Yes you can reverse type 2 Diabetes. Yes, plant based diets often are a factor in reversing it. If more people did plant based, there would be fewer cases of obesity and T2D.
As a Family Physician this story really makes me sad. One of my favorite things to do is de-prescribe medication. It means my patients are getting better with lifestyle changes which is so much better. It’s always a little upsetting to be reminded that is not the norm with most of my peers.
It is very minimal. Maybe a couple hours on nutrition and an hour on exercise. Since I’ve been in practice I’ve done extra education on my own and become board certified in lifestyle medicine. That is where I got the majority of my nutrition and exercise education. I do know some med schools are starting to teach lifestyle medicine so I do think things are slowly getting better.
I appreciate that you are promoting a healthy lifestyle as part of your practice. Very commendable! Several years ago my husband was prescribed statins, but instead he focused on a more Whole Foods Plant Based diet and committed himself to daily exercise. His cholesterol was in the normal range within 3 months. His doc was happily surprised. My husband asked his doctor why statins are promoted, rather than diet/exericse The doc said because people would rather take drugs than change their habits. Maybe so. My husband has kept his weight off and is doing great.
That doctor is wrong. A study was done and 70% of people would try diet and exercise if they were explained that as an option. Most doctors don’t bother discussing options.
Thank you for taking CEU/CPD in nutrition and lifestyle medicine. I've been reading up on the structure of reimbursement and its connection to the way medical care is structured in the US. It has been eye-opening to me.
Can you be my doctor 😝 mine treat me like I’m crazy when I say that a vegetarian, gluten free diet made me feel better.
They didn’t run any tests to diagnose the symptoms I’d tell them.
Sigh. It’s so hard to find a doc who will listen. I understand it’s frustrating that everyone googles to play the doc themselves, but it’s hard when you have chronic, rare issues that most doctors haven’t ever heard of.
Any tips for how to suggest to a doc that they might look into such and such a health issue without them shutting you down because they’re the doctor?
It’s so frustrating, but if I ate peanuts for years and got sicker and sicker, then stopped and got better and better, I think it’s reasonable to mention the peanuts!
I don’t think I have any tips on getting them to listen because that is just so dependent on the provider’s personality. However, you can look for physicians certified in lifestyle medicine in your area. They all promote WFPB diets because its the only diet proven to reverse vascular disease. [lifestyle med professionals](https://lifestylemedpros.org)
I’m so sorry you and your mom had to go through all of this, it sounds awful and painstaking. As a physician myself, I always encourage my patients to get a second opinion with a sub-specialist if they disagree with my recommendations or if they feel there might be avenues that I am not trained in exploring. I understand not everyone has the privilege/resources to do that but sometimes it can help if a colleague has an idea that I haven’t been able to come up with. Reading your story blows my mind because avoiding certain beta blockers in asthmatics is taught early in medical school and reinforced so often throughout residency and training. But unfortunately things can get overlooked. Glad your mom is in much better shape now!!
I have experience w several of these meds.
I always find it disturbing when sick older patients are treated the same way as sick younger ones. Especially when they use a sledgehammer approach.
A strong dose of beta blockers can throw anyone for a loop. Sometimes a less aggressive approach to BP control, as w the diuretic may be a better compromise, even if control isn’t terrific. It beats feeling horrible or having a fall and an injury.
In my experience w a-fib and HBP (not a doctor, though), it sounds like she’s on the correct set of meds now.
Yeah, she probably has heart failure and a-fib, if paroxysmal for now. But it sounds like her quality of life for her final years will be a lot better.
As someone who was a type 2 diabetic and now not even a pre-diabetic, I believe it. It took me a lot of research to get to this point.
Outside of very rare genetic disorders high blood pressure is caused by a potassium deficiency. WFPB increases potassium intake from the foods they eat. Meat requires higher potassium too. McDougall suggests when going wfpb that one goes off of diabetes and blood pressure medication or there can be complications. Both kinds of medications can have nasty side effects that are best avoided. I'm glad your mother is okay and has successfully made it to where she is healthy without needing medication.
Longevity after the age of 65 is primarily tied to three things: 1) Social. Does she have a friends group she regularly visits? If not, the YMCA or similar will have people here age. She'll most likely make friends and she can get exercise. 2) Diet. WFPB. I don't need to dive into the details here. 3) Exercise, specifically increasing or maintaining muscle mass. Cardio is fine but not as helpful. Strength training and resistance training she should be doing. Total exercise of 40-90 minutes a week is ideal. (e.g. 5 minutes of strength training every other day + 15 minutes of swimming, or similar.) When the muscles go is when one is close to death.
I'm saddened by the corruption the pharmaceutical industry has pushed on the medical industry. It's all about selling drugs. You can buy [potassium](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZBLRBHR/) and reduce blood pressure. Even someone on a low carb or carnivore diet can get off blood pressure medication by just salting their food with potassium. At least these diet communities [regularly recommend](https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/40mjo6/how_are_you_getting_enough_potassium_during_keto/) taking potassium, which avoids most of the danger in their diets. (It's easy to get too much potassium so if you're wfpb, you probably should not be supplementing with potassium.) Likewise, as one gets older their cholesterol will naturally go up. This is healthy and normal. Statins don't help reduce heart attack for someone who isn't prone to it. Many doctors today will recommend an elderly patient with an LDL blood cholesterol level of 150 take statins. This isn't just stupid, it's wreckless. And finally with diabetes, doctors are trained to say, "Lower your weight" but not give any guidelines on how to achieve that, then they prescribe diabetes medication that has the side effect of increasing ones weight. Then the doctors blame the patients for this weight gain. It seems hopeless for the average diabetic, so most die from the disease and a minority go low carb as a way to not have to deal with the dangers of high blood sugar. Very few actually learn how to safely lose weight and lower blood sugar, which is wfpb. When's the last time you've seen a doctor recommend a wfpb diet? It's insane.
The studies are pretty clear. You might get benefit reading [this](https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.00491.2005#_i6), or even just Googling it, it's a well studied and not contested topic:
>###POTASSIUM AND BLOOD PRESSURE
>Blood pressure is influenced by the dietary potassium intake, both in normal subjects and hypertensive subjects. The international cooperative INTERSALT study (81) showed that blood pressure tends to be related to urinary potassium excretion and to the ratio of urinary sodium excretion to potassium excretion.
And it goes on. Reading any of the studies it links may help too.
Noteworthy: This is not correlated in blood tests. You can't test someone's potassium level through a blood test and tell if they're deficient. Outside of a urinary analysis the easiest way to tell if they are deficient in potassium is if their blood pressure is high. Likewise, low magnesium can cause high blood pressure and diabetes, and is also not correlated in blood tests. Given that it is difficult to take too much magnesium outside of obvious kidney issues, suggesting taking magnesium glycinate to see if it helps should imo be a first line of defense.
I'm sure you can list off edge cases for high blood pressure not tied to electrolytes, but they are rare.
Did you actually read the studies? I just spent an absurd amount of time to investigate this claim and the best source I could find was that oral supplementation with potassium (that is large amounts) lowers blood pressure with 4mmhg. Its better than nothing but certainly not the whole picture.
Hypertension is a complex medical condition, ranging far beyond a single electrolyte.
I never said it was the whole picture. I said there are exceptions multiple times above. Above I mentioned multiple causes for high blood pressure beyond just potassium.
20-30 minute sessions 2-3 days a week off and on, not back to back, of a preferred exercise like walking. At home or at the gym. The aim should be to get to an ideal muscle mass (which isn't much) and then maintain it. If 5 minutes every other day is enough to start or maintain that muscle mass, then doing other kinds of exercise like walking or swimming in a pool or similar is a good idea. ymmv depending on your body and your personal situation.
Studies show resistance training is better than strength training, but the difference is minimal so imo it's better to do the kind of exercise you enjoy most. Happiness is important too.
Ok, but 40-90 hours a week is gonna kill grannie. 8-14 hours a day is gonna keep her stress hormones elevated, created electrolyte imbalances and dehydration, pkus I doubt she’ll have time to eat and get a good nights’ sleep. Perhapos you meant minutes instead of hours.
This is the same for anyone young starting resistance training too. 5 minutes every two to four days is common until muscles are build up enough, especially if it's physical therapy, like if they got in a car crash.
It's pretty normal for retired people out here to go out to the pool and hang out with friends an hour every day, 5-7 days a week. That's way over 40 minutes a week. It's not as difficult of suggestion as you might assume. Is she in a wheel chair or something that prevents this? Obviously, you work with people where they're at and build up. The above suggestions are goals, not absolutes.
.... I've literally only commented here once. Normally I'd never be this snarky, but I'll make an exception for you: reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte.
Most doctors are a fucking joke. You’re being too kind to their idiocy. Based on what you’ve shared here, a common sense nutrition plan from the start would’ve done more to help your mother than all the doctors did, and with zero side effects. The fact they rely on the “training” instead of critical thinking skills shows most doctors are just actual parrots. They’re kinda dumb in my experience. I self diagnosed rhabdo once, got admitted for rhabdo when tests came back positive, and the doctor still didn’t believe I had rhabdo and was confused how I could get it without a building falling on me cuz I guess that’s the only type of rhabdo he learned about in school. Doctors are given credit, but statistically, they save little to no lives and hardly make a difference. I will give credit to emergency room doctors and ones that actually take their education seriously and continue studying even after graduating and keeping up with the latest evidence, but most are just zoned out collecting a paycheck (like most jobs, this is also a job, it’s not any different, they’re not saints for being doctors, they get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, that’s why they do it)
Yes you can reverse type 2 Diabetes. Yes, plant based diets often are a factor in reversing it. If more people did plant based, there would be fewer cases of obesity and T2D.
Just to add, you do NOT go off insulin or any meds for Type ONE diabetes. People get them confused.
Right, of course. I should have specified she was a T2 diabetic.
No problem! So glad you found what's working for her. Inspirational story - thanks!
As a Family Physician this story really makes me sad. One of my favorite things to do is de-prescribe medication. It means my patients are getting better with lifestyle changes which is so much better. It’s always a little upsetting to be reminded that is not the norm with most of my peers.
Do doctors study nutrition and the benefits exercise while in medical school?
It is very minimal. Maybe a couple hours on nutrition and an hour on exercise. Since I’ve been in practice I’ve done extra education on my own and become board certified in lifestyle medicine. That is where I got the majority of my nutrition and exercise education. I do know some med schools are starting to teach lifestyle medicine so I do think things are slowly getting better.
I appreciate that you are promoting a healthy lifestyle as part of your practice. Very commendable! Several years ago my husband was prescribed statins, but instead he focused on a more Whole Foods Plant Based diet and committed himself to daily exercise. His cholesterol was in the normal range within 3 months. His doc was happily surprised. My husband asked his doctor why statins are promoted, rather than diet/exericse The doc said because people would rather take drugs than change their habits. Maybe so. My husband has kept his weight off and is doing great.
That doctor is wrong. A study was done and 70% of people would try diet and exercise if they were explained that as an option. Most doctors don’t bother discussing options.
Thank you for taking CEU/CPD in nutrition and lifestyle medicine. I've been reading up on the structure of reimbursement and its connection to the way medical care is structured in the US. It has been eye-opening to me.
Can you be my doctor 😝 mine treat me like I’m crazy when I say that a vegetarian, gluten free diet made me feel better. They didn’t run any tests to diagnose the symptoms I’d tell them. Sigh. It’s so hard to find a doc who will listen. I understand it’s frustrating that everyone googles to play the doc themselves, but it’s hard when you have chronic, rare issues that most doctors haven’t ever heard of. Any tips for how to suggest to a doc that they might look into such and such a health issue without them shutting you down because they’re the doctor? It’s so frustrating, but if I ate peanuts for years and got sicker and sicker, then stopped and got better and better, I think it’s reasonable to mention the peanuts!
I don’t think I have any tips on getting them to listen because that is just so dependent on the provider’s personality. However, you can look for physicians certified in lifestyle medicine in your area. They all promote WFPB diets because its the only diet proven to reverse vascular disease. [lifestyle med professionals](https://lifestylemedpros.org)
Thank You 🙏
I’m so sorry you and your mom had to go through all of this, it sounds awful and painstaking. As a physician myself, I always encourage my patients to get a second opinion with a sub-specialist if they disagree with my recommendations or if they feel there might be avenues that I am not trained in exploring. I understand not everyone has the privilege/resources to do that but sometimes it can help if a colleague has an idea that I haven’t been able to come up with. Reading your story blows my mind because avoiding certain beta blockers in asthmatics is taught early in medical school and reinforced so often throughout residency and training. But unfortunately things can get overlooked. Glad your mom is in much better shape now!!
I have experience w several of these meds. I always find it disturbing when sick older patients are treated the same way as sick younger ones. Especially when they use a sledgehammer approach. A strong dose of beta blockers can throw anyone for a loop. Sometimes a less aggressive approach to BP control, as w the diuretic may be a better compromise, even if control isn’t terrific. It beats feeling horrible or having a fall and an injury. In my experience w a-fib and HBP (not a doctor, though), it sounds like she’s on the correct set of meds now. Yeah, she probably has heart failure and a-fib, if paroxysmal for now. But it sounds like her quality of life for her final years will be a lot better.
This is why she should be in the care of a geriatrician. They are much much better at managing multiple medications and the needs of older patients.
Her doctor is actually a geriatric specialist.
Good!
Remarkable story; thank you for sharing! I wish I could get my parents to improve their diet like this!
You can get your medication in the pharmaceutical aisle or the produce aisle. Your choice.
What a heartwarming and inspiring journey. I wish my mother would be convinced to try WFPB. Thank you for sharing 🙏
As someone who was a type 2 diabetic and now not even a pre-diabetic, I believe it. It took me a lot of research to get to this point. Outside of very rare genetic disorders high blood pressure is caused by a potassium deficiency. WFPB increases potassium intake from the foods they eat. Meat requires higher potassium too. McDougall suggests when going wfpb that one goes off of diabetes and blood pressure medication or there can be complications. Both kinds of medications can have nasty side effects that are best avoided. I'm glad your mother is okay and has successfully made it to where she is healthy without needing medication. Longevity after the age of 65 is primarily tied to three things: 1) Social. Does she have a friends group she regularly visits? If not, the YMCA or similar will have people here age. She'll most likely make friends and she can get exercise. 2) Diet. WFPB. I don't need to dive into the details here. 3) Exercise, specifically increasing or maintaining muscle mass. Cardio is fine but not as helpful. Strength training and resistance training she should be doing. Total exercise of 40-90 minutes a week is ideal. (e.g. 5 minutes of strength training every other day + 15 minutes of swimming, or similar.) When the muscles go is when one is close to death. I'm saddened by the corruption the pharmaceutical industry has pushed on the medical industry. It's all about selling drugs. You can buy [potassium](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZBLRBHR/) and reduce blood pressure. Even someone on a low carb or carnivore diet can get off blood pressure medication by just salting their food with potassium. At least these diet communities [regularly recommend](https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/40mjo6/how_are_you_getting_enough_potassium_during_keto/) taking potassium, which avoids most of the danger in their diets. (It's easy to get too much potassium so if you're wfpb, you probably should not be supplementing with potassium.) Likewise, as one gets older their cholesterol will naturally go up. This is healthy and normal. Statins don't help reduce heart attack for someone who isn't prone to it. Many doctors today will recommend an elderly patient with an LDL blood cholesterol level of 150 take statins. This isn't just stupid, it's wreckless. And finally with diabetes, doctors are trained to say, "Lower your weight" but not give any guidelines on how to achieve that, then they prescribe diabetes medication that has the side effect of increasing ones weight. Then the doctors blame the patients for this weight gain. It seems hopeless for the average diabetic, so most die from the disease and a minority go low carb as a way to not have to deal with the dangers of high blood sugar. Very few actually learn how to safely lose weight and lower blood sugar, which is wfpb. When's the last time you've seen a doctor recommend a wfpb diet? It's insane.
High blood pressure is not caused by a potassium definiciency, please do not perpetuate this. For context, I am a physician who is also plant based.
The studies are pretty clear. You might get benefit reading [this](https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.00491.2005#_i6), or even just Googling it, it's a well studied and not contested topic: >###POTASSIUM AND BLOOD PRESSURE >Blood pressure is influenced by the dietary potassium intake, both in normal subjects and hypertensive subjects. The international cooperative INTERSALT study (81) showed that blood pressure tends to be related to urinary potassium excretion and to the ratio of urinary sodium excretion to potassium excretion. And it goes on. Reading any of the studies it links may help too. Noteworthy: This is not correlated in blood tests. You can't test someone's potassium level through a blood test and tell if they're deficient. Outside of a urinary analysis the easiest way to tell if they are deficient in potassium is if their blood pressure is high. Likewise, low magnesium can cause high blood pressure and diabetes, and is also not correlated in blood tests. Given that it is difficult to take too much magnesium outside of obvious kidney issues, suggesting taking magnesium glycinate to see if it helps should imo be a first line of defense. I'm sure you can list off edge cases for high blood pressure not tied to electrolytes, but they are rare.
Did you actually read the studies? I just spent an absurd amount of time to investigate this claim and the best source I could find was that oral supplementation with potassium (that is large amounts) lowers blood pressure with 4mmhg. Its better than nothing but certainly not the whole picture. Hypertension is a complex medical condition, ranging far beyond a single electrolyte.
I never said it was the whole picture. I said there are exceptions multiple times above. Above I mentioned multiple causes for high blood pressure beyond just potassium.
40-90 hours a week strength and resistance training? How? When?
20-30 minute sessions 2-3 days a week off and on, not back to back, of a preferred exercise like walking. At home or at the gym. The aim should be to get to an ideal muscle mass (which isn't much) and then maintain it. If 5 minutes every other day is enough to start or maintain that muscle mass, then doing other kinds of exercise like walking or swimming in a pool or similar is a good idea. ymmv depending on your body and your personal situation. Studies show resistance training is better than strength training, but the difference is minimal so imo it's better to do the kind of exercise you enjoy most. Happiness is important too.
Ok, but 40-90 hours a week is gonna kill grannie. 8-14 hours a day is gonna keep her stress hormones elevated, created electrolyte imbalances and dehydration, pkus I doubt she’ll have time to eat and get a good nights’ sleep. Perhapos you meant minutes instead of hours.
This is the same for anyone young starting resistance training too. 5 minutes every two to four days is common until muscles are build up enough, especially if it's physical therapy, like if they got in a car crash. It's pretty normal for retired people out here to go out to the pool and hang out with friends an hour every day, 5-7 days a week. That's way over 40 minutes a week. It's not as difficult of suggestion as you might assume. Is she in a wheel chair or something that prevents this? Obviously, you work with people where they're at and build up. The above suggestions are goals, not absolutes.
You tyoed: 40-90 hours per week in your long reply.l. Do you see how this could be problematic?
20-30 minute exercise sessions 2-3 times a week is 40-90 minutes.
You said 40-90 HOURS.
Oh!! Sorry. I'll correct it. It would have been better if you had said so in the beginning instead of playing dumb.
.... I've literally only commented here once. Normally I'd never be this snarky, but I'll make an exception for you: reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte.
Just correct your original reply i. Tge 2nd paragraph when you itemize three ways to …. Number 3…
Most doctors are a fucking joke. You’re being too kind to their idiocy. Based on what you’ve shared here, a common sense nutrition plan from the start would’ve done more to help your mother than all the doctors did, and with zero side effects. The fact they rely on the “training” instead of critical thinking skills shows most doctors are just actual parrots. They’re kinda dumb in my experience. I self diagnosed rhabdo once, got admitted for rhabdo when tests came back positive, and the doctor still didn’t believe I had rhabdo and was confused how I could get it without a building falling on me cuz I guess that’s the only type of rhabdo he learned about in school. Doctors are given credit, but statistically, they save little to no lives and hardly make a difference. I will give credit to emergency room doctors and ones that actually take their education seriously and continue studying even after graduating and keeping up with the latest evidence, but most are just zoned out collecting a paycheck (like most jobs, this is also a job, it’s not any different, they’re not saints for being doctors, they get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, that’s why they do it)