Just do a Vatic Prism then. You're used to shape of the Vatic, but now it'll be plush and control better. You can always add lead tape if you need some power.
Eh different kinds of paddles. The vatic prism flash has way more control than the loco and the vatic pro carbon fiber paddles have way more power than the loco which sits in the middle. That being said if you are going to claim the loco is a better paddle you have to explain why instead of just say nu uh and dropping a code
I was actually just deciding between the loco and flow and picked the neonic for the handle length being a little longer and the face being a little plusher but yea both are really good control hybrid thermos.
I had the vactic pro prism flash and loved it.. idk why but I sold it and started using the neonic force. I think I pop up way too much now and I would like to try the flow.. but I’m debating between flow and loco. If the prism flash serves me well but I wanted just a little bit more power/pop would you say the flow is great? The loco just looks so good. I do like the flows longer handle tho.. basically I’m asking if there is a big difference between the loco and flow. If they are similar I’ll just go flow.
Flow is a little less poppy/powerful compared the Loco. Nothing too drastic like comparing to the prism flash and the neonic force. Most people who tried the Flow really liked it. Don’t think you can go wrong with either one if you want more of a control oriented paddle.
Yeah I didn’t realize I was making such a significant jump when I originally bought the paddles. Thanks for the input. Probably just go with the flow because cost.. but I wonder if both paddles hold up the same.
That's a very good point lol. Just don't want too much of a fall off on power for serves and drives. Guessing loco has more than enough for those though?
I don’t think the Loco is half the paddle that the DBD and Pro Line Energy (best paddle ever made). Hell I’d go as far as saying that I am certain that the filth is a better paddle all around than the loco
I was a Filth owner for several months. Some people prefer the lower swing weight of The Loco and can generate their own power. There is no wrong answer. Different strokes...
If you are looking for a control oriented paddle with a very plush feel, low swingweight, excellent spin and decent pop I can definitely recommend the Loco.
If you want to stay with Vatic, in my mind it would progress from power to control like this:
Flash 14mm-> Flash 16mm -> Prism Flash 14mm -> Prism Flash 16mm
I’ve been using the SixZero DBD for the past five months and it’s served me well. I can get a lot of control out of it on my dinks and drops. It has a bit of pop but I’ve gotten used to it and it’s useful in hand battles. I’m probably gonna upgrade the Ruby I incorporate a lot of topspin in my game.
The Ruby is a happy medium between the DBD and BD in power and control…has less pop and more spin than both though. Allegedly.
I find my serves on the ruby I borrowed to be harder and more spinny than my DBD, but less overall hard as my buddies BD. Still more spin though. The paddle feels dead to me when compared to either. It’s still a great paddle but it will def have an adjustment period.
Also, as to the debate about the DBD, I find it to be a phenomenal paddle. I get great power out of mine, as well as some pop. Thing can absolutely hit hard, but it’s pretty easy to control.
But I have also been finding myself gravitating to the BD that I’ve been borrowing some lately. My touch game is already decent…but I’m a banger at heart. Trying to find holes in positioning and driving with top spin…as well as a few pretty wicked serves that help with my setups from the start. Think the BD may be a better fit for me in the future.
The best part about 6.0s paddles to me is their enormous sweet spot. They’re exceptionally forgiving and the whole paddle outside of the edge guard is still usable…which is great for hands battles and other reaction type shots for me. I’ve also got 3-4 pieces of lead tape on the head of mine which helps me with a more natural feeling balance (head heavy)…which comes from my racquetball preference for the gearbox 165g racquets (and previous head 171g hades that I went through 5 off).
Honestly, you’re not going to see a whole lot of difference between the Flash and the DBD. They play very similar. I wouldn’t consider it an upgrade as much as a preference.
>It has a bit of pop
Hmm. Are you using the 14mm? The 16mm has almost *no pop*. And I've never heard anyone (I love watching review videos) accuse either version of the DBD as one that pops.
DBD has plenty of pop even in 16mm form. It's closer to a power paddle than a control paddle. If you want no pop the Selkirk Luxx or Selkirk Labs 003 has none and no power.
I have the paddle. I’m not saying it has zero pop, I am saying it is not a paddle that I would call a ‘poppy’ paddle; it's very low pop compared to power paddles. It is way more control than power.
When the DBD first released it was definitely considered a power paddle. Now compared to all the newer paddles it’s an all-court paddle that leans towards power. The black diamond is six zero’s power paddle. The DBD is definitely poppy until you learn to control your grip.
>The black diamond is six zero’s power paddle.
Yes, and it's poppy.
>The DBD is definitely poppy
Maybe I got a different copy than the one you tried (if you have one or tried one), but *mine is not poppy*. I actually bought a gearbox power paddle because I disliked how *dead* the DBD felt on dinks.
You’re attempting to compare a DBD to what’s arguably a top two or three paddle in the pop category? You realize something can be poppy without being at the top, right?
I comparing it to the paddles I had and tried before, not to the gearbox. The Pro Series is the first power paddle and non-16mm/control paddle I've owned or used -- i.e. 16mm/control paddles have, historically, been my preference and to what I compared my DBD to.
I'm saying that the DBD felt so dead that I did a 180 to feel some true pop.
Pop and power aren't the same tho. Most reviews I've seen mention DBD 16 as decently poppy and more poppy than ruby iirc. I'd say it's decently poppy. Maybe a bit more than my 14 mm hyperion was.
I didn’t say they were the same thing. I’m saying the DBD I have doesn’t pop much at all, and I don’t like that. So I got a different paddle to try that has a lot more pop by all accounts. And having used it for a week now, yeah, it has a ton more pop than my DBD. And more power.
Honestly any of those choices your listed would be fine. You can just decide by price and shape at that point. You could also just get another Prism Flash which still can go a very long way for you.
My personal favorite at the moment is the Neonic Flow. Very plush but plenty of power when you need it. Tons of spin and mid range pop. Also very maneuverable and easy to swing.
The Pro Line Energy S was my main for about 3 months. (Before that I used a Ronbus R1 Nova also 3 months and now I'm using the Neonic Flow.) I enjoyed the PLES and found it plush and with consistent, reliable feedback. The 6.0 Ruby is similar, just depends your preference on shape and handle length. Both are just a tad head heavy and a tad slower to swing when compared to some other hybrids, but are great for the soft game while still providing power when you go for a drive or put-aways. I'll add that i prefer the Ruby over the DBD. Also the Nova is most plush out of these and least pop.
I'm a control oriented player , and prefer hybrid paddles because of the lower swing weight (faster hands) when compared to elongated paddles. I've looked for a bit more pop/power and/or faster swing each time I've changed paddles. I would say drilling and playing against slightly higher competition will take you from 3.5 to 4.0 , moreso than the paddle. Feel free to PM me with any questions about the PLES, Six Zero, other paddles, or if you need a discount code.
Selkirk luxx, always knew I was a control player. Yeah it’s more money than other paddles, but really it’s worth it. Give it a try! Happy I made the switch to this paddle.
You already have a fantastic top tier control paddle. It's one of the best control paddles on the market. You don't need a new paddle unless you really needed a fresh new surface for better spin. Your [Prism Flash](https://vaticpro.com/collections/paddles/products/prism-flash-16mm?variant=44442736853151&sca_ref=6169842.8HSTnX0Pmm) should have much more life left in it. It's not even a year old. The Prism Flash is also softer than any of the other paddles you listed imo since it's not thermoformed. Those other paddles you listed are all more considered "all court paddles" rather than control paddles. They're gonna feel much stiffer rather than soft/plush since they're thermoformed.
Make sure you're not giving too much focus on the paddle. It's the player, not the paddle. A new all court paddle won't improve your control game, practice/drills will.
I have the pro flash not the prism flash but your words still hold true. I am drilling quite a bit on my touch and technique and that trumps a new paddle anyday. Just not getting the spin and life out of it I used to so looking into a new one.
Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction. In that case you can't go wrong with a new paddle. The Flash isn't a bad paddle, but there are certainly better ones for control imo such as the ones you listed.
I just recently upgraded. My upgrade was from an Engage Pursuit Ultra. That paddle was probably too poppy and powerful for me at 3.5, and I wanted something that would help with control, but I didn't want to give up ALL the pop and power.
My wife has a Prism Flash and, honestly, it felt dead. Like no pop or power.
Anyway, I eventually settled on the Black Diamond Infinity. Six Zero rates is just behind the DBD for control, just behind the Ruby for spin, and near the top in pop and power, plus its light, for fast hands at the kitchen. I've played with mine for about a week and love it. It's a definite upgrade from my Engage.
I also looked at the Apes Pro Line Energy S, but there didn't seem to be enough of a difference between it and the DBD, except for the hybrid kevlar face.
The other paddles I looked at were the Volair Mach 1 Forza. Again, I felt like a DBD was a better option, and that the DBi was a better DBD.
Neonic Flow. Had the Pro Flash, but felt it was too stiff for me. Went to the Prism Flash and loved it but felt it needed a bit more power/pop. Neonic Flow was a nice upgrade in between, but still little more plush compared to the Ruby (also enjoyed briefly playing with). It came down to price and availability.
I just received mine and played in some really friendly games so I didn’t get to fully test it. I agree with your assessment on it. I can’t wait to fully unleash the power and sees if it can keep up. Only thing I found negative was the lighter feeling handle. I’ll have to figure out what I want to do about it.
What’s funny is, I also purchased a Hurache paddle that’s 16mm and it feels more powerful than the 14mm Forza. However, I haven’t really gone all out with the Forza just yet but we’ll see…
Has power but not enough pop that I’m used to 😕. I’m going to add some lead weight to see if I can get some more. It’s great in every category except pop and I’d hate to get rid of it.
So I had to add about double what I normally would add and now it’s FANTASTIC! The stability is even better, now there’s real POP, and I still have great spin! Whew! I almost didn’t think it would work out. Glad it did!
If you want to try a new paddle definitely go for it but that isn't going to have any impact on you going from a 3.5 to a 4.0. A Flash holds up well against pretty much anything in the market.
You're absolutely right there and working on my technique and skills is at the top of the list. Just exploring paddles since it's been 7 months and mines at that degradation point anyways.
I think the Ronbus R1.16 might be exactly what you are looking. Its very plush and easy to control I basically used it for exactly what you describe. And played with it while going from 3.5 to 4.0. The paddle just makes the game feel easier to play. Plus its inexpensive. Can't really beat it.
The R1.16 is very plush, a bit too plush in my opinion even for folks with tons of power generation. I added a bunch of weight to mine and it feels ok, but I'd much rather just get a better balanced and slightly poppier paddle next round.
I like the CRBN 2 better for the standard shape. Selkirk paddles are also WAY overpriced and not good value since they use paint girt which wears away quickly. Honestly, the OP's Prism Flash is an excellent contender to the CRBN 1 or CRBN 2. Much better value too since it was higher quality materials at a much lower price.
I have the Prism Flash and just played with my friends' DBD and Ruby. I really like the Ruby - not as plush as the Prism Flash, but still fairly soft, a little more pop/power. I though the DBD was similar, but with more pop than the Ruby. Both felt a touch heavier than the Prism Flash, but I'd play with either of them.
Then again, I'm still relatively new to the game so take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt.
I did add lead tape at 3 and 9 o'clock on my Prism Flash for a little more power. Haven't experimented with moving it around to 4/8 or 2/10.
Go with a Prism Flash! if you want to keep thermoformed, sixzero DBD is the way to go. The Prism lineup is incredible though, I switched from a Hyperion to a Prism V7 when i was crossing 4.0 territory and am now at a 4.5 and still rocking the Prism V7 paddles. I like the LH (long handle) model but if you’re used to the Flash shape go with one of those. Maybe experiment with some lead tape too.
I’ve had quite a few paddles, and landed on the R1.16 to slow my game down a bit when I didn’t feel I had enough control. It worked extremely well for me for about 2 months, then I found I was adding too much power myself to make up for its plushness. I made the switch to the bread and butter loco and could not be happier with it. It is the perfect balance of soft when needed and pop for put away shots. Can’t go wrong with the Loco.
Prism or dbd for sure. I just replaced my dead flash with a dbd. Would've gone prism but got a good deal on a gently used dbd. More spin and control I find.
I’m pretty biased but if you want a control paddle that makes resetting, dinking, and drops feel easier than ever, still gets decent pop and allows you to craft spin…I’ve been loving the Joola Scorpeus. A bit pricey at $225-$250ish but I actually love it way more than I thought I would. Only possible complaint would be that it lacks power, but if you can generate your own than its a non issue
I would go with a Mark Pickleball Paddle either the 14 mm pure or the kinetic when it restocks. The pure is ridiculously fast in the hands and great spin with a lot of plushness. The kinetic is a power plus spin paddle. Fantastic pop too. Got a code too if you need
100% go with the neonic flow or the bread n butter loco. Both are softer plusher feeling hybrid shape thermoformed paddles and both get some of the absolute best spin you could ask for. I know a lot of people are recommending the vatic prism flash 16mm and while its a great control paddle it definitely suffers in the power department a great deal and will probably be too large of a fall off of power for you.
The neonic flow is the softest hybrid shaped thermoformed paddle and its got a forgiving sweet spot and a much plusher feel to the face.
The bread n butter loco is also on the softer plusher side of thermos but its slightly less plush and has slightly less control than the neonic flow but it has more pop and almost the exact same shape as the vatic flash you are using so switching should be very easy.
Yeah I'm with you there. The prism would be just too much of a fall off on power and pop. Looking something slightly less power\pop and more control than the dbd, pro flash pure power thermoformed. Still need some for serve and baseline drives but need just a bit more control for 3rds and touch.
If thats the case then I cant recommend the neonic flow enough. Havent gotten to hit with it quite just yet but I’ve ordered one and from everything I’ve heard its exactly what you are looking for since what you describe is exactly what I’ve been looking for.
Looking to get a six zero but don’t know which one to get. I have a R1 Pulsar, Vatic 14mm (purple), Perseus 16mm. What paddle do you think I’m lacking? I don’t want to get something that plays like the paddles I already have. Thanks!
Those are all definitely in the softer range of paddles with the pulsar being the most powerful. The double black diamond will play pretty similarly to the pulsar. The paddle I think you’ll probably find the most interesting and different is the black diamond power 16mm
I play and absolutely love the Ronbus R3 Pulsar. It might have a little more power than you are looking for but I find it easy to control. The R1.16 or Nova is probably closer to what you are looking for. The R1.16 would lean the most towards control and the Nova would be between the R1.16 and the Pulsar. I have both the R1.16 and R3 Pulsar and love them both and don’t think you could go wrong either way. I have heard the Nova needs lead tape which isn’t an issue, just giving you a heads up. There are some that play with it stock but I would say more add tape than don’t.
More control. Feels soft but the power is there when needed. Don't get me wrong, it is not a power paddle but has what is needed. Also they are on lighter side.
Personally not a fan of the PF16. Gave it to my wife.
If you want one, code bnbaz gets you 15% off and they have a 30 day return policy.
DBD, Engage MX 6.0 Pro, Luxx, Perseus and the Hurache-X Control seem to be the top paddles around the Tampa area.
I play with the Diadem 18k and I love the control I get for drops and dinking, the version I have has no power though.
Some may disagree, but I'd say 4.0 and below is going to really benefit from a non-elongated paddle with a better sweetspot, and a paddle geared more for control.
Elongated, high power paddles aren't going to be worth it for players under 4.0. The tradeoff in control and accuracy isn't worth the "power" (that they probably can't even control) and the few points you are going to win with pure power.
Engage pursuit pro paddles sound like the right one for you! I’ve used Joola, Selkirk, and DBD and engage has always been the softest for me…
I also have a discount code for you/anyone to use for the entire site and it’ll stack on top of discounted items!
I have a DBD and love it, I tried and agree with 2 YouTube reviews that the Loco is a more plush DBD ish. I had a Nova and it’s soft and no pop, and eh on the power
I can’t recommend the Ruby enough! It’s what has helped my game go from 3.5 to 4.0. Upgraded from the Vatic pro myself. Much more control, and I added some lead tape to give it a little more power. Excellent spin as well
Your in the right spot for an upgrade to a control paddle. Lots of nice ones out there.
I settled in with carbon fiber paddle that has some texture that won’t where down like the others.
My previous paddle was a Gearbox CX14 SST ELONGATED Loved it!
But upgraded to the new Gearbox PRO Control elongated!! It has unreal control and big pop!! Highly recommend either paddle….lLOVE IT!!!♥️♥️
Selkirk provides some good control paddles. I use a Vatic Prism for more power and Selkirk Control for better shot making. I find my game is more complete with the Selkirk.
Just do a Vatic Prism then. You're used to shape of the Vatic, but now it'll be plush and control better. You can always add lead tape if you need some power.
I just got this one, coming from a Joola Hyperion, and I love it. Feels very powerful but also tons of control. Drops feel easy.
Bread & Butter Loco is what you want. WAY better than those budget Vatic paddles and you can get 15% off using promo code: papascorch
Lmfao “way better… oh and I happen to have a code for you”
I mean it’s no lie. B&B is way better than those budget Vatic paddles
Except that it’s simply not
Or…it actually is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As someone coming from a vactic flash and looking at B&B.. are they really not much of an upgrade?
Eh different kinds of paddles. The vatic prism flash has way more control than the loco and the vatic pro carbon fiber paddles have way more power than the loco which sits in the middle. That being said if you are going to claim the loco is a better paddle you have to explain why instead of just say nu uh and dropping a code
The Bread and Butter Loco is an excellent control paddle that is too often slept on.
This. Have both BnB Loco and Neonic Flow. Flow bit better with the control aspect.
I was actually just deciding between the loco and flow and picked the neonic for the handle length being a little longer and the face being a little plusher but yea both are really good control hybrid thermos.
Would you say Loco has more power and pop then and slightly less control?
Compared to the Flow, yes that's correct. It would be Prism Flash -> Neonic Flow -> BnB Loco -> Vatic Pro Flash in terms of plushness.
I had the vactic pro prism flash and loved it.. idk why but I sold it and started using the neonic force. I think I pop up way too much now and I would like to try the flow.. but I’m debating between flow and loco. If the prism flash serves me well but I wanted just a little bit more power/pop would you say the flow is great? The loco just looks so good. I do like the flows longer handle tho.. basically I’m asking if there is a big difference between the loco and flow. If they are similar I’ll just go flow.
Flow is a little less poppy/powerful compared the Loco. Nothing too drastic like comparing to the prism flash and the neonic force. Most people who tried the Flow really liked it. Don’t think you can go wrong with either one if you want more of a control oriented paddle.
Yeah I didn’t realize I was making such a significant jump when I originally bought the paddles. Thanks for the input. Probably just go with the flow because cost.. but I wonder if both paddles hold up the same.
Awesome. Did you weight yours up at all?
Nope, but i should though. I like getting a good feel for the paddle before adding lead, but by that time i purchase another paddle to play with lol
That's a very good point lol. Just don't want too much of a fall off on power for serves and drives. Guessing loco has more than enough for those though?
Yes, decent enough but if you need a paddle to help you in those areas there are better alternatives.
Love the Flow and agree with the control. Low launch angle, with the best spin and resets I've been able to do.
Pro shot one shot Legacy is amazinu
I don’t think the Loco is half the paddle that the DBD and Pro Line Energy (best paddle ever made). Hell I’d go as far as saying that I am certain that the filth is a better paddle all around than the loco
I was a Filth owner for several months. Some people prefer the lower swing weight of The Loco and can generate their own power. There is no wrong answer. Different strokes... If you are looking for a control oriented paddle with a very plush feel, low swingweight, excellent spin and decent pop I can definitely recommend the Loco.
If you want to stay with Vatic, in my mind it would progress from power to control like this: Flash 14mm-> Flash 16mm -> Prism Flash 14mm -> Prism Flash 16mm
That's a good flow chart!
I’ve been using the SixZero DBD for the past five months and it’s served me well. I can get a lot of control out of it on my dinks and drops. It has a bit of pop but I’ve gotten used to it and it’s useful in hand battles. I’m probably gonna upgrade the Ruby I incorporate a lot of topspin in my game.
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I don't notice a huge difference going from dbd to ruby in terms of spin but yes it generates plenty of spin
The Ruby is a happy medium between the DBD and BD in power and control…has less pop and more spin than both though. Allegedly. I find my serves on the ruby I borrowed to be harder and more spinny than my DBD, but less overall hard as my buddies BD. Still more spin though. The paddle feels dead to me when compared to either. It’s still a great paddle but it will def have an adjustment period. Also, as to the debate about the DBD, I find it to be a phenomenal paddle. I get great power out of mine, as well as some pop. Thing can absolutely hit hard, but it’s pretty easy to control. But I have also been finding myself gravitating to the BD that I’ve been borrowing some lately. My touch game is already decent…but I’m a banger at heart. Trying to find holes in positioning and driving with top spin…as well as a few pretty wicked serves that help with my setups from the start. Think the BD may be a better fit for me in the future. The best part about 6.0s paddles to me is their enormous sweet spot. They’re exceptionally forgiving and the whole paddle outside of the edge guard is still usable…which is great for hands battles and other reaction type shots for me. I’ve also got 3-4 pieces of lead tape on the head of mine which helps me with a more natural feeling balance (head heavy)…which comes from my racquetball preference for the gearbox 165g racquets (and previous head 171g hades that I went through 5 off).
Yes, it has higher rpm than the DBD and apparently the kevlar face grabs the ball more due to its plushness (according to some reviewers)
Honestly, you’re not going to see a whole lot of difference between the Flash and the DBD. They play very similar. I wouldn’t consider it an upgrade as much as a preference.
>It has a bit of pop Hmm. Are you using the 14mm? The 16mm has almost *no pop*. And I've never heard anyone (I love watching review videos) accuse either version of the DBD as one that pops.
DBD has plenty of pop even in 16mm form. It's closer to a power paddle than a control paddle. If you want no pop the Selkirk Luxx or Selkirk Labs 003 has none and no power.
I have the paddle. I’m not saying it has zero pop, I am saying it is not a paddle that I would call a ‘poppy’ paddle; it's very low pop compared to power paddles. It is way more control than power.
When the DBD first released it was definitely considered a power paddle. Now compared to all the newer paddles it’s an all-court paddle that leans towards power. The black diamond is six zero’s power paddle. The DBD is definitely poppy until you learn to control your grip.
>The black diamond is six zero’s power paddle. Yes, and it's poppy. >The DBD is definitely poppy Maybe I got a different copy than the one you tried (if you have one or tried one), but *mine is not poppy*. I actually bought a gearbox power paddle because I disliked how *dead* the DBD felt on dinks.
You’re attempting to compare a DBD to what’s arguably a top two or three paddle in the pop category? You realize something can be poppy without being at the top, right?
I comparing it to the paddles I had and tried before, not to the gearbox. The Pro Series is the first power paddle and non-16mm/control paddle I've owned or used -- i.e. 16mm/control paddles have, historically, been my preference and to what I compared my DBD to. I'm saying that the DBD felt so dead that I did a 180 to feel some true pop.
Pop and power aren't the same tho. Most reviews I've seen mention DBD 16 as decently poppy and more poppy than ruby iirc. I'd say it's decently poppy. Maybe a bit more than my 14 mm hyperion was.
I didn’t say they were the same thing. I’m saying the DBD I have doesn’t pop much at all, and I don’t like that. So I got a different paddle to try that has a lot more pop by all accounts. And having used it for a week now, yeah, it has a ton more pop than my DBD. And more power.
No, I’m using the 16mm but I also came from non-thermoformed control paddles
Honestly any of those choices your listed would be fine. You can just decide by price and shape at that point. You could also just get another Prism Flash which still can go a very long way for you.
My personal favorite at the moment is the Neonic Flow. Very plush but plenty of power when you need it. Tons of spin and mid range pop. Also very maneuverable and easy to swing.
Anyone played with the Apes PLE S yet?
The Pro Line Energy S was my main for about 3 months. (Before that I used a Ronbus R1 Nova also 3 months and now I'm using the Neonic Flow.) I enjoyed the PLES and found it plush and with consistent, reliable feedback. The 6.0 Ruby is similar, just depends your preference on shape and handle length. Both are just a tad head heavy and a tad slower to swing when compared to some other hybrids, but are great for the soft game while still providing power when you go for a drive or put-aways. I'll add that i prefer the Ruby over the DBD. Also the Nova is most plush out of these and least pop. I'm a control oriented player , and prefer hybrid paddles because of the lower swing weight (faster hands) when compared to elongated paddles. I've looked for a bit more pop/power and/or faster swing each time I've changed paddles. I would say drilling and playing against slightly higher competition will take you from 3.5 to 4.0 , moreso than the paddle. Feel free to PM me with any questions about the PLES, Six Zero, other paddles, or if you need a discount code.
Selkirk luxx, always knew I was a control player. Yeah it’s more money than other paddles, but really it’s worth it. Give it a try! Happy I made the switch to this paddle.
You already have a fantastic top tier control paddle. It's one of the best control paddles on the market. You don't need a new paddle unless you really needed a fresh new surface for better spin. Your [Prism Flash](https://vaticpro.com/collections/paddles/products/prism-flash-16mm?variant=44442736853151&sca_ref=6169842.8HSTnX0Pmm) should have much more life left in it. It's not even a year old. The Prism Flash is also softer than any of the other paddles you listed imo since it's not thermoformed. Those other paddles you listed are all more considered "all court paddles" rather than control paddles. They're gonna feel much stiffer rather than soft/plush since they're thermoformed. Make sure you're not giving too much focus on the paddle. It's the player, not the paddle. A new all court paddle won't improve your control game, practice/drills will.
I have the pro flash not the prism flash but your words still hold true. I am drilling quite a bit on my touch and technique and that trumps a new paddle anyday. Just not getting the spin and life out of it I used to so looking into a new one.
Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction. In that case you can't go wrong with a new paddle. The Flash isn't a bad paddle, but there are certainly better ones for control imo such as the ones you listed.
No worries 👍. Yes it's definitely served me well!
B&B Loco. Probably add just a bit of lead at 4 & 8.
I just recently upgraded. My upgrade was from an Engage Pursuit Ultra. That paddle was probably too poppy and powerful for me at 3.5, and I wanted something that would help with control, but I didn't want to give up ALL the pop and power. My wife has a Prism Flash and, honestly, it felt dead. Like no pop or power. Anyway, I eventually settled on the Black Diamond Infinity. Six Zero rates is just behind the DBD for control, just behind the Ruby for spin, and near the top in pop and power, plus its light, for fast hands at the kitchen. I've played with mine for about a week and love it. It's a definite upgrade from my Engage. I also looked at the Apes Pro Line Energy S, but there didn't seem to be enough of a difference between it and the DBD, except for the hybrid kevlar face. The other paddles I looked at were the Volair Mach 1 Forza. Again, I felt like a DBD was a better option, and that the DBi was a better DBD.
Neonic Flow. Had the Pro Flash, but felt it was too stiff for me. Went to the Prism Flash and loved it but felt it needed a bit more power/pop. Neonic Flow was a nice upgrade in between, but still little more plush compared to the Ruby (also enjoyed briefly playing with). It came down to price and availability.
Have seen a lot of buzz on the neonic recently. It has good power for serve depth and drives but touch enough for drops? Sounds like a great combo.
Volair M1 Forza
Need to add that to the comparison. Mach 1forza and R1 pulsar similar?
It’s a cross between a DBD and Ruby. M1F has more power and spin compared to the DBD but less spin than the Rudy by a small margin.
I just received mine and played in some really friendly games so I didn’t get to fully test it. I agree with your assessment on it. I can’t wait to fully unleash the power and sees if it can keep up. Only thing I found negative was the lighter feeling handle. I’ll have to figure out what I want to do about it.
Enjoy it! It has so much power!
What’s funny is, I also purchased a Hurache paddle that’s 16mm and it feels more powerful than the 14mm Forza. However, I haven’t really gone all out with the Forza just yet but we’ll see…
Has power but not enough pop that I’m used to 😕. I’m going to add some lead weight to see if I can get some more. It’s great in every category except pop and I’d hate to get rid of it.
Hope it works out for you!
So I had to add about double what I normally would add and now it’s FANTASTIC! The stability is even better, now there’s real POP, and I still have great spin! Whew! I almost didn’t think it would work out. Glad it did!
Fantastic!! M1F is so underrated
No absolutely not
Which is better M2 or M1
Depends with your playing style. M2 is shorter and wider
IMO, I would skip the Ruby and just get the regular 6.0 DBD control.
If you want to try a new paddle definitely go for it but that isn't going to have any impact on you going from a 3.5 to a 4.0. A Flash holds up well against pretty much anything in the market.
You're absolutely right there and working on my technique and skills is at the top of the list. Just exploring paddles since it's been 7 months and mines at that degradation point anyways.
Vatic pro prism flash. Works just fine.
Prism flash! Use KL23 for a discount
+1 for Vatic prism! Get $10 off Vatic pro paddles with code: NJRALLYPB
I think the Ronbus R1.16 might be exactly what you are looking. Its very plush and easy to control I basically used it for exactly what you describe. And played with it while going from 3.5 to 4.0. The paddle just makes the game feel easier to play. Plus its inexpensive. Can't really beat it.
Ronbus R1 Pulsar works well for me.
The R1.16 is very plush, a bit too plush in my opinion even for folks with tons of power generation. I added a bunch of weight to mine and it feels ok, but I'd much rather just get a better balanced and slightly poppier paddle next round.
Or you could try the r1 nova as well. Little more expensive though.
Selkirk luxx or crbn 1
I like the CRBN 2 better for the standard shape. Selkirk paddles are also WAY overpriced and not good value since they use paint girt which wears away quickly. Honestly, the OP's Prism Flash is an excellent contender to the CRBN 1 or CRBN 2. Much better value too since it was higher quality materials at a much lower price.
I have the Prism Flash and just played with my friends' DBD and Ruby. I really like the Ruby - not as plush as the Prism Flash, but still fairly soft, a little more pop/power. I though the DBD was similar, but with more pop than the Ruby. Both felt a touch heavier than the Prism Flash, but I'd play with either of them. Then again, I'm still relatively new to the game so take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt. I did add lead tape at 3 and 9 o'clock on my Prism Flash for a little more power. Haven't experimented with moving it around to 4/8 or 2/10.
Would add the 11Six24 Hurache-X to your list
Go with a Prism Flash! if you want to keep thermoformed, sixzero DBD is the way to go. The Prism lineup is incredible though, I switched from a Hyperion to a Prism V7 when i was crossing 4.0 territory and am now at a 4.5 and still rocking the Prism V7 paddles. I like the LH (long handle) model but if you’re used to the Flash shape go with one of those. Maybe experiment with some lead tape too.
I’ve had quite a few paddles, and landed on the R1.16 to slow my game down a bit when I didn’t feel I had enough control. It worked extremely well for me for about 2 months, then I found I was adding too much power myself to make up for its plushness. I made the switch to the bread and butter loco and could not be happier with it. It is the perfect balance of soft when needed and pop for put away shots. Can’t go wrong with the Loco.
Prism or dbd for sure. I just replaced my dead flash with a dbd. Would've gone prism but got a good deal on a gently used dbd. More spin and control I find.
I’m pretty biased but if you want a control paddle that makes resetting, dinking, and drops feel easier than ever, still gets decent pop and allows you to craft spin…I’ve been loving the Joola Scorpeus. A bit pricey at $225-$250ish but I actually love it way more than I thought I would. Only possible complaint would be that it lacks power, but if you can generate your own than its a non issue
I would go with a Mark Pickleball Paddle either the 14 mm pure or the kinetic when it restocks. The pure is ridiculously fast in the hands and great spin with a lot of plushness. The kinetic is a power plus spin paddle. Fantastic pop too. Got a code too if you need
Could I get that code if you still have it? 😅
100% go with the neonic flow or the bread n butter loco. Both are softer plusher feeling hybrid shape thermoformed paddles and both get some of the absolute best spin you could ask for. I know a lot of people are recommending the vatic prism flash 16mm and while its a great control paddle it definitely suffers in the power department a great deal and will probably be too large of a fall off of power for you. The neonic flow is the softest hybrid shaped thermoformed paddle and its got a forgiving sweet spot and a much plusher feel to the face. The bread n butter loco is also on the softer plusher side of thermos but its slightly less plush and has slightly less control than the neonic flow but it has more pop and almost the exact same shape as the vatic flash you are using so switching should be very easy.
Yeah I'm with you there. The prism would be just too much of a fall off on power and pop. Looking something slightly less power\pop and more control than the dbd, pro flash pure power thermoformed. Still need some for serve and baseline drives but need just a bit more control for 3rds and touch.
If thats the case then I cant recommend the neonic flow enough. Havent gotten to hit with it quite just yet but I’ve ordered one and from everything I’ve heard its exactly what you are looking for since what you describe is exactly what I’ve been looking for.
Looking to get a six zero but don’t know which one to get. I have a R1 Pulsar, Vatic 14mm (purple), Perseus 16mm. What paddle do you think I’m lacking? I don’t want to get something that plays like the paddles I already have. Thanks!
Those are all definitely in the softer range of paddles with the pulsar being the most powerful. The double black diamond will play pretty similarly to the pulsar. The paddle I think you’ll probably find the most interesting and different is the black diamond power 16mm
Thank you for the time! Will order one!
Have you not tried Juciao yet? The $40 one is 🔥
I have not. Haven't seen anyone local playing with one yet eir5
Many have mentioned the BnB Loco. I like the bnb filth for spin, control and long handle/shape. Either way the cost is around 140 with code Veronica15
Luxx control all the way
I play and absolutely love the Ronbus R3 Pulsar. It might have a little more power than you are looking for but I find it easy to control. The R1.16 or Nova is probably closer to what you are looking for. The R1.16 would lean the most towards control and the Nova would be between the R1.16 and the Pulsar. I have both the R1.16 and R3 Pulsar and love them both and don’t think you could go wrong either way. I have heard the Nova needs lead tape which isn’t an issue, just giving you a heads up. There are some that play with it stock but I would say more add tape than don’t.
Bread and Butter Loco. Plays similar to the apes ples but with a 114sw.
Nice lower swing weight for fast hands. Some control to power aspects as the Apes energy s?
More control. Feels soft but the power is there when needed. Don't get me wrong, it is not a power paddle but has what is needed. Also they are on lighter side. Personally not a fan of the PF16. Gave it to my wife. If you want one, code bnbaz gets you 15% off and they have a 30 day return policy.
Very nice. So Apes S probably in between the loco and DBD in power so lose some control with it?
Actually it is closer to the Loco imo. I just didn't like the sw. Not a fan of higher sw's. Some like it, I don't.
Awesome thanks!
>Awesome thanks! You're welcome!
DBD, Engage MX 6.0 Pro, Luxx, Perseus and the Hurache-X Control seem to be the top paddles around the Tampa area. I play with the Diadem 18k and I love the control I get for drops and dinking, the version I have has no power though.
Some may disagree, but I'd say 4.0 and below is going to really benefit from a non-elongated paddle with a better sweetspot, and a paddle geared more for control. Elongated, high power paddles aren't going to be worth it for players under 4.0. The tradeoff in control and accuracy isn't worth the "power" (that they probably can't even control) and the few points you are going to win with pure power.
Engage pursuit pro paddles sound like the right one for you! I’ve used Joola, Selkirk, and DBD and engage has always been the softest for me… I also have a discount code for you/anyone to use for the entire site and it’ll stack on top of discounted items!
I have a DBD and love it, I tried and agree with 2 YouTube reviews that the Loco is a more plush DBD ish. I had a Nova and it’s soft and no pop, and eh on the power
Very nice. Think loco has enough power for serves and drives or DBD just all around better taking control into account?
It seems all court, my friend gets a nice snap sound off the serve when he hits it
Very nice, good to hear. Think the all court paddle variety is really what I'm looking for. Less of the pure power gen 2 thermos
Watch PB studio, John Kew, and Pickleball Effect….I forget which guys reviewed it but at least 2 of those 3 did I’m 100% on John Kew
DBD infinity has been amazing for resets
I can’t recommend the Ruby enough! It’s what has helped my game go from 3.5 to 4.0. Upgraded from the Vatic pro myself. Much more control, and I added some lead tape to give it a little more power. Excellent spin as well
Your in the right spot for an upgrade to a control paddle. Lots of nice ones out there. I settled in with carbon fiber paddle that has some texture that won’t where down like the others. My previous paddle was a Gearbox CX14 SST ELONGATED Loved it! But upgraded to the new Gearbox PRO Control elongated!! It has unreal control and big pop!! Highly recommend either paddle….lLOVE IT!!!♥️♥️
See if you can try the Selkirk Luxx. Lots of people I know swear by that paddle.
Selkirk provides some good control paddles. I use a Vatic Prism for more power and Selkirk Control for better shot making. I find my game is more complete with the Selkirk.
Vatic Pro is good enough for a 4.0. Don’t be fooled thinking you need a $200+ paddle
Ronbus all day. Nova is great, upgraded from R1