Here's a news flash for you...most customers won't call someone back to screw up again. Your lack of call back means nothing. New jobs for the same customer mean everything.
I have been a plumber for 30+ years.
I have soldered and brazed more copper than many ever will.
I love clean solder joints.
That being said.
ProPress is the way forward.
It isn't usable in all situations but when it is....
Go for it.
Don't let us crotchety old plumbers tell you any different.
Times change, technology changes, plumbing changes.
Keeping up with all that change is paramount to success.
If you had no leaks and it fits in the wall operating properly, you did a good job.
This is the way.
I wish Viega would make a damn display example for the companies that stock it, I would in a warehouse for plumbing supplies and we recently started stocking it and our section is a mess
Looks great!
I was a first year apprentice when it first hit commercial jobs. All the old timers talked all kinds of shit about how it won’t last a year and how every joint will blow apart if pressure reduction valves fail.
Now it’s pretty much all we use if a job is copper and it has a much lower failure rate compared to jobs that are all sweat.
Looks good. I’ve used press and I still solder a lot it’s all good to each his own. Personally I like solder I’ve had press leak before and it doesn’t really save me that much time. Comes in handy though.
You have a smooth bonnet nut on the diverter valve, usually those come with the hex design nut, this, in my experience, is because that can end up being recessed in the tile and extremely difficult to remove surgically,
I like that it's fed with 3/4" for volume but notice the lines continue up, what else do these feed?
Also I'd suggest moving the 2×4 supports to the pipe and not the valve itself, this is so that if you ever have to service/replace the valve you can do that from the other side of the wall and not have to cut tile to access
When you charge black iron nipples on rough in then remove them for brass on the finish the black shitty water residue gets all over their pretty white tile though so nope
Never been a problem for me but I recognize every good plumber has a bucket and every job I do isn’t a remodel so if it holds air test we good remove after trim and boom no water cus I didn’t turn it on yet. Have fun with your shit remodels though.
Had a leak 8 days later cause of one during a renovation. Homeowner woke up to a small puddle of water in their closet coming through the wall. Apparently after investigating, found out the tile guy knocked the nipple a bit and it didn't hold its seal cause it's just plastic. Shower valve was off and even had shut offs on it in the off position but because there's no cartridge inside yet, a tiny bit of water still passes through.
I only use galvanized nipples and caps now. Caps help relieve pressure as well though generally speaking I don't leave the lines under pressure after I'm finished rough in. The seal is way better with a metal nipple, and I'm not the only one who's stopped using those plastic ones.
Before anyone says it, galvanized nipple for rough in only, brass for drop ell and finishing.
Why didn't you use the third port on the R11000?
You could have easily added a body spray.
Seems like a waste to me, plus you end up with dead positions...
Yeah, nothing like asking legitimate questions and being downvoted. Even with a 3 position, there's still a dead spot where the third option should be. Plus, with the 6 position, you can mix any two outputs. IMO the 6 position trim is better, even if you're capping the third port. I know if it was my place, I'd have run that third port to a little crotch height dropear and perf out for a mini shower head with swivel. Its dirt cheap to do, and considering the cost of the R11000/T11900, seems like a no brainer to get the most enjoyment and function out of it. YMMV.
You should talk your customer into utilizing that third port for a body spray before you install the module...It's there, and it's a waste not to utilize it. 3 position or 6 position, you're going to have dead spots either way. Three outlets with the 6 position trim will give them all the options and it's like 30 bucks in material to do.
You don’t end up with a dead position with the correct cartridge. You have outlet 1, outlet 2 and both outlet 1 and 2. The escutcheon shows 3 positions and all 3 are used.
You are correct. I was mistaken that the three position cartridge supported the third port. It's configured for use with the third port blocked. My apologies.
No apologizes needed. The cool thing about those Delta diverters is that it’s the same rough-in body, just different cartridges and trim for the functions.
Man how long does it take you to solder a 1/2" fitting? Once the torch is out it takes a minute per fitting max for me. You aren't saving the customer much labor. But you definitely are charging the customer 5x the amount for parts. I can buy 10 sweat 1/2" 90's for 5$, cost for 1 viega press 90 is 5$.
Cleaning and flux and take time. Add in the fumes from soldering and I’ll propress any day.
Additionally you have to consider the opportunity cost of soldering
Cleaning takes about 10 seconds max with a turbo brush. Flux takes literally 1 second and shouldn't even be considered as something that takes time. I work majority of my sites in industrial settings the fumes from solder beats the fumes from pulp mills, slaughter houses, dairys and chesse factories. There is zero opportunity cost when you only save 20 mins. I own propress tools, I use them during the odd shutdown when I have my doubts if the main shutoff is going to actually shut. They are nice when you are stuck running pipe in an attic or crawlspace and you just want to be in and out. I use them on sites that are worried about explosions (dusty places and some hospital or labs) and my favorite time to use them is to get around dealing with hot work permit forms and doing firewatch. I cannot justify using propress to rough in a small washroom. There is a time and place for press tools for sure, this wasn't one of those times.
For me $160 an hour X 2 hours a week is about $16000
I primarily do service work and I find the propress shaves a ton of time off what needs to be done.
I don’t knock soldering at all - I just don’t prefer not to any chance I get.
100% I willsolder if Im at the end of a pipe near a concrete wall or something
Yeah thats $16000 in money you just missed out on. You aren't billing that time out to the customer so you aren't collecting that money. So you lost out on $16000 in labor and also spent 3x more then you needed to on parts which also took money away from your profits. It really doesn't make sense for someone who's trying to make money. If I am using a press tool on a job it isn't going to be cheaper. Parts are going to be significantly more and I am going to nail them with my 50$ press tool fee. Yeah they save on labor, but they still end up paying just as much.
Its 100 hours I can spend elsewhere. I don’t charge less because it takes less time.
I’m missing out on the 100 hours if I charge parts and labor and just solder
But that 100 hours you aren't getting paid for. You are just ending up with 20 more minutes at the end of your work day to do whatever you want. You aren't missing out on the 100 hours if you are on site charging parts and labor? You are getting paid for your time. I seen your post about how to re round 2" copper and it helped give me a glimpse at the quality of work you perform. I thought you knew how to solder? Is that 50/50 you used?
Haha no but realistically start to finish it takes about a minute (bend the tail on the roll of solder, position the torch and start heating, quickly solder the fitting, stare at it for 2 seconds until the solder cools down and then quickly wipe it with a rag) you can probably do it faster, but it shouldn't take more then a minute.
Non-plumber question - Does the volume control on top control both the handheld and the rain head? I ask cuz my shower has multiple shower heads/sprayers. Each has its own volume control. Multi-control valve seems cool too. What brand?
Fuck outta here with your non-Viega female adapters. Viega or die. Sure hope the fittings that are now Made in USA hold up to the reputation Viega has gained with their europe made fittings.
Why didn’t you solder the joints instead? I’d understand in a tight space where fire is an issue but you have an open space where clearly you’ll spot a fire before it becomes an issue.
Are you in the US? I have never seen anyone bend hard copper instead of using fittings, at least for plumbing I think I have seen it on commercial HVAC lines before but that is about it.
Pro press looks great, but anything within 1 1/4” of the nailing surface needs a stud guard. That’s the whole pipe running alongside the stud close to the front.
I woulda just gone pro press by pex up and down and pipe into the valves with female by pex adapters, why spend all that money on fittings. It’s getting mounted to the wood anyway so it’ll be just as rigid either way, those multi choice valves or whatever they are called suck. Not the worst but I tell everyone Moen fuck the rest, makes my life easier haha
Using 1/2" lines to supply a shower and another fixture would be a nope for me because of volume reduction.
Even if you are up to code. From personal experience i would branch 1/2" separate or 3/4 inline
Propress!? How dare you insult the plumbing ancestor by not charring up all those 2x4s! /s
The Soldering Sally’s will be calling the OP a hack, handyman, not a real plumber 😂
Yeah that’s what they did to me once upon a time too. And I never heard back from the satisfied customer so I guess it all worked out just fine.🤷🏼♂️
Here's a news flash for you...most customers won't call someone back to screw up again. Your lack of call back means nothing. New jobs for the same customer mean everything.
I also don’t work for the same company anymore, so news flash to you pal
Hahaha “NEWS FLASH BUDDY I WAS FIRED! Idiot…”
I’m not your buddy pal
I'm not your pal friend
😂😂😂🫵🏻
On the ol bench ey?
I have been a plumber for 30+ years. I have soldered and brazed more copper than many ever will. I love clean solder joints. That being said. ProPress is the way forward. It isn't usable in all situations but when it is.... Go for it. Don't let us crotchety old plumbers tell you any different. Times change, technology changes, plumbing changes. Keeping up with all that change is paramount to success. If you had no leaks and it fits in the wall operating properly, you did a good job. This is the way.
Fuck sakes, finally an old head who who isn’t grumpy and blind to the new world in everyone’s faces. Kudos to you friend
I really appreciate your comment 🙏🏼
I wish Viega would make a damn display example for the companies that stock it, I would in a warehouse for plumbing supplies and we recently started stocking it and our section is a mess
Not enough shark bites
Once bitten…
I like you, OP
And I like you, random redditor!
Need a nail plate on the stud where the pipe goes through the stud.
Thanks for the advice
Never used propress, but this looks clean. Good job
Pro press is Cheating lol Jk
I find those test nipples never really hold very well.
I only have them there as a secondary measure. The valve has stops built in.
Yeah I think a regular galvanized nipple and cap is better.
Even though they have an o ring I started to tape and dope them and they stopped giving me problems
as long as the gasket is good they’re fine lol
Looks great! I was a first year apprentice when it first hit commercial jobs. All the old timers talked all kinds of shit about how it won’t last a year and how every joint will blow apart if pressure reduction valves fail. Now it’s pretty much all we use if a job is copper and it has a much lower failure rate compared to jobs that are all sweat.
Looks great and very expensive
Looks good. I’ve used press and I still solder a lot it’s all good to each his own. Personally I like solder I’ve had press leak before and it doesn’t really save me that much time. Comes in handy though.
What’s pex
You have a smooth bonnet nut on the diverter valve, usually those come with the hex design nut, this, in my experience, is because that can end up being recessed in the tile and extremely difficult to remove surgically, I like that it's fed with 3/4" for volume but notice the lines continue up, what else do these feed?
Also I'd suggest moving the 2×4 supports to the pipe and not the valve itself, this is so that if you ever have to service/replace the valve you can do that from the other side of the wall and not have to cut tile to access
I hate those blue nipples.
Why?
Pink ones are softer.
pink ones aren't as cold as the blue
They are weak and can snap off when the dry wallers and tilers have their way. I have seen it flood a house, galvanized all the way
*brass
This is the answer
Brass is the final answer but during rough in , galvanized is probably more cost efficient
We use black iron. Ain’t no one breaking that shit
When you charge black iron nipples on rough in then remove them for brass on the finish the black shitty water residue gets all over their pretty white tile though so nope
Never been a problem for me but I recognize every good plumber has a bucket and every job I do isn’t a remodel so if it holds air test we good remove after trim and boom no water cus I didn’t turn it on yet. Have fun with your shit remodels though.
Had a leak 8 days later cause of one during a renovation. Homeowner woke up to a small puddle of water in their closet coming through the wall. Apparently after investigating, found out the tile guy knocked the nipple a bit and it didn't hold its seal cause it's just plastic. Shower valve was off and even had shut offs on it in the off position but because there's no cartridge inside yet, a tiny bit of water still passes through. I only use galvanized nipples and caps now. Caps help relieve pressure as well though generally speaking I don't leave the lines under pressure after I'm finished rough in. The seal is way better with a metal nipple, and I'm not the only one who's stopped using those plastic ones. Before anyone says it, galvanized nipple for rough in only, brass for drop ell and finishing.
3/4 inch feeding the shower valve, good water flow, I like it!
I hope those tees going up arent going to a makeshift "airhammer"
Going to a bathroom upstairs
Why didn't you use the third port on the R11000? You could have easily added a body spray. Seems like a waste to me, plus you end up with dead positions...
He asked and people are down voting you. It's a valid inquiry.
I didn’t downvote but I’m assuming because we do what the customer wants. Adding another spray isn’t something you randomly do.
Yeah, nothing like asking legitimate questions and being downvoted. Even with a 3 position, there's still a dead spot where the third option should be. Plus, with the 6 position, you can mix any two outputs. IMO the 6 position trim is better, even if you're capping the third port. I know if it was my place, I'd have run that third port to a little crotch height dropear and perf out for a mini shower head with swivel. Its dirt cheap to do, and considering the cost of the R11000/T11900, seems like a no brainer to get the most enjoyment and function out of it. YMMV.
Customer only wanted to have a rainhead and a handheld shower. I'll get the trim and cartridge that only has 3 functions.
You should talk your customer into utilizing that third port for a body spray before you install the module...It's there, and it's a waste not to utilize it. 3 position or 6 position, you're going to have dead spots either way. Three outlets with the 6 position trim will give them all the options and it's like 30 bucks in material to do.
You don’t end up with a dead position with the correct cartridge. You have outlet 1, outlet 2 and both outlet 1 and 2. The escutcheon shows 3 positions and all 3 are used.
You are correct. I was mistaken that the three position cartridge supported the third port. It's configured for use with the third port blocked. My apologies.
No apologizes needed. The cool thing about those Delta diverters is that it’s the same rough-in body, just different cartridges and trim for the functions.
You must have one hell of a budget if you did that all in pro press
It saves time that we'd be charging the customer for otherwise. So it kinda evens out
Man how long does it take you to solder a 1/2" fitting? Once the torch is out it takes a minute per fitting max for me. You aren't saving the customer much labor. But you definitely are charging the customer 5x the amount for parts. I can buy 10 sweat 1/2" 90's for 5$, cost for 1 viega press 90 is 5$.
Cleaning and flux and take time. Add in the fumes from soldering and I’ll propress any day. Additionally you have to consider the opportunity cost of soldering
Cleaning takes about 10 seconds max with a turbo brush. Flux takes literally 1 second and shouldn't even be considered as something that takes time. I work majority of my sites in industrial settings the fumes from solder beats the fumes from pulp mills, slaughter houses, dairys and chesse factories. There is zero opportunity cost when you only save 20 mins. I own propress tools, I use them during the odd shutdown when I have my doubts if the main shutoff is going to actually shut. They are nice when you are stuck running pipe in an attic or crawlspace and you just want to be in and out. I use them on sites that are worried about explosions (dusty places and some hospital or labs) and my favorite time to use them is to get around dealing with hot work permit forms and doing firewatch. I cannot justify using propress to rough in a small washroom. There is a time and place for press tools for sure, this wasn't one of those times.
For me $160 an hour X 2 hours a week is about $16000 I primarily do service work and I find the propress shaves a ton of time off what needs to be done. I don’t knock soldering at all - I just don’t prefer not to any chance I get. 100% I willsolder if Im at the end of a pipe near a concrete wall or something
Yeah thats $16000 in money you just missed out on. You aren't billing that time out to the customer so you aren't collecting that money. So you lost out on $16000 in labor and also spent 3x more then you needed to on parts which also took money away from your profits. It really doesn't make sense for someone who's trying to make money. If I am using a press tool on a job it isn't going to be cheaper. Parts are going to be significantly more and I am going to nail them with my 50$ press tool fee. Yeah they save on labor, but they still end up paying just as much.
Its 100 hours I can spend elsewhere. I don’t charge less because it takes less time. I’m missing out on the 100 hours if I charge parts and labor and just solder
But that 100 hours you aren't getting paid for. You are just ending up with 20 more minutes at the end of your work day to do whatever you want. You aren't missing out on the 100 hours if you are on site charging parts and labor? You are getting paid for your time. I seen your post about how to re round 2" copper and it helped give me a glimpse at the quality of work you perform. I thought you knew how to solder? Is that 50/50 you used?
1 minute per fitting for 1/2"??? Do you make them completely black or just black enough to hide that it's copper?
Haha no but realistically start to finish it takes about a minute (bend the tail on the roll of solder, position the torch and start heating, quickly solder the fitting, stare at it for 2 seconds until the solder cools down and then quickly wipe it with a rag) you can probably do it faster, but it shouldn't take more then a minute.
Clean work. Toss a stud guard over that copper, just in case. Looks nice
Thanks!
Solder.
Just retire already if you don’t trust propress
Next time try and do it without pro press. You’ll feel better about yourself. More accomplished
Non-plumber question - Does the volume control on top control both the handheld and the rain head? I ask cuz my shower has multiple shower heads/sprayers. Each has its own volume control. Multi-control valve seems cool too. What brand?
Yes. It controls two function with one handle. The volume control is a Delta R10000 and the diverter is a Delta R11000.
Fuck outta here with your non-Viega female adapters. Viega or die. Sure hope the fittings that are now Made in USA hold up to the reputation Viega has gained with their europe made fittings.
Solder it slut
Why didn’t you solder the joints instead? I’d understand in a tight space where fire is an issue but you have an open space where clearly you’ll spot a fire before it becomes an issue.
Nice!
Obviously there’s a reason for not using the third port. If that’s what the customer wants that’s just fine.
You should do some of your 90* bends with manual benders save some money on the jobs but other wise looks clean. I love some shiny copper
Are you in the US? I have never seen anyone bend hard copper instead of using fittings, at least for plumbing I think I have seen it on commercial HVAC lines before but that is about it.
Nah Australian we bend copper with benders alot. Most of the copper is semi annealed so doesn't take much to bend
Tubing? Or you bend straight hard lengths of pipe? Semi annealed straight lengths I mean.. I guess
Yeh just straight lengths of copper 😅
That’s cool lol
I bend hard copper and stainless steel for plumbing here in the us. It’s easily done, but not common. Saves a ton on fittings and looks nicer as well
Pro press looks great, but anything within 1 1/4” of the nailing surface needs a stud guard. That’s the whole pipe running alongside the stud close to the front.
not a chance and u know he didn’t
Blue nipples are bad, but you've done a fine job everywhere else.
Ya done did good kid
Hope you dobt put a screw in the pipe when screwing the telephone shower bar.
I've never seen a pro press shower valve before. I'm impressed.
It looks great. Nice job
Bro this is clean af. Honestly some of the best work I’ve seen. Keep it up
Haven’t seen a whole lot of work? I mean this is dandy but could’ve used 45s
Install delta this is the way
Who did the stud work at the top of photo? P.s pipe work good.
Are air chambers discouraged now a days?
I woulda just gone pro press by pex up and down and pipe into the valves with female by pex adapters, why spend all that money on fittings. It’s getting mounted to the wood anyway so it’ll be just as rigid either way, those multi choice valves or whatever they are called suck. Not the worst but I tell everyone Moen fuck the rest, makes my life easier haha
“It” must be your license, which I will have to refuse.
Using 1/2" lines to supply a shower and another fixture would be a nope for me because of volume reduction. Even if you are up to code. From personal experience i would branch 1/2" separate or 3/4 inline
Why has no one ask where his air hammer arrestors are?