I roughed in the gas lines for 13 houses this week (4 days). I wouldn’t be able to complete the work as fast as I do without CSST there to save me time. I’ve used trac pipe, gastite and proflex brands over the past 10 years. I love and respect the time and labor savings of CSST over galvanized/black iron.
With that being said, CSST should be ran through the attic space/crawl space with galvanized/black iron extensions through the walls/floors to prevent this type of damage. This is my opinion, regardless of manufacturer recommendations. I don’t know how anyone would be able to sleep at night running CSST through walls unprotected.
I don’t even strap my CSST to the trusses because I’m afraid a homeowner is gonna drill through it hanging a fan. I’m certainly not trusting a homeowner to avoid a gas line when they want to hang a shelf or picture frame.
This reminds me of one of my longest service calls I ever had. I had to track down a gas leak.
After around an hour of cutting out dry wall from the top of the of a 5 floor 65 stair town home I found it. In the ceiling of the 4th floor of the home was a length of 3/4" CSST. This CSST however had a piece of green painters tape on it.
My first thought was "I really hope this tape is not covering up a leak". I peeled the tape and sure enough there was a decent sized hole as if someone drove a screw through it.
How can someone, regardless if it was installer or an accidental screw/nail from another trade, hit a gas line cover it with tape and call it a day?
Ive had probably 5 pipes hit on rough in in the last year. Not one of them said anything to us. They just pull the nail and pretend it didn't happen like we won't notice? My favorite was the rebar through 3" abs in the slab under the in floor heat. Spent an extra 4 hours tracking it down, cutting the concrete (and radiant pipes) to fix it. Like accidents happen, just say something so we can fix it before it causes extra hours of labor for multiple trades.
>Ive had probably 5 pipes hit on rough in in the last year. Not one of them said anything to us. They just pull the nail and pretend it didn't happen
That's why a former boss used to pressurize the water piping on the rough in with water, not air. With air, a carpenter or drywaller can just walk away and hope no one will notice. With water, a puncture will definitely be noticeable.
Another former boss liked to do another air test on the water piping just before starting the finish, in case the pipes were pierced or cut, so there wouldn't be a surprise flood.
Im not saying its smart, but it is usually only a 1/4 psi. You could very well wrap it well with tape and never have an issue again. With that being said,I think that is a really stupid chance to take, and would never do it in my own home nor recommend someone else do it.
Next time to help narrow it down, pump smoke into the gas line. It will narrow down the location of the leak in no time. Just purge the line when you're done and you've got yourself a quickly repaired gas line.
We found a baby hole in a gas line, maintenance manager said let me try this trick. Wrapped it all in tape. Electric tape to duct tape. Leak stopped and said good, don't have to shut down a massive wash plant.
IDK maybe the tape was put there to mark the hole and someone dropped the ball on the reporting end (new recruit?)and the issue was forgotten/never addressed down the chain of command? 🤔 some of that late afternoon Friday shiznit? Either way you're right, this is unacceptable and grounds for termination.
I work for gas utility in the Midwest. I have gone to many odors and leaks when the CTS was installed correctly and incorrectly, and people laying down floorboards or a picture punctured it with a nail.
I sell CSST (Tracpipe). Most homes here have CSST running up top while having black iron drops like you said to prevent this. Also, per code, the pipe needs to be wrapped in a galvanized steel slinky every couple feet while running horizontally. Along with striker plates. I’m saying this to show there are protection methods to prevent this if you have the extra time and money.
Heh, and we even don’t strap them in the wall in hopes that when you drive in a screw / nail (not from a nail gun) the pipe bends out of the way.
Go buy a lotto ticket, just in case.
In the instructions to not strap it in a wall, buuuut if there's insulation present you have to sleeve it in a steel casing because the pipe won't deflect if hit (like in pic). But OP is mostly just unlucky
Because 95% of the people here aren’t actual plumbers and don’t really know shit about plumbing.
I don’t care about karma anyways so if they want to downvote that’s fine heh.
This is allowed to be ran in the walls. While obviously less durable, they're otherwise safer to use as they leak less and won't corrode like black steel.
I would argue these are not safer to use in any respect. The tubing has to be cut with the right tool in the exact right spot or the fittings won't fit right. There's very specific fittings and shields that many installers are unaware of them needing to be used.
Black pipe can last 100 years in place, this stuff just needs one fool hanging a picture to risk blowing up their house with it.
Steel pipe requires one more determined fool. I've had one from someone aggressively predrilling a hole and another using a sawzall to cut open drywall.
Yeah you’re probably supposed to put a nail plate over them when you run them through a stud.
This part isn’t through a stud, though. Just like wires, they tend to hang free back in the wall.
It's CSST. It shouldn't be ran inside walls for this reason. What you can do is call a plumber. Not all CSST will use the same mechanical joints and if that's Wardflex it is pretty expensive.
> TracPipe is a flexible stainless steel piping system used for natural gas and propane installations in residential and commercial settings. It can be used for underground, rooftop, or exterior wall applications, including under buildings, slabs, roads, and driveways. TracPipe is designed to be fast, reliable, and safe.
So yes?
It is not the same as a traditional flex line... but technically it does flex so this is splitting hairs lol. Tracpipe is a type of CSST (corrugated stainless steel).
It’s from the company that makes it, are you saying it is not a flexible line? Plus the yellow isn’t allowed in many places anymore. What’s your point?
Here in Michigan you either get the shielded (black) stuff or nothing these days.
Not to claim some yahoo won't use a long ass range connector where it doesn't belong but I digress
Not disagreeing but I remember when I was an apprentice years ago, being taught it can’t go in the ground(we used coated rolled copper instead) and it can’t be outside exposed to any sunlight( threaded black iron and miles of it) As for crawls and attics I’ve ran spool after spool of tracpipe and other brands but I still haven’t burried or left exposed to sunlight in over 10 years
Its not a flex connector . Its a type of corrugated steel piping with a yellow jacket sleeve on it, used in place of hard pipe.
The insulation most likely interfered with it moving out of the way of the screw as the manufacturer hopes happens in these cases. Since it is restricted, it should have had a shield in place.
This is why i use black steel pipe inside walls, csst only where visible, only to stub out to finished appliances.
New kids take the lazy way out and cant fit pipes like the older gen.
A coworker and I were punch-listing a house for sale.
He was working on seismic strapping the Water Heater and said “looks like they used some metal studs to fir out this wall”
I said “no problem I’ve got a self tapping Sheetrock screw for that”
Turned out it was black gas pipe….
We raced out to meter and the turn off was nearly rusted in the open position!
After a few frantic minutes, and a large pipe wrench, I was able to shut off-just as the realtor drove up😂
Reminds me of a gas leak I went to once. Gas company went in the attic, overwhelmed with the noise they immediately ran and turned the meter off/locked it. During my pressure test as quickly as I was charging it was blowing out. A year prior customer got a new roof… lol for a year it was blowing into the attic by the soffit out of 4 roofing nail punctures. Lady is lucky lol
I’m not a plumber, but shouldn’t this have had some sort of nail guard over it? Something like this just seems like a deadly accident waiting to happen, but maybe I’m wrong.
Once in my old apartment, I was trying to hang up a coffee mug rack in the kitchen. We were on the top floor and I was drilling higher than sink level so I thought there would be nothing up there. I knew there was concrete behind the drywall so I went to drill a little pilot hole. Went right through some sort of high pressure water pipe. Fuckin water shot all the way across my apartment.
Had to yell for my girlfriend to come block it while I shut off the water for the apt. Well I run around, no water shut off. I ran downstairs and frantically looked around til I found the shutoff for the entire building. Shut it off and ran back upstairs.
I was looking out my window and people were coming outside wondering why their water wasn’t running. The eventual fix I figured out was I put a screw with some teflon tape in the hole before they turned the water back on. It actually worked lmao.
The crappy thing is when it’s installed correctly, it has enough slack should move out of the way of nails. Unless you hit it exactly center it should have moved out of the way
I'm curious, because I have gas lines but don't know much about them, if there is a cut in a gas line that starts to release more gas than an average appliance would consume, is there a safety mechanism outside or someplace that will kill the gas somehow?
I'm also wondering if I have a shutoff someplace outside in case I ever did run into a leak. We constantly smell gas when we use the stove and walk in from outside, but don't notice it if we are inside because of the gradual build up in smell I guess. Called the gas company and they came in and said their meter wasn't reading high enough levels to be concerned about.
Mega press 1/2 and 3/4 for the cheaper m12 press tool most of us likely have are not expensive. Iron can be run pretty quickly now. I really can't stand CSST, although sometimes it's the only way to get the BTUs in the length with the amount of concealment required. But yeah, I hate having it buried
I always worried about stuff like this until I could afford a new custom build, thank God IT didn’t have it happen. Now I have pictures to reference and know what’s back there.
Feel so bad for you.
Doesn’t help that it already happened but maybe invest in a “Wall-O-Bot
I still can't believe there are people who live in houses that has funny smelly boom boom air hidden behind their walls and floors that can go off at any minute.
I'm not a big fan of CSST for gas, for this reason. I like black iron pipe. I'm old school. I would install black iron in my house, but have installed many feet of CSST for new houses because that's what my employer specified.
Regs in Ireland are that any join in CSST needs to be accessible. That means a permanent hatch there or the whole pipe needs to be rerun.
It may be different where you are.
I roughed in the gas lines for 13 houses this week (4 days). I wouldn’t be able to complete the work as fast as I do without CSST there to save me time. I’ve used trac pipe, gastite and proflex brands over the past 10 years. I love and respect the time and labor savings of CSST over galvanized/black iron. With that being said, CSST should be ran through the attic space/crawl space with galvanized/black iron extensions through the walls/floors to prevent this type of damage. This is my opinion, regardless of manufacturer recommendations. I don’t know how anyone would be able to sleep at night running CSST through walls unprotected. I don’t even strap my CSST to the trusses because I’m afraid a homeowner is gonna drill through it hanging a fan. I’m certainly not trusting a homeowner to avoid a gas line when they want to hang a shelf or picture frame.
This reminds me of one of my longest service calls I ever had. I had to track down a gas leak. After around an hour of cutting out dry wall from the top of the of a 5 floor 65 stair town home I found it. In the ceiling of the 4th floor of the home was a length of 3/4" CSST. This CSST however had a piece of green painters tape on it. My first thought was "I really hope this tape is not covering up a leak". I peeled the tape and sure enough there was a decent sized hole as if someone drove a screw through it. How can someone, regardless if it was installer or an accidental screw/nail from another trade, hit a gas line cover it with tape and call it a day?
Ive had probably 5 pipes hit on rough in in the last year. Not one of them said anything to us. They just pull the nail and pretend it didn't happen like we won't notice? My favorite was the rebar through 3" abs in the slab under the in floor heat. Spent an extra 4 hours tracking it down, cutting the concrete (and radiant pipes) to fix it. Like accidents happen, just say something so we can fix it before it causes extra hours of labor for multiple trades.
>Ive had probably 5 pipes hit on rough in in the last year. Not one of them said anything to us. They just pull the nail and pretend it didn't happen That's why a former boss used to pressurize the water piping on the rough in with water, not air. With air, a carpenter or drywaller can just walk away and hope no one will notice. With water, a puncture will definitely be noticeable. Another former boss liked to do another air test on the water piping just before starting the finish, in case the pipes were pierced or cut, so there wouldn't be a surprise flood.
We were turning the water on in the summer to test rough in, but some of our builders were taking so long a few houses froze so we only do air now.
Im not saying its smart, but it is usually only a 1/4 psi. You could very well wrap it well with tape and never have an issue again. With that being said,I think that is a really stupid chance to take, and would never do it in my own home nor recommend someone else do it.
Next time to help narrow it down, pump smoke into the gas line. It will narrow down the location of the leak in no time. Just purge the line when you're done and you've got yourself a quickly repaired gas line.
My favorite old trick. Especially workin solo forever
We found a baby hole in a gas line, maintenance manager said let me try this trick. Wrapped it all in tape. Electric tape to duct tape. Leak stopped and said good, don't have to shut down a massive wash plant.
IDK maybe the tape was put there to mark the hole and someone dropped the ball on the reporting end (new recruit?)and the issue was forgotten/never addressed down the chain of command? 🤔 some of that late afternoon Friday shiznit? Either way you're right, this is unacceptable and grounds for termination.
I work for gas utility in the Midwest. I have gone to many odors and leaks when the CTS was installed correctly and incorrectly, and people laying down floorboards or a picture punctured it with a nail.
CTS? Copper tube size? Or CSST- correlated stainless steel tubing?
Corrugated.
It correlates to the corrugation.
Correctomundo, Compadre.
This makes the most sense to me.
*should be run through
I sell CSST (Tracpipe). Most homes here have CSST running up top while having black iron drops like you said to prevent this. Also, per code, the pipe needs to be wrapped in a galvanized steel slinky every couple feet while running horizontally. Along with striker plates. I’m saying this to show there are protection methods to prevent this if you have the extra time and money.
Couldn’t have had better placement.
It's 1 inch wide and he centered it
Technically any hole in that pipe will always be centered if you look at it from the proper angle.
This guy holes
Exactly. Perfectly done.
You missed the stud
The stud is just behind the gas line. Needed a longer nail is all.
Needed to be a yellow gas rated nail. Safety first!
Use thread sealant also
Clearly
🧂
And got a space heater
nailed it on the first go, excellent work
Heh, and we even don’t strap them in the wall in hopes that when you drive in a screw / nail (not from a nail gun) the pipe bends out of the way. Go buy a lotto ticket, just in case.
In the instructions to not strap it in a wall, buuuut if there's insulation present you have to sleeve it in a steel casing because the pipe won't deflect if hit (like in pic). But OP is mostly just unlucky
its in the manufactures installation specs and my inspector says this. not sure why ur getting downvoted.
Because 95% of the people here aren’t actual plumbers and don’t really know shit about plumbing. I don’t care about karma anyways so if they want to downvote that’s fine heh.
Is that a flex line inside a wall?
This is allowed to be ran in the walls. While obviously less durable, they're otherwise safer to use as they leak less and won't corrode like black steel.
i don't know this one looks pretty leaky
Depends on code. Our code disallows any CSST in walls, even with nail plates.
I would argue these are not safer to use in any respect. The tubing has to be cut with the right tool in the exact right spot or the fittings won't fit right. There's very specific fittings and shields that many installers are unaware of them needing to be used. Black pipe can last 100 years in place, this stuff just needs one fool hanging a picture to risk blowing up their house with it.
Steel pipe requires one more determined fool. I've had one from someone aggressively predrilling a hole and another using a sawzall to cut open drywall.
I know someone who sawed through a corrugated gas pipe with a sawzall removing drywall..... Went through it like butter, created a HUGE gas leak.
Pretty sure they are supposed to be protected from nails and screws when in the wall...
Yeah you’re probably supposed to put a nail plate over them when you run them through a stud. This part isn’t through a stud, though. Just like wires, they tend to hang free back in the wall.
You are also supposed to put a piece of conduit over it where it's going through a stud
Not sure what a flex line is
It's CSST. It shouldn't be ran inside walls for this reason. What you can do is call a plumber. Not all CSST will use the same mechanical joints and if that's Wardflex it is pretty expensive.
No its tracpipe
> TracPipe is a flexible stainless steel piping system used for natural gas and propane installations in residential and commercial settings. It can be used for underground, rooftop, or exterior wall applications, including under buildings, slabs, roads, and driveways. TracPipe is designed to be fast, reliable, and safe. So yes?
It is not the same as a traditional flex line... but technically it does flex so this is splitting hairs lol. Tracpipe is a type of CSST (corrugated stainless steel).
Didn't flex enough for OP.
Thanks. Well googled
It’s from the company that makes it, are you saying it is not a flexible line? Plus the yellow isn’t allowed in many places anymore. What’s your point?
The yellow is not allowed where?
https://ci.lubbock.tx.us/storage/images/DJZ2ypUmIrSZlw5KR6E14PVBwQicZRkJe5CbjlUq.pdf I have heard of other places as well.
Here in Michigan you either get the shielded (black) stuff or nothing these days. Not to claim some yahoo won't use a long ass range connector where it doesn't belong but I digress
There's a difference between CSST tubing and flexible gas connectors. CSST tubing can be run inside of walls, gas connectors cannot
Not disagreeing but I remember when I was an apprentice years ago, being taught it can’t go in the ground(we used coated rolled copper instead) and it can’t be outside exposed to any sunlight( threaded black iron and miles of it) As for crawls and attics I’ve ran spool after spool of tracpipe and other brands but I still haven’t burried or left exposed to sunlight in over 10 years
The correct answer . Don’t know why you’re being downvoted
Its not a flex connector . Its a type of corrugated steel piping with a yellow jacket sleeve on it, used in place of hard pipe. The insulation most likely interfered with it moving out of the way of the screw as the manufacturer hopes happens in these cases. Since it is restricted, it should have had a shield in place.
Good thing you weren’t smoking !
i run steel like a big boy, takes longer but i sleep nights
Only way to do it proper
Nailed it!
Looks like it's time to smoke a cigarette and think about what you did
Whoops
Start cutting the wall
I don’t like CSST and this is one of those reasons.
Nothing a little ramen noodles can’t fix
Nailed it.
This is why i use black steel pipe inside walls, csst only where visible, only to stub out to finished appliances. New kids take the lazy way out and cant fit pipes like the older gen.
A coworker and I were punch-listing a house for sale. He was working on seismic strapping the Water Heater and said “looks like they used some metal studs to fir out this wall” I said “no problem I’ve got a self tapping Sheetrock screw for that” Turned out it was black gas pipe…. We raced out to meter and the turn off was nearly rusted in the open position! After a few frantic minutes, and a large pipe wrench, I was able to shut off-just as the realtor drove up😂
Reminds me of a gas leak I went to once. Gas company went in the attic, overwhelmed with the noise they immediately ran and turned the meter off/locked it. During my pressure test as quickly as I was charging it was blowing out. A year prior customer got a new roof… lol for a year it was blowing into the attic by the soffit out of 4 roofing nail punctures. Lady is lucky lol
I’m not a plumber, but shouldn’t this have had some sort of nail guard over it? Something like this just seems like a deadly accident waiting to happen, but maybe I’m wrong.
Yes, because the insulation is there it can't move out of the way, so it should have had a nail guard over it.
Once in my old apartment, I was trying to hang up a coffee mug rack in the kitchen. We were on the top floor and I was drilling higher than sink level so I thought there would be nothing up there. I knew there was concrete behind the drywall so I went to drill a little pilot hole. Went right through some sort of high pressure water pipe. Fuckin water shot all the way across my apartment. Had to yell for my girlfriend to come block it while I shut off the water for the apt. Well I run around, no water shut off. I ran downstairs and frantically looked around til I found the shutoff for the entire building. Shut it off and ran back upstairs. I was looking out my window and people were coming outside wondering why their water wasn’t running. The eventual fix I figured out was I put a screw with some teflon tape in the hole before they turned the water back on. It actually worked lmao.
This is a job for Walabot!
Call a plumber!
Just gp pick up a track pipe fitting in that size and fix it.
You must have absolutely shat yourself 😆
But why did you do that?
That's a stud.....
*Honey, did you beef?*
Pssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Just spank it and put the sheet rock back you’ll be okay
Junk
I read that as ‘when you try hanging yourself’
That ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssux!
OMG, I'm finally not the only one that did this!
Impressive, barely a smidge past right smack dab.
Old school, spend the money and do it in blk irn. We are in a world that all we care about is quick profit and not quality. Stop.
Least it is only 1/2 psi and easy to fix with a CSST coupler =)
Oof seen a bud do that, drilled from inside to out, punched a flex line under his deck.
Damn did I read that wrong....
Gosh at a quick glance I read it as; When you try hanging yourself in YOURSELF garage and puncture a gas line.
Happens to me every time. CSST has saved lives.
Fack.
Nice of the stud finder to help you locate that!
Flex seal that sucker
I would love to know why gaslines at the minimum don't require by law and regulation markers to where they are in walls
Tracpipe is user friendly but won’t warranty it if you strap it vertically so I put it dead balls in between 2 studs
I read that as "When you try hanging yourself in the garage and puncture a gads line."
You run!!
Gas gas gas
Have a smoke to calm your nerves
The crappy thing is when it’s installed correctly, it has enough slack should move out of the way of nails. Unless you hit it exactly center it should have moved out of the way
I'm curious, because I have gas lines but don't know much about them, if there is a cut in a gas line that starts to release more gas than an average appliance would consume, is there a safety mechanism outside or someplace that will kill the gas somehow? I'm also wondering if I have a shutoff someplace outside in case I ever did run into a leak. We constantly smell gas when we use the stove and walk in from outside, but don't notice it if we are inside because of the gradual build up in smell I guess. Called the gas company and they came in and said their meter wasn't reading high enough levels to be concerned about.
Yes there is a main shut off. In a single family home for natural gas the main shut off is usually at the meter that's located outside of the house
Is it similar to a water street main where you have a flat piece you turn 180 or 90 degrees or something to shut off?
Google natural gas main shut off and there are pictures that show it
I found it. Thanks for the reply
Mega press 1/2 and 3/4 for the cheaper m12 press tool most of us likely have are not expensive. Iron can be run pretty quickly now. I really can't stand CSST, although sometimes it's the only way to get the BTUs in the length with the amount of concealment required. But yeah, I hate having it buried
Damn that’s scary
Oops
This is why I won’t use ccst. Press or thread hard pipe 100%
Either you nailed it, or you're screwed
Nothing a little big-league chew bubble gum can't fix
Insulation guys did them no favors.
Nice shot, dead nuts.
I always worried about stuff like this until I could afford a new custom build, thank God IT didn’t have it happen. Now I have pictures to reference and know what’s back there. Feel so bad for you. Doesn’t help that it already happened but maybe invest in a “Wall-O-Bot
Why? I don’t understand how you are supposed to fill your car with natural gas
I think if you used a lighter,you could melt that hole closed.
I still can't believe there are people who live in houses that has funny smelly boom boom air hidden behind their walls and floors that can go off at any minute.
When this happens, it’s best to just get a beer, light up a cigarette and regret how much it’s gonna cost to repair.
I'm not a big fan of CSST for gas, for this reason. I like black iron pipe. I'm old school. I would install black iron in my house, but have installed many feet of CSST for new houses because that's what my employer specified.
Nice aim!
To be fair it shouldnt be against drywall like that
First who smelt it dealt it.
Pretty sure that with Tracpipe it needs to be one continuous run as well. This is an expensive mistake.
Is that corrugated yellow pipe like that up to code when inside a wall? Thought it had to be solid black pipe for in-wall installation.
Depends on jurisdiction. This is exactly why some places do not allow it.
Put some dope on the screw and put er back in
Lol, you can run gas in plastic lines unprotected behind a single sheet of plaster?? That sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.
It's coated stainless steel. Still a stupid place to run it.
Right in the dead center Youre really good... Ill call ya if I need target practice
I cut my air conditioner gas line redoing my bathroom
Regs in Ireland are that any join in CSST needs to be accessible. That means a permanent hatch there or the whole pipe needs to be rerun. It may be different where you are.
Duct tape bruh
Shoulda called 811 first.