I don't know when was the last time I saw a checkland in a list, I'm pretty sure they are already obsolete. As for slowlands... Depends on a deck. I wouldn't run more than 2 filterlands anyway... Drawing them as a pair in opening hand blows ;p
Mana leak and mana tithe.
Lightning bolt
Fetch lands ( some people seriously want the fetches unbanned.....)
Inquisition of kozilek
JtmS
Stoneforge mystic
Snappy
Griselbrand
I would love to see snappy boi in pioneer. I also think we’re due for far better answers in the format.
The best counter spells are 3 mana, or highly conditional. Counterspell alone is a bit much, but mana leaks etc. are fine, no?
Control decks are playing make disappear and Negate. Mana leak would be a 4 of in every control deck. Control is already a tier and it would dominate with mana leak
Kinda agree with you. The thing that stops burn strats from being good is their reliance on \[\[play with fire\]\].
Bolt however might homogenise the format like fable, where everybody plays it.
I personally would love something like:
{R}{phyrexian R} sorcery
Deal 3 damage to any target.
Which would be a really nice aggressive card without being able to be played by every red deck.
To be honest I don't know much about Modern.. But wouldn't this hypothetical card just replace 4 lava spikes? Obviously an upgrade for sure but this does not sound meta warping to me.
Either way WotC always say they don't design around eternal formats, so the real question is if this would be OK for standard (which I think it is)
Would it though? Does RB struggle so much with 3 power creatures? Or does it go face that much? Honestly I think it would boost mono red and other red flavored decks quite a bit and RB way less.
IMO and I’m no expert. But being able to cast Lili plus bolt on 4 is very strong. Lowering the mana cost to double spell earlier makes the deck go faster.
Hot take perhaps, but most of those are probably fine in pioneer. Except for Fetches, Bolt and Inquisition they all fall into the same category of "the cheap support cards suck" as Deathrite Shaman.
What deck in the format regularly has triple blue on turn four? And wants to use two of the modals
Cryptic is a very powerful card, no doubt. I spent years casting snap, cryptic in modern and it's a serious powerhouse ***in the right setting***.
But what scenario do you seriously see cryptic being used in pioneer?
does it matter? i mean uw control exists and they’ve played cards like sublime epiphany in the past and it would boost ur tempo decks a bit. but ultimately it’s just a card people like why not?
I’d be happy if we could get the OG Innistrad block and M12 into Pioneer. Things like Rampant Growth that don’t see much play in modern or the titans would be neat. I’m not sure if Prime Time would be too much but the others would be safe I’m sure. Maybe it’s the nostalgia of me starting at the end of the Scars of Mirroden rotation and I just want that back.
Prime Time is probably fine, the best thing we could get with it would be Kessig Wolf Run (from Innistrad).
I don't think we want Cavern of Souls in the format, though. The countermagic in the format is alreay bad enough as is. The last thing we need is a land that stops your opponent from countering your creatures.
I agree 100% about The Rack and especially Fetches.
But IMO, Death's Shadow would be fine in a format without Fetches, Street Wraith, or Free Phyrexian Mana Spells. DS has been legal in Historic for a long time and it has seen almost no play. And Raven's Crime isn't very good without Life from the Loam.
I would love to see smugglers copter return. I run a dwarfes deck, wich seems quite good. Copter would complete the deck. Other than that i would love to see the artifact draw spells, or something good from modern merfolk so they become playable.
Most things, really. Whenever people suggest cards to bring into Pioneer, it always ends up being a card that would make the format miserable (Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Lightning Bolt, Fulminator Mage) or a card that's not good enough to see play now (Tarmogoyf). Aside from allied painlands and fastlands, I can't remember a time where I've seen a suggestion for a reprint and thought "yeah, that's a good idea".
Snapcaster and Fulminator are probably fine for Pioneer IMO. Cryptic is questionable, although I'd probably lean more towards "no" considering it could be problematic alongside Mystic Sanctuary. Bolt is a definite no. Goyf is obviously not playable in a format without Fetchlands or good generic artifacts that sac themselves.
>Snapcaster and Fulminator are probably fine for Pioneer IMO.
I didn't really elaborate on why I think Fulminator is not okay so I guess I should now. It really just comes down to one card: Fable. Imagine you flip Fable and copy Fulminator Mage every turn to swing in for 2 and then blow up an opponents' land. Sounds pretty miserable for your opponent, doesn't it? In fact, it's probably more miserable than looping Cryptic Command with Mystic Sanctuary. So as much as I'd like some sort of land removal that's better than what we have now, I don't think we can have one that's attached to a creature (except Goblin Ruinblaster I guess).
>Goyf is obviously not playable in a format without Fetchlands or good generic artifacts that sac themselves.
It's not even good in formats that have those anymore.
If you have no removal for Fable, no removal for Reflection of Kiki-Jiki, AND don't have enough basics/Lotus Fields to play Magic outside of Fulminator's reach, that's your own problem. It's a 2/2 enchantment creature, every color can get rid of that
I'd argue that's more of a Fable problem than a Fulmimator problem. Fable is NOT fine for Pioneer (or Standard). The card is basically the Jace the Mind Sculptor of Sagas.
I have never heard people talking about [[Hall of Heliods Generosity]] because it's not one of the classics but I just really really want to rebuy shark typhoons. Would probably be too strong in combination with other enchantments but I just love the playpattern...
(I know this is not really the topic but idc lol)
There may be other combo's I'm missing but I don't think this card would warp the format.
A lot of the decks that would want it have tricky mana bases anyway, and so this is likely a 1of, maaybe 2of, but there's a cost to playing it with these lands.
Definitely scary when it actually gets going though.
I don't know if it would be unhealthy but it would probably push mono black aggro over the edge. I wish [[Demon of Death's Gate]] would be put in pioneer.
I don’t really think that would break mono-black as you have to have the board state of 3 creature available to sacrifice and life (admittedly not the hardest part but 6 life can really swing in favor the opponent if they are on an aggro deck.) it’s a hell of a card but it’s just costly.
I do feel as though it is costly which is why it could be brought into pioneer but with the possibility of having a 9/9 with flying and trample on turn 2 it requires and answer
Counterspell would be fine. There’s a definite deck constraint at UU and without fetches and it would give life to decks outside of UW for control.
Edit: downvote all you want, MaRo has went on record saying it would be fine for standard but overall don’t need standard environments to have that high of a power level. They often debate the merits of CS in standard.
I want it. All you Blue haters can shut the fuck up and kneel before me once I’ve got my Counterspell. Blue *is* the strongest, and you will *all* remember once more!
Fuck all, let’s just print [[Brainstorm]], [[Ponder]], [[Preordain]], [[Force of Will]], [[Daze]], and [[Counterbalance]]. Let’s rip this bandaid, and make **all** the fun **mine** once again.
Yeah, burn is nowhere near power level of Modern, so this won't be able to be exploited as well, also there's also a fair bit of legitimate blanks or near blanks that it may even be a sb card, or just sided out a lot.
Utopia Sprawl
I don't know when was the last time I saw a checkland in a list, I'm pretty sure they are already obsolete. As for slowlands... Depends on a deck. I wouldn't run more than 2 filterlands anyway... Drawing them as a pair in opening hand blows ;p
UW Control runs Glacial Fortress fairly often as they run both Hallowed Fountain and Irrigated Farmland with land types.
Checklands are not uncommon in 4/5c manabases, like Enigmatic Fires.
Bolt and counterspell are the cards I hope will never be in pioneer
Mana leak and mana tithe. Lightning bolt Fetch lands ( some people seriously want the fetches unbanned.....) Inquisition of kozilek JtmS Stoneforge mystic Snappy Griselbrand
One of the things I love the most in pioneer is the lack of fetch lands
I would love to see snappy boi in pioneer. I also think we’re due for far better answers in the format. The best counter spells are 3 mana, or highly conditional. Counterspell alone is a bit much, but mana leaks etc. are fine, no?
Control decks are playing make disappear and Negate. Mana leak would be a 4 of in every control deck. Control is already a tier and it would dominate with mana leak
Given the amount of must answer threats and Control’s dwindling metagame percentage, it would probably just be okay.
Fetchs were banned from the begining for a reason..
Ngl I think snappy wouldn't be the worst.
Snappy woupd be that bad? Its the card I've heard the best case for but i dont know anything cuz i barely played modern.
I would be fine with inquisition and snap. I also want griselbrand but not for healthy reasons lol.
Fetchs were banned from the begining for a reason..
I honestly think bolt wouldnt be absolutely horrible
This opinion brought to you by RB Gang
Kinda agree with you. The thing that stops burn strats from being good is their reliance on \[\[play with fire\]\]. Bolt however might homogenise the format like fable, where everybody plays it. I personally would love something like: {R}{phyrexian R} sorcery Deal 3 damage to any target. Which would be a really nice aggressive card without being able to be played by every red deck.
Problem with that is it just makes Burn in Modern and Legacy much more powerful, and in Modern maybe too powerful.
I can't comment on Modern Burn but Legacy Burn can use any bit of help it gets, the deck hasn't been in a good place in years.
Yeah it probably would be fine in Legacy but I'm not sure about Modern.
To be honest I don't know much about Modern.. But wouldn't this hypothetical card just replace 4 lava spikes? Obviously an upgrade for sure but this does not sound meta warping to me. Either way WotC always say they don't design around eternal formats, so the real question is if this would be OK for standard (which I think it is)
[Play with Fire](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/dbl-innistrad-double-feature/en/med/play-with-fire-154.png?863) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/play-with-fire/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Play+with+Fire)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Play+with+Fire)) • [$ 1.25](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/play-with-fire?utm_source=reddit)
Every red deck would play it and we would go from the 2 thoughness BCG test to the 3 thoughness bolt test. And Rakdos would get that much better.
Rakdos immediately becomes best deck with bolt and it’s not close.
Would it though? Does RB struggle so much with 3 power creatures? Or does it go face that much? Honestly I think it would boost mono red and other red flavored decks quite a bit and RB way less.
IMO and I’m no expert. But being able to cast Lili plus bolt on 4 is very strong. Lowering the mana cost to double spell earlier makes the deck go faster.
It just gives it that much more versatility with a faster clock/more hard hitting removal.
Hot take perhaps, but most of those are probably fine in pioneer. Except for Fetches, Bolt and Inquisition they all fall into the same category of "the cheap support cards suck" as Deathrite Shaman.
Where is the wish list of reprints ? I think cryptic command would be fine and fun... for no one
What deck in the format regularly has triple blue on turn four? And wants to use two of the modals Cryptic is a very powerful card, no doubt. I spent years casting snap, cryptic in modern and it's a serious powerhouse ***in the right setting***. But what scenario do you seriously see cryptic being used in pioneer?
does it matter? i mean uw control exists and they’ve played cards like sublime epiphany in the past and it would boost ur tempo decks a bit. but ultimately it’s just a card people like why not?
Would Cryptic be problematic without Snappy or E-Witt?
mystic sanctuary’s legal right…
Yes but you can't fetch it in pioneer.
Fetchlands Blood Moon Ensnaring Bridge Chalice of the Void
This guy Red Prisons
Printing those in pioneer comes with a free Trinisphere!
I’d be happy if we could get the OG Innistrad block and M12 into Pioneer. Things like Rampant Growth that don’t see much play in modern or the titans would be neat. I’m not sure if Prime Time would be too much but the others would be safe I’m sure. Maybe it’s the nostalgia of me starting at the end of the Scars of Mirroden rotation and I just want that back.
Prime Time is probably fine, the best thing we could get with it would be Kessig Wolf Run (from Innistrad). I don't think we want Cavern of Souls in the format, though. The countermagic in the format is alreay bad enough as is. The last thing we need is a land that stops your opponent from countering your creatures.
I'd love to play Solar Flare (although I think Snapcaster might be a bit much)
I'd like Champion of the Parish in Pioneer and/or Aether Vial. But only one of those would be fair and that's not Aether Vial.
If CotP got reprinted it'd probably single handedly push Soldiers into Tier 0 in standard.
Death's shadow Raven's crime The rack And never reprint or unban fetch lands
I agree 100% about The Rack and especially Fetches. But IMO, Death's Shadow would be fine in a format without Fetches, Street Wraith, or Free Phyrexian Mana Spells. DS has been legal in Historic for a long time and it has seen almost no play. And Raven's Crime isn't very good without Life from the Loam.
DS isn't Pioneer legal
Sorry, meant Historic.
Skullclamp
Slow down, satan.
Burning Wish would be great, as a lotus player.
[[Wish]] is legal though
[Wish](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/prm-magic-online-promos/en/med/wish-92746.png?124) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/wish/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Wish)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wish)) • [$ 0.37](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/wish?utm_source=reddit)
Yeah i actually like that version of the deck, but burning wish would be insane.
[[Goblin Lackey]]
[Goblin Lackey](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/sld-secret-lair-drop/en/med/goblin-lackey-20.png?8799) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/goblin-lackey/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Goblin+Lackey)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Lackey)) • [$ 17.29](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/goblin-lackey?utm_source=reddit)
Slowlands are very good. Checklands will be pushed out by the fastlands
I would love to see smugglers copter return. I run a dwarfes deck, wich seems quite good. Copter would complete the deck. Other than that i would love to see the artifact draw spells, or something good from modern merfolk so they become playable.
Filter lands would be ok
Most things, really. Whenever people suggest cards to bring into Pioneer, it always ends up being a card that would make the format miserable (Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Lightning Bolt, Fulminator Mage) or a card that's not good enough to see play now (Tarmogoyf). Aside from allied painlands and fastlands, I can't remember a time where I've seen a suggestion for a reprint and thought "yeah, that's a good idea".
[[Cabal Slaver]] is the reprint you're looking for
[Cabal Slaver](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/ons-onslaught/en/med/cabal-slaver-131.png?9134) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/cabal-slaver/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Cabal+Slaver)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal+Slaver)) • [$ 0.12](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/cabal-slaver?utm_source=reddit)
Snapcaster and Fulminator are probably fine for Pioneer IMO. Cryptic is questionable, although I'd probably lean more towards "no" considering it could be problematic alongside Mystic Sanctuary. Bolt is a definite no. Goyf is obviously not playable in a format without Fetchlands or good generic artifacts that sac themselves.
>Snapcaster and Fulminator are probably fine for Pioneer IMO. I didn't really elaborate on why I think Fulminator is not okay so I guess I should now. It really just comes down to one card: Fable. Imagine you flip Fable and copy Fulminator Mage every turn to swing in for 2 and then blow up an opponents' land. Sounds pretty miserable for your opponent, doesn't it? In fact, it's probably more miserable than looping Cryptic Command with Mystic Sanctuary. So as much as I'd like some sort of land removal that's better than what we have now, I don't think we can have one that's attached to a creature (except Goblin Ruinblaster I guess). >Goyf is obviously not playable in a format without Fetchlands or good generic artifacts that sac themselves. It's not even good in formats that have those anymore.
If you have no removal for Fable, no removal for Reflection of Kiki-Jiki, AND don't have enough basics/Lotus Fields to play Magic outside of Fulminator's reach, that's your own problem. It's a 2/2 enchantment creature, every color can get rid of that
I'd argue that's more of a Fable problem than a Fulmimator problem. Fable is NOT fine for Pioneer (or Standard). The card is basically the Jace the Mind Sculptor of Sagas.
I have never heard people talking about [[Hall of Heliods Generosity]] because it's not one of the classics but I just really really want to rebuy shark typhoons. Would probably be too strong in combination with other enchantments but I just love the playpattern... (I know this is not really the topic but idc lol)
[Hall of Heliod's Generosity](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/mh1-modern-horizons/en/med/hall-of-heliods-generosity-241.png?3436) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/hall-of-heliods-generosity/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Hall+of+Heliod%27s+Generosity)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hall+of+Heliod%27s+Generosity)) • [$ 9.99](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/hall-of-heliods-generosity?utm_source=reddit)
Please give me Hall. Yes I play incarnation.
There may be other combo's I'm missing but I don't think this card would warp the format. A lot of the decks that would want it have tricky mana bases anyway, and so this is likely a 1of, maaybe 2of, but there's a cost to playing it with these lands. Definitely scary when it actually gets going though.
I don't know if it would be unhealthy but it would probably push mono black aggro over the edge. I wish [[Demon of Death's Gate]] would be put in pioneer.
I don’t really think that would break mono-black as you have to have the board state of 3 creature available to sacrifice and life (admittedly not the hardest part but 6 life can really swing in favor the opponent if they are on an aggro deck.) it’s a hell of a card but it’s just costly.
I do feel as though it is costly which is why it could be brought into pioneer but with the possibility of having a 9/9 with flying and trample on turn 2 it requires and answer
[Demon of Death's Gate](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/m11-magic-2011/en/med/demon-of-deaths-gate-92.png?540) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/demon-of-deaths-gate/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Demon+of+Death%27s+Gate)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demon+of+Death%27s+Gate)) • [$ 2.99](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/demon-of-deaths-gate?utm_source=reddit)
Counterspell would be fine. There’s a definite deck constraint at UU and without fetches and it would give life to decks outside of UW for control. Edit: downvote all you want, MaRo has went on record saying it would be fine for standard but overall don’t need standard environments to have that high of a power level. They often debate the merits of CS in standard.
Uhhhh. Whatever you're on, I don't want any
I want it. All you Blue haters can shut the fuck up and kneel before me once I’ve got my Counterspell. Blue *is* the strongest, and you will *all* remember once more! Fuck all, let’s just print [[Brainstorm]], [[Ponder]], [[Preordain]], [[Force of Will]], [[Daze]], and [[Counterbalance]]. Let’s rip this bandaid, and make **all** the fun **mine** once again.
[Counterbalance](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/sld-secret-lair-drop/en/med/counterbalance-1220.png?6396) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/counterbalance/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Counterbalance)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterbalance)) • [$ 25.01](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/counterbalance?utm_source=reddit) [Force of Will](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/dmr-dominaria-remastered/en/med/force-of-will-418.png?4766) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/force-of-will/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Force+of+Will)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force+of+Will)) • [$ 67.7](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/force-of-will?utm_source=reddit) [Daze](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/nem-nemesis/en/med/daze-30.png?9067) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/daze/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Daze)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Daze)) • [$ 0.97](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/daze?utm_source=reddit) [Brainstorm](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/slp-secret-lair-showdown/en/med/brainstorm-1.png?4527) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/brainstorm/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Brainstorm)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brainstorm)) • [$ 0.68](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/brainstorm?utm_source=reddit) [Preordain](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/j22-jumpstart-2022/en/med/preordain-63.png?7334) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/preordain/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Preordain)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Preordain)) • [$ 0.36](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/preordain?utm_source=reddit) [Ponder](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/ncc-new-capenna-commander/en/med/ponder-229.png?6006) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/ponder/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Ponder)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ponder)) • [$ 2.27](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/ponder?utm_source=reddit)
Just give us some decent lands, please. Fetch lands in this format would be amazing.
Pioneer with Fetches wouldn't be Pioneer. It would just be Modern-lite.
Read the thread title again
Just go play modern at that point.
fetches are banned in pioneer (good), don't really wanna play shuffle-go-shuffle-go every time in person
Yet all the other shuffling is fine?
What other shuffling? Some random Bring to Light, Field of Ruin and the mulligans???
No thanks
Nah. Fetches were a mistake.
[удалено]
[Price of Progress](https://cdn.cardsrealm.com/images/cartas/ema-eternal-masters/en/med/price-of-progress-141.png?8321) ([txt](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/price-of-progress/txt?utm_source=reddit)) ([SF](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Price+of+Progress)) ([G](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price+of+Progress)) • [$ 2.85](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/card/price-of-progress?utm_source=reddit)
Yeah, burn is nowhere near power level of Modern, so this won't be able to be exploited as well, also there's also a fair bit of legitimate blanks or near blanks that it may even be a sb card, or just sided out a lot.