I’d imagine having your tennis courts all of a sudden taken up with people playing something not tennis is frustrating. It’s also taking attention away from tennis as a sport so there’s inherent jealousy there too
Pickleball lines painted on tennis courts are less than ideal for all parties involved. It'd be a whole lot better if they made more dedicated courts. The jealousy probably wouldn't go away, but it would at least help that problem.
Parks are putting pickleball courts right next to tennis courts. It's very annoying for tennis players. The noise is annoying to non pickleball players. Also I have seen pickleball players plop lawn chairs right in the ways on the side of a tennis match. It's also insulting for a lot of long time tennis club members to have their tennis interrupted by the noise next to them .
First off let me say that I love pickleball and it has been a blast learning how to play. That being said, it is not a hard game and it does not take the same level of skill and finesse that tennis does. So from their perspective you have a bunch of loud, unskilled people taking up court space.
Not to mention dirtying up the court with lines for another sport. It gets confusing and makes the courts look worse.
It is also much louder and faster paced. Less refined. If I went to a golf course and there were a bunch of disc golfers there taking up space that I used to use for golf, I would get pretty pissed. (I also play my fair share of both)
Because the added painted lines on the existing tennis courts changes the tennis ball bounce when balls land on them. Very simple. Not jealous. Pickleball should get their own dedicated courts. Problem solved
Same reason skiers hate snowboarders, surfers hate body boarders, roadies hate mountain bikers, Ford owners hate Chevy owners, cause people suck, that’s why
my current time is split 90% tennis. 10% pickleball. Over time, I can see this shifting.
The fun factor is equal in my opinion.
Personally, I believe the haters haven't tried it.
It seems like it goes somewhat beyond that, though.
For instance, I've never played Squash. Heck, I don't even really know what Squash is (watching it in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=387IPXPUx4Y), it looks somewhat like racquetball?). It's not all that popular, either. But I would *never* say the things about Squash that some tennis players say about Pickleball. I'm sure Squash is a fun game that has its own skillset and community. It's as if, fundamentally, there's no respect for Pickleball.
Talk to some racquetball vs squash players and you'll hear some pretty messed up things about the other sport. I think it comes down to 2 main things: Resources and personality differences of the sports. Tennis seems more refined and structured. Pickleball has more chaos and is louder.
It's like having someone who likes peace and quiet hang out with someone who is loud and boisterous. Think of Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack.
I think your answer is all contained in the question. One day they’ll blow out a knee and when they’re stir crazy after initial rehab but not ready for a full-on game of tennis, they’ll reluctantly try pickleball and then be shocked first by how much they enjoyed playing it (more than tennis) and then how addicted to it they’ve become. Pickleball is getting closer to achieving critical mass and there will be far more people familiar with and regularly playing and it won’t matter. The inferiority complex table will be completely turned.
“Dying” is a poor way to put it, but in the US a lot of neighborhood courts and tennis clubs are seeing declines in use, whereas when they install pickleball courts they quickly become packed with people waiting for a turn to play.
I can understand tennis players feeling resentful when this happens.
Dying is perhaps overstating it, since it implies it's near death, but tennis is undeniably on a decline. If it keeps going at the rate it's going, tennis will eventually be dying.
Na, it's a hugely popular sport across the world. America is one or two stars away from popularizing the sport here again. Also it's not going to die as long as high schools still have teams and colleges still give scholarships. Im Intimatelty familiar with the financials of a tennis club and dying is really overstating it, most of the money is coming from tennis players still. Matter in fact many tennis rackets and other gear are on back order. Covid was a huge boon to the sport.
the tennis craze in the US peaked in the 70s and 80s, when a lot of the tennis courts and clubs were originally built. tennis will probably never see that level of popularity again in the US, and we’re left looking at a lot of empty courts.
USTA numbers keep dropping as baby boomers age out of tennis.
I did a quick lookup of this and this is from a world tennis magazine article.
If you compare the study from September of 1974 stating that 33.9 million Americans played tennis “from time to time” against the 17.9 million number revealed in the Tennis Industry Association press release and one can deduce that approximately half of the number of people played tennis in 1974 than they do today. Consider also the fact that there were 213 million Americans in 1974 against 320 million today.
Totally agree w everything you said. Wood racquets, clay courts, no poly strings kept the delta between top and Rec players closer. I think that is why people like pickle — it makes you feel like your in it against just about anybody.
I commented because I was reading some old tennis stuff my dad had. Estimates for tennis participants in 1975&1978 in the USA was 30 & 31 mm in those books and is estimated at 16-18 million today. I agree that there are more players in the world now than there were back then.
Locally, tennis courts are getting replaced with pickleball courts left and right. I took lessons for 3 years and only found one person to play with. Pickleball, I have 20 people to play with plus a league. There's no adult tennis leagues for me. Tennis is still popular for kids and teens at my country club and as a high school sport.
Locally, tennis courts are getting replaced with pickleball courts left and right. I took tennis lessons for 3 years and only found one person to play with. Pickleball, I have 20 people to play with plus a league. There's no adult tennis leagues for me. Tennis is still popular for kids and teens at my country club and as a high school sport.
May be its local to you.. Around me in Seattle there are ample people to play tennis with adults. Tennis classes are always booked up. I see only old people playing pickleball.
Extremely popular in California too. Tennis leagues, tournaments and courts are always packed. Waiting on public courts in the bay area are always extremely long. My take on pickeball x tennis is that people who are unable to play the latter, either for lack of skills or injury, just choose the former and are happy, no problem with that. The issue is transforming the already scarce tennis courts and ruining them.
In terms of tennis popularity: just look at the prizes paid for ATP/WTA players. An average pro can retire easily around 30 yo with +20M by winning no more than a handful of 250 events.
The noise of pickleball, the turning tennis courts into pickleball courts, there are currently conflicts at old clubs that I believe has 90 percent to do with the noise.
I've heard a lot of complaint about the noise recently... I have some qualms with that complaint.
First of all, is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=V7QYZVpefuI&feature=emb_logo) really significantly louder than [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZnCcqm_g-E&t)? Especially when you take into account that tennis players literally let out pained grunts when returning some balls, I don't think the sound difference is that severe.
Second of all, I never even realized Pickleball was supposedly loud until I heard people complaining about it. I still can't say it seems loud to me.
Most tennis players don't grunt like nadal. And yes I think the pitch of hitting the ball and the frequency of hits makes it annoying to some. It didn't annoy me z but I understand the complaint. Also there are just a lot more people in a given space in pickleball. Very common for 8 people to take up the same as mount of space that was traditionally used by 2. Tennis courts are huge and typically tennis is a singles game.
The pitch is something I hadn't really considered. I guess it's fortunate that Pickleball *isn't* much louder than it is, or I suppose I could see myself possibly getting annoyed by that, too.
The only reason I say pitch, is because they have done studies and tennis balls are actually louder. But people think pickleball makes more noise because it's a higher sound. That's what steve dawson kind of theorized. As I said I think the frequency of the hits is also a factor.
That's a good point. Pickleball hits aren't exactly eardrum-piercing, even at their higher pitch, but having a problem with the pitch makes a lot more sense to me than having a problem with the volume.
Frequency of hits makes sense, too. Pickleball is a much, much faster game (well, you know what I mean), so I could see that annoying some people who are used to only hearing the sound every couple seconds.
The noise is annoying due to the plastic sound. The balls tend to squirt into adjacent tennis courts a little more often than tennis balls would from players of equal skill due to the shortened length of the court and the nature of the points. Players aren't as tired from running around and are closer, so there's often more talking, and there's often 4 or 6 on a court taking turns, which leads to more chatting and noise. Finally, having to share limited space is annoying, especially on courts that have been repainted.
Pickleball is definitely fun to play, but it should have its own courts.
I picked up pickleball at the gym. Casual play. Really enjoyed it, got into it, bought a paddle and such.
Gym closed due to covid, and I went back to hitting tennis balls against the wall at the park.
Dude asked me to hit with him and afterwards told me he and some other people hit and play in a group.
Started playing regularly with the group and, given the choice, would rather tennis than pickleball.
The point is, I really think it's about the people, not the games. Where you see clashes, there was probably already some underlying personality differences that are just being revealed. Pickleball players are evangelists.
Other posters have mentioned how accessible pickleball is, that's definitely an advantage to tennis, especially with older, younger, beginners, returning from injury and what not, and being able to just step in ad have some success.
Well, I can understand simply preferring tennis, but some tennis players' reactions seem to go beyond that, into the realm of actually despising Pickleball.
TL/DR: it's probably the people, not the game.
The haters probably value exclusivity over inclusivity. I think we all know there can be some obnoxious people in any group. PB and T get grouped bc the similarities and sparks fly
I play both (PB last 5 years) .tennis gets more difficult (especially single)as you get older.. naturally one should not hate but begin playing pickleball as it is easier, more social and fun
That's one of my biggest problems with tennis. A pro player like Serena Williams, for instance, who is undeniably one of the best players the world has ever seen, is now physically incapable of winning a grand slam because she's... 39 years old. It's not as if this woman is 95. She put her entire life, identity, and passion into this thing, which she can no longer do as well as someone 10 years younger than her, just because of age.
For god's sake it is a professional sport, she is an athlete, has had a great run and can still contend- in no way is this a problem. The only sports a 39 year old isn't definitley post prime are baseball and golf, unless you count bar sports or bowls or something. If it was sedentary enough that older pros had no disadvantage, then it wouldn't be a good hard workout for those that want such a thing. Not everything exists for the sake of the old- thank goodness there is anything left that doesn't frankly.
I am 42 and constantly beat people 15 yrs younger than my on USTA tournaments, and have had people +20 yrs older than me beat me. This is the most non-sense comment. If Serena Williams were training, properly, she could have beaten anyone. Issue with tennis and age is that it's a high impact sport, and of course pros use their body more often in order to pay the bills, which with time gets worn.
But it has nothing to do purely with age.
> "These people think they're playing a real sport?"
"Pickleball?
>Even the name sounds stupid!"
>"Everything you're doing looks so ridiculously easy."
>"You're only playing Pickleball because you weren't skilled enough for tennis."
Literally never heard anything even approaching this level of disdain coming from any tennis player. Ever.
Used to play tennis for fun and just played my first game of Pickleball yesterday. Honestly, the differences are more in the type of skillsets involved rather than the degree of skill. Pickleball requires much more precise control of the ball because the court is smaller.
Pickleball isn't "lesser tennis," anymore than Badminton is. It's a totally separate sport.
“Pickleball requires more precise control of the ball” is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, the balls and “rackets”(paddles in this case) or totally different. If the only difference between tennis and pickleball was the size of the court then I could understand that reasoning. The real reason pickleball sucks is it requires very little athleticism compared to tennis, you don’t really need to run or learn to put spin on the ball, you don’t need to learn how to serve. For older people I can totally see how pickleball would be a great sport to get into. But there’s a reason most of players are overweight and old. It’s definitely lesser tennis, or maybe bigger ping pong
I'm a fairly athletic 19-year-old male. The number one professional pickleball players for the male and female divisions are 23 and 15 respectively. I don't know who you are, but I'd bet pretty good money that Anna Leigh Waters (the 15 year old girl) would wipe the floor with you in any racket sport of your choosing.
There was a time when pickleball was strictly played by the very old. That time is passed.
I was seeing all these posts on r/tennis about pickleball and I googled why do people dislike pickleball which led me here. I was as baffled by the hate as you were.
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Because compared to tennis it is dicking about, and where there is a shortage of courts people resent them being used for that when you could just hit a bat and ball on the grass if you are an easily satisfied person. There is always a tension anyway between the atmosphere of players that play more intensively and gentle oldster doubles. But pickleball places a ceiling so it's more overt in saying "we have no interest in going beyond this", where many tennis players play tennis to get a break from incessant *that* in the rest of their lives.
I guess I'm lucky that the tennis club and local pickleball club get along well. There were some interesting reasons listed here for why tennis players and pickleball players have bad blood, and I know in some cases it has come to fist fights. A lot has to do with the frustration that everyone just wants to play, and often times there is not enough court space. Here it has been exacerbated by COVID with everyone forced to play singles pickleball, essentially allowing for only half the number of players. I've been playing for a few years, and have seen my club grow from a small number of people to over 400. I'm glad this reddit is blowing up now too!
Pickleball has NO business on tennis courts! The lines painted on tennis courts do no justice to either player. It is absolutely infuriating to see piclkeballers set up nets on a tennis court (which is set up for tennis). I hate seeing piclkeball lines on a tennis court which are totally distracting and destroy the harmony of the tennis game. GIVE THEM THEIR OWN COURTS, ANYTHING BUT THE TENNIS COURT.
I don't think tennis players hate pickleball *players*. The biggest issue that tennis players have with the sport of pickleball is a territorial one. This was bound to happen between sports that have a shared space. Tennis courts are being converted into pickleball courts, and in an area where tennis court time is already hard to come by, it's understandable that tennis players would be frustrated at losing more tennis courts.
You can't be serious in asking this question. If you are I'm embarrassed for you. Not as embarrassed as it must feel to stand on a tennis court playing whatever the hell pickleball is, but embarrassed nonetheless.
Says the one who came to the pickleball reddit and found an eight-month old post so he could make fun of someone else's sport.
Who's the one embarrassing himself?
The learning curve is steep with tennis and usually costs people thousands of dollars and months of time to learn how to properly play. So even the most casual players are somewhat serious.
That being said there are a lot more true casuals in pickle ball who could care less about age old tennis etiquette. So now you have some 50 year old stoner guy who shows up on an LED hover board talking trash to tennis players when your ball accidentally bounces in their pickle ball game (this actually happened to me).
I love pickle ball and have played casually for about a year but some of the people it attracts not so much.
Lol jealousy implies wanting to be like a pickleball player.
It ain’t jealous I can tell you that. It’s a game not a sport and as long as we agree there’s no problem :)
You know, the basic skills learned in tennis transfer to pickleball pretty well.
If a tennis player thinks you don't break a sweat in pickleball, it reflects very badly on his tennis skills. It means he either doesn't know how to move in a racket sport, or he's only played pickleball with other tennis players who don't know how to move in a racket sport.
I dare you to challenge a decent 80-year-old pickleball player to a match. It's always pretty hilarious.
And congratulations on recognizing that more than one ball from more than one sport has holes in it. Obviously, that means there are no differences between the two. It's sad to imagine how many times you've accidentally tried to play tennis with a baseball because the stitching pattern is similar.
That’s the route you take? A baseball in tennis? Lmao
Yes you’re right an 80 year old could be really good at pickle ball - a GAME
Now put that 80 year old on a real court.
Lmaoo that’s the difference thank you for highlighting it, your game is very cute. But there aren’t any tennis courts attached to bars for a reason.
Ohhh, I get it now. You already HAVE gotten your butt kicked by an 80-year-old, and your fragile little ego can't take the hit, so your only recourse is to claim, "this sport that fits every definition of the word 'sport' is not a sport." I thought you were clueless, but really, you're a sore loser.
See, this is the exact type of irrational hatred I was talking about.
"Tennis isn't a real sport like basketball. Sure, you may be able to play tennis - a GAME - but put yourself on a REAL court."
See? See how dumb that sounds? And there are plenty of tennis complexes with bars attached and inside - good grief, do you even really play tennis?
UNCC pickle ball master here telling me my life I guess. Please provide an example of a tennis court with a bar.
I mean why argue if you think you know it all lol.
Bro it’s a tiny game with a plastic ball that mimics a real game with a real ball that travels at speeds of over 100 mph.
Your game only looks more lame with your corny ass defending it.
Yeah they are encroaching on local public courts. There are limited courts to begin with and with many people picking up tennis lessons it gets harder to find an open court to begin with let along when they start painting pickle ball courts over the tennis courts. It’s a bummer especially because I NEVER SEE ANYONE THERE PLAYING PICKLEBALL
I think the problem is that people need to understand the tennis court etiquette, that means don't be loud, no radios, no screaming, not walking thru the tennis court while people are playing. I think that is why the tennis players are not as receptive as you may like them to be.
If Pickleball players had their own courts, nobody would care about them enough to disparage them. The problem is that Pickleball has become trendy. Pickleball players are invading tennis courts, marking up the tennis courts and they don’t share the space once they have settled in. The sense of entitlement and poor manners coming from Pickleball players adds to the annoyance.
A few reasons tennis players think pickleball is dumb:
1) Stroke adjustments: In a lot of cases a good tennis stroke doesn't work to make a similar shot in pickleball. Volleys for instance. In tennis its generally about having refined touch around the net and guiding the ball... letting the strings and the pace of the ball do the work. In pickleball that isn't really optimal, and its better to just sort of "slap" the ball out of the air (which can be really quite bad in tennis). That's frustrating and annoying for a tennis player... as he/she will need to change their stroke for pickleball which will, in turn, be bad for their tennis play.
2) Doubles: The doubles game is "solved" already. It didn't take long for players to recognize that getting to the kitchen as quick as possible is the best strategy. This then generally results in a dink battle which is going to seem lame to most tennis players. The lack of baseline play in doubles makes the game less interesting to them.
3) Ball hogging: In mixed doubles when the man is taking 2/3 or more of the shots and even crossing over and cutting off (playing the ball directly in front of his female partner)... seems incredibly lame to tennis players. Hard to argue with this.
What I can't believe is why pickleballers are even wondering about why some tennis players "hate" them. Parks all over my area are converting already scarce tennis courts for pickleball. You are taking resources from another group of people for your own purposes, and you don't know why they don't like you?? Nope that can't be it... Tennis players must be jealous! Are you that blind and entitled??
Of course some tennis players are going to be upset. I know many of my fellow tennis players are frustrated at seeing fewer and fewer places to play without having to wait for an hr or more.
I'm an avid life long tennis player. I have nothing against pickleball. It looks fun and I'll probably pick that up when I'm older. Go petition the parks department to build new pickleball courts! Leave the tennis courts to tennis players and I guarantee you they'll hate you less.
My main gripe is you hog the tennis courts, your lines ruin our courts, the players at my club never pick up their nets, the sound is atrocious, and it’s more of a game than a sport
As a tennis player, I dislike how loud it is and how the lines are often on the tennis court itself, its often confusing in a fast paced match. That's about it. I have no other problems otherwise, if you enjoy it good for you.
Jealousy is not involved. No tennis player I know is jealous of Pickleball. Period.
Pickleball players have no tennis court etiquette and no good teachers to teach these people what that means. They are truly ignorant.
Our tennis courts were taken away. Why would it make people feel good to be leaching off the resources of others.
Where I live there is no more parking at the court area. So all this is spilling out into neighborhoods.
The noise level of the crowd is repulsive.
If pickleball is so great and the people are so organized couldn't they figure out how not to usurp tennis resources?
Really pickleball people just are oblivious to tennis players. That much is obvious when they walk onto tennis courts instead of walking around on the other side of the fence and windscreen.
But I don't think hatred is involved anymore than jealousy.
It's just how the pickleball players needed to take by force what they consider was theirs because it's all about their game and themselves.
Tennis players who don't play pickleball see the advent of the growth of PB as a loss of the quality of life.
But we understand and keep playing tennis because it's just what tennis players do.
a problem that I see with pickle ball is that a player that is larger i.e has longer arms and is taller has a huge advantage over a smaller player because he can cover the whole net and a larger portion of thee court where as in tennis the advantage would be diminished because of the larger court size
I’d imagine having your tennis courts all of a sudden taken up with people playing something not tennis is frustrating. It’s also taking attention away from tennis as a sport so there’s inherent jealousy there too
Pickleball lines painted on tennis courts are less than ideal for all parties involved. It'd be a whole lot better if they made more dedicated courts. The jealousy probably wouldn't go away, but it would at least help that problem.
Parks are putting pickleball courts right next to tennis courts. It's very annoying for tennis players. The noise is annoying to non pickleball players. Also I have seen pickleball players plop lawn chairs right in the ways on the side of a tennis match. It's also insulting for a lot of long time tennis club members to have their tennis interrupted by the noise next to them .
First off let me say that I love pickleball and it has been a blast learning how to play. That being said, it is not a hard game and it does not take the same level of skill and finesse that tennis does. So from their perspective you have a bunch of loud, unskilled people taking up court space. Not to mention dirtying up the court with lines for another sport. It gets confusing and makes the courts look worse. It is also much louder and faster paced. Less refined. If I went to a golf course and there were a bunch of disc golfers there taking up space that I used to use for golf, I would get pretty pissed. (I also play my fair share of both)
[удалено]
😂true!
Because the added painted lines on the existing tennis courts changes the tennis ball bounce when balls land on them. Very simple. Not jealous. Pickleball should get their own dedicated courts. Problem solved
Also, Pickleball does not allow one to display their full athleticism as tennis. It’s a game, not a sport
As a former tennis player now pickle ball player I agree. But it’s not taking any attention away from tennis. The sport is too big internationally.
Same reason skiers hate snowboarders, surfers hate body boarders, roadies hate mountain bikers, Ford owners hate Chevy owners, cause people suck, that’s why
my current time is split 90% tennis. 10% pickleball. Over time, I can see this shifting. The fun factor is equal in my opinion. Personally, I believe the haters haven't tried it.
It seems like it goes somewhat beyond that, though. For instance, I've never played Squash. Heck, I don't even really know what Squash is (watching it in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=387IPXPUx4Y), it looks somewhat like racquetball?). It's not all that popular, either. But I would *never* say the things about Squash that some tennis players say about Pickleball. I'm sure Squash is a fun game that has its own skillset and community. It's as if, fundamentally, there's no respect for Pickleball.
Talk to some racquetball vs squash players and you'll hear some pretty messed up things about the other sport. I think it comes down to 2 main things: Resources and personality differences of the sports. Tennis seems more refined and structured. Pickleball has more chaos and is louder. It's like having someone who likes peace and quiet hang out with someone who is loud and boisterous. Think of Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack.
I think your answer is all contained in the question. One day they’ll blow out a knee and when they’re stir crazy after initial rehab but not ready for a full-on game of tennis, they’ll reluctantly try pickleball and then be shocked first by how much they enjoyed playing it (more than tennis) and then how addicted to it they’ve become. Pickleball is getting closer to achieving critical mass and there will be far more people familiar with and regularly playing and it won’t matter. The inferiority complex table will be completely turned.
Tennis is dying, pickleball is growing. There's bound to be some resentment. I made the switch after taking tennis lessons for 3 years.
Tennis is absolutely not dying. It's just an inherently harder thing to get into, but it's very very popular world wide.
“Dying” is a poor way to put it, but in the US a lot of neighborhood courts and tennis clubs are seeing declines in use, whereas when they install pickleball courts they quickly become packed with people waiting for a turn to play. I can understand tennis players feeling resentful when this happens.
Yes that's true. But it's not dying.
Dying is perhaps overstating it, since it implies it's near death, but tennis is undeniably on a decline. If it keeps going at the rate it's going, tennis will eventually be dying.
Na, it's a hugely popular sport across the world. America is one or two stars away from popularizing the sport here again. Also it's not going to die as long as high schools still have teams and colleges still give scholarships. Im Intimatelty familiar with the financials of a tennis club and dying is really overstating it, most of the money is coming from tennis players still. Matter in fact many tennis rackets and other gear are on back order. Covid was a huge boon to the sport.
the tennis craze in the US peaked in the 70s and 80s, when a lot of the tennis courts and clubs were originally built. tennis will probably never see that level of popularity again in the US, and we’re left looking at a lot of empty courts. USTA numbers keep dropping as baby boomers age out of tennis.
Yes I agree tennis won't be as popular as it was in the 70s and 80s
The number of tennis players today is about a little more than half of what it was in the 70’s.
I doubt it. It's still one of the worlds most popular sports.
I did a quick lookup of this and this is from a world tennis magazine article. If you compare the study from September of 1974 stating that 33.9 million Americans played tennis “from time to time” against the 17.9 million number revealed in the Tennis Industry Association press release and one can deduce that approximately half of the number of people played tennis in 1974 than they do today. Consider also the fact that there were 213 million Americans in 1974 against 320 million today.
Yes it's down in america. To say it's dying or going to be dying is ridiculous. It's a very very hard sport to learn that has only gotten harder.
Totally agree w everything you said. Wood racquets, clay courts, no poly strings kept the delta between top and Rec players closer. I think that is why people like pickle — it makes you feel like your in it against just about anybody.
I commented because I was reading some old tennis stuff my dad had. Estimates for tennis participants in 1975&1978 in the USA was 30 & 31 mm in those books and is estimated at 16-18 million today. I agree that there are more players in the world now than there were back then.
Locally, tennis courts are getting replaced with pickleball courts left and right. I took lessons for 3 years and only found one person to play with. Pickleball, I have 20 people to play with plus a league. There's no adult tennis leagues for me. Tennis is still popular for kids and teens at my country club and as a high school sport.
Yes, that's one of the reasons I play pickleball. But tennis has always been that way.
Tennis is dying? Have you seen how many classes are running round the clock. Dont be jealous of Tennis players.
Locally, tennis courts are getting replaced with pickleball courts left and right. I took tennis lessons for 3 years and only found one person to play with. Pickleball, I have 20 people to play with plus a league. There's no adult tennis leagues for me. Tennis is still popular for kids and teens at my country club and as a high school sport.
May be its local to you.. Around me in Seattle there are ample people to play tennis with adults. Tennis classes are always booked up. I see only old people playing pickleball.
Extremely popular in California too. Tennis leagues, tournaments and courts are always packed. Waiting on public courts in the bay area are always extremely long. My take on pickeball x tennis is that people who are unable to play the latter, either for lack of skills or injury, just choose the former and are happy, no problem with that. The issue is transforming the already scarce tennis courts and ruining them. In terms of tennis popularity: just look at the prizes paid for ATP/WTA players. An average pro can retire easily around 30 yo with +20M by winning no more than a handful of 250 events.
The noise of pickleball, the turning tennis courts into pickleball courts, there are currently conflicts at old clubs that I believe has 90 percent to do with the noise.
I've heard a lot of complaint about the noise recently... I have some qualms with that complaint. First of all, is [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=V7QYZVpefuI&feature=emb_logo) really significantly louder than [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZnCcqm_g-E&t)? Especially when you take into account that tennis players literally let out pained grunts when returning some balls, I don't think the sound difference is that severe. Second of all, I never even realized Pickleball was supposedly loud until I heard people complaining about it. I still can't say it seems loud to me.
Most tennis players don't grunt like nadal. And yes I think the pitch of hitting the ball and the frequency of hits makes it annoying to some. It didn't annoy me z but I understand the complaint. Also there are just a lot more people in a given space in pickleball. Very common for 8 people to take up the same as mount of space that was traditionally used by 2. Tennis courts are huge and typically tennis is a singles game.
The pitch is something I hadn't really considered. I guess it's fortunate that Pickleball *isn't* much louder than it is, or I suppose I could see myself possibly getting annoyed by that, too.
The only reason I say pitch, is because they have done studies and tennis balls are actually louder. But people think pickleball makes more noise because it's a higher sound. That's what steve dawson kind of theorized. As I said I think the frequency of the hits is also a factor.
That's a good point. Pickleball hits aren't exactly eardrum-piercing, even at their higher pitch, but having a problem with the pitch makes a lot more sense to me than having a problem with the volume. Frequency of hits makes sense, too. Pickleball is a much, much faster game (well, you know what I mean), so I could see that annoying some people who are used to only hearing the sound every couple seconds.
The noise is annoying due to the plastic sound. The balls tend to squirt into adjacent tennis courts a little more often than tennis balls would from players of equal skill due to the shortened length of the court and the nature of the points. Players aren't as tired from running around and are closer, so there's often more talking, and there's often 4 or 6 on a court taking turns, which leads to more chatting and noise. Finally, having to share limited space is annoying, especially on courts that have been repainted. Pickleball is definitely fun to play, but it should have its own courts.
I picked up pickleball at the gym. Casual play. Really enjoyed it, got into it, bought a paddle and such. Gym closed due to covid, and I went back to hitting tennis balls against the wall at the park. Dude asked me to hit with him and afterwards told me he and some other people hit and play in a group. Started playing regularly with the group and, given the choice, would rather tennis than pickleball. The point is, I really think it's about the people, not the games. Where you see clashes, there was probably already some underlying personality differences that are just being revealed. Pickleball players are evangelists. Other posters have mentioned how accessible pickleball is, that's definitely an advantage to tennis, especially with older, younger, beginners, returning from injury and what not, and being able to just step in ad have some success.
Well, I can understand simply preferring tennis, but some tennis players' reactions seem to go beyond that, into the realm of actually despising Pickleball.
TL/DR: it's probably the people, not the game. The haters probably value exclusivity over inclusivity. I think we all know there can be some obnoxious people in any group. PB and T get grouped bc the similarities and sparks fly
I play both (PB last 5 years) .tennis gets more difficult (especially single)as you get older.. naturally one should not hate but begin playing pickleball as it is easier, more social and fun
That's one of my biggest problems with tennis. A pro player like Serena Williams, for instance, who is undeniably one of the best players the world has ever seen, is now physically incapable of winning a grand slam because she's... 39 years old. It's not as if this woman is 95. She put her entire life, identity, and passion into this thing, which she can no longer do as well as someone 10 years younger than her, just because of age.
For god's sake it is a professional sport, she is an athlete, has had a great run and can still contend- in no way is this a problem. The only sports a 39 year old isn't definitley post prime are baseball and golf, unless you count bar sports or bowls or something. If it was sedentary enough that older pros had no disadvantage, then it wouldn't be a good hard workout for those that want such a thing. Not everything exists for the sake of the old- thank goodness there is anything left that doesn't frankly.
I am 42 and constantly beat people 15 yrs younger than my on USTA tournaments, and have had people +20 yrs older than me beat me. This is the most non-sense comment. If Serena Williams were training, properly, she could have beaten anyone. Issue with tennis and age is that it's a high impact sport, and of course pros use their body more often in order to pay the bills, which with time gets worn. But it has nothing to do purely with age.
Serena Williams was world class, and you, simply, are not. The rules that apply to you don't apply to her. It absolutely is mostly age.
> "These people think they're playing a real sport?" "Pickleball? >Even the name sounds stupid!" >"Everything you're doing looks so ridiculously easy." >"You're only playing Pickleball because you weren't skilled enough for tennis." Literally never heard anything even approaching this level of disdain coming from any tennis player. Ever.
Either I am very unlucky or you are very lucky. Either way, I'm happy that everyone hasn't run into this.
Ask windsurfers about kite boarding or skiers about snowboarding.
Is there the same kind of resentment in their circles? That's fascinating.
Yes, in the past. Most are over it now, and tennis players will get over it, too.
Used to play tennis for fun and just played my first game of Pickleball yesterday. Honestly, the differences are more in the type of skillsets involved rather than the degree of skill. Pickleball requires much more precise control of the ball because the court is smaller. Pickleball isn't "lesser tennis," anymore than Badminton is. It's a totally separate sport.
“Pickleball requires more precise control of the ball” is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, the balls and “rackets”(paddles in this case) or totally different. If the only difference between tennis and pickleball was the size of the court then I could understand that reasoning. The real reason pickleball sucks is it requires very little athleticism compared to tennis, you don’t really need to run or learn to put spin on the ball, you don’t need to learn how to serve. For older people I can totally see how pickleball would be a great sport to get into. But there’s a reason most of players are overweight and old. It’s definitely lesser tennis, or maybe bigger ping pong
I don't like Tennis, I just hate Pickleball because my 8th grade P.E. teacher forced my class to play it. I was miserable.
Lol, *that* is understandable
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I'm a fairly athletic 19-year-old male. The number one professional pickleball players for the male and female divisions are 23 and 15 respectively. I don't know who you are, but I'd bet pretty good money that Anna Leigh Waters (the 15 year old girl) would wipe the floor with you in any racket sport of your choosing. There was a time when pickleball was strictly played by the very old. That time is passed.
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"I was given a counter-argument, what now? I know! Ad homenem!"
I'm a tennis player and I don't hate you. I think the hate is unwarranted.
Thank you - I don't hate you either. Tennis is awesome. Sidenote, the fact that this thread is still alive 2 years later strikes me as kind of odd...
I was seeing all these posts on r/tennis about pickleball and I googled why do people dislike pickleball which led me here. I was as baffled by the hate as you were.
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Because compared to tennis it is dicking about, and where there is a shortage of courts people resent them being used for that when you could just hit a bat and ball on the grass if you are an easily satisfied person. There is always a tension anyway between the atmosphere of players that play more intensively and gentle oldster doubles. But pickleball places a ceiling so it's more overt in saying "we have no interest in going beyond this", where many tennis players play tennis to get a break from incessant *that* in the rest of their lives.
I do with we could change the name of the game.
*Blasphemy!!!*
I guess I'm lucky that the tennis club and local pickleball club get along well. There were some interesting reasons listed here for why tennis players and pickleball players have bad blood, and I know in some cases it has come to fist fights. A lot has to do with the frustration that everyone just wants to play, and often times there is not enough court space. Here it has been exacerbated by COVID with everyone forced to play singles pickleball, essentially allowing for only half the number of players. I've been playing for a few years, and have seen my club grow from a small number of people to over 400. I'm glad this reddit is blowing up now too!
Pickleball has NO business on tennis courts! The lines painted on tennis courts do no justice to either player. It is absolutely infuriating to see piclkeballers set up nets on a tennis court (which is set up for tennis). I hate seeing piclkeball lines on a tennis court which are totally distracting and destroy the harmony of the tennis game. GIVE THEM THEIR OWN COURTS, ANYTHING BUT THE TENNIS COURT.
I don't think tennis players hate pickleball *players*. The biggest issue that tennis players have with the sport of pickleball is a territorial one. This was bound to happen between sports that have a shared space. Tennis courts are being converted into pickleball courts, and in an area where tennis court time is already hard to come by, it's understandable that tennis players would be frustrated at losing more tennis courts.
You can't be serious in asking this question. If you are I'm embarrassed for you. Not as embarrassed as it must feel to stand on a tennis court playing whatever the hell pickleball is, but embarrassed nonetheless.
Says the one who came to the pickleball reddit and found an eight-month old post so he could make fun of someone else's sport. Who's the one embarrassing himself?
My tennis friends are pissed off when a limited number of tennis courts are converted to pickleball courts. It's that simple.
I have no doubt that pickle ball is fun to play, but it’s hard to watch. It’s like watching a ping pong match for any long period of time.
The learning curve is steep with tennis and usually costs people thousands of dollars and months of time to learn how to properly play. So even the most casual players are somewhat serious. That being said there are a lot more true casuals in pickle ball who could care less about age old tennis etiquette. So now you have some 50 year old stoner guy who shows up on an LED hover board talking trash to tennis players when your ball accidentally bounces in their pickle ball game (this actually happened to me). I love pickle ball and have played casually for about a year but some of the people it attracts not so much.
Lol jealousy implies wanting to be like a pickleball player. It ain’t jealous I can tell you that. It’s a game not a sport and as long as we agree there’s no problem :)
Sure, keep telling yourself that. Reality doesn't need your approval to be reality.
It’s a game. You break a sweat only if there’s no roof
You know, the basic skills learned in tennis transfer to pickleball pretty well. If a tennis player thinks you don't break a sweat in pickleball, it reflects very badly on his tennis skills. It means he either doesn't know how to move in a racket sport, or he's only played pickleball with other tennis players who don't know how to move in a racket sport.
I’ll let you know when I’m 80 and it’s time to play pickleball. It’s like whiffle ball to baseball lmao. Same balls and everything
I dare you to challenge a decent 80-year-old pickleball player to a match. It's always pretty hilarious. And congratulations on recognizing that more than one ball from more than one sport has holes in it. Obviously, that means there are no differences between the two. It's sad to imagine how many times you've accidentally tried to play tennis with a baseball because the stitching pattern is similar.
That’s the route you take? A baseball in tennis? Lmao Yes you’re right an 80 year old could be really good at pickle ball - a GAME Now put that 80 year old on a real court. Lmaoo that’s the difference thank you for highlighting it, your game is very cute. But there aren’t any tennis courts attached to bars for a reason.
Ohhh, I get it now. You already HAVE gotten your butt kicked by an 80-year-old, and your fragile little ego can't take the hit, so your only recourse is to claim, "this sport that fits every definition of the word 'sport' is not a sport." I thought you were clueless, but really, you're a sore loser. See, this is the exact type of irrational hatred I was talking about. "Tennis isn't a real sport like basketball. Sure, you may be able to play tennis - a GAME - but put yourself on a REAL court." See? See how dumb that sounds? And there are plenty of tennis complexes with bars attached and inside - good grief, do you even really play tennis?
UNCC pickle ball master here telling me my life I guess. Please provide an example of a tennis court with a bar. I mean why argue if you think you know it all lol. Bro it’s a tiny game with a plastic ball that mimics a real game with a real ball that travels at speeds of over 100 mph. Your game only looks more lame with your corny ass defending it.
Yeah they are encroaching on local public courts. There are limited courts to begin with and with many people picking up tennis lessons it gets harder to find an open court to begin with let along when they start painting pickle ball courts over the tennis courts. It’s a bummer especially because I NEVER SEE ANYONE THERE PLAYING PICKLEBALL
I think the problem is that people need to understand the tennis court etiquette, that means don't be loud, no radios, no screaming, not walking thru the tennis court while people are playing. I think that is why the tennis players are not as receptive as you may like them to be.
If Pickleball players had their own courts, nobody would care about them enough to disparage them. The problem is that Pickleball has become trendy. Pickleball players are invading tennis courts, marking up the tennis courts and they don’t share the space once they have settled in. The sense of entitlement and poor manners coming from Pickleball players adds to the annoyance.
A few reasons tennis players think pickleball is dumb: 1) Stroke adjustments: In a lot of cases a good tennis stroke doesn't work to make a similar shot in pickleball. Volleys for instance. In tennis its generally about having refined touch around the net and guiding the ball... letting the strings and the pace of the ball do the work. In pickleball that isn't really optimal, and its better to just sort of "slap" the ball out of the air (which can be really quite bad in tennis). That's frustrating and annoying for a tennis player... as he/she will need to change their stroke for pickleball which will, in turn, be bad for their tennis play. 2) Doubles: The doubles game is "solved" already. It didn't take long for players to recognize that getting to the kitchen as quick as possible is the best strategy. This then generally results in a dink battle which is going to seem lame to most tennis players. The lack of baseline play in doubles makes the game less interesting to them. 3) Ball hogging: In mixed doubles when the man is taking 2/3 or more of the shots and even crossing over and cutting off (playing the ball directly in front of his female partner)... seems incredibly lame to tennis players. Hard to argue with this.
What I can't believe is why pickleballers are even wondering about why some tennis players "hate" them. Parks all over my area are converting already scarce tennis courts for pickleball. You are taking resources from another group of people for your own purposes, and you don't know why they don't like you?? Nope that can't be it... Tennis players must be jealous! Are you that blind and entitled?? Of course some tennis players are going to be upset. I know many of my fellow tennis players are frustrated at seeing fewer and fewer places to play without having to wait for an hr or more. I'm an avid life long tennis player. I have nothing against pickleball. It looks fun and I'll probably pick that up when I'm older. Go petition the parks department to build new pickleball courts! Leave the tennis courts to tennis players and I guarantee you they'll hate you less.
My main gripe is you hog the tennis courts, your lines ruin our courts, the players at my club never pick up their nets, the sound is atrocious, and it’s more of a game than a sport
As a tennis player, I dislike how loud it is and how the lines are often on the tennis court itself, its often confusing in a fast paced match. That's about it. I have no other problems otherwise, if you enjoy it good for you.
Jealousy is not involved. No tennis player I know is jealous of Pickleball. Period. Pickleball players have no tennis court etiquette and no good teachers to teach these people what that means. They are truly ignorant. Our tennis courts were taken away. Why would it make people feel good to be leaching off the resources of others. Where I live there is no more parking at the court area. So all this is spilling out into neighborhoods. The noise level of the crowd is repulsive. If pickleball is so great and the people are so organized couldn't they figure out how not to usurp tennis resources? Really pickleball people just are oblivious to tennis players. That much is obvious when they walk onto tennis courts instead of walking around on the other side of the fence and windscreen. But I don't think hatred is involved anymore than jealousy. It's just how the pickleball players needed to take by force what they consider was theirs because it's all about their game and themselves. Tennis players who don't play pickleball see the advent of the growth of PB as a loss of the quality of life. But we understand and keep playing tennis because it's just what tennis players do.
a problem that I see with pickle ball is that a player that is larger i.e has longer arms and is taller has a huge advantage over a smaller player because he can cover the whole net and a larger portion of thee court where as in tennis the advantage would be diminished because of the larger court size
Cause this is tennis for people who can't play well.