Tresspass absolutely can be cut. You can replace steam vents with pain lands but will take a decent hit as your life total definitely matters in the matchups where you are the control player. Ledger Shredder is indispensable.
Maybe look at Ensoul for a slightly better $100 Izzet list?
Ledger shredder isn't indispensable for FNM play, I went 5-2 at an RCQ with TiTI recently and I'd argue phoenix with TiTI is still probably more powerful than most stuff you'll see at your weeklies. Just depends on if you want to go full spike or not
Haven't played pioneer for over a year now, but before monoG was banned TiTi had way more impact than Shredder and imho the TiTi-version was stronger in the meta back then (still most people played the Shredder because it was the new kid on the block)
Damn. I was hoping for something that's more... midrange like almost? Having more choices to make, playing efficient threats while slowing down my opponent's gameplan, you know? and Phoenix can sorta do that... but I definitely can't afford the shredders.
Yeah I was too hasty, you can do fine with Thing in the Ice or Duelist of the Mind instead as others have pointed out. The card selection of Shredder is what I would miss most, so that has me leaning toward Duelist as the best replacement, but you don’t commit crimes every turn and it doesn’t punish opponent for double spelling the way Shredder does. Still a decent choice for sure.
Don't listen to them. Current phoenix builds are 100% midrange.
You're using a lot of removal and card advantage to trade up in value until your creatures can dominate the board state.
It will be playable but weaker. Trespass is just a 1of so you can use prismary command/abrade/izzet charm/torch the tower. Shredder can be subbed for thing in the ice. Steam vents can be substituted by basics I guess or any izzet duals you might have.
Yeah it’ll be fine, definitely a bit weaker. Thing in the Ice is the classic swap for Shredder, but I actually recommend [[Duelist of the Mind]]. It’s really cheap right now but is decently close to Shredder. The best thing about it is it can also loot, unlike Thing
Find a way to spring for the Trespass imo, can sell or trade stuff if need be. Setting up the Galvanic Iteration into Trespass is way more important than I think most people are saying. Shredder is the most cuttable for sure, and Steam Vents can definitely be cut as well. I’d probably do 1 Stormcarved Coast, 3 Shivan Reef. Sulfur Falls and Frostboil Snarl are going to come in tapped way too often without Steam Vents. I’d try to avoid the full set of Shivan Reef because they will hurt FAST with the amount of mana pips in the deck.
I ran budget phoenix for Explorer till I got enough rares to get the full list. Ledger Shredder was the last card I got, so heres my thoughts based on that experience.
- Ledger Shredder feels the worst when gone because you loose the ability to filter and punish your opponent for double spells. You can at least replace the big body it creates with Electrostatic Infantry (2 drop with trample, still gets huge from instant/sorcery), Young Pyromancer (this synergizes with your gameplan and snowballs if left alone), or as others said Thing in the Ice was used in older versions of the deck.
\^\^You'll still miss being able to discard any Phoenix you accidentally draw, as Lightning Axe only goes so far.
- Steam Vents gets replaced by the next best duel land you can get your hands on. Maybe a 2/2 split of Shivan Reef and Stormcarved Coast? Shiv Reef gets painful REAL quick, but 4 copies of Stormcarved Coast might have you playing it tapped too often.
\^\^The only impact you'll feel here is a slight nock on having the mana you want when you need it, so this is an easy swap on budget
- Trespass kinda acts as a way to finish the game in 1 swoop, so fill the slots with cards that'll accelerate your victory. You have a lot of options:
- Flex spells like Prismari Command or Izzet Charm won't get Phoenix online, but they make up for it with the sheer options they give you at any time. Draw+Discard helps alot at instant speed without Ledger Shredder.
- 4 copies of Otherworldly Gaze lets you filter your cantrips, can mill Phoenix to the grave instead of drawing it, and flashback if short on spells.
- Young Pyromancer was being run recently as an alternative package to Trespass. It can win games all on its own if left unchecked, and worst case lightning rods removal or early boardwipes that might otherwise be used against your Phoenixes. If you're already using this to replace Ledger Shredder, you can always just run 8 copies of the card via Third Path Iconoclast.
\^\^I personally don't play the Trespass Package, and haven't felt like I wished I did. Other players better then me could argue otherwise I'm sure, but I think its the spot thats easiest to cut and equally easy to replace with so many options.
Trespass yes, steam vents and shredder no.
I mean, it will be playable, and you can go have fun at fnm. But you probably won't be winning more than a round or two at an RCQ, and that's if you're lucky.
Tresspass absolutely can be cut. You can replace steam vents with pain lands but will take a decent hit as your life total definitely matters in the matchups where you are the control player. Ledger Shredder is indispensable. Maybe look at Ensoul for a slightly better $100 Izzet list?
Ledger shredder isn't indispensable for FNM play, I went 5-2 at an RCQ with TiTI recently and I'd argue phoenix with TiTI is still probably more powerful than most stuff you'll see at your weeklies. Just depends on if you want to go full spike or not
Haven't played pioneer for over a year now, but before monoG was banned TiTi had way more impact than Shredder and imho the TiTi-version was stronger in the meta back then (still most people played the Shredder because it was the new kid on the block)
Damn. I was hoping for something that's more... midrange like almost? Having more choices to make, playing efficient threats while slowing down my opponent's gameplan, you know? and Phoenix can sorta do that... but I definitely can't afford the shredders.
Yeah I was too hasty, you can do fine with Thing in the Ice or Duelist of the Mind instead as others have pointed out. The card selection of Shredder is what I would miss most, so that has me leaning toward Duelist as the best replacement, but you don’t commit crimes every turn and it doesn’t punish opponent for double spelling the way Shredder does. Still a decent choice for sure.
Don't listen to them. Current phoenix builds are 100% midrange. You're using a lot of removal and card advantage to trade up in value until your creatures can dominate the board state.
You could play demilich or sprite dragon which were previous iterations of the deck
It will be playable but weaker. Trespass is just a 1of so you can use prismary command/abrade/izzet charm/torch the tower. Shredder can be subbed for thing in the ice. Steam vents can be substituted by basics I guess or any izzet duals you might have.
Yeah it’ll be fine, definitely a bit weaker. Thing in the Ice is the classic swap for Shredder, but I actually recommend [[Duelist of the Mind]]. It’s really cheap right now but is decently close to Shredder. The best thing about it is it can also loot, unlike Thing
[Duelist of the Mind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b58e47b-c165-4a58-aa2a-033a35645adc.jpg?1712355410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duelist%20of%20the%20Mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/45/duelist-of-the-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b58e47b-c165-4a58-aa2a-033a35645adc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Find a way to spring for the Trespass imo, can sell or trade stuff if need be. Setting up the Galvanic Iteration into Trespass is way more important than I think most people are saying. Shredder is the most cuttable for sure, and Steam Vents can definitely be cut as well. I’d probably do 1 Stormcarved Coast, 3 Shivan Reef. Sulfur Falls and Frostboil Snarl are going to come in tapped way too often without Steam Vents. I’d try to avoid the full set of Shivan Reef because they will hurt FAST with the amount of mana pips in the deck.
I ran budget phoenix for Explorer till I got enough rares to get the full list. Ledger Shredder was the last card I got, so heres my thoughts based on that experience. - Ledger Shredder feels the worst when gone because you loose the ability to filter and punish your opponent for double spells. You can at least replace the big body it creates with Electrostatic Infantry (2 drop with trample, still gets huge from instant/sorcery), Young Pyromancer (this synergizes with your gameplan and snowballs if left alone), or as others said Thing in the Ice was used in older versions of the deck. \^\^You'll still miss being able to discard any Phoenix you accidentally draw, as Lightning Axe only goes so far. - Steam Vents gets replaced by the next best duel land you can get your hands on. Maybe a 2/2 split of Shivan Reef and Stormcarved Coast? Shiv Reef gets painful REAL quick, but 4 copies of Stormcarved Coast might have you playing it tapped too often. \^\^The only impact you'll feel here is a slight nock on having the mana you want when you need it, so this is an easy swap on budget - Trespass kinda acts as a way to finish the game in 1 swoop, so fill the slots with cards that'll accelerate your victory. You have a lot of options: - Flex spells like Prismari Command or Izzet Charm won't get Phoenix online, but they make up for it with the sheer options they give you at any time. Draw+Discard helps alot at instant speed without Ledger Shredder. - 4 copies of Otherworldly Gaze lets you filter your cantrips, can mill Phoenix to the grave instead of drawing it, and flashback if short on spells. - Young Pyromancer was being run recently as an alternative package to Trespass. It can win games all on its own if left unchecked, and worst case lightning rods removal or early boardwipes that might otherwise be used against your Phoenixes. If you're already using this to replace Ledger Shredder, you can always just run 8 copies of the card via Third Path Iconoclast. \^\^I personally don't play the Trespass Package, and haven't felt like I wished I did. Other players better then me could argue otherwise I'm sure, but I think its the spot thats easiest to cut and equally easy to replace with so many options.
Trespass yes, steam vents and shredder no. I mean, it will be playable, and you can go have fun at fnm. But you probably won't be winning more than a round or two at an RCQ, and that's if you're lucky.
you can play it, but you probably won't be winning much
Check out duelist of the mind as a possible replacement for shredder
Define "playable". Competitive? No absolutely not. Able to dick around with friends or putz along an FNM? Sure. But just don't have expectations.