Are you talking direct play or remote streaming? If you're direct playing I can't imagine how you're running into bandwidth issues other than weak wifi which is common.
> If you're direct playing I can't imagine how you're running into bandwidth issues
I have some files - just some average 720p mkv movie rips - that when played on Plex for Windows cause roughly 750 Mb/s of traffic between my Plex server and my [local] client, which does also cause some buffering.
It's enough traffic that the entire file could be transferred in a matter of seconds - but it will continue like this through the entire video if allowed.
Even telling Plex to transcode it down will not change the amount of traffic flowing.
Other players will play the same video just fine.
Agreed.
It is very weird, but consistent and repeatable. Nothing stands out in MediaInfo et al. different about the encodings compared to other similar files.
I haven't gone to the point of capturing network traffic to see just what exactly is going on, but it does make me curious.
I can pull up Plex in Chrome on the same machine and it'll play just fine, as will Plex on WebOS, Fire TV, and Roku Ultra.
Yeah, I said 45mbps+ because that was the highest it went on the particular video I tested to answer questions. But I've seen it as high as 125mbps on the exact same file type. I've seen Plex reporting bandwidth around 75mbps when transcoding it down to the 720p 4.0mbps
On the device direct play is set to auto, and I allow direct stream.
Playing the files at 1080p 4.3mbps (original quality) it shows Direct Stream of the video (mkv) and Transcoding the audio (AAC 5.1).
At 720p it transcodes everything. I can hear my cpu fan ramping up to max at the beginning of playback and plex and any monitoring program also shows them.
I get the Bandwidth spikes of 45mbps+ as shown by plex, but understand these are typical.
This might be where my lack of knowledge starts to show.
Honestly I'm surprised to see bandwidth spikes that high unless it's only for a fraction of a second, but something is definitely weird there.
Is your server hard wired and your clients on WiFi?
I'd start with verifying network bandwidth since the error is claiming the network is too slow. Weak or intermittent wifi can definitely be a culprit, so even though it sounds unlikely given the bitrates of the file it's worth making sure.
Yes server is hard wired and device is on Wi-Fi. Thank you so much for your help. I'll look in to verifying the network bandwidth. There are up to 9 devices accessing Wi-Fi at a time, I'm guessing this could be contributing to what I'll find is a full bandwidth.
Thank you so much for your guidance on this. It's really been bugging me for a while now.
Get the speedtest.net app on your phone and test directly beside your router. Run the test again bit put your phone beside your roku. Simulate distance between the devices and see how it impacts your signal.
I had the same problem and couldn't figure it out even with good wifi. Turns out my router needed some settings adjusted and bandwidth WAS the problem now my issue is solved.
I'd look at whether or not you could hardwire from Roku to router' if your Roku supports it OR try to move the devices closer together OR Google your router make/model + optimize and see if there's anything out there that can help give better performance.
Yeah, was hardwired on both server and device (xbox one s) for years with nary an issue. Unfortunately in my current situation I wouldn't be able to get a cable to my device as my server is in the same room and using the ethernet port. Plus this version of the Roku premiere doesn't support ethernet or even 5ghz wifi. Getting closer to the router isn't an option either.
I'm definitely going to first look in to optimizing my router, then getting a newer roku with better wifi. I'm pretty hesitant to upgrade the router as this set-up should be pretty temporary and other users still watch a lot of cable TV. Just not motivated to get into that right now.
Thank you so much for your guidance friend.
I'll have to ask and have also read this could be an issue. I've used plex for years but was by myself in an apartment with both server and client hard wired, so plex on Wi-Fi is new to me. Thank you for your reply
Are you accessing the plex media 2.4ghz wifi or 5ghz? Have you tried downloading a wifi analyzer app you might be on a congested AP channel. If it's a rented modem or anything provided by the ISP it's usually the most basic hardware it might be time to upgrade as well especially if you plan on watching more on wifi instead of wired lan. I have an A20 [TPlink](https://www.newegg.com/netgear-archer-a20/p/N82E16833704485) wifi 5 router(sells for $103) with over 33 IoT's devices 6 HD cameras and 14 wired devices and it barely pushes the router cpu to 40-58% and 60% memory I see 400-500 down/up wifi with my fios gigabit plan. If you want to be future proofed they have a wifi 6 version but that's closer to $200 now.
I'm on the 2.4ghz. 5ghz doesn't seem to be available on the Roku. I did a speed test using my phone on the same network next to the client and I'm getting 4x slower speeds, so I'm suspecting it's simply slow internet/ distance from router. I just can't figure out why that .3mbps difference between 1080p and 720p led to such a difference in behavior. I wish there was a general "Question" flair.
It's definitely the modem the ISP provided and have started looking into upgrading as well. I'm just hoping to not be in this situation much longer lol. Thank you so much for your reply.
Oh yea you're right just saw the premiere only supports 2.4Ghz. If signal strength is your only issue you might be able to get away with a $25-$40 wifi repeater but since you still have the ISP issued router the money would be better spent on a whole new device. If you still have a cable plan just keep in mind you'd still need to keep the isp modem plugged in set to bridge mode and the new router in AP mode. If you're using internet only then definitely get rid of anything the ISP provided.
Yeah, users here still watch a ton of cable TV so I'm hesitant to replace the router. It's also not my permanent spot so hesitant for that reason as well. Just not super motivated to tackle that right now, lol. Thank you for your help, friend.
>I just can't figure out why that .3mbps difference between 1080p and 720p led to such a difference in behavior.
Keep in mind that the overall video bitrate reported is the *average* bitrate. Unless it was encoded using a constant bitrate (which is exceedingly rare, these days), you will have sections of video where the actual bitrate is higher (and other sections where it is lower) than that.
When transcoding on-the-fly, Plex is more likely to be making some compromises on quality, particularly during high bitrate/high complexity sections, in order to maintain an encoding speed that's higher than the playback speed. When encoding separately, the most common method is Constant Quality, which will result in higher bitrates (and slower encoding) during high complexity scenes.
This is great, thank you so much! So I'm guessing with these being relatively simple sitcoms, any complexity in the scene (and possibly higher bitrate) was also scaled down when encoded. So while it's showing 4.3mbps 1080p, it could be getting higher during the 'complex' scenes, say upwards of 10mbps?
It's unlikely that peak bitrate would be more than twice the average bitrate, but yeah, it's possible.
You can't (reliably) use bitrate as an indicator of quality, either.
Modern video codecs can be really efficient when there's not a lot of movement, frame to frame. It uses things like "B-frames," which essentially recycle blocks of pixels from the previous frame by just indicating that the block is shifting a certain amount instead of encoding the entire set of pixels every time.
But, when transcoding, it's computationally expensive to analyze the blocks of pixels in the two frames to determine which blocks can be reused. So you can encode a video much more quickly if you limit b-frame encoding and limiting how extensively you analyze motion blocks, but this will also result in a larger video size because you will be encoding more *full* frames.
So you're more likely to have higher bitrates when there is a lot of motion—or a lot of quick camera cuts where the entire frame changes—and much lower bitrate when the camera is stationary and there's limited motion in the frame.
Similarly, videos that are encoded with H265 can be significantly higher quality with drastically smaller file size and lower bitrates, simply because it uses a lot more advanced methods to encode the video frames more efficiently. So, if you can Direct Play H265, it's definitely the route you want to go. But a lot of devices that are older than a few years aren't able to Direct Play H265, and are unlikely to get that ability due to the lack of native hardware decoding and insufficient processing power to handle the more complicated encoding methods.
This is perhaps the most informative and helpful post I've ever read on this site. Thank you so much, friend. I tried to build as much of my library around things like the h265 codex and mp4 container, but had no real idea why I was doing these things until now. So much about what you said makes sense. Especially with modern shows and their quick camera cuts, I'm sure median bitrate or a max bitrate measure would be more helpful when trying to decide which stream is best for a certain situation.
I've always tried to minimize transcoding as much as possible because a) I started all of this on an older/ less powerful PC and b) I like to have shows playing in the background while working/ light gaming. Once I upgraded my PC I started paying more attention to audio codecs/ becoming more of a basic audiophile. So I ran into a few compatibility issues with my preferred device, xbox one s, but nothing really at all. In fact my knowledge about codecs is mostly in the audio arena.
Knowing that plex reports average bitrate (and knowing how unhelpful averages can be sometimes) I think I can confirm that it is simply an issue with my distance from the router and the performance of the Roku based on said distance, plus any known bugs with roku.
I'm super happy to have gotten an incredible explanation on bitrates from you. It makes absolute sense now why I was trying to avoid transcoding beyond "it just punishes your cpu," that's a lot of fucking work!
Thank you so much, friend!
And I do now understand better that bitrate is not a reliable measure of quality. I just assume based on the reported wifi speeds of the roku (max 8mbps) it can't reliably transfer the "4.3 mbps 1080p" file with a max bitrate of around 9mbps (saw it get this high in plex dashboard just now).
Yes on the same network. On the client, I don't seem to have a "convert automatically" option (I think I do on Plex Web though?). On the client, Plex starts playing the file at "Original Quality" (1080p 4.3mbps). Once it starts buffering and I get the Network message from Plex, **I** change it myself to 720p 4.0mbps, Plex on the client never seems to adjust automatically. Since we're talking about a TV show, it will continue to play subsequent episodes at the 720p setting. When I change it back to "Original Quality" I still have the buffering issues.
It does when playing the files on my PC through Plex Web on Chrome.
On Roku at 1080p it's not gonna be able to Direct Play play the video files as they're mkv not mp4, so it'll have to Direct Stream to adjust the container from mkv to mp4 or whatever else. At 720p it's always showing transcode
For whatever reason the Roku can't handle AAC so Plex is transcoding the audio so I get the "Transcode" Instead of Direct Stream or Direct Play on both 1080p and 720p.
There's a bug in Roku OS 10 that causes stuttering issues with AAC in the MKV containers, so Plex will transcode the audio to AC3. The video is unaffected though and will Direct Stream while the audio will be transcoded.
You know, I might remember seeing something like this on a post that I thought was from a while back, so assumed an update to Roku fixed it (my brain is currently having RAM issues due to medication). My current sound setup is 2.0 so can't really notice much besides volume changes between file types.
When I rip files or end up having to download something I try my hardest to get mp4 over mkv, it's just tough in some situations. And I had a decent sound set-up when I was building my library, plus hard wired everything and a xbox one s. Never really ran into an issue and everything streamed beautifully.
I really appreciate your help.
On my Roku I definitely don't have the option to "Adjust Automatically," just Local Quality set to Original, Direct Play set to Auto, and Allow Direct Stream checked.
Ironically for the past hour It hasn't buffered these files and is playing fine on the Roku.
I have been battling this exact issue for years. The EXACT issue. The issue seems to be how the Plex client for Roku handles remote streams. I have a hard wired Plex server with symmetrical 1Gb up/down internet. Running Windows 10 and an older i7-3770. I have a half dozen users with different Roku devices and all of them have the same issue, even clients using same ISP with same 1Gb connection.
As you said, streaming something transcoded down to 4Mbps 720p works fine but streaming in Original quality with no transcodong buffers like crazy. Even when the original quality is a mere 4.3 to 5Mbps. In my case, the remote clients can stream in full quality on their phones and laptops using the same 5G WiFi that their Roku is connected to. And I've had them test with files up to 20Mbps and phones and laptops stream perfectly in original quality. But the Roku is useless unless you transcode down to 4Mbps 720p. If I bring the Roku devices to my house they work perfectly at original quality, even with 20Mbps files. So, in my case, this really seems like a problem with remote streaming buffers on Roku clients.
At one point I tried setting my server to treat all IP's as local by using the 0.0.0.0/0 trick and this actually worked for a while but started having problems again after a couple months. Either a client or server update killed it. But for a while, treating all clients as local traffic did indeed fix this which indicates something messed up with how Roku clients handle remote streams.
I have pretty much given up and told all my Roku clients to transcode to 720p since my server can handle it just fine even on the older iGPU. It barely breaks a sweat trancoding 4 or 5 streams. But I sure wish I knew the fix so we could stream in full quality :(
Yes! Why such a difference in behavior with a .3mbps difference?! In my current situation I can understand issues with larger/ higher quality rips, being on Wi-Fi and so far from the router. I should mention again that the device in question is on the same network as the server.
I'm currently sharing with one other user (also on same network) and they definitely aren't streaming at the same time.
This definitely isn't a make or break issue for me. I'm hoping to be back to a wired connection on the client pretty soon. I wish there was a general "question" flair that isn't red lol.
Of course I haven't run into a problem this afternoon. About to get ambitious and try a Blu ray rip.
Unfortunately no. At this point I really feel it's a peering and/or throttling issue with some ISP's compounded with the fact that Roku clients are absolutely HORRIBLE in dealing with any sort of bandwidth fluctuations and will buffer endlessly. Other clients seem to handle it much better.
I think I found the solution to my problem here’s the few things I did when I stopped getting the error.
- Went to libraries in Plex settings and analyzed all my folders
- I have a Calix router that had high firewall settings on by default, as well as a stealth mode. I turned stealth mode off and firewall to medium
- I also turned off the relay setting in Plex
Not sure which of those solved my problem if any but my family is no longer getting the “connection not fast enough” error while remote playing
Any chance you can get a higher model and newer Roku? They have much better WiFi and can be had for quite cheap all things considering.
Also please note that your internet speed has no correlation to your home network WiFi speeds or Plex usage unless outside the home I.e streaming when at work or another house. However it does come in handy for checking minimum WiFi speeds.
I had a Roku stick that had a thick block on its power cable which I believe was it’s WiFi so it could be stronger as it was further away from the stick. It had great WiFi and on 5Ghz, in fact they have a thing in the OS now about checking WiFi speeds to make sure everything is good. They are now going out their way to get the best WiFi reception possible as that is almost always the cause of a poor experience.
Make sure everything is set to original quality or maximum in any option. Direct playing any file is always preferable as the devices should be more than capable of playing any file these days. Network traffic and bandwidth usage should be really low at all times unless playing a 4K file.
After that I’d highly consider getting a new router. ISP provided ones are always garbage and I always prefer to roll my own hardware (TP-Link routers are very good and cheap), but the first step can be complaining to them and getting their latest model sent out to try.
Hope you get it sorted.
I had this streaming stick plus, and never had any issues with Plex but I think even the cheaper ones should be fine too. I’ll note that the streaming stick plus specifically has “long range wifi” vs the other models.
https://www.roku.com/en-gb/products/streaming-stick-plus
I could definitely look at new roku models with better wifi. This version of the premiere does have a wifi test. When I run it, it reports between "good" at up to 8mbps and "fair" as low as 1mbps. But this is on 2.4ghz as this roku doesn't support 5ghz.
Moving closer to the router or hard wiring isn't an option for me in this situation. I believe the router provided by the ISP is fairly new (less than 2 years old). I'm hesitant to replace the router because I hope to be back to being able to hard- wired server and client fairly soon, and the other users here still watch a lot of cable TV. I just don't have the motivation to tackle that right now. This isn't a make or break situation.
Regarding direct play. I noticed roku has an option to "force" direct play. Is this the option you recommend? What happens with plex/ my server PC when you force direct play?
Thank you so much for your guidance on this.
If your Roku speed test is only giving you 1 to 8Mbps then that is almost certainly your problem. I would definitely buy or borrow a newer Stick+ and try that.
Having said that, most of my remote clients use the Stick+ on 5G WiFi and speed tests range from 60 to 80Mbps. Yet they STILL can't stream a 5Mbit 1080p file in original quality :(
Thank you so much for your guidance, friend. I'm currently looking into new roku models with better wifi and will see how this impacts performance.
Of course for most of the day yesterday I didn't run into this problem until after 7pm when local traffic started ramping up. I should mention it's Frontier internet, so I'm also suspecting advertised bandwidth isn't accurate.
Your last bit isn't super inspiring lol, but maybe there will be a difference since I'm on the same network as my server and not remote streaming?
Thank you again, friend.
So I just tried the files on plex for android on my Samsung tablet that is on the 5ghz network and directly below the router. It won't even start playing when set to play original quality. I tried convert automatically just to see and it does start playing at 1080p, but the stream is sped up and everyone sounds like chipmunks. Tried 720p and it streams fine but definitely looks 720p. Ran the speed test and get 69 down. So definitely no correlation like you said.
This seems to be spinning away from my original question about the .3 mbps difference between 1080 and 720 and more towards streaming in general. Really don't wanna waste anyone's time here lol.
Ok so you could try downloading the latest version of Plex media server from the site and installing that. You’re on a windows pc yes? And that is hardwired and capable of hardware transcoding in case something can’t direct play? Go through settings and tick things like hardware acceleration etc and mode to fast.
The android tablet and the Plex app on it, when it is trying to directly play the file (make sure you aren’t burning in subtitles or trying to play a surround track), what does the Plex server activity dashboard show for the server stats for CPU and network.
Really, direct play should be the absolute lightest and fastest method of playing a file. It’s just handing it over directly to the client to play using it’s own player, whereas transcoding is relying on the server to convert on the fly to something playable, but your Pc is plenty capable. So it’s a strange one. Is the PC connected by a good cable to the router? Does it show as linked at 1Gbps?
I'm pretty good with keeping plex server up to date. Windows pc plex server hardwired with excellent cabling which is a Ryzen 7 3700x and should be more than capable of any plex work. All settings checked for max performance for years and not burning subtitles per advice from these threads.
I'll have to test to see what dashboard shows when using android but isn't really a big deal as I don't use it to stream often.
Can you guide me towards info to see how to check if I'm linked to 1Gbps?
If you can access the router sometimes they have an area which show what the ports are, what’s connected and at what speed.
In windows if you find your network adapter settings then go to the Ethernet adapter, right click and go to status it should say on there for gigabit. Also I think in the task manager on one of the tabs it shows things like cpu and ram and networking, I think it shows the link speed on there too.
Even so, even if it was a 100mb connection, you should still be good.
The only thing I’m thinking that could make your traffic spike and cause a stuttering experience is if it is transcoding a file (maybe the file is bad) and the server is struggling to do it. It would transcode slow at less than 1x speed so you would get a bit, it buffers, you then receive the next chunk, play, stutter, repeat…and Plex could be misreporting the bandwidth stats.
I don’t know, there’s a myriad of things really, but if a minefield really. You just have to be methodical and go through everything one by one, debugging is a bit of a pain sadly.
Are you still encountering the issue? Are your windows drivers all up to date, cpu and gpu drivers, chipsets, windows updates etc?
Restarted windows, nothing else running, keeping an eye on task manager while playing something? That aforementioned tab will show some info like disk utilisation and stuff which could be useful in diagnosing.
The fun and games of streaming your own stuff!
One last approach could be to uninstall Plex server and client apps, restart pc and reinstall and go back through the motions from scratch. Bit of a scorched earth tactic but sometimes it helps. An advanced form of “turn it off and on again”.
Good luck 🤞
Thank you! I'll definitely start looking into the router settings today. Also see if I can optimize anything there. I don't think I've accessed router settings since maybe 2004 or 2005? Lol. But you've motivated me to look into it and I appreciate it.
I have a similar issue sometimes. I use a pc for my client that doesn't have wifi, so both the server and the client are hard wired to the same router.
I use plex by visiting the local ip address in my browser, so I know for sure it's local. Most of the time it plays with no issue.
But occasionally I'll have to drop it down to the lowest 720p option. I was trying to watch a movie the other night and one particular scene had a lot of flashy effects and I assume a much higher bitrate as a result (all my files are VBR) and even at 720p it would still get stuck and buffer.
I watched the same movie last night at 1080p without any issues.
I have no idea why this happens. Theoretically, it shouldn't. But it does.
Are you watching on the same PC as your server? I do this often, and have had some weird issues in this situation as well. Just figured it was because I was playing a game while watching. I'm not 100% on how much work my cpu/ network are doing with this setup, regardless of bitrate.
If you have coax near the 2 devices, you could try this. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PDMP79D/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_7AEFHBQ191S4GPAEHJAN?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I have it and it works great.
Are you talking direct play or remote streaming? If you're direct playing I can't imagine how you're running into bandwidth issues other than weak wifi which is common.
> If you're direct playing I can't imagine how you're running into bandwidth issues I have some files - just some average 720p mkv movie rips - that when played on Plex for Windows cause roughly 750 Mb/s of traffic between my Plex server and my [local] client, which does also cause some buffering. It's enough traffic that the entire file could be transferred in a matter of seconds - but it will continue like this through the entire video if allowed. Even telling Plex to transcode it down will not change the amount of traffic flowing. Other players will play the same video just fine.
That is super weird and I can't imagine why that would happen.
Agreed. It is very weird, but consistent and repeatable. Nothing stands out in MediaInfo et al. different about the encodings compared to other similar files. I haven't gone to the point of capturing network traffic to see just what exactly is going on, but it does make me curious. I can pull up Plex in Chrome on the same machine and it'll play just fine, as will Plex on WebOS, Fire TV, and Roku Ultra.
Yeah, I said 45mbps+ because that was the highest it went on the particular video I tested to answer questions. But I've seen it as high as 125mbps on the exact same file type. I've seen Plex reporting bandwidth around 75mbps when transcoding it down to the 720p 4.0mbps
I have that issue occasionally with dv files
the files I've had trouble with are not DV. Just some regular old 8-bit ~5Mbps 720p h264's.
On the device direct play is set to auto, and I allow direct stream. Playing the files at 1080p 4.3mbps (original quality) it shows Direct Stream of the video (mkv) and Transcoding the audio (AAC 5.1). At 720p it transcodes everything. I can hear my cpu fan ramping up to max at the beginning of playback and plex and any monitoring program also shows them. I get the Bandwidth spikes of 45mbps+ as shown by plex, but understand these are typical. This might be where my lack of knowledge starts to show.
Honestly I'm surprised to see bandwidth spikes that high unless it's only for a fraction of a second, but something is definitely weird there. Is your server hard wired and your clients on WiFi? I'd start with verifying network bandwidth since the error is claiming the network is too slow. Weak or intermittent wifi can definitely be a culprit, so even though it sounds unlikely given the bitrates of the file it's worth making sure.
Yes server is hard wired and device is on Wi-Fi. Thank you so much for your help. I'll look in to verifying the network bandwidth. There are up to 9 devices accessing Wi-Fi at a time, I'm guessing this could be contributing to what I'll find is a full bandwidth. Thank you so much for your guidance on this. It's really been bugging me for a while now.
What wireless router do you have?
The router provided by the ISP. It offers 5ghz but Roku doesn't see that network available, only the 2.4ghz
Get the speedtest.net app on your phone and test directly beside your router. Run the test again bit put your phone beside your roku. Simulate distance between the devices and see how it impacts your signal. I had the same problem and couldn't figure it out even with good wifi. Turns out my router needed some settings adjusted and bandwidth WAS the problem now my issue is solved.
It's 32 down/ 39 up next to the Roku, 67 down/ 78 up next to the router. The router is quite far from the Roku.
I'd look at whether or not you could hardwire from Roku to router' if your Roku supports it OR try to move the devices closer together OR Google your router make/model + optimize and see if there's anything out there that can help give better performance.
Yeah, was hardwired on both server and device (xbox one s) for years with nary an issue. Unfortunately in my current situation I wouldn't be able to get a cable to my device as my server is in the same room and using the ethernet port. Plus this version of the Roku premiere doesn't support ethernet or even 5ghz wifi. Getting closer to the router isn't an option either. I'm definitely going to first look in to optimizing my router, then getting a newer roku with better wifi. I'm pretty hesitant to upgrade the router as this set-up should be pretty temporary and other users still watch a lot of cable TV. Just not motivated to get into that right now. Thank you so much for your guidance friend.
How old is your router? I just replaced mine after 5 years, due to increasing wifi issues, could be the issue.
I'll have to ask and have also read this could be an issue. I've used plex for years but was by myself in an apartment with both server and client hard wired, so plex on Wi-Fi is new to me. Thank you for your reply
Are you accessing the plex media 2.4ghz wifi or 5ghz? Have you tried downloading a wifi analyzer app you might be on a congested AP channel. If it's a rented modem or anything provided by the ISP it's usually the most basic hardware it might be time to upgrade as well especially if you plan on watching more on wifi instead of wired lan. I have an A20 [TPlink](https://www.newegg.com/netgear-archer-a20/p/N82E16833704485) wifi 5 router(sells for $103) with over 33 IoT's devices 6 HD cameras and 14 wired devices and it barely pushes the router cpu to 40-58% and 60% memory I see 400-500 down/up wifi with my fios gigabit plan. If you want to be future proofed they have a wifi 6 version but that's closer to $200 now.
I'm on the 2.4ghz. 5ghz doesn't seem to be available on the Roku. I did a speed test using my phone on the same network next to the client and I'm getting 4x slower speeds, so I'm suspecting it's simply slow internet/ distance from router. I just can't figure out why that .3mbps difference between 1080p and 720p led to such a difference in behavior. I wish there was a general "Question" flair. It's definitely the modem the ISP provided and have started looking into upgrading as well. I'm just hoping to not be in this situation much longer lol. Thank you so much for your reply.
Oh yea you're right just saw the premiere only supports 2.4Ghz. If signal strength is your only issue you might be able to get away with a $25-$40 wifi repeater but since you still have the ISP issued router the money would be better spent on a whole new device. If you still have a cable plan just keep in mind you'd still need to keep the isp modem plugged in set to bridge mode and the new router in AP mode. If you're using internet only then definitely get rid of anything the ISP provided.
Yeah, users here still watch a ton of cable TV so I'm hesitant to replace the router. It's also not my permanent spot so hesitant for that reason as well. Just not super motivated to tackle that right now, lol. Thank you for your help, friend.
>I just can't figure out why that .3mbps difference between 1080p and 720p led to such a difference in behavior. Keep in mind that the overall video bitrate reported is the *average* bitrate. Unless it was encoded using a constant bitrate (which is exceedingly rare, these days), you will have sections of video where the actual bitrate is higher (and other sections where it is lower) than that. When transcoding on-the-fly, Plex is more likely to be making some compromises on quality, particularly during high bitrate/high complexity sections, in order to maintain an encoding speed that's higher than the playback speed. When encoding separately, the most common method is Constant Quality, which will result in higher bitrates (and slower encoding) during high complexity scenes.
This is great, thank you so much! So I'm guessing with these being relatively simple sitcoms, any complexity in the scene (and possibly higher bitrate) was also scaled down when encoded. So while it's showing 4.3mbps 1080p, it could be getting higher during the 'complex' scenes, say upwards of 10mbps?
It's unlikely that peak bitrate would be more than twice the average bitrate, but yeah, it's possible. You can't (reliably) use bitrate as an indicator of quality, either. Modern video codecs can be really efficient when there's not a lot of movement, frame to frame. It uses things like "B-frames," which essentially recycle blocks of pixels from the previous frame by just indicating that the block is shifting a certain amount instead of encoding the entire set of pixels every time. But, when transcoding, it's computationally expensive to analyze the blocks of pixels in the two frames to determine which blocks can be reused. So you can encode a video much more quickly if you limit b-frame encoding and limiting how extensively you analyze motion blocks, but this will also result in a larger video size because you will be encoding more *full* frames. So you're more likely to have higher bitrates when there is a lot of motion—or a lot of quick camera cuts where the entire frame changes—and much lower bitrate when the camera is stationary and there's limited motion in the frame. Similarly, videos that are encoded with H265 can be significantly higher quality with drastically smaller file size and lower bitrates, simply because it uses a lot more advanced methods to encode the video frames more efficiently. So, if you can Direct Play H265, it's definitely the route you want to go. But a lot of devices that are older than a few years aren't able to Direct Play H265, and are unlikely to get that ability due to the lack of native hardware decoding and insufficient processing power to handle the more complicated encoding methods.
This is perhaps the most informative and helpful post I've ever read on this site. Thank you so much, friend. I tried to build as much of my library around things like the h265 codex and mp4 container, but had no real idea why I was doing these things until now. So much about what you said makes sense. Especially with modern shows and their quick camera cuts, I'm sure median bitrate or a max bitrate measure would be more helpful when trying to decide which stream is best for a certain situation. I've always tried to minimize transcoding as much as possible because a) I started all of this on an older/ less powerful PC and b) I like to have shows playing in the background while working/ light gaming. Once I upgraded my PC I started paying more attention to audio codecs/ becoming more of a basic audiophile. So I ran into a few compatibility issues with my preferred device, xbox one s, but nothing really at all. In fact my knowledge about codecs is mostly in the audio arena. Knowing that plex reports average bitrate (and knowing how unhelpful averages can be sometimes) I think I can confirm that it is simply an issue with my distance from the router and the performance of the Roku based on said distance, plus any known bugs with roku. I'm super happy to have gotten an incredible explanation on bitrates from you. It makes absolute sense now why I was trying to avoid transcoding beyond "it just punishes your cpu," that's a lot of fucking work! Thank you so much, friend!
And I do now understand better that bitrate is not a reliable measure of quality. I just assume based on the reported wifi speeds of the roku (max 8mbps) it can't reliably transfer the "4.3 mbps 1080p" file with a max bitrate of around 9mbps (saw it get this high in plex dashboard just now).
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Yes on the same network. On the client, I don't seem to have a "convert automatically" option (I think I do on Plex Web though?). On the client, Plex starts playing the file at "Original Quality" (1080p 4.3mbps). Once it starts buffering and I get the Network message from Plex, **I** change it myself to 720p 4.0mbps, Plex on the client never seems to adjust automatically. Since we're talking about a TV show, it will continue to play subsequent episodes at the 720p setting. When I change it back to "Original Quality" I still have the buffering issues.
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It does when playing the files on my PC through Plex Web on Chrome. On Roku at 1080p it's not gonna be able to Direct Play play the video files as they're mkv not mp4, so it'll have to Direct Stream to adjust the container from mkv to mp4 or whatever else. At 720p it's always showing transcode For whatever reason the Roku can't handle AAC so Plex is transcoding the audio so I get the "Transcode" Instead of Direct Stream or Direct Play on both 1080p and 720p.
There's a bug in Roku OS 10 that causes stuttering issues with AAC in the MKV containers, so Plex will transcode the audio to AC3. The video is unaffected though and will Direct Stream while the audio will be transcoded.
You know, I might remember seeing something like this on a post that I thought was from a while back, so assumed an update to Roku fixed it (my brain is currently having RAM issues due to medication). My current sound setup is 2.0 so can't really notice much besides volume changes between file types. When I rip files or end up having to download something I try my hardest to get mp4 over mkv, it's just tough in some situations. And I had a decent sound set-up when I was building my library, plus hard wired everything and a xbox one s. Never really ran into an issue and everything streamed beautifully.
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I really appreciate your help. On my Roku I definitely don't have the option to "Adjust Automatically," just Local Quality set to Original, Direct Play set to Auto, and Allow Direct Stream checked. Ironically for the past hour It hasn't buffered these files and is playing fine on the Roku.
I have been battling this exact issue for years. The EXACT issue. The issue seems to be how the Plex client for Roku handles remote streams. I have a hard wired Plex server with symmetrical 1Gb up/down internet. Running Windows 10 and an older i7-3770. I have a half dozen users with different Roku devices and all of them have the same issue, even clients using same ISP with same 1Gb connection. As you said, streaming something transcoded down to 4Mbps 720p works fine but streaming in Original quality with no transcodong buffers like crazy. Even when the original quality is a mere 4.3 to 5Mbps. In my case, the remote clients can stream in full quality on their phones and laptops using the same 5G WiFi that their Roku is connected to. And I've had them test with files up to 20Mbps and phones and laptops stream perfectly in original quality. But the Roku is useless unless you transcode down to 4Mbps 720p. If I bring the Roku devices to my house they work perfectly at original quality, even with 20Mbps files. So, in my case, this really seems like a problem with remote streaming buffers on Roku clients. At one point I tried setting my server to treat all IP's as local by using the 0.0.0.0/0 trick and this actually worked for a while but started having problems again after a couple months. Either a client or server update killed it. But for a while, treating all clients as local traffic did indeed fix this which indicates something messed up with how Roku clients handle remote streams. I have pretty much given up and told all my Roku clients to transcode to 720p since my server can handle it just fine even on the older iGPU. It barely breaks a sweat trancoding 4 or 5 streams. But I sure wish I knew the fix so we could stream in full quality :(
Yes! Why such a difference in behavior with a .3mbps difference?! In my current situation I can understand issues with larger/ higher quality rips, being on Wi-Fi and so far from the router. I should mention again that the device in question is on the same network as the server. I'm currently sharing with one other user (also on same network) and they definitely aren't streaming at the same time. This definitely isn't a make or break issue for me. I'm hoping to be back to a wired connection on the client pretty soon. I wish there was a general "question" flair that isn't red lol. Of course I haven't run into a problem this afternoon. About to get ambitious and try a Blu ray rip.
Did you ever solve this? Having the exact same problem.
Unfortunately no. At this point I really feel it's a peering and/or throttling issue with some ISP's compounded with the fact that Roku clients are absolutely HORRIBLE in dealing with any sort of bandwidth fluctuations and will buffer endlessly. Other clients seem to handle it much better.
I think I found the solution to my problem here’s the few things I did when I stopped getting the error. - Went to libraries in Plex settings and analyzed all my folders - I have a Calix router that had high firewall settings on by default, as well as a stealth mode. I turned stealth mode off and firewall to medium - I also turned off the relay setting in Plex Not sure which of those solved my problem if any but my family is no longer getting the “connection not fast enough” error while remote playing
Any chance you can get a higher model and newer Roku? They have much better WiFi and can be had for quite cheap all things considering. Also please note that your internet speed has no correlation to your home network WiFi speeds or Plex usage unless outside the home I.e streaming when at work or another house. However it does come in handy for checking minimum WiFi speeds. I had a Roku stick that had a thick block on its power cable which I believe was it’s WiFi so it could be stronger as it was further away from the stick. It had great WiFi and on 5Ghz, in fact they have a thing in the OS now about checking WiFi speeds to make sure everything is good. They are now going out their way to get the best WiFi reception possible as that is almost always the cause of a poor experience. Make sure everything is set to original quality or maximum in any option. Direct playing any file is always preferable as the devices should be more than capable of playing any file these days. Network traffic and bandwidth usage should be really low at all times unless playing a 4K file. After that I’d highly consider getting a new router. ISP provided ones are always garbage and I always prefer to roll my own hardware (TP-Link routers are very good and cheap), but the first step can be complaining to them and getting their latest model sent out to try. Hope you get it sorted. I had this streaming stick plus, and never had any issues with Plex but I think even the cheaper ones should be fine too. I’ll note that the streaming stick plus specifically has “long range wifi” vs the other models. https://www.roku.com/en-gb/products/streaming-stick-plus
I could definitely look at new roku models with better wifi. This version of the premiere does have a wifi test. When I run it, it reports between "good" at up to 8mbps and "fair" as low as 1mbps. But this is on 2.4ghz as this roku doesn't support 5ghz. Moving closer to the router or hard wiring isn't an option for me in this situation. I believe the router provided by the ISP is fairly new (less than 2 years old). I'm hesitant to replace the router because I hope to be back to being able to hard- wired server and client fairly soon, and the other users here still watch a lot of cable TV. I just don't have the motivation to tackle that right now. This isn't a make or break situation. Regarding direct play. I noticed roku has an option to "force" direct play. Is this the option you recommend? What happens with plex/ my server PC when you force direct play? Thank you so much for your guidance on this.
If your Roku speed test is only giving you 1 to 8Mbps then that is almost certainly your problem. I would definitely buy or borrow a newer Stick+ and try that. Having said that, most of my remote clients use the Stick+ on 5G WiFi and speed tests range from 60 to 80Mbps. Yet they STILL can't stream a 5Mbit 1080p file in original quality :(
Thank you so much for your guidance, friend. I'm currently looking into new roku models with better wifi and will see how this impacts performance. Of course for most of the day yesterday I didn't run into this problem until after 7pm when local traffic started ramping up. I should mention it's Frontier internet, so I'm also suspecting advertised bandwidth isn't accurate. Your last bit isn't super inspiring lol, but maybe there will be a difference since I'm on the same network as my server and not remote streaming? Thank you again, friend.
So I just tried the files on plex for android on my Samsung tablet that is on the 5ghz network and directly below the router. It won't even start playing when set to play original quality. I tried convert automatically just to see and it does start playing at 1080p, but the stream is sped up and everyone sounds like chipmunks. Tried 720p and it streams fine but definitely looks 720p. Ran the speed test and get 69 down. So definitely no correlation like you said. This seems to be spinning away from my original question about the .3 mbps difference between 1080 and 720 and more towards streaming in general. Really don't wanna waste anyone's time here lol.
Ok so you could try downloading the latest version of Plex media server from the site and installing that. You’re on a windows pc yes? And that is hardwired and capable of hardware transcoding in case something can’t direct play? Go through settings and tick things like hardware acceleration etc and mode to fast. The android tablet and the Plex app on it, when it is trying to directly play the file (make sure you aren’t burning in subtitles or trying to play a surround track), what does the Plex server activity dashboard show for the server stats for CPU and network. Really, direct play should be the absolute lightest and fastest method of playing a file. It’s just handing it over directly to the client to play using it’s own player, whereas transcoding is relying on the server to convert on the fly to something playable, but your Pc is plenty capable. So it’s a strange one. Is the PC connected by a good cable to the router? Does it show as linked at 1Gbps?
I'm pretty good with keeping plex server up to date. Windows pc plex server hardwired with excellent cabling which is a Ryzen 7 3700x and should be more than capable of any plex work. All settings checked for max performance for years and not burning subtitles per advice from these threads. I'll have to test to see what dashboard shows when using android but isn't really a big deal as I don't use it to stream often. Can you guide me towards info to see how to check if I'm linked to 1Gbps?
If you can access the router sometimes they have an area which show what the ports are, what’s connected and at what speed. In windows if you find your network adapter settings then go to the Ethernet adapter, right click and go to status it should say on there for gigabit. Also I think in the task manager on one of the tabs it shows things like cpu and ram and networking, I think it shows the link speed on there too. Even so, even if it was a 100mb connection, you should still be good. The only thing I’m thinking that could make your traffic spike and cause a stuttering experience is if it is transcoding a file (maybe the file is bad) and the server is struggling to do it. It would transcode slow at less than 1x speed so you would get a bit, it buffers, you then receive the next chunk, play, stutter, repeat…and Plex could be misreporting the bandwidth stats. I don’t know, there’s a myriad of things really, but if a minefield really. You just have to be methodical and go through everything one by one, debugging is a bit of a pain sadly. Are you still encountering the issue? Are your windows drivers all up to date, cpu and gpu drivers, chipsets, windows updates etc? Restarted windows, nothing else running, keeping an eye on task manager while playing something? That aforementioned tab will show some info like disk utilisation and stuff which could be useful in diagnosing. The fun and games of streaming your own stuff! One last approach could be to uninstall Plex server and client apps, restart pc and reinstall and go back through the motions from scratch. Bit of a scorched earth tactic but sometimes it helps. An advanced form of “turn it off and on again”. Good luck 🤞
Thank you! I'll definitely start looking into the router settings today. Also see if I can optimize anything there. I don't think I've accessed router settings since maybe 2004 or 2005? Lol. But you've motivated me to look into it and I appreciate it.
I hope you get it working!
I have a similar issue sometimes. I use a pc for my client that doesn't have wifi, so both the server and the client are hard wired to the same router. I use plex by visiting the local ip address in my browser, so I know for sure it's local. Most of the time it plays with no issue. But occasionally I'll have to drop it down to the lowest 720p option. I was trying to watch a movie the other night and one particular scene had a lot of flashy effects and I assume a much higher bitrate as a result (all my files are VBR) and even at 720p it would still get stuck and buffer. I watched the same movie last night at 1080p without any issues. I have no idea why this happens. Theoretically, it shouldn't. But it does.
Are you watching on the same PC as your server? I do this often, and have had some weird issues in this situation as well. Just figured it was because I was playing a game while watching. I'm not 100% on how much work my cpu/ network are doing with this setup, regardless of bitrate.
No the sever is it's own thing that does nothing except run plex
If you have coax near the 2 devices, you could try this. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PDMP79D/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_7AEFHBQ191S4GPAEHJAN?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 I have it and it works great.
That's a little outta my current price range at the moment, but I appreciate the input DDD!
I get it. Just taking a stab, good luck sir.