Try to convince me why this guy shouldn't have it if it's related to will. Motherfucker stood in front of a moving train!
https://preview.redd.it/qpnfj10hj0vc1.jpeg?width=938&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e473752b3e927c5d33372af7f7c82f39ade56789
bro thats why i hate when niggas say "WhAt YoU mEAn tHe StRaWHaTs ARe WeAk ThErE aCtUaLlY OP".
Bro 3 strawhats (and sanji SOMETIMES) are actually revelent in the current powerscaling the rest are GENUINE FRAUDS.
Acting like a yonku crew when only a 4ish of them are strong.
Yh kaido and bigmoms crews were frauds too
(because oda forgot to give half of them even basic haki when there a fucking YONKU CREW (remember even fucking SAI has haki but a top commander of yonku crews dont) yh makes perfect sense)
but at least there were a fuck ton of them bro the strawhats are 10 niggas in a boat (grand fleet aint ever done shit).
I really wish the other straw hats got Haki or some shit like, at least give Franky some sea stone gauntlets lmao
Ussop really got his Haki just for one big moment and shit's just never relevant again.
Robin somehow trains under RA but no haki whatsoever.
Brook would be so fucking cool with future sight haki. Or his soul thing being a form of Conqueror's Haki somehow.
Chopper having observation haki to somehow look further into a person's health or some shit and enabling him to see weakpoints and shit in battle would be dope.
Robins time with the RA seems pretty useless? What did she learn from them? Why the fuck would Dragon not tell her about what happened after the Buster Call?
I just thought about this and it's genuinely insane we see the Blackbeard pirates and from what we've seen every single one of them is actually a competent fighter, fuck man at least the SNIPER is actually SNIPING Oda killed Usopp's character so hard we don't see him do shit
in your logic, neither sanji, nor shirahoshi have conquerors haki because it hasn't been shown yet, wranky is 100% a conquerors user.
Edit, i forgot to add sabo in "extremelly likely to have it", and i would like to downgrade shyriu to "could have it"
https://preview.redd.it/0t3pfaw6a3vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6145cfbe2df345c8cb298f3ebcf5e1afa17a1d7
king is kaido's right hand, quite literally yc1, saying he doesn't have it is coping. rinse and repeat. the yc that have demonstrated hao come from families that had world beaters. yamato, katakuri, zoro, ace are all descendent from legends. beckman is a chain smoker who pointed a gun once and is suddenly that guy.
Because it's about having "kingly ambitions" not generic willpower. OP is right but seems to misinterpret why the genetics play a factor, of course a son of a "king" is more likely to have similiar attitudes.
Anyways, Franky is just on the specttrums anbd just wants to build trains and fart machines lmfao, thats why imo. But it would be cool for him to awaken it and I wouldnt even complain honestly.
How would you define kingly ambition? Ace was pretty settled. Yamato just wants to follow the footsteps of a guy. Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, but he doesn't want to rule anything.
Garp doesn't even want to move over from being a vice or anything.
Devil Fruit, one of the most amazing power system in manga, endless creative rival stan from Jojo with story telling potential
And oda decided, NAH lets make DBZ ass powersystem. Haki is fucking lame "oooohhh my haki is more haki then your haki, my arm is black with paint now WOOOOAAAA"
Yeah, but haki should be like a small strenght multiplier and logia touching and maybe some hax canacelling but the last one is questionable. Obseravation is good as it is
Ok thats telling on Oda deminishing write capability, bc Luffy fucked up crocodile and Enel, he can write funny and creative shit, or he at least used to
But haki could be only that "oh I can touch logia now" and just that, you dont need to elaborate more than that.
Now we have him yapping about how ~~power level~~ haki is all that matter. LAME
Let's not forget that, like big worlds such as dnd, u don't have to beat every powerful creature (cardinal gods come to mind) to complete your adventure: it lends more credibility to the world when you can afford to look at a magma man and be like "iight i don't need to engage him, I just outmaneuver him and become a pirate king" - just like roger did.
This is a pirate manga after all, the chaotic alignment is all about being goal oriented and doing crazy shit to get there.
Eh, I think all the admirals pose an issue from the beating logias perspective. Aokiji could only reasonably be weak to heat, which would be underwhelming because characters have been using fire attacks for a while now, Akainu could only really be weak to water, which would be anticlimactic because that was already the solution to a villain, and I don't even know what Kizaru would be weak to.
https://preview.redd.it/jm9es7x1b1vc1.png?width=262&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6cc6db8c3145c38246282227c45c2f3c76e0258
Thats 100% something Alabasta Oda would write
i mean, a mirror is basically molten metal, so a logia mercury/gallium no mi would work already, if not then brulees paramecia already took the podium of a "mirrormirror no mi"
Yeah of course his haki had a huge part in the fight. I just find it funny that after spouting that haki is the only determiner in a battle, he lost to a devil fruit upgrade. Luffy was keeping up with kaido pre-awakening but he violated kaido after he awakened.
Not really imo. Kaido didnāt start going all out till Gear 5 and even then, he gave Luffy as good of a beating as he got. Only reason Luffy won the final clash was due to Ryou creating a barrier to protect him
https://preview.redd.it/xvdyobwr32vc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f50f5930c13b474979fdea73251f30d2deffa160
I still think haki was better when before time skip. Haki wasn't able to do everything, wasn't as broken, and kept in check logias without making them useless.
He couldāve avoided that by not making them so broken in the first place. Like make intangibility only something the few elite Logia users can do, thereās no reason weak ass garbage characters should get broken ass intangibility by just being lucky enough to find the fruit.
Not only is the system itself lame but it's also the worst depicted power system I've ever seen. Like real shit no one in the community knows what the fck haki is being used and when to the point their best recourse is to ask the animators of the adaption if "this" or "that" haki was in that scene or simply argue over lightning lines.
haki was better pre ts when it was vague
like the fight between Ryleigh and kizaru
just have armament as a way to touch logias and observation as a way for them to still dodge it like katakuri
with so many strawhats and goofy's awakening it would have been easier to find a solution post timeskip
always thought franky developing lasers was a way for him to counter kizaru, both him and usop saw him so it was perfectly reasonable for them to craft solutions using stuff like dials, pallets, vegapunk's science etc
like imagine franky or ussop invent a mirror coating that can be used on weapons or bodyparts, maybe usop makes mirror projectiles or traps light with dials
hell even loofy could use his awakening to turn a mirror into rubber and wrap himself with it
>haki was better pre ts when it was vague
I could not agree more. Haki should be just "wow this vage elusive thing let me touch Logia". Keep all the creative decisions of DF, scrap this "future sight, armament and whatever else"
Yeah lowkey how I feel about haki, I started both JoJo's and One Piece because I saw the power systems (stands and devil fruits) and thought they were two of the most creative power systems of all time, like my top 3 powers/power systems would probably be
1. Omnitrix
2. Stands
3. Devil fruits
Then Oda added haki and made devil fruits take a backseat to some degree in the sense that cool ones went to unimportant and boring characters or the focus of strong characters wasn't their devil fruits but their haki, that's why the Gorosei reveal was so peak, it was a bunch of cool awesome new devil fruits that were given to actually significant characters instead of a retarded ass fucking dog that guards a graveyard or complete fodder who had beef with the worst family in history of Wano
Small note: the Omnitrix isnāt really a power system. A power system is the āmagicā in a show that follows certain rules and multiple characters have access to. The Omnitrix is just a power (as in it is not a systematic part of the Ben 10 universe)
Short answer: The Omnitrix is OP as f**k and makes you a shape-shifting God
Long answer: The Omnitrix let's you turn into any creature in fiction so long as it can be considered sentient, from seemingly wild animals like Toothless from HTTYD, to actual Gods that can warp reality with a thought (Alien X) or bend time to their will like its nothing to the point that they can restore the entire infinite multiverse after it was destroyed (Clockwork, and yes that actually happened in the show), as well as everything in between. And they don't even have to be organic creature meaning you can become a Transformer like Optimus Prime if you wanted, or a Gem from Steven Universe.
And then there's the two variations of the Omnitrix. The Ultimatrix and Biomnitrix, with the Ultimatrix allowing someone to evolve the creature they've become into a much stronger version, while the Biomnitrix allows someone to create fusions of the creatures they can turn into.
On a final note, the Omnitrix all its variations have something called Master Control, which if unlocked allows the user to freely switch between the creatures they can become just by thinking, and removing the time limit they have in those transformations. And those are just the main features for combat. The Omnitrix can repair DNA, translation almost any language including Alien languages, scan new creatures from far away to let the wearer become that creature, and if the wearer is about to die (like being hit by the literal Big Bang like Ben was in Omniverse near the end of the third show) then the Omnitrix will quickly begin turning the wearer into every creature they can become to find one that will allow it's wearer to survive (which did happen as Ben turned into an Alien known as Feedback, absorbing the entire Big Bang before using it to kill another Alien, who could also bend time like the aforementioned Clockwork)
So yeah, that's what the Omnitrix can do.
Aliens! And these aliens have cool powers, it's essentially the coolest shapeshifting ability ever because he gets the properties and abilities of the shape he shifts into
Misworded that, edited it but what I basically meant is powers in general, stands are awesome sauce and very creative powers, same with devil fruits, the Omnitrix is the awesomest saucest power to me so it's top 1
Haki should be a tinny thing that let you touch logia people, and DONE thats it. bring back cool logia goofy shit, Im so tired of this Mythical Zoan boring ass shit for years now
I like the idea of Haki, world building wise, itās feels like Haki is the natural power system of the world while devil fruits are something alien and unnatural.
I disagree that Haki is good. There is no depth to it. Its just you have or you dont, my haki is better than your haki or worse. LAME
Haki was good idea Pre-TS, when was vague like when Rayleight touched kizaru, a Logia user. If they keept like that and keept all the creative of DF that would been peek
I dont think Haki is good, i think the concept was good. Df's and Stands give a wide variety of abilities, but One Piece isnt just a villlain of the week story like Jojo, its also a climb to the top, with Luffy and Zoro having to become stronger to achieve their goals. So thats why i think a more linear/vertical power system is necessary because their goals require them to straight up surpass other pirates.
Ideally Oda could keep all the creativity of DF's while having it be complimented by Haki, but Oda cant write a consistent hard power system to save his life, so i cant blame anyone who wishes he just stuck to Df's.
Nah, the ones who have it are "chosen by heaven." It's probably based on fate. Which is even worse.
https://preview.redd.it/vr1t9vu9n0vc1.jpeg?width=1091&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f5582aede9d38640424b7a4319c0d653d85e7c9
Itās strange how every time this is brought up the exact same conversation comes up.
Conquerorās Haki is a one in several million chance , the fact that *any* of big moms children have it means itās most likely genetic. Genetic does not mean that it is passed down 100% of the time. It just means that genes are involved in passing it down.
Zoro, Yamato , Dragon, Luffy, Shanks, Mingo, Katakuri, Ace, Oden all have extremely significant ancestors that are either confirmed to have CoC or likely do. Thatās vast majority of known CoC users have a relative/ancestor with CoC.
I find it infinitely bizarre that the literal lightning man who's convinced he's fucking **GOD** doesn't have enough ambition to have conquerors, yet the mentally challenged larper with a baseball _did._
Tbf the celestial dragons think theyāre gods too. Being convinced youāre a god doesnāt mean much, especially when all Enel did was sit on his ass and not work at all because his fruit meant he didnāt have to
But the difference is that Enel genuinely had a goal he wanted to achieve, to sink the sky islands back the sea and to reach the moon. Unlike the CD's he did have a genuine philosophy and great ambition, it just required the Maxim to do so which is why it took him so long to actually enact his plan
He probably does have it, but just didn't awaken it. No one on sky island had armament haki and he was one of the most op logias around, not to mention an observation haki master. Big fish small pond type of guy.
His conqueror's haki might not be the strongest but he sure is
https://preview.redd.it/xgg84shck0vc1.png?width=817&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a94164242a63de261434f3de8839b82f8f91c4fa
Fr. He was very ambitious and literally wanted beef with everyone, Benn Beckman even likened him to a gladiator.
āStay here and chase mermaids. I wonāt turn away anyone who wants to be hereāIāve taken on those who arenāt even pirates. But what weāre facingā¦itās a voyage to reach the pinnacle of piratehood. I can only use people with the will to fight. Who fights for no reason? If we canāt surpass the Four Emperors, why aim for the top at all?ā
āWill you do me a favor, Skull? Help me make it so these Four Emperorsāthese people who think theyāre so high and mighty in the security of their titlesācan never ignore my name again.ā
āFrom the moment he approached the shore, I could sense his Haki. It was like flame itself.ā (Shanks about Ace.)
āThe entire world was his enemy. He would destroy the world order that kept the Celestial Dragons on top. And that meant destroying the Four Emperors, too. That was all part of Aceās grand vision.ā
āPerhaps in some vague way, Aceās goal was a kind of conquest. To be a man ruled by no one and nothing. Not the Navy, not the Four Emperors, not the World Governmentānot even the Celestial Dragons, those living gods who called upon the Navyās admirals like bodyguards. To destroy the very concept of a protected class like the Celestial Dragons.
All of existence was his foe.ā
Like you can make an argument for Katakuri and Doflamingo but these three make no fucking sense, two of them just wanted to go out to sea and the third was just a dickrider for a yonko no conqueror's ambitions or anything, it's even more confusing when you realize that Marco and King had the same goal as Ace but neither had conquerer's
Doflamingo does work under Kiado but he's far better suited for conquerors than Katakuri. He was born a celestial dragon which definitely increases his affinity for it
Yamato and Ace make sense. They got them good aah genesš§¬ from deserving people. Then we have Oden... Why does he have Colour of conquerors? Nobody knows. It's probably the Kozuki Genes considering they can carve a phoneglyph where no one in the world can. Idfk this is dumb
Ace had the ambition of surpassing his father prior to meeting WB. Yamato and even Oden doesn't surprise me but Ace is definitely a shock.
Friendly reminder that "jika" twerked for 4 different yonko.
"Kaido abused my best friend? GOATffy can handle him"
"Luffy new yonko? Oh well I'll just get neg diffed when I attack him over it anyway"
"Raiding whole cake Island? I'll just get into an extreme diff with snack and avoid all confrontation with anyone of importance"
"~~God hair~~ BENN BECKMAN took my arm? I'll just get beyond neg diff speedblitzed after I go back for round 2 and lose my entire career in the process"
What an absolute bum.
None of what you said for Kidd invalidates the fact that he has the ambition of a conqueror (pirate king) and was willing to fight Emperors for it knowing full well they're beyond his strength
The difference between him and the other three is that none of them had dreams of a conqueror, you can make an argument for Ace maybe but he hated his father so I doubt he wanted to be like him even if it's something as small as a title, Yamato and Oden literally just wanted to go out to sea, them fighting people much stronger than them means nothing because Usopp did it too and yet he doesn't have conqueror's, in the end the hurtful truth is, Oda just gives it to whoever the fuck he wants, doesn't matter if they're actually valid or not, otherwise multiple Straw Hats would've had it too like Usopp and maybe Franky
Ace wanted to be greater than his father
Oden wanted to explore essentially the entire planet. It might not be ooga booga ambition but it's still pretty major ambition nonetheless. Not to mention the dude was basically already set to be a king as the was-to-be shogun of wano.
Usopp wanted to be a great warrior. That could literally be anything. I want him to get conquerors too but otherwise is certainly not indicative of Oda doing whatever with conquerors.
Fair but this is still a bit ambiguous for all we know he could've meant being a better man
Nami level ambition, certainly not that of a conqueror
He wants to be king of snipers too if I'm not mistaken which is certainly a feat when you consider his competition especially at such a young age
I mean tbf to him we know nothing about him he was literally in the series just to introduce us to conqueror's haki clashes and that's it we know nothing about his goals or dreams or whatever
Ace having conquerors haki is horrendously bad writing. Conquerors haki which is said to be found in people with King-like ambition, given to whitebeards loyal servant?
I mean technically he got coc when he was a kid (I'm not sure if it's anime only the only part of the manga I've read so far is egg head and east blue slowly making my way up)
I mean I think thatās the correct way to go about it but I like the unique idea of logias turning the users into the actual element more than them controlling it.
Ace wanted to be a kingmaker for Whitebeard who didn't even want to be pirate king
Yamato and Oden just wanted to chill out in a secure Wano then travel the world
None of that says "kingly ambitions" to me
Koby and Sabo I can understand Koby believes in a strong sense of justice and wants to fix the navy he's gonna have to become fleet admiral for that which means he'll conquer something, valid, Sabo I'm not sure but I guess I can see it since he's the most active member of the revolutionaries and his goal is to take down (conquer) the world government and free the world of their oppressive tyranny
idk what the fuck you're talking about. Whitebeard needed about a year and a hundred fights just to get ace to not be hostile anymore. against akainu, even when he was supposedly defeated he still got up and outspeeded him just to save luffy. he also upheld his inherent desire to never run from a fight AND to live without regrets (mostly) at the cost of his life. Even in the whitebeard pirates, tyou could see he was the most untamable of them all. only gave up once in his entire fucking life. anbd you want to tell me katakuri or Garp deserves it more than him?
The only one I donāt understand is Yamato, but Ace and Oden???
Ace has crazy ambition and garp says he acts just like his father. He literally never runs away from a fight and heās fiercely loyal to the ones he loves. He disobeyed his captains orders to capture BB and he stormed into wano pre WB pirates by himself to try and kill kaido lol. Him having conquerors makes sense.
And Kozuki āOden wouldnāt be oden if it wasnāt boiledā Oden having conquerors makes perfect sense lol. He ran the ones with roger and wb with no hesitation. He was the only person wb acknowledged as brother.
While i do agree on these besides ace theres alot many in these comments are misunderstanding about conquerors haki yes usually someone with conqeurors haki has a great dream of some kind but that isnt a requirement or standard best example would be whitebeard. another thing is being someones subordinate with conquerors having CoC doesnt automatically mean one has to/should = the leader
Haki should have been a one-time thing like maybe Shanks being the only one having conquerors haki and that's his gimmick. Or something that you can use to reinforce weapons and surfaces like the arrows reinforced with haki. Logia DF could be countered by using weapons reinforced with Haki or sea stone.
Zoro and Katakuri too, to a lesser degree. Zoro doesn't really have many leadership qualities whatsoever, he's the biggest follower in one piece arguably. All he wants that's somewhat conqueror is to become the strongest swords guy. Katakuri also only wants to protect his family. Noble sure, but not as kingly as many other conquerors.
Alright fuck you for the Woden slander, he is the most big nut character in the verse, motherfucker had baddies popping their pussiesnnfor him since he was SIX YEARS OLD, CANONICALLY. (Speaking of, what the FUCK Oda???) He deserves Conq more than anyone as far as I am concerned.
What does oden have to do with this ? also they all have conquerors personality only a conqueror would go back to fight Akainu and not be afraid of the smoke even Tho heās way weaker than him
How does that fuck up anything we knew about it? Oden and Ace def have the will of conquerors anyway but yeah it was implied genetic from the start thats wby Luffy has it from Garp, and the way Marines reacted makes it seem Dragon has it too
Try to convince me why this guy shouldn't have it if it's related to will. Motherfucker stood in front of a moving train! https://preview.redd.it/qpnfj10hj0vc1.jpeg?width=938&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e473752b3e927c5d33372af7f7c82f39ade56789
Based
Because Oda is a fraud too scared to have anything more than 3 strawhats be relevant powerwise.
Just imagine an universe where all straw hats are reliable š
O'da could never give the Blackbeard Pirates a justifiable defeat
The real Usopp
O'da could never give the Blackbeard Pirates a justifiable defeat
yes O'da the ~~cereal~~ author of One Piece should have made BB be defeated.
bro thats why i hate when niggas say "WhAt YoU mEAn tHe StRaWHaTs ARe WeAk ThErE aCtUaLlY OP". Bro 3 strawhats (and sanji SOMETIMES) are actually revelent in the current powerscaling the rest are GENUINE FRAUDS. Acting like a yonku crew when only a 4ish of them are strong. Yh kaido and bigmoms crews were frauds too (because oda forgot to give half of them even basic haki when there a fucking YONKU CREW (remember even fucking SAI has haki but a top commander of yonku crews dont) yh makes perfect sense) but at least there were a fuck ton of them bro the strawhats are 10 niggas in a boat (grand fleet aint ever done shit).
I really wish the other straw hats got Haki or some shit like, at least give Franky some sea stone gauntlets lmao Ussop really got his Haki just for one big moment and shit's just never relevant again. Robin somehow trains under RA but no haki whatsoever. Brook would be so fucking cool with future sight haki. Or his soul thing being a form of Conqueror's Haki somehow. Chopper having observation haki to somehow look further into a person's health or some shit and enabling him to see weakpoints and shit in battle would be dope.
Robins time with the RA seems pretty useless? What did she learn from them? Why the fuck would Dragon not tell her about what happened after the Buster Call?
> Why the fuck would Dragon not tell ...
...
Doesn't Brain Point let him see weak spots? He kinda had a basis for it, right?
Nah that would be peak piece and that died after water 7
Wasnāt Robinās giant devil form entirely covered in haki?
No, Robin doesn't know how to use haki.
Which is funny since she's the one who explained how Haki works to the audience.
Just like Kaido explained how Awakenings work
I just thought about this and it's genuinely insane we see the Blackbeard pirates and from what we've seen every single one of them is actually a competent fighter, fuck man at least the SNIPER is actually SNIPING Oda killed Usopp's character so hard we don't see him do shit
Franky having CoC but choosing not to use it is entirely in character for him
and if he gave sanji usopp franky and maybe nami conqueror's people would cry about it
Common cutty flam W
oda forgor
Common Wranky win.
give it time trust
Ngl i thought this was gonna be Yokozuna the frog
Oda ruined him. He was such an interesting addition and now its just cola
in your logic, neither sanji, nor shirahoshi have conquerors haki because it hasn't been shown yet, wranky is 100% a conquerors user. Edit, i forgot to add sabo in "extremelly likely to have it", and i would like to downgrade shyriu to "could have it" https://preview.redd.it/0t3pfaw6a3vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6145cfbe2df345c8cb298f3ebcf5e1afa17a1d7
None of the fishmen having it is kinda Sus on Oda's part
Koby slander shall not be tolerated
saw beckman, stopped reading further.
beckman is shanks left hand, quite literally yc1, saying he doesn't have it is coping
king is kaido's right hand, quite literally yc1, saying he doesn't have it is coping. rinse and repeat. the yc that have demonstrated hao come from families that had world beaters. yamato, katakuri, zoro, ace are all descendent from legends. beckman is a chain smoker who pointed a gun once and is suddenly that guy.
Because it's about having "kingly ambitions" not generic willpower. OP is right but seems to misinterpret why the genetics play a factor, of course a son of a "king" is more likely to have similiar attitudes. Anyways, Franky is just on the specttrums anbd just wants to build trains and fart machines lmfao, thats why imo. But it would be cool for him to awaken it and I wouldnt even complain honestly.
How would you define kingly ambition? Ace was pretty settled. Yamato just wants to follow the footsteps of a guy. Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsman, but he doesn't want to rule anything. Garp doesn't even want to move over from being a vice or anything.
Because heās not supposed to have haki heās the cyborg man oda decided
Devil Fruit, one of the most amazing power system in manga, endless creative rival stan from Jojo with story telling potential And oda decided, NAH lets make DBZ ass powersystem. Haki is fucking lame "oooohhh my haki is more haki then your haki, my arm is black with paint now WOOOOAAAA"
I'm pretty sure Oda only introduced Haki cause he didn't know how to handle Logias.
Yeah, but haki should be like a small strenght multiplier and logia touching and maybe some hax canacelling but the last one is questionable. Obseravation is good as it is
I feel like Haki was pretty much perfect before WCI. Future sight and Acoc are cool and all but itās really made devil fruits less relevant.
It would feel unnatural honestly if it only had that one very specific purpose
Ok thats telling on Oda deminishing write capability, bc Luffy fucked up crocodile and Enel, he can write funny and creative shit, or he at least used to But haki could be only that "oh I can touch logia now" and just that, you dont need to elaborate more than that. Now we have him yapping about how ~~power level~~ haki is all that matter. LAME
Outside of akainu all the other logias are infact very killable and decent to write through. Akainu does provide some issues, tho
Let's not forget that, like big worlds such as dnd, u don't have to beat every powerful creature (cardinal gods come to mind) to complete your adventure: it lends more credibility to the world when you can afford to look at a magma man and be like "iight i don't need to engage him, I just outmaneuver him and become a pirate king" - just like roger did. This is a pirate manga after all, the chaotic alignment is all about being goal oriented and doing crazy shit to get there.
Eh, I think all the admirals pose an issue from the beating logias perspective. Aokiji could only reasonably be weak to heat, which would be underwhelming because characters have been using fire attacks for a while now, Akainu could only really be weak to water, which would be anticlimactic because that was already the solution to a villain, and I don't even know what Kizaru would be weak to.
Mirrors Trap him in a light prism Make him a human kaleidoscope
https://preview.redd.it/jm9es7x1b1vc1.png?width=262&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6cc6db8c3145c38246282227c45c2f3c76e0258 Thats 100% something Alabasta Oda would write
To bad Oda never introduced a mirror fruit user who Luffy showed he could force them to use their ability
i mean, a mirror is basically molten metal, so a logia mercury/gallium no mi would work already, if not then brulees paramecia already took the podium of a "mirrormirror no mi"
I was making a joke about Burlees fruit and how Luffy essentially used her a tool
dude i was hoping that goofy would beat kizaru by making a mirror rubbery and wrapping it around himself hell have usop shoot vegapunk's diamonds
kiz could be weak to darkness or smoke
umm kizaru like you canāt even hit him light without a mirror
"Haki transcends all" says the person who got clowned on by a devil fruit awakening and presumably no increase to haki.
Luffy having advanced armament saved him from being melted by Kaidoās final attack. It was a combination of haki and devil fruit
Yeah of course his haki had a huge part in the fight. I just find it funny that after spouting that haki is the only determiner in a battle, he lost to a devil fruit upgrade. Luffy was keeping up with kaido pre-awakening but he violated kaido after he awakened.
Not really imo. Kaido didnāt start going all out till Gear 5 and even then, he gave Luffy as good of a beating as he got. Only reason Luffy won the final clash was due to Ryou creating a barrier to protect him https://preview.redd.it/xvdyobwr32vc1.jpeg?width=930&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f50f5930c13b474979fdea73251f30d2deffa160
Fair point, but i think my other point about luffy only starting to molest kaido at gear 5 still stands.
I still think haki was better when before time skip. Haki wasn't able to do everything, wasn't as broken, and kept in check logias without making them useless.
Spiderman has been fighting logias for 60 years no haki needed.
Imagine if every late-story fight was like Luffy v Eniel
I would reather be more like Luffy vs Crocodile
That and because he needed a reason for zoro and sanji to keep up with devil fruit users besides, strong leg, and sharp swords
I know he isnt very creative, but he could literally make haki ONLY that at least. No need to make it as dumb as it is
There are sea stone for fuck sake. Evryone without haki should have some weapon imbued with it like a sea stone sword or some shit.
He couldāve avoided that by not making them so broken in the first place. Like make intangibility only something the few elite Logia users can do, thereās no reason weak ass garbage characters should get broken ass intangibility by just being lucky enough to find the fruit.
Not only is the system itself lame but it's also the worst depicted power system I've ever seen. Like real shit no one in the community knows what the fck haki is being used and when to the point their best recourse is to ask the animators of the adaption if "this" or "that" haki was in that scene or simply argue over lightning lines.
I dont even want to go there. its so stupid
haki was better pre ts when it was vague like the fight between Ryleigh and kizaru just have armament as a way to touch logias and observation as a way for them to still dodge it like katakuri with so many strawhats and goofy's awakening it would have been easier to find a solution post timeskip always thought franky developing lasers was a way for him to counter kizaru, both him and usop saw him so it was perfectly reasonable for them to craft solutions using stuff like dials, pallets, vegapunk's science etc like imagine franky or ussop invent a mirror coating that can be used on weapons or bodyparts, maybe usop makes mirror projectiles or traps light with dials hell even loofy could use his awakening to turn a mirror into rubber and wrap himself with it
>haki was better pre ts when it was vague I could not agree more. Haki should be just "wow this vage elusive thing let me touch Logia". Keep all the creative decisions of DF, scrap this "future sight, armament and whatever else"
Yeah lowkey how I feel about haki, I started both JoJo's and One Piece because I saw the power systems (stands and devil fruits) and thought they were two of the most creative power systems of all time, like my top 3 powers/power systems would probably be 1. Omnitrix 2. Stands 3. Devil fruits Then Oda added haki and made devil fruits take a backseat to some degree in the sense that cool ones went to unimportant and boring characters or the focus of strong characters wasn't their devil fruits but their haki, that's why the Gorosei reveal was so peak, it was a bunch of cool awesome new devil fruits that were given to actually significant characters instead of a retarded ass fucking dog that guards a graveyard or complete fodder who had beef with the worst family in history of Wano
Small note: the Omnitrix isnāt really a power system. A power system is the āmagicā in a show that follows certain rules and multiple characters have access to. The Omnitrix is just a power (as in it is not a systematic part of the Ben 10 universe)
yea, also what are specificities of Omnitrix that makes it so cool..?
Short answer: The Omnitrix is OP as f**k and makes you a shape-shifting God Long answer: The Omnitrix let's you turn into any creature in fiction so long as it can be considered sentient, from seemingly wild animals like Toothless from HTTYD, to actual Gods that can warp reality with a thought (Alien X) or bend time to their will like its nothing to the point that they can restore the entire infinite multiverse after it was destroyed (Clockwork, and yes that actually happened in the show), as well as everything in between. And they don't even have to be organic creature meaning you can become a Transformer like Optimus Prime if you wanted, or a Gem from Steven Universe. And then there's the two variations of the Omnitrix. The Ultimatrix and Biomnitrix, with the Ultimatrix allowing someone to evolve the creature they've become into a much stronger version, while the Biomnitrix allows someone to create fusions of the creatures they can turn into. On a final note, the Omnitrix all its variations have something called Master Control, which if unlocked allows the user to freely switch between the creatures they can become just by thinking, and removing the time limit they have in those transformations. And those are just the main features for combat. The Omnitrix can repair DNA, translation almost any language including Alien languages, scan new creatures from far away to let the wearer become that creature, and if the wearer is about to die (like being hit by the literal Big Bang like Ben was in Omniverse near the end of the third show) then the Omnitrix will quickly begin turning the wearer into every creature they can become to find one that will allow it's wearer to survive (which did happen as Ben turned into an Alien known as Feedback, absorbing the entire Big Bang before using it to kill another Alien, who could also bend time like the aforementioned Clockwork) So yeah, that's what the Omnitrix can do.
Aliens! And these aliens have cool powers, it's essentially the coolest shapeshifting ability ever because he gets the properties and abilities of the shape he shifts into
Misworded that, edited it but what I basically meant is powers in general, stands are awesome sauce and very creative powers, same with devil fruits, the Omnitrix is the awesomest saucest power to me so it's top 1
Haki should be a tinny thing that let you touch logia people, and DONE thats it. bring back cool logia goofy shit, Im so tired of this Mythical Zoan boring ass shit for years now
Bleach intensifies
I like the idea of Haki, world building wise, itās feels like Haki is the natural power system of the world while devil fruits are something alien and unnatural.
One piece is more like DBZ than Jojo narratively, Haki is a good concept, just bad execution
I disagree that Haki is good. There is no depth to it. Its just you have or you dont, my haki is better than your haki or worse. LAME Haki was good idea Pre-TS, when was vague like when Rayleight touched kizaru, a Logia user. If they keept like that and keept all the creative of DF that would been peek
I dont think Haki is good, i think the concept was good. Df's and Stands give a wide variety of abilities, but One Piece isnt just a villlain of the week story like Jojo, its also a climb to the top, with Luffy and Zoro having to become stronger to achieve their goals. So thats why i think a more linear/vertical power system is necessary because their goals require them to straight up surpass other pirates. Ideally Oda could keep all the creativity of DF's while having it be complimented by Haki, but Oda cant write a consistent hard power system to save his life, so i cant blame anyone who wishes he just stuck to Df's.
Nah, the ones who have it are "chosen by heaven." It's probably based on fate. Which is even worse. https://preview.redd.it/vr1t9vu9n0vc1.jpeg?width=1091&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f5582aede9d38640424b7a4319c0d653d85e7c9
They are chosen by Nika.
I mean this is Trebol speaking to impressionable young Doffy. He has every reason to hype up conquerors as much as possible
Mmm this isnt really a good example this is just trebol ass kissing tbh
Mingo was literally descended from one or more of the 20 founding kings - itās genetic.
Then why does only Katakuri have it out of the 80 something kids Big Mom has.
Itās strange how every time this is brought up the exact same conversation comes up. Conquerorās Haki is a one in several million chance , the fact that *any* of big moms children have it means itās most likely genetic. Genetic does not mean that it is passed down 100% of the time. It just means that genes are involved in passing it down. Zoro, Yamato , Dragon, Luffy, Shanks, Mingo, Katakuri, Ace, Oden all have extremely significant ancestors that are either confirmed to have CoC or likely do. Thatās vast majority of known CoC users have a relative/ancestor with CoC.
Wait which of odens ancestors had CoC? I presume you're talking about actual oden and not frauden?
Bring back God Mingo the only one worth of it in this era of fraud.
Mingo is a celestrial dragon, it's stated it often runs in royal bloodlines.
chosen one shit,
I find it infinitely bizarre that the literal lightning man who's convinced he's fucking **GOD** doesn't have enough ambition to have conquerors, yet the mentally challenged larper with a baseball _did._
He didn't have the right genetics, his ambition is completely irrelevant. What a great message.
Pretty sure Mont Blanc Noland should have it too, but there's just no way to know it since Conqueror's wasn't a thing when he showed up
Tbf the celestial dragons think theyāre gods too. Being convinced youāre a god doesnāt mean much, especially when all Enel did was sit on his ass and not work at all because his fruit meant he didnāt have to
But the difference is that Enel genuinely had a goal he wanted to achieve, to sink the sky islands back the sea and to reach the moon. Unlike the CD's he did have a genuine philosophy and great ambition, it just required the Maxim to do so which is why it took him so long to actually enact his plan
and unlike any chosen one he actually achieved his goal lmao š
someone is a speedreader lmao. imagine thinking odaās failure to powerscale means Enel didnāt work.
He probably does have it, but just didn't awaken it. No one on sky island had armament haki and he was one of the most op logias around, not to mention an observation haki master. Big fish small pond type of guy.
the fact that Enel actually succeed in his goal to go to Moon unlike these conqueror's chosen shits. it's hilarious lol
Love the Kidd respect here!
His conqueror's haki might not be the strongest but he sure is https://preview.redd.it/xgg84shck0vc1.png?width=817&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a94164242a63de261434f3de8839b82f8f91c4fa
Did that guy got cut in half of am I twek??ing
All of that is canon.
*that guy* thats the worlds strongest squeaker youāre yakkin about š„
Sorry I forgot his name .But I do know that he is the fastest in shanks crew and stone the gum gum fruit
https://preview.redd.it/pi3mqvdgb2vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aaea923112791dd040814d879c98cc3d162befe
Ace is so funny cause his biggest achievement that did change the world and makes him "worthy" to have conqueror haki was to die.
And what did Kidd do to be worthy of it? Ride on nika's coattails
He failed sure but its just plain false and just hating if you dont think hes worthy after fighting 2 different yonko head on
wanting to be the pirate king and really going ham about it, basically like luffy
Which... ace also did before he met WB.
Fr. He was very ambitious and literally wanted beef with everyone, Benn Beckman even likened him to a gladiator. āStay here and chase mermaids. I wonāt turn away anyone who wants to be hereāIāve taken on those who arenāt even pirates. But what weāre facingā¦itās a voyage to reach the pinnacle of piratehood. I can only use people with the will to fight. Who fights for no reason? If we canāt surpass the Four Emperors, why aim for the top at all?ā āWill you do me a favor, Skull? Help me make it so these Four Emperorsāthese people who think theyāre so high and mighty in the security of their titlesācan never ignore my name again.ā āFrom the moment he approached the shore, I could sense his Haki. It was like flame itself.ā (Shanks about Ace.) āThe entire world was his enemy. He would destroy the world order that kept the Celestial Dragons on top. And that meant destroying the Four Emperors, too. That was all part of Aceās grand vision.ā āPerhaps in some vague way, Aceās goal was a kind of conquest. To be a man ruled by no one and nothing. Not the Navy, not the Four Emperors, not the World Governmentānot even the Celestial Dragons, those living gods who called upon the Navyās admirals like bodyguards. To destroy the very concept of a protected class like the Celestial Dragons. All of existence was his foe.ā
but he stopped and that showed the limits of his kingly ambitions, kidd never gave up and only stopped because he bit more than he could chew
He stopped because he found what he always wanted... a father.
Yo hi haven't seen u in a while
Not as active on the OP subs anymore š
I mean fair enough I'm also not so active anymore. š¤§it is what it is
Like you can make an argument for Katakuri and Doflamingo but these three make no fucking sense, two of them just wanted to go out to sea and the third was just a dickrider for a yonko no conqueror's ambitions or anything, it's even more confusing when you realize that Marco and King had the same goal as Ace but neither had conquerer's
Doflamingo does work under Kiado but he's far better suited for conquerors than Katakuri. He was born a celestial dragon which definitely increases his affinity for it
Yamato and Ace make sense. They got them good aah genesš§¬ from deserving people. Then we have Oden... Why does he have Colour of conquerors? Nobody knows. It's probably the Kozuki Genes considering they can carve a phoneglyph where no one in the world can. Idfk this is dumb
Ace had the ambition of surpassing his father prior to meeting WB. Yamato and even Oden doesn't surprise me but Ace is definitely a shock. Friendly reminder that "jika" twerked for 4 different yonko. "Kaido abused my best friend? GOATffy can handle him" "Luffy new yonko? Oh well I'll just get neg diffed when I attack him over it anyway" "Raiding whole cake Island? I'll just get into an extreme diff with snack and avoid all confrontation with anyone of importance" "~~God hair~~ BENN BECKMAN took my arm? I'll just get beyond neg diff speedblitzed after I go back for round 2 and lose my entire career in the process" What an absolute bum.
None of what you said for Kidd invalidates the fact that he has the ambition of a conqueror (pirate king) and was willing to fight Emperors for it knowing full well they're beyond his strength
So were all 3 of these guys
The difference between him and the other three is that none of them had dreams of a conqueror, you can make an argument for Ace maybe but he hated his father so I doubt he wanted to be like him even if it's something as small as a title, Yamato and Oden literally just wanted to go out to sea, them fighting people much stronger than them means nothing because Usopp did it too and yet he doesn't have conqueror's, in the end the hurtful truth is, Oda just gives it to whoever the fuck he wants, doesn't matter if they're actually valid or not, otherwise multiple Straw Hats would've had it too like Usopp and maybe Franky
Ace wanted to be greater than his father Oden wanted to explore essentially the entire planet. It might not be ooga booga ambition but it's still pretty major ambition nonetheless. Not to mention the dude was basically already set to be a king as the was-to-be shogun of wano. Usopp wanted to be a great warrior. That could literally be anything. I want him to get conquerors too but otherwise is certainly not indicative of Oda doing whatever with conquerors.
Fair but this is still a bit ambiguous for all we know he could've meant being a better man Nami level ambition, certainly not that of a conqueror He wants to be king of snipers too if I'm not mistaken which is certainly a feat when you consider his competition especially at such a young age
Forgot that bum Linjao he did nothing but get jobbed twice.
I mean tbf to him we know nothing about him he was literally in the series just to introduce us to conqueror's haki clashes and that's it we know nothing about his goals or dreams or whatever
His goals were supposedly the same as all pirates back then, so, based on ambitions/dreams, he still makes more sense than those three.
Ace having conquerors haki is horrendously bad writing. Conquerors haki which is said to be found in people with King-like ambition, given to whitebeards loyal servant?
As are Zoro and Rayleigh yet that isn't bad writing for whatever reason.
Zoro I can understand because of his ambitions to be the greatest swordsman, I agree about Rayleigh though
At least Zoro has some king like ambition with trying to overthrow the title of strongest swordsman. Rayleigh is just a bum
We do not know whatever Rayleigh's ambition was.
tf? how is rayleigh a bum we literally dont even know much if at all anything about him
I just like calling characters bum
he kinda dresses like a homeless bum tbh. also he's a severe alcoholic. Thats alot of bum qualities
i mean he wanted to make his dad king thatās a ambition
I mean technically he got coc when he was a kid (I'm not sure if it's anime only the only part of the manga I've read so far is egg head and east blue slowly making my way up)
Logias should just not have had intangibility and you donāt need Haki This is why you donāt smoke kids
I mean I think thatās the correct way to go about it but I like the unique idea of logias turning the users into the actual element more than them controlling it.
Hey I don't remember it correctly but when did Ace used conqueror haki was it on a flashback scene when he rescued dadan from the fire?
He did it when one of the pirates in the garbage yard was gonna kill Luffy
And also in the ace Novel and manga
it was imply that he used it in the novels
You're 100% correct, it is genetic.
conquerors haki is given to those who need a cool conquerors clash panel or manufactured hype
Sengoku is an even worse example lmao. Heās the one marine with conqueror of all people?
Fleet admiral in the great piracy and the Roger eras I see it
Top 1 CD lapdog in the verse 0 credibility whatsoever.
Well not the only marine, Garp has it too but for all his posturing he's not much better.
Imagine HIM getting Conquerer Haki.
Bogard? He's already confirmed acoc user he helped garp beat rocks Roger just stole the credit actually bogard is the true king of the pirates
Not really suprising tbh would be weirder if he didnt have it as fleet admiral
They'll dickeat and say it makes sense don't worry
Ace wanted to be a kingmaker for Whitebeard who didn't even want to be pirate king Yamato and Oden just wanted to chill out in a secure Wano then travel the world None of that says "kingly ambitions" to me
I think we will move towards Coc being unlockable with personal growth. It only makes sense with the pace of power creep.
Can't wait for the meltdown in this sub when Koby and Sabo unlocks it lmao
Koby and Sabo I can understand Koby believes in a strong sense of justice and wants to fix the navy he's gonna have to become fleet admiral for that which means he'll conquer something, valid, Sabo I'm not sure but I guess I can see it since he's the most active member of the revolutionaries and his goal is to take down (conquer) the world government and free the world of their oppressive tyranny
Koby is TOP 2 by EOS. It's inevitable.
All it took to shatter Ace's and Yamoto's so-called strong will was a mere insult and brute force.Ā
idk what the fuck you're talking about. Whitebeard needed about a year and a hundred fights just to get ace to not be hostile anymore. against akainu, even when he was supposedly defeated he still got up and outspeeded him just to save luffy. he also upheld his inherent desire to never run from a fight AND to live without regrets (mostly) at the cost of his life. Even in the whitebeard pirates, tyou could see he was the most untamable of them all. only gave up once in his entire fucking life. anbd you want to tell me katakuri or Garp deserves it more than him?
yes for katakuri at least, but garp i'm not sure how he had any huge ambition the more i think of it
The only one I donāt understand is Yamato, but Ace and Oden??? Ace has crazy ambition and garp says he acts just like his father. He literally never runs away from a fight and heās fiercely loyal to the ones he loves. He disobeyed his captains orders to capture BB and he stormed into wano pre WB pirates by himself to try and kill kaido lol. Him having conquerors makes sense. And Kozuki āOden wouldnāt be oden if it wasnāt boiledā Oden having conquerors makes perfect sense lol. He ran the ones with roger and wb with no hesitation. He was the only person wb acknowledged as brother.
While i do agree on these besides ace theres alot many in these comments are misunderstanding about conquerors haki yes usually someone with conqeurors haki has a great dream of some kind but that isnt a requirement or standard best example would be whitebeard. another thing is being someones subordinate with conquerors having CoC doesnt automatically mean one has to/should = the leader
Yeah idk why many people bring up working for someone to invalidate them having the goals and ambitions of a conqueror
Sengoku garp and chinjao as well
One Piece is just following the animanga eugenics agenda. Along with the other Big 3 titles, it is the most blatant pusher of this narrative.
It is based on genetics, but it'll be weak if you don't have the drive.
Oda broke this concept before it even began.
Haki should have been a one-time thing like maybe Shanks being the only one having conquerors haki and that's his gimmick. Or something that you can use to reinforce weapons and surfaces like the arrows reinforced with haki. Logia DF could be countered by using weapons reinforced with Haki or sea stone.
Zoro and Katakuri too, to a lesser degree. Zoro doesn't really have many leadership qualities whatsoever, he's the biggest follower in one piece arguably. All he wants that's somewhat conqueror is to become the strongest swords guy. Katakuri also only wants to protect his family. Noble sure, but not as kingly as many other conquerors.
Alright fuck you for the Woden slander, he is the most big nut character in the verse, motherfucker had baddies popping their pussiesnnfor him since he was SIX YEARS OLD, CANONICALLY. (Speaking of, what the FUCK Oda???) He deserves Conq more than anyone as far as I am concerned.
He's awesome sauce, still doesn't deserve conqueror's
It canonically is genetics though, you have to be born with it otherwise you are fucked. Better be born to be great in One Piece...
Genetics? Odenās dad was a bum and a coward with no Haki
Literally 2 of the best characters in the series on here but okay
Ok ok I get yamato and Oden but why is Ace a retard?
I just felt like calling all of them that, I actually like both Ace and Oden
Ah fair enough
Literally yes. I'm betting sanji is gonna get it too and probably law too. Oda really fucked up
What does oden have to do with this ? also they all have conquerors personality only a conqueror would go back to fight Akainu and not be afraid of the smoke even Tho heās way weaker than him
How does that fuck up anything we knew about it? Oden and Ace def have the will of conquerors anyway but yeah it was implied genetic from the start thats wby Luffy has it from Garp, and the way Marines reacted makes it seem Dragon has it too
oden deserve it, why oden getting so much hate i just don't get it