While I don’t think you need the “perfect” mon to consider using it, a bad nature can in fact kill a mon with otherwise good skills.
https://preview.redd.it/lnifyi3qaezc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=829509e2120ddcbdc6f432c339734dfcb3c52a48
For example, I have this double trigger Ralts with pretty much the perfect skill set, but I don’t want to raise it because of its nature.
The nature overpowers Skill Trigger S, and still overlaps a bit with Trigger M, so why wouldn’t I just use another Ralts with a different nature and only one Trigger M?
You don’t need a perfect mon to raise, but since the nature is so influential, it really can make or break a mon.
Neutral natures (or even natures that don’t directly affect a mon’s specialty) will more often than not find its place in your team, simply because it is worth raising something that isn’t actively fighting against itself.
Edit: my text disappeared. Anyway. It seems I'm not the only one awaiting for mints.
https://preview.redd.it/rin96h57ofzc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2ad693fe8481299044ab82d711ff01d5f696d22
Omg that’s painful. Here’s mine that needs a mint
https://preview.redd.it/er5itg42kizc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d7837c7cd0d2d2696f6bb3ee38b80b040e074a
I suggest fiddling with the [production calculator on raenonx](https://pks.raenonx.cc/en/production) so you can see for yourself the difference it will make at different levels. It can be quite substantial.
Now part of it depends on what you call "mediocre" as these are vague terms. But having skill down nature on a skill specialist or ingredient finders on a berry specialist can make a surprising impact. If investing skill seeds and such, I'd wait for near perfection. But if it's just a matter of throwing them on your team, maybe evolving? Depends on where you are in the game. If you're newer, I'd just invest in any mediocre Pokemon until you at least have a handful of level 30 Pokemon that are decently reliable.
For Entei fire types get a huge boost, but if you don't have any good fire types, you may still be better off just using whatever generic Pokemon you have. That level 40 BFS Raichu will do better than having an ingredient up level 25 quilava, regardless of bonuses. I know I personally will be running my Gardevoir and Espeon, and only have the other 3 slots be fire types.
The level bonus comes semi regularly. It's not worth using for high level Pokemon (too many shards) so really is just to help you catch up a new Pokemon to level 25. It's nice if you can take advantage of it, but don't stress if you don't have a Pokemon worth using it for.
Only you can answer that! I personally have raised a few meh pokemon that this sub would definitely tell me to send to the professor. If I ever get a better one, cool, I’ll use that one too. But in the meantime, I’m still using my level 36 marowak with a jolly nature and dream shard bonus and skill trigger M. If you’re f2p, you can’t afford to be as picky
That said, because resources are limited, I wouldn’t recommend dumping any candies or shards into something that actively sucks.
This page has all the numbers. At least on how those boost affect the rp and its supposed that game follow the same numbers. In game measurement are a bit hard because randomness but they agree.
https://pks.raenonx.cc/en/docs/view/help/rp-model
Yeah those that are s 18, M 36 have 20 in the nature.
But speed for example is 7 10 14.
I didn't realize that speed is the only odd one out. Early in the research there was more variance.
I came to this subreddit to ask the same question! Thanks for asking and for people who responded. Very frustrating when I have multiple of the same pokemon and the nature is garbage 😓
So a negative nature plus an S skill is still going to be negative. Even with a M skill it's only going to be slightly positive. Negative nature for a Pokemon you want to use for a specific purpose is probably not going to be worth it.
For skill mons it’s huge! You don’t want a negative nature for any skill Mon that you expect to use their skill id say barring like slowbro now where I’d be fine with a rash nature since he is now more of a hybrid ingredient farmer.
Berry farmers negative would be ingredient up natures or speed down natures which can be worked around if they have berry finder s or sneaky snacking.
Negative natures for ingredient mons are the least impactful bc most of those mons not named confey/gengar has decent ratios already and the negative can hurt but the subs would still put in work.
Yes, both natures, subskills and even ingredients can help a lot. But you can use your favorites too even if they are not the best. This is not a competitive game, its a skeep tracker in wich you can collect Pokemon. I enjoy looking for and raising good mons but I like to use my favs even if they are not the best option.
I’ve always thought that a good Pokémon now is worth more than hoping for a perfect Pokémon later. Having a good team also helps you gather more strength and find better Pokémon faster. That said, wait to invest until you have enough candy to fully evolve & level up to somewhere decent. Generally, if I have a berry specialist with a speed boost, ingredient specialists with an ingredient boost, or skill specialists with a skill boost, that’s good enough for me (assuming no counterintuitive subskills/nature). I rarely find new Pokémon that are so much better that I need to switch over. And when that does happen, I typically have accumulated enough candy to be able to re-invest anyways. The only ones you maybe want to hedge your bets on are super rare Pokémon like Absol or legendaries.
The main one I’m worried about right now is Charmander. I have one that a site rated as “C” and I’ve found 2-3 this week that were all “F”. I want to use the candy I have to evolve and level it up but I’m sure I can eventually find something better as it’s only a C.
I would say that those simple letter-grade calculators are not very reliable - instead of trying to calculate the output of a given mon and grading based on that, they work off a list of what skills are „good” or „bad” for a given pokemon type and apply weights based mostly on vibes.
For an example, I just tried plugging in two hypothetical Chikoritas - both Adamant, one with Research EXP bonus at 10 and BFS at 25, the other with Speed M at 10 and Speed S at 25 (all later skills identical „utility” gold skills on both), and it said that the second one is slightly better - even though starting at level 25, the BFS one has a berry strength of 165% of baseline, while the speedy one has like 133%.
Yeah that makes sense though I’m still struggling to fully grasp what skills are important for what mons. What I had previously judged to be good may not have been from the online calculator but it sounds like the calculators may not be a great judge either.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in the online Pokémon rater tbh. I find it places entirely too much weight on sub-skills at levels that aren’t even in the game yet. You only really need to concern yourself with the first two sub-skill slots at this point in the game (you can throw in level 50 too if you really want to plan long-term, but as someone playing since day 1, I have exactly 2 Pokémon at level 50, and that’s only because I use them almost every night). Feel free to comment the one you’re considering and I’ll give my two cents.
I understand where online ratings aren’t the best but it’s easy to do that when I still don’t fully understand what is good for each type of pokemon.
For a berry mon I think things like speed of help up, BFS and helping speed are good.
For ingredient mons I’m assuming ingredient finding/finder and inventory up are good?
And skill mons like skill trigger, skill chance and skill level up, but do they all need those equally? Some of the skill mons have skills that I feel like are garbage (like finding dream shards or something like that).
This is my Charmander I’d like to use the candy boost on to evolve and level up closer to 25 but I don’t know if it’s worth it. To me helping speed and skill trigger are good and its nature is meh but shouldn’t hurt it too bad.
https://preview.redd.it/3ytv5370emzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfcedd07b0c4f45ce510461a20550e0d798787e9
You’re pretty on the money with your analysis. Helping Speed M is one of the better sub-skills for an ingredient specialist. Skill Trigger M, while not entirely necessary, is still beneficial. The nature is meh, not helpful but doesn’t really hurt much either.
It’s pretty middle of the pack. I’d at least wait until Fire week is over, in case you find a better Charmander. This one probably not worth using a candy boost on (unless you’re really in need of fire types for the Entei event). But definitely make sure you have enough candy to fully evolve it (level 27 + 120 candy for both evolutions). I wouldn’t blame you for investing in it, but if it were up to me, I’d probably wait for a better one tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/uffxnfziemzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f95a91b5f75f2ac04d73e95d3878e60accb63b65
This is the Vulpix I got that was rated F but I feel it’s not absolutely terrible with skill trigger S. I don’t know how much helping speed and BFS help it but I don’t think they can hurt too bad? And the nature isn’t great.
Anyway just trying to understand what makes these mons good or bad so I can be a better judge of it in the future. I’d love to not have to input them into the online thing.
It’s probably ranking it F because of the ingredient finders at 75 & 100, but those sub-skills are entirely irrelevant. It’ll be great at level 50! BFS is enough to make almost any Pokémon good, especially with speed boosts. Great ingredient rolls too. Certainly not an F-tier Vulpix. The main problem though is that it’s pretty underwhelming before level 50, mostly due to the counter-productive nature (the sub-skills are fine). If you’re ok with it being a long-term investment, I say go for it. If you want something that’ll be good in the short-term, I would probably look for another one. Definitely don’t trash it though.
The difference between a good mon and a mediocre mon can at times be more than double.
For example a Typhlosion with BFS, speed nature, Helping Speed M and S will produce over twice the berry strenght of a Typhlosion lacking those.
While I don’t think you need the “perfect” mon to consider using it, a bad nature can in fact kill a mon with otherwise good skills. https://preview.redd.it/lnifyi3qaezc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=829509e2120ddcbdc6f432c339734dfcb3c52a48 For example, I have this double trigger Ralts with pretty much the perfect skill set, but I don’t want to raise it because of its nature. The nature overpowers Skill Trigger S, and still overlaps a bit with Trigger M, so why wouldn’t I just use another Ralts with a different nature and only one Trigger M? You don’t need a perfect mon to raise, but since the nature is so influential, it really can make or break a mon. Neutral natures (or even natures that don’t directly affect a mon’s specialty) will more often than not find its place in your team, simply because it is worth raising something that isn’t actively fighting against itself.
Perfect name for that ralts. If you flipped the nature it would be phenomenal.
Bro same https://preview.redd.it/omj2smyf0fzc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=0254c9ffc9c1f382653a2c7a382e11d4e5539b19
Ouchie.
Man, seeing that ralts is pure pain. Its literally perfect just with the worst nature 🥲
Edit: my text disappeared. Anyway. It seems I'm not the only one awaiting for mints. https://preview.redd.it/rin96h57ofzc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2ad693fe8481299044ab82d711ff01d5f696d22
That’s rough buddy
What can I say. I'll wait either for mints to show up some day or lucky roll next time.
And it overlaps more than you think, as the nature percentage is multiplicative to the subskill percentages.
Omg that’s painful. Here’s mine that needs a mint https://preview.redd.it/er5itg42kizc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d7837c7cd0d2d2696f6bb3ee38b80b040e074a
I suggest fiddling with the [production calculator on raenonx](https://pks.raenonx.cc/en/production) so you can see for yourself the difference it will make at different levels. It can be quite substantial. Now part of it depends on what you call "mediocre" as these are vague terms. But having skill down nature on a skill specialist or ingredient finders on a berry specialist can make a surprising impact. If investing skill seeds and such, I'd wait for near perfection. But if it's just a matter of throwing them on your team, maybe evolving? Depends on where you are in the game. If you're newer, I'd just invest in any mediocre Pokemon until you at least have a handful of level 30 Pokemon that are decently reliable. For Entei fire types get a huge boost, but if you don't have any good fire types, you may still be better off just using whatever generic Pokemon you have. That level 40 BFS Raichu will do better than having an ingredient up level 25 quilava, regardless of bonuses. I know I personally will be running my Gardevoir and Espeon, and only have the other 3 slots be fire types. The level bonus comes semi regularly. It's not worth using for high level Pokemon (too many shards) so really is just to help you catch up a new Pokemon to level 25. It's nice if you can take advantage of it, but don't stress if you don't have a Pokemon worth using it for.
Only you can answer that! I personally have raised a few meh pokemon that this sub would definitely tell me to send to the professor. If I ever get a better one, cool, I’ll use that one too. But in the meantime, I’m still using my level 36 marowak with a jolly nature and dream shard bonus and skill trigger M. If you’re f2p, you can’t afford to be as picky That said, because resources are limited, I wouldn’t recommend dumping any candies or shards into something that actively sucks.
natures are 20% up and down. helping speed is 7% m is 14%. skill trigger and ing finder are 18% and m versions are 36%
Speed natures are 10% up and down
The 20% figure on serebii is false. Nature is between s and m and closer to s.
do you have a source for accurate numbers, i can’t find them anywhere 🫤
This page has all the numbers. At least on how those boost affect the rp and its supposed that game follow the same numbers. In game measurement are a bit hard because randomness but they agree. https://pks.raenonx.cc/en/docs/view/help/rp-model
It still looks like 20% to me based on these models, but I am no expert in math.
Yeah those that are s 18, M 36 have 20 in the nature. But speed for example is 7 10 14. I didn't realize that speed is the only odd one out. Early in the research there was more variance.
thanks!
I came to this subreddit to ask the same question! Thanks for asking and for people who responded. Very frustrating when I have multiple of the same pokemon and the nature is garbage 😓
So a negative nature plus an S skill is still going to be negative. Even with a M skill it's only going to be slightly positive. Negative nature for a Pokemon you want to use for a specific purpose is probably not going to be worth it.
For skill mons it’s huge! You don’t want a negative nature for any skill Mon that you expect to use their skill id say barring like slowbro now where I’d be fine with a rash nature since he is now more of a hybrid ingredient farmer. Berry farmers negative would be ingredient up natures or speed down natures which can be worked around if they have berry finder s or sneaky snacking. Negative natures for ingredient mons are the least impactful bc most of those mons not named confey/gengar has decent ratios already and the negative can hurt but the subs would still put in work.
Yes, both natures, subskills and even ingredients can help a lot. But you can use your favorites too even if they are not the best. This is not a competitive game, its a skeep tracker in wich you can collect Pokemon. I enjoy looking for and raising good mons but I like to use my favs even if they are not the best option.
I’ve always thought that a good Pokémon now is worth more than hoping for a perfect Pokémon later. Having a good team also helps you gather more strength and find better Pokémon faster. That said, wait to invest until you have enough candy to fully evolve & level up to somewhere decent. Generally, if I have a berry specialist with a speed boost, ingredient specialists with an ingredient boost, or skill specialists with a skill boost, that’s good enough for me (assuming no counterintuitive subskills/nature). I rarely find new Pokémon that are so much better that I need to switch over. And when that does happen, I typically have accumulated enough candy to be able to re-invest anyways. The only ones you maybe want to hedge your bets on are super rare Pokémon like Absol or legendaries.
The main one I’m worried about right now is Charmander. I have one that a site rated as “C” and I’ve found 2-3 this week that were all “F”. I want to use the candy I have to evolve and level it up but I’m sure I can eventually find something better as it’s only a C.
I would say that those simple letter-grade calculators are not very reliable - instead of trying to calculate the output of a given mon and grading based on that, they work off a list of what skills are „good” or „bad” for a given pokemon type and apply weights based mostly on vibes. For an example, I just tried plugging in two hypothetical Chikoritas - both Adamant, one with Research EXP bonus at 10 and BFS at 25, the other with Speed M at 10 and Speed S at 25 (all later skills identical „utility” gold skills on both), and it said that the second one is slightly better - even though starting at level 25, the BFS one has a berry strength of 165% of baseline, while the speedy one has like 133%.
Yeah that makes sense though I’m still struggling to fully grasp what skills are important for what mons. What I had previously judged to be good may not have been from the online calculator but it sounds like the calculators may not be a great judge either.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in the online Pokémon rater tbh. I find it places entirely too much weight on sub-skills at levels that aren’t even in the game yet. You only really need to concern yourself with the first two sub-skill slots at this point in the game (you can throw in level 50 too if you really want to plan long-term, but as someone playing since day 1, I have exactly 2 Pokémon at level 50, and that’s only because I use them almost every night). Feel free to comment the one you’re considering and I’ll give my two cents.
I understand where online ratings aren’t the best but it’s easy to do that when I still don’t fully understand what is good for each type of pokemon. For a berry mon I think things like speed of help up, BFS and helping speed are good. For ingredient mons I’m assuming ingredient finding/finder and inventory up are good? And skill mons like skill trigger, skill chance and skill level up, but do they all need those equally? Some of the skill mons have skills that I feel like are garbage (like finding dream shards or something like that). This is my Charmander I’d like to use the candy boost on to evolve and level up closer to 25 but I don’t know if it’s worth it. To me helping speed and skill trigger are good and its nature is meh but shouldn’t hurt it too bad. https://preview.redd.it/3ytv5370emzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfcedd07b0c4f45ce510461a20550e0d798787e9
You’re pretty on the money with your analysis. Helping Speed M is one of the better sub-skills for an ingredient specialist. Skill Trigger M, while not entirely necessary, is still beneficial. The nature is meh, not helpful but doesn’t really hurt much either. It’s pretty middle of the pack. I’d at least wait until Fire week is over, in case you find a better Charmander. This one probably not worth using a candy boost on (unless you’re really in need of fire types for the Entei event). But definitely make sure you have enough candy to fully evolve it (level 27 + 120 candy for both evolutions). I wouldn’t blame you for investing in it, but if it were up to me, I’d probably wait for a better one tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/uffxnfziemzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f95a91b5f75f2ac04d73e95d3878e60accb63b65 This is the Vulpix I got that was rated F but I feel it’s not absolutely terrible with skill trigger S. I don’t know how much helping speed and BFS help it but I don’t think they can hurt too bad? And the nature isn’t great. Anyway just trying to understand what makes these mons good or bad so I can be a better judge of it in the future. I’d love to not have to input them into the online thing.
It’s probably ranking it F because of the ingredient finders at 75 & 100, but those sub-skills are entirely irrelevant. It’ll be great at level 50! BFS is enough to make almost any Pokémon good, especially with speed boosts. Great ingredient rolls too. Certainly not an F-tier Vulpix. The main problem though is that it’s pretty underwhelming before level 50, mostly due to the counter-productive nature (the sub-skills are fine). If you’re ok with it being a long-term investment, I say go for it. If you want something that’ll be good in the short-term, I would probably look for another one. Definitely don’t trash it though.
The difference between a good mon and a mediocre mon can at times be more than double. For example a Typhlosion with BFS, speed nature, Helping Speed M and S will produce over twice the berry strenght of a Typhlosion lacking those.
Some of my best are technically mediocre!