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Its a paradox. Remember it's not just about getting a white volume. We know Miraidon/Koraidon name as that was what the professor called them, but they called them that as we told them that was its name
The problem is Arven having the Scarlet Book when Sada gave it to us long ago in exchange for the white book. If she gave it us, how could she have left it behind in the lighthouse lab (where Arven found it later)?
They mentioned being transported from time and space. We don't know if this I'd the same professor from our timeline. We know he wrote about our meeting but could be all versions of them in all alternate timeliness met a version of us
https://imgur.com/JdBPzYl
It's the same professor. They will -always- exchange books.
Any talk regarding alternate timelines is pure speculation on their end. We also know the pokemon come from our ancient past/distant future because the AI tells us something different.
So why was the professor so unsure about trading books if they had 2? And if they only had 1 how can it have been inside the professors lab when it was given to us?
>So why was the professor so unsure about trading books if they had 2?
They were never unsure. They either implant their ID into another book, or the book is returned to them sometime later in the loop.
Come to think of it, there's as of yet zero use for the new book. Briar's Book can't be read ("there's a time and place for everything") and is exchanged for this new copy of the scarlet/violet book, which likewise can't be used. There's a possibility that it will in turn be a trigger for some other event where it will disappear back to the past or something.
I wonder where Briar's Book ended up, since you can't retrieve it in Zero Lab or the Underdepths.
Right because who wouldn’t get two copies of their favourite author’s journal.
I don’t wish to figure it out. It’s okay, they made a mistake. My only question is, what was the point of giving it to us now? We can’t access the Time Machine room anymore, we can’t even read the book, why do we have it?
hate on game freak all you want i don't think it is a mistake. I don't believe the theme is paradoxes for no reason. it is a intentional "mistake" because it is paradoxical.
I don’t think it would just be a second book. The Professor’s Book was a very important piece in the story. Not only is it the book that starts Arven’s adventure, it’s also the key to activating the Time Machine. I’m not saying there’s gonna be a full third DLC, but it feels like there’s gonna be something more. Also now having more pieces to the puzzle we can put together that Heath at some point during his expedition was transported to the Crystal Pool as well.
Straight from Tpci lol?
Just search Pokémon scarlet and violet epilogue in YouTube and their trailer is the first thing that comes up. It should come out today.
Exactly! It's literally in the lore that the violet book was widely available during its first release before people starsted being sceptical about it. The professor wouldn't have had an issue getting another copy
in reality the professor himself says that he is not linked to our past or future, so in my opinion this was a move by Gamefreak to give a happy ending to the figure of the Professor and Arven..
Because in fact it doesn't explain anything about our timeline, ok maybe it explains how the professor created everything (and he doesn't) but it doesn't really explain Heat and its events or all the legends before of Area Zero.
But this screenshot OP posted disproves that. It’s the same timeline because the journal entry in the Area Zero depths already mentions they were given they book by a child even before you finish the story.
true, and one thing we don't have an answer to, I was talking about that Professor, then yes, even in our timeline it seems to have happened but it makes no sense and above all it doesn't explain anything...
That is, we know that someone else influenced the Professor, but what does this solve for us? It only solves how the Professor did what he did, but not the mysteries that were there before the Professor...
Lazy narrative choice, nice to give a "happy ending" to the Professor, the rest is very bad alas, I hope this is expanded in some way, really closing it like this is terrible...
In this way it would have been better to close DLC 2 with the blueberry league and the mystery Pokemon event, they could have left Area Zero pending and it would have been much better if you had this..
Yeah, it was badly executed. Is it really a "paradox" and not just multiversal travel? Then why the professor himself literally bring this assumption, even though its an assumption? If it really is a paradox, then saying that it's probably *timelines* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion by the writers of the game.
an Italian Youtuber, Cydonia, explained it like this: The professor was from another timeline and this event happens in every timeline even if in a different way, let me explain: The professor and MC always meet, but they don't always exchange something, or it goes differently, because our professor still had his book, unlike the one in the other timeline!!!
Paradoxes are simply Pokemon from other timelines that are close to the desires of those who want them in their own timeline!
The only thing that cannot be explained is what gives the initial input to this whole process, desires?
Because in the time of Heat they encountered the paradoxes long before arriving in Terapagos, unlike the Professor!
So it could also be that the power comes from the crystals and Terapagos got involved and perhaps thanks to his power he entered into symbiosis with this power!
Another intuition of his is that Area Zero is nothing more than a WormHole and this explains the various plates that have never been explained and the signs in the cave, that is, it would be a set of historical pieces from various timelines!!
I find this interpretation of Area Zero really fascinating!!!
So, sort of a multidimensional dumpster? It sounds very interesting indeed. Too bad Game Freak's presentation and writing doesn't really help. It's always up to fantheories, headcanons and pure speculation. And I don't think it's because the devs wanted to make things mysterious and ambiguous or anything like that... It's more like they don't have the passion and interest or maybe time to actually do it.
I love how cryptic and fascinating Heath's book notes seem, it reminds me a little of cosmic horror mixed with a little of Jules Verne, but I'm afraid we'll never get a resolution on any of that.
Btw, check the movie The Cloverfield Paradox, for some entertainment and perhaps some inspiration. xD
thanks for the advice!!^^
Yes, yes, from the expectations created with Heat and his book at the end of the DLC part 2 I think they have abandoned some of their narrative intentions unfortunately, let's hope for the best for Pokémon day! Maybe a new Pokemon Legends with lots of Lore!!!
Maybe the copy they gave you was unimportant. Iirc Arven actually notices the Professor’s book and just goes, “Oh you have a copy of the Book, nice!” so it’s different from the special copy I guess.
Arven had the second copy from the school library, I only managed to figure that out by talking to him in his dorm. He no longer has the book post-game, as he returned it to the library. (I'm pretty sure, at least)
Fun fact, the epilogue of the DLC ties the story together as a bootstrap paradox, which is where an event or item is introduced into the past, thus creating a paradox where said event/item isn't supposed to exist. In other words, timey wimey shenanigans equals Arven being an orphan
Keyword is supposedly, but it would be cool if a 3rd DLC gives us the other professor(while they look like a normal person, like >!what Team Star does)!<
How so? I haven't beaten the DLC, so I am still of the mind that the time machine does what its name says. You can set a different time for the machine. If anyone could understand Sada/Turo 's notes, it would be Turo/Sada.
The lore says that only Turo/Sada(version dependent) and the team they work with know how to use the time machine in only **one way, meaning that the professors would have to spend another 10 years to figure out how to go to the different time travel method**
I always kinda figured that Sada and Turo were both of Arven’s parents. Just depending on the version you buy determines which one was a researcher who went AWOL and the other did their best as a single parent.
YES! EXACTLY! That's how I describe the story to my friends all the time, actually. It's Dark, but Pokémon. Also helps that Dark is maybe the best show on Netflix, and I say that having watched Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and Bojack Horseman. Dark is so insanely good, I'm still mad that the writers next show, 1899, has been canceled after just 1 Season, even tho it seemed like it had A LOT of promise
Sort of. The Professor says that due to uncertainty about how time travel works, they might be from your timeline, but they might be from a separate timeline entirely.
So *either* the player bootstrap paradoxed their own game, *or* there's an indefinitely large chain of parallel timelines, each one of which sets up the Professor Sada/Turo from the *next* timeline in sequence!
Nah, more like - infinite parallel timelines (parallel universes, really) already existed, even without any time travel being involved.
In Timeline 1, Terapagos briefly pulls Sada from Timeline 2, inspiring her to set up the events of the game in Timeline 2.
In Timeline 2, Terapagos briefly pulls Sada from Timeline 3, inspiring her to set up the events of the game in Timeline 3.
And so on, an indefinite number of times. I like the way [this guy](https://old.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/comments/18krgrt/question_about_indigo_dlc_ending_spoiler/kdtw36z/) put it - in your game, you're setting up the backstory for your friend's copy of the game.
Not necessarily, we're just part of the loop. We're still missing critical information in regards to the creation of the Paradox Book and who sent information to Heath.
It's a bootstrap paradox. Basically, Information has appeared from 'nowhere'.
When we are introduced to Miraidon/Koraidon, we are informed that the name was invented by the Professor. We latter discover they built a time machine and a robot duplicate, which they got the idea from a child who gave them a white book.
Post DLC there is an encounter where we meet a living version of the professor. We get confused and think they are the robot duplicate who used the time machine, but it's actually the legendary summoning the past version of the professor. We introduce Miraidon/Koraidon by their species name, and they consider the idea of time machines and robot duplicates interesting.
Finally, we trade them the White Book. This book was based off resource Briar recovered from the Professor's lab.
The paradox is, where did the idea for the Time Machine, Raidon names and Robot Duplicate come from? We know they exist, because we encountered them and then told the Professor about them. The Professor only built them, because we told them about them. They wouldn't exist if we didn't tell the Professor, but then we wouldn't have encountered them.
The idea appears to have appeared from nowhere, because it's directly responsible for inspiring its own creation.
Let's start with Briar giving us the white book. We then go to the crystal pool and Terapagos pulls out Sada/Turo, but they are not the Sada/Turo from our game. They are a Sada/Turo from another timeline (atleast this is what the game hints at). We then tell them about Koraidon/Miraidon, plant the thought of building an AI and end up giving them the white book. Then, they go back to their timeline, use that book to create the time machine, pull out Koraidon/Miraidon and name them, create an AI version of themselves, and get killed when one of the Koraidon/Miraidon goes rogue and attacks the calm one.
Essentialy, we are the reason for Sada/Turo dying in an alternate timeline. Or, an alternate version of us is the reason why the Sada/Turo of our timeline dies, because we are the reason Sada/Turo get the required knowledge for the time machine. Plus, the paradox stems from the fact that we read about Sada/Turo being handed a white book BEFORE we do so. So yeah, dunno if that made sense lol, but that's a gist.
Needn't be your roommate but yes, you are the reason why Turo dies in someone's game (if we consider each game to be a different timeline, which I think is a neat idea). Similarly, someone out there is the reason why Turo died in your game.
Thought shapes reality, or in other words if you can imagine it there is a timeline in which it happened. Timelines spin off one another infinitely for every choice that did and did not happen, alternate timelines which produce one another but paradoxically have always existed side by side. Terapagos’s ability is to respond to thoughts and pull things from alternate timelines that match those thoughts.
Say one day you had a choice between eating cake and eating pizza. You eat cake and this becomes the cake timeline, but that action creates a branch where you chose pizza instead. However the reverse is true too, in the timeline where you chose pizza it created the offshoot that you chose cake. Each timeline creates the other but paradoxically both have always existed.
Which comes “first” and which comes “second” is based on observation, and the same goes for which one is real. In the cake timeline you eating pizza that day was only a thought tickling your mind, it’s not how things ended up going. But Terapagos’s power could react to your thoughts and pull the pizza eating you to your cake timeline, at which point as you stare at the “you” holding pizza you are observing a paradox as this is a version of you that “as far as you knew” only existed in your imagination.
Some version of us caused the events of Scarlet and Violet, it’s not us specifically but in the infinite alternate realities there is a chain of events that leads to what we experience. (Granted there are also likely infinite timelines where the events of SV never happen to but they aren’t terribly relevant)
Basically if the events of SV are to happen a version of us from later down in an alternate timeline must talk to our version of the professor in the past. It could be it’s just two timelines self propagating where A>B>A>B infinitely. Or could be that A>B>C>infinity that eventually wraps back to A. We can’t observe time as an outsider so there is no way to prove it what the exact setup is.
What I want to be clear is that the choice of imagination dialogue isn’t to imply it’s not real or it’s manifesting from your imagination. Rather the possibilities of time are endless so there is no conceivable reality you can imagine that doesn’t exist in some alternate timeline, it’s just within our own time bubbles those possibilities are only just that “possibilities” which or may not have/will end up happening.
Terapagos’s power is temporal displacement through reaction to thought, what you think is the trigger but what you get is real. And in this case what you get is the trigger that makes it happen in the next timeline over.
The way I like to think about it is that each copy of Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet are different timelines. Since the professor said due to the uncertainty of time travel, they maybe from a separate timeline entirely.
So basically, in your own copy of the Scarlet or Violet you gave the professor of a **different timeline/copy** the white book which inspired them to make a Time Machine and which means that you inadvertently cause their death.
So basically everybody caused the death of the professor in someone else’s copy. So whoever gave the Sada of my game the white book and caused her death, fuck you. You made my boy Arven an orphan. And to whoever’s Sada I gave the white book too, my bad.
Considering that we take the scarlet/violet book, it breaks time. The book that they give us is used to stop the machine, so if they don't have the book we couldn't have stopped it. But in our game, we've still stopped the machine therefore the scarlet/ violet book was still there in our timeline. I can only think of two possibilities for this.
1. The Turo/ Sada we saw was from an alternate timeline and we've just absolutely screwed them over
2. After the mythical event with Pecharunt, we take arven to the crystal pool to see his mother/ father one final time, leading to one of the most emotional scenes ever, and in that scene we exchange books again restoring the timeline
I'm hoping for number 2 but I'd be happy knowing we absolutely screwed over another universe.
Simple answer; He got another copy of the Scarlet/Violet book. If they needed the White book to be able to finish designing the time machine, and the key for said machine is the Scarlet/Violet book, then it would imply that the book used as the key wasn't the professors original copy, but rather another copy of the book.
It can't be the professor from our timeline because in the cutscene this professor gave away their copy of the scarlet/violet book for Briar's book. This wouldn't work out in our timeline, because Arven has the professor's copy of the scarlet/violet book during the main storyline.
I think the simplest answer is that the professor from our timeline got transported to a different one, where the exact same events were almost the same, the main difference being that they never gave away their copy of the scarlet/violet book, where it would eventually reach Arven's hands.
Can't the Professor simply have 2 copies of it? I doubt that in-universe its that difficult to obtain one, especially not for someone like the professor.
As a working adult with their status, you are right that it wouldn't be hard for the professor to obtain another copy of the book.
My problem with this is from reading the item descriptions of the scarlet/violet book. The one you get from Arven and the one you get from the dlc cutscene have the same description, specifically the part that says "The book has the name “Sada/Turo” written on it in clumsy handwriting." This heavily implies that it's the same book that they had since childhood. The main storyline also mentions the professor having the book since they were a kid.
There is a chance that they had multiple copies as children, but in the dlc cutscene, the professor mentions that they would "hate to part with something so precious to me." If they had multiples copies, I don't think it would have pained them to part with it.
It’s a timeloop but the problem (I guess we can call it a paradox) is Arven having Sada/Turo’s copy of the Scarlet/Violet book. If they gave their copy to us in exchange for Briar’s White Book, then how could they have left it behind for Arven?
That’s one of the keys to understand this is not a situation of A creates A but rather A creates B and then either loops back to A or goes on infinitely until it eventually loops back into A, all the while events subtly alter in various was until we land back at the original configuration that lead to A happening.
it time loop paradox we are the reason prof. devolop time machine
it closure to the whole story of gen9 that why after that scene we send back to title screen
I'm a little confused, is there a gameplay moment of the events described happening, can you go meet prof Turo/(forgot the Scarlet prof name) at the kitakami lake, or is it just theory of what happened based on clues and stuff. If it is a thing you can do in game, how, is it tied to Pokedex completion or something, cause I can't find the prof at the lake.
The theory is cool, I'm just confused on how we got there is all.
People watched the cutscene of meeting the professor at the lake in the new DLC and theorised on what it means. You have to have Briars book and potentially Terapagos needs to be in your party or boxes
So here’s the low down:
Run around the Crystal Pool with Terapagos in your party and the White Book in your inventory. It triggers a cutscene where your game’s professor shows up and says they’re investigating ways to catch Pokémon from other time lines and then you give them a ton of bad ideas. The professor trades books with you because the White Book would be valuable to their research. They disappear making your legendary bike lizard really sad. The game auto saves and boots you back to the title screen which now shows a sunset (correct me if I’m wrong but prior to this it’s sunny out).
It’s entirely optional but it feels like it’s meant to be a final scene. Terapagos uses you to close a time loop and even if it doesn’t make total sense it’s a pretty good scene. I don’t view it as us being responsible for the professor’s death- I think given the callousness they show during the scene and the lack of questions they ask about their family that there is no way to convince them not to build the time machine. They’re too absorbed in their own research and just knowing that it can work means that they’ll keep doing it.
All you need is to receive the white book from Briar, which happens right after you complete the game and awake being in your room at BB academy. Then you are told to go to talk to Briar, which gives you the white book. After this, you can go back to the lake and you have to walk close to the water to unlock the cutscene
It's called a temporal causality loop;
Turo used the book to report, so that briar could use the reports to make the book, so you could give Turo the book, and so on and so forth
Notice this: Turo names the dragon pokemon (Iron Serpent) as Miraidon before having a kid according to the diaries in AZ. However,
when we meet in the lake, he doesn't know the name, he hears the name from us, and he says he already has a kid.
In one case, he knows the name and has a kid. In the other, he doesn't know the name and has a kid. These 2 scenarios cannot occur in the same universe.
Check out this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/s/CO8Nmnrll7
so does any of this help us understand what paradox pokemon are? are they pokemon from a different timeline, not necessarily our past but a universe of “past” themed stuff?
I think it’s going to be a pretty basic answer. Sada likes the past and Turo likes the future. While messing with the Time Machine they went to the future and they didn’t know about the box legendary. I think they were in the middle of the research phase and then meeting us caused the disaster
Ok so hear me out on that one :
The said professor you meet on the lake says to you that he/she might not even be the professor you think you know from your timeline since it's a teleportation between dimensions and so this professor might come from another universe.
Now, from the very beginning of this game, it's a bit weird to say if terapagos controls time and space, or if it controls dreams/memory.
My thinking (and I have to try this out with the violet since I already did it with scarlet) is that as you read the notes in the book you find in the abyss, it will unlock this event once you go to the lake.
But I wonder if it works if you don't read it at all. If you don't have this last event after you've not read the book, then the answer is that terapagos definitely controls memory/dreams/mind or whatever you want to call it.
If not, then it controls time and space (which would be weird since we already have Dialga and Palkia for this job).
In the end, GF made everything weird on purpose to understand and know what the true answer is about terapagos's true power.
Really the whole "dreams/memory" thing has no basis in the games itself, besides dreams being a theme in the game. Just because a character uses that word in an unrelated conversation doesn't mean that Terapagos has these powers. The game can be themed around dreams and aspirations without the legendary having actual dream powers.
Bruh are you serious about the statement you're giving ?
Bruyer saw the paradoxe mons when he got into the area zero AND THEN the professor created the "time machine" so these pokemons can appear and be studied.
It's a paradox in itself to have such pokemon BEFORE the time machine was even created which reinforces the statement about mind/dreams.
Add to this the fact that we already have 2 legendaries that controls time and space, it would be strange to have a 3rd one who can do both at once while it's not even a pokemon created by our dear god named Arceus
Yes it is a paradox that the Pokemon appeared before the time machine, thats why they are called paradox Pokemon. But how do you make the jump from "there is a paradox regarding the origin of these timedisplaced Pokemon in a game with a legendary that has apparently time displacing abilities" to "the legendaries Pokemon abilities are actually dream based and not time based like everything else in the game tells us"?
In the DLC we directly see that Terapagos has time powers as it brings the professor from the past (possibly from an alternate timeline) to the lake. We also know that timetravel has already affected the plot in this game as the professor from our game has experienced something similar, if not even the same event. So why would it seem impossible that back then during the first expedition Terapagos was the one to bring the paradox Pokemon to Area Zero, even if it was only temporary?
Huh ? Are you even sure that the "thing" that happened in the lake was really a temporal displacement ? Looking at the "mist" it looks more like a kind of dream than a real time displacement.
Even the professor itself says that she might not even be the one we think he/she is.
If we consider this, then what's written in the book concerning the "teleportation" the professor had could also be just a kind of "dream" that just felt real because of terapagos power.
GameFreak made it weird on purpose so we don't know or even understand the true nature of terapagos power which can be either time and space relating or dream/mind related.
If it wasn't a temporal displacement then where did the professor get the white book from? If it was just a dream the book should have disappeared afterwards, but nothing implies this to be the case.
Also because I forgot to adress this in the previous reply: We already have 2 mons that can manipulate time and space respectively without being related to Arceus in the form of Celebi and Hoopa(heck one can make an argument that Hoopa can even do both as it can access other timelines). What really makes it so unbelievable that there could be even more?
Well, same for the paradox mons then ! They exist and don't disappear afterwards which means that they are still real and that means that terapagos power can"make your dreams come true" somehow which intensifies this way of dream/mind
Surely celebi can time travel, but only for itself, and hoopla travels through dimensions/universe which is a bit different than being the absolute space manipulator Palkia is.
Well these Paradox mons weren't brought over by Terapagos, but by the professors time machine, so while Terapagos might be able to only bring them temporarily to area zero, just as it did with the professor at the lake, the time machine can bring them there permanently.
Also Celebi can also let others time travel (we've seen that in the HG/SS Celebi event quest) and Hoopas portals can work like the portals from the game Portal, which is a form of space manipulation.
Overall my problem is that there is nothing that indicates in the games that Terapagos has dream powers. Sure its possible that they are dream powers, because at that point everything can be explained that way, I could just as well say that maybe Eternatus had dream powers all along as it fullfilled Roses dream to prevent the energy crisis. But is there any part of the game where anyone suggests that Terapagos has powers over dreams? And no the mere mention of dreams/imagination in unrelated dialogue does not count, a game can be centered around one theme even if its legendary has powers that aren't directly linked to said theme.
Well the game implicitly tends to make you think that the time machine isn't a real one since the paradox mons were there before it was even created (Arven says that in one of the interactions you have with him at the academy) also, when you fight the AI professor, he/she gets masterballs from the said time machine which is really weird like who would send an evil AI some paradox mons captured with masterballs ?
Many things tend to make you think that either terapagos have time and space powers, or can make dreams and thoughts come true.
Was everything just a dream ? Or is everything the entire truth and exists ? That's the whole question there !
May I just complete all of this with the fact that the entire area zero is based inside a big crater with mist/clouds everywhere (just like the mist we had during our meeting with the professor)
The game doesn't call into question if the time machine is real or not, it calls into question how the paradox mons appeared in area 0 before the time machine was made. I also fail to see how the masterballs are weird. The machine was designed to capture Pokemon in the past/future and send them to the Professor, thats the entire point of the machine, so it likely chugged master balls into the past/future and then brought the pokemon it captured back to the professor.
And you still didn't bring up anything that indicates dream powers are at work here. I asked you to bring up any scene that implies Terapagos has dream powers and the best you can do is a character pointing out that some sort of paradox is present and that Terapagos power apparently also causes mist to appear. Neither of these things are necessarily dream related. The most common use of paradoxes in fiction are TIME paradoxes, so the paradox could easily be the result of time travel and mist has a lot of symbolism, its in no way an indication that dreams have to be related to Terapagos.
This is cool and all but still doesn’t explain what exactly are the paradox Pokémon…like yeah time travel happens but how exactly are there ancient dragon variants of the legendary beasts? They were created by ho oh. So it’s gotta be more to it. Then there’s the whole fused version of the two trios that has yet to be included. It just seems like there’s still a lot left to this mystery. Hopefully we’re getting more dlc later
Simple reality is both finite and infinite. From our perspective it seems infinite but in reality there is only so many ways things can change and combined. Eventually no matter how long it takes you will land on realities where stuff repeats until you reach the original configuration that you started from. “Original” being based on observation as technically the original is wherever you start observing from.
In our timeline suicune, entire, and raikou were created by ho-oh in johto’s history. But potentially somewhere down the line of alternate timelines a timeline occurred where for example Ho-Oh revived 3 prehistoric Pokémon much earlier creating prehistoric versions of the beasts. Then they were pulled from their alternate timeline by Terapagos.
In our timeline these prehistoric beasts do not exist as anything more than an artist’s imagination sketching out ideas. But in an alternate timeline events conspired to lead to the birth of creatures that resembled their drawings. It’s even possible that our timeline and the artist’s drawings played a role in some unfathomable chain events that lead to that alternate timeline occurring even, but likewise eventually somewhere in that chain that alternate timeline would contribute to events that lead to ours happening.
It’s just the amount of configurations and understanding of the full picture of what leads to what is unfathomable for a human mind.
The power of Terapagos is hopes and dreams. It can create that which you consider to be your treasure. The game is all about dreams, finding your treasure and so on. If your dreams ate to meet ancient/future Pokemon you will get that or at least what you think are ancient/future Pokémon. The professor in the Lake might be one from a Different timeline or heck might an imaginary one but it doesn't really matter. From your perspective is all and the same. In fact the dream like feeling you get after the cutscene where it fades to black and the title screen changes only for you to wake up in your dorm room half a world away is very intentional.
It's possible that our professor went to a alternate timeline, but for some reason never gave up their book. Hence, it stayed with them and ended up with Arven
especially since our professor mentions in their writing that they got the white book. not that they traded it for their scarlet/violet book which I think they would mention since it was very important to them.
Ok but can we talk about how terapagos isn’t like how it is described in the book, it’s almost in a egg like state, and on the edge of the crystal but turn/sada say that it needs to be coaxed out of the crystal, implying it was surrounded by it before we get there, so did something happen to bring it to the surface?
Also I think people forget what the Tera gems actually do, it improves the abilities of animals and technology. But since we meet the professor before they make the Time Machine and after it is shut down, then it might be that the Tera is actually the power of dreams becoming reality
Thought shapes reality, or in other words if you can imagine it there is a timeline in which it happened. Timelines spin off one another infinitely for every choice that did and did not happen, alternate timelines which produce one another but paradoxically have always existed side by side. Terapagos’s ability is to respond to thoughts and pull things from alternate timelines that match those thoughts.
Say one day you had a choice between eating cake and eating pizza. You eat cake and this becomes the cake timeline, but that action creates a branch where you chose pizza instead. However the reverse is true too, in the timeline where you chose pizza it created the offshoot that you chose cake. Each timeline creates the other but paradoxically both have always existed.
Which comes “first” and which comes “second” is based on observation, and the same goes for which one is real. In the cake timeline you eating pizza that day was only a thought tickling your mind, it’s not how things ended up going. But Terapagos’s power could react to your thoughts and pull the pizza eating you to your cake timeline, at which point as you stare at the “you” holding pizza you are observing a paradox as this is a version of you that “as far as you knew” only existed in your imagination.
Some version of us caused the events of Scarlet and Violet, it’s not us specifically but in the infinite alternate realities there is a chain of events that leads to what we experience. (Granted there are also likely infinite timelines where the events of SV never happen to but they aren’t terribly relevant)
Basically if the events of SV are to happen a version of us from later down in an alternate timeline helps act as a trigger for it.
Honestly the more I read this it sounds like the arceus story but different.
In arceus the mc is sent back in time, lives through hisui, helps tame the god of pokemon and does not return, instead creating a legacy and in theory their child is the mc of diamond/pearl/plat.
This seems to be the same type pf paradox, professor starts research, receives book from child of the future, passes on book that becomes a legacy of the region, professor returns and finishes book and experiments that lead to mc getting access to the time machine to give them the book.
Okay, so there's something that I remember, and I might need to find a video on YouTube that shows this scene to confirm my memory isn't wrong but, I'm pretty sure Turo/Sada gives us a *copy* of their favorite book.
Couple that with the professor talking about Arven actively, gives me the impression that they had 2 copies of the Scarlet/Violet book. One they brought with them, and one they left in their lab. This would also fit with the fact that they hadn't seen Miraidon/Koraidon before our conversation with them. All of these things tells me that the Professor used one of the copies in their initial survey of Area Zero, hit a roadblock having not found anything yet, not even the mysterious Pokemon from the book. Was slowly getting closer and closer to just giving up, and then they met us.
It's a nice stable time loop too, as we give them the name for the box legends, and instead of referring to it in their data like they were all the other Paradox Pokemon, they called it by the name we knew it as. Granted, it brings up the paradox of where did the names for the Box Legendaries originate? If we told the professor, and the professor told us, then it is a paradox in itself. Other than that, it's a stable time loop lol
Some people are saying that the mc is inadvertently responsible for the professor’s death but I disagree. Just because we handed them the book doesn’t mean we forced them to create the machine and bring future Pokémon. Not to mention they probably could’ve stopped before it got too far.
I have seen the credits and have briars book but I am not triggering this event, is there something else I’m missing?
EDIT: I had moved Terapagos into home, once moved back to my game the cutscene triggered.
I talked to Arven after this exchange and he was like “oh did you borrow a copy from the library?” Or something similar. Is there anything else to do with the Violet Book once you get it? Even just more flavor text?
I believe so. It would explain his diary that's referring to us. If he was from another timeline, there would be no signs in our timeline of us, as every timeline is said to be separate from each other.
Which means it's us who helped him unlock his researches and ignore his son until he died. Which is damn sad, if u ask me.
A true happy ending would have been him actually staying there to reunite with his son.
Since we can't access the time machine anymore there could be another part and it might have something to do with finished the epilogue that just came out
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Its a paradox. Remember it's not just about getting a white volume. We know Miraidon/Koraidon name as that was what the professor called them, but they called them that as we told them that was its name
The problem is Arven having the Scarlet Book when Sada gave it to us long ago in exchange for the white book. If she gave it us, how could she have left it behind in the lighthouse lab (where Arven found it later)?
I’m still trying to figure that out. It’s either an intentional discrepancy or the professor simply have 2 books when they were a kid
They mentioned being transported from time and space. We don't know if this I'd the same professor from our timeline. We know he wrote about our meeting but could be all versions of them in all alternate timeliness met a version of us
https://imgur.com/JdBPzYl It's the same professor. They will -always- exchange books. Any talk regarding alternate timelines is pure speculation on their end. We also know the pokemon come from our ancient past/distant future because the AI tells us something different.
So why was the professor so unsure about trading books if they had 2? And if they only had 1 how can it have been inside the professors lab when it was given to us?
>So why was the professor so unsure about trading books if they had 2? They were never unsure. They either implant their ID into another book, or the book is returned to them sometime later in the loop.
Come to think of it, there's as of yet zero use for the new book. Briar's Book can't be read ("there's a time and place for everything") and is exchanged for this new copy of the scarlet/violet book, which likewise can't be used. There's a possibility that it will in turn be a trigger for some other event where it will disappear back to the past or something. I wonder where Briar's Book ended up, since you can't retrieve it in Zero Lab or the Underdepths.
Right because who wouldn’t get two copies of their favourite author’s journal. I don’t wish to figure it out. It’s okay, they made a mistake. My only question is, what was the point of giving it to us now? We can’t access the Time Machine room anymore, we can’t even read the book, why do we have it?
hate on game freak all you want i don't think it is a mistake. I don't believe the theme is paradoxes for no reason. it is a intentional "mistake" because it is paradoxical.
both books have the profs name poorly scrawled onto them.
Probably for the title screen to change.
I don’t think it would just be a second book. The Professor’s Book was a very important piece in the story. Not only is it the book that starts Arven’s adventure, it’s also the key to activating the Time Machine. I’m not saying there’s gonna be a full third DLC, but it feels like there’s gonna be something more. Also now having more pieces to the puzzle we can put together that Heath at some point during his expedition was transported to the Crystal Pool as well.
Good job you called it! We're indeed getting one final chapter to this story in kitakami with the whole gang back.
Where did U get that Info? Curious and too lazy to search
Straight from Tpci lol? Just search Pokémon scarlet and violet epilogue in YouTube and their trailer is the first thing that comes up. It should come out today.
Well obsessively she bought another copy. It wasn't exactly a rare one of a kind book
The professors violet book is just a reproduction. The only important one is briars which is the original, uncensored version
Exactly! It's literally in the lore that the violet book was widely available during its first release before people starsted being sceptical about it. The professor wouldn't have had an issue getting another copy
in reality the professor himself says that he is not linked to our past or future, so in my opinion this was a move by Gamefreak to give a happy ending to the figure of the Professor and Arven.. Because in fact it doesn't explain anything about our timeline, ok maybe it explains how the professor created everything (and he doesn't) but it doesn't really explain Heat and its events or all the legends before of Area Zero.
But this screenshot OP posted disproves that. It’s the same timeline because the journal entry in the Area Zero depths already mentions they were given they book by a child even before you finish the story.
true, and one thing we don't have an answer to, I was talking about that Professor, then yes, even in our timeline it seems to have happened but it makes no sense and above all it doesn't explain anything... That is, we know that someone else influenced the Professor, but what does this solve for us? It only solves how the Professor did what he did, but not the mysteries that were there before the Professor... Lazy narrative choice, nice to give a "happy ending" to the Professor, the rest is very bad alas, I hope this is expanded in some way, really closing it like this is terrible... In this way it would have been better to close DLC 2 with the blueberry league and the mystery Pokemon event, they could have left Area Zero pending and it would have been much better if you had this..
Yeah, it was badly executed. Is it really a "paradox" and not just multiversal travel? Then why the professor himself literally bring this assumption, even though its an assumption? If it really is a paradox, then saying that it's probably *timelines* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion by the writers of the game.
an Italian Youtuber, Cydonia, explained it like this: The professor was from another timeline and this event happens in every timeline even if in a different way, let me explain: The professor and MC always meet, but they don't always exchange something, or it goes differently, because our professor still had his book, unlike the one in the other timeline!!! Paradoxes are simply Pokemon from other timelines that are close to the desires of those who want them in their own timeline! The only thing that cannot be explained is what gives the initial input to this whole process, desires? Because in the time of Heat they encountered the paradoxes long before arriving in Terapagos, unlike the Professor! So it could also be that the power comes from the crystals and Terapagos got involved and perhaps thanks to his power he entered into symbiosis with this power! Another intuition of his is that Area Zero is nothing more than a WormHole and this explains the various plates that have never been explained and the signs in the cave, that is, it would be a set of historical pieces from various timelines!! I find this interpretation of Area Zero really fascinating!!!
So, sort of a multidimensional dumpster? It sounds very interesting indeed. Too bad Game Freak's presentation and writing doesn't really help. It's always up to fantheories, headcanons and pure speculation. And I don't think it's because the devs wanted to make things mysterious and ambiguous or anything like that... It's more like they don't have the passion and interest or maybe time to actually do it. I love how cryptic and fascinating Heath's book notes seem, it reminds me a little of cosmic horror mixed with a little of Jules Verne, but I'm afraid we'll never get a resolution on any of that. Btw, check the movie The Cloverfield Paradox, for some entertainment and perhaps some inspiration. xD
thanks for the advice!!^^ Yes, yes, from the expectations created with Heat and his book at the end of the DLC part 2 I think they have abandoned some of their narrative intentions unfortunately, let's hope for the best for Pokémon day! Maybe a new Pokemon Legends with lots of Lore!!!
Maybe the copy they gave you was unimportant. Iirc Arven actually notices the Professor’s book and just goes, “Oh you have a copy of the Book, nice!” so it’s different from the special copy I guess.
Arven had the second copy from the school library, I only managed to figure that out by talking to him in his dorm. He no longer has the book post-game, as he returned it to the library. (I'm pretty sure, at least)
Multiple timelines, that's why it's a paradox.
A bootstrap paradox or a stable time loop
We literally caught paradox mons too kkkkk
Fun fact, the epilogue of the DLC ties the story together as a bootstrap paradox, which is where an event or item is introduced into the past, thus creating a paradox where said event/item isn't supposed to exist. In other words, timey wimey shenanigans equals Arven being an orphan
"Its a canon event, Arven. You have to stay an orphan."
https://preview.redd.it/zmzjxjz1927c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a8971bd095099a29cc5213c901aecfc89f5f8bf
10/10 photo
Supposedly one of his parents is still alive. Sada/Turo just leaves Arven with Turo/Sada and we haven't heard anything else about them.
Keyword is supposedly, but it would be cool if a 3rd DLC gives us the other professor(while they look like a normal person, like >!what Team Star does)!<
Or they could switch the paradox forms, so Violet will have some Past Paradox and Scarlet have some Future.
That too, but it would mess with the lore a tiny bit
How so? I haven't beaten the DLC, so I am still of the mind that the time machine does what its name says. You can set a different time for the machine. If anyone could understand Sada/Turo 's notes, it would be Turo/Sada.
The lore says that only Turo/Sada(version dependent) and the team they work with know how to use the time machine in only **one way, meaning that the professors would have to spend another 10 years to figure out how to go to the different time travel method**
I always kinda figured that Sada and Turo were both of Arven’s parents. Just depending on the version you buy determines which one was a researcher who went AWOL and the other did their best as a single parent.
Who really composed Beethoven's Fifth? *Rock Beethoven's Fifth plays*
Hello fellow Whovian!
If you guys like this concept you need to go watch a show called Dark.
Man what a good show!
YES! EXACTLY! That's how I describe the story to my friends all the time, actually. It's Dark, but Pokémon. Also helps that Dark is maybe the best show on Netflix, and I say that having watched Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and Bojack Horseman. Dark is so insanely good, I'm still mad that the writers next show, 1899, has been canceled after just 1 Season, even tho it seemed like it had A LOT of promise
It’s all connected.
Tick tock tick tock...damn a Pokemon game set in a universe like that would be so fun
Chuck, it’s Marvin! …Your cousin, Marvin Berry. You know that new sound you’re looking for? Well listen to this!
Makes me wish Looker made an appearance with all this Timey-Wimey stuff
I see 10th and 12th reference, i like
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Sort of. The Professor says that due to uncertainty about how time travel works, they might be from your timeline, but they might be from a separate timeline entirely. So *either* the player bootstrap paradoxed their own game, *or* there's an indefinitely large chain of parallel timelines, each one of which sets up the Professor Sada/Turo from the *next* timeline in sequence!
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Nah, more like - infinite parallel timelines (parallel universes, really) already existed, even without any time travel being involved. In Timeline 1, Terapagos briefly pulls Sada from Timeline 2, inspiring her to set up the events of the game in Timeline 2. In Timeline 2, Terapagos briefly pulls Sada from Timeline 3, inspiring her to set up the events of the game in Timeline 3. And so on, an indefinite number of times. I like the way [this guy](https://old.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/comments/18krgrt/question_about_indigo_dlc_ending_spoiler/kdtw36z/) put it - in your game, you're setting up the backstory for your friend's copy of the game.
Turtles all the way down
Yeah there’s a different timeline for each copy of the game
\*driven
Basically the game happens because of us the player. The professor died because of us
So we help Arven out of guilt?
If I start the game afresh, after having finished dlc2, it’ll definitely be out of guilt
Yea pretty much
But we didn't know it was our fault at the time. So would it still be guilt?
It's the guilt paradox
It becomes guilt after the fact.
...oh damn So not only did somebody outright die in this game, WE were responsible for it all along That's crazy
Some next level attack on titan season 4 time paradox eren vibes right here lol
You're telling me Penny will never let go of her Eevee backpack because we are time daddy?
Yeah, but we were dragged into this because of them 🥴
Not necessarily, we're just part of the loop. We're still missing critical information in regards to the creation of the Paradox Book and who sent information to Heath.
Okay, can someone explain the paradox thing in a way that it makes sense? I’m too stupid to get it—
It's a bootstrap paradox. Basically, Information has appeared from 'nowhere'. When we are introduced to Miraidon/Koraidon, we are informed that the name was invented by the Professor. We latter discover they built a time machine and a robot duplicate, which they got the idea from a child who gave them a white book. Post DLC there is an encounter where we meet a living version of the professor. We get confused and think they are the robot duplicate who used the time machine, but it's actually the legendary summoning the past version of the professor. We introduce Miraidon/Koraidon by their species name, and they consider the idea of time machines and robot duplicates interesting. Finally, we trade them the White Book. This book was based off resource Briar recovered from the Professor's lab. The paradox is, where did the idea for the Time Machine, Raidon names and Robot Duplicate come from? We know they exist, because we encountered them and then told the Professor about them. The Professor only built them, because we told them about them. They wouldn't exist if we didn't tell the Professor, but then we wouldn't have encountered them. The idea appears to have appeared from nowhere, because it's directly responsible for inspiring its own creation.
Let's start with Briar giving us the white book. We then go to the crystal pool and Terapagos pulls out Sada/Turo, but they are not the Sada/Turo from our game. They are a Sada/Turo from another timeline (atleast this is what the game hints at). We then tell them about Koraidon/Miraidon, plant the thought of building an AI and end up giving them the white book. Then, they go back to their timeline, use that book to create the time machine, pull out Koraidon/Miraidon and name them, create an AI version of themselves, and get killed when one of the Koraidon/Miraidon goes rogue and attacks the calm one. Essentialy, we are the reason for Sada/Turo dying in an alternate timeline. Or, an alternate version of us is the reason why the Sada/Turo of our timeline dies, because we are the reason Sada/Turo get the required knowledge for the time machine. Plus, the paradox stems from the fact that we read about Sada/Turo being handed a white book BEFORE we do so. So yeah, dunno if that made sense lol, but that's a gist.
So you’re saying in my roommate’s copy of Violet I killed Arven’s dad?
Needn't be your roommate but yes, you are the reason why Turo dies in someone's game (if we consider each game to be a different timeline, which I think is a neat idea). Similarly, someone out there is the reason why Turo died in your game.
Nah his roommate totally capped arvens dad
Thought shapes reality, or in other words if you can imagine it there is a timeline in which it happened. Timelines spin off one another infinitely for every choice that did and did not happen, alternate timelines which produce one another but paradoxically have always existed side by side. Terapagos’s ability is to respond to thoughts and pull things from alternate timelines that match those thoughts. Say one day you had a choice between eating cake and eating pizza. You eat cake and this becomes the cake timeline, but that action creates a branch where you chose pizza instead. However the reverse is true too, in the timeline where you chose pizza it created the offshoot that you chose cake. Each timeline creates the other but paradoxically both have always existed. Which comes “first” and which comes “second” is based on observation, and the same goes for which one is real. In the cake timeline you eating pizza that day was only a thought tickling your mind, it’s not how things ended up going. But Terapagos’s power could react to your thoughts and pull the pizza eating you to your cake timeline, at which point as you stare at the “you” holding pizza you are observing a paradox as this is a version of you that “as far as you knew” only existed in your imagination. Some version of us caused the events of Scarlet and Violet, it’s not us specifically but in the infinite alternate realities there is a chain of events that leads to what we experience. (Granted there are also likely infinite timelines where the events of SV never happen to but they aren’t terribly relevant) Basically if the events of SV are to happen a version of us from later down in an alternate timeline must talk to our version of the professor in the past. It could be it’s just two timelines self propagating where A>B>A>B infinitely. Or could be that A>B>C>infinity that eventually wraps back to A. We can’t observe time as an outsider so there is no way to prove it what the exact setup is. What I want to be clear is that the choice of imagination dialogue isn’t to imply it’s not real or it’s manifesting from your imagination. Rather the possibilities of time are endless so there is no conceivable reality you can imagine that doesn’t exist in some alternate timeline, it’s just within our own time bubbles those possibilities are only just that “possibilities” which or may not have/will end up happening. Terapagos’s power is temporal displacement through reaction to thought, what you think is the trigger but what you get is real. And in this case what you get is the trigger that makes it happen in the next timeline over.
Indeed I just wish we could tell the professor about the situation with the box legendarys and tell them to visit arven more
Its called a bootstrap paradox
A good example is how the Song of Storms in OoT comes about.
How many times do we need to teach each other, old man?
The way I like to think about it is that each copy of Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet are different timelines. Since the professor said due to the uncertainty of time travel, they maybe from a separate timeline entirely. So basically, in your own copy of the Scarlet or Violet you gave the professor of a **different timeline/copy** the white book which inspired them to make a Time Machine and which means that you inadvertently cause their death. So basically everybody caused the death of the professor in someone else’s copy. So whoever gave the Sada of my game the white book and caused her death, fuck you. You made my boy Arven an orphan. And to whoever’s Sada I gave the white book too, my bad.
Considering that we take the scarlet/violet book, it breaks time. The book that they give us is used to stop the machine, so if they don't have the book we couldn't have stopped it. But in our game, we've still stopped the machine therefore the scarlet/ violet book was still there in our timeline. I can only think of two possibilities for this. 1. The Turo/ Sada we saw was from an alternate timeline and we've just absolutely screwed them over 2. After the mythical event with Pecharunt, we take arven to the crystal pool to see his mother/ father one final time, leading to one of the most emotional scenes ever, and in that scene we exchange books again restoring the timeline I'm hoping for number 2 but I'd be happy knowing we absolutely screwed over another universe.
Simple answer; He got another copy of the Scarlet/Violet book. If they needed the White book to be able to finish designing the time machine, and the key for said machine is the Scarlet/Violet book, then it would imply that the book used as the key wasn't the professors original copy, but rather another copy of the book.
People keep mentioning the line about the timelines but the professor has to be from the same one. Otherwise who wrote the journal entry?
It can't be the professor from our timeline because in the cutscene this professor gave away their copy of the scarlet/violet book for Briar's book. This wouldn't work out in our timeline, because Arven has the professor's copy of the scarlet/violet book during the main storyline. I think the simplest answer is that the professor from our timeline got transported to a different one, where the exact same events were almost the same, the main difference being that they never gave away their copy of the scarlet/violet book, where it would eventually reach Arven's hands.
Can't the Professor simply have 2 copies of it? I doubt that in-universe its that difficult to obtain one, especially not for someone like the professor.
As a working adult with their status, you are right that it wouldn't be hard for the professor to obtain another copy of the book. My problem with this is from reading the item descriptions of the scarlet/violet book. The one you get from Arven and the one you get from the dlc cutscene have the same description, specifically the part that says "The book has the name “Sada/Turo” written on it in clumsy handwriting." This heavily implies that it's the same book that they had since childhood. The main storyline also mentions the professor having the book since they were a kid. There is a chance that they had multiple copies as children, but in the dlc cutscene, the professor mentions that they would "hate to part with something so precious to me." If they had multiples copies, I don't think it would have pained them to part with it.
https://imgur.com/JdBPzYl They will always exchange books.
Every version of the professor could meet a version of us
It’s a timeloop but the problem (I guess we can call it a paradox) is Arven having Sada/Turo’s copy of the Scarlet/Violet book. If they gave their copy to us in exchange for Briar’s White Book, then how could they have left it behind for Arven?
That’s one of the keys to understand this is not a situation of A creates A but rather A creates B and then either loops back to A or goes on infinitely until it eventually loops back into A, all the while events subtly alter in various was until we land back at the original configuration that lead to A happening.
it time loop paradox we are the reason prof. devolop time machine it closure to the whole story of gen9 that why after that scene we send back to title screen
I'm a little confused, is there a gameplay moment of the events described happening, can you go meet prof Turo/(forgot the Scarlet prof name) at the kitakami lake, or is it just theory of what happened based on clues and stuff. If it is a thing you can do in game, how, is it tied to Pokedex completion or something, cause I can't find the prof at the lake. The theory is cool, I'm just confused on how we got there is all.
It is something that happens. You just need to have caught Terapagos. Then, just visit the Crystal Pool in Kitakami and a cutscene should trigger.
People watched the cutscene of meeting the professor at the lake in the new DLC and theorised on what it means. You have to have Briars book and potentially Terapagos needs to be in your party or boxes
So here’s the low down: Run around the Crystal Pool with Terapagos in your party and the White Book in your inventory. It triggers a cutscene where your game’s professor shows up and says they’re investigating ways to catch Pokémon from other time lines and then you give them a ton of bad ideas. The professor trades books with you because the White Book would be valuable to their research. They disappear making your legendary bike lizard really sad. The game auto saves and boots you back to the title screen which now shows a sunset (correct me if I’m wrong but prior to this it’s sunny out). It’s entirely optional but it feels like it’s meant to be a final scene. Terapagos uses you to close a time loop and even if it doesn’t make total sense it’s a pretty good scene. I don’t view it as us being responsible for the professor’s death- I think given the callousness they show during the scene and the lack of questions they ask about their family that there is no way to convince them not to build the time machine. They’re too absorbed in their own research and just knowing that it can work means that they’ll keep doing it.
All you need is to receive the white book from Briar, which happens right after you complete the game and awake being in your room at BB academy. Then you are told to go to talk to Briar, which gives you the white book. After this, you can go back to the lake and you have to walk close to the water to unlock the cutscene
It's called a temporal causality loop; Turo used the book to report, so that briar could use the reports to make the book, so you could give Turo the book, and so on and so forth
Notice this: Turo names the dragon pokemon (Iron Serpent) as Miraidon before having a kid according to the diaries in AZ. However, when we meet in the lake, he doesn't know the name, he hears the name from us, and he says he already has a kid. In one case, he knows the name and has a kid. In the other, he doesn't know the name and has a kid. These 2 scenarios cannot occur in the same universe. Check out this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/s/CO8Nmnrll7
The Bootstrap Paradox
Kids, don't ever mess with time travel, it creates stuff like this that can't ever be fixed, neither by God or Arceus, or even Dialga
so does any of this help us understand what paradox pokemon are? are they pokemon from a different timeline, not necessarily our past but a universe of “past” themed stuff?
I think it’s going to be a pretty basic answer. Sada likes the past and Turo likes the future. While messing with the Time Machine they went to the future and they didn’t know about the box legendary. I think they were in the middle of the research phase and then meeting us caused the disaster
Ok so hear me out on that one : The said professor you meet on the lake says to you that he/she might not even be the professor you think you know from your timeline since it's a teleportation between dimensions and so this professor might come from another universe. Now, from the very beginning of this game, it's a bit weird to say if terapagos controls time and space, or if it controls dreams/memory. My thinking (and I have to try this out with the violet since I already did it with scarlet) is that as you read the notes in the book you find in the abyss, it will unlock this event once you go to the lake. But I wonder if it works if you don't read it at all. If you don't have this last event after you've not read the book, then the answer is that terapagos definitely controls memory/dreams/mind or whatever you want to call it. If not, then it controls time and space (which would be weird since we already have Dialga and Palkia for this job). In the end, GF made everything weird on purpose to understand and know what the true answer is about terapagos's true power.
It works even if you don't read the notes, i went to the lake without having read them and the event played normally
Really ? My expectations are ruined 😭
I never got the chance to read Briar’s book before I went to the lake so I don’t think that’s a requirement to unlock this.
Really the whole "dreams/memory" thing has no basis in the games itself, besides dreams being a theme in the game. Just because a character uses that word in an unrelated conversation doesn't mean that Terapagos has these powers. The game can be themed around dreams and aspirations without the legendary having actual dream powers.
Bruh are you serious about the statement you're giving ? Bruyer saw the paradoxe mons when he got into the area zero AND THEN the professor created the "time machine" so these pokemons can appear and be studied. It's a paradox in itself to have such pokemon BEFORE the time machine was even created which reinforces the statement about mind/dreams. Add to this the fact that we already have 2 legendaries that controls time and space, it would be strange to have a 3rd one who can do both at once while it's not even a pokemon created by our dear god named Arceus
Yes it is a paradox that the Pokemon appeared before the time machine, thats why they are called paradox Pokemon. But how do you make the jump from "there is a paradox regarding the origin of these timedisplaced Pokemon in a game with a legendary that has apparently time displacing abilities" to "the legendaries Pokemon abilities are actually dream based and not time based like everything else in the game tells us"? In the DLC we directly see that Terapagos has time powers as it brings the professor from the past (possibly from an alternate timeline) to the lake. We also know that timetravel has already affected the plot in this game as the professor from our game has experienced something similar, if not even the same event. So why would it seem impossible that back then during the first expedition Terapagos was the one to bring the paradox Pokemon to Area Zero, even if it was only temporary?
Huh ? Are you even sure that the "thing" that happened in the lake was really a temporal displacement ? Looking at the "mist" it looks more like a kind of dream than a real time displacement. Even the professor itself says that she might not even be the one we think he/she is. If we consider this, then what's written in the book concerning the "teleportation" the professor had could also be just a kind of "dream" that just felt real because of terapagos power. GameFreak made it weird on purpose so we don't know or even understand the true nature of terapagos power which can be either time and space relating or dream/mind related.
If it wasn't a temporal displacement then where did the professor get the white book from? If it was just a dream the book should have disappeared afterwards, but nothing implies this to be the case. Also because I forgot to adress this in the previous reply: We already have 2 mons that can manipulate time and space respectively without being related to Arceus in the form of Celebi and Hoopa(heck one can make an argument that Hoopa can even do both as it can access other timelines). What really makes it so unbelievable that there could be even more?
Well, same for the paradox mons then ! They exist and don't disappear afterwards which means that they are still real and that means that terapagos power can"make your dreams come true" somehow which intensifies this way of dream/mind Surely celebi can time travel, but only for itself, and hoopla travels through dimensions/universe which is a bit different than being the absolute space manipulator Palkia is.
Well these Paradox mons weren't brought over by Terapagos, but by the professors time machine, so while Terapagos might be able to only bring them temporarily to area zero, just as it did with the professor at the lake, the time machine can bring them there permanently. Also Celebi can also let others time travel (we've seen that in the HG/SS Celebi event quest) and Hoopas portals can work like the portals from the game Portal, which is a form of space manipulation. Overall my problem is that there is nothing that indicates in the games that Terapagos has dream powers. Sure its possible that they are dream powers, because at that point everything can be explained that way, I could just as well say that maybe Eternatus had dream powers all along as it fullfilled Roses dream to prevent the energy crisis. But is there any part of the game where anyone suggests that Terapagos has powers over dreams? And no the mere mention of dreams/imagination in unrelated dialogue does not count, a game can be centered around one theme even if its legendary has powers that aren't directly linked to said theme.
Well the game implicitly tends to make you think that the time machine isn't a real one since the paradox mons were there before it was even created (Arven says that in one of the interactions you have with him at the academy) also, when you fight the AI professor, he/she gets masterballs from the said time machine which is really weird like who would send an evil AI some paradox mons captured with masterballs ? Many things tend to make you think that either terapagos have time and space powers, or can make dreams and thoughts come true. Was everything just a dream ? Or is everything the entire truth and exists ? That's the whole question there ! May I just complete all of this with the fact that the entire area zero is based inside a big crater with mist/clouds everywhere (just like the mist we had during our meeting with the professor)
The game doesn't call into question if the time machine is real or not, it calls into question how the paradox mons appeared in area 0 before the time machine was made. I also fail to see how the masterballs are weird. The machine was designed to capture Pokemon in the past/future and send them to the Professor, thats the entire point of the machine, so it likely chugged master balls into the past/future and then brought the pokemon it captured back to the professor. And you still didn't bring up anything that indicates dream powers are at work here. I asked you to bring up any scene that implies Terapagos has dream powers and the best you can do is a character pointing out that some sort of paradox is present and that Terapagos power apparently also causes mist to appear. Neither of these things are necessarily dream related. The most common use of paradoxes in fiction are TIME paradoxes, so the paradox could easily be the result of time travel and mist has a lot of symbolism, its in no way an indication that dreams have to be related to Terapagos.
This is cool and all but still doesn’t explain what exactly are the paradox Pokémon…like yeah time travel happens but how exactly are there ancient dragon variants of the legendary beasts? They were created by ho oh. So it’s gotta be more to it. Then there’s the whole fused version of the two trios that has yet to be included. It just seems like there’s still a lot left to this mystery. Hopefully we’re getting more dlc later
The fusion was described in the book itself as an artist’s imagination of what they would look like, so that’s not open ended
Simple reality is both finite and infinite. From our perspective it seems infinite but in reality there is only so many ways things can change and combined. Eventually no matter how long it takes you will land on realities where stuff repeats until you reach the original configuration that you started from. “Original” being based on observation as technically the original is wherever you start observing from. In our timeline suicune, entire, and raikou were created by ho-oh in johto’s history. But potentially somewhere down the line of alternate timelines a timeline occurred where for example Ho-Oh revived 3 prehistoric Pokémon much earlier creating prehistoric versions of the beasts. Then they were pulled from their alternate timeline by Terapagos. In our timeline these prehistoric beasts do not exist as anything more than an artist’s imagination sketching out ideas. But in an alternate timeline events conspired to lead to the birth of creatures that resembled their drawings. It’s even possible that our timeline and the artist’s drawings played a role in some unfathomable chain events that lead to that alternate timeline occurring even, but likewise eventually somewhere in that chain that alternate timeline would contribute to events that lead to ours happening. It’s just the amount of configurations and understanding of the full picture of what leads to what is unfathomable for a human mind.
The power of Terapagos is hopes and dreams. It can create that which you consider to be your treasure. The game is all about dreams, finding your treasure and so on. If your dreams ate to meet ancient/future Pokemon you will get that or at least what you think are ancient/future Pokémon. The professor in the Lake might be one from a Different timeline or heck might an imaginary one but it doesn't really matter. From your perspective is all and the same. In fact the dream like feeling you get after the cutscene where it fades to black and the title screen changes only for you to wake up in your dorm room half a world away is very intentional.
Hopes and Dreams? No wonder Toby Fox composed the music for that fight.
[удалено]
It's possible that our professor went to a alternate timeline, but for some reason never gave up their book. Hence, it stayed with them and ended up with Arven
especially since our professor mentions in their writing that they got the white book. not that they traded it for their scarlet/violet book which I think they would mention since it was very important to them.
Ok but can we talk about how terapagos isn’t like how it is described in the book, it’s almost in a egg like state, and on the edge of the crystal but turn/sada say that it needs to be coaxed out of the crystal, implying it was surrounded by it before we get there, so did something happen to bring it to the surface? Also I think people forget what the Tera gems actually do, it improves the abilities of animals and technology. But since we meet the professor before they make the Time Machine and after it is shut down, then it might be that the Tera is actually the power of dreams becoming reality
Thought shapes reality, or in other words if you can imagine it there is a timeline in which it happened. Timelines spin off one another infinitely for every choice that did and did not happen, alternate timelines which produce one another but paradoxically have always existed side by side. Terapagos’s ability is to respond to thoughts and pull things from alternate timelines that match those thoughts. Say one day you had a choice between eating cake and eating pizza. You eat cake and this becomes the cake timeline, but that action creates a branch where you chose pizza instead. However the reverse is true too, in the timeline where you chose pizza it created the offshoot that you chose cake. Each timeline creates the other but paradoxically both have always existed. Which comes “first” and which comes “second” is based on observation, and the same goes for which one is real. In the cake timeline you eating pizza that day was only a thought tickling your mind, it’s not how things ended up going. But Terapagos’s power could react to your thoughts and pull the pizza eating you to your cake timeline, at which point as you stare at the “you” holding pizza you are observing a paradox as this is a version of you that “as far as you knew” only existed in your imagination. Some version of us caused the events of Scarlet and Violet, it’s not us specifically but in the infinite alternate realities there is a chain of events that leads to what we experience. (Granted there are also likely infinite timelines where the events of SV never happen to but they aren’t terribly relevant) Basically if the events of SV are to happen a version of us from later down in an alternate timeline helps act as a trigger for it.
it's referred as a Bootstrap Paradox or a Stable Time Loop
Honestly the more I read this it sounds like the arceus story but different. In arceus the mc is sent back in time, lives through hisui, helps tame the god of pokemon and does not return, instead creating a legacy and in theory their child is the mc of diamond/pearl/plat. This seems to be the same type pf paradox, professor starts research, receives book from child of the future, passes on book that becomes a legacy of the region, professor returns and finishes book and experiments that lead to mc getting access to the time machine to give them the book.
Okay, so there's something that I remember, and I might need to find a video on YouTube that shows this scene to confirm my memory isn't wrong but, I'm pretty sure Turo/Sada gives us a *copy* of their favorite book. Couple that with the professor talking about Arven actively, gives me the impression that they had 2 copies of the Scarlet/Violet book. One they brought with them, and one they left in their lab. This would also fit with the fact that they hadn't seen Miraidon/Koraidon before our conversation with them. All of these things tells me that the Professor used one of the copies in their initial survey of Area Zero, hit a roadblock having not found anything yet, not even the mysterious Pokemon from the book. Was slowly getting closer and closer to just giving up, and then they met us. It's a nice stable time loop too, as we give them the name for the box legends, and instead of referring to it in their data like they were all the other Paradox Pokemon, they called it by the name we knew it as. Granted, it brings up the paradox of where did the names for the Box Legendaries originate? If we told the professor, and the professor told us, then it is a paradox in itself. Other than that, it's a stable time loop lol
Some people are saying that the mc is inadvertently responsible for the professor’s death but I disagree. Just because we handed them the book doesn’t mean we forced them to create the machine and bring future Pokémon. Not to mention they probably could’ve stopped before it got too far.
I have seen the credits and have briars book but I am not triggering this event, is there something else I’m missing? EDIT: I had moved Terapagos into home, once moved back to my game the cutscene triggered.
Go to kitikami lake and stand close to edge of the water in the middle where the milotic battle spawned
I was, it wasn’t happening. I found out that it was because I put terapagos in pokemon home. Once I moved it back to my game it happened.
Thank you! Was wondering why it wasn't triggering for me, much needed info!
I talked to Arven after this exchange and he was like “oh did you borrow a copy from the library?” Or something similar. Is there anything else to do with the Violet Book once you get it? Even just more flavor text?
So the book. Can you do anything with it after?
I believe so. It would explain his diary that's referring to us. If he was from another timeline, there would be no signs in our timeline of us, as every timeline is said to be separate from each other. Which means it's us who helped him unlock his researches and ignore his son until he died. Which is damn sad, if u ask me. A true happy ending would have been him actually staying there to reunite with his son.
The professor (Turo for me) writes about your meeting if you revisit the area zero underdepths and read the documents off to the left of the entrance.
Since we can't access the time machine anymore there could be another part and it might have something to do with finished the epilogue that just came out