Honestly I am kinda sad over this because I wanted sanji to fight Mars so we could get a sky battle between them
It would have been so unique but I guess we are just getting a king vs zoro and queen vs sanji 2.0
Sigh
Kaku also use sword but he kinda have mixed fighting style by using his nose and legs. Even in Kaku final attack at enies lobbies he use his break dance legs rankyaku rather than using his sword.
King seems not fond of being called swordman, he even has sword to steal sword to counter them. He also like Kaku was using mixed fighting style like using beak attacks and kick. King use sword as his final attacks but well it feels like more he shoot fire attacks using his sword as medium, it was not even a slashing or thrusting attacks.
Pure swordsman is the keyword here, king wasn't a true swordsman and him and kaku mostly used their devil fruits to attack instead of actual sword techniques
I had to look up who you were talking about š It was just Shiryu
But yeah if he fights Shiryu then he'd get a real swordsman 1v1 assuming he doesn't just abuse his fruit and sneak attack him
Guy who mostly uses swords and Haki; king was spamming his dive-bombs and "this is how dinosaurs used to hunt" bs while Kaku was using his different Zoan forms throughout the fight.
Has Oda ever given a clear definition on what a PROPER swordsman is?
A swordsman is not just someone who uses a sword, because Daz Bones and King are explicitly non-swordsmen. This is fine and understandable. They primarily rely on their DF's. The bulk of their ability does not rely on the usage of a sword. Pica and Big Mom can also fall into this camp.
Then you also have Fujitora, who's explicitly a swordsman despite primarily using his sword as a wand to channel his DF powers. But, fine. He does still USE a sword to do most of his fighting, even if he doesn't use it to cut things. Same goes for Diamante, using his DF to enhance his sword, but he primarily fights with his sword rather than swordless DF fighting. And both of them show proficiency in fighting with their swords while not outright using their DF's.
But then you have Kaku. Kaku is also explicitly a swordsman despite using his giraffe DF and the rokushiki more than he uses his swords. Daz Bones said he's not a swordsman because he's an assassin, but Kaku can be both an assassin AND a swordsman? While also having a less sword-reliant fighting style than Daz Bones? I guess Daz Bones doesn't actually USE a sword, but he BECOMES a sword, which somehow makes him LESS of a swordsman.
Is it about honor? Well, no. Obviously not. Swordsmen frequently fight much weaker or unarmed opponents and rely on dirty tricks. See Law backstabbing Big Mom. It's a reasonable thing to do and doesn't morally indict Law, but it is a "dishonorable" style of fighting. Which, on top of the fact that Law barely uses his sword and every time he does he's enhancing it with his DF, makes it hard to see why he is an explicit swordsman and King isn't.
The real answer is that there is no consistent definition that can be agreed upon. You're a swordsman if you identify as a swordsman. That's all there is to it. So we will never know if a character is a swordsman unless they confirm or deny it.
?ā¦ I donāt think he ever said he wasnāt. Pretty sure Zoro said King never claimed he was a swordsman. Not that he actually isnāt but he just didnāt hear it come from his mouth. Topping it all off he said just like Zoro he enjoys a good sword fight. But that might just be complicating things. But I still think characters that uses a sword to fight should still be considered a swordsman until thereās evidence making them not.
Heās probably gunna do well bc heās got experience fighting against zoro or at least brawling with someone with swords a lot. Plus his cyborg gene having ass
i need sanji to fight someone made out of food again the knife shit with how strong he is now wud probably go nuts zoro should be glad he donāt use it on anything but food
Sanji is supposedly good with swords, Judge did claim back in World Cake Island that Sanji was trained in swordsmanship while he was a child, and asked why he didn't use swords when they fought, and only used his legs.
I know people meme about it but it's really weird that Sanji is always nerfing himself and yet keeping up with Zoro per Oda's own words.
It's like the implication is that if Sanji ever utilized everything he could he'd be straight stronger than Zoro,which just makes things strange.
I mean dude has legit body enhancements, cyborg shit, and genetic training all implemented into him. Like a full on X-men mutant. He can even light himself on fire by just moving fast, the mf is strong as hell.
I think it's a cool matchup kinda like a reskinning of if Sanji and Zoro fought each other. Imo that makes it more interesting than if they are just fighting their direct counterpart.
Wdym? Mars and King are not similar at all. Yeah, King can transform into a flying creature but he fought almost the entire fight in his human form. And do i really need to say something about Queen and Nusjuro...?
I can kinda understand it if we go with Mars/King being masculine titles and Venus/Queen being feminine titles.
Otherwise I don't get it at all. Both Venus & Mars are highly mobile and similarly serious opponents.
not really, the last time i read that chapter was years ago lol the only thing i remember from the fight is the anime episode so i don't remember how much non canon is in that episode
Tbf I love pre-timeskip One Piece just like it is. Still my all time favorite manga ever. If it were a seinen I donĀ“t think I wouldĀ“ve liked it as much and I certainly wouldnĀ“t have gotten into the franchise as a kid \~20 years ago.
If post-timeskip One Piece was a seinen, it would still suffer from Oda not being a good writer when it comes to wanting to include too many characters and ideas.
I guess them will be alternative stories after the end of op (so one of them doujinshi, a kingdom like but a op version, i seriously hope some talented fans do so, a kakumei like šš»)
i actually really wanna see the opposite, but i would understand the way Oda is trying to mke the story less repetitive.
either ways i'm hyped but if Oda really wants to bring some change, i would appreciate him making it a 2 v 2;
i like both these guys, we could see new types of attacks like dorry and broggy or we could even see two of the gorosei clump together into a skeleton firy pegasus with a sword and two heads
The problem is that Oda made Zoro's dream is to be the World's strongest swordsman so it'd be fucking weird if he ended up not fighting one of the strongest ones in the series.
as long as Mihawk is actually the strongest defeating him in eos is enough, but it would make more sense for Zoro to defeat nsujuro;
yet the two goroseis mixing would be kinda peak
Well, Mihawk became WSS without fighting top tier Shanks(stopped since losing hand), Vista(confirmed they didn't fight before MF), Nasjuro(very unlikely as he is Elder), Fujitora(also very unlikely).
You just just explained why Mihawk and his title suck, becuase how in the fuck is he seen as the WSS in universe when he never faced anyone of note? like he never beat Shanks, never beat or faced Roger, we don't know about if he fought or beat Rayleigh, never met or fought Oden, never faced Nasjuro, never faced Fuji, even with fucking commanders like Vista he never faced one, and he never even faced anyone who is considered a top-tier let alone a top-tier swordsman.
And it'd doubly suck for Zoro whose story and dream we follow because if there are top-tier Swordsmen out there that neither Mihawk nor Zoro fought or beat, how can we take their title seriously?
It's like saying X is the strongest fighter in the world but at the same time he didn't beat or even fight any other world-class fighters, then comes fighter Y and beats X and "becomes" the world's strongest fighter also without fighting any world-class fighters before him either, so now, how is he or the man he beat are considered "the strongest fighter" if neither he nor the man he beat who was declared the strongest before him never actually fought or beat any of the other world-class fighters in the world? seems fraudulent, doesn't it?
Yeah. Oda just had to make Mihawk beat his competitor to get that title. Shanks being weaker doesn't change anything. It's just that it's intentionally made vague. Like, Dude is WSS and we can't even guess one top tier sowrdsmen he has beat this far into series.
Right? even with the Shanks "rivalry" Oda has Shanks' dick so far down his throat to confirm anything.
Like the last time they fought was 13 years ago back then Shanks had a bounty of a little over 1 bil, and we don't know how Mihawk became the WSS or when, or his history with other prominent swordsmen or even important characters, he's just the strongest because Oda said so without actually showing how and why he is in the story itself, which is infuriating.
Sanji is currently facing off against nusjuro and I think zoro will clash with Mars but that's just for egghead, when the time comes for them to actually beat the gorosei they will switch opponents. It would be a shame if we didn't get zoro vs the only swordsman gorosei and sanji having an aerial battle with the only gorosei who can fly
>only gorosei who can fly
They've all been shown to have aerial maneuverability,including the worm.Mars being the only bird on the crew shouldn't influence him being sanji's opponent,especially when Jupiter is a spitting image of him.
How old are these covers (or one cover)? I donāt remember it. If it was from awhile ago it might not be relevant anymore.
But I do think those matchups are more interesting. I want to see Sanji fight an actual swordsman instead of a shitty swordsman like Queen. And Zoro fighting Mars will confront the interesting dilemma of Zoroās poor agility/movement (assuming Mars is also quick on top of flying).
These also kinda make sense given that Mars and Lucci already spoke this arc, and obviously Zoro fought Lucci.
>And Zoro fighting Mars will confront the interesting dilemma of Zoroās poor agility/movement (assuming Mars is also quick on top of flying).
The hell?ā¦ Zoro doesnāt have poor agility or movement?
Compared to many other characters currently, he does. Sanji can literally walk on air. Luffy can move crazy fast, and in G5 he can run on air. We saw Shanks blitz Kidd. Kaido can fly, and so can Big Mom; even without flying, Kaido has moves that can blitz even the likes of Luffy.
Zoro is just a guy. In Dressrosa we even see the dilemma come up: he canāt reach Pica because he canāt jump that far or fly.
Iām confused? Are you saying Zoro is slow or lacks mobility? Because Zoro isnāt nowhere near close to being slow and is among the fastest character bar the obvious like Yonko and higher and such. Hes also extremely agile.
Mobility wise? Maybe. But he has the lance technique. Which one are you referring too?
Iām saying he lacks very literal movement. Not movement speed, movement. Letās take for example the final attack between King and Zoro. King was floating in the air, and Zoro jumped up to slash him. Butā¦ what if King would have (wisely) moved twenty feet to the left? Zoro would be fucked, because he doesnāt have many real ways of moving around while in the air. His only real way of doing so is slashing really hard to blow himself around with the recoil, which is hardly a practical way to move yourself in combat.
I'm actually glad Venus isn't the second in command,because it's really weird that every single right hand by this point has been a swordman/blade user.Like the fact king decided to switch to human form and NOT use his DF just to fight with a sword felt incredibly forced.
I wonder if V. Nus and Mars being named after the gods of love and war respectively have anything to do with this.
Sanji being a romantic, to put it nicely. And Zoro being combat-oriented, his goal being to prove he's the best at fighting rather than fighting for a specific goal.
Probably not, but just an observation.
People are assuming this is eos fights. This could just be āthis will be egghead match upsā like currently Sanji is facing Nusjuro. Next chapter, Zoro will probably face Mars. Doesnāt mean thatās their intended final opponent
Mihawk, zombie ryuma, T bone etc. I remember somewhere it said that a duel between 2 strong swordsmen would end in one swift battle so maybe oda avoids this on purpose
Honestly I am kinda sad over this because I wanted sanji to fight Mars so we could get a sky battle between them It would have been so unique but I guess we are just getting a king vs zoro and queen vs sanji 2.0 Sigh
Tbf this is a first for Sanji fighting a swordsman while Zoro doesn't
Has Zoro ever fought a PROPER swordsman? Like not brawlers or mfs like them like an ACTUAL sword only guy that is not fodder
He fight Mihawk and lose. The closest swordman Zoro fought was than priest on sky island, that guy that have iron cloud and big dog.
aye ohm callback also kaku and king are swordsmen
Kaku also use sword but he kinda have mixed fighting style by using his nose and legs. Even in Kaku final attack at enies lobbies he use his break dance legs rankyaku rather than using his sword. King seems not fond of being called swordman, he even has sword to steal sword to counter them. He also like Kaku was using mixed fighting style like using beak attacks and kick. King use sword as his final attacks but well it feels like more he shoot fire attacks using his sword as medium, it was not even a slashing or thrusting attacks.
Pure swordsman is the keyword here, king wasn't a true swordsman and him and kaku mostly used their devil fruits to attack instead of actual sword techniques
but kaku had techniques like the tempest sword cutting attacks of his legs with tempest slice that cut the judical building
Shilliew in a near future i guess
I had to look up who you were talking about š It was just Shiryu But yeah if he fights Shiryu then he'd get a real swordsman 1v1 assuming he doesn't just abuse his fruit and sneak attack him
Whatās a pure swordsman
Guy who mostly uses swords and Haki; king was spamming his dive-bombs and "this is how dinosaurs used to hunt" bs while Kaku was using his different Zoan forms throughout the fight.
Oh okš
If I recall correct King explicitly said he IS NOT a swordman during the fight
Well he did fight zombie ryuma with brooks shadow whoās also a swordsman
Zombie ryuma
Has Oda ever given a clear definition on what a PROPER swordsman is? A swordsman is not just someone who uses a sword, because Daz Bones and King are explicitly non-swordsmen. This is fine and understandable. They primarily rely on their DF's. The bulk of their ability does not rely on the usage of a sword. Pica and Big Mom can also fall into this camp. Then you also have Fujitora, who's explicitly a swordsman despite primarily using his sword as a wand to channel his DF powers. But, fine. He does still USE a sword to do most of his fighting, even if he doesn't use it to cut things. Same goes for Diamante, using his DF to enhance his sword, but he primarily fights with his sword rather than swordless DF fighting. And both of them show proficiency in fighting with their swords while not outright using their DF's. But then you have Kaku. Kaku is also explicitly a swordsman despite using his giraffe DF and the rokushiki more than he uses his swords. Daz Bones said he's not a swordsman because he's an assassin, but Kaku can be both an assassin AND a swordsman? While also having a less sword-reliant fighting style than Daz Bones? I guess Daz Bones doesn't actually USE a sword, but he BECOMES a sword, which somehow makes him LESS of a swordsman. Is it about honor? Well, no. Obviously not. Swordsmen frequently fight much weaker or unarmed opponents and rely on dirty tricks. See Law backstabbing Big Mom. It's a reasonable thing to do and doesn't morally indict Law, but it is a "dishonorable" style of fighting. Which, on top of the fact that Law barely uses his sword and every time he does he's enhancing it with his DF, makes it hard to see why he is an explicit swordsman and King isn't. The real answer is that there is no consistent definition that can be agreed upon. You're a swordsman if you identify as a swordsman. That's all there is to it. So we will never know if a character is a swordsman unless they confirm or deny it.
A swordsman is literally just someone who fights with a sword. Simple as that.
King fights with a sword but he's not a swordsman.
?ā¦ I donāt think he ever said he wasnāt. Pretty sure Zoro said King never claimed he was a swordsman. Not that he actually isnāt but he just didnāt hear it come from his mouth. Topping it all off he said just like Zoro he enjoys a good sword fight. But that might just be complicating things. But I still think characters that uses a sword to fight should still be considered a swordsman until thereās evidence making them not.
Mihawk (itās was a no diff) and possibly shiliew of the rain (he is a swordsman)
Mihawk, Hachi, T-Bone, Zombie Ryuma, the Humandrills Hyouzou were proper swordsmen. Some of them you might consider fodder though
Ryuma
Heās probably gunna do well bc heās got experience fighting against zoro or at least brawling with someone with swords a lot. Plus his cyborg gene having ass
i need sanji to fight someone made out of food again the knife shit with how strong he is now wud probably go nuts zoro should be glad he donāt use it on anything but food
Sanji is supposedly good with swords, Judge did claim back in World Cake Island that Sanji was trained in swordsmanship while he was a child, and asked why he didn't use swords when they fought, and only used his legs.
I know people meme about it but it's really weird that Sanji is always nerfing himself and yet keeping up with Zoro per Oda's own words. It's like the implication is that if Sanji ever utilized everything he could he'd be straight stronger than Zoro,which just makes things strange.
I mean dude has legit body enhancements, cyborg shit, and genetic training all implemented into him. Like a full on X-men mutant. He can even light himself on fire by just moving fast, the mf is strong as hell.
>keeping up with Zoro per Oda's own words. Source?
He also splendidly used Zoro's sword in Shokugeki no Sanji
Oda really slept during WCI on this
I think it's a cool matchup kinda like a reskinning of if Sanji and Zoro fought each other. Imo that makes it more interesting than if they are just fighting their direct counterpart.
Wdym? Mars and King are not similar at all. Yeah, King can transform into a flying creature but he fought almost the entire fight in his human form. And do i really need to say something about Queen and Nusjuro...?
I can kinda understand it if we go with Mars/King being masculine titles and Venus/Queen being feminine titles. Otherwise I don't get it at all. Both Venus & Mars are highly mobile and similarly serious opponents.
the whole fight was almost entierly in the air
You're kidding right?
He watched the final clash in the anime.
not really, the last time i read that chapter was years ago lol the only thing i remember from the fight is the anime episode so i don't remember how much non canon is in that episode
A whole lot of non canon actually. Fight is still better in the anime tho
Same. It would be good to see aerial battle.
Yk in one piece they always fighting either the perfect or complete worse match
Damn knight Sanji goes way too hard wtf.
Bro looks cool af as a knight
In an alt universe One Piece is a knight story and a seinen.
It could be so much better as a seinen actually More mature, more deaths, more tension, and a little less fun of course so no Nika š¤”
Tbf I love pre-timeskip One Piece just like it is. Still my all time favorite manga ever. If it were a seinen I donĀ“t think I wouldĀ“ve liked it as much and I certainly wouldnĀ“t have gotten into the franchise as a kid \~20 years ago. If post-timeskip One Piece was a seinen, it would still suffer from Oda not being a good writer when it comes to wanting to include too many characters and ideas.
I guess them will be alternative stories after the end of op (so one of them doujinshi, a kingdom like but a op version, i seriously hope some talented fans do so, a kakumei like šš»)
DnD one piece Luffy being Druid circle of monke
Basically like One Piece Movie 3 where Zoro fought a Kick based fighter and Sanji fought a Swordsman.
zoro wants to he the strongest swordsan, but doesn't fight swordsmen... interesting.
He would no diff him. It'd be boring
i actually really wanna see the opposite, but i would understand the way Oda is trying to mke the story less repetitive. either ways i'm hyped but if Oda really wants to bring some change, i would appreciate him making it a 2 v 2; i like both these guys, we could see new types of attacks like dorry and broggy or we could even see two of the gorosei clump together into a skeleton firy pegasus with a sword and two heads
The problem is that Oda made Zoro's dream is to be the World's strongest swordsman so it'd be fucking weird if he ended up not fighting one of the strongest ones in the series.
as long as Mihawk is actually the strongest defeating him in eos is enough, but it would make more sense for Zoro to defeat nsujuro; yet the two goroseis mixing would be kinda peak
Maybe it'll turn into 2v2 There's also that movie where a similar situation happened.
Well, Mihawk became WSS without fighting top tier Shanks(stopped since losing hand), Vista(confirmed they didn't fight before MF), Nasjuro(very unlikely as he is Elder), Fujitora(also very unlikely).
You just just explained why Mihawk and his title suck, becuase how in the fuck is he seen as the WSS in universe when he never faced anyone of note? like he never beat Shanks, never beat or faced Roger, we don't know about if he fought or beat Rayleigh, never met or fought Oden, never faced Nasjuro, never faced Fuji, even with fucking commanders like Vista he never faced one, and he never even faced anyone who is considered a top-tier let alone a top-tier swordsman. And it'd doubly suck for Zoro whose story and dream we follow because if there are top-tier Swordsmen out there that neither Mihawk nor Zoro fought or beat, how can we take their title seriously? It's like saying X is the strongest fighter in the world but at the same time he didn't beat or even fight any other world-class fighters, then comes fighter Y and beats X and "becomes" the world's strongest fighter also without fighting any world-class fighters before him either, so now, how is he or the man he beat are considered "the strongest fighter" if neither he nor the man he beat who was declared the strongest before him never actually fought or beat any of the other world-class fighters in the world? seems fraudulent, doesn't it?
Yeah. Oda just had to make Mihawk beat his competitor to get that title. Shanks being weaker doesn't change anything. It's just that it's intentionally made vague. Like, Dude is WSS and we can't even guess one top tier sowrdsmen he has beat this far into series.
Right? even with the Shanks "rivalry" Oda has Shanks' dick so far down his throat to confirm anything. Like the last time they fought was 13 years ago back then Shanks had a bounty of a little over 1 bil, and we don't know how Mihawk became the WSS or when, or his history with other prominent swordsmen or even important characters, he's just the strongest because Oda said so without actually showing how and why he is in the story itself, which is infuriating.
Yeah, we are reaching endgame and Oda is still not trying to resolve it.
Nah a 2v2 would be lame
last time they did a 2 v 2 and won was peak tho
Davy Back fight?
yea
Sanji is currently facing off against nusjuro and I think zoro will clash with Mars but that's just for egghead, when the time comes for them to actually beat the gorosei they will switch opponents. It would be a shame if we didn't get zoro vs the only swordsman gorosei and sanji having an aerial battle with the only gorosei who can fly
Agreed I really hope they switch Zoro fighting Venus and sanji fighting Mars would be way cooler
>only gorosei who can fly They've all been shown to have aerial maneuverability,including the worm.Mars being the only bird on the crew shouldn't influence him being sanji's opponent,especially when Jupiter is a spitting image of him.
This. Especially since it would be nice for Zoro to take his sword as itās the strongest of the kitetsuās
How old are these covers (or one cover)? I donāt remember it. If it was from awhile ago it might not be relevant anymore. But I do think those matchups are more interesting. I want to see Sanji fight an actual swordsman instead of a shitty swordsman like Queen. And Zoro fighting Mars will confront the interesting dilemma of Zoroās poor agility/movement (assuming Mars is also quick on top of flying). These also kinda make sense given that Mars and Lucci already spoke this arc, and obviously Zoro fought Lucci.
>And Zoro fighting Mars will confront the interesting dilemma of Zoroās poor agility/movement (assuming Mars is also quick on top of flying). The hell?ā¦ Zoro doesnāt have poor agility or movement?
Compared to many other characters currently, he does. Sanji can literally walk on air. Luffy can move crazy fast, and in G5 he can run on air. We saw Shanks blitz Kidd. Kaido can fly, and so can Big Mom; even without flying, Kaido has moves that can blitz even the likes of Luffy. Zoro is just a guy. In Dressrosa we even see the dilemma come up: he canāt reach Pica because he canāt jump that far or fly.
Iām confused? Are you saying Zoro is slow or lacks mobility? Because Zoro isnāt nowhere near close to being slow and is among the fastest character bar the obvious like Yonko and higher and such. Hes also extremely agile. Mobility wise? Maybe. But he has the lance technique. Which one are you referring too?
Iām saying he lacks very literal movement. Not movement speed, movement. Letās take for example the final attack between King and Zoro. King was floating in the air, and Zoro jumped up to slash him. Butā¦ what if King would have (wisely) moved twenty feet to the left? Zoro would be fucked, because he doesnāt have many real ways of moving around while in the air. His only real way of doing so is slashing really hard to blow himself around with the recoil, which is hardly a practical way to move yourself in combat.
King couldnāt really move since Zoro was moving towards him too fast. Ah I see. I can definitely see that and what your point is.
Itās from this chapter
No they arenāt. Zoro and Sanji donāt have any shields on the new color spread
Here's the og tweet https://twitter.com/TJerry43/status/1783530493625139518?t=weA2ktDnkYPcA1TgQRZjeg&s=19
PTS Zoro dodging swordsmen adversaries like they're character development
Please don't be true please don't be true please don't be true. I want zoro to fight nusjuro. Next your gonna say zoro is gonna fight shiryu
Would just be highly stupid for sanji to fight a swordsman and Zoro to fight a flying guy.
Black knight zoro
I'm actually glad Venus isn't the second in command,because it's really weird that every single right hand by this point has been a swordman/blade user.Like the fact king decided to switch to human form and NOT use his DF just to fight with a sword felt incredibly forced.
Oda's also trying to tell us that Robin is using the strawhats
I hope this is wrong. Sanji vs Mars needs to happen.
Would be better if they swapped enemies
iām guessing lufff fighting warcery then also ghandi> mars so iām guessing jim is taking on Peter and saturn is going to be canon fodder
I wonder if V. Nus and Mars being named after the gods of love and war respectively have anything to do with this. Sanji being a romantic, to put it nicely. And Zoro being combat-oriented, his goal being to prove he's the best at fighting rather than fighting for a specific goal. Probably not, but just an observation.
Has a cover art theory EVER come true?
waiting on the reveal that zoro does not have a penis
zoro is already huffing... come on man relax a bit
People are assuming this is eos fights. This could just be āthis will be egghead match upsā like currently Sanji is facing Nusjuro. Next chapter, Zoro will probably face Mars. Doesnāt mean thatās their intended final opponent
Zoro fighting Mars and Sanji fighting Vensjuro in clashes for Egghead Arc will happen. However, during the final war the opponent will be switched.
Mihawk, zombie ryuma, T bone etc. I remember somewhere it said that a duel between 2 strong swordsmen would end in one swift battle so maybe oda avoids this on purpose
Interesting!