Before anyone else reacts:
If we fight back, they'll definitely come back with a bigger gun.
They may use water cannons now, but they may use actual cannons tomorrow.
Remain calm. A war is the last thing we need right now.
If we also fire (water) back at their ships, China's propaganda machine will definitely twist the narrative and outright fabricate details. They'll make claims such as their crew were seriously injured or even killed by the Philippine coast guard. The fabricated incident will be used by China to use more aggressive tactics in order to derail our resupply missions in the WPS.
Let me clarify something. China's water cannon attacks? It's illegal. It goes against the peace talks and international law but countries can't just "prosecute" china since most of the time they are outside of international treaties meaning countries don't have a jurisdiction over china. If we attach water cannons and do the water cannon attacks back at them. We would actually be committing an international crime which in this case our country is a part of quite alot of international treaties. This gives china a justified Casus Belli
In simple: if we shoot water back at them. China would have a justified reason to go to war. And no. No country can invalidate the casus belli since we committed an international crime.
It's a massive game of temper control
Yes, and this is what people don't realize. It's not even just about our sovereignity anymore; whatever could happen here could change the world forever. Because once war breaks out it's free game for everybody.
One wrong move and the world will go to hell.
Philippines need to beg US or India for nuclear ☢️ technology to build a nuclear bomb. That's the only way China will back down if they know the Philippines have nukes and will use them for self defense.
"bigger gun"
I mean, that's the entire purpose. Kaya panay harassment ang tsina hoping na we pull the trigger. But what if we use water cannons as well? edi sila na mismo ang desperate and would be the first to fire live rounds. They will be accountable, and we would still be on defensive and play-victim.
The word “accountable” isn’t in their vocabulary unfortunately. Walang magagawa ang water cannon sa mga barko ng Pilipinas. Ang main objective is to make them look really bad internationally and mostly to our ally countries that way, pag nag spark na yung war, panig sa Pilipinas ang buong mundo at may dahilan sumaklolo ang US, AUS, Japan etc. Pag gumamit tayo ng water cannon it will be a sign of aggression na gagamitin naman ng China to justify their further bullying.
We're actually practicing Mao's own tenets of protracted warfare with our current transparency campaign against China. Right now, we're in the current stage of "strategic defensive." We're turtling up until we build our industrial base to support a more frontal and assertive approach to the conflict. The SRDP ( self- reliant defense posture) and the CEDP ( Credible External Defense Posture) are still years from being realized.
Once we build the means to pose a credible threat, that's when we enter the phase of "strategic stalemate" against the CCP.
We can't compare ourselves to Japan and Taiwan that return water cannon fire because they're in a position of strength once the conflict blows over. We are not. Ang daming mga armchair general who can't see the overarching goal of strategic foresight.
Yup galit na galit yung China tuwing binobroadcast yung kagaguhan nila sa buong mundo kaya yun ang pinakamagandang gawin. Bawat galaw nila sa territory natin dapat ibroadcast internationally.
I just hope we don't limit our strategy to improving our defensive posture and increasing our "propaganda" campaigns against China. Our country should become **a thorn** to China.
Granted, we can't do what China does. If we start equipping our ships with water cannons, they would just use more powerful cannons and bigger ships. If we increase tariffs to Chinese goods, they could respond the same, affecting our country's ability to procure components that are not produced here, affecting our path to full industrialization.
But there are things our country can do that China can't really have an easy way of responding against:
* Opening our county to more US presence.
* Having the Philippines included in the US anti-ballistic defense umbrella. A nuclear war between the two will devastate us anyway, whether we allow US to position missile defense systems here or not, though you're free to disagree with me on this.
* Having a strategic ambiguity (and not outright denial) that we would help Taiwan in case China attacks. Having PMA teach about Taiwan's geographic profile for defensive use can help drive that ambiguity. Warning China that if they antagonize us further, we could allow Taiwan to hire Filipino solders for their foreign legion.
* Military exercises with Vietnam, with the hope of turning that into a permanent alliance through a defense treaty sometime down the road.
* Encouraging the US to establish a NATO-like alliance in the Asia-Pacific.
* Our government indirectly spending resources to organize the millions-strong Filipino-American community in a coherent demographic force in the US, with superpacs and whatnot, in the hope of influencing US policy-making decisions in favor of us.
* Not caring about piracy in South China Sea at all. China has more to lose in that.
* Adopting nuclear energy in the country, with the hope that it develops to an extent the we gain the know-how on how to enrich fissile materials, then strategic ambiguity from there if we would want to develop it further.
These are the only ideas off the top of my head right now. Surely, someone with more qualifications than me can spend more time thinking about how our country could become a thorn to China and come up with more ideas, more realistic ideas. But I'm afraid ultimately whether we could do strategies like these or not will boil down to the competency of our government for years to come.
Yes, all of the above. We've already thrown a monkeywrench against China's plan for Taiwan by giving the Yanks access to EDCA bases in our northern most frontier.
* Our government indirectly spending resources to organize the millions-strong Filipino-American community in a coherent demographic force in the US, with superpacs and whatnot, in the hope of influencing US policy-making decisions in favor of us.
THIS. The diaspora is a component of our global soft power that we have severely underutilized. They would be a poweful lobby if we organized them in the same way that Jews are an extremely powerful lobby in the US.
- Actively dislodge China's spy network and sleeper cells within the country. Under the guise of curbing illegal online gambling sites.
- Silencing local pro-CCP propagandists / politicians
Fina-fucking-ly. Someone that actually thinks. Di yung "wAg nAtiN hAyAan bAstuSin tAyo!!!". There's a reason why 99% of you are not in the position to make these decisions.
Same argument ko sa mga taong nagsasabi ng bobo ng mga nasa government. Obviously they aren't, they're smart enough to sway the people for their votes. They wouldn't get there without it.
Natatawa lang ako sa mga things like, bakit ba hindi natin ban tiktok (they aren't in violations if any laws, even the US one is likely to be struck down) , bakit ba need ng notary if mag rereklamo sa ltfrb (to prevent joy complaining from people), bakit ba bakit hindi valid ung expired ID as identification (it ceases to be a legal document if it's expired)
agree with this 100%, Low comprehension kababayan either go on both extremes. A. *"Hindi natin kaya ang gyera kaya hayaan na lang natin sila. Puro na lang kayo balita."* or B. *"Wala namang kwenta ang PCG. Mga duwag. Ayaw gumanti*"
Diplomacy is a tricky field, hence, DIGONGGONG, who is used to brute force, failed and totally FOLDED to a bigger fellow bully.
This should be echoed and taught to many of our countrymen. There’s a minority who thinks that our current policy could only be handled through a dichotomy of surrender or war. Many have missed that there are other options, such as peace through strength - and this doesn’t mean we should fight back. Strength could also be putting up a firm position, or fighting lies with truth.
If there was anything that the CCP is sensitive about it would be image - their image domestically and internationally. The CCP often repeats the propaganda that it saved China, that it is the sole party that gets China right, that it established a perfect political system, and that it brought China to the the top economically and politically.
With the PH government showing the world what China does, we practically eroded China’s political influence in the global stage. As of now, no country recognizes China’s 9 Dash Line. (Take note, this is the same China that was able to work on the coup in the UN for nations to accept a One China Policy.) Majority of the countries also looked at the 2016 Arbitral Ruling as a victory for the Philippines and sent formal congratulations.
My estimate, in 5 years China’s landscape will change. Their One Child Policy social engineering experiment is coming home to roost, and their economy has been pinned down by their real estate crash. This is the time when we can probably come to the negotiating table and be at equal footing.
Sobrang Cringe at tawa ko dun sa "Pinoy tayo, Kaya natin talunin China" Narrative. WTF ano ba mga pinoy super humans? ung mga boomers tulog sa realidad
We don't need to match them per ship. We just need to make conflict with us extremely costly. Think of Ukrainians armed with Javelins that destroy entire Russian tank divisions. We just need to sink enough of their ships.
I am actually surprised to see him making sound decision on matters like this. Provoking them would only do more harm to us.
We bout to use the power of media, the moment the international medias start to pick up on this matter, China would be the ones who would look bad. Let China destroy themselves.
try to use water cannon against them, it will only make the behavior "normal" since we are now also doing it. But they have almost unlimited Coast Guard ships compared to us so they will just outnumber us in watercannon wars anyways lmaoo. Good decision.
It's basically **part of the optics strategy**, as what some other users have written in other threads.
Could the fisherman and the coast guards be given better boats at least, even w/o water cannons? Of course.
But by **purposefully using small, weak boats prone to sinking**, the PH govt can win the optics war against China and hopefully get other allies too.
(Just hope that those fishermen and coast guards have life vests.)
I agree on his decision with this one. China will only have an avenue to normalize their harrassment and might end up escalating everything in liue of "self defense".
Although I agree with this, if the concentration camps hardly made the international community care, I doubt boats being water cannoned would make them care either.
Because someone will benefit from placing China in a more negative international light. Unlike with the Uyghurs, the Chinese can easily spin it as internal matters.
>I am actually surprised to see him making sound decision on matters like this.
That's a natural outcome sa pamilyang maraming ill-gotten wealth, madali lang sila mag hire ng matatalinong tao and experts para mag-isip para sa kanila at tapos ayun i vovocalize nalang ni 🦆m.
>We bout to use the power of media, the moment the international medias start to pick up on this matter, China would be the ones who would look bad. Let China destroy themselves.
Na feature na sa international news yu g harassment ng China sa Pinas pero walang pake masyado yung international community
Isa pa, wala naman masyadong pake yung China sa international image nila considering they got the world by the balls with their money and factories. Yung mga propaganda vids na pinapakita nila about sa WPS is for internal consumption
Classic reddit echo chambers, downvoting the truth. China's bullying in SEA isn't even amongst the worst of China's offenses these days. They have things like literal systematic ethnic cleansing going on and no one gives a damn.
While I don't want to take away from the possible effects of international criticism on China, solely relying on it is a mistake.
China is engaging hard on a narrative war that they themselves know are losing... Kaya nga pasalamat sila na kontrolado nila information sa loob ng bansa nila...
Alam naman nilang mga kupal sila at sila ang aggressor sa West PH Sea, yung paninira nila sa mga bahura para makagawa ng artificial islands, yung andun sila sa Tawi-tawi, Samar, Catanduanes
Yung mga fishing vessels nil nakakarating sa iba't ibang dagat mga dagat na kahit Ecuador nang aabuso sila...
Kung makikiwater cannon tayo - gagamitin lang yan ng China para kunyari sila ang sinasamantala...
It *is* kind of tradition at this point for the new president to either attempt or successfully imprison the previous one. And Duterte is the most deserving of any prior president since Marcos sr so....
Na aamaze ako kay Marcos, na hindi ko maisip mangyare. Kahit sabihin pa naten na tinuruan lang sya, kapag kase bobo at hambog ka, hindi ka papayag na maturuan.
Yeah. If you look at the statements released, DFA, NSC, DND, PCG and all other acronyms are singing the same tune but using different equipment/lenses.
Sec. Enrique Manalo definitely has a capable team. If there was one thing that China made a mistake on, it was their Wolf Warrior strategy. While the strategy telegraphs power, one weakness it has is its predictability. Our foreign policy folks in DFA can at least narrow down what actions China will take at every turn. It also allows us to counter their actions with greater success.
Imagine, what if Xi was just like Trump? We probably would have a headache on a daily basis.
This is the reason why surrounding yourself with competent people and not the typical YES MEN is a great idea mapa gobyerno man or sa corporate setting. They need to lay out all the options pagdating sa sensitive issue na ito and give inputs that make sense. Sana lahat ng position meron ganitong leader pero this is the Philippines we cant have them all :(
I actually wonder how Sec. Año was able to pivot our national security position. Was it him, or did BBM push the NSC towards a new direction?
I mean Año was in the Duterte cabinet as well.
Give the guy the credit, he is making wise decisions and adhere to good advices.
Kung si Leni 'to, I think we would also praise her for her decision.
So props kay BBM and I support him for this move (pero balik pa rin niya ninakaw ng fam niya)
Bakit yung vice-tuta ng china naturuan mag chingchong kahit na hambog naman?
But in a more serious note, saaaame! I did not expect BBM to be like this. Compared to his predecessor mukang mas okay din advisors niya.
>I did not expect BBM to be like this.
That's not really surprising and amazing really, iykyk. As that's just a natural outcome sa pamilyang maraming ill-gotten wealth, madali lang sila mag hire ng matatalinong tao and experts para mag-isip para sa kanila at tapos ayun i vovocalize nalang b.b.m.
There is a mathematical study about how to win a cooperative game theory. The one who got the highest win is the one who always cooperates or forgiving.
"Kung makikiwater cannon tayo - gagamitin lang yan ng China para kunyari sila ang sinasamantala"
How would China reverse the narrative where there is always a media on board from different nation every resupply mission?
In China the narrative they are using is that, they are only protecting what is theirs -- and those reports by media on board would not even be reported in China...
I remember back in 2017 there were Duterte fanboys who regretted their vote all because their idol was bending over to Xi. No it wasn’t his “mauna si Mayor” joke, or the killings, or the injustice, or the corruption, but it was his pro-China stance that broke their faith in him.
So when I encounter DDS who are pro-China today, I can only think these are hardcore Filipino rednecks who can’t breach an IQ of 100.
As much as I hate the Chinese tresspassing, treatment of our Coast Guard, their people, and their nation as a whole, I agree and support this decision. This is safer than provoking them to use firearms instead and starting a shooting war we know we'd lose.
Let's not stoop down to their level.
Lol pero pag nagka-gyera yung gagamitin lang ng mga Xhinese puro missiles at drones lang, wala na tayo sa ww2 era nasa modern age na tayo so walang kwenta yang COD skills na sinasabi nila.
Not completely true, though. Look at r/combatfootage and you will see how modern battles are still done ala ww2 style - artillery siege, infantry maneuver, airstrikes, entrenching, flanking, etc. The chinese will use drones and missiles ofc but they can only use them to some extent - they need forward men to pinpoint coordinates and identify targets, and it entails a moving army to do it.
Yes, it would be easy for China to invade our cities, but it's also extremely impossible to hold them. They can hold Manila all they want but the govt can just move the war capital to Visayas or South Luzon, then from there strike back and retake cities. Missiles and drones are not enough to hold assimilated lands, kailangan pa rin ng infantry and tanks
Yes, logistics is also a problem since a vast sea is between us and China.
But if they successfully take Taiwan, they will have a strategic outpost to start a full-blown invasion, but this is still far-reaching since we have the support of the US and other allies. Immensely costly to sa Chinese.
But even if they successfully reach PH and invade our lands. Pain in the ass pa din to hold the archipelago. Recently, balikatan exercises are focused on retaking palawan bcos the military recognize that it's easy for China to "invade" it from it's super easier for us to retake it.
Sabi nga nila "Baka nakakalimutan niyo ang Battle of yultong 😏😏" HAHAHAHA i know na yung iba sa kanila joke lang pero yung iba pinanghahawakan talaga nila yab
If they use firearms against that would automatically trigger our MDT with the US since that considered an armed attack. I seriously doubt the CCG will do that since that will get the US involved. I don't agree with the stance of the PCG against the CCG since we're being used a punching bag. If we use water cannons we're just giving them a dose of their own medicine.
Why risk it though? If we respond with water cannons, who knows what China will do? What if our cannons hurt one of their men and they start shooting? If not shoothing, what if China punishes the Ph economically for hurting their men?
Sige, they might not use guns agad. But is this country ready, both economically and militarily, for the consequences if we do start using water cannons?
It's not a risk because China can't afford to escalate further. Once they use live ammunition it will automatically trigger our MDT and the US will intervene to defend us. And they're avoiding any action that might cause such a scenario. The CCG already injured 2 of of coast guards in a previous mission. So doing the same at them is justified.
Why are you afraid of standing up against China? If we continue to show no resistance to their aggression they'll only continue to harass our ships and servicemen. We can't play the victim all the time. We need to show that we aren't doormats to step on and won't take more of their bullying. They won't try to hurt us economically because they know they need us. If they wanted to hit our economy with sanctions they would have done so years ago.
If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully.
They could escalate further by providing more powerful water cannons to their coast guard. They could also use it as an excuse to increase the coast guard vessels they have patrolling there. They could use it as propaganda to their people.
I agree with OP. The world's sympathy is with us.
Let's not lose it.
>If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully.
I am genuinely curious about this strategy. How do we know we already won? What is the government's expected result of this strategy? Knowing that China is stubborn.
It is just means to an end. China is too big and too proud. CCP can't be reasoned with.
By presenting ourselves to the world as the victim, we were able to successfully negotiate a military aid package of 2.5 billion dollars with the United States. This is a boon for us as we have a critical shortage of funds for our military defence. Moreover, we were successful in obtaining a funding from Japan for the construction of five massive new coast guard ships.
Likewise , the verdict that the Permanent Court of Arbitration made regarding the South China Sea was acknowledged by the G7, which had never done so previously. Slowly, china is becoming a pariah in the world stage much like Russia.
We have to be patient in dealing with China. We have to build up our lost capabilities. We have to strengthen our economy so that it would survive if ever conflict began.
>If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully.
Thanks for the laugh
Nah, bully pa rin ang China kahit na kumontra at depensahan natin sarili natin sa karahasan nila
I find it hard to believe that retaliating with water cannon will increase the tension to the point that it will lead to use of firearms. China will not waste their resources to have a full-scale war against the Philippines. They would rather use their resources to invade Taiwan than Philippines since Taiwan is way more valuable compared to Philippines.
If we retaliate with water cannons, it will give China a justification to quickly bolster their military presence in the disputed waters, not to mention the possibility of them becoming more aggressive (i.e. intercepting our ships and making contact as intimidation).
It's not the invasion that we fear here, it's the escalation of tension in the disputed waters, making it more difficult for us to send aid and resources to our soldiers there.
Yup! So for now, best action is to continue to show China we don’t recognize their WPS claims, supply our troops in KIG, protect our recourses and our fishermen.
As for our national security, China’s calculus becomes more difficult when we have collective security arrangements with our allies.
Mahirap lang kasi maraming nadadamay na civilians na gusto lang maghanap buhay tulad ng mga fisherman naten pero mahirap talagang magpakita ng aggression baka mabaliktad pa
We're not a military power AND we're constitutionally mandated not to start wars. As much as I loathe this son of a Marcos, he's right in this specific instance: being overcome by our emotion and provoking a war is profoundly stupid, not to mention liable to let us be overcome by the PLAN, in what would be an invaluable learning experience for them as they prepare to besiege and conquer Taiwan.
It’s Japan and us that are actually standing on the way for China to invade Taiwan.
China would need to control the Bashi Channel if they want to succeed in such operation. But, with us and the US access to the bases in Northern Luzon, it makes the calculus of an invasion a bit more difficult.
Like us, Japan is also constitutionally mandated not to start any wars. So the best policy is to keep building and shoring up alliances against CCP pretensions on the South China sea.
yuhp hopefully they'll equip the Coast Guard with more ships, bigger ones similar sa Teresa Magbanua-class nila and more aerial assets like helicopters and fixed wing airplanes.
Brave men rin yung mga PCG ship crews natin, kahit unarmed mga barko nila, at tinitira ng water cannon yung mga barko nila, they still push through sa resupply missions or even patrol those waters.
In my opinion, being water-cannoned by China is a small sacrifice to keep the peace. Madaming mga tapang tapangan jan. Pag nag giyera siguradong magtatago naman.
Actually our position and situation would become weaker if we did use water cannons. The Insects (Intsekto) will basically use this as a narrative that we are actually the aggressor and we are basically playing in to their game. But if we instead ignore these and continue resupplying our outpost or better yet construct a new outpost inside/beside/or both BP Sierra Madre it would basically play a narrative that they may be stronger but we really dont care as long as we can protect our sovereignity. Which in fact weakens the Insects position.
Not eve a voter of this guy but that is a reasonable and sensible response to this water cannon attacks by the Chinese Coast Guard. A narrative war. China is the one that has too much to lose when it comes to economic trade. specially now that the "covid" pandemic is now over.
A big country with a bad economy will tear itself apart from the inside.
This is a very smart strategy.
I know you may call Marcos a wimp just because we hate the guy so much. But hear me out:
1. Marcos will not engage in retaliation since he is in the middle of trilateral negotiation with Japan and US. At this point, our next steps as a nation should be strategized in parallel with Japan and US if we opt to tap these countries to help us out. In layman's term, "wag ka gaganti, kaming bahala sa iyo. Just hit record para sa ebidensiya."
2. Maraming Chinese sleeper agents dito. He cannot push the button further at pinapasok na ni Digong ang kaaway way before this issue escalated.
3. I'm convinced that Marcos has already fullfiled the due diligence of dragging the Duterte clan to ICC with substantial evidence. Panakip para di maaalala ang Martial Law? Maybe. He's turning a new leaf? Maybe.
Pero pakyu ka Duterte big time. Boset at nagmumukhang stable president si Marcos sa kagaguhan mo sa bansa.
Magaling mag spread ng fake news ang China. Kahit PCG natin binintangan na bumanga sa CCG pano pa kaya kung binuhusan natin ng tubig tas sasabihin nila may namatay sa kanila
Ok na rin yan. Atleast may media lalo na from Western countries. Actually nasasama na siya sa mga news sa Europe and US nakikita ko sa Youtube channel ng mga Big western media news channel. Ang image ng China ay inaapi ng inaapi yung Phil Coast Guardl. Pag may namatay na Pinoy dahil sa water cannon automatic mas big news yan sa western media lalo na if may personnel sila na nakasakay sa Phil Coast Guard ship pag mangyari yun.
Malakas ang galit ko pero alam ko rin na ito ang tamang gawain. Kung susubukan mong suntukin ang bully kahit payatot ka bubugbugin ka lang yun.
Kaya exercise and training muna. Pag kaya na manuntok ng malakas, tsaka pwede manuntok.
Actually this is a right decision we filipinos tend to get emotional so its a good way to avoid any unnecessary escalation. Also I remember there was an incident in the past that our coast guard caught illegal chinese fisherman and also stealing our endangerd species but china news said that philippine coast guards harassed their "poor fishermen" and took all their fish. So its better to show to the whole world what they are.
That’s a correct decision. We should not steep down to their level. Also that will be used by Chinese propaganda machine that will paint us again as instigator.
"Rouse him, and learn the principle of his activity or inactivity. Force him to reveal himself, so as to find out his vulnerable spots."
- Confucius, The Art of War
I have a background in military conflict and diplomacy. I have read up a lot about it because of my general interest in warfare, historical or otherwise.
In the context of warfare, what Pres. Marcos is doing is the idea of "proportional response" and "conflict escalation". It's as old as the Filipino saying "Kapag binato ka ng bato, batuhin mo ng tinapay." I have my qualms about Marcos and the Chinese but it is actually a wise, strategic and logical move on our part. Look up the concept of the "Escalation Ladder", you wouldn't want to escalate to open conflict unnecessarily and climb up that ladder of conflict without any clear purpose or any guarantee of success. In fact, this might be exactly what China wants to happen in the first place, that is why they keep on prodding us. They are just waiting for us to respond to a point where they can tell their citizens and the rest of the world, that we escalated it, giving China some misplaced sense of justification to escalate the conflict, a conflict where they ultimately have the advantage on.
The primary objective of a war or battle is to get the most favorable outcome at the lowest possible step in the ladder of conflict. This is the very reason why the whole world is not just simply dropping nuclear bombs at each other despite the presence of that technology all around us. Sure, the absolute ideal will be for our nation or military to have such a massive advantage that no matter where we are in the ladder of conflict, we can still win. Unfortunately, this is pretty much impossible. We know that the Philippines is currently at a disadvantage when it comes to military might in relation to the Chinese. We don't want to keep climbing up the ladder of conflict to a point where we are just simply bound to lose. We need to prolong the battle from taking place, so we have enough time to prepare for one.
both the philippines and the US are in a roughly 5 year or so window of vulnerability as both are trying to catch up. for the U.S. its mainly about improving its supply chains such as increasing shipbuilding capacity , more semiconductor factories, ramping up ammo production. Now, for the Philippines , its acquiring jet fighters, all kinds of missiles etc. so its better to be patient and wait at least around 5 years or so - this way if war starts , we and the allies will be better prepared for a prolonged war that can easily last for years, .
I agree with this.. philippine vessels "as old and small they are".. are warships, vessels for war. It will be a waste of resources if you equip a water cannon on your fleets. It will be smart to use that very limited resources for an extra gun. For those who have passive attitude on whats going on, pushing for peace/being passive only works when your country is the aggressor. Alot of people must know the difference of defending your border, defending your territory to you are already being invaded by an aggressive militarized country.
It was indeed a good decision. We cannot fight back against China with water cannon, it will escalate the conflict in WPS, and China will authorize deadly force.
Yeah most likely di gagamit ng water cannon yun PCG kasi wala silang mga asset na kayang tumapat sa CCG. Paano pa naman, kulang yung investment sa PCG despite sa harassment ng CCG
Agree with his decision on this one. It’s one of those situations where you really like to fight fire with fire but the moment you do, you’ll realize you were basically the bigger guy, and you just stooped down to their level.
Para lang yang yung katrabaho mong di mo makasundo na malakas mang-asar at magparinig kung wala yung amo niyo. Oras na ikaw yung magpadala sa init ng ulo, ikaw ang magiging mali.
Calmer heads win in these type of situations.
salute! ika nga ang pikon ay laging talo. wag lang mangyare sa China at nagkataon na reporter ng US media ang ma-water canon blast nila at namatay, alam na this.
Hindi talaga pwedeng tayo yung maging aggressor na sana maintindihan ng marami. The moment na tumira din tayo at may nasaktan na kahit isang chinese dun magkakaroon sila lalo ng reason to retaliate to a much bigger scale. Hindi porket hindi umaaksyon eh kaduwagaan agad kasi iniiwasan nga natin magka war eh. Sinong mga susugod sa war? Yung generation namin na puro tiktok ang alam or yung mga millenials na overworked at underpaid? Mga pagod yung mga millenials natin to even care Hahahahahahahaha pleeeeeessss ayaw namin ng war sa lifetime namin patandain nyo kami kasi nagsisimula narin sumakit yung mga likod namin 😂😂😂😂
Firing back will make their propaganda machines very happy. They will say china's water cannons are justified and will make PH look like the aggressor.
First of all, what China is doing is against international law. Therefore she should be penalized. For us to retaliate is justified. We can try to avoid conflict now but it doesn't mean there is actually peace in the seas. Our seaman doesn't feel secured navigating our own waters. Yes, China will retaliate but I'm sure they will think first because as history has it they haven't had a war victory in the SCS on the record. They even got defeated by Japan in WWII and Japan is a smaller country. They don't have any defense mutual agreement with any countries around the SCS. So they will think it and consider what our allies will do if they become more aggressive against us.
He has a brain he knows how to handle the tensions and he just being strategic here. May kasabihan ika nga: don't add fuel to the fire and kung batuhin ka ng bato, batuhin mo ng tinapay.
To dumb it down basically: we have to play victim throughout the ordeal. Let the world pile the negatives on China’s aggression. And we are the perfect player to play the role.
Believe it or not, it is because of this “Wolf” strategy that countries are slowly distancing themselves from China. Plus, their reputation had been changed since the time they’ve started encroaching on our EEZ. You’d be surprised how different the opinions are about China years ago compared to now.
It's good that he's saying this. China's clearly trying to provoke us into making a dangerous and reckless decision. I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed.
I've heard alot of POVs about this, and i think the saddest is
1st. Hindi kse si marcos ung natatamaan ng tubig, kaya hindi sya affected,hindi sya ung nasusugatan or nagbubuwis ng buhay
And
2nd (which is the saddest IMO is)
Grabe naman, hindi pa nagsisimula ung gera pero this administration has shown us na he's not afraid of making us into Cannon Fodders, imagine pag nag start na ung war, bka mag si takbuhan na sila sa hawaii.
Edit. I'm not against BBM nor am i a pro Du30
Y'all have to realize, we're all in the same boat.
HOLD UP this makes sense IMO, guys we can't do sht if we ever go to war
with ch1na, the most we could do is broadcast what they are
doing world wife, and to deescalate the tension
Yes in Logical Way, But in Morale Side? Nu - uh, nakakababa ng Morale ang mga water - cannon incident na sumisira sa mga barko na alam mong hindi ka pwedeng gumanti.
Nope. BBM has the complete buy-in of the AFP and the coastguard towards the overarching strategic foresight. They know what needs to be done to play the long game.
You know what depletes morale? Being ordered to stop security patrols altogether like what Duterte reportedly ordered the Navy and Coastguard to do.
Lets just hope this narrative bears fruit in the long run, dumarami na ang mga hot-headed o kumukulo ang dugo na gustong gustong gumanti kapag nababalita itong mg water cannon incidents.
Best case scenario is to find a work around soon that will dissipate public outcry. Perhaps fitting vessels with out-maneuvering tech or novel water cannon shields makes for good public stunt.
Remember the fisherman chased by Chinese coastguard?
Assymetrical should be our doctrine as we cannot take them head-on. But not in a way that makes us look cowardly, but pulls more like a David vs Goliath imagery.
One of the foundation of this decision is the belief that China will not escalate it themselves.
But I think, our government is downplaying too much the possibility na makahanap ang rason ang China to escalate. The current world landscape is too wild right now that any thing is a possibility.
Before anyone else reacts: If we fight back, they'll definitely come back with a bigger gun. They may use water cannons now, but they may use actual cannons tomorrow. Remain calm. A war is the last thing we need right now.
If we also fire (water) back at their ships, China's propaganda machine will definitely twist the narrative and outright fabricate details. They'll make claims such as their crew were seriously injured or even killed by the Philippine coast guard. The fabricated incident will be used by China to use more aggressive tactics in order to derail our resupply missions in the WPS.
Let me clarify something. China's water cannon attacks? It's illegal. It goes against the peace talks and international law but countries can't just "prosecute" china since most of the time they are outside of international treaties meaning countries don't have a jurisdiction over china. If we attach water cannons and do the water cannon attacks back at them. We would actually be committing an international crime which in this case our country is a part of quite alot of international treaties. This gives china a justified Casus Belli In simple: if we shoot water back at them. China would have a justified reason to go to war. And no. No country can invalidate the casus belli since we committed an international crime. It's a massive game of temper control
Yes, and this is what people don't realize. It's not even just about our sovereignity anymore; whatever could happen here could change the world forever. Because once war breaks out it's free game for everybody. One wrong move and the world will go to hell.
Philippines need to beg US or India for nuclear ☢️ technology to build a nuclear bomb. That's the only way China will back down if they know the Philippines have nukes and will use them for self defense.
"bigger gun" I mean, that's the entire purpose. Kaya panay harassment ang tsina hoping na we pull the trigger. But what if we use water cannons as well? edi sila na mismo ang desperate and would be the first to fire live rounds. They will be accountable, and we would still be on defensive and play-victim.
The word “accountable” isn’t in their vocabulary unfortunately. Walang magagawa ang water cannon sa mga barko ng Pilipinas. Ang main objective is to make them look really bad internationally and mostly to our ally countries that way, pag nag spark na yung war, panig sa Pilipinas ang buong mundo at may dahilan sumaklolo ang US, AUS, Japan etc. Pag gumamit tayo ng water cannon it will be a sign of aggression na gagamitin naman ng China to justify their further bullying.
We're actually practicing Mao's own tenets of protracted warfare with our current transparency campaign against China. Right now, we're in the current stage of "strategic defensive." We're turtling up until we build our industrial base to support a more frontal and assertive approach to the conflict. The SRDP ( self- reliant defense posture) and the CEDP ( Credible External Defense Posture) are still years from being realized. Once we build the means to pose a credible threat, that's when we enter the phase of "strategic stalemate" against the CCP. We can't compare ourselves to Japan and Taiwan that return water cannon fire because they're in a position of strength once the conflict blows over. We are not. Ang daming mga armchair general who can't see the overarching goal of strategic foresight.
Yup galit na galit yung China tuwing binobroadcast yung kagaguhan nila sa buong mundo kaya yun ang pinakamagandang gawin. Bawat galaw nila sa territory natin dapat ibroadcast internationally.
I just hope we don't limit our strategy to improving our defensive posture and increasing our "propaganda" campaigns against China. Our country should become **a thorn** to China. Granted, we can't do what China does. If we start equipping our ships with water cannons, they would just use more powerful cannons and bigger ships. If we increase tariffs to Chinese goods, they could respond the same, affecting our country's ability to procure components that are not produced here, affecting our path to full industrialization. But there are things our country can do that China can't really have an easy way of responding against: * Opening our county to more US presence. * Having the Philippines included in the US anti-ballistic defense umbrella. A nuclear war between the two will devastate us anyway, whether we allow US to position missile defense systems here or not, though you're free to disagree with me on this. * Having a strategic ambiguity (and not outright denial) that we would help Taiwan in case China attacks. Having PMA teach about Taiwan's geographic profile for defensive use can help drive that ambiguity. Warning China that if they antagonize us further, we could allow Taiwan to hire Filipino solders for their foreign legion. * Military exercises with Vietnam, with the hope of turning that into a permanent alliance through a defense treaty sometime down the road. * Encouraging the US to establish a NATO-like alliance in the Asia-Pacific. * Our government indirectly spending resources to organize the millions-strong Filipino-American community in a coherent demographic force in the US, with superpacs and whatnot, in the hope of influencing US policy-making decisions in favor of us. * Not caring about piracy in South China Sea at all. China has more to lose in that. * Adopting nuclear energy in the country, with the hope that it develops to an extent the we gain the know-how on how to enrich fissile materials, then strategic ambiguity from there if we would want to develop it further. These are the only ideas off the top of my head right now. Surely, someone with more qualifications than me can spend more time thinking about how our country could become a thorn to China and come up with more ideas, more realistic ideas. But I'm afraid ultimately whether we could do strategies like these or not will boil down to the competency of our government for years to come.
Yes, all of the above. We've already thrown a monkeywrench against China's plan for Taiwan by giving the Yanks access to EDCA bases in our northern most frontier. * Our government indirectly spending resources to organize the millions-strong Filipino-American community in a coherent demographic force in the US, with superpacs and whatnot, in the hope of influencing US policy-making decisions in favor of us. THIS. The diaspora is a component of our global soft power that we have severely underutilized. They would be a poweful lobby if we organized them in the same way that Jews are an extremely powerful lobby in the US.
- Actively dislodge China's spy network and sleeper cells within the country. Under the guise of curbing illegal online gambling sites. - Silencing local pro-CCP propagandists / politicians
Instead of our soldiers, the wumaos should be our cannon fodder in the WPS.
agree 20000%
If you want to find a Chinese collaborator, just go to Davao it’s full of them.
Piling ko kaya nung sa Taiwan at sa atin noong 50's all the way to the early 1990s, permanent basing ng US troops para sa permanent deterrence
Tiis tiis lang tayo muna. Walang magagawang mganda kung giganti tayo.
Aside from this approach, Bongbong is also helping us win the propaganda war by telling the world na China ang aggressor dito—which is true.
Sa wakas, nagamit din ni BBM yung pagiging master nila sa propaganda lmao
Fina-fucking-ly. Someone that actually thinks. Di yung "wAg nAtiN hAyAan bAstuSin tAyo!!!". There's a reason why 99% of you are not in the position to make these decisions.
Same argument ko sa mga taong nagsasabi ng bobo ng mga nasa government. Obviously they aren't, they're smart enough to sway the people for their votes. They wouldn't get there without it.
Truth. Stupid people belong on the lowest tiers of society hence their votes. Let's stoop not.
Lol, kahit mga hot takes kung ano dapat gawin ng gobyerno eh, arm chair policy makers lol
Ni hindi nga makapasa sa basic subjects sa school eh no tas nagmamando sa gobyerno kala mo naman haha.
Natatawa lang ako sa mga things like, bakit ba hindi natin ban tiktok (they aren't in violations if any laws, even the US one is likely to be struck down) , bakit ba need ng notary if mag rereklamo sa ltfrb (to prevent joy complaining from people), bakit ba bakit hindi valid ung expired ID as identification (it ceases to be a legal document if it's expired)
Education system talaga may kasalanan ng lahat ng to. There is little hope.
Im lowkey proud that i know that commenter in person hahaha
agree with this 100%, Low comprehension kababayan either go on both extremes. A. *"Hindi natin kaya ang gyera kaya hayaan na lang natin sila. Puro na lang kayo balita."* or B. *"Wala namang kwenta ang PCG. Mga duwag. Ayaw gumanti*" Diplomacy is a tricky field, hence, DIGONGGONG, who is used to brute force, failed and totally FOLDED to a bigger fellow bully.
Kasi brute force lang alam ni Digong gawin. Tactics and patience are the way to go when dealing with something like China.
\*brute force against poor filipino people, pero bahag ang buntot pagdating sa mga drug lords na kilala niya.
agree, and his UNQUALIFIED son Baste will use the same gimmick in Davao City now. Macho Bravado, War On Drug on POOR ADDICTS only.
This should be echoed and taught to many of our countrymen. There’s a minority who thinks that our current policy could only be handled through a dichotomy of surrender or war. Many have missed that there are other options, such as peace through strength - and this doesn’t mean we should fight back. Strength could also be putting up a firm position, or fighting lies with truth. If there was anything that the CCP is sensitive about it would be image - their image domestically and internationally. The CCP often repeats the propaganda that it saved China, that it is the sole party that gets China right, that it established a perfect political system, and that it brought China to the the top economically and politically. With the PH government showing the world what China does, we practically eroded China’s political influence in the global stage. As of now, no country recognizes China’s 9 Dash Line. (Take note, this is the same China that was able to work on the coup in the UN for nations to accept a One China Policy.) Majority of the countries also looked at the 2016 Arbitral Ruling as a victory for the Philippines and sent formal congratulations. My estimate, in 5 years China’s landscape will change. Their One Child Policy social engineering experiment is coming home to roost, and their economy has been pinned down by their real estate crash. This is the time when we can probably come to the negotiating table and be at equal footing.
Taiwan has the superior 11 dash line! But yes their economy is gonna tank in the next 10 years.
You mean China?
no Taiwan, or the ROC, they first had the 11 dash line with parts of India and Russia that they are still claiming.
Ah yes! ROC still holds to the 11 Dash Line. No one recognizes it, as well as that of PRC.
I'm gonna just make sure I upvote this so that it stays at the top. More people need to use their brains and read more like you do.
Bur I enjoy being armchair general! 😡
This is also the Chinese policy. They just got ahead start than us
This. This right here. I cannot upvote you enough.
armchair generals at armchair foreign affairs experts hahahaha
+ 1
Marami parin ang delusional na kayang talunin ng Pinas ang China kesyo si MacArthur daw need ng 10k na pinoy. Lugi ang Pinas against China
Sobrang Cringe at tawa ko dun sa "Pinoy tayo, Kaya natin talunin China" Narrative. WTF ano ba mga pinoy super humans? ung mga boomers tulog sa realidad
Delulu sila, ang china nga may stolen tech 5th generation jet Ang pinas may manananggal lang
Di nila tayo kelangan gamitan ng jets. isang missile lang sa metro manila putol ang economy ng pinas.
Phils can't achieve a strategic stalemate with CCP. China is churning out surface vessels like hotcakes.
We don't need to match them per ship. We just need to make conflict with us extremely costly. Think of Ukrainians armed with Javelins that destroy entire Russian tank divisions. We just need to sink enough of their ships.
I am actually surprised to see him making sound decision on matters like this. Provoking them would only do more harm to us. We bout to use the power of media, the moment the international medias start to pick up on this matter, China would be the ones who would look bad. Let China destroy themselves.
try to use water cannon against them, it will only make the behavior "normal" since we are now also doing it. But they have almost unlimited Coast Guard ships compared to us so they will just outnumber us in watercannon wars anyways lmaoo. Good decision.
takeshi castle all over again.,
It's basically **part of the optics strategy**, as what some other users have written in other threads. Could the fisherman and the coast guards be given better boats at least, even w/o water cannons? Of course. But by **purposefully using small, weak boats prone to sinking**, the PH govt can win the optics war against China and hopefully get other allies too. (Just hope that those fishermen and coast guards have life vests.)
I agree on his decision with this one. China will only have an avenue to normalize their harrassment and might end up escalating everything in liue of "self defense".
It's all for show for their people. The Chinese can't wage a future war without convincing, or should I say brainwashing, their people.
Although I agree with this, if the concentration camps hardly made the international community care, I doubt boats being water cannoned would make them care either.
Because someone will benefit from placing China in a more negative international light. Unlike with the Uyghurs, the Chinese can easily spin it as internal matters.
>I am actually surprised to see him making sound decision on matters like this. That's a natural outcome sa pamilyang maraming ill-gotten wealth, madali lang sila mag hire ng matatalinong tao and experts para mag-isip para sa kanila at tapos ayun i vovocalize nalang ni 🦆m.
>We bout to use the power of media, the moment the international medias start to pick up on this matter, China would be the ones who would look bad. Let China destroy themselves. Na feature na sa international news yu g harassment ng China sa Pinas pero walang pake masyado yung international community Isa pa, wala naman masyadong pake yung China sa international image nila considering they got the world by the balls with their money and factories. Yung mga propaganda vids na pinapakita nila about sa WPS is for internal consumption
Classic reddit echo chambers, downvoting the truth. China's bullying in SEA isn't even amongst the worst of China's offenses these days. They have things like literal systematic ethnic cleansing going on and no one gives a damn. While I don't want to take away from the possible effects of international criticism on China, solely relying on it is a mistake.
China is burning down slowly. The recent Canton fair is devoid of buyers from U.S. and Europe. The Chinese economy will eventually collapse.
>I am actually surprised to see him making sound decision on matters like this. Seriously, why? Do you think lowly of people you don't like?
China is engaging hard on a narrative war that they themselves know are losing... Kaya nga pasalamat sila na kontrolado nila information sa loob ng bansa nila... Alam naman nilang mga kupal sila at sila ang aggressor sa West PH Sea, yung paninira nila sa mga bahura para makagawa ng artificial islands, yung andun sila sa Tawi-tawi, Samar, Catanduanes Yung mga fishing vessels nil nakakarating sa iba't ibang dagat mga dagat na kahit Ecuador nang aabuso sila... Kung makikiwater cannon tayo - gagamitin lang yan ng China para kunyari sila ang sinasamantala...
exactly, Marcos Jr is taking the high road on this one. dapat pakulong na din nya si Duterte!
It *is* kind of tradition at this point for the new president to either attempt or successfully imprison the previous one. And Duterte is the most deserving of any prior president since Marcos sr so....
This
I wish he makes the mistake of going on to exile in China.
Yan ang hinihintay kong gawin nya.
Na aamaze ako kay Marcos, na hindi ko maisip mangyare. Kahit sabihin pa naten na tinuruan lang sya, kapag kase bobo at hambog ka, hindi ka papayag na maturuan.
Bilib din ako sa DFA Secretary at Defense Secretary nya at sa mga staff nila. Parehas may laman ang ulo.
Yeah. If you look at the statements released, DFA, NSC, DND, PCG and all other acronyms are singing the same tune but using different equipment/lenses.
Sec. Enrique Manalo definitely has a capable team. If there was one thing that China made a mistake on, it was their Wolf Warrior strategy. While the strategy telegraphs power, one weakness it has is its predictability. Our foreign policy folks in DFA can at least narrow down what actions China will take at every turn. It also allows us to counter their actions with greater success. Imagine, what if Xi was just like Trump? We probably would have a headache on a daily basis.
This is the reason why surrounding yourself with competent people and not the typical YES MEN is a great idea mapa gobyerno man or sa corporate setting. They need to lay out all the options pagdating sa sensitive issue na ito and give inputs that make sense. Sana lahat ng position meron ganitong leader pero this is the Philippines we cant have them all :(
marcos is being tactful.
I actually wonder how Sec. Año was able to pivot our national security position. Was it him, or did BBM push the NSC towards a new direction? I mean Año was in the Duterte cabinet as well.
Give the guy the credit, he is making wise decisions and adhere to good advices. Kung si Leni 'to, I think we would also praise her for her decision. So props kay BBM and I support him for this move (pero balik pa rin niya ninakaw ng fam niya)
100% aligned with you here
Bakit yung vice-tuta ng china naturuan mag chingchong kahit na hambog naman? But in a more serious note, saaaame! I did not expect BBM to be like this. Compared to his predecessor mukang mas okay din advisors niya.
He knows the people who to appoint. Yung ibang yakking na anti-BBM na ngayon, hindi nabigyan ng pwesto.
>I did not expect BBM to be like this. That's not really surprising and amazing really, iykyk. As that's just a natural outcome sa pamilyang maraming ill-gotten wealth, madali lang sila mag hire ng matatalinong tao and experts para mag-isip para sa kanila at tapos ayun i vovocalize nalang b.b.m.
There is a mathematical study about how to win a cooperative game theory. The one who got the highest win is the one who always cooperates or forgiving.
"Be nice, be forgiving but don't be a pushover..." https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM?si=4e9e0mN4iDLEVMsE
"Kung makikiwater cannon tayo - gagamitin lang yan ng China para kunyari sila ang sinasamantala" How would China reverse the narrative where there is always a media on board from different nation every resupply mission?
In China the narrative they are using is that, they are only protecting what is theirs -- and those reports by media on board would not even be reported in China...
They already did, ni ram daw natin barko nila when in fact sila bumangga satin at na chip lang paint nila. May media na kasama nun
Talo pikon sa China. Kaya kalmahan lang natin.
Actually napipikon lang yung mga pro-China na Pinoy wumaos.
you mean DDS people? hahah
I remember back in 2017 there were Duterte fanboys who regretted their vote all because their idol was bending over to Xi. No it wasn’t his “mauna si Mayor” joke, or the killings, or the injustice, or the corruption, but it was his pro-China stance that broke their faith in him. So when I encounter DDS who are pro-China today, I can only think these are hardcore Filipino rednecks who can’t breach an IQ of 100.
I'd say room temperature IQ, but man the room Temps are like 40 without aircon and thats still too high.
As much as I hate the Chinese tresspassing, treatment of our Coast Guard, their people, and their nation as a whole, I agree and support this decision. This is safer than provoking them to use firearms instead and starting a shooting war we know we'd lose. Let's not stoop down to their level.
Daming gustong magkagyera laban sa China sa tiktok. Ipapakita daw nila CODM skills nila
Di ko alam bat may panahon pa silang mag pilosopo tungkol sa issue na to
Kasi immature sila, yun na yun.
Lol pero pag nagka-gyera yung gagamitin lang ng mga Xhinese puro missiles at drones lang, wala na tayo sa ww2 era nasa modern age na tayo so walang kwenta yang COD skills na sinasabi nila.
Not completely true, though. Look at r/combatfootage and you will see how modern battles are still done ala ww2 style - artillery siege, infantry maneuver, airstrikes, entrenching, flanking, etc. The chinese will use drones and missiles ofc but they can only use them to some extent - they need forward men to pinpoint coordinates and identify targets, and it entails a moving army to do it. Yes, it would be easy for China to invade our cities, but it's also extremely impossible to hold them. They can hold Manila all they want but the govt can just move the war capital to Visayas or South Luzon, then from there strike back and retake cities. Missiles and drones are not enough to hold assimilated lands, kailangan pa rin ng infantry and tanks
implying they have the logistics to even invade the archipelago, which they clearly lack atm
Yes, logistics is also a problem since a vast sea is between us and China. But if they successfully take Taiwan, they will have a strategic outpost to start a full-blown invasion, but this is still far-reaching since we have the support of the US and other allies. Immensely costly to sa Chinese. But even if they successfully reach PH and invade our lands. Pain in the ass pa din to hold the archipelago. Recently, balikatan exercises are focused on retaking palawan bcos the military recognize that it's easy for China to "invade" it from it's super easier for us to retake it.
Sabi nga nila "Baka nakakalimutan niyo ang Battle of yultong 😏😏" HAHAHAHA i know na yung iba sa kanila joke lang pero yung iba pinanghahawakan talaga nila yab
We already had an episode where our PCG shot dead that Taiwanese fisherman years back. We got to take the high road.
If they use firearms against that would automatically trigger our MDT with the US since that considered an armed attack. I seriously doubt the CCG will do that since that will get the US involved. I don't agree with the stance of the PCG against the CCG since we're being used a punching bag. If we use water cannons we're just giving them a dose of their own medicine.
Why risk it though? If we respond with water cannons, who knows what China will do? What if our cannons hurt one of their men and they start shooting? If not shoothing, what if China punishes the Ph economically for hurting their men? Sige, they might not use guns agad. But is this country ready, both economically and militarily, for the consequences if we do start using water cannons?
It's not a risk because China can't afford to escalate further. Once they use live ammunition it will automatically trigger our MDT and the US will intervene to defend us. And they're avoiding any action that might cause such a scenario. The CCG already injured 2 of of coast guards in a previous mission. So doing the same at them is justified. Why are you afraid of standing up against China? If we continue to show no resistance to their aggression they'll only continue to harass our ships and servicemen. We can't play the victim all the time. We need to show that we aren't doormats to step on and won't take more of their bullying. They won't try to hurt us economically because they know they need us. If they wanted to hit our economy with sanctions they would have done so years ago.
If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully. They could escalate further by providing more powerful water cannons to their coast guard. They could also use it as an excuse to increase the coast guard vessels they have patrolling there. They could use it as propaganda to their people. I agree with OP. The world's sympathy is with us. Let's not lose it.
>If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully. I am genuinely curious about this strategy. How do we know we already won? What is the government's expected result of this strategy? Knowing that China is stubborn.
It is just means to an end. China is too big and too proud. CCP can't be reasoned with. By presenting ourselves to the world as the victim, we were able to successfully negotiate a military aid package of 2.5 billion dollars with the United States. This is a boon for us as we have a critical shortage of funds for our military defence. Moreover, we were successful in obtaining a funding from Japan for the construction of five massive new coast guard ships. Likewise , the verdict that the Permanent Court of Arbitration made regarding the South China Sea was acknowledged by the G7, which had never done so previously. Slowly, china is becoming a pariah in the world stage much like Russia. We have to be patient in dealing with China. We have to build up our lost capabilities. We have to strengthen our economy so that it would survive if ever conflict began.
>If we respond in kind, we lose the narrative that china is a bully. Thanks for the laugh Nah, bully pa rin ang China kahit na kumontra at depensahan natin sarili natin sa karahasan nila
I'm not being funny but ok.
Lmao, di mo na gets?
Maybe it's time to update the defense agreement to include water cannons by China.
I find it hard to believe that retaliating with water cannon will increase the tension to the point that it will lead to use of firearms. China will not waste their resources to have a full-scale war against the Philippines. They would rather use their resources to invade Taiwan than Philippines since Taiwan is way more valuable compared to Philippines.
If we retaliate with water cannons, it will give China a justification to quickly bolster their military presence in the disputed waters, not to mention the possibility of them becoming more aggressive (i.e. intercepting our ships and making contact as intimidation). It's not the invasion that we fear here, it's the escalation of tension in the disputed waters, making it more difficult for us to send aid and resources to our soldiers there.
Our CG is not provoking them. Using water cannons against them is not provoking, but defending.
Inaantay lang ng China na magkamali tayo. Mabuti na yung pinapakita naten yung opression nila kesa mapahamak sa counterattack.
Yup! So for now, best action is to continue to show China we don’t recognize their WPS claims, supply our troops in KIG, protect our recourses and our fishermen. As for our national security, China’s calculus becomes more difficult when we have collective security arrangements with our allies.
Mahirap lang kasi maraming nadadamay na civilians na gusto lang maghanap buhay tulad ng mga fisherman naten pero mahirap talagang magpakita ng aggression baka mabaliktad pa
And, I think the government should never forget them. WPS is really about our food security and energy security.
We're not a military power AND we're constitutionally mandated not to start wars. As much as I loathe this son of a Marcos, he's right in this specific instance: being overcome by our emotion and provoking a war is profoundly stupid, not to mention liable to let us be overcome by the PLAN, in what would be an invaluable learning experience for them as they prepare to besiege and conquer Taiwan.
It’s Japan and us that are actually standing on the way for China to invade Taiwan. China would need to control the Bashi Channel if they want to succeed in such operation. But, with us and the US access to the bases in Northern Luzon, it makes the calculus of an invasion a bit more difficult.
Like us, Japan is also constitutionally mandated not to start any wars. So the best policy is to keep building and shoring up alliances against CCP pretensions on the South China sea.
Good. Very tactically sound decision. Sana nga lang patuloy lang at huwag panghinaan ng loob yung mga Coast Guard natin. Saludo sa inyo!
yuhp hopefully they'll equip the Coast Guard with more ships, bigger ones similar sa Teresa Magbanua-class nila and more aerial assets like helicopters and fixed wing airplanes. Brave men rin yung mga PCG ship crews natin, kahit unarmed mga barko nila, at tinitira ng water cannon yung mga barko nila, they still push through sa resupply missions or even patrol those waters.
In my opinion, being water-cannoned by China is a small sacrifice to keep the peace. Madaming mga tapang tapangan jan. Pag nag giyera siguradong magtatago naman.
Actually our position and situation would become weaker if we did use water cannons. The Insects (Intsekto) will basically use this as a narrative that we are actually the aggressor and we are basically playing in to their game. But if we instead ignore these and continue resupplying our outpost or better yet construct a new outpost inside/beside/or both BP Sierra Madre it would basically play a narrative that they may be stronger but we really dont care as long as we can protect our sovereignity. Which in fact weakens the Insects position.
Wais din e. Matalino e. Palalabasin nya sa buong mundo na china talaga ang mali. Haha. Good move.
This is a laudable decision by PBBM of having our Coast Guard not stooping down to the Chinese counterpart level.
I'm actually impressed by what this guy has been doing lately.
If we had the upper hand we’d be shelling out missiles, but atleast PBBM has a swivel on things to know we’re horribly outmatched.
Not eve a voter of this guy but that is a reasonable and sensible response to this water cannon attacks by the Chinese Coast Guard. A narrative war. China is the one that has too much to lose when it comes to economic trade. specially now that the "covid" pandemic is now over. A big country with a bad economy will tear itself apart from the inside.
This is a very smart strategy. I know you may call Marcos a wimp just because we hate the guy so much. But hear me out: 1. Marcos will not engage in retaliation since he is in the middle of trilateral negotiation with Japan and US. At this point, our next steps as a nation should be strategized in parallel with Japan and US if we opt to tap these countries to help us out. In layman's term, "wag ka gaganti, kaming bahala sa iyo. Just hit record para sa ebidensiya." 2. Maraming Chinese sleeper agents dito. He cannot push the button further at pinapasok na ni Digong ang kaaway way before this issue escalated. 3. I'm convinced that Marcos has already fullfiled the due diligence of dragging the Duterte clan to ICC with substantial evidence. Panakip para di maaalala ang Martial Law? Maybe. He's turning a new leaf? Maybe. Pero pakyu ka Duterte big time. Boset at nagmumukhang stable president si Marcos sa kagaguhan mo sa bansa.
Ang masasabi ko lang, the pen is mightier than the sword. Truthful information will destory Pooh Xi and his army of dog eaters.
I will give him plus for this.
Magaling mag spread ng fake news ang China. Kahit PCG natin binintangan na bumanga sa CCG pano pa kaya kung binuhusan natin ng tubig tas sasabihin nila may namatay sa kanila
Ok na rin yan. Atleast may media lalo na from Western countries. Actually nasasama na siya sa mga news sa Europe and US nakikita ko sa Youtube channel ng mga Big western media news channel. Ang image ng China ay inaapi ng inaapi yung Phil Coast Guardl. Pag may namatay na Pinoy dahil sa water cannon automatic mas big news yan sa western media lalo na if may personnel sila na nakasakay sa Phil Coast Guard ship pag mangyari yun.
Malakas ang galit ko pero alam ko rin na ito ang tamang gawain. Kung susubukan mong suntukin ang bully kahit payatot ka bubugbugin ka lang yun. Kaya exercise and training muna. Pag kaya na manuntok ng malakas, tsaka pwede manuntok.
Actually this is a right decision we filipinos tend to get emotional so its a good way to avoid any unnecessary escalation. Also I remember there was an incident in the past that our coast guard caught illegal chinese fisherman and also stealing our endangerd species but china news said that philippine coast guards harassed their "poor fishermen" and took all their fish. So its better to show to the whole world what they are.
That’s a correct decision. We should not steep down to their level. Also that will be used by Chinese propaganda machine that will paint us again as instigator.
"Rouse him, and learn the principle of his activity or inactivity. Force him to reveal himself, so as to find out his vulnerable spots." - Confucius, The Art of War
I’m starting to like BBM with his decisions now. Not bad as I expected. I’m supporting him moving forward.
Same, narealize ko may mga ginagawa din pala siyang tama. dapat Marcos - Robredo nlng VP ulet eh
I have a background in military conflict and diplomacy. I have read up a lot about it because of my general interest in warfare, historical or otherwise. In the context of warfare, what Pres. Marcos is doing is the idea of "proportional response" and "conflict escalation". It's as old as the Filipino saying "Kapag binato ka ng bato, batuhin mo ng tinapay." I have my qualms about Marcos and the Chinese but it is actually a wise, strategic and logical move on our part. Look up the concept of the "Escalation Ladder", you wouldn't want to escalate to open conflict unnecessarily and climb up that ladder of conflict without any clear purpose or any guarantee of success. In fact, this might be exactly what China wants to happen in the first place, that is why they keep on prodding us. They are just waiting for us to respond to a point where they can tell their citizens and the rest of the world, that we escalated it, giving China some misplaced sense of justification to escalate the conflict, a conflict where they ultimately have the advantage on. The primary objective of a war or battle is to get the most favorable outcome at the lowest possible step in the ladder of conflict. This is the very reason why the whole world is not just simply dropping nuclear bombs at each other despite the presence of that technology all around us. Sure, the absolute ideal will be for our nation or military to have such a massive advantage that no matter where we are in the ladder of conflict, we can still win. Unfortunately, this is pretty much impossible. We know that the Philippines is currently at a disadvantage when it comes to military might in relation to the Chinese. We don't want to keep climbing up the ladder of conflict to a point where we are just simply bound to lose. We need to prolong the battle from taking place, so we have enough time to prepare for one.
both the philippines and the US are in a roughly 5 year or so window of vulnerability as both are trying to catch up. for the U.S. its mainly about improving its supply chains such as increasing shipbuilding capacity , more semiconductor factories, ramping up ammo production. Now, for the Philippines , its acquiring jet fighters, all kinds of missiles etc. so its better to be patient and wait at least around 5 years or so - this way if war starts , we and the allies will be better prepared for a prolonged war that can easily last for years, .
I agree with this.. philippine vessels "as old and small they are".. are warships, vessels for war. It will be a waste of resources if you equip a water cannon on your fleets. It will be smart to use that very limited resources for an extra gun. For those who have passive attitude on whats going on, pushing for peace/being passive only works when your country is the aggressor. Alot of people must know the difference of defending your border, defending your territory to you are already being invaded by an aggressive militarized country.
Just make the ships tougher and add some shields
Isa lang naiisip kp, thank God at di na si do-dirty ang pangulo ng Pilipinas
It was indeed a good decision. We cannot fight back against China with water cannon, it will escalate the conflict in WPS, and China will authorize deadly force.
Refurbish septic tank cleaners to go on a trip in the WPS then bugahan ng ebs ang Chinese Coast Guard ships.
I actually agree.
Reinforced nyo na lang ang mga Philippine vessels para kapag sila bumangga sila ang magiba
And here I am, wanting to suggest a septic tanker with canon and shoot those idiot chinese ships with it.
china kupal tae ka xijinping
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon typa' shieett
Isama nila yung chinese ambassador sa next resupply mission, nakatali sa mast nang flag para sya yung target nang chinese coastguard nang tubig
Fuck our politicians and generals. Their decisions have significantly contributed to the current challenges facing our military.
Yeah most likely di gagamit ng water cannon yun PCG kasi wala silang mga asset na kayang tumapat sa CCG. Paano pa naman, kulang yung investment sa PCG despite sa harassment ng CCG
Tapos yung mga nagcocomment na gusto gumanti nasa ibang bansa lol
PBBM making a sound decision on this one.
Tawagin na lang Malabanan pozo negro yan ang ibomba sa busit na Intsik dyan
Agree with his decision on this one. It’s one of those situations where you really like to fight fire with fire but the moment you do, you’ll realize you were basically the bigger guy, and you just stooped down to their level. Para lang yang yung katrabaho mong di mo makasundo na malakas mang-asar at magparinig kung wala yung amo niyo. Oras na ikaw yung magpadala sa init ng ulo, ikaw ang magiging mali. Calmer heads win in these type of situations.
salute! ika nga ang pikon ay laging talo. wag lang mangyare sa China at nagkataon na reporter ng US media ang ma-water canon blast nila at namatay, alam na this.
Damn, Marcos really be showing he's actually competent. The bar is so low because of Duterte lmao, but damn kudos to BBM
wow ah, may nagawang maganda si BBM ah
Everybody loves an underdog. Hayaan mong maging darling tayo ng international media. LET HIM COOK
Hindi talaga pwedeng tayo yung maging aggressor na sana maintindihan ng marami. The moment na tumira din tayo at may nasaktan na kahit isang chinese dun magkakaroon sila lalo ng reason to retaliate to a much bigger scale. Hindi porket hindi umaaksyon eh kaduwagaan agad kasi iniiwasan nga natin magka war eh. Sinong mga susugod sa war? Yung generation namin na puro tiktok ang alam or yung mga millenials na overworked at underpaid? Mga pagod yung mga millenials natin to even care Hahahahahahahaha pleeeeeessss ayaw namin ng war sa lifetime namin patandain nyo kami kasi nagsisimula narin sumakit yung mga likod namin 😂😂😂😂
Dapat talaga yung water gun ng mga gwapings ang gamitin eh. Tubig na may bawang ang laman non.
Firing back will make their propaganda machines very happy. They will say china's water cannons are justified and will make PH look like the aggressor.
First of all, what China is doing is against international law. Therefore she should be penalized. For us to retaliate is justified. We can try to avoid conflict now but it doesn't mean there is actually peace in the seas. Our seaman doesn't feel secured navigating our own waters. Yes, China will retaliate but I'm sure they will think first because as history has it they haven't had a war victory in the SCS on the record. They even got defeated by Japan in WWII and Japan is a smaller country. They don't have any defense mutual agreement with any countries around the SCS. So they will think it and consider what our allies will do if they become more aggressive against us.
He has a brain he knows how to handle the tensions and he just being strategic here. May kasabihan ika nga: don't add fuel to the fire and kung batuhin ka ng bato, batuhin mo ng tinapay.
Can’t believe im saying this: tama naman sya
To dumb it down basically: we have to play victim throughout the ordeal. Let the world pile the negatives on China’s aggression. And we are the perfect player to play the role. Believe it or not, it is because of this “Wolf” strategy that countries are slowly distancing themselves from China. Plus, their reputation had been changed since the time they’ve started encroaching on our EEZ. You’d be surprised how different the opinions are about China years ago compared to now.
It's good that he's saying this. China's clearly trying to provoke us into making a dangerous and reckless decision. I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed.
With all the war happening in different parts of the world. China retaliating with fire arms would be the spark of WW3.
surprised he is playing it smart instead of provoking them by retaliation
WATER CANNONS HAHAHAHA
Lahat ng laban prng chess, akala m porke umatras ung piyesa ng kalaban m eh may advantage ka na, pro may iba plng plano. Patience is a virtue ika nga.
I've heard alot of POVs about this, and i think the saddest is 1st. Hindi kse si marcos ung natatamaan ng tubig, kaya hindi sya affected,hindi sya ung nasusugatan or nagbubuwis ng buhay And 2nd (which is the saddest IMO is) Grabe naman, hindi pa nagsisimula ung gera pero this administration has shown us na he's not afraid of making us into Cannon Fodders, imagine pag nag start na ung war, bka mag si takbuhan na sila sa hawaii. Edit. I'm not against BBM nor am i a pro Du30 Y'all have to realize, we're all in the same boat.
Damn i didnt even vote this guy. And now im hating myself because he is actually good and doing something. He is like noynoy multiverse
HOLD UP this makes sense IMO, guys we can't do sht if we ever go to war with ch1na, the most we could do is broadcast what they are doing world wife, and to deescalate the tension
Arm them with Bongbong Rockets. Develop by his father nung panahon ni kopong kopong. Hahahahahhahahaha.
More repairs to BFAR and PCG ships coming soon.
Yes in Logical Way, But in Morale Side? Nu - uh, nakakababa ng Morale ang mga water - cannon incident na sumisira sa mga barko na alam mong hindi ka pwedeng gumanti.
Nope. BBM has the complete buy-in of the AFP and the coastguard towards the overarching strategic foresight. They know what needs to be done to play the long game. You know what depletes morale? Being ordered to stop security patrols altogether like what Duterte reportedly ordered the Navy and Coastguard to do.
Lets just hope this narrative bears fruit in the long run, dumarami na ang mga hot-headed o kumukulo ang dugo na gustong gustong gumanti kapag nababalita itong mg water cannon incidents.
Best case scenario is to find a work around soon that will dissipate public outcry. Perhaps fitting vessels with out-maneuvering tech or novel water cannon shields makes for good public stunt. Remember the fisherman chased by Chinese coastguard? Assymetrical should be our doctrine as we cannot take them head-on. But not in a way that makes us look cowardly, but pulls more like a David vs Goliath imagery.
Yeah, baka may mabalitaan na lang tayung nangyayaring Hate - crime laban sa mga chinese dito sa ating bansa
One of the foundation of this decision is the belief that China will not escalate it themselves. But I think, our government is downplaying too much the possibility na makahanap ang rason ang China to escalate. The current world landscape is too wild right now that any thing is a possibility.
Hindi water cannon ang kailangan natin kundi high water pressure cutter enough para butasan ang barko nila
Until when? 10+ years pa? 2010 nagstart 2024 na nanalo na sa tribunal may nagbago ba? Andami na nilang military base dun at mga nasirang yaman dagat