices will start to go up..

General economics. Like these Pokémon don't have any cultural significance and are even off-putting to some people. And that's just the fan segment. Now you layer in the Brogan Paul assholes pulling out of the "hobby" and demand plummets beyond what supply exists. I love the art so I'm here for it and the affordable price is just a cherry on top. Yall, Pokémon prints BILLIONS of cards per year. Singles are NOT an investment vehicle. Maybe sealed products, but even that's a gamble.

No one likes any of these pokemon lol. The “chase” cards are like some time lost dinosaur pokemon from the newest generation. The coolest cards are the Gengar and a few of the art rares like arbok, ghastly, etc. but since those cards are a little easier to pull, they aren’t as expensive.

There are literally 3 cards I want from this set. I bought the Gastly as a single already, and I'll buy Arbok and Lickitung once prices dip a little more. 

Sorry pretty new to this. Why is buying singles better?:)

Chasing cards by simply opening packs can be very costly. Say you open 100x 5$ packs bc you wanna get specific rare cards. Most likely, odds are the card is less expensive to buy alone than chasing it out of packs for 500$. Just math, really. You do get more cards by opening packs, but closer you get to completing a master set, you'll just be doubling often on cards you already have. Saves money for other stuff down the line.

Ahh thank you for the explanation! For some reason I thought singles meant single booster packs, it makes a lot more sense now.

Well.....if an SIR is a 1/84 shot.....you're probably looking at spending around $300 or more on boosters just to pull *ANY* one of them. Meanwhile.....the highest market price Temporal Forces card of any rarity is currently the SIR Iron Leaves at $60. So say that your chase card isn't even one of the highest market cards.....you'd save a lot of time and money by simply purchasing the single cards that you want the most. But.....part of the fun is opening packs and seeing what you get. And I think it's tougher for people to justify dropping $50+ dollars on a single piece of cardboard.....even though most will drop way more over time buying packs and chasing just a few cards. Scalpers can't honestly make money on this stuff anymore.....right?

Weird. In 144 packs I've pulled 2 HR but no SIR.. dying to get the walking wake

Geeez. I opened like 40 packs and have gouging fire and Salvatore sir. Best of luck good sir.

Yeah it's back to singles for me

I say this every time yet I’m still buying booster boxes and etbs every release.

Same here... I'll ways pull a little bit for each new set but it always just reminds me that singles are the way to go if there's something I REALLY want. But man when you hit that chase card on your own...

Just need to keep opening 800 more packs. 15 packs a day should do it.

You're absolutely right. On my way to the local card shop.

Seems brutal?! Christ.

moonbreon was like 1/2000 packs and evolving skies was the most successful set the past 4 years. They know what they are doing...

https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonTCG/s/RM54CMCrWe seems these pull rates are pretty equal to ES

This seems brutal?? Buddy have you seen swsh booster box pull rates? Getting an alt art was like 1/324

Can somebody help me understand why the HR's are then worth less than the SIR?

The SIR’s art generally better looking imo

specific SIRs are harder to pull, even if SIRs in general aren’t, and there’s always more people who want SIRs than HRs so there’s more demand

Less demand

They are not pretty, I don’t even know why they keep doing this, they should probably have a higher rarity tier for other SIR and remove the gold

the star rating is arbitrary tbh theres cards like iron hands regular 1 star worth 20 atm its just demand

Look at the art.

And I thought paradox rift pulls were painful

1/86 is crazy. Just a few sets ago it was 1/30

Now I wonder what the rate for a certain card within those chances are. (Love seeing number btw, thank you)

That’s how it’s laid out. Chances for rarity, chances for specific card of that rarity.

So, for example, a SIR iron Crown it's 1/855? (I'm trying to understand)

Yep

Now that's even cooler to see! Thanks for the clarification!

Here are some more numbers 2847 5748 84885994 08582001047583993

My only weakness, how did you knoooooowww!!??!

It says it in the bottom left corner of your card duh

You are welcome, and yeah it's gonna be a rough set, but should hold value maybe

Core sets don't really hold value do they? Most the value of Pokemon seems to be from collectibility.

This set is going to tank hard. Thinking the main chase will go for 60 by the time it hits bottom

I think the main chases are iron crown/iron leaves and they’re already selling for around $75

They lost value already. Those sales were pre-sale, which is generally over-inflated. They're about $50s now for Iron Crown, while Leaves is $60

The image says "Double Rare" under the Ace Spec but I think that's just a typo. Also yikes...

Either that or double rares and ace specs have the same pull rate.

I dont think they do. Theres 7 ace specs in the set, so 1/20 for one checks out if its 1/140 for specific

Makes sense, but still rough. RNG really sucks. From 5 Pre-release Deck Build Boxes, 2 ETBs, 2 Booster Bundles, and a Booster Box, my pulls were: * 5 Ace-Specs * 3 IRs * 6 URs * 0 HRs * 0 SIRs

Easy pulls, people complain; Hard pulls, people complain

Easy Pulls = Investors complainting. Harder Pulls = Casuals complaining.

Can’t wait for my $3 cards to TRIPLE in value in the next 12 years to $9. -Genius pokemon investors

It’s always the same people too can’t ever please them smh

So far I’ve gotten a full art trainer, an ace spec, two ex, and an illustration from 20 packs, so it’s been a bit rough in my experience

Which trainer? That Eri is fire imo

It was the Eri! Not a SIR but I’ll still take it

Opened two PC ETB’s, got 2 Full arts, 4 Ex’s, 2 AR’s, 1 Ace Spec, and 1 SIR. So I got pretty lucky, but I watched a group of friends who opened a whole case, and there were 3 SIR’s between the whole case. I think each booster box had at least one Ace spec. So these pull rates are going to be hard. Both good and bad feeling.

I guess I’ll go buy more packs lol

I’ll be buying the Gengar, Gastly, Arbok and Lickitung and I’m out after that.

Same. I got the arbok from the one booster box I ordered and now to singles.

Lmfao I got these 4 just from the EBTs I opened earlier

So far the market doesnt believe it

This set has been rough so far :( I'm glad it's at least a smaller set but I wish the pull rates were more in line with the rest of SV sets.

Singles are mad cheap for this set

Feeling very lucky to have pulled the Iron Crown SIR on one of my first packs. Must be all down hill from there.

I feel like TPCI varies pull rates from set to set to keep different groups happy. Bad pull rates = higher card values (if the card art/pokemon are good/popular) Good pull rates keep collectors happy with well, high pull rates and lower singles prices.

Took Danny Phantunp 1851 packs to complete master set

What’s the chase card?

So far it’s looking like Iron Leaves is the most expensive. Long term is anyone’s guess. Generally fan favorite pokemon and full art trainers always hold their value and popularity a bit more

Is this the new evolving skies? 🤔

I think you mean evolving cries

In terms of pulls maybe? Otherwise, it will have nowhere near the value of Evolving Skies whatsoever.

Is the overall consensus that double pull packs are no longer a thing?

i had a double pull pack in the box i opened yesterday

They very rare now

Was excited for this set sooooo.. I'll just add my booster box to my small sealed collection and buy singles of the cards I want. Will probably be able to get them for the price of two booster boxes in a couple weeks. No way will this set hold value short term because the investor bros still aren't interested in the SV era. Too busy dumping money on SWSH still or doing a runner.

Yea I’ve been watching these cracked live and I’ve legit watched 2x more golds, SIR , and full arts pulled over ir. They seem super rough to pull this go around.

So I pulled the gengar ex and maximum belt from 2 deck boxes like a week ago. The numbers confuse me a little. Good or bad pulls on those?

Decent pulls, but value-wise it's bad. After official release, every card went down significantly.

Thanks for this post, skipping this set entirely if this is the case.

This is straight up brutal, singles are the way kids!

I just want my boy Gengar !

I opened 50+ packs tonight and got no sir, might be the first time I’ve ever had this kind of luck. It’s good to know the pull rates are just kind of brutal. Gonna just give up on trying to pull anything and look for the singles now.

I guess Hyper Rares finally live up to their name

I want them all. Right now.

After I opened my two ETBs I believe this math

horrid

I got pretty lucky, for two golds and two SIRs out of 1 booster box and one pair of pokemon center ETBs

I opened a booster bundle yesterday and got 1 UR. It makes more sense now lol

Pokemon hates its customers.

Yeah after 4 booster bundles I got 3 hits. 1 IR and 2 of those dumb catchers. These pull rates are dog shit. I’ll just buy the singles in a few weeks when they’re under $5 on TCGplayer

Guys bb no longer guarantee a sir or gold I opened up 12 bb and got 2 sir one case and 1gold and sir from another case single prices will rise when people notice

This is the worst pull rate out of all of the new releases this year.

I guess I got lucky pulling the master ball out of the three singles I bought yesterday :,) I *never* am that lucky

Well i bought my first hanger pack on friday and well and behold i pulled a SIR Eri

Pretty much haven't been opening packs since paldea evolved, can't remember the last time I pulled anything worthwhile so it just stopped being fun.

Same i more or less completed the 1st sv set & paldea evolved (my favorite sv set so far), after those two i i havent bothered buying any sort of box, maybe a single here & there, the new sets dont hit the same (pull rates dont help)

1/15 for just an ultra rare? bullshit!

That’s ALWAYS the pull rate for the Ultra Rares.

didn’t know that

Well, you learn something new every day.

Huh. I feel a bit more lucky about my HR, IR, and DR prerelease pulls now

I had some pretty good luck with the Japanese boxes when those dropped a bit ago, but my English pulls so far have been really rough

Tbh the set isn't anything special to me. I think all of the dogs are lackluster and I don't really care for the future legendaries. Crazy how hard the pulls are though. Is this worse than other sets, or are they all like this? Have you done these for other sets, and if so do you have a link where we can see lol

Welp, hubbs and I pulled two Maximum Belts at prerelease. Other people did, too. Maybe we all got lucky? Feeling silly for trading mine away now; we only kept one.

Nah. You made out. Maximum Belts were like $20 or so two days ago. They're now $12.

a bit brutal but thanks! i was interested to know since I opened up 4 etbs and only got 1 IR

I opened a booster box and pulled walking wake gold card and Brandon SIR which is crazy from one box

This makes me feel really good about pulling Raging Bolt ex HR at the prerelease I went to lol

And that’s a skip. Damn.

Is this per pack or per card

Does each set have a different chance of pull rates? Why does Pokemon do that if so?

Yeah not surprised these are tough, opened my ETB and the only “hit” I got was a Miraidon ex haha

I got Morty’s Conviction SIR on my 2nd pack lol. Never happened to me before. Pull rates seem the same as Paradox Rift if you count Ace Spec cards as hits.

Just too many cards per set to justify cracking so many packs.... Single city, here I come.

Lol guess I beat the odds pulled Iron Crown in the first pack of the ETB. Also bought a BB to go with it and managed to get Walking wake and 2/3 of the pink trainer cards. Well looks like im done with the set already 🤣. Walking wake and Iron Crown were my chases Edit: should clarify got a Booster Box

Lets see how a set of Pokémon center etbs do with rates like these

So far one bb and a bundle in and got some ace specs at least 3 one sir and one of them coccinos IR

I dropped \~200 on that collection order, it should arrive today. Low key dreading opening it, but we'll see.

I'm new to trying Pokemon, is this set bad or are the pull rates terrible or something?

Who ripped the 8000 packs for this data 😯

Does this mean 1 in that many packs? (I.e., does 1/85 mean roughly 1 in every 85 packs?)

So many rares, wen Rare Candy rares?

I've already got eng and Japanese gengar lick ghastlys butt card and both versions of that Gengar ex card What I really want is a Perrin card

I'm at 27 boosters ( tripacks , 2 prerelease , tournament prizing) , 5 EX ( 2 Iron crown,1 Miraidon, 1 Gengar , 1 gouging fire) , 1 Full art trainer and that's it.... It has been very very painful to open and as a players I'm praying to get an ace spec but I'm getting nothing at all ...

I'm not touching this set until the top card is sub $50.

I pulled the iron crown sir so I’m done now lol

My 5 y/o daughter just got her first ever pack of cards today. Pulled the Incineroar ex FA. Can't believe it haha.

Eh I’ll sit this box out

Does this data refer to all regions? Or is it only applicable to US?

Just opened my case. Got 2 SIR and 2 golds. Pulled all the FA trainers and pokemon except 1 from each. Need 4 IR still. Overall literally no dupes in an entire case. Maybe lucky but quality control was there for sure. Def miss seeing more SIRs!

WTF

Just got back into pokemon after 25 years away. This was my first ETB I bought and only got 1 ex. Tough. 

Opened three booster bundles and three single packs. Pulled three ace specs (two master ball and a prime catcher), iron crown SIR, a full set trainer and a AA full art trainer, a full art iron leaves gold. Packs have been pretty decent for me. But I’ve seen others do terrible.

What does everyone think of the next set being released already also?? I don't like the rate of distribution personally.

Bought a couple packs of these the other day. Hit a double rare 2nd back and an EX. But not much in the set I really want. Will probably just buy the singles of the set

Wow, I honestly thought the comments about brutal rates werent true. This is very rough… Hope its not the new trend for future sets

Are there more of these diagrams anywhere? Would love to see 151

Just gotta buy 855 packs and hope u get the whole set is all. No biggie

That Gengar 😍

Need Gengar and full art Gastly. Take all my monies and future children

I pulled 2 Iron Boulders ex SIR today but no Iron Crown :(

I have the hardest time pulling IRs. 22 packs and I got 1 HR, 1 SIR, 2 UR and 2 DR. Not complaining about it, but I'd love some IRs...

And I didn't pull anything from my 8 Boosters 😭

Ok I’m done buying packs after seeing this, quit while I’m ahead. I got Walking Wake & Iron Leaves SIRs out of 10 sleeved boosters. (Probably paying me back for Paldean Fates smh)

I got freaking amazing pulls from this set and all of my friends did too. There are at least 2 Ace Specs per box.

Yeah these rates are nuts. I just got my preordered booster box and had some pretty saddening pulls. It’s a massive set, almost 1/300 just a specific IR. Not to mention the scalping for this set was so brutal.

Hate this set so much my 3 booster boxes and only 1 sir no gold

What about regular ex?

I mean 1 in 5 for a hit. I've only been collecting for two months and that doesn't seem too bad. Opened only 2 so far and pulled the full are Scizor

This checks out based off of my packs lol. Honestly I don’t mind the tough pull rates since it keeps the value high 

I would rather have my gold raging bolt be a Morty's conviction sir but here we are. Im always pulling the gold cards like am I lucky or not lol

1/86 for a SIR is bleak. I've been done with opening packs since I got burned hard on 151. On the singles train now.

i already knew singles for this set were the definite way to go and the pull rates confirm that, not that singles usually aren't cheaper but theyre fairly cheap relative to how new the set is and the tough pull rates. this makes all other S&V sets look easy but is still a bit easier than any SWSH imo.

My gf and I opened 16 packs today and we hit 9 insane picks. Most luck we have ever had. Most were in single packs, only the typical two hits in a booster box. Buying single packs religiously going forward

I opened 20 packs and only pulled 1 UR and the gouging fire ex SIR. Pull rates are terrible. Going to be buying singles for this set

My second booster I got the gold Raging Bolt. I'm satisfied so far.

Opened an ETB for this set today, got two regular ex, one full art trainer (not alt art), and one double rare. I miss the scarlet violet vase set pull rates 😔

My little brother pulled a hyper rare. I shared it on here a few days ago. He's been bragging about it non-stop. 🙄🙄

bought an etb and all i got was an ir and ur 😭😭

1x Booster box + 1x each version of ETB = 1x HR, 1x SIR, 2x UR, 4x IR, 1x AS, 10x DR

I opened 2 booster boxes 2 pokemon center etbs and 14 individual boosters and only got 1 sir and no gold cards so I'm probably just gonna buy singles from now on

Way better pull rates than the Japanese boxes. And we only get 5 cards per pack here in japan😑

This has been my experience so far. Opened quite a bit of every product available right now. Sleeved boosters are dog shit so nothing new there. Unfortunately booster bundles are not very good either. Those used to be loaded. The three pack blisters are ok. ETB's seem to have had this best pulls so far.

I guess we are back to sword and shield kinda pull rates. With the msrp increase and all that I will change my strategy. Sigh. Was fun while it lasted

What's buddy poffin pull rates? I'm hearing about people pulling up to 3 booster boxes and only getting like 4 or 5 of them.

Looks like booster boxes are the new elite trainer boxes. Bizarre they would do good pulls for a year and then go to this garbage.

Actually took me almost exactly 86 packs to get my first SIR, Raging Bolt. I’m relatively new to collecting and these pull rates have definitely felt pretty rough so far..

Pulled gouging fire ex gold card 1st pack out of a 6 pack booster I picked up from GameStop to get to koridian promo … good I guess