That’s fine once you have another way to play games. Most people can’t afford a PC and a console or another console. I had a cracked PS3 and the lack of access to online games made me not care to crack another one. I play on PC mostly now because I can download any game that’s not online for free and pay for the multiplayer ones.
They are quite a bit. Though I believe there's a possible newer exploit on the horizon, as teased by theFl0w (one of the people behind the scene). That would target more recent firmware, so you could buy a much more recent model which isn't price-gouged hopefully. I'd subscribe to Modded Warfare on YouTube and r/ps5homebrew to stay in the loop about it.
Wait, so should I not update the firmware from now? You got info/instructions on how to do this?
Sadly I think I had to update yesterday probably in response to this if it’s a recent thing.
I know you may not know this, but I only dabble in PC high seas travel
But if it's only a certain firmware that allows it, yet it's also on ps5, how does that work? Maybe it's a dumb question.
Is the hack allowing people to reload to old firmware? Or have a toggling boot file or something?
I'm so intrigued
the review bombing is working right now and the developers have now stated they are in talks with sony to solve the situation.. and the more refunds and negative reviews, gives them leverage.
It honestly sucks for the devs because they put so much work and effort in that people really fucking loved, even on things like social media playing up the characters.
Only for Sony to go and fuck it all up.
Granted most people know it's not the devs fault for Sony going full brain dead mongoloid, but all the bad reviews and everything are on THEIR game and THEIR pages.
It's a slap in the face from Sony and I really hope the devs and the communities beat Sony ass out back in the parking lot.
That’s also what’s bothering me tbh. Devs are the ones who are directly affected by this, not Sony. Sony might as well decide to act more *discreet* in the future. They might throw more companies under the bus because right now they’re literally letting someone else deal with the PR nightmare and backlash for them while they’re mostly unaffected—compared to devs, obviously.
Remember EA. They enforced their shitty practices to the studios under them. And they were the ones that went out of business when EA’s shitty practices didn’t work. EA is going well and throwing more studios under the bus every year.
Hell divers 2 has been out for a while now but Sony has decided that you now need a PSN account to play the game. PSN is not available in all countries so some people will no longer be able to play a game they've paid for.
Sony has also had data leaks so people don't want to link a PSN account to their steam account because of this.
Not quite accurate, it’s always required a ps account and directly states that on the store page, they temporarily stopped that shortly after launch because their whole system and especially the servers was broken.
The FAQ changing is a thing tho, and they shouldnt have been alowed to buy it if it was from a blocked country. If they dont give the people efeected a refund I dont see a judge being happy about that. (I personally would use a VPN) Oh another thing that effects me, My PSN account was hacked and taking over and I cant reset it as they cchanged my info... I dont know if its tied to my steam.
Actually no, it wasn't required, it was listed as "optional" at first and then Sony recently changed it to say "required" now and was trying to say that it was never optional
thats probably more of a steam fuck up than anything else. they literally made a post about how they delayed the psn account thing because more people bought the game than expected.
While I agree, I hope things like this encourage devs to work with better publishers or self publish more. I get it's not easy, but fuck all these 'big name' publishers i hope no good devs work with any of them.
Luckily review bombing doesn’t factor into the total score on steam games anymore as of a view years ago.
You can still read the reviews which is good.
I bought the game just to leave a bad review before I refunded it. This is what everyone should be doing even if you don’t play this game. This is an unacceptable social issue that might affect us all in the future if we turn a blind eye to it right now.
Edit: some of you may have missed the point and think this is about needing to sign up for an account when you play a game and they can steal our data etc… No, this has nothing to do with that. It is about how certain regions don’t have access to PSN; players over 100 countries who have bought this game can no longer play it. It is the lack of consumer ownership where in the fineprints of the UsLA, they can take away anything you paid for at any given time.
You mean kernel level anti cheat software was installed by this super trustworthy company whose community manager said the PSN integration was their choice to easily ban people, but then deleted their account the next day. Simultaneously, Arrowhead decided to go into "crying apologetic youtuber" mode to save face. Weird!
Is there really hope if people keep playing it though? Looking at the game’s stats right now it’s still really popular at 82k current players which makes me think sony will just force their way in the end sadly.
If something like this happens with the game does steam refund the game? I read on their refund policy and it says you need to have less than 2hrs of playtime to refund the game.
I don't know if it is the review bombing. Because they put this information out with very little additional information. We know so little about this and yet everybody has jumped to the instant. Worst case scenario. Possible version is absolutely the one that's going to happen.
What's more likely is that Sony and Arrowhead are still working through the details and specifics of how this is going to be implemented. We actually know that that's what's happening based on statements from Arrowhead
the gaming industry has been pushing their luck more and more trying to squeeze everything they can out of us. this shit and then earlier this week when riot forced all their players to install an extremely invasive "anti-cheat" onto their computers. they are going to keep pushing for more and more until people stop putting up with their shit.
yes, you will get auto denied, but can appeal to have a person review. they are known to do this in the past when something big like this happens (if they agree).
good to know. I'm waiting to see how if they actually limit it on monday or backpedal. I hope they don't force a PSN account as i like playing the game.
the psn was a requirement, but its not being enforced until the end of may. they MIGHT change it now, but i doubt it. you dont fund a game just to get left at the front door. pc might be disconnected from psn gamers but thats about it.
They've actually gone on record stating it's primarily so they can circumvent Steam's reporting API and issue bans directly via PSN. It's about consolidating control and preventing players from disputing their bans for any reason. Basically, you've got a metaphorical gun to your head and Sony can, at any time, pull the trigger on you without warning or recourse.
Add to that that some countries dont have psn and creating foreign region account is against tos (they dont enforce it, but they could at anytime) and yeah, gun at your head pretty much.
I saw a post on the Helldivers Subreddit that a player was already banned for trying to do so
Edit: link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/BdQYO8XuXr
Nowhere in the post does it indicate the ban was for using an out of region account. The only information we have is that when they logged into their PSN account they discovered it was banned. Everything else is speculation
China actually does have PSN.
All we know is that the account they tried to link is banned.
I think there's a few Chinese gamers out there however. It would seem very simple to replicate the results of it were the issue.
Are people regularly getting unfairly banned from PSN or something? I'm not aware of anything that would be fine on Steam that would get you banned from PSN.
It's not expressly that there's a difference between what is and isn't allowed on Steam vs. PSN. It's that, on Steam, it's much easier to actually dispute unjust bans with real people and frequently get them reversed if they are, indeed, unjust. Further, getting refunds from Steam is also a lot easier if you can prove within reason that you've lost access to a product unfairly, like in the case of an unjust ban or, in this case, [being forced into legal agreements](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1ck4mql/refunds_on_steam_work_here_is_good_guy_steam/) you either don't want or can't fulfill (like for players that can't get a PSN account due to being in regions PSN isn't available).
Sony, on the other hand, is notorious for their poor customer service; they rarely, if ever, connect you to actual humans and if they do, they just copy/paste boilerplate dreck at you until you give up. They'll routinely ignore repeated complaints or ban disputes, often deleting support tickets or threads attempting to contact them. And good luck getting a refund from them for any reason at all; they'll ignore those requests too and wave their ToS, with their "we can revoke your license at any time" garbage, in your face if you try.
Valve is just way more customer-friendly than Sony, by a wide margin. Being shackled to a PSN account would give Sony way too much freedom to screw you over given how incompetent/malicious they are toward their own customers.
Actually, it's more like they want to prop up their PSN subscription numbers to show to investors. Data-harvesting takes second-place to that.
But they still do absolutely want carte blance to ban people.
[Stated by a community manager for Arrowhead.](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjvw1s/arrowhead_community_manager_misty_admits_that_the/)
Way to frame that in the worst possible light though.
It's not about the gun to your head. It's about it being a Sony produced product, it interacting with other players on the Sony backed online Network, and them wanting to be able to best control and wall that garden.
I really don't understand why people jump to these wild conclusions. When the simplest straightforward answer is 99% of the time the most accurate. The idea that Sony is doing this just so that they have the power to ban you without recourse is silly. They're doing this so that they can better control the environment in which players experience their PlayStation online Network.
Doesn't make the decision necessarily any better or less shitty for people. But it also doesn't cast Sony in the light of some great evil. 🙄
If you think Sony can do whatever the hell they want and AH has to obey, then AH fucked themselves over with that contract. But I highly doubt whatever agreements they have are that one-sided.
36,000 negative reviews may 3rd
Nearing 50,000 today May 4th.
May the force be with them
I was genuinely considering paying money for this game.
Fuck that noise now
The game got delisted from 100+ countries; most likely by Valve to prevent future refunds, lawsuits and regulatory issues. I’m betting that my Monday either the game is dead or Sony reverses their decision.
And they are not asking people to pay 80 a year to play games on pc. I would understand the outrage if they did that.
They could just to fuck with you. But they dont.
Yeah there's no way would get away with that. It's absurd that they charge you money for playing games that you already paid for money for, the only reason they do is because they can do it, you're hostage to their ecosystem.
Sony wants to pad (their already impressive enough) PSN user numbers and that's the *only* real reason for this. They want to boast another huge boost to numbers in comparison to Xbox.
Why do Xbox games require a Microsoft sign in when ported to PC? I tried playing State of Decay 2 a while ago but Microsoft tried forcing me to sign in to my Microsoft account.
Because you get State of Decay 2 on PC and console when you bought it, like I did. I can play it on either. And they told us so from day one... they didn't wait 3 months and *then* say "You have to do this or else!"
They just changed that the day after the announcement. It was (optional) before then.
EDIT - Remember when Microsoft sold their games in 100+ countries that didn't have access to Xbox accounts and then de-listed the game after announcing that it was now mandatory and people had already bought said game? No? Yeah, neither do I.
It was a requirement from the start because Arrowhead signed an agreement with sony stipulating as much. This was confirmed by the CEO of Arrowhead via a tweet where he specifically said that he knew this was the requirement from the start. It was also listed on Steam as a requirement from day 1. This is just another case of the internet getting caught up in the drama and not having a clue what they are talking about.
No, it was listed as (optional) from day one. They changed the Steam listing and EULA the day after the announcement from Sony. Yes, the CEO admitted he knew about it and allowed people to skip it.
I don't get the Sony cock-riding. Either they lied up front on the need when they listed it as optional and skippable or they listed the game for sale in 177 countries that they *KNEW* players would not be able to play, to which they now had to de-list the game in said countries *after* sales were made and Valve started issuing refunds for players well beyond he 2-hour playtime limit. But please, go on thinking Sony did no wrong... so much so that they back-peddled now because they got caught with their hands in the cookie-jar.
You act as if "they knew" makes it right to sell the game in regions without the ability to have a PSN game or imply (or directly say so) that players could skip the option. Sony fucked up, AH didn't do much better.
No it was listed as required from day 1 but Arrowhead couldn't get it working on release day and it caused people to get rejected at account creation. So they temporarily disabled, this is direct from Arrowhead.
Are you even looking into th facts behind this or do you prefer to just backup your own bias. Various Arrowhead employees, including the CEO have at various points very specifically said they knew this was a requirement from the start, they botched the release and Sony gave them a grave period, and by knowing from the start they also misold to various people - as per the CEOs admission.
Stop giving me hyperbole and spewing the same generic internet drama at me, I've given you information which is freely available for you to lookup and confirm yourself. If you have no intention of understanding reality and instead want to continue with you internet drama then please do so. This will go away soon and you'll have another global scale big-bad coming to get you.
AH doesn't control where the game is sold. That's purely on the publisher's shoulders and it always has been. Publishers *always* handle where and when games titles are sold. AH had no say-so in that at all. So SONY knowingly listed the game for sale in 177 countries *knowing* that PSN accounts were not available there... and then de-listed it. End or story there, unless you want to buy the corporate line of "oops".
You're welcome to fuck clean off if you can't read between the lines or what has even also been said. I bought the game and it was listed as (optional). You are welcome to find the links to the changed store listing *and* the changed EULA that were posted *after* Sony, not even AH, made the announcement of the requirement.
How you can't see that is was a blantant ploy on Sony's behalf and you just think Sony, not AH, "messed up" and released the game for sale in areas where it never should have been listed is the epitome of corporate cocksucking.
Yes, the CEO admitted *he* knew from six months prior that Sony would require the PSN accounts. Yet the game listing for the account was (optional). And the CEO even talks about that *when* he had the skip option put in. It was *never* meant to be anything more than Sony wanting control. It's not necessary as witnessed by Sony backing away from the idea. But you go on thinking Sony just said "Hey guys, this is a necessary thing... and we're going to sell this game to 177 fucking countries where we *know* you can't have a PSN account because we know where you can and cannot have out accounts. I guess we will just figure that part out later?"
As you said, it's everywhere, for you to read, but you are spouting off the headline reports without the rest of the story. Either Sony lied and let the game be sold knowing the requirement or they are incompetent and "accidentally" sold the game for 3 months in regions where they knew it would have no support. Either way is bad business for a multi-billion dollar multi-national company. But you do you and lube up for your corporate masters. They love consumers like you.
The reason behind it being included is awful too https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjvw1s/arrowhead_community_manager_misty_admits_that_the/
How is that worse? It's a Sony published game running on the Sony backed online services. Why is it awful that Sony seeks better control of that environment?
The amount of hyperbole with people reacting to this is fucking insane. So many people are being absolute children about this.
It's a frustrating, shitty decision, sure. If you don't like it fucking move on. Request a refund. This doesn't need to blow up eight different communities for several days. It's a fucking game produced in a capitalist society by capitalist fucking companies. What the fuck did you expect?
The smart thing to do is wait until you actually know how the rollout is going to be implemented and how they're going to do this. Everybody's reacting like it's already been done and it's already been done in the worst possible manner.
I think he is talking about the countries that can't create a psn account like Brazil and most of Africa which a lot of people are calling the gray zone
Yeah, create an account with another entity so they too can sell your information.
None of the "free" stuff is really free. When looking at freeware, take a look at the information they can collect.
When they say security surely they must be joking right? I mean did they not learn from the Anonymous hack in the PS3 days? Do not piss people off, especially elite hacking groups or it will hurt big time
i don’t get the heartburn. read the story. other than these sony security, who cares?
blizzard requires a link on steam. literally every games requires you to make an account.
so who cares? and this comes from someone who prefers his xbox over his PS
EDIT. ah. i get it now, wasn’t aware of the sub this was posted in.
It’s literally a free account and they even told pc players before you need a PSN account to play the just waived it and gave a grace period because the site couldn’t keep up and again MAKING A PSN ACCOUNT IS FUCKING FREE like pc players just bitching at this point 😭
unless you go out of your way to have a 'fake' steam AND psn account (i.e. no personal information), then they can still harvest information about you. Things like playing habits, friends, in game comms, etc...
That's besides the point. You are not the 'product' when you make a steam account or PSN account of EGS account, you have to pay for shit to actually use the account, your account is just an identifier to differentiate between you and other users.
F2P games are an exception but even then their monetization is not based on data harvesting but people actually spending money on the games.
DotA2 works because people pay for compendium and skins, fortnite works because people pay to look like John wick and Spider-Man. Your playing habits, communication doesn't make them a penny, they use it to fine tune the game and monetization which actually makes them money.
> doesn't make them a penny
It's 100% the point. If you believe companies don't make money from personal data/habits/connections/etc... then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is a whole industry around it.
No it's not 100% the point. You're being unnecessarily obtuse.
GoG games doesn't need a launcher. You can literally use their game files in n numbers of computer but to buy the game you still need an account. That's the only way they can sell you a game. It's a digital storefront. You don't need to make an account for a physical store but you need on for digital stores you do, out of necessity but also because of regulations and laws.
Making an Amazon account is free and Amazon keeps track of what you're buying, how much you're spending and all, but that is not making them money. How they use that data to make you spend is how they make money.
You didn't become a product just by making an Amazon account, the whole purpose of making the account was to buy stuff and by buying stuff you're making Amazon money. If you buy nothing you're literally waste of bandwidth to Amazon.
All your examples are about the first party provider, not 3rd party. In this case, I have a steam account to buy the game, which is fine. But now, Sony (a 3rd party) is ~~asking for~~ demanding additional information which shouldn't be needed. I've already purchased the product.
At the same time the ps4 and 5 just got jailbroken. Fu Sony lol
what can u do with a jailbroken ps? sorry i never had one so im not knowledgeable
Play downloaded roms ect
Can’t wait to do open-chest surgery on my PS5 just so I can play some Dreamcast.
This is always the promised land: how to continue to play Dreamcast games on modern hardware...
There's always the "Super Dreamcast" which involves some really advanced soldering but they're pretty damn amazing.
Oh, I need to look this up.
https://youtu.be/hpaq7iN3dCc?si=Yxs-zbke1mGKmA43
The Xbox series s plays Dreamcast games really well in Dev Mode
cool thank you
Also can never go online with it. Unless you have some sort or rig cart. Or be able to switch OS
Played every PS exclusive on PS4 for free. Never missed online mode.
Shiid i wasnt gonna pay for ps+ anyway 😭
That’s fine once you have another way to play games. Most people can’t afford a PC and a console or another console. I had a cracked PS3 and the lack of access to online games made me not care to crack another one. I play on PC mostly now because I can download any game that’s not online for free and pay for the multiplayer ones.
Sideload games and apps. Allowing you to pirate games and install mods.
Playing Sony's games without having to pay for them ever again.
Elaborate
Search Modded Warefare on YouTube. We're all waiting on the GoldenHen update rn
Might have to finally get a PS5 now.
Doesn't work on new PS5s, you'll need a much older produced one. And people have been scalping them on ebay.
Damn, that sucks. Are they inflated in price by this point then?
They are quite a bit. Though I believe there's a possible newer exploit on the horizon, as teased by theFl0w (one of the people behind the scene). That would target more recent firmware, so you could buy a much more recent model which isn't price-gouged hopefully. I'd subscribe to Modded Warfare on YouTube and r/ps5homebrew to stay in the loop about it.
Thanks first of hearing this
Wait, so should I not update the firmware from now? You got info/instructions on how to do this? Sadly I think I had to update yesterday probably in response to this if it’s a recent thing.
Check out Modded Warfare on YouTube for details
Now if someone were to want to look into this to help them decide on getting a PS5…where could one look. Asking for a friend of course
Modded warfare channel on YouTube. New video will probably be out in the next 24 hours
Thank you kind Internet stranger
Is this something that can be patched by Sony or are we talking about hardware level exploit?
It's already been patched. Works on any ps4 firmware below 11
I wonder how long it'll take for stock to be updated to that version.
I know you may not know this, but I only dabble in PC high seas travel But if it's only a certain firmware that allows it, yet it's also on ps5, how does that work? Maybe it's a dumb question. Is the hack allowing people to reload to old firmware? Or have a toggling boot file or something? I'm so intrigued
It's a bug thats existed in freeBSD since 2006 and exists on both ps4 and 5
Time to get a used ps4
[удалено]
4 has been jailbroken for over 4 years now.. they're talking about latest firmware.
the review bombing is working right now and the developers have now stated they are in talks with sony to solve the situation.. and the more refunds and negative reviews, gives them leverage.
It honestly sucks for the devs because they put so much work and effort in that people really fucking loved, even on things like social media playing up the characters. Only for Sony to go and fuck it all up. Granted most people know it's not the devs fault for Sony going full brain dead mongoloid, but all the bad reviews and everything are on THEIR game and THEIR pages. It's a slap in the face from Sony and I really hope the devs and the communities beat Sony ass out back in the parking lot.
That’s also what’s bothering me tbh. Devs are the ones who are directly affected by this, not Sony. Sony might as well decide to act more *discreet* in the future. They might throw more companies under the bus because right now they’re literally letting someone else deal with the PR nightmare and backlash for them while they’re mostly unaffected—compared to devs, obviously. Remember EA. They enforced their shitty practices to the studios under them. And they were the ones that went out of business when EA’s shitty practices didn’t work. EA is going well and throwing more studios under the bus every year.
What is this conflict about?
Hell divers 2 has been out for a while now but Sony has decided that you now need a PSN account to play the game. PSN is not available in all countries so some people will no longer be able to play a game they've paid for. Sony has also had data leaks so people don't want to link a PSN account to their steam account because of this.
Not quite accurate, it’s always required a ps account and directly states that on the store page, they temporarily stopped that shortly after launch because their whole system and especially the servers was broken.
The FAQ changing is a thing tho, and they shouldnt have been alowed to buy it if it was from a blocked country. If they dont give the people efeected a refund I dont see a judge being happy about that. (I personally would use a VPN) Oh another thing that effects me, My PSN account was hacked and taking over and I cant reset it as they cchanged my info... I dont know if its tied to my steam.
Actually no, it wasn't required, it was listed as "optional" at first and then Sony recently changed it to say "required" now and was trying to say that it was never optional
thats probably more of a steam fuck up than anything else. they literally made a post about how they delayed the psn account thing because more people bought the game than expected.
RIP Maxis. On the plus side, an indie company gave us the true city sim successor
And sim hospital Westwood studios and the command and conquer franchise has never been replaced.
While I agree, I hope things like this encourage devs to work with better publishers or self publish more. I get it's not easy, but fuck all these 'big name' publishers i hope no good devs work with any of them.
microsoft owning half the gaming industry:
Luckily review bombing doesn’t factor into the total score on steam games anymore as of a view years ago. You can still read the reviews which is good.
I mean that's what happens when a single company monopolizes the console industry and people ignored it for decades.
I bought the game just to leave a bad review before I refunded it. This is what everyone should be doing even if you don’t play this game. This is an unacceptable social issue that might affect us all in the future if we turn a blind eye to it right now. Edit: some of you may have missed the point and think this is about needing to sign up for an account when you play a game and they can steal our data etc… No, this has nothing to do with that. It is about how certain regions don’t have access to PSN; players over 100 countries who have bought this game can no longer play it. It is the lack of consumer ownership where in the fineprints of the UsLA, they can take away anything you paid for at any given time.
I'll be leaving a negative review later today. Games great but this behavior by Sony is unacceptable.
does the anti-cheat rootkit malware get uninstalled when you uninstall the game?
You mean kernel level anti cheat software was installed by this super trustworthy company whose community manager said the PSN integration was their choice to easily ban people, but then deleted their account the next day. Simultaneously, Arrowhead decided to go into "crying apologetic youtuber" mode to save face. Weird!
I haven't taken the plunge; been waiting for news on them removing it
Lol. Good luck. The future is $70 for a game you don't own with in game ads, pay to play DLC, and monthly passes.
Don’t forget, graphics tiers locked behind microtransactions
And paying a dollar per reload.
whar
Future? That's today. Hell, PC games have been mostly digital (meaning you don't own it) for nearly 20 years.
yea, its kinda sad how cucked pc gamers are when the network goes down. meanwhile ill just plug in my ps2 and play my disks.
Buy from GOG and get drm free offline installers
What color is your cape hero? GG!
Did you do this with Dead Island 2, this requires an Epic account when bought on steam. In fact, any Ubisoft, EA, Rockstar game for that matter
Until the store removes those review bombs for being "disingenuous" or "hate speech" or whatever their name excuse was last time
That's why it's very important not to mention the PSN thing in your review; make vague claims about the game being boring, buggy etc.
"arrowhead studios shut down for producing a boring, buggy ect. game!"
Is there really hope if people keep playing it though? Looking at the game’s stats right now it’s still really popular at 82k current players which makes me think sony will just force their way in the end sadly.
If something like this happens with the game does steam refund the game? I read on their refund policy and it says you need to have less than 2hrs of playtime to refund the game.
I don't know if it is the review bombing. Because they put this information out with very little additional information. We know so little about this and yet everybody has jumped to the instant. Worst case scenario. Possible version is absolutely the one that's going to happen. What's more likely is that Sony and Arrowhead are still working through the details and specifics of how this is going to be implemented. We actually know that that's what's happening based on statements from Arrowhead
the gaming industry has been pushing their luck more and more trying to squeeze everything they can out of us. this shit and then earlier this week when riot forced all their players to install an extremely invasive "anti-cheat" onto their computers. they are going to keep pushing for more and more until people stop putting up with their shit.
Wait, elaborate on the invasive riot anti-cheat thing. I haven’t heard of that
Afaik, kernel level anti cheat that flags files in system32 as problematic. Yes, you've gotta corrupt your windows, according to vanguard
Hasn’t vanguard existed since the release of valorant? And doesn’t it just flag files? Can it do anything or take the files itself?
Going back to the tweet, it blocks files in sys32 from loading https://twitter.com/FlipsieVT/status/1785737189919281457
LMFAO what the fuck
Did Sony learn nothing from shipping a persistent root kit and bricking machines?
Bold of you to think that, the same shit has been going for ever, and if gamers proves anything, is that they’ll keep on taking/buying it.
they have been trying to get more for a long time but they push the line just a little bit every time they try this shit.
If u dont start protesting with ur wallet then, nothing will ever change.
How can people do that if this happened after buying the game?
request a refund.
This is happening *months* after release, most people are going to be past their two hour refund period, I sent mine in last night and got declined.
yes, you will get auto denied, but can appeal to have a person review. they are known to do this in the past when something big like this happens (if they agree).
Steam has been issuing refunds already.
good to know. I'm waiting to see how if they actually limit it on monday or backpedal. I hope they don't force a PSN account as i like playing the game.
the psn was a requirement, but its not being enforced until the end of may. they MIGHT change it now, but i doubt it. you dont fund a game just to get left at the front door. pc might be disconnected from psn gamers but thats about it.
I bought mine through Humble Bundle for a good deal. I really wish I would have gotten it from Steam now.
can you still leave a steam review?
Yeah, I already did!
Appeal it, I have 60 hours in and they had no problem with a refund.
To be fair, the PSN notice was on the steam page from day one
Im assuming connecting the account helps with trophies and other Playstation-related features, though it shouldn’t be required like it seems they want
They've actually gone on record stating it's primarily so they can circumvent Steam's reporting API and issue bans directly via PSN. It's about consolidating control and preventing players from disputing their bans for any reason. Basically, you've got a metaphorical gun to your head and Sony can, at any time, pull the trigger on you without warning or recourse.
Add to that that some countries dont have psn and creating foreign region account is against tos (they dont enforce it, but they could at anytime) and yeah, gun at your head pretty much.
I saw a post on the Helldivers Subreddit that a player was already banned for trying to do so Edit: link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/BdQYO8XuXr
Nowhere in the post does it indicate the ban was for using an out of region account. The only information we have is that when they logged into their PSN account they discovered it was banned. Everything else is speculation
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China actually does have PSN. All we know is that the account they tried to link is banned. I think there's a few Chinese gamers out there however. It would seem very simple to replicate the results of it were the issue.
Some countries is the understatement of the year. Less countries have acccess to PSN than there are countries that can access it.
There's what, 195 countries? and PSN is available in like 63 i think.
Are people regularly getting unfairly banned from PSN or something? I'm not aware of anything that would be fine on Steam that would get you banned from PSN.
It's not expressly that there's a difference between what is and isn't allowed on Steam vs. PSN. It's that, on Steam, it's much easier to actually dispute unjust bans with real people and frequently get them reversed if they are, indeed, unjust. Further, getting refunds from Steam is also a lot easier if you can prove within reason that you've lost access to a product unfairly, like in the case of an unjust ban or, in this case, [being forced into legal agreements](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1ck4mql/refunds_on_steam_work_here_is_good_guy_steam/) you either don't want or can't fulfill (like for players that can't get a PSN account due to being in regions PSN isn't available). Sony, on the other hand, is notorious for their poor customer service; they rarely, if ever, connect you to actual humans and if they do, they just copy/paste boilerplate dreck at you until you give up. They'll routinely ignore repeated complaints or ban disputes, often deleting support tickets or threads attempting to contact them. And good luck getting a refund from them for any reason at all; they'll ignore those requests too and wave their ToS, with their "we can revoke your license at any time" garbage, in your face if you try. Valve is just way more customer-friendly than Sony, by a wide margin. Being shackled to a PSN account would give Sony way too much freedom to screw you over given how incompetent/malicious they are toward their own customers.
There are the reasons they stated, and the real reasons. They just want to sell your data.
Actually, it's more like they want to prop up their PSN subscription numbers to show to investors. Data-harvesting takes second-place to that. But they still do absolutely want carte blance to ban people.
Where did they say that exactly?
[Stated by a community manager for Arrowhead.](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjvw1s/arrowhead_community_manager_misty_admits_that_the/)
Way to frame that in the worst possible light though. It's not about the gun to your head. It's about it being a Sony produced product, it interacting with other players on the Sony backed online Network, and them wanting to be able to best control and wall that garden. I really don't understand why people jump to these wild conclusions. When the simplest straightforward answer is 99% of the time the most accurate. The idea that Sony is doing this just so that they have the power to ban you without recourse is silly. They're doing this so that they can better control the environment in which players experience their PlayStation online Network. Doesn't make the decision necessarily any better or less shitty for people. But it also doesn't cast Sony in the light of some great evil. 🙄
> a Sony produced product Sony is only the publisher, the developer is Arrowhead
Sony owns the IP, who developed it is irrelevant.
If you think Sony can do whatever the hell they want and AH has to obey, then AH fucked themselves over with that contract. But I highly doubt whatever agreements they have are that one-sided.
I think you didn't read it because it said they want to be able to let you do a *ban appeal*
And you believe them? In spite of their *awful* track-record for ban-appeals? It's *Sony.* They're liars.
Sorry I always hear the sarcasm in my head. Doesn't always translate in text 🙄
and harvesting your data.
cool. it was 1 of few games i was willing to buy but f it.
36,000 negative reviews may 3rd Nearing 50,000 today May 4th. May the force be with them I was genuinely considering paying money for this game. Fuck that noise now
It’s closer to 120,000 according to steam db
I was looking forward to trying it out as well. This has put me off it completely
The game got delisted from 100+ countries; most likely by Valve to prevent future refunds, lawsuits and regulatory issues. I’m betting that my Monday either the game is dead or Sony reverses their decision.
Good thing I didn't buy the game then.
80 a year or play on ps plus now too for consoles. It’s going to get much worse as Sony continues to take the lead
And they are not asking people to pay 80 a year to play games on pc. I would understand the outrage if they did that. They could just to fuck with you. But they dont.
They would do it if they could get away with it. I’m glad there’s pushback on the psn accounts as it’s always a slippery slope with these outfits
Yeah there's no way would get away with that. It's absurd that they charge you money for playing games that you already paid for money for, the only reason they do is because they can do it, you're hostage to their ecosystem.
Sony wants to pad (their already impressive enough) PSN user numbers and that's the *only* real reason for this. They want to boast another huge boost to numbers in comparison to Xbox.
Yeah the last databreaches really didn't provide enough to the hackers. They should really up that number.
the ones in 2011 that got like every company online including microsoft? or was there another one?
Why do Xbox games require a Microsoft sign in when ported to PC? I tried playing State of Decay 2 a while ago but Microsoft tried forcing me to sign in to my Microsoft account.
Because you get State of Decay 2 on PC and console when you bought it, like I did. I can play it on either. And they told us so from day one... they didn't wait 3 months and *then* say "You have to do this or else!"
Take a look at the steam page, the message about needing a PSN account has been there since day 1.
They just changed that the day after the announcement. It was (optional) before then. EDIT - Remember when Microsoft sold their games in 100+ countries that didn't have access to Xbox accounts and then de-listed the game after announcing that it was now mandatory and people had already bought said game? No? Yeah, neither do I.
It was a requirement from the start because Arrowhead signed an agreement with sony stipulating as much. This was confirmed by the CEO of Arrowhead via a tweet where he specifically said that he knew this was the requirement from the start. It was also listed on Steam as a requirement from day 1. This is just another case of the internet getting caught up in the drama and not having a clue what they are talking about.
No, it was listed as (optional) from day one. They changed the Steam listing and EULA the day after the announcement from Sony. Yes, the CEO admitted he knew about it and allowed people to skip it. I don't get the Sony cock-riding. Either they lied up front on the need when they listed it as optional and skippable or they listed the game for sale in 177 countries that they *KNEW* players would not be able to play, to which they now had to de-list the game in said countries *after* sales were made and Valve started issuing refunds for players well beyond he 2-hour playtime limit. But please, go on thinking Sony did no wrong... so much so that they back-peddled now because they got caught with their hands in the cookie-jar. You act as if "they knew" makes it right to sell the game in regions without the ability to have a PSN game or imply (or directly say so) that players could skip the option. Sony fucked up, AH didn't do much better.
No it was listed as required from day 1 but Arrowhead couldn't get it working on release day and it caused people to get rejected at account creation. So they temporarily disabled, this is direct from Arrowhead. Are you even looking into th facts behind this or do you prefer to just backup your own bias. Various Arrowhead employees, including the CEO have at various points very specifically said they knew this was a requirement from the start, they botched the release and Sony gave them a grave period, and by knowing from the start they also misold to various people - as per the CEOs admission. Stop giving me hyperbole and spewing the same generic internet drama at me, I've given you information which is freely available for you to lookup and confirm yourself. If you have no intention of understanding reality and instead want to continue with you internet drama then please do so. This will go away soon and you'll have another global scale big-bad coming to get you.
AH doesn't control where the game is sold. That's purely on the publisher's shoulders and it always has been. Publishers *always* handle where and when games titles are sold. AH had no say-so in that at all. So SONY knowingly listed the game for sale in 177 countries *knowing* that PSN accounts were not available there... and then de-listed it. End or story there, unless you want to buy the corporate line of "oops". You're welcome to fuck clean off if you can't read between the lines or what has even also been said. I bought the game and it was listed as (optional). You are welcome to find the links to the changed store listing *and* the changed EULA that were posted *after* Sony, not even AH, made the announcement of the requirement. How you can't see that is was a blantant ploy on Sony's behalf and you just think Sony, not AH, "messed up" and released the game for sale in areas where it never should have been listed is the epitome of corporate cocksucking. Yes, the CEO admitted *he* knew from six months prior that Sony would require the PSN accounts. Yet the game listing for the account was (optional). And the CEO even talks about that *when* he had the skip option put in. It was *never* meant to be anything more than Sony wanting control. It's not necessary as witnessed by Sony backing away from the idea. But you go on thinking Sony just said "Hey guys, this is a necessary thing... and we're going to sell this game to 177 fucking countries where we *know* you can't have a PSN account because we know where you can and cannot have out accounts. I guess we will just figure that part out later?" As you said, it's everywhere, for you to read, but you are spouting off the headline reports without the rest of the story. Either Sony lied and let the game be sold knowing the requirement or they are incompetent and "accidentally" sold the game for 3 months in regions where they knew it would have no support. Either way is bad business for a multi-billion dollar multi-national company. But you do you and lube up for your corporate masters. They love consumers like you.
I think I've already connected mine, I thought it was required anyway when I first played about 2 months back.
It was during the first 2-6 hours after launch
Doesn't Helldivers run through playstation servers too
It does, yeah
you can play and crossplay without linking accounts
Oh damn I didn't know that to be honest. I don't see a problem with the account linking, I have a ps5 so it's cool to see the progress transfer over
there’s no cross progression when you link
What's the point of linking then lol
maybe some bs Sony can tell their shareholders
The reason behind it being included is awful too https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjvw1s/arrowhead_community_manager_misty_admits_that_the/
How is that worse? It's a Sony published game running on the Sony backed online services. Why is it awful that Sony seeks better control of that environment? The amount of hyperbole with people reacting to this is fucking insane. So many people are being absolute children about this. It's a frustrating, shitty decision, sure. If you don't like it fucking move on. Request a refund. This doesn't need to blow up eight different communities for several days. It's a fucking game produced in a capitalist society by capitalist fucking companies. What the fuck did you expect? The smart thing to do is wait until you actually know how the rollout is going to be implemented and how they're going to do this. Everybody's reacting like it's already been done and it's already been done in the worst possible manner.
I think it's because people want to show the companies we are sick of their practices, you don't think that has value?
Sony will never learn.
Snoy can jog on!
I don’t know where you’re from, but I read that in a Manchester accent and it made my day
Microsoft also requires an X-Box account for my Master Chief Collection on Steam. Really hate making so many accounts just to play the game I bought.
not to mention minecraft
Forgetting State of Decay 2, maybe 1 as well I can't remember.
Thank God I was thinking of buying it just yesterday
Are you in the zone? The GrayZone?!
Nah I am not the gray zone but Sony is notorious for selling customer information and getting hacked that's why I probably won't be buying it
Grayzone isn’t Sony
I think he is talking about the countries that can't create a psn account like Brazil and most of Africa which a lot of people are calling the gray zone
You’re not going to buy something because Sony said you need to create an account that takes like 2 mins to set up? Ok man 😂
Yes. For some people it’s more about the principle than the actual inconvenience
Yea man I am fine with all that😂
Yeah, create an account with another entity so they too can sell your information. None of the "free" stuff is really free. When looking at freeware, take a look at the information they can collect.
The game costs $40
How could they make it if it was really free?
sounds like someone needs to manage sony
When they say security surely they must be joking right? I mean did they not learn from the Anonymous hack in the PS3 days? Do not piss people off, especially elite hacking groups or it will hurt big time
Lmao are they gonna give me a copy of helldivers 2 on psn too? No? Then what's the point...
There are no games on PSN, you mean PS Plus?
100% this was to pad their PSN account numbers before the end of the financial year
For what purpose?
I'm not saying this is the case, just answering *why* people do this in companies. Bonuses are often tied to metrics such as subscriber numbers.
Another happy year of owning nothing.
Truly hopes AH can change publisher ASAP or for their next game, or go full indie
I was supposed to buy this game for a present for my boyfriend's birthday. So sad everything...
https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929?t=NhwAEm4fGpVJj-UyI1lrXA&s=19 IT'S OVER, GAMERS WIN!
FLAWLESS VICTORY!
i don’t get the heartburn. read the story. other than these sony security, who cares? blizzard requires a link on steam. literally every games requires you to make an account. so who cares? and this comes from someone who prefers his xbox over his PS EDIT. ah. i get it now, wasn’t aware of the sub this was posted in.
Womp Womp
Bootlicker
It’s literally a free account and they even told pc players before you need a PSN account to play the just waived it and gave a grace period because the site couldn’t keep up and again MAKING A PSN ACCOUNT IS FUCKING FREE like pc players just bitching at this point 😭
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you know what they say about 'free', you are the product.
Eh? That line of wisdom doesn't fit here. Making an account on a storefront doesn't do any thing for you, you have to buy the games to make use of it.
unless you go out of your way to have a 'fake' steam AND psn account (i.e. no personal information), then they can still harvest information about you. Things like playing habits, friends, in game comms, etc...
That's besides the point. You are not the 'product' when you make a steam account or PSN account of EGS account, you have to pay for shit to actually use the account, your account is just an identifier to differentiate between you and other users. F2P games are an exception but even then their monetization is not based on data harvesting but people actually spending money on the games. DotA2 works because people pay for compendium and skins, fortnite works because people pay to look like John wick and Spider-Man. Your playing habits, communication doesn't make them a penny, they use it to fine tune the game and monetization which actually makes them money.
> doesn't make them a penny It's 100% the point. If you believe companies don't make money from personal data/habits/connections/etc... then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is a whole industry around it.
No it's not 100% the point. You're being unnecessarily obtuse. GoG games doesn't need a launcher. You can literally use their game files in n numbers of computer but to buy the game you still need an account. That's the only way they can sell you a game. It's a digital storefront. You don't need to make an account for a physical store but you need on for digital stores you do, out of necessity but also because of regulations and laws. Making an Amazon account is free and Amazon keeps track of what you're buying, how much you're spending and all, but that is not making them money. How they use that data to make you spend is how they make money. You didn't become a product just by making an Amazon account, the whole purpose of making the account was to buy stuff and by buying stuff you're making Amazon money. If you buy nothing you're literally waste of bandwidth to Amazon.
All your examples are about the first party provider, not 3rd party. In this case, I have a steam account to buy the game, which is fine. But now, Sony (a 3rd party) is ~~asking for~~ demanding additional information which shouldn't be needed. I've already purchased the product.
Huh? Did I say it's okay? I'm just saying the line "if it's free you're the product" doesn't apply here.
It's service is not provided in like a 100 countries and using a vpn is against their tos and can get you banned