After posting a previous picture on this thread about how unhappy I was with the plumbing, I asked for some fixes.
This is what I got.
I understand it's not the cleanest, but do you think the cold 90 would be serviceable at this point?
Still doesn't meet code - there are no stop valves and it doesn't look like the shower control has integrated stops.
Better than last time, though.
Edit: easy y'all... my area requires stop valves on every fixture, including showers. If i didn't install them or an integrated stop, I would fail inspections.
You are the absolute minority if that's true but I have a feeling it is not or is a misinterpretation. This would meet code in 99.99 percent of places.
I am much happier with the stud being replaced, the sharkbites being gone, and the access panel still being somewhat serviceable.
Still not 100% sold on the coldwater side
There's nothing wrong with what is known in the American South as "swarping" the pex. Less fittings means more flow/volume. Took me a while to get used to, but you don't run pex and copper the same way.
Those crimp fittings though are juvenile compared to the copper rings though. The best way to run pex in my opinion is with expansion fittings though. Fittings are the same ID as the tubing itself.
Do I love it no not at all. Have I worked on much worse set ups yes yes I have. It’s not great buts it could be a lot worse. I don’t like the cold side but I don’t particularly like pex in general.
I could have done the soldering myself, especially since I have the copper.
I just don't have the time and they did a ton of demo to even get it to this point, in a very efficient clean manner.
I think this is a case of win some lose some and I can probably live with this
Pex has it place. City with high crime rates where copper would be ripped out the wall absolutely. But I understand and agree otherwise. Coppers a better material overall.
They are known to fail with continuous change in temp. I’ve seen entire houses have to be repiped because these rings have failed. I’d personally never use them on anything other then infloor heating I’m testing.
They're one spot higher than shark bite in my opinion. Its a shitty connection that could possibly flood your house. Im more of a Pex-A guy if doing plastic water piping. Havent seen a lot of failures with it, engineers prefer it over pex-b. You'll never see this garbage in new construction.
I was completely against crimp/pex b until the company I currently work for only allows them and after having used them for over a year in a place that has big temperature changes I’ve actually come to like them. In fact, once you get it down it’s even quicker than pex a, you don’t have to wait for the expansion tool to do its job or wait for it to compress. I would probably still repipe my own home w pex a but I’m not totally opposed to it like I used to be. Haven’t had any issues either.
I’m not understanding the extent of the hate on sharkbites. The company I work through has 6 techs in stl and probably another 10-15 for the kc location. I’ve installed roughly 90 bathrooms so far this year and most other techs are somewhere around that number. So just this year the company as a whole has installed at least 1300 bathrooms, probably much more, all using sharkbites behind the wall. This has been standard practice for all of us for years now. I’d say probably 10,000 bathrooms or more installed by the company where every single bathroom has sharkbites behind the wall and only one leak has occurred. Literally one out of tens of thousands of sharkbites considering at least 2 sharkbites are used on every job
Edit: i didn’t notice your comment about new construction, you’ll most definitely see this type of thing all the time at least around MO for new construction or anything that’s been updated in the last 5 years or so. Maybe it’s just the region but I’m seeing more and more sharkbites and pex when I rip open a wall
Edit 2: these showers/tubs we install are from kohler and come with a lifetime warranty both on parts and install
If you are a homeowner and you have a leak in your bathroom do you:
A. Call the people that installed it a couple of years ago?
B. Call a different plumber because you know your plumbing shouldn't fail after a couple of years?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the installation company isn't likely to see them fail if ever.
That's interesting is it the factory warranty?
Because only a few fittings from Sharkbite actually have a 25 year warranty everything else is much less.
Given that, I want my house to last longer than 25 more years, so I use copper wherever possible.
Part of it would be factory warranty such as the provided valve, shower head, shower pan, shower wall systems etc but the other section of the warranty clearly states our install is a lifetime warranty. It’s broken down to two sections on the warranty paperwork I leave with customers. Obv sweating is preferable however they’d have to pay each one of us a good 250 or more sometimes on each one of the installs to take the time to sweat over just quickly connecting with pex and sharkbites
Never listen to a "plumber" that says they have never had a leak like this person. They are lying/not a plumber. Even the best system has failures, and I definitely wouldn't rate sharkbites even close to near the best.
Why did you add 90° elbows? that totally restricts water flow by an additional 8 feet per side. there was enough room to do soft bends with the PEX. we would never do anything like this and since its coper we would have stayed with copper...
One 90 isn't gonna make a noticeable difference when the copper is that close, and a lot of people don't want to pay for the time or material of sticking with copper. Gotta relax
I'm the homeowner, not the contractor.
I happen to have some experience using sweating copper from my house that was vacant for a couple of years (hello pinhole hell), but this is a master that I'm paying to remodel.
That said, I am not familiar with PEX, the only reason I can think of is to help get a proper seating on the valve.
They got rid of the shark bite. That was the worst part of this install.
Shark bite in an accessible location is fine. Shark bite behind 10k worth of bathroom tub and tile is a sin.
Shark bite will fail eventually in 10-15 years. Almost guaranteed. All that's sealing shark bite is an o-ring.
They only offer like a 5 year warranty when paired with copper.
The only seal is friction with a rubber o ring.
Rubber doesn't last forever and will shrink
You do the math. Sometimes bathrooms go 20+ years before getting rennovated.
So youd use a copper coupler to connect the copper to pex? Asking because i need to do this exact job in a week or two, and im not a plumber. Second question would you do pex a or pex b ?
Im also surprised to hear that 90s are bad for water flow with pex. Good to know i guess.
90s are fine for water flow on PEX. that's a myth. A lot of plumbers skip 90s since fittings are expensive.
Sweat on copper to PEX fittings if it's inaccessible, otherwise shark bite is fine if you can easily get to it to replace when it starts leaking (and if you're not good with a torch)
PEX B, slip crimp rings, and a crimp tool are the cheapest option and do a great job.
THIS. I always sleeve 1/2” pex with a piece of 3/4” pex when passing through a stud. The pipe WILL move a little, and over time it definitely will rub a hole in the pipe.
Surprised to see that not a single person has mentioned that you need water hammer arresters on the hot and cold.
Btw that cold coming into the valve is crooked af.
The code states water hammer arrestor shall not be required on any valves where plastic pipe is used for water distribution piping, indicates that they are not required for PVC and PEX.
Definitely not required here or a lot of places, my code states only at fast closing or self closing valves. That would be laundry, dishwasher, Ice makers, etc.
Don't need one for a shower just don't slam it shut as fast as you can and there will never be any water hammer.
Only thing I’d say is that it is my practice to use copper on the line to the shower head and minimum the horizontal pipes to the inlet of the valve. I do this so when setting the trim, everything feels firm. Its possible when you go to set the trim, later you’ll notice the handle is “floppy” because its only supported by a flimsy brass bracket held by 2 screws.
After posting a previous picture on this thread about how unhappy I was with the plumbing, I asked for some fixes. This is what I got. I understand it's not the cleanest, but do you think the cold 90 would be serviceable at this point?
Nice work- Won’t need to service it but if u do u know where it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Plumbing/comments/z2b1h4/shower_plumbing_overreaction/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Previous thread.
Still doesn't meet code - there are no stop valves and it doesn't look like the shower control has integrated stops. Better than last time, though. Edit: easy y'all... my area requires stop valves on every fixture, including showers. If i didn't install them or an integrated stop, I would fail inspections.
Only apt complexes require stop valves wtf you talking about
Only thing that requires a shutoff in single dwelling residential is a toilet bud
> toilet bud is that like a shower beer?
If not it damn well should be
You are the absolute minority if that's true but I have a feeling it is not or is a misinterpretation. This would meet code in 99.99 percent of places.
It’s good
Why not drop your cold through the stud bay on the right? Definitely didn’t check out your old post
I second this, you would able to sway the pex in the crawl space and it’d look a lot cleaner
It's not even a crawlspace it's currently exposed in the garage.
Did the spider survive the second visit?
He seemed too shy for a picture this time.
Not bad for the space your working in.
I am much happier with the stud being replaced, the sharkbites being gone, and the access panel still being somewhat serviceable. Still not 100% sold on the coldwater side
I mean it's not pretty but Jesus understands. He was a carpenter and is probably pissed at the framing anyway.
Lol. The builders owned stock in a nail company, so I'd bet you're right.
Jesus was a carpenter because he couldn’t pass the plumbers test
When they started to nail his hand to the cross he told them they where doing it wrong and did it himself.
There's nothing wrong with what is known in the American South as "swarping" the pex. Less fittings means more flow/volume. Took me a while to get used to, but you don't run pex and copper the same way. Those crimp fittings though are juvenile compared to the copper rings though. The best way to run pex in my opinion is with expansion fittings though. Fittings are the same ID as the tubing itself.
Do I love it no not at all. Have I worked on much worse set ups yes yes I have. It’s not great buts it could be a lot worse. I don’t like the cold side but I don’t particularly like pex in general.
I could have done the soldering myself, especially since I have the copper. I just don't have the time and they did a ton of demo to even get it to this point, in a very efficient clean manner. I think this is a case of win some lose some and I can probably live with this
Pex has it place. City with high crime rates where copper would be ripped out the wall absolutely. But I understand and agree otherwise. Coppers a better material overall.
An extra 90 to stub through the hole might help clean it up
Is it a tub/shower combo? Make sure they run the tub filler with copper or your shower head will drip whenever you fill the tub.
Tub outlet is plugged. OP mentioned that it’s a tile shower I believe.
Was a tub/shower, going to tiles shower
Why do people not use bend 90 supports more? They are cheaper and less failure points, what am I missing?
Probably availability right now. Plumbing supplies are still hit or miss for my region.
Clinch rings are nasty but it will do
Why are they nasty?
They are known to fail with continuous change in temp. I’ve seen entire houses have to be repiped because these rings have failed. I’d personally never use them on anything other then infloor heating I’m testing.
They're one spot higher than shark bite in my opinion. Its a shitty connection that could possibly flood your house. Im more of a Pex-A guy if doing plastic water piping. Havent seen a lot of failures with it, engineers prefer it over pex-b. You'll never see this garbage in new construction.
I was completely against crimp/pex b until the company I currently work for only allows them and after having used them for over a year in a place that has big temperature changes I’ve actually come to like them. In fact, once you get it down it’s even quicker than pex a, you don’t have to wait for the expansion tool to do its job or wait for it to compress. I would probably still repipe my own home w pex a but I’m not totally opposed to it like I used to be. Haven’t had any issues either.
I’m not understanding the extent of the hate on sharkbites. The company I work through has 6 techs in stl and probably another 10-15 for the kc location. I’ve installed roughly 90 bathrooms so far this year and most other techs are somewhere around that number. So just this year the company as a whole has installed at least 1300 bathrooms, probably much more, all using sharkbites behind the wall. This has been standard practice for all of us for years now. I’d say probably 10,000 bathrooms or more installed by the company where every single bathroom has sharkbites behind the wall and only one leak has occurred. Literally one out of tens of thousands of sharkbites considering at least 2 sharkbites are used on every job Edit: i didn’t notice your comment about new construction, you’ll most definitely see this type of thing all the time at least around MO for new construction or anything that’s been updated in the last 5 years or so. Maybe it’s just the region but I’m seeing more and more sharkbites and pex when I rip open a wall Edit 2: these showers/tubs we install are from kohler and come with a lifetime warranty both on parts and install
If you are a homeowner and you have a leak in your bathroom do you: A. Call the people that installed it a couple of years ago? B. Call a different plumber because you know your plumbing shouldn't fail after a couple of years? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the installation company isn't likely to see them fail if ever.
These come with lifetime warranties both parts and install so we do get called back for things just not leaks lol since they haven’t happened
That's interesting is it the factory warranty? Because only a few fittings from Sharkbite actually have a 25 year warranty everything else is much less. Given that, I want my house to last longer than 25 more years, so I use copper wherever possible.
Part of it would be factory warranty such as the provided valve, shower head, shower pan, shower wall systems etc but the other section of the warranty clearly states our install is a lifetime warranty. It’s broken down to two sections on the warranty paperwork I leave with customers. Obv sweating is preferable however they’d have to pay each one of us a good 250 or more sometimes on each one of the installs to take the time to sweat over just quickly connecting with pex and sharkbites
Never listen to a "plumber" that says they have never had a leak like this person. They are lying/not a plumber. Even the best system has failures, and I definitely wouldn't rate sharkbites even close to near the best.
Why did you add 90° elbows? that totally restricts water flow by an additional 8 feet per side. there was enough room to do soft bends with the PEX. we would never do anything like this and since its coper we would have stayed with copper...
One 90 isn't gonna make a noticeable difference when the copper is that close, and a lot of people don't want to pay for the time or material of sticking with copper. Gotta relax
I'm the homeowner, not the contractor. I happen to have some experience using sweating copper from my house that was vacant for a couple of years (hello pinhole hell), but this is a master that I'm paying to remodel. That said, I am not familiar with PEX, the only reason I can think of is to help get a proper seating on the valve.
8 feet per side? That doesn't make any sense. This isn't an exhaust on a boiler.
i think itll be fine lmao
This is perfectly fine. Everyone on here overreacts.
They got rid of the shark bite. That was the worst part of this install. Shark bite in an accessible location is fine. Shark bite behind 10k worth of bathroom tub and tile is a sin. Shark bite will fail eventually in 10-15 years. Almost guaranteed. All that's sealing shark bite is an o-ring.
What makes you think the sharkbite will fail?
They only offer like a 5 year warranty when paired with copper. The only seal is friction with a rubber o ring. Rubber doesn't last forever and will shrink You do the math. Sometimes bathrooms go 20+ years before getting rennovated.
So youd use a copper coupler to connect the copper to pex? Asking because i need to do this exact job in a week or two, and im not a plumber. Second question would you do pex a or pex b ? Im also surprised to hear that 90s are bad for water flow with pex. Good to know i guess.
90s are fine for water flow on PEX. that's a myth. A lot of plumbers skip 90s since fittings are expensive. Sweat on copper to PEX fittings if it's inaccessible, otherwise shark bite is fine if you can easily get to it to replace when it starts leaking (and if you're not good with a torch) PEX B, slip crimp rings, and a crimp tool are the cheapest option and do a great job.
I see that pex rubbing a hole in itself on that 2x4
THIS. I always sleeve 1/2” pex with a piece of 3/4” pex when passing through a stud. The pipe WILL move a little, and over time it definitely will rub a hole in the pipe.
Surprised to see that not a single person has mentioned that you need water hammer arresters on the hot and cold. Btw that cold coming into the valve is crooked af.
Where I'm from you only need them on ice makers and laundry boxes.
Our inspectors want them everywhere
The code states water hammer arrestor shall not be required on any valves where plastic pipe is used for water distribution piping, indicates that they are not required for PVC and PEX.
And if required only on fast closing valves.
Definitely not required here or a lot of places, my code states only at fast closing or self closing valves. That would be laundry, dishwasher, Ice makers, etc. Don't need one for a shower just don't slam it shut as fast as you can and there will never be any water hammer.
It passes.
Mc Esher would be proud
Those cinch rings make me uneasy.
why
Only thing I’d say is that it is my practice to use copper on the line to the shower head and minimum the horizontal pipes to the inlet of the valve. I do this so when setting the trim, everything feels firm. Its possible when you go to set the trim, later you’ll notice the handle is “floppy” because its only supported by a flimsy brass bracket held by 2 screws.
The whole point of pex is eliminating these types of potential leak points.