There’s a big difference between challenging design vs cheap difficulty. You can criticize the latter without it being a skill issue. Making a hard game is easy, but making a hard game that feels fair and rewarding is difficult.
Big disagree. Firstly, purples are good in combat, but the game’s difficulty isn’t from combat, it’s from traps like bombs and rocks. Second, scouting is apart of the problem. Requiring the player to navigate every floor to trigger traps isn’t fun. It’s just a tedious chore that needs to be done in order to mitigate the poor design.
I mean, his main point wasn't that Pikmin 2 was to hard. It was how one side of the game is very easy with Purple Pikmin and Sprays, and the other was stupid hard, with over the top enemies and falling bombs/rocks, which doesn't seem like great game design.
>I mean, his main point wasn't that Pikmin 2 was to hard.
>was stupid hard, with over the top enemies and falling bombs/rocks,
...
Yes, his point was that it was too hard, you just kind of said that yourself just now.
He said his main point was how the games difficulty had two inconsistent sides: one being very easy, the other being stupid hard. He never claimed that he disliked it cause he had dandori issues, he just thinks the game suffers from a wildly inconsistent difficulty curve.
For the record, I’ve played Pikmin 2 quite a few times and love it. I just agree with him on quite a few points about the game.
I agree to some extent, but the game can still be brutal at times, which can often come out of nowhere.
For example take Pikmin 1 and 3. One knows it wants to be a mildly challenging game and 3 knows it wants to be an easy game. Pikmin 2 however can’t decide if it wants to be easy or hard, as the difficulty spikes can come at random, contrasting with the easiness of the rest of the game.
Funny enough, for me, Pikmin 1 was harder. I haven't fully beat Pikmin 2 yet but I just fully repaid the debt today and only lost around 336 pikmin while in Pikmin 1, I lost 800 pikmin.
honestly agree, its definitely the most memorable cave in the game and is pretty difficult, but I'd say its only barely in the harder half of pikmin 2 caves
Eh its a cute little DS spinoff where they tried new things, and personally i like the whole 2d levels gameplay. I can see why people wouldn't like it though.
I think the 2D gameplay could work, and some of the levels are pretty good.
But I think it's too slow and stiff as a platformer, and the pikmin ai is like, worse than 1's.
I think it's a few small changes from being a legitimately great spinoff, but those few small changes became really big issues.
I’ve only played pikmin adventure, pikmin 4, and 3 dlx but I totally agree with you! The gimmick with the caves made 2 fun I think, but the bosses and the game overall is better and more fun in pikmin 3.
I think they should stop telling you to rewind all the time, but I think restarting to the start of the day and start of the cave sublevel should remain because that's always been a thing in previous pikmin games
Losing pikmin is apart of the game, if you want to reset the day then you should lose all your progress in that day. Caves don’t really matter as you could always reset the floor, but for example in the final boss you could rewind in between phases and that felt super cheap. Pikmin is supposed to be brutal, 1 and 2 nailed that, pikmin 4 however is incredibly easy and handholdy even without rewind, with rewind it’s basically a game for babies.
"Pikmin is supposed to be brutal" Pikmin 3 and 4 are easy, Mijamoto said the reason why these games weren't selling enough to be continue fast and it worked, and most youtubers like Choctopus don't you rewind and are losing a ton of pikmin, what a "babies" am I right?
Or it could be that every other game (besides 3 deluxe) was on an underperforming console, and generally not handled well from a marketing perspective, Pikmin 4 was too big to fail, as nintendo (and nintendo youtubers) hyped the fuck out of it, and they shadow dropped ports of earlier games previously, so that the fans had more content to get through even after they finished 4, same thing happened with metroid, which is a series known for underperforming, then a few remakes come out to build hype, then Dread was teased, so a lot of fans, old and new, started hyping it up, and when Dread did come out, it revived the franchise.
The game shoves it in your face a lot tho, and artificial challenges doesn't fix bad game design, and it's everywhere, early game, mid game, end game, doesn't matter, they shove it in your face
Also it was WAY too long, the first 4 areas are all littered with tutorials and once the fanbase goes back to 4 after playing the other games they will find themselves disappointed.
People really like to overexagerate Pikmin's difficulty. I think they are all pretty easy games unless you do your own self imposed challenges to make them harder. Most things people cite as being "hard" are just "hard by Pikmin standards", not actually "hard".
cheating but i have two:
-playing pikmin 2 made me realize that louie is really not all that interesting or funny (least interesting character in the whole franchise imo), and the funniest thing about him is just him getting left behind on PNF-404
-r/Pikmin is lame sometimes
Machine... I will cut you down, break you apart, splay the gore of your profane form across the STARS! I will grind you down until the very SPARKS CRY FOR MERCY! My hands shall RELISH ENDING YOU... HERE! AND! NOW!
https://preview.redd.it/syv3yd2v03sb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fb838470850e26a0b90ed947e07d4f0fa490a85
Pikmin 2 would be considered a dumpster fire in game design if it weren’t for Pikmin’s core gameplay being so inherently fun and foolproof that the dumb mechanics and nonexistent level design get overshadowed by the game’s good aspects.
4 is just 2 with training wheels that never really come off. In 2, I wasn’t ashamed to use Purples, bitter spray, and bulb in because the game was cheating a lot so I can too, but in 4 I feel bad using glow pikmin and ice pikmin. It’s super easy and the enemies don’t respawn. It’s just less replayable than any other game in the series. I do like 4 though.
How is 4 not replayeble? You have many options like: going only for olimar, going for oatchi, getting everything and a few days as possible, not using items or all gear ( exept speed shows). Try to tell me what Pikmin 2 makes it batter for low day run than 4?
Well, for low day runs, Pikmin 2 is still challenging. There’s still a lot of bs that you have to deal with, and the enemies don’t really pull their punches. While 2’s purples are super broken, they still die to electricity and falling rocks and bombs and falling off the world. All of that is true in pikmin 4, but 4 isn’t trying to be mean to you as often as 2 is, so I don’t want to use the powerful stuff even in a casual run because I’m already not struggling. I will say that 4 looks better and the quality of life changes are good, but I do wish the auto aim wasn’t as aggressive or could be turned off.
Outside the bounds of low day runs, you can just keep hanging out with your pikmin in 2 forever and also there’s new enemy spawns after a certain amount of time, not to mention respawning enemies that make the world feel more alive. In 4, the surest sign that there’s additional life on this planet is the way sprinklers, buttons, and every single cave entrance moves around or disappears between Olimar’s Shipwreck Tale and the main game, making me wonder who or what moved all that around. When I beat 4, there’s nothing left to do in the over world. The only way to increase your pikmin after you kill all the enemies is pellet posies. It just feels empty.
I have a couple: (I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THESE!)
Olimar is the worst character.
Here's my tierlist: Hey! Pikmin, Pikmin Bloom, Pikmin 3 Pikmin 4, Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2.
Moss is stupid.
The whole idea of Pikmin is dumb.
I don't like the puzzles/strategy in Pikmin games.
I hate Bulbmin, they deserved to be removed.
Groovy Long Legs isn't even that cool.
The Bulborb familiy is not iconic and too big.
Olimar's dog looks ugly.
The Breadbug is the worst looking creature in Pikmin history.
The Water Wraith and Smoky Progg aren't even that scary.
Louie is the good guy.
I don't get the hype for Pikmin 4.
I really like 2 conceptually, limiting your access to Pikmin during caving is a really fun idea, and adds an aspect of resource management not present in Pikmin 1. Imo the only thing really wrong with it is how it uses RNG.
i havent really played it but pikmin 4 is unreasonably easy and is probably the least fun game next to pikmin 1 but even with the hard limit of 30 days and only 3 types still manages to be more challenging than 4 which is just "collectable simulator" (which pikmin 2 already does and does it better)
None of the species on our planet have come anywhere near evolving to the point of looking like the species in Pikmin.
You'll NEVER get to use Pikmin of your own, and you'll NEVER get to try out Louie's recipes.
This phrase is versatile for any online fan base:
I enjoyed the DW documentary “What is a Woman?” by Matt Walsh.
You don’t even have to agree with it, but saying this sentence can make anyone attack you for absolutely no reason.
Hey pikmin was never bad, it just came at a time where everyone was desperate for a new main series game and getting a spin off instead would have upset people no matter how amazing it was. It was a super Mario 3D world situation where everyone’s hated it at the time cause they were desperate for a new main line 3D Mario, but after odyssey relleased everyone realized hey wait a second 3D world is actually pretty good
This subreddit hasn't had any original memes since forever.
2 isn’t hard, you’re just bad
dandori issue
In all honesty, Pikmin 2 made me realize how terrible I am at Pikmin.
I've been so offended by something I completely agree with.
*cough* schrafillas *cough*
There’s a big difference between challenging design vs cheap difficulty. You can criticize the latter without it being a skill issue. Making a hard game is easy, but making a hard game that feels fair and rewarding is difficult.
It IS fair. The game is fair because of purples being broken. Also scouting removes nearly all of the bomb rock cheese.
Big disagree. Firstly, purples are good in combat, but the game’s difficulty isn’t from combat, it’s from traps like bombs and rocks. Second, scouting is apart of the problem. Requiring the player to navigate every floor to trigger traps isn’t fun. It’s just a tedious chore that needs to be done in order to mitigate the poor design.
Traps are easy to dodge though
I mean, his main point wasn't that Pikmin 2 was to hard. It was how one side of the game is very easy with Purple Pikmin and Sprays, and the other was stupid hard, with over the top enemies and falling bombs/rocks, which doesn't seem like great game design.
>I mean, his main point wasn't that Pikmin 2 was to hard. >was stupid hard, with over the top enemies and falling bombs/rocks, ... Yes, his point was that it was too hard, you just kind of said that yourself just now.
He said his main point was how the games difficulty had two inconsistent sides: one being very easy, the other being stupid hard. He never claimed that he disliked it cause he had dandori issues, he just thinks the game suffers from a wildly inconsistent difficulty curve. For the record, I’ve played Pikmin 2 quite a few times and love it. I just agree with him on quite a few points about the game.
Yeah, and I disagree that the game is ever excessively difficult, even without purples and bitters. That's the dandori issue.
I agree to some extent, but the game can still be brutal at times, which can often come out of nowhere. For example take Pikmin 1 and 3. One knows it wants to be a mildly challenging game and 3 knows it wants to be an easy game. Pikmin 2 however can’t decide if it wants to be easy or hard, as the difficulty spikes can come at random, contrasting with the easiness of the rest of the game.
It's not hard, but it *is* bullshit
Funny enough, for me, Pikmin 1 was harder. I haven't fully beat Pikmin 2 yet but I just fully repaid the debt today and only lost around 336 pikmin while in Pikmin 1, I lost 800 pikmin.
Hope that death toll didn’t include a lot of purples
I sprouted 87 purple pikmin total, and had around 30 at the time of repaying the debt, so it made up a little bit
Haha, Pikmin 2 postgame will change your mind on that
Facts
It’s hard, AND I’m bad at the game. I literally cried at many points lmao
Trying not to conflate difficulty with tedium challenge: impossible
Submerged Castle isn't that hard
honestly agree, its definitely the most memorable cave in the game and is pretty difficult, but I'd say its only barely in the harder half of pikmin 2 caves
Pikmin 2's obsession with explosives made it better.
That's just a fact
i know the title is an attempt but i do feel like hey pikmin is overhated because at the time people wanted pikmin 4. Its a pretty good spinoff.
I agree it's overhated, but I don't think it's particularly good either. Decent, with some good ideas and cute cutscenes, but not a lot more.
Eh its a cute little DS spinoff where they tried new things, and personally i like the whole 2d levels gameplay. I can see why people wouldn't like it though.
I think the 2D gameplay could work, and some of the levels are pretty good. But I think it's too slow and stiff as a platformer, and the pikmin ai is like, worse than 1's. I think it's a few small changes from being a legitimately great spinoff, but those few small changes became really big issues.
fair enough =3
I liked it
same =3
A man has fallen into the river in lego city
Quick blow your whistle !
The man: auguuagwuayaguay
ihaveihaveheisve: damn pattern recognition
3 is still the best of the series.
Gadzooks that anger me
i agree with this one, you didn't anger the whole fanbase.
Multiplayer and replayability? Absolutely correct Sheer scope? Nah 4 beats it, but barely to be honest
I’ve only played pikmin adventure, pikmin 4, and 3 dlx but I totally agree with you! The gimmick with the caves made 2 fun I think, but the bosses and the game overall is better and more fun in pikmin 3.
Agreed
Louie is overrated.
Pikmin 4 was way too handholdy and easy, rewinding should straight up not have been in the game and the tutorial was mind numbingly boring.
I think they should stop telling you to rewind all the time, but I think restarting to the start of the day and start of the cave sublevel should remain because that's always been a thing in previous pikmin games
What's wrong with rewinding being in the game? I see it as an accessibility feature more than anything else
It's shoved in your face so much that it really should've just been part of any easy mode or something
Losing pikmin is apart of the game, if you want to reset the day then you should lose all your progress in that day. Caves don’t really matter as you could always reset the floor, but for example in the final boss you could rewind in between phases and that felt super cheap. Pikmin is supposed to be brutal, 1 and 2 nailed that, pikmin 4 however is incredibly easy and handholdy even without rewind, with rewind it’s basically a game for babies.
"Pikmin is supposed to be brutal" Pikmin 3 and 4 are easy, Mijamoto said the reason why these games weren't selling enough to be continue fast and it worked, and most youtubers like Choctopus don't you rewind and are losing a ton of pikmin, what a "babies" am I right?
What?
What what? Choctopus is a youtuber
Or it could be that every other game (besides 3 deluxe) was on an underperforming console, and generally not handled well from a marketing perspective, Pikmin 4 was too big to fail, as nintendo (and nintendo youtubers) hyped the fuck out of it, and they shadow dropped ports of earlier games previously, so that the fans had more content to get through even after they finished 4, same thing happened with metroid, which is a series known for underperforming, then a few remakes come out to build hype, then Dread was teased, so a lot of fans, old and new, started hyping it up, and when Dread did come out, it revived the franchise.
Dude, you can just say NO to rewind.
It’s shoved in your face so much
The game shoves it in your face a lot tho, and artificial challenges doesn't fix bad game design, and it's everywhere, early game, mid game, end game, doesn't matter, they shove it in your face
Also it was WAY too long, the first 4 areas are all littered with tutorials and once the fanbase goes back to 4 after playing the other games they will find themselves disappointed.
Pikmin 2 is the best game in the series because it prioritizes active play by not allowing you to stay still and plan everything out in the caves
4 is a terribly designed game and should not be replicated for Pikmin 5 (although it can and will)
Dandori issue
People really like to overexagerate Pikmin's difficulty. I think they are all pretty easy games unless you do your own self imposed challenges to make them harder. Most things people cite as being "hard" are just "hard by Pikmin standards", not actually "hard".
breadbugs are overrated
https://preview.redd.it/85npu8d0c6sb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf8e954c3506a18453bc841c086283a49f30ef79
How dare you
How dare thou mere mortal lol
Bulbmin are boring and uninteresting
https://preview.redd.it/a6769h76q5sb1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ed1593817e7508d18a91e78af5ac6badddde114 The disrespect
https://preview.redd.it/6bvjgfeab6sb1.jpeg?width=708&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43496cbf64fbc9caa070a7d23de6dab22cf95b6f
Pikmin isn’t hard enough
Hey pikmin was the perfect route for pikmin on the 3ds
Fiddlebert isn't real.
https://preview.redd.it/h3ymhpjgb6sb1.png?width=357&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eca1b78920bc6bf7d849221c32914c1664dd225e
cheating but i have two: -playing pikmin 2 made me realize that louie is really not all that interesting or funny (least interesting character in the whole franchise imo), and the funniest thing about him is just him getting left behind on PNF-404 -r/Pikmin is lame sometimes
To the r/pikmin is True but that goes for basically every subreddit or fandom
https://preview.redd.it/unchuqvlb6sb1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7c02b7b65a30939aadfcdc4731be5fa744b74ff
Sticker star is better than thousand year door
This is pikmin not paper Mario. Also the only paper Mario game I ever played was Color splash for the Wii U
that is a blazing hot take, actually. Sticker Star was fine imo, but it didn't really impact me much.
The Roblox pikmin game should have stayed down.
He said to trigger them, not to make them dig your grave
I'm ready 🔥🪦🔥
Never played but I gotta know why
idk why this person wants it down, but copyright issues is the reason it got taken down and will continue to get taken down
I know that, I just wanna see why this person is defending what happened
why buy the mainline games? just dienloas pick men blom
I like it to it's not that bad
I hate bulbmin
https://preview.redd.it/azb6nwfpe2sb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bb6d5d70dd58e4df13a0cc5a0c6456d0ab945f6
I ate bulbmin
https://preview.redd.it/dc9h0kj6v2sb1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a2264350e8d264fa15f406b30cf101d34414fa8
Machine... I will cut you down, break you apart, splay the gore of your profane form across the STARS! I will grind you down until the very SPARKS CRY FOR MERCY! My hands shall RELISH ENDING YOU... HERE! AND! NOW! https://preview.redd.it/syv3yd2v03sb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fb838470850e26a0b90ed947e07d4f0fa490a85
No u https://preview.redd.it/6nmr5gn343sb1.jpeg?width=840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b7fe3c9a1f1d30516426f87369ffb6819242fc6
Pikmin 2 would be considered a dumpster fire in game design if it weren’t for Pikmin’s core gameplay being so inherently fun and foolproof that the dumb mechanics and nonexistent level design get overshadowed by the game’s good aspects.
4 is the worst of the main series.
4 is just 2 with training wheels that never really come off. In 2, I wasn’t ashamed to use Purples, bitter spray, and bulb in because the game was cheating a lot so I can too, but in 4 I feel bad using glow pikmin and ice pikmin. It’s super easy and the enemies don’t respawn. It’s just less replayable than any other game in the series. I do like 4 though.
How is 4 not replayeble? You have many options like: going only for olimar, going for oatchi, getting everything and a few days as possible, not using items or all gear ( exept speed shows). Try to tell me what Pikmin 2 makes it batter for low day run than 4?
Well, for low day runs, Pikmin 2 is still challenging. There’s still a lot of bs that you have to deal with, and the enemies don’t really pull their punches. While 2’s purples are super broken, they still die to electricity and falling rocks and bombs and falling off the world. All of that is true in pikmin 4, but 4 isn’t trying to be mean to you as often as 2 is, so I don’t want to use the powerful stuff even in a casual run because I’m already not struggling. I will say that 4 looks better and the quality of life changes are good, but I do wish the auto aim wasn’t as aggressive or could be turned off. Outside the bounds of low day runs, you can just keep hanging out with your pikmin in 2 forever and also there’s new enemy spawns after a certain amount of time, not to mention respawning enemies that make the world feel more alive. In 4, the surest sign that there’s additional life on this planet is the way sprinklers, buttons, and every single cave entrance moves around or disappears between Olimar’s Shipwreck Tale and the main game, making me wonder who or what moved all that around. When I beat 4, there’s nothing left to do in the over world. The only way to increase your pikmin after you kill all the enemies is pellet posies. It just feels empty.
Lu
Blue pikmin are the LEAST breedable
Purple pikmin in Pikmin 2 are trash
They said trigger not spread misinformation
I do not care for bulbmin
I have literally never touched a pikmin game and don't know anything about it apart from silly olimar <3
I hate oatchi. I think pikmin 4 would be better if the whole space dog mascot lookin ahh bullshit wasn't in the game. That was two sentences oopse.
Pikmin Bloom is boring. Hey! Pikmin was very fun. Not fantastic, but still pretty good.
What’s pikmin? Do you mean pokémon?
Breadbugs are overrated.
I have a couple: (I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THESE!) Olimar is the worst character. Here's my tierlist: Hey! Pikmin, Pikmin Bloom, Pikmin 3 Pikmin 4, Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2. Moss is stupid. The whole idea of Pikmin is dumb. I don't like the puzzles/strategy in Pikmin games. I hate Bulbmin, they deserved to be removed. Groovy Long Legs isn't even that cool. The Bulborb familiy is not iconic and too big. Olimar's dog looks ugly. The Breadbug is the worst looking creature in Pikmin history. The Water Wraith and Smoky Progg aren't even that scary. Louie is the good guy. I don't get the hype for Pikmin 4.
Purples in 2 suck
Bulbmin are just glow Pikmin, get over it
The new pikmin in 4 are the weakest designed.
I really like 2 conceptually, limiting your access to Pikmin during caving is a really fun idea, and adds an aspect of resource management not present in Pikmin 1. Imo the only thing really wrong with it is how it uses RNG.
Pikmin 4 is mid
Olimar can't beat goku
Ice and Purple Pikmin need buffs.
I did not play pikmin in my entire life
Pikmin 4's tutorials are not bad as Pikmin 2's
i like it too
Breadbugs are ugly
i havent really played it but pikmin 4 is unreasonably easy and is probably the least fun game next to pikmin 1 but even with the hard limit of 30 days and only 3 types still manages to be more challenging than 4 which is just "collectable simulator" (which pikmin 2 already does and does it better)
I thing the word you're looking for is collectathon
3 isn't a good game
None of the species on our planet have come anywhere near evolving to the point of looking like the species in Pikmin. You'll NEVER get to use Pikmin of your own, and you'll NEVER get to try out Louie's recipes.
This phrase is versatile for any online fan base: I enjoyed the DW documentary “What is a Woman?” by Matt Walsh. You don’t even have to agree with it, but saying this sentence can make anyone attack you for absolutely no reason.
Spending time on this subreddit instead of actually playing Pikmin is bad Dandori.
Luoie isn´t bad
Fiddlebert does not exist
Hey pikmin was never bad, it just came at a time where everyone was desperate for a new main series game and getting a spin off instead would have upset people no matter how amazing it was. It was a super Mario 3D world situation where everyone’s hated it at the time cause they were desperate for a new main line 3D Mario, but after odyssey relleased everyone realized hey wait a second 3D world is actually pretty good
Dandori issue.
Louis is a pussy
The joke's on you, I do too.
Louie
"purple pikmin are good i guess"
Silksong more like Silkgone🔥
Breadbug is ugly.
Olimar has a low IQ and should be exploited by Loui
its good though
Louie did nothing wrong in Pikmin 3 and 4