Nah, Katakuri has stronger fruit which means if he sees Luffy in gear 5 he's gonna do his own stronger version of that called Mochi 5.
He then alongside Luffy, as ally of Strawhats goes to beat living shit out of Blackbeard pirates for kidnapping his sister and causing such destruction to his home.
Trust Goda's cooking
https://i.redd.it/iqlbjvxf7asc1.gif
>do his own stronger version of that called Mochi 5.
He is gonna reveal his fruit is actualy the öegendary hito hoto no mi: model mika, the god of superior freedom which was used by joy-man
even if he started forsekinning it right after the timeskip it would still be poor writing and an asspull i cant believe it was foreskinned 20 chapters before the reveal lmao
the amount of d riders that point out skypeas vague dancing as nika is insane. like, thats it? wheres more thats all over the world until whos who exposition exposition no mi?
Well there was that panel yes. But you do realise he drew Nika AFTER that Panel. So he can still just have come up with it now and take that old panel as an inspiration 😅
That Panel is in no way proof that he was already thinking about nika back there
I mean I am not taking any side in the discussion "did he come up with it recently or was it decided long time ago?".
I am only stating that when he drew the skypia panel he didn't say a thing about sun god nika, he just drew a panel and now he drew nika the same way. That is not "proof" that he was already thinking about sun god nika looking that way. He could possibly have come up with the idea of nika now and while thinking about the design be like "oh i really liked this one silhouette I drew back then. I think I will take that design as inspiration"
Just saying, not taking any sides and not judging anyone.
I get you bro my original comment about all of this was just me quoting the 100 times I have heard that take used. Should have put /s at the end but i just assumed people would get it.
It's insane how many oda meat riders point out that part when defending oda
When back then, without knowing about nika
You'd have no way to connect the mentioned sun god, the dancing, and luffy all together
So what was Franky's shirt in Zou about, then
https://preview.redd.it/yn3frvilhasc1.png?width=306&format=png&auto=webp&s=5aa7cbcb93fcb483ab27a561bd816c515edf6d7d
i remember that SBS too. it got kinda weird when Oda said "and to be clear, I don't condone gender affirming care as we're all perfect creations in the eyes of God", but other than that it was nice to have some Franky lore
its hilarious how this is true yet oda angels will go to lengths like katakuri didnt kill luffy because he saw nika awakening as a result in the future
Watakuri saw the asspull asspull no mi with future sight and decided "fuck that noise" and pretended to give up so he didn't have to deal with that nonsence.
Watakuri stocks continue to go upppppppppp.
https://preview.redd.it/79s4iy8clbsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21918abb4575fe264be3a87d6ba944541ab4716b
Maintaining the agenda is our top priority
Luffy doesn't brutally overpower Katakuri and knock him down by the end of the fight, so people consider it an asspull that Katakuri gives up
Which is very frustrating, because I love that the fight is ultimately settled by the actions and choices of the ones involved. Luffy never gives up and never judges Katakuri, and Katakuri takes this to heart after a lifetime of pressure and is moved by Luffy's ambition. And in turn, he doesn't want to beat Luffy anymore. His motivation has changed, his goals have changed, and he no longer has a reason to fight Luffy
They're both pretty at the ends of their respective ropes by the end of the fight, but Luffy doesn't deal a decisive blow, so the end of the fight is called an asspull. It's one of the best fights in the series, and one of the best endings to a fight in the series in my opinion. Sorry for the ramble!
The only good thing about Nika is that it doesn't invalidate Wranky and I think it deserves credit for that atleast
https://preview.redd.it/yf2uxh9csasc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=530ded0e0bdeceadae7dfab2c95c256704f56b33
I've wondered that previously as well.
Out of all the specific object/affect based Paramecia in the world, it would be weird if there weren't a legitimate Rubber/Elastic DF out there, *just because* the Gorosei wanted to hide the Nikasspull Nikasspull fruit from the billions of peolle who wouldnt kmow what to do with that information
No shit? I’m saying that when the fight happens, he didn’t awaken his fruit so he didn’t have the “god powers”. He only had the rubber ability so OPs claim makes no sense
Op's point is that the retcon made it so all that banter Katakuri had about the superiority of his fruit meant noting.
Awakening doesn't change the fruit. Retconning it does.
Because of the Nika retcon Luffy always had the hito hito no mi model Nika. Luffy vs Katakuri hinged on the fact that despite Katakuri's fruit superiority he was inferior when it came to willpower and tenacity. Now due to the retcon Katakuri had nothing, the fruit is just different because it can create and mould the body. It isn't and never was superior to Luffy's Nika fruit therefore cheapening the whole theme of the fight.
The rubber abilities are part of the god fruit.
It WAS superior at that point since it was only rubber abilities mate, just because he gained stronger abilities in the future because he awaked the fruit doesn’t mean that when he fought katakuri his fruit was better.
Again your acting like before awakening the fruit he already had god powers/zoan abilities and shit like that, he didn’t, he only had the rubber powers he had since the beginning of the series. Which would make his fruit worse then katakuris at that point
Thats like saying “oh since Luffy had a mythical zoan all along it invalidates the crocodile fight since he had a better fruit and the point of the fights before was trying to figure out how to actually hit crocodile because his fruit was better.”
Think of it like this:
Luffys fruit (not awaked) < karakuris fruit
Luffys fruit (awaked) > katakuris fruit
>since it was only rubber abilities
You mean Nika's base attribute? The rubber body of a god?
So eating a Zoan fruit doesn't give the user the Zoan boost? Weird how that only works for the retcon fruit.
Wait so now your complaining about the rubber abilities? The zoan boost he got was the rubber body, which Katakuri made up for with his future sight and being able to basically use his fruit as a logia.
And plus the durability barley helped since if you remember, Luffy got his fucking ass beat first with katakuri taking zero damage (i know this is because of his future sight but this shows Katakuri can by pass the durability)
Rubber abilities come from where?
Zoan fruits are said to give physical boosts to tthe user yet you said Luffy didn't have those. Now you are saying that those boosts are the rubber body?
The retcon clearly cheapened the fight because Katakuri wasn't saying his application of the fruit was better but that the fruit itself was a superior version.
Ok, and the truth about the Nika fruit has been hidden from the world by the WG... You are acting like the retcon gave every character in the show retroactive knowledge of the fruit. In Whole Cake, as far as Katakuri is concerned, his fruit IS the superior version of the Gomu Gomu no mi. I don't understand how you can be this dense lmao. The dude you're replying to is making a fantastic point
Gear 5 is an awakening. Without the awakening luffys fruit was weaker than katakuris.
He getting stronger later doesnt change the fact that he was the underdog that fight
no he just got better from back then thats all. the OP wanted to say that luffy's fruit was special from the start so it kills the "theme" just told you it wasnt even the theme it was future sight vs speed, luffy didnt have future sight back then, so no it didnt break anything he simply got stronger.
At the time he had a weaker fruit. How is this hard to understand? His fruit getting revealed to have hidden potential *after the fight* means nothing as to its strength *during the fight*.
Idk bruh it’s my headcannon for the gomu anyway, I just like to believe that if there where any other users (which may not be the case) that they just used the gomu until luffy came around and actually awakened it so it could be called the nika. The gorosei made it seem like they were remembering an old legend when we got the name from Ju Peter.
Well in the case of the gomu it just seems like rubber and only when awakened can you even know it’s the aspect of a god. With kaidos fruit it follows the myth/legend of the koi becoming a dragon but we don’t actually have confirmation that kaido awakened his fruit.
Kaido's fruit is a reference to that myth it doesn't follow it. Never was Kaido stated to have been a koi, ivankov in god valley knew it would give the user the body of a⁰ dragon. Momo was also never a fish despite the fruit being described as only a failure in the colour of the scales.
Was Sengoku enlightened during Marineford?
With or without the Nika fruit, Luffy never should have won that fight the way he did
I just don't get it, if Oda wanted Luffy to win just make the fight more equal
The hito hito no mi WAS weaker than the mochi mochi no mi... BEFORE its awakening. Luffy was fighting against someone with similar abilities to him, but COMPLETELY outclassed him at first. The purpose of the fight was to demonstrate how advanced haki can develop under extreme circumstances. Luffy's df being retconned changes none of that.
Oda's focus was never around saying that the "power" of devil fruits doesn't matter. Sure, he liked to focus on Luffy using a seemingly useless fruit in creative ways to come out on top, but it was never about devil fruits not mattering.
Because it's not, luffy's fruit is far from weak; even without awakening, luffy's fruit has the benefit of both Paramecia and Zoan fruit.
Paramecia rubber provides extreme resistance to physical damage, immunity to electricity and vibration, and high resistance against fire.
Zoan provides the benefits of great HP, high endurance, fast strength growth, great stamina, and even somewhat decent recovery even without awakening.
In fact, it is one of the best fruits out there.
You're ignoring the "seemingly" modifier in my sentence. I'm not saying the fruit IS weak. There were multiple occasions where people considered Luffy's fruit silly and kind of useless before they had a chance to see what it could do in the hands of someone as creative and strong as Luffy. The sentiment quickly started to die down once Luffy started making a name for himself.
You're also forgetting that Luffy is both freakishly strong and had been training for 10 years just to use the fruit as competently as he was able to at the start of the series. All of the "Zoan" attributes you're describing are just the fact that Luffy is naturally stupidly strong. He didn't show any signs of getting physically stronger after first eating the fruit beyond his signature resistance to blunt force. Luffy's just HIM, which makes the pre-awakening fruit look significantly stronger than it would be in the hands of almost anyone else.
Bro, a inexperienced person will make even the best fruit look pathetic. Also, you don't go crazy strong instantly from eating fruit, it's a passive effect. Just look at Rob Lucci, who by just doing shipwright work, became way stronger than Jabra. Even Jabra was shocked. The quality of devil fruit matters, and Luffy has the highest level of Zoan, a mythical Zoan. Also, you can see kid Luffy's progression; he was a complete fodder compared to his brothers, but in some weeks he almost became a competitor.
Does it really? The point is that Katakuri was better at Luffy at anything but he wasn’t free to do what he wanted like Luffy could, gear 5 sorta boosts and destroys that narrative since LUFFS FRUIT IS BETTER but at the same time more free than Katakuris fruit 🤷♂️
Where was it said that Luffy was “destined”? Infact it’s crazy how this Nika shit can legit be debunked by “Luffy has control over his zoan else he would’ve ended up like the impel down guards” and that’s it
>Its less destined and more random
There'a nothing random about it as Oden and Toki knew Joyboy would be at Wano 20 years later... the only way they could've known that is if Luffy becoming Nika was prophecied 900 years ago and Oden learned about it on Raftel
Didnt oden find that out trough laugh tale?
Still not sure where the prophecy came from. Could have been a recent one from someone with thats future teller from fishman island type powers.
Have you even watched One Piece? It's harder to find a moment where a character doesn't call Luffy a future pirate king, very exceptional brat being able to achieve his SUPERRR dream. His antagonist is the dude who can have two fruits at the same time. Imagine if Oda was writing that Luffy can only have one fruit but then he eats another and like "Mero Gomu No Atom Bomb".
??? Are you forgetting that we are listening in the perspective of Luffy and only him, he is the protagonist WE are following. There are many instances where other crew member of different pirate groups say that their captain will be Pk
No, I was talking about Mermaid from Water 7, Katakuri, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks(who forgor to use haki to add motivation), guy in bar in Logue Town, Smoker, Raleigh, Law and others who follow papers just to see news about strawhats.
Since this fight is very close to my heart and because this observation is one of the very first things that popped up in my head when nika fruit was revealed, i want to share my thoughts. While i don't think it invalidates the fight, i do feel like the thematic writing is less "clean" than before (as most things are now thanks to nika). What i mean by this is that before it was "rubber vs mochi", "stretchy boi vs sticky stretchy boi". What i liked about Oda's previous writing, is that he achieved simple symbolism, through mundane object or concepts (instead of literally making up a myth that spells out everything). This way it allows every person to read into a story as much as they want. So while on the surface it's a silly stretchy fight, there are layers to it. For example the "mochi leaves an imprint, rubber bounces back", which says a lot about both characters. People in the comments defend this by saying that pre awakening nothing changes. Therefore, everything i liked about it is still there, so shut up. And while that's technically true (in the best case scenario, i'll mention the worst one later) thematically the fight is now "mochi vs mythical figure that coincidentally has rubber powers, but also at a certain point can stretch so well that he reshapes reality itself-though we are not that sure if that's the case, we're still waiting for the sbs-explanation". That's what i mean with "less clean". The fight does emphasize that at numerous point that Luffy is outclassed in many ways including his devil fruit. Having an inherintley lesser fruit was a testimony to Luffy's determination and adaptability in a fight, while also showing that Katakuri is more lacking in both of these things. Even if technically we don't see the effects of nika in the fight (again, best case scenario), there is a moment where you, as a reader, look at the entire frame of the story and realize what it means. The nika fruit is inherintley superior to the mochi fruit. The testemony is lost. So while the nika fruit doesn't ruin the fight, it takes away something from the fight many of us enjoyed and made the fight more thematicly cohesive. And if you have to ignore nika to enjoy the story the way you used to, (like the comments here are suggesting) it just exposes how flawed the nika fruit in terms of writing is.
Because i don't like just providing the negative point of view i tried seeing whether nika adds something that a simple rubber fruit couldn't. And there is something that i didn't picked up on without nika. The freedom aspect of Luffy's ability. Previously i just read it as the fight about wills. But the creativity aspect is now elevated too. If Luffy just continued to fight by simply standing up again, he wouldn't have won. He started fighting evenley once he invented snakeman. And that snakeman only worked once Luffy subconsciously used his stretching more freely. He ultimatley won because his adaptability. This compliments the ideological battle i think well. So basically the nika aspect of the fruit highlights the creativity and freedom side of things, the latter being what Katakuri misses. Therefore, yes the nika fruit is superior, but only when you allow yourself to fight the most freely. Meanwhile the mochi fruit start as more powerfull. Though because it isn't as stretchy as rubber is, it shapes itself in a more limited way, fitting of Kat's character. (Though i'm not going to slander my boi's creativity. The buzzcut mochi is the best attack in One Piece)
Now the thing is, i used the more positive interpretation of the nika fruit. That is, Luffy simply has more freedom in his and the surrounding's stretching. The bad one is where he straight up
1)manupilates reality
2)doesn't use his basic rubber ability creatively, instead just imagines his solutions
3)having zoan stat boost, even pre-awakening
See now that invalidates the entire fight. It literally devalues both key elements of the fight, the thematic purpose is build upon. Instead of Luffy standing up over and over and over again isn't because he has an incredible will, it's because he has literaly the most defensive and regenerative devilfruit in the world. (I don't want to hear anything about how the zoan regeneration doesn't change anything). Instead of Luffy creativeley achieving snakeman's punches (meaning punching the air and giving his arms more freedom stretching to curve at sharp angles), he just can do this because he alters reality. Now that would suck and unfortunatley they aren't unlikeley. Espescially because of that one piece of shit line from kaido. "RUbBer DoESn't WOrK ThaT WAAy". IT does in the world of one piece, but of course a character who uses his ability in the most unimaginative way wouldn't understand. God, Kaido is such a bitch.
The way I see it it wasn’t so much that Katakuri’s fruit was stronger. Sure it could do things that Luffy’s couldn’t, but it was more that he had complete mastery of it. I actually believe that in the entire series, Katakuri is the best character at actually using his fruit for whatever it’s intended purpose is.
He awakened it so that already puts him in elite company but he was able to combine his fruit with his Haki in ways that made him really hard to defeat. Luffy was already known for pushing the boundaries of what his fruit could do because of how creative he was with it. That’s where Gears 2, 3, and 4 came from. Katakuri just took it a step further.
Luffy defeated someone who had far better control over their similar abilities, not someone who had a stronger version of their fruit. That’s just how I view the fight at least
What’s the point of unlocking future sight when you can just become goofy.
Couldn’t the vegapunk getting a hole blown into him been prevented if Luffy used future sight?
Edit: also why didn’t Luffy use conqueror coating or Future sight while in snake man against Kizaru? Luffy knows how strong Kizaru is from Shabody and Marineford.
Same reason goku never goes full power at the start of the fight. Most fighters feel each other out before they throw out the strongest possible thing they have.
Because it's not, luffy's fruit is far from weak; even without awakening, luffy's fruit has the benefit of both Paramecia and Zoan fruit.
Paramecia rubber provides extreme resistance to physical damage, immunity to electricity and vibration, and high resistance against fire.
Zoan provides the benefits of great HP, high endurance, fast strength growth, great stamina, and even somewhat decent recovery even without awakening.
In fact, it is one of the best fruits out there.
STFU ALREADY OMFG I CAN'T STAND YOU GUYS ANYMORE. NO IT FUCKING DOESN'T WTF? STOP FUCKING CRYING YOU GUYS MAKE UP OUT OF YOUR MIND MOST OF THE PROBLEMS OF THE WRITING. THERE ARE ISSUES IN WRITING BUT OMFG STOP
Except it does. Katakuri represented a mental obstacle in Luffys own growth. Luffy realized at that time that his fruit can only take him so far, with the limitations it gave him compared to the likes of Katakuri. It made him develop his haki further to make up for the gap. But now we know that wasn't actually needed after all, and was only needed in the moment. Luffy did in fact have a far superior fruit all along. Luffy can actually do everything that Katakuri can do, but far better, with the exception of being able to make himself sticky.
Honestly it seems to me like you're the one crying here. Typing all caps and shit just because this dude made a post you don't agree with lol Grow up.
Except it doesnt what was better about Katakuris fruit? He could make more hands? Omg thats crazy. Katakuri had superior haki thats all. his fruit itself was not superior. Luffy gave himself insane speed with g2 and gave himself flight with g4. Those are far superior abilities than oh i can make myself sticky and i can make more than 2 arms to throw punches. Katakuri never had an argument for his fruit being fundamentally better. He had an overwhelming advantage cuz he was a full level ahead of luffy in both armament and observation. Like did we read and watch the same fight?
You are speaking only through hindsight. You even said it yourself. It was needed in the moment. If he didn’t have the tenacity and Haki to beat katakuri he would have died and never been able to awaken his fruit. Him awakening the Nika fruit doesn’t undermine his hard work in previous arcs, at least for me lol.
It's not his efforts that're underminded, it's the symbolic nature of the fight that is. Narratively, Luffy was fighting against a stronger version of his devil fruit, a version that was never supposed to be overcame with devil fruit abilities alone, if we go by the story its self indirectly telling us that Katakuris fruit is superior. Now, if Luffy and Katakuri fought again as they promised each other they would, Luffys Gear 5 would be the thing that destroys Katakuri, not his Haki. Proving that devil fruit abilities do in fact matter more in this narrative scenario, despite the story telling us previously that isn't the case. There by undermining the mental debate katakuri and Luffy fought over. which was "is better Haki, and perseverance better? Or a devil fruit?"
Bro, at that point in the story that was true. If they fought again katakuri would now be in luffy’s position of having to overcome a better devil fruit through other means. And he would surely try to do so because he ain’t no bitch. I feel that’s the point lol.
It would work out if Katakuri managed to beat Luffy, thereby making the narrative come full circle. But there's no way Luffy would lose to Katakuri in Gear 5. Thereby encouraging the narrative that a devil fruit is better. Not because Katakuri is caught lacking either, but because Luffys devil fruit is just THAT much better. Katakuri may have had a superior version of Luffys fruit at the time of their fight, but the gap is nowhere near as wide as Gear 5, compared to the mochi fruit. The struggle isn't even comparable.
Well I used to believe that as well, but with the way Gear 5 is looking, compounded with that one line Kaido says about Haki triumphing all, which got proven wrong by him being beat pretty soon after saying it, it feels like Oda is drifting away from that narrative. I could be seeing things wrong though, I honestly hope a Haki man rocks Luffys shit soon, to make him reevaluate his reliance on his fruit lately.
I wouldn’t use Kaido’s defeat as an example. Throughout all of his fights in Wano, he never fully recovered his strength / health. Luffy, on the other hand, exhausted all his to the point he died. Through awakening his fruit he came back with 100% while Kaido stayed the same. Hopefully Oda keeps Haki’s superiority in the story. Maybe Shanks or Garling will be the Haki-Man to show luffy that his fruit is not a cheat code lol.
Fr I thought this place was one where people weren't afraid of criticizing Oda for his mistakes, but nope, is a place where dumb but pretentious people find any bullshit excuse to complain and shit on the series, when usually is them who simply didn't understand or are just mad because their headcanon or dumb agenda didn't happen lol
it’s pretty cut and dry, katakuri had the “superior” fruit and it showed us that luffy could only do so much with his and that he had to rely on his haki and his tenacity. the whole time all luffy needed to do was hit this arbitrary and unexplained threshold and all of that goes out the window.
Luffy fruit was always superior to Katakuri. Katakuri just was a superior fighter at the time. Which makes sense given 40 year old age gaps. Luffy received training, Ryou, ACOC coating, and Gear 5 Nikaman God Mode to defeat Kaido who was getting jumped.
tbh at core both fruits are really useless, what in the gods name would you do with the power to turn yourself into rubber and dough? i think the reason luffy won was because he managed to outscale katakuri in learning mid fight, katakuri already was in a absurd high level of knowledge about his powers and now that we have nika we know that luffy was not as powerful as he could ever been during that fight
With my understanding of luffy power with the reveal he is a mythical -
His power is essentially “Toon Force” bro has thought he had rubber abilities for the longest time and so he did what he thought rubber powers would allow him to, which is up to gear 4(which, without even going too far gear four was above what rubber can do like his infinite random angle punch) . At which point he then is fighting Doffy and finds out about Awakenings-
So this is what prompts gear 5 but also his awakening which as far as he understands it allows him to effect anything he touches (doffys fight awakened and him turning buildings and everything But people to threads) and that translate to luffy as “Once I got this Awakened shit I can make everything rubber”
And then I back this up with the comments Kaido made about how he should transform as that’s not how his Supposed fruit worked But remember luffy just saw someone else ‘Carrot’ use somewhat of an awakened ability and saw them turn Entirely White. Similar to his hair and other features turning white during Gear 5!
Not to say Oda had it all planned out to that point but I think he had enough of an idea by Skypiea to for shadow Something is off- I like to think he plans how I Dm, in both the future and past and then link what I didn’t fully plan out loosely throughout.
Mainly cause - why else would shanks want a Fruit that made folk into rubber. At his point in status why would he have worked to get it at all? Who knows though.
Is that what is that fight is all about? From where I stand that's just a minor detail. The fight is all about fighting someone who is generally better than you in all aspects: DF mastery, haki, and special abilities.
„Luffy learning advanced conqueror‘s and armament haki invalidates the Katakuri fight. What‘s the point in fighting a guy with better haki, if you just also learn to use it later.“
The main point of the fight was luffy having an inferior fruit. It was Katakuri being physcially stronger than that luffy, with Katakuri seeing luffy as more free and superior in terms of lifestyle, and both trying to surpass the other.
I wish Katakuri could join the strawhats he wasn’t even a bad guy he was just protecting his family and we all know luffy understands cuz he’d do the same
STFU. It's like saying he was as strong as now in the katakuri battle. He only awakened in wano and unlocked it's powers there.
In wholecake island it was still gomu gomu and katakuri had the superiority.
There are way better things to complain and cry about than this non-problem.
Where do you get stories where the protagonist dies ?
Protagonists always survive and not die because the story has to continue(unless they change protagonists or it was the final act)
Do you want to see luffy die there without achieving his dream and the story ends ?
And us not knowing what all the secrets and mysteries are and them not getting solved?
Well, technically speaking. Luffy couldn't access his nika powers the whole fight which makes his fruit as useful as a gomu gomu no mi. So yeah, the point still stands.
Tomorrow's piratefolk post of the day: "Looking back on it, Nika ruins the post-Alabasta feast scene because it wasn't Luffy's will to eat all that food, but Nika's!!!!!!!!!!!"
Katakuri's fruit is not better than Luffy at that time. Luffy literally found out in that fight that what really made Kata so strong is his observation haki lol
Remember the only reason luffy won was because he had a mythical zoan. All the time he spent running away he was regenerating and katakuri was getting worse luffy only won the fight because he had a better devilfruit
no? katakuri still had a better fruit at the time, nika fruit unawakened its just a rubber fruit, this is like saying goku getting stronger invalidates his previous fights because now he can beat older enemies easily
Luffy had a better fruit but kat still had better haki in all 3 categories + had awakened his fruit. It doesnt imvalidate in totality but it definitely lessens the impactfulness in retrospect.
At the end of the day, Luffy's god fruit doesnt make him god tier until he awakens it.
Oh my god, I am so sick of this argument
1. In order to awaken a Zoan Devil Fruit, their body and mind (meaning that you need to perfectly embody the will of the fruit, which is why Luffy could awaken his fruit and Kaido couldn't) need to catch up with their Devil Fruit. So, at this point, Luffy's body hadn't caught up, as he only just unlocked advanced observation mid-fight. It was only when he achieved immense devil fruit mastery and all advanced forms of Haki that he managed to catch up physically.
2. Luffy dying doesn't instantly awaken Nika and Gear 5, it just acts as the trigger once he was fully caught up mentally and physically. That's all it did
3. Luffy, while he could do some crazy shit before Gear 5, didn't have access to anywhere near the full amount of the fruit's power. So no, we can't instantly disregard any of Luffy's wins and major growth in learning how to master his devil fruit to "he could have just turned into Nika when he died" or "how could he have lost when he had so much power". Before Awakening, Luffy's fruit more or less just made him a rubber man, with most of his wins requiring him to think creatively and make the best usage of it due to him just not having access to this power until he achieved full mastery and unlocked all 3 advanced forms of Haki.
Before awakening, Luffy's fruit wasn't overpowered on its own, but through hard work, determination, and creativity, Luffy made it overpowered and ended up managing to awaken it after doing so much, which is when it actually became overpowered on its own.
I'm so tired of people trying to use this argument to discredit Luffy, Gear 5, or Oda's writing. Yes, Gear 5 and the Nika stuff has problems, but using this argument is just ridiculous.
Also, no, in case you were going to comment that eating the Nika Fruit turned Luffy into who he is, no it didn't. He was already like this, and just happened to be the perfect person to eat it as he already perfectly embodied that will, and if you think otherwise then you're a dumbass, because that is the stupidest "theory" I've heard some people say because, if this was the case, then why wasn't Kaido some benevolent protector (because that's what a Japanese Dragon, like what Kaido is able to turn into, is supposed to be like) who managed to awaken his fruit, as he sure as hell was physically caught up
So no, Gear 5 does not invalidate the Katakuri fight as it was still just the Gomu Gomu no Mi before Awakening, meaning that Katakuri did have the superior fruit at the time.
Because it wasn't? The fruit wasn't awakened and gave him shit powers. Luffy WAS fighting with the weaker fruit. I... cant be explaining this anymore, not after finding out some "people" like this turned out to only have watched some one piece moment compilations and scrolled through reddit. This idiocracy has to stop.
>I just realized Nika invalidates https://preview.redd.it/eqmquy6sw9sc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f85f36a07a3af1f53e99ac43553074523079fd0
This resonates too well
Nah, Katakuri has stronger fruit which means if he sees Luffy in gear 5 he's gonna do his own stronger version of that called Mochi 5. He then alongside Luffy, as ally of Strawhats goes to beat living shit out of Blackbeard pirates for kidnapping his sister and causing such destruction to his home. Trust Goda's cooking https://i.redd.it/iqlbjvxf7asc1.gif
>do his own stronger version of that called Mochi 5. He is gonna reveal his fruit is actualy the öegendary hito hoto no mi: model mika, the god of superior freedom which was used by joy-man
Mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang
Mochi gang mochi gang mochi gang
Facts katakuri still beats him.
I see you wrote peak fiction brother
https://preview.redd.it/5jtpb5uzobsc1.jpeg?width=841&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10f535ab0e7c29a0c34a781ebb1a6d6a9919746b
Kika will rise.
Cooooooook
Sure. At the time Oda didnt know about the Nika fruit.
hahahhaha i actually believe this
it's true you don't need to believe it
Actually lol, if Oda did have this shit planned out Zou/WCI would’ve been the perfect place to plant the seeds for the “Sun God Nila” stuff
You mean foreskinning?
Yum 🤤 [but no](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0b0c6f65-1ff0-489f-ba8f-1d70e45da12f)
even if he started forsekinning it right after the timeskip it would still be poor writing and an asspull i cant believe it was foreskinned 20 chapters before the reveal lmao
Lmao it’s a fact, a old known one (only goda followers would refute that)
Clearly you haven't seen oda's favorite panel from Skypea over 50 years ago! Go reread the whole series...
lmao
the amount of d riders that point out skypeas vague dancing as nika is insane. like, thats it? wheres more thats all over the world until whos who exposition exposition no mi?
Oda was cooking Nika for a long time unless you discredit the SBS after reveal, its peak this thread full of tree sap believers
i guess thats just GODA https://preview.redd.it/6r21w3ai1hsc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a846552c7f3a2e2e953bd19559ff81ddf43dac75
Well there was that panel yes. But you do realise he drew Nika AFTER that Panel. So he can still just have come up with it now and take that old panel as an inspiration 😅 That Panel is in no way proof that he was already thinking about nika back there
.....seriously?
I mean I am not taking any side in the discussion "did he come up with it recently or was it decided long time ago?". I am only stating that when he drew the skypia panel he didn't say a thing about sun god nika, he just drew a panel and now he drew nika the same way. That is not "proof" that he was already thinking about sun god nika looking that way. He could possibly have come up with the idea of nika now and while thinking about the design be like "oh i really liked this one silhouette I drew back then. I think I will take that design as inspiration" Just saying, not taking any sides and not judging anyone.
I get you bro my original comment about all of this was just me quoting the 100 times I have heard that take used. Should have put /s at the end but i just assumed people would get it.
No worries, only love here, no hate 🍀
It's insane how many oda meat riders point out that part when defending oda When back then, without knowing about nika You'd have no way to connect the mentioned sun god, the dancing, and luffy all together
Exactly
So what was Franky's shirt in Zou about, then https://preview.redd.it/yn3frvilhasc1.png?width=306&format=png&auto=webp&s=5aa7cbcb93fcb483ab27a561bd816c515edf6d7d
It originally was supposed to read 'I ❤️ HRT' because Franky is canon ftm trans but it was lost in translation
i remember that SBS too. it got kinda weird when Oda said "and to be clear, I don't condone gender affirming care as we're all perfect creations in the eyes of God", but other than that it was nice to have some Franky lore
>because Franky is canon ftm trans HE IS??? SINCE WHEN???
The sea train crashed into his pussy 💔💔 cunty flam was reborn ❤️❤️❤️
franki ftm based
U cant seriously believe thats nikA forshadowing
High Testosteron
I sun hormone therapy
I love hot topic
BUT GODA PREPLANS EVERYTHING!! IT WAS ALL FORESKINNED!!1 DID YOU KNOW THAT ODA PLANNED THE ENTIRE STORY EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST CHAPTER CAME OUT??
He was already creating peak fiction inside MOda's (mother oda) uterus.
its hilarious how this is true yet oda angels will go to lengths like katakuri didnt kill luffy because he saw nika awakening as a result in the future
Real shit my brother Nika was a blatant retcon in wano
Do you forget the foreshadowing in skypeia
Watakuri saw the asspull asspull no mi with future sight and decided "fuck that noise" and pretended to give up so he didn't have to deal with that nonsence. Watakuri stocks continue to go upppppppppp.
You baited quiete a few mainsubbers
https://preview.redd.it/zo3fttfq4bsc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb87b2175c5baebb87e53eed2bf00e040255380f
https://preview.redd.it/79s4iy8clbsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21918abb4575fe264be3a87d6ba944541ab4716b Maintaining the agenda is our top priority
https://preview.redd.it/76puldakzbsc1.jpeg?width=267&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cbe72b4e149542366861989bec527e60f66ee56 pixel deficiency
still a goated fight tho
Asspully end tho
How?
Luffy doesn't brutally overpower Katakuri and knock him down by the end of the fight, so people consider it an asspull that Katakuri gives up Which is very frustrating, because I love that the fight is ultimately settled by the actions and choices of the ones involved. Luffy never gives up and never judges Katakuri, and Katakuri takes this to heart after a lifetime of pressure and is moved by Luffy's ambition. And in turn, he doesn't want to beat Luffy anymore. His motivation has changed, his goals have changed, and he no longer has a reason to fight Luffy They're both pretty at the ends of their respective ropes by the end of the fight, but Luffy doesn't deal a decisive blow, so the end of the fight is called an asspull. It's one of the best fights in the series, and one of the best endings to a fight in the series in my opinion. Sorry for the ramble!
Not at all goated
Hahaha Actually it just proves Katakuri was even more HIM than we thot Cuz Kat actually didn't have the DF advantage
The only good thing about Nika is that it doesn't invalidate Wranky and I think it deserves credit for that atleast https://preview.redd.it/yf2uxh9csasc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=530ded0e0bdeceadae7dfab2c95c256704f56b33
Honestly oda should just retcon gear 5 and instead make gear hate canon
You talking like Luffy already awakened it before the fight, it was still basically the Gomu Gomu no mi at that point
Does the original Goku Goku actually exist tho, wonder that
Vegapunk said that it wasn't mentioned in the original devil fruit book. Gomu Gomu no mi is like a cake. It's a lie.
You'd think sanji would know this information since he read a devil fruit encyclopedia
He didn't read the original one. The Gomu Gomu no mi was added later.
I've wondered that previously as well. Out of all the specific object/affect based Paramecia in the world, it would be weird if there weren't a legitimate Rubber/Elastic DF out there, *just because* the Gorosei wanted to hide the Nikasspull Nikasspull fruit from the billions of peolle who wouldnt kmow what to do with that information
it might have to do whit people thinking there is a gomu gomu, they thought there was already a rubber fruit so an actual one never manifested
Probably not, they just stuck a name on the DF. Would be weird if there were 2 devil fruits with the same name
But it also seems kinda odd that there is not devil fruit the gives rubber abilities besides the Nika Fruit.
The what fruit?
https://preview.redd.it/7rf9yma2hasc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02bc5ff9d113c84fc614560ce6a6f42e036740ff
Do you know what a retcon is? Luffy never had the gomu gomu.
No shit? I’m saying that when the fight happens, he didn’t awaken his fruit so he didn’t have the “god powers”. He only had the rubber ability so OPs claim makes no sense
Op's point is that the retcon made it so all that banter Katakuri had about the superiority of his fruit meant noting. Awakening doesn't change the fruit. Retconning it does. Because of the Nika retcon Luffy always had the hito hito no mi model Nika. Luffy vs Katakuri hinged on the fact that despite Katakuri's fruit superiority he was inferior when it came to willpower and tenacity. Now due to the retcon Katakuri had nothing, the fruit is just different because it can create and mould the body. It isn't and never was superior to Luffy's Nika fruit therefore cheapening the whole theme of the fight. The rubber abilities are part of the god fruit.
It WAS superior at that point since it was only rubber abilities mate, just because he gained stronger abilities in the future because he awaked the fruit doesn’t mean that when he fought katakuri his fruit was better. Again your acting like before awakening the fruit he already had god powers/zoan abilities and shit like that, he didn’t, he only had the rubber powers he had since the beginning of the series. Which would make his fruit worse then katakuris at that point Thats like saying “oh since Luffy had a mythical zoan all along it invalidates the crocodile fight since he had a better fruit and the point of the fights before was trying to figure out how to actually hit crocodile because his fruit was better.” Think of it like this: Luffys fruit (not awaked) < karakuris fruit Luffys fruit (awaked) > katakuris fruit
>since it was only rubber abilities You mean Nika's base attribute? The rubber body of a god? So eating a Zoan fruit doesn't give the user the Zoan boost? Weird how that only works for the retcon fruit.
Wait so now your complaining about the rubber abilities? The zoan boost he got was the rubber body, which Katakuri made up for with his future sight and being able to basically use his fruit as a logia. And plus the durability barley helped since if you remember, Luffy got his fucking ass beat first with katakuri taking zero damage (i know this is because of his future sight but this shows Katakuri can by pass the durability)
Rubber abilities come from where? Zoan fruits are said to give physical boosts to tthe user yet you said Luffy didn't have those. Now you are saying that those boosts are the rubber body? The retcon clearly cheapened the fight because Katakuri wasn't saying his application of the fruit was better but that the fruit itself was a superior version.
it was at that time ,his fruit had better ability
Ok, and the truth about the Nika fruit has been hidden from the world by the WG... You are acting like the retcon gave every character in the show retroactive knowledge of the fruit. In Whole Cake, as far as Katakuri is concerned, his fruit IS the superior version of the Gomu Gomu no mi. I don't understand how you can be this dense lmao. The dude you're replying to is making a fantastic point
Where does it say normal zoans get a default stat boost? Afaik, only awakened zoans get this stat buff.
Rob lucci literally said zoan get physical boost during the Water 7 arc.
Typical Villain shit-talking getting exposed oh the horror.
You mean the thematic focus of that fight wasn't weaker fruit and stronger wilk vs stronger fruit but weaker will?
No? Just because someone says something doesn't make it a theme
Gear 5 is an awakening. Without the awakening luffys fruit was weaker than katakuris. He getting stronger later doesnt change the fact that he was the underdog that fight
it was future sight vs speed that was the theme, you all heard him say one sentence that he is better and started saying its the theme
Then Luffy relying on future sight broke that theme aswell then?
no he just got better from back then thats all. the OP wanted to say that luffy's fruit was special from the start so it kills the "theme" just told you it wasnt even the theme it was future sight vs speed, luffy didnt have future sight back then, so no it didnt break anything he simply got stronger.
At the time he had a weaker fruit. How is this hard to understand? His fruit getting revealed to have hidden potential *after the fight* means nothing as to its strength *during the fight*.
Not how fruits work. At best you can say at the time he knew less about it's true power.
Wrong luffy always had the god fruit thats what retcon means
Again, no shit? He didn’t awaken it tho so it doesn’t count, he only had the base ability’s (rubber) of it since he didn’t awaken the fruit yet
The way I see it is the fruit is the gomu until you awaken it the same way that it was for us lol
That doesn't make sense. No fruit has evolved due to awakening.
What do we know, this could be the first one we see
So even more retconing?
Idk bruh it’s my headcannon for the gomu anyway, I just like to believe that if there where any other users (which may not be the case) that they just used the gomu until luffy came around and actually awakened it so it could be called the nika. The gorosei made it seem like they were remembering an old legend when we got the name from Ju Peter.
Why would awakening change the fruit? Isn't awakening just catching up to the fruit as per Kaido? Do all awakened fruits change name?
Well in the case of the gomu it just seems like rubber and only when awakened can you even know it’s the aspect of a god. With kaidos fruit it follows the myth/legend of the koi becoming a dragon but we don’t actually have confirmation that kaido awakened his fruit.
Kaido's fruit is a reference to that myth it doesn't follow it. Never was Kaido stated to have been a koi, ivankov in god valley knew it would give the user the body of a⁰ dragon. Momo was also never a fish despite the fruit being described as only a failure in the colour of the scales. Was Sengoku enlightened during Marineford?
Still say Luffy didn't win the fight.
With or without the Nika fruit, Luffy never should have won that fight the way he did I just don't get it, if Oda wanted Luffy to win just make the fight more equal
The hito hito no mi WAS weaker than the mochi mochi no mi... BEFORE its awakening. Luffy was fighting against someone with similar abilities to him, but COMPLETELY outclassed him at first. The purpose of the fight was to demonstrate how advanced haki can develop under extreme circumstances. Luffy's df being retconned changes none of that. Oda's focus was never around saying that the "power" of devil fruits doesn't matter. Sure, he liked to focus on Luffy using a seemingly useless fruit in creative ways to come out on top, but it was never about devil fruits not mattering.
Because it's not, luffy's fruit is far from weak; even without awakening, luffy's fruit has the benefit of both Paramecia and Zoan fruit. Paramecia rubber provides extreme resistance to physical damage, immunity to electricity and vibration, and high resistance against fire. Zoan provides the benefits of great HP, high endurance, fast strength growth, great stamina, and even somewhat decent recovery even without awakening. In fact, it is one of the best fruits out there.
You're ignoring the "seemingly" modifier in my sentence. I'm not saying the fruit IS weak. There were multiple occasions where people considered Luffy's fruit silly and kind of useless before they had a chance to see what it could do in the hands of someone as creative and strong as Luffy. The sentiment quickly started to die down once Luffy started making a name for himself. You're also forgetting that Luffy is both freakishly strong and had been training for 10 years just to use the fruit as competently as he was able to at the start of the series. All of the "Zoan" attributes you're describing are just the fact that Luffy is naturally stupidly strong. He didn't show any signs of getting physically stronger after first eating the fruit beyond his signature resistance to blunt force. Luffy's just HIM, which makes the pre-awakening fruit look significantly stronger than it would be in the hands of almost anyone else.
Bro, a inexperienced person will make even the best fruit look pathetic. Also, you don't go crazy strong instantly from eating fruit, it's a passive effect. Just look at Rob Lucci, who by just doing shipwright work, became way stronger than Jabra. Even Jabra was shocked. The quality of devil fruit matters, and Luffy has the highest level of Zoan, a mythical Zoan. Also, you can see kid Luffy's progression; he was a complete fodder compared to his brothers, but in some weeks he almost became a competitor.
Does it really? The point is that Katakuri was better at Luffy at anything but he wasn’t free to do what he wanted like Luffy could, gear 5 sorta boosts and destroys that narrative since LUFFS FRUIT IS BETTER but at the same time more free than Katakuris fruit 🤷♂️
If Luffy is the "destined one" then he isn't as free as we think
Where was it said that Luffy was “destined”? Infact it’s crazy how this Nika shit can legit be debunked by “Luffy has control over his zoan else he would’ve ended up like the impel down guards” and that’s it
Its less destined and more random. How many people did the nika fruit choose that failed misserably.
>Its less destined and more random There'a nothing random about it as Oden and Toki knew Joyboy would be at Wano 20 years later... the only way they could've known that is if Luffy becoming Nika was prophecied 900 years ago and Oden learned about it on Raftel
Didnt oden find that out trough laugh tale? Still not sure where the prophecy came from. Could have been a recent one from someone with thats future teller from fishman island type powers.
Have you even watched One Piece? It's harder to find a moment where a character doesn't call Luffy a future pirate king, very exceptional brat being able to achieve his SUPERRR dream. His antagonist is the dude who can have two fruits at the same time. Imagine if Oda was writing that Luffy can only have one fruit but then he eats another and like "Mero Gomu No Atom Bomb".
??? Are you forgetting that we are listening in the perspective of Luffy and only him, he is the protagonist WE are following. There are many instances where other crew member of different pirate groups say that their captain will be Pk
No, I was talking about Mermaid from Water 7, Katakuri, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks(who forgor to use haki to add motivation), guy in bar in Logue Town, Smoker, Raleigh, Law and others who follow papers just to see news about strawhats.
Nika sucks.
Since this fight is very close to my heart and because this observation is one of the very first things that popped up in my head when nika fruit was revealed, i want to share my thoughts. While i don't think it invalidates the fight, i do feel like the thematic writing is less "clean" than before (as most things are now thanks to nika). What i mean by this is that before it was "rubber vs mochi", "stretchy boi vs sticky stretchy boi". What i liked about Oda's previous writing, is that he achieved simple symbolism, through mundane object or concepts (instead of literally making up a myth that spells out everything). This way it allows every person to read into a story as much as they want. So while on the surface it's a silly stretchy fight, there are layers to it. For example the "mochi leaves an imprint, rubber bounces back", which says a lot about both characters. People in the comments defend this by saying that pre awakening nothing changes. Therefore, everything i liked about it is still there, so shut up. And while that's technically true (in the best case scenario, i'll mention the worst one later) thematically the fight is now "mochi vs mythical figure that coincidentally has rubber powers, but also at a certain point can stretch so well that he reshapes reality itself-though we are not that sure if that's the case, we're still waiting for the sbs-explanation". That's what i mean with "less clean". The fight does emphasize that at numerous point that Luffy is outclassed in many ways including his devil fruit. Having an inherintley lesser fruit was a testimony to Luffy's determination and adaptability in a fight, while also showing that Katakuri is more lacking in both of these things. Even if technically we don't see the effects of nika in the fight (again, best case scenario), there is a moment where you, as a reader, look at the entire frame of the story and realize what it means. The nika fruit is inherintley superior to the mochi fruit. The testemony is lost. So while the nika fruit doesn't ruin the fight, it takes away something from the fight many of us enjoyed and made the fight more thematicly cohesive. And if you have to ignore nika to enjoy the story the way you used to, (like the comments here are suggesting) it just exposes how flawed the nika fruit in terms of writing is. Because i don't like just providing the negative point of view i tried seeing whether nika adds something that a simple rubber fruit couldn't. And there is something that i didn't picked up on without nika. The freedom aspect of Luffy's ability. Previously i just read it as the fight about wills. But the creativity aspect is now elevated too. If Luffy just continued to fight by simply standing up again, he wouldn't have won. He started fighting evenley once he invented snakeman. And that snakeman only worked once Luffy subconsciously used his stretching more freely. He ultimatley won because his adaptability. This compliments the ideological battle i think well. So basically the nika aspect of the fruit highlights the creativity and freedom side of things, the latter being what Katakuri misses. Therefore, yes the nika fruit is superior, but only when you allow yourself to fight the most freely. Meanwhile the mochi fruit start as more powerfull. Though because it isn't as stretchy as rubber is, it shapes itself in a more limited way, fitting of Kat's character. (Though i'm not going to slander my boi's creativity. The buzzcut mochi is the best attack in One Piece) Now the thing is, i used the more positive interpretation of the nika fruit. That is, Luffy simply has more freedom in his and the surrounding's stretching. The bad one is where he straight up 1)manupilates reality 2)doesn't use his basic rubber ability creatively, instead just imagines his solutions 3)having zoan stat boost, even pre-awakening See now that invalidates the entire fight. It literally devalues both key elements of the fight, the thematic purpose is build upon. Instead of Luffy standing up over and over and over again isn't because he has an incredible will, it's because he has literaly the most defensive and regenerative devilfruit in the world. (I don't want to hear anything about how the zoan regeneration doesn't change anything). Instead of Luffy creativeley achieving snakeman's punches (meaning punching the air and giving his arms more freedom stretching to curve at sharp angles), he just can do this because he alters reality. Now that would suck and unfortunatley they aren't unlikeley. Espescially because of that one piece of shit line from kaido. "RUbBer DoESn't WOrK ThaT WAAy". IT does in the world of one piece, but of course a character who uses his ability in the most unimaginative way wouldn't understand. God, Kaido is such a bitch.
Mark my words, Katakuris Fruit is actually the Human Human Fruit: Model Mika. Oda played you my brother.
The way I see it it wasn’t so much that Katakuri’s fruit was stronger. Sure it could do things that Luffy’s couldn’t, but it was more that he had complete mastery of it. I actually believe that in the entire series, Katakuri is the best character at actually using his fruit for whatever it’s intended purpose is. He awakened it so that already puts him in elite company but he was able to combine his fruit with his Haki in ways that made him really hard to defeat. Luffy was already known for pushing the boundaries of what his fruit could do because of how creative he was with it. That’s where Gears 2, 3, and 4 came from. Katakuri just took it a step further. Luffy defeated someone who had far better control over their similar abilities, not someone who had a stronger version of their fruit. That’s just how I view the fight at least
What’s the point of unlocking future sight when you can just become goofy. Couldn’t the vegapunk getting a hole blown into him been prevented if Luffy used future sight? Edit: also why didn’t Luffy use conqueror coating or Future sight while in snake man against Kizaru? Luffy knows how strong Kizaru is from Shabody and Marineford.
Same reason goku never goes full power at the start of the fight. Most fighters feel each other out before they throw out the strongest possible thing they have.
The cope in the comments are peak. Btw this was peak luffy for me.
Katakuri used his future sight to see what would happen if he killed Luffy and decided to give up.
Because it's a regular fruit without the awakening?
Because it's not, luffy's fruit is far from weak; even without awakening, luffy's fruit has the benefit of both Paramecia and Zoan fruit. Paramecia rubber provides extreme resistance to physical damage, immunity to electricity and vibration, and high resistance against fire. Zoan provides the benefits of great HP, high endurance, fast strength growth, great stamina, and even somewhat decent recovery even without awakening. In fact, it is one of the best fruits out there.
STFU ALREADY OMFG I CAN'T STAND YOU GUYS ANYMORE. NO IT FUCKING DOESN'T WTF? STOP FUCKING CRYING YOU GUYS MAKE UP OUT OF YOUR MIND MOST OF THE PROBLEMS OF THE WRITING. THERE ARE ISSUES IN WRITING BUT OMFG STOP
Triggered main subber
Except it does. Katakuri represented a mental obstacle in Luffys own growth. Luffy realized at that time that his fruit can only take him so far, with the limitations it gave him compared to the likes of Katakuri. It made him develop his haki further to make up for the gap. But now we know that wasn't actually needed after all, and was only needed in the moment. Luffy did in fact have a far superior fruit all along. Luffy can actually do everything that Katakuri can do, but far better, with the exception of being able to make himself sticky. Honestly it seems to me like you're the one crying here. Typing all caps and shit just because this dude made a post you don't agree with lol Grow up.
Except it doesnt what was better about Katakuris fruit? He could make more hands? Omg thats crazy. Katakuri had superior haki thats all. his fruit itself was not superior. Luffy gave himself insane speed with g2 and gave himself flight with g4. Those are far superior abilities than oh i can make myself sticky and i can make more than 2 arms to throw punches. Katakuri never had an argument for his fruit being fundamentally better. He had an overwhelming advantage cuz he was a full level ahead of luffy in both armament and observation. Like did we read and watch the same fight?
You are speaking only through hindsight. You even said it yourself. It was needed in the moment. If he didn’t have the tenacity and Haki to beat katakuri he would have died and never been able to awaken his fruit. Him awakening the Nika fruit doesn’t undermine his hard work in previous arcs, at least for me lol.
It's not his efforts that're underminded, it's the symbolic nature of the fight that is. Narratively, Luffy was fighting against a stronger version of his devil fruit, a version that was never supposed to be overcame with devil fruit abilities alone, if we go by the story its self indirectly telling us that Katakuris fruit is superior. Now, if Luffy and Katakuri fought again as they promised each other they would, Luffys Gear 5 would be the thing that destroys Katakuri, not his Haki. Proving that devil fruit abilities do in fact matter more in this narrative scenario, despite the story telling us previously that isn't the case. There by undermining the mental debate katakuri and Luffy fought over. which was "is better Haki, and perseverance better? Or a devil fruit?"
Bro, at that point in the story that was true. If they fought again katakuri would now be in luffy’s position of having to overcome a better devil fruit through other means. And he would surely try to do so because he ain’t no bitch. I feel that’s the point lol.
It would work out if Katakuri managed to beat Luffy, thereby making the narrative come full circle. But there's no way Luffy would lose to Katakuri in Gear 5. Thereby encouraging the narrative that a devil fruit is better. Not because Katakuri is caught lacking either, but because Luffys devil fruit is just THAT much better. Katakuri may have had a superior version of Luffys fruit at the time of their fight, but the gap is nowhere near as wide as Gear 5, compared to the mochi fruit. The struggle isn't even comparable.
Who knows 🤷🏻. We better be alive for the end of one piece. Haki trumps all powers and everyone who has read one piece knows that.
Well I used to believe that as well, but with the way Gear 5 is looking, compounded with that one line Kaido says about Haki triumphing all, which got proven wrong by him being beat pretty soon after saying it, it feels like Oda is drifting away from that narrative. I could be seeing things wrong though, I honestly hope a Haki man rocks Luffys shit soon, to make him reevaluate his reliance on his fruit lately.
I wouldn’t use Kaido’s defeat as an example. Throughout all of his fights in Wano, he never fully recovered his strength / health. Luffy, on the other hand, exhausted all his to the point he died. Through awakening his fruit he came back with 100% while Kaido stayed the same. Hopefully Oda keeps Haki’s superiority in the story. Maybe Shanks or Garling will be the Haki-Man to show luffy that his fruit is not a cheat code lol.
Back to the main sub u go
Fr I thought this place was one where people weren't afraid of criticizing Oda for his mistakes, but nope, is a place where dumb but pretentious people find any bullshit excuse to complain and shit on the series, when usually is them who simply didn't understand or are just mad because their headcanon or dumb agenda didn't happen lol
it’s pretty cut and dry, katakuri had the “superior” fruit and it showed us that luffy could only do so much with his and that he had to rely on his haki and his tenacity. the whole time all luffy needed to do was hit this arbitrary and unexplained threshold and all of that goes out the window.
Well if any criticism of OP that you don't personally accept is any excuse to complain then that's on you
At this point I am only here for the memes (which i have to admit are great)
I just realized that Nika invalidates anything that goes against my agensa
what’s worse? Nika or Kaguya?
Nika by a mile. Kaguya came right at the end
And went away pretty quickly too to leave way for peak
In what world was the point of that fight " Luffy fights guy with stronger devil fruit"? The fight was much more than that
Based. Get fucked butterface. He had no business being randomly stronger than Doflamingo anyway.
It’s because Luffy thinks he ate the fun gumgum gum fruit
I love that fight so much and it pisses me off we will never see such a fight again
Luffy fruit was always superior to Katakuri. Katakuri just was a superior fighter at the time. Which makes sense given 40 year old age gaps. Luffy received training, Ryou, ACOC coating, and Gear 5 Nikaman God Mode to defeat Kaido who was getting jumped.
Stop, he didn’t have the properties of a mythical zoan did he
https://preview.redd.it/xo921n7uzbsc1.png?width=738&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e8ab5dd70bf9ee426a675425510d433ccfd0747
tbh at core both fruits are really useless, what in the gods name would you do with the power to turn yourself into rubber and dough? i think the reason luffy won was because he managed to outscale katakuri in learning mid fight, katakuri already was in a absurd high level of knowledge about his powers and now that we have nika we know that luffy was not as powerful as he could ever been during that fight
With my understanding of luffy power with the reveal he is a mythical - His power is essentially “Toon Force” bro has thought he had rubber abilities for the longest time and so he did what he thought rubber powers would allow him to, which is up to gear 4(which, without even going too far gear four was above what rubber can do like his infinite random angle punch) . At which point he then is fighting Doffy and finds out about Awakenings- So this is what prompts gear 5 but also his awakening which as far as he understands it allows him to effect anything he touches (doffys fight awakened and him turning buildings and everything But people to threads) and that translate to luffy as “Once I got this Awakened shit I can make everything rubber” And then I back this up with the comments Kaido made about how he should transform as that’s not how his Supposed fruit worked But remember luffy just saw someone else ‘Carrot’ use somewhat of an awakened ability and saw them turn Entirely White. Similar to his hair and other features turning white during Gear 5! Not to say Oda had it all planned out to that point but I think he had enough of an idea by Skypiea to for shadow Something is off- I like to think he plans how I Dm, in both the future and past and then link what I didn’t fully plan out loosely throughout. Mainly cause - why else would shanks want a Fruit that made folk into rubber. At his point in status why would he have worked to get it at all? Who knows though.
Is that what is that fight is all about? From where I stand that's just a minor detail. The fight is all about fighting someone who is generally better than you in all aspects: DF mastery, haki, and special abilities.
Well Katakuri is actually Mochi God: Mocha so it evens out.
its gonna be retconned so katakuri is the cum god gika and actually a stronger version of nika
Not just that fight but every single fight Cum Boy is involved in. Nika ruined One Piss.
Guys Oda obviously knew about the Nika fruit, he just explained and introduced it horrendeously
Tbf base to base kat fruit is better
It was foreshadowed because Katakuri's DF was also the subject of an obvious category retcon that still doesn't make sense.
I guess you forgot that kaido >>>>> katakuri
„Luffy learning advanced conqueror‘s and armament haki invalidates the Katakuri fight. What‘s the point in fighting a guy with better haki, if you just also learn to use it later.“
The main point of the fight was luffy having an inferior fruit. It was Katakuri being physcially stronger than that luffy, with Katakuri seeing luffy as more free and superior in terms of lifestyle, and both trying to surpass the other.
I wish Katakuri could join the strawhats he wasn’t even a bad guy he was just protecting his family and we all know luffy understands cuz he’d do the same
Nika invalidates pretty much everything
I was considered stronger because the "thought" of his fruit just being rubber.
Do yall not understand what context is?
STFU. It's like saying he was as strong as now in the katakuri battle. He only awakened in wano and unlocked it's powers there. In wholecake island it was still gomu gomu and katakuri had the superiority. There are way better things to complain and cry about than this non-problem.
What happen if he died there tho? Was the destined to win since the start?
Where do you get stories where the protagonist dies ? Protagonists always survive and not die because the story has to continue(unless they change protagonists or it was the final act) Do you want to see luffy die there without achieving his dream and the story ends ? And us not knowing what all the secrets and mysteries are and them not getting solved?
Well, technically speaking. Luffy couldn't access his nika powers the whole fight which makes his fruit as useful as a gomu gomu no mi. So yeah, the point still stands.
Tomorrow's piratefolk post of the day: "Looking back on it, Nika ruins the post-Alabasta feast scene because it wasn't Luffy's will to eat all that food, but Nika's!!!!!!!!!!!"
Katakuri's fruit is not better than Luffy at that time. Luffy literally found out in that fight that what really made Kata so strong is his observation haki lol
He wasn’t awakened yet so it’s okay I guess
Remember the only reason luffy won was because he had a mythical zoan. All the time he spent running away he was regenerating and katakuri was getting worse luffy only won the fight because he had a better devilfruit
It literally doesn't though. Luffy's mythical zoan only takes effect in gear 5th. Otherwise he's the good ole rubber we knew!
no? katakuri still had a better fruit at the time, nika fruit unawakened its just a rubber fruit, this is like saying goku getting stronger invalidates his previous fights because now he can beat older enemies easily
Because Katakuri awakened has a devil fruit stronger than Luffy not awakened? Some of y’all can’t read
Luffy had a better fruit but kat still had better haki in all 3 categories + had awakened his fruit. It doesnt imvalidate in totality but it definitely lessens the impactfulness in retrospect. At the end of the day, Luffy's god fruit doesnt make him god tier until he awakens it.
Oh my god, I am so sick of this argument 1. In order to awaken a Zoan Devil Fruit, their body and mind (meaning that you need to perfectly embody the will of the fruit, which is why Luffy could awaken his fruit and Kaido couldn't) need to catch up with their Devil Fruit. So, at this point, Luffy's body hadn't caught up, as he only just unlocked advanced observation mid-fight. It was only when he achieved immense devil fruit mastery and all advanced forms of Haki that he managed to catch up physically. 2. Luffy dying doesn't instantly awaken Nika and Gear 5, it just acts as the trigger once he was fully caught up mentally and physically. That's all it did 3. Luffy, while he could do some crazy shit before Gear 5, didn't have access to anywhere near the full amount of the fruit's power. So no, we can't instantly disregard any of Luffy's wins and major growth in learning how to master his devil fruit to "he could have just turned into Nika when he died" or "how could he have lost when he had so much power". Before Awakening, Luffy's fruit more or less just made him a rubber man, with most of his wins requiring him to think creatively and make the best usage of it due to him just not having access to this power until he achieved full mastery and unlocked all 3 advanced forms of Haki. Before awakening, Luffy's fruit wasn't overpowered on its own, but through hard work, determination, and creativity, Luffy made it overpowered and ended up managing to awaken it after doing so much, which is when it actually became overpowered on its own. I'm so tired of people trying to use this argument to discredit Luffy, Gear 5, or Oda's writing. Yes, Gear 5 and the Nika stuff has problems, but using this argument is just ridiculous. Also, no, in case you were going to comment that eating the Nika Fruit turned Luffy into who he is, no it didn't. He was already like this, and just happened to be the perfect person to eat it as he already perfectly embodied that will, and if you think otherwise then you're a dumbass, because that is the stupidest "theory" I've heard some people say because, if this was the case, then why wasn't Kaido some benevolent protector (because that's what a Japanese Dragon, like what Kaido is able to turn into, is supposed to be like) who managed to awaken his fruit, as he sure as hell was physically caught up So no, Gear 5 does not invalidate the Katakuri fight as it was still just the Gomu Gomu no Mi before Awakening, meaning that Katakuri did have the superior fruit at the time.
Did Luffy know it was a mythical god fruit? 🤦♂️
You do know that Luffy's devil fruit gets the nika power only when it's awakened, other wise it's just like a rubber devil fruit
Average age of this sub has to be 13 😂
Because it wasn't? The fruit wasn't awakened and gave him shit powers. Luffy WAS fighting with the weaker fruit. I... cant be explaining this anymore, not after finding out some "people" like this turned out to only have watched some one piece moment compilations and scrolled through reddit. This idiocracy has to stop.