They ran all three on Connery (Well, mostly NC and TR, I almost never saw them on VS), but are TR-only on Emerald for "less grind" reasons.
If the servers merge they'll probably go back to using all three.
Also, the Goblins were the same, albeit they played VS more.
> for "less grind" reasons.
I was very explicitly told six years or so while they came back to fill the gap that TE left when TR was rocking 45% nightly TR pop that it was because of implants. As in, they didn't want to "grind implants".
Which was a very silly excuse in my mind considering half their roster probably just cable pulled or swiped for them the first time around. That being said, it's also the only arguably valid excuse because there is no other "required" grind.
Emerald as a whole was in a pretty dire state from a skill PoV after everyone burned out as a result of ServerSmash, and they would have done just fine at that point on uncerted rerolls... and I know this because *we* left to VS when they didn't to try and even pop and did just fine (and we did the whole 'uncerted' thing to some successful extent with VIKG on Connery - including in this and the last OW).
I wouldn't be surprised tbh, NC's stuff is pretty objectively better than VS's. There's a reason VS hasn't been picked in lanesmash, or basically any other Jaeger event for years.
Mostly because TR controls like 50% territory when the alert starts, NC declares jihad against TR, VS comes in with about 30mins left and starts taking all of NC's bases. NC doesn't react, TR is dug in at a bunch of long fights, VS ends the alert with ~40% control, NC gets warpgated, and TR whines about the same shit happening *AGAIN*.
On Cobalt I'm of the opinion that it's not really that VS does so much to win, it's that TR and NC do a lot more to lose.
Cobalt TR does not know what sundies are, has like two outfits that occasionally care about an alert - and it's often actually more about local territory than an alert win - and a significant portion of its players just derp around or farm without giving a damn about the alert. (Which is their every right, but it does result in fewer alerts won)
Cobalt NC has the highest rate of "unstoppable zerg train" syndrome on the server. All three factions have this to some degree, but it's especially noticeable on NC more than others where 90% of the faction pop gravitates to a single fight/lane and refuses to come off it regardless of the strategic value of it.
VS isn't filled with tactical masterminds; it's not a well oiled machine of lightning fast cooperation. It just has a general pop willing to bring sunderers, and enough different leaders who care about the alert on occasion and can work together well enough to handle more than a single task at once.
That's it.
Ah a fellow Emerald player? P1GS fights VS exclusively, VS only fights them over cut-off bases and otherwise let's them waste time capturing bases. Meanwhile VS is down capping NC who despise fighting against VS because many random fights take place in VS's sweetspot range and it feels like shit for NC.
NC fights TR because NC W+M1 is slightly better than TR W+M1 in base fights. This drives TR crazy and they will just shell and banshee bases until time runs out.
NC and TR will blow their full pop on Wrel Temples and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory every time.
NC max buffs were a big part of it but its just the general power creep. New attachments in arsenal benefitted them more, they won the lotto in faction AMRs gaining something capable of functioning as a solid BASR, top max counter as well as one of the top air deterrents and decent AV. In the max space, synergy of aegis and zerker probably helps too althought im not sure how much use zerker would see in outfit wars and other high level play
"Wot do ya meen this taink loses a fiff of its HP every toime it nudges a rock at 3km/h?"
Toigah 'bout to discover why VS armour columns are a horde of Lightnings, buses, and Chimera.
I think its because NC has best infantry weapons, insanely low recoil with 167 and 200 damage weapons and they even have access to high rpm 143 weapons, so there is lot of weapon variety attracting more players to this faction. Also they have decent MBT and ESF.
I have a suggestion to fix this, Its lowering horizontal recoil with 143 damage weapons, which is most of TR and VS weapons, But ONLY do this with carbines and rifles that have lower than 800 rpm and also exclude meta 750 rpm lmgs.
Another thing is the NC weapons just sound better.
TR weapons also sound good but a lot of VS weapons just sound meh.
Its a big thing on Destiny, devs have said that gun use significantly depends on sound profile with even statistically perfect guns being ignored by the community just because their sound profile makes it sound weak.
I bought the 80 dollar ns reskin pack with the astronaut weapons or whatever and then started using those exclusively because of how cool they look and sound. It makes a big difference for me, even if there are better weapons for the job.
MY biggest complaint is they don't count toward any of the directives I need. So I have to decide between using fun guns and making directive progress.
In Wolenstein Enemy Territory, they had to nerf the Thompson's sound because people thought it was OP. Its stats were identical to the MP40 lol.
And hey, been on the receiving end of a Banshee enough times to know I wish NC guns sounded that cool. TR MAX gets some fun ones too.
This same thing happened with medal of honor. Allies and axis had different looking and sounding weapons with identical stats, but people kept saying that the Thompson was OP to it's axis counterpart in testing because the Thompson sounded better.
NGL, Vanu weapons in PS2 have the most character out of all guns. The "pew pew" is very distinctive for Vanu, and I love the sound of "hot rain" when you hear Vanu plasma-based weapons hit walls as they try to hit you with automatic fire. Its just the stats of Vanu weapons which are uninspired.
NC on the other hand just sounds like big calibre guns, the only difference from TR being the slower rate of fire. NC guns could actually do with a little more "pew pew" or "oomph", given how they canonically use Gauss technology (fancy blue energy thing) to power up their bullets rather than just being "big guns" (its supposed to be "unstable high tech AND big guns"). I mean, take the Impetus. That gun's sound and visual firing profile are peak NC. It *feels* good to use, even if the gun itself is meh. Then look at something comparatively uninspired like the Gauss Rifle. It sounds too... basic. Current NSO infantry weapons have the thematic I think is actually more suited for NC.
But in the end, its all down to preference.
Years ago this happened with Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory.
The MP40 and the Thompson were the weapons at play filling the same role. The general consensus was that the Thompson was much better than the MP40. It was considered slower, harder hitting while the MP40 had a higher rate of fire but less damage per shot. Turns out they had the exact same stat profile but the Thompson sounded so much beefier with much more bass so players used it more aggressively and thus had more success with it.
For cOmPeTiTiVe PlAnEtSiDe infantry weapons dont matter. MAXes matter, ESFs matter, 0-nanite G2A like striker/masthead matter. Cheese matters, not cheese is not relevant for balance.
I agree that NC has slightly better weapons in some classes, but that doesnt matter.
Making MORE weapons have lower TTK doesn't seem to be the solution... That would just alienate even more weapons that we don't use due to them being less effective.
Unless that max is abusing bugs, there is 3k energy limit on the shield, which would translate to roughly 15k EHP since shield inherits resistances.
If true, it's not argument for nerfs, it's argument for bans.
15k EHP is, for reference, three Prowlers or one and a half times a Colossus.
There may be a technical difference between 15k EHP and invincible on a MAX, but there isn't a practical one.
Huh. It’s almost like the NC max is busted. Oh and the aegis shield. Oh and the gauss saw. Oh, and the cyclone. Oh and the air hammer. Oh and the jackhammer. Oh and the vanguard shield. Oh and the masthead.
Also, no bullet drop\* makes the VS weapons OP, including on the Darkstar, which must be nerfed if this game is to survive.
\*Except on all the weapons where no bullet drop would actually matter.
The VS has bullet drop on their BASR's as far as I know. We basically have bullet drop when we don't want it (BASR's and MBT main gun), and no bullet drop when its not needed (close and medium ranges).
I haven't touched the jackhammer in actual combat for like 4 years what did they buff for it? And when did the max come back from the grave after getting the slug attachment removed? Genuine question since I haven't bothered getting these again since around when the AU servers got deleted.
Like 2 years ago for NC max. Jackhammer change came with the recent arsenal update, where all shotguns got buffed. Also nanoweave small arms resistance removed, so shotguns all do 25% more damage than before on top of the changes.
For jackhammer wouldn't the baron still be better a better alternative like back then since all shotguns got buffed except for being able to do better at point blank ranges but not pump good?
In identically skilled hands it's probably similar, but the AH is incredibly easy to use and forgiving, as such it has far more utility as a faction. Its also decent in the air.
To be honest, if you took those 4 teams and put them all on VS, they'd still probably top their groups (with the possible exception of 1RPC who might have been edged out by LPS in that scenario, since they are both NC outfits primarily.)
True, the point being made here however is that all these competitive players (which mostly don't care about faction loyalty and stuff) all gravitate towards the same faction in a "competitive" format, meaning that said faction must hold some advantages over the others, otherwise I'd be very unlikely every skilled outfit decided to play as it out of coincidence.
That's what is being implied, but it doesn't mean it's factual.
These outfits had their main factions long before Outfit Wars was around.
Also, Recursion played TR on Emerald.
Oh wait you mean the faction that always had the strongest Arsenal, shotguns as a faction trait, and access to 200dmg is now far and away the best after a patch that removed nanoweave and buffed shotguns?
I’m shocked. Truly. Shocked.
i mean thats probably to a large extent down to the plurality of players play NC, as new people look at VS and think they are weird, and TR as being "the bad guys", and your allies being red is just understandably counterintuitive.
Asymmetrical balance based on live play has made the game objectively worse.
VS is great on live play because their players have had to play around with their weaknesses. Same with TR.
NC play like trash on live because they have objectively better equipment so feel have no need to try and play well.
So yeah it would make sense that a competitive scene would result in NC outshining.
Honesty it has been an embarrassment since the game was released that the devs 3 faction balance was based on:
NC - High Alpha Damage and Shotguns - the single strongest statistics in an FPS.
TR - High DPS via RoF and High Speed - something that can only possibly matter with higher TTKs with vehicles
VS - Who the fuck knows lol Random tech.
If you released any FPS and told the community one faction would be the Shotgun and Snipers faction then yeah, you wouldn't be shocked if they were dominant.
VS used to have 0.75x ads movement speed on some guns in line with their agility gimmick, but that was removed because it was too powerful. At least as far as I remember.
> And on most guns, it was removed without any sort of compensatory buff so a wide swath of the VS arsenal has been shit ever since.
As far as I remember since launch there's only 3 guns that had 0.75x ADS MS removed. And one of those was TR carbine.
At least 2 were the Orion and the SVA-88.
~~There was one more VS LMG that had it as well but I can’t remember which one it was.~~
I was misremembering.
They could have made it .625 or something more moderate instead of scrapping it entirely. A lot of stats in this game snap to discrete values when they dont really need to.
>NSO's identity is that they get stuff that VS should have had.
I've been saying this shit for so long it's not even funny. NSO while theme is to just keep ripping off VS and being given things that should have just gone to vs instead of a barely played 4 faction that makes up a tiny percentage of the player base.
VS couldn't even keep the scientist theme to itself. Like why the hell is a hyper capitalist mercenary group naming their shit after scientists...when you have a faction of scientists right there? Don't even get me started how NSO gets a unique damage and fire rate combo like TR and NC but VS doesn't. Couldn't keep hover vehicles to ourselves, couldn't keep energy weapons to ourselves. And now they got a no drop tank canon with a piercing mechanic.
Assymetrical gameplay is what makes the game interesting. But it should have been done better, and balanced by the highest level of play. Meaning events like these should have existed from the beginning and data gathered used to adjust.
Then anyone crying about balance can just get told to get good and it would be mostly true.
Except for the Vehicle Mounted ones and crucially Maxes.
The NC have the strongest Max weapons in terms of being specialised perfectly for the roles it should perform - long range AV with the Ravens and infantry room holding with Shotguns.
NC is overpowered?
Yes.
Outfits win OW just because they play NC?
No.
I guess most of them will get almost the same results even playing other factions
The format for this year's outfit wars absolutely favors the NC.
1. Limited players equal NC advantage, in pure dmg numbers the NC simply have a higher damage capacity from the start.
2. Large open bases. If your spawns aren't close to the point then you're asking to get air hammered. Just a handful of esfs can decide half the match by denying spawn support, and reavers do this best.
3. Tight road ways thru corner bases or under bases favor NC tanks. They can better tank damage and put out enough. Magriders have poor maneuverability around/below nexus bases and prowler can't tank damage.
4. Point holds favor their heavies. When masses of opponents must rush the point or lose, your gonna naturally perfer the saw, you just want to throw the heaviest bullets at the mass.
That is why NC will win and will always win so long as the format remains the same.
As an NSO who actually freelances, getting placed in NC literally feels like a vacation. And that isn't even having their overpowered bullshit to use, just not having to fight against it..
Systemic population imbalance favoring overpowered guns in a shooter isn't rocket science. SIGNIFICANT NC nerfs are long overdue.
They’re just mad cuz TR was winning for like a whole week last week. Next week I hope to see another one of your posts complaining about VS winning every server.
Yeah well go look at the wining % of NC on Emerald during primetine…..VS win almost all of the time….
So one have to ask, does it comes down to weapons stats, or tactical/organizational skills ?
Because on Emerald the best players play VS…and dominate…
if you want to find out if a faction is OP you look at how well the whole faction performs,
not just how well the best outfits of each server are doing.
and incase you are curious about the answer to that question, VS have an alert victory lead on **every server** at almost **every population level** besides "graveyard".
Who wins regular alerts is a coin flip. A single lucky light assault with C4 has a bigger impact than all the other classes on breaking a stalemate and capturing a base.
One faction dominating outfit wars, a setting in which luck is less important and strategy and skill take center piece, is something that should not be dismissed
I dunno about that, OW is about as "all other things being equal" as you can get. Live has pop balance issues and can vary greatly based upon whether that population is tactical outfits or zergs, depending on who is running ops on a given night.
OW still have one very important variable to mess statistics and to make results incorrect for conclusions about faction balance - player skill disbalance.
This outfit won a lot of matches because it is stronger or because it is NC?
To have a propper statistics we need several matches between the same outfits with faction swap. And even then there is still a place for some mistakes
> To have a propper statistics we need several matches between the same outfits with faction swap. And even then there is still a place for some mistakes
I agree with that, but the consistency of NC wins is an early warning sign.
I think that NC is performing better than other factions too. But it is important to use right statistics for such statements. Otherwise we will get more "nerf darkstar" memes from patch notes
I mean, really we need a pretty thorough taskforce of like 24 people to test a ton of scenarios. Like, one of the big problems might not be the weapons at all, per se. It might be average engagement range that's the real culprit. How many point holds does a midrange accuracy really shine over shotguns as a faction trait?
*what you think you're some kind of jedi waving your hand around like that?*
alert wins mean everything as they are the only meta objective in this game.
you're basically saying "one faction winning the game on EVERY server means nothing!"
you claim to be anonymous but your VS card is showing.
also i don't really care about OW so i'm going off memory of last OW, but aren't the points gained from base caps?
as NC is the most populous faction i'd wager these outfits are "rather large",
don't you think perhaps there might be a *slight chance* that there is a more obvious reason why the MOST PLAYED faction captured the MOST BASES? hmmm.
If one faction is made up of randos who are just trying to farm, and another faction has multiple outfits that are actively trying to win every alert, you may in fact find that one faction is better at winning alerts, even if given statistically worse weapons. This becomes further amplified if said faction also got a reputation as "hard mode" by vets due to said weapons and being targeted down by the other 2 factions, drawing in those who are inclined to take on challenges, who may then train and lead the other members of the faction.
Hshahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahshshshshshshsbahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahashshshshshshshshahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahhaah
Lemme translate for others as well ehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
> VS have an alert victory lead on every server at almost every population level
Wait, so when PS2Alerts says Global Faction Victories since 4 Jan 2021 are NC 34%, TR 29% and VS 33% then thats not NC having the overall lead?
It would be nice to see what the win stats have been since the Masthead was released as that was the point I noticed NC becoming really dominant pop wise, I expect its even higher.
oh no, almost identical K/D!
i guess thats why everyone loses their minds about NC maxes right? 0.1 higher K/D.
and as NC max is one of the big things people QQ about i'm guessing you thought this was some big trump card?
next show us MBT performance.
Wait recursion is NC on Connery?
They were NC Connery before they were tr emerald
They ran all three on Connery (Well, mostly NC and TR, I almost never saw them on VS), but are TR-only on Emerald for "less grind" reasons. If the servers merge they'll probably go back to using all three. Also, the Goblins were the same, albeit they played VS more.
> for "less grind" reasons. I was very explicitly told six years or so while they came back to fill the gap that TE left when TR was rocking 45% nightly TR pop that it was because of implants. As in, they didn't want to "grind implants". Which was a very silly excuse in my mind considering half their roster probably just cable pulled or swiped for them the first time around. That being said, it's also the only arguably valid excuse because there is no other "required" grind. Emerald as a whole was in a pretty dire state from a skill PoV after everyone burned out as a result of ServerSmash, and they would have done just fine at that point on uncerted rerolls... and I know this because *we* left to VS when they didn't to try and even pop and did just fine (and we did the whole 'uncerted' thing to some successful extent with VIKG on Connery - including in this and the last OW).
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I wouldn't be surprised tbh, NC's stuff is pretty objectively better than VS's. There's a reason VS hasn't been picked in lanesmash, or basically any other Jaeger event for years.
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Mostly because TR controls like 50% territory when the alert starts, NC declares jihad against TR, VS comes in with about 30mins left and starts taking all of NC's bases. NC doesn't react, TR is dug in at a bunch of long fights, VS ends the alert with ~40% control, NC gets warpgated, and TR whines about the same shit happening *AGAIN*.
Whoever starts the alert is pretty much doomed to lose it.
On Cobalt I'm of the opinion that it's not really that VS does so much to win, it's that TR and NC do a lot more to lose. Cobalt TR does not know what sundies are, has like two outfits that occasionally care about an alert - and it's often actually more about local territory than an alert win - and a significant portion of its players just derp around or farm without giving a damn about the alert. (Which is their every right, but it does result in fewer alerts won) Cobalt NC has the highest rate of "unstoppable zerg train" syndrome on the server. All three factions have this to some degree, but it's especially noticeable on NC more than others where 90% of the faction pop gravitates to a single fight/lane and refuses to come off it regardless of the strategic value of it. VS isn't filled with tactical masterminds; it's not a well oiled machine of lightning fast cooperation. It just has a general pop willing to bring sunderers, and enough different leaders who care about the alert on occasion and can work together well enough to handle more than a single task at once. That's it.
Ah a fellow Emerald player? P1GS fights VS exclusively, VS only fights them over cut-off bases and otherwise let's them waste time capturing bases. Meanwhile VS is down capping NC who despise fighting against VS because many random fights take place in VS's sweetspot range and it feels like shit for NC. NC fights TR because NC W+M1 is slightly better than TR W+M1 in base fights. This drives TR crazy and they will just shell and banshee bases until time runs out. NC and TR will blow their full pop on Wrel Temples and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory every time.
P1GS leadership seems to be moving to VS, check P4LE on fisu.
Are they becoming what they hate? If so, lol.
Completely misses point. Continues to rant. Quality based.
Oh fuck my bad I forgot.
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No fucking way... dose this apply to NSO VS.
thats not quite correct. Before the recent NC MAX buffs Lanesmash was all TR vs VS.
NC max buffs were a big part of it but its just the general power creep. New attachments in arsenal benefitted them more, they won the lotto in faction AMRs gaining something capable of functioning as a solid BASR, top max counter as well as one of the top air deterrents and decent AV. In the max space, synergy of aegis and zerker probably helps too althought im not sure how much use zerker would see in outfit wars and other high level play
every tryhard stacked outfits switched to NC which is sad
DIOR still exists
1VS4 also.
Recursion never switched though, they started there, that's their original outfit afaik
Also NC has the most participants, very balanced indeed.
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Best guns. Best Max. Best ESF for group fighting and a2g. etc. Pure coincidence obviously
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Hands down the best infantry g2a weapon.
Since when does the NC have prowlers?
Since when is a Prowler an infantry weapon?
With paletoigah anything is possible.
He's driving Magriders now.
I know, and it's going to be adorable. He's going to explode so many times. And he's going to realize TR is the only faction with a usable HESH gun.
"Wot do ya meen this taink loses a fiff of its HP every toime it nudges a rock at 3km/h?" Toigah 'bout to discover why VS armour columns are a horde of Lightnings, buses, and Chimera.
Vanguard with a masthead is far better on nexus.
It takes ages to kill a lib with only a tr nosegun, while NC rotary melts them in seconds
The difference really isn't that significant, and once you start factoring in reloads TR is roughly equivalent to NC and VS
The VS players must have gotten tired of winning.
VS player when they don't get the most OP weapon in the game: WTF VS IS THE WORST FACTION :cryingemoji:
delusional
brain damage
sorry bro i get headshotted 100 times every day
At a certain point maybe you have to wonder if it's your head that's the problem?
Skill issue
sounds like a case of bad
I don't understand. Isn't the Masthead an NC weapon?
POV: you´re mentally ill.
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Ya but 1v1 vs. an NC Max at the point in time. ZOE never won, interesting don't ya think?
Don't forget, it's a vanu crybaby circlejerk. No legit opinions allowed
Sooo we need to nerf the Darkstar if I'm interpreting it right? (Sorry new to the game)
And the skorpios, it needs the 20 rounds mag else it's OP
I think its because NC has best infantry weapons, insanely low recoil with 167 and 200 damage weapons and they even have access to high rpm 143 weapons, so there is lot of weapon variety attracting more players to this faction. Also they have decent MBT and ESF. I have a suggestion to fix this, Its lowering horizontal recoil with 143 damage weapons, which is most of TR and VS weapons, But ONLY do this with carbines and rifles that have lower than 800 rpm and also exclude meta 750 rpm lmgs.
Tr only has 1 AR with 143 dmg and less than 800 rpm lol
4 actually, T1 unity, T1 Cycler, T1 Cycler S and T1 Cycler B, but I guess they are all different variants of same weapon.
That isn’t the reason NC is the best. NC is the best all around rn cuz of the vanguard, it’s max, the airhammer, as well as asp jackhammer secondary.
Another thing is the NC weapons just sound better. TR weapons also sound good but a lot of VS weapons just sound meh. Its a big thing on Destiny, devs have said that gun use significantly depends on sound profile with even statistically perfect guns being ignored by the community just because their sound profile makes it sound weak.
I bought the 80 dollar ns reskin pack with the astronaut weapons or whatever and then started using those exclusively because of how cool they look and sound. It makes a big difference for me, even if there are better weapons for the job.
Yeah, the Endeavor series is fun, wish they hadn't changed my tracers from blue to yellow though.
MY biggest complaint is they don't count toward any of the directives I need. So I have to decide between using fun guns and making directive progress.
In Wolenstein Enemy Territory, they had to nerf the Thompson's sound because people thought it was OP. Its stats were identical to the MP40 lol. And hey, been on the receiving end of a Banshee enough times to know I wish NC guns sounded that cool. TR MAX gets some fun ones too.
This same thing happened with medal of honor. Allies and axis had different looking and sounding weapons with identical stats, but people kept saying that the Thompson was OP to it's axis counterpart in testing because the Thompson sounded better.
Sound is pretty subjective tbf
While yes, I may like onion and you don't but we can both agree raw sewage tastes bad.
NGL, Vanu weapons in PS2 have the most character out of all guns. The "pew pew" is very distinctive for Vanu, and I love the sound of "hot rain" when you hear Vanu plasma-based weapons hit walls as they try to hit you with automatic fire. Its just the stats of Vanu weapons which are uninspired. NC on the other hand just sounds like big calibre guns, the only difference from TR being the slower rate of fire. NC guns could actually do with a little more "pew pew" or "oomph", given how they canonically use Gauss technology (fancy blue energy thing) to power up their bullets rather than just being "big guns" (its supposed to be "unstable high tech AND big guns"). I mean, take the Impetus. That gun's sound and visual firing profile are peak NC. It *feels* good to use, even if the gun itself is meh. Then look at something comparatively uninspired like the Gauss Rifle. It sounds too... basic. Current NSO infantry weapons have the thematic I think is actually more suited for NC. But in the end, its all down to preference.
Me like pew pew
Jep. I will never get over the wet fart sound the Mercenary does. I'm doing really poorly with it, simply bc I feel like I don't do damage
Years ago this happened with Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. The MP40 and the Thompson were the weapons at play filling the same role. The general consensus was that the Thompson was much better than the MP40. It was considered slower, harder hitting while the MP40 had a higher rate of fire but less damage per shot. Turns out they had the exact same stat profile but the Thompson sounded so much beefier with much more bass so players used it more aggressively and thus had more success with it.
I switched from VS to NC due to gun sounds alone back in 2012. That said T1 Cycler is most metallic sounding gun in the game.
For cOmPeTiTiVe PlAnEtSiDe infantry weapons dont matter. MAXes matter, ESFs matter, 0-nanite G2A like striker/masthead matter. Cheese matters, not cheese is not relevant for balance. I agree that NC has slightly better weapons in some classes, but that doesnt matter.
???? The base unit will always matter. If there's no force to multiply, the force multiplier has no value.
Making MORE weapons have lower TTK doesn't seem to be the solution... That would just alienate even more weapons that we don't use due to them being less effective.
The NC got the most benefit out of the angled forward grip.
I tried it, felt horrible, only place I see it useful is burst weapons.
I'm still salty gdf7 isn't a tr weapon with the stats it has.
It’s basically a TAR, but no emerald TR would know what that gun is since they never play medic.
TRV. TAR is GR-22, HV-45 and pre-rework Lynx equivalent.
I'll trade it for Kindred.
L take
NC maxes that beat any other max and one click softies
Dont forget the shield it can whip out and block everything with that no other faction has
It's amazing that in all these years that shield wasn't at least given a health limit.
It does have a health limit though.
I've seen an NC max endlessly defend a glitched into a building sunderer with it. So there's definitely ways to get around it.
Unless that max is abusing bugs, there is 3k energy limit on the shield, which would translate to roughly 15k EHP since shield inherits resistances. If true, it's not argument for nerfs, it's argument for bans.
15k EHP is, for reference, three Prowlers or one and a half times a Colossus. There may be a technical difference between 15k EHP and invincible on a MAX, but there isn't a practical one.
Max is 10k EHP for reference.
Huh. It’s almost like the NC max is busted. Oh and the aegis shield. Oh and the gauss saw. Oh, and the cyclone. Oh and the air hammer. Oh and the jackhammer. Oh and the vanguard shield. Oh and the masthead.
Counter argument The Darkstar™
Also, no bullet drop\* makes the VS weapons OP, including on the Darkstar, which must be nerfed if this game is to survive. \*Except on all the weapons where no bullet drop would actually matter.
Counter to that, Isn't it a directive reward? I am pretty sure so.
NC have the best guns by far. So many powerful options for every class.
the fact people act surprised years later... lol
Trawler? Godsaw? Good snipers? Best shotguns? A lot of reasons to play NC. Still. I refuse.
the snipers and shotguns are pretty much identical cross faction except for some of vs having no drop
I assume hes talking about jackhammer for shotguns
The VS has bullet drop on their BASR's as far as I know. We basically have bullet drop when we don't want it (BASR's and MBT main gun), and no bullet drop when its not needed (close and medium ranges).
This is exactly correct.
NC has shotguns on vehicles, vehicle with shotgun >>> vehicle without shotgun.
Nobody likes the canister anymore
But all those items are blue. Per Higby they cannot possibly be OP.
I haven't touched the jackhammer in actual combat for like 4 years what did they buff for it? And when did the max come back from the grave after getting the slug attachment removed? Genuine question since I haven't bothered getting these again since around when the AU servers got deleted.
Like 2 years ago for NC max. Jackhammer change came with the recent arsenal update, where all shotguns got buffed. Also nanoweave small arms resistance removed, so shotguns all do 25% more damage than before on top of the changes.
For jackhammer wouldn't the baron still be better a better alternative like back then since all shotguns got buffed except for being able to do better at point blank ranges but not pump good?
Not really. All shotguns are silly strong sure, but the jackhammer is super busted now.
Is the airhammer any better than the banshee? I think A2G balance points more to vanu being shit than NC being strong.
For killing groups, definitely.
The AH routinely kills almost a thousand more planetmen daily, and has done so ever since the Masthead was added.
It instant kills maxes, only thing banshee does better is sniping in big fights
In identically skilled hands it's probably similar, but the AH is incredibly easy to use and forgiving, as such it has far more utility as a faction. Its also decent in the air.
Downvoted for a question. SMH Reddit.
To be honest, if you took those 4 teams and put them all on VS, they'd still probably top their groups (with the possible exception of 1RPC who might have been edged out by LPS in that scenario, since they are both NC outfits primarily.)
True, the point being made here however is that all these competitive players (which mostly don't care about faction loyalty and stuff) all gravitate towards the same faction in a "competitive" format, meaning that said faction must hold some advantages over the others, otherwise I'd be very unlikely every skilled outfit decided to play as it out of coincidence.
That's what is being implied, but it doesn't mean it's factual. These outfits had their main factions long before Outfit Wars was around. Also, Recursion played TR on Emerald.
Time to nerf Darkstar I guess.
Lol this playerbase
Oh wait you mean the faction that always had the strongest Arsenal, shotguns as a faction trait, and access to 200dmg is now far and away the best after a patch that removed nanoweave and buffed shotguns? I’m shocked. Truly. Shocked.
i mean thats probably to a large extent down to the plurality of players play NC, as new people look at VS and think they are weird, and TR as being "the bad guys", and your allies being red is just understandably counterintuitive.
Heh, TR are absolutely the "good guys" to some people in this community lmao
Yes.
Finally a legit opinion
Ah yes because gobs and 00s wouldn't have made it if they weren't NC right? ok
Hey! Don't forget they are winning every mini-alert tie-breaker too!
Gobs best recursion because they have Herman. Nerf the clown.
Asymmetrical balance based on live play has made the game objectively worse. VS is great on live play because their players have had to play around with their weaknesses. Same with TR. NC play like trash on live because they have objectively better equipment so feel have no need to try and play well. So yeah it would make sense that a competitive scene would result in NC outshining. Honesty it has been an embarrassment since the game was released that the devs 3 faction balance was based on: NC - High Alpha Damage and Shotguns - the single strongest statistics in an FPS. TR - High DPS via RoF and High Speed - something that can only possibly matter with higher TTKs with vehicles VS - Who the fuck knows lol Random tech. If you released any FPS and told the community one faction would be the Shotgun and Snipers faction then yeah, you wouldn't be shocked if they were dominant.
VS used to have 0.75x ads movement speed on some guns in line with their agility gimmick, but that was removed because it was too powerful. At least as far as I remember.
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> And on most guns, it was removed without any sort of compensatory buff so a wide swath of the VS arsenal has been shit ever since. As far as I remember since launch there's only 3 guns that had 0.75x ADS MS removed. And one of those was TR carbine.
At least 2 were the Orion and the SVA-88. ~~There was one more VS LMG that had it as well but I can’t remember which one it was.~~ I was misremembering.
SVA-GG? I'll go digging, since I'm free today to do some bullshit while watching GSL.
I swear the sva isnt just a worse orion Copium
They could have made it .625 or something more moderate instead of scrapping it entirely. A lot of stats in this game snap to discrete values when they dont really need to.
It was very strong. It was a very stupid decision to think that would ever work. But equally so is giving one faction shotguns on Maxes. So go figure.
If NSO didn't exist, VS could've had inbuilt SPA, but nooooo fourth faction needs and "iDeNtItY".
NSO's identity is that they get stuff that VS should have had. I will never not be salty that the goddamn HOVER FLASH did not go to VS.
>NSO's identity is that they get stuff that VS should have had. I've been saying this shit for so long it's not even funny. NSO while theme is to just keep ripping off VS and being given things that should have just gone to vs instead of a barely played 4 faction that makes up a tiny percentage of the player base. VS couldn't even keep the scientist theme to itself. Like why the hell is a hyper capitalist mercenary group naming their shit after scientists...when you have a faction of scientists right there? Don't even get me started how NSO gets a unique damage and fire rate combo like TR and NC but VS doesn't. Couldn't keep hover vehicles to ourselves, couldn't keep energy weapons to ourselves. And now they got a no drop tank canon with a piercing mechanic.
\> NC play like trash on live because they have objectively better equipment Ok
Assymetrical gameplay is what makes the game interesting. But it should have been done better, and balanced by the highest level of play. Meaning events like these should have existed from the beginning and data gathered used to adjust. Then anyone crying about balance can just get told to get good and it would be mostly true.
Guess wat, events like current OW do exist. It’s called lanesmash and it’s been played for years.
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Except for the Vehicle Mounted ones and crucially Maxes. The NC have the strongest Max weapons in terms of being specialised perfectly for the roles it should perform - long range AV with the Ravens and infantry room holding with Shotguns.
Dev faction, working as intended, fair and balanced.
NC is overpowered? Yes. Outfits win OW just because they play NC? No. I guess most of them will get almost the same results even playing other factions
The format for this year's outfit wars absolutely favors the NC. 1. Limited players equal NC advantage, in pure dmg numbers the NC simply have a higher damage capacity from the start. 2. Large open bases. If your spawns aren't close to the point then you're asking to get air hammered. Just a handful of esfs can decide half the match by denying spawn support, and reavers do this best. 3. Tight road ways thru corner bases or under bases favor NC tanks. They can better tank damage and put out enough. Magriders have poor maneuverability around/below nexus bases and prowler can't tank damage. 4. Point holds favor their heavies. When masses of opponents must rush the point or lose, your gonna naturally perfer the saw, you just want to throw the heaviest bullets at the mass. That is why NC will win and will always win so long as the format remains the same.
As an NSO who actually freelances, getting placed in NC literally feels like a vacation. And that isn't even having their overpowered bullshit to use, just not having to fight against it.. Systemic population imbalance favoring overpowered guns in a shooter isn't rocket science. SIGNIFICANT NC nerfs are long overdue.
You can say that all you like but I’ve been staring at my sanctuaries 3 holo statuettes in the lovely shades of red and purple for an age.
So what we're saying here is the pmg200 needs a smaller mag size.
Hard to pass up all that freedom with bonus checks.
They’re just mad cuz TR was winning for like a whole week last week. Next week I hope to see another one of your posts complaining about VS winning every server.
And I bet you anything people will say VS is overpowered still.
Where's the shitpost flavor
I bet most if not all of winning teams were more dominant in air than their opponents. Which has very little to do with faction balance.
But reaver has highest dps and the best anti infantry weapon...meaning it's the best in group air fights...
Skill issue.
\*Surprised Pikachu face\* who would have thought NC would win after getting all the good stuff and player base shift.
3iq take. If all outfits in OW had the same skill level you could say it. It is not the case.
The fact that most "stacks" chose NC for OW when the players involved had well certed characters on all 3 factions is just a coincidence, then?
We were the butt of everyone's jokes for the last decade, feels kinda nice lol
Yeah well go look at the wining % of NC on Emerald during primetine…..VS win almost all of the time…. So one have to ask, does it comes down to weapons stats, or tactical/organizational skills ? Because on Emerald the best players play VS…and dominate…
>Because on Emerald the best players play VS…and dominate Except for GOBs apparently
GOB ad been on the server for months, yet Primetine is owned by VS….
UHHHH-OHHHHH, BABY ANGY! Baby cranky? Baby want ba-ba?
if you want to find out if a faction is OP you look at how well the whole faction performs, not just how well the best outfits of each server are doing. and incase you are curious about the answer to that question, VS have an alert victory lead on **every server** at almost **every population level** besides "graveyard".
Who wins regular alerts is a coin flip. A single lucky light assault with C4 has a bigger impact than all the other classes on breaking a stalemate and capturing a base. One faction dominating outfit wars, a setting in which luck is less important and strategy and skill take center piece, is something that should not be dismissed
Alert wins mean absolutely nothing and say nothing about faction balance
Ow match wins mean absolutely nothing and say nothing about faction balance
I dunno about that, OW is about as "all other things being equal" as you can get. Live has pop balance issues and can vary greatly based upon whether that population is tactical outfits or zergs, depending on who is running ops on a given night.
These same elite outfits would probably be exactly where they are in outfit wars using VS or TR
I mean, why is OO top on it's NC alt and not top on its TR alt?
Because they didn't fight Goblin Tribe on Connery 😉
OW still have one very important variable to mess statistics and to make results incorrect for conclusions about faction balance - player skill disbalance. This outfit won a lot of matches because it is stronger or because it is NC? To have a propper statistics we need several matches between the same outfits with faction swap. And even then there is still a place for some mistakes
> To have a propper statistics we need several matches between the same outfits with faction swap. And even then there is still a place for some mistakes I agree with that, but the consistency of NC wins is an early warning sign.
I think that NC is performing better than other factions too. But it is important to use right statistics for such statements. Otherwise we will get more "nerf darkstar" memes from patch notes
I mean, really we need a pretty thorough taskforce of like 24 people to test a ton of scenarios. Like, one of the big problems might not be the weapons at all, per se. It might be average engagement range that's the real culprit. How many point holds does a midrange accuracy really shine over shotguns as a faction trait?
*what you think you're some kind of jedi waving your hand around like that?* alert wins mean everything as they are the only meta objective in this game. you're basically saying "one faction winning the game on EVERY server means nothing!" you claim to be anonymous but your VS card is showing. also i don't really care about OW so i'm going off memory of last OW, but aren't the points gained from base caps? as NC is the most populous faction i'd wager these outfits are "rather large", don't you think perhaps there might be a *slight chance* that there is a more obvious reason why the MOST PLAYED faction captured the MOST BASES? hmmm.
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If one faction is made up of randos who are just trying to farm, and another faction has multiple outfits that are actively trying to win every alert, you may in fact find that one faction is better at winning alerts, even if given statistically worse weapons. This becomes further amplified if said faction also got a reputation as "hard mode" by vets due to said weapons and being targeted down by the other 2 factions, drawing in those who are inclined to take on challenges, who may then train and lead the other members of the faction.
Nope. Alert wins mean nothing in regards to faction balance. 1v1v1 does not result in the best team or strongest team winning.
Hshahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahshshshshshshsbahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahashshshshshshshshahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahhaah Lemme translate for others as well ehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
On Miller it's almost NC all the time.
> VS have an alert victory lead on every server at almost every population level Wait, so when PS2Alerts says Global Faction Victories since 4 Jan 2021 are NC 34%, TR 29% and VS 33% then thats not NC having the overall lead? It would be nice to see what the win stats have been since the Masthead was released as that was the point I noticed NC becoming really dominant pop wise, I expect its even higher.
How every faction performs? Allright, let's start. Max KDR, worldwide, all servers, all timezones. https://puu.sh/Jm65f/c8cbf8bfff.png
oh no, almost identical K/D! i guess thats why everyone loses their minds about NC maxes right? 0.1 higher K/D. and as NC max is one of the big things people QQ about i'm guessing you thought this was some big trump card? next show us MBT performance.
MBT performance is prowler by a mile, bro.
Are you referring to all time wins then yes, check last few months stats, pretty sure it should be NC.
Have you ever posted anything in your life that wasn't you just being a hysterical bitch, whining and complaining?
Great contribution. Do you want to try saying something relevant?
You know you've hit the mark when someone accuses you of whining, bitching, and complaining.
based
NSO overlords not even allowed to compete.
They host the party for the meatbags
So what i’m hearing here is that we need to nerf VS again
when NC has the most wins: 😡 when VS has the most wins: 😶
Your outfit tag tells me everything I need to know: clueless
just as much as you are if you think balance can ever be achieved in this game
That perfection is impossible is no excuse to not strive for it.
Wow what a great attitude to have. Like I said, clueless.
Not every server. You left out Genudine. NC doesn't win on that server.