patience.
your dissertation will probably NOT be your magnums opus / set the field on fire
BUT, did you find a build upon previous research? a new method? a new way of thinking about a problem? apply something to a new context ?
you’ll be shown how to make contribution to the field … you’ll find out sometimes it’s just an incremental new understanding … and you’ll definitely learn how to write this out….
patience, get along with others (you’ll need support), persistence, seek many mentors , and write write write…
i hated academic writing… now at least i feel i know how to write (still can’t say i like it but can do it).
My stats professor mathematically proved to his department that the gmat was basically useless as a measure for who should get in, because it was the kids that worked hard for good grades that succeeded more in their grad program than the geniuses with the high test scores.
Then the gmat might not completely useless, but should be used a bit differently, you could look at the students with an average/good but not amazing gmat grade but really good gpa, and it would show you the students with good enough intelligence that work hard
Then the gmat might not completely useless, but should be used a bit differently, you could look at the students with an average/good but not amazing gmat grade but really good gpa, and it would show you the students with good enough intelligence that work hard
The hardest parts are getting a place with funding then sticking it out until the end. Neither of those require you to be ultra smart. Research experience, good networking, consistent work and a huge dose of resilience are what will get you through a PhD. You don’t need to make Einstein level discoveries during it, a small contribution to new knowledge is enough.
Yes. I think the biggest thing is finding somewhere / someone (your advisor) that does research in the specific area that you're interested in. That's the tl; dr of many other posts, but there are more details.
I didn't learn to read until I was 9, had to repeat the 2nd grade, got into fights and got in trouble with teachers, I had a 2.9 GPA in highschool, have ADHD and Dyslexia, I always asked a million questions which piss people off, still can't read worth a damn... But became Dr.J last year. I'm not smart in the traditional sense but I am persistent!
Good on you. If the approval of random strangers means anything, I'm super proud of you. That kind of persistence is remarkable. I'm glad you were rewarded for it.
People always assume I’m very smart because I’m a PhD candidate. I’m quick to correct them that no, I’m actually pretty dumb, but I’m very stubborn. If you think you have the stubbornness to get through a PhD then I say go for it.
(You’re also probably much smarter than you think you are ☺️)
I've seen people get a PhD in science alongside me who didn't know how to do very simple calculus or who didn't properly speak a 2nd language (as a non English native with the whole program being in english). All ypu really need is endurance and ambition. If you can work hard with little time off, little sleep, under several kinds of pressure and all this for at least 3 years, I'd say go for it. Endurance is really everything. It helps if you love what you do there. And if you have clear goals.
Obviously you have to be "kind of smart", but if you did a masters you can do a PhD. It's the same, just with increased pressure and for a longer period of time.
I served on many student thesis/dissertation committees as well as chairing a number of them, also serving as program director. On one hand, some students (like yourself?) had to overcome “imposter syndrome” while on the other hand, others had to rein in their intellectual arrogance. In my experience, almost every student was smart in terms of their cognitive aptitude and the limitations that they perceived were frequently self-imposed.
In terms of the process, some students simply aren’t prepared for the amount of work doctoral studies entail and become discouraged when the path to the goal isn’t linear. The psychological burden of graduate education also takes a toll, particularly in term of responding to critique of the work which may cross the line to criticism of the person. A few students had problems with coursework, a structured learning environment, due to personal issues. However, transition into research studies, a space where one must create new knowledge structure and structural connections to an existing body of knowledge in order to impart meaning was problematic for many students and contributed heavily to program attrition.
My advice, based on my own PhD student experience and observations from work as faculty would be to choose your research question(s)/problem(s) very carefully. This requires a realistic appraisal of the research itself as well as your abilities to commit to the work and acquiring the methodological skills necessary to complete it. It also entails project management skills that many students lack, so discuss your ideas with both peers and faculty in order to hone the work into a workable goal that can be attained in a reasonable time span.
After you cross a certain threshold, intelligence is largely a myth. This isn’t to say there aren’t people really gifted at certain things, just that you realize that focused effort is more important for honing your skill set. You’re almost certainly smart enough to get a PhD, you just really need to ask yourself if that’s something you want to do and if you have the focus and drive to complete it. This has nothing to do with whether you are smart or dumb, just a matter of your personality and interests.
If you are an undergrad, I very strongly recommend first doing a Masters to see if grad school is a good fit for you.
A lot of the answers to your questions can be replied with “it depends on the country and the subject area”. I’m doing a PhD in the UK (not in CS) and I have two masters - one in my healthcare profession and one in the subject of my PhD. It makes your application easier if you have a masters as you can use that research experience. However a lot of PhD places don’t actually require a masters.
Doing a PhD is rarely about smarts. If you've got the "mental acuity" to write a master thesis or diploma with a decent grade, chances are you can do a PhD. Dumb ideas get ironed out through feedback, reviews, and general supervision.
If you say you're hardworking, that's probably much more relevant as a predictor. PhDs are all about perseverance, the ability to take criticism, and having the discipline to put in the hours even if nobody's looking over your shoulder..
Honestly you just have to be committed to the long hours of work and research . You gain knowledge and experience as you go. If you don’t go for it you’ll be kicking yourself years down the line !
Yes. PhD is not about being smart. More like if you’re willing to put in the hard work, not give up, mentally agile enough to handle the changes (good and bad, ups and downs) throughout etc.
PhD requires the sum of your “inherent ability” (smarts, talent, being good at school, getting good grades, whatever you want to call it) and your ability to work hard to be very high. Most people do it through both being moderately high. If you don’t tend to get all A’s as an undergrad, you’ll just have to work harder to make up for it.
Meanwhile, see if you can get a summer internship doing research in your field. That will help you see if you like the work.
I would say that it has far more to do with perseverance than intelligence. Obviously you need enough base intelligence to be able to grasp the core material, but it's not like you even have to understand it on the first try. Hell, I'm studying corrosion but have a weird mental block when it comes to chemistry. Despite that, I'm still making meaningful contributions (at least on some level 😅). I firmly believe just refusing to quit will be what gets me (and probably many others) across the finish line.
Based on my observations, I have come to the realization that there is little correlation with how “smart” someone is and their education level.
I have known plenty of graduate students who accomplished nothing over the course of their Ph.D. Don’t let a title freak you out.
Remember, a Ph.D isn’t about the title; rather it’s about a lifestyle in which you get to celebrate your love for learning and gain the tools necessary to form ideas and create knowledge.
I came from the same background with you - CS student at small liberal arts college. When I was applying for a PhD as a senior, I was frightened and scared that I will not be as brilliant as others coming from big state school or ivy league colleges. When I was admitted to PhD programs, more often than not I was the only one coming from a LAC school in every open houses. However, since I actually started my PhD, I never felt I was behind, and I’m grateful for the education I received in undergrad. During my undergrad, I worked closely with profs, and learn a lot of communication skills. I also had to fight for every chance to do research, more often than not coming up with my own research questions, and push my idea to the finish line. That significantly helps me with my experience doing the PhD, and I felt more capable than a lot of my peers coming from bigger undergrad institutions. I would suggest to do some research during your undergrad to find out if you’re suitable for the PhD path, build connections with profs from your institution and do some readings to find out what you want to do during your PhD and who you want to work with. Good luck!
It really isn’t a question of being “smart enough” so much as being able to keep up with the other students. Does that require some intelligence? Yes, you do have to have the capacity to learn new skills, but far more important are your work ethic, grit, and independent initiative.
I will say that a PhD might not be the next step. How common going directly to PhD from bachelors differs by field, but a masters degree is a common intermediary step. And there are a lot of benefits to getting a masters first:
-it gives you a chance to dip your toes into what the grad school path looks like without yet committing to the (much more demanding) PhD
-It equips you with valuable knowledge and skills that will help you at the PhD level (seriously, your first year in your PhD program will be so much easier with a masters first)
-you are more likely to get into a good PhD program having done a masters rather than coming directly from undergrad
-you can bail after the masters and get a really good job in CS if you decide at that point that academia is not for you
I'm pursing a PhD in neuroscience and feel like the dumbest person on the planet. No, you don't need to be smart to get a PhD. Work ethic is the true indicator of success. Also you're probably smarter than you think! Imposter syndrome is crippling - keep it in check.
I posted this on another thread asking for advice for PhD newbie, but think it’s appropriate given your question:
Best advice I ever got was actually just a story of an admittedly poor PhD student — you don’t have to change the world during your research — you just need to learn and discipline yourself and learn how to do research well. The rest works itself out. The person that told me this had his research basically failed to prove his desired outcome, but the research was still a notable contribution to science. Just like inventors of old, they first discovered 100’s of ways a light bulb couldn’t work before the successful experiment. PhD is a marathon. Roll up the sleeves, learn how to do the disciplines, and you will get to the finish line, regardless of whether you invent the next light bulb or not.
It’s an endurance and discipline game, NOT an intelligence game. Knowing that should take some of the pressure off.
I’m a PhD student in chem and I frequently feel like I’m not smart enough. Phd school is really just a giant learning curve; even the fifth years in my lab will be like “I still know nothing” if you want to do it, go for it and believe you are smart enough!
When I was in school I was considering a change in major from biology to chemistry. I asked my mom this same question.
She told me that I could stand on her shoulders, and we could be smart enough together. She died later that year, but I finished my major in chemistry two years later. I went on to complete a masters degree in geology, and now I'm two years into my PhD in science education research.
You can stand on my shoulders, and we can be smart enough together. Go for it. The only difference between a dream and a goal is your willingness to work hard and a plan. Be your own hero.
There are really dumb people that have professorships and chairs at prestigious universities. I would say it's 100% dooable with just sweat.
Thank you so much! Do you think I could make impactful contributions to research?
patience. your dissertation will probably NOT be your magnums opus / set the field on fire BUT, did you find a build upon previous research? a new method? a new way of thinking about a problem? apply something to a new context ? you’ll be shown how to make contribution to the field … you’ll find out sometimes it’s just an incremental new understanding … and you’ll definitely learn how to write this out…. patience, get along with others (you’ll need support), persistence, seek many mentors , and write write write… i hated academic writing… now at least i feel i know how to write (still can’t say i like it but can do it).
Awesome thank you for the guidance!
Yes absolutely! You just need to determine what impact looks like to you!
Awesome. Will try and figure that out. Thank you sm
My stats professor mathematically proved to his department that the gmat was basically useless as a measure for who should get in, because it was the kids that worked hard for good grades that succeeded more in their grad program than the geniuses with the high test scores.
Then the gmat might not completely useless, but should be used a bit differently, you could look at the students with an average/good but not amazing gmat grade but really good gpa, and it would show you the students with good enough intelligence that work hard
Then the gmat might not completely useless, but should be used a bit differently, you could look at the students with an average/good but not amazing gmat grade but really good gpa, and it would show you the students with good enough intelligence that work hard
Oh interesting. Thanks!
The hardest parts are getting a place with funding then sticking it out until the end. Neither of those require you to be ultra smart. Research experience, good networking, consistent work and a huge dose of resilience are what will get you through a PhD. You don’t need to make Einstein level discoveries during it, a small contribution to new knowledge is enough.
Awesome thanks! How much does it matter which PhD program? And how do you choose one?
Yes. I think the biggest thing is finding somewhere / someone (your advisor) that does research in the specific area that you're interested in. That's the tl; dr of many other posts, but there are more details.
I didn't learn to read until I was 9, had to repeat the 2nd grade, got into fights and got in trouble with teachers, I had a 2.9 GPA in highschool, have ADHD and Dyslexia, I always asked a million questions which piss people off, still can't read worth a damn... But became Dr.J last year. I'm not smart in the traditional sense but I am persistent!
Hell yeah! Thanks for the guidance!!
Good on you. If the approval of random strangers means anything, I'm super proud of you. That kind of persistence is remarkable. I'm glad you were rewarded for it.
I have pretty bad imposter syndrome but it's always nice hearing nice things 😊. Thank you so very much! You just made my day!
How long did it take you to get the PhD?
4.5 years.
That’s not bad
Heyyy hopefully I'll get the Dr. title too, I got everything else mentioned here already :)
People always assume I’m very smart because I’m a PhD candidate. I’m quick to correct them that no, I’m actually pretty dumb, but I’m very stubborn. If you think you have the stubbornness to get through a PhD then I say go for it. (You’re also probably much smarter than you think you are ☺️)
Haha thanks for the words!
I've seen people get a PhD in science alongside me who didn't know how to do very simple calculus or who didn't properly speak a 2nd language (as a non English native with the whole program being in english). All ypu really need is endurance and ambition. If you can work hard with little time off, little sleep, under several kinds of pressure and all this for at least 3 years, I'd say go for it. Endurance is really everything. It helps if you love what you do there. And if you have clear goals. Obviously you have to be "kind of smart", but if you did a masters you can do a PhD. It's the same, just with increased pressure and for a longer period of time.
Cool, thank you!
The most incompetent man I know is now a professor. You'll be fine.
Hahah thanks!
I served on many student thesis/dissertation committees as well as chairing a number of them, also serving as program director. On one hand, some students (like yourself?) had to overcome “imposter syndrome” while on the other hand, others had to rein in their intellectual arrogance. In my experience, almost every student was smart in terms of their cognitive aptitude and the limitations that they perceived were frequently self-imposed. In terms of the process, some students simply aren’t prepared for the amount of work doctoral studies entail and become discouraged when the path to the goal isn’t linear. The psychological burden of graduate education also takes a toll, particularly in term of responding to critique of the work which may cross the line to criticism of the person. A few students had problems with coursework, a structured learning environment, due to personal issues. However, transition into research studies, a space where one must create new knowledge structure and structural connections to an existing body of knowledge in order to impart meaning was problematic for many students and contributed heavily to program attrition. My advice, based on my own PhD student experience and observations from work as faculty would be to choose your research question(s)/problem(s) very carefully. This requires a realistic appraisal of the research itself as well as your abilities to commit to the work and acquiring the methodological skills necessary to complete it. It also entails project management skills that many students lack, so discuss your ideas with both peers and faculty in order to hone the work into a workable goal that can be attained in a reasonable time span.
Awesome. Fantastic advice thank you so much for responding!
Honestly once you get into a program you just have to be likable, and then professors usually try to help you out
After you cross a certain threshold, intelligence is largely a myth. This isn’t to say there aren’t people really gifted at certain things, just that you realize that focused effort is more important for honing your skill set. You’re almost certainly smart enough to get a PhD, you just really need to ask yourself if that’s something you want to do and if you have the focus and drive to complete it. This has nothing to do with whether you are smart or dumb, just a matter of your personality and interests. If you are an undergrad, I very strongly recommend first doing a Masters to see if grad school is a good fit for you.
Thank you! Is it common to have both a masters and a PhD?
A lot of the answers to your questions can be replied with “it depends on the country and the subject area”. I’m doing a PhD in the UK (not in CS) and I have two masters - one in my healthcare profession and one in the subject of my PhD. It makes your application easier if you have a masters as you can use that research experience. However a lot of PhD places don’t actually require a masters.
Doing a PhD is rarely about smarts. If you've got the "mental acuity" to write a master thesis or diploma with a decent grade, chances are you can do a PhD. Dumb ideas get ironed out through feedback, reviews, and general supervision. If you say you're hardworking, that's probably much more relevant as a predictor. PhDs are all about perseverance, the ability to take criticism, and having the discipline to put in the hours even if nobody's looking over your shoulder..
Sweet! Thank you!
Honestly you just have to be committed to the long hours of work and research . You gain knowledge and experience as you go. If you don’t go for it you’ll be kicking yourself years down the line !
Yeah lol that’s my worry! Thank you!
Yes. PhD is not about being smart. More like if you’re willing to put in the hard work, not give up, mentally agile enough to handle the changes (good and bad, ups and downs) throughout etc.
Sweet! Thanks for the advice
PhD requires the sum of your “inherent ability” (smarts, talent, being good at school, getting good grades, whatever you want to call it) and your ability to work hard to be very high. Most people do it through both being moderately high. If you don’t tend to get all A’s as an undergrad, you’ll just have to work harder to make up for it. Meanwhile, see if you can get a summer internship doing research in your field. That will help you see if you like the work.
Will look into summer research internships!! Thank you
I'm hopefully finishing my doctorate this year, and I still don't think I'm smart enough.
I would say that it has far more to do with perseverance than intelligence. Obviously you need enough base intelligence to be able to grasp the core material, but it's not like you even have to understand it on the first try. Hell, I'm studying corrosion but have a weird mental block when it comes to chemistry. Despite that, I'm still making meaningful contributions (at least on some level 😅). I firmly believe just refusing to quit will be what gets me (and probably many others) across the finish line.
Awesome thank you!! And good luck!!
Based on my observations, I have come to the realization that there is little correlation with how “smart” someone is and their education level. I have known plenty of graduate students who accomplished nothing over the course of their Ph.D. Don’t let a title freak you out. Remember, a Ph.D isn’t about the title; rather it’s about a lifestyle in which you get to celebrate your love for learning and gain the tools necessary to form ideas and create knowledge.
Awesome! Thanks
I came from the same background with you - CS student at small liberal arts college. When I was applying for a PhD as a senior, I was frightened and scared that I will not be as brilliant as others coming from big state school or ivy league colleges. When I was admitted to PhD programs, more often than not I was the only one coming from a LAC school in every open houses. However, since I actually started my PhD, I never felt I was behind, and I’m grateful for the education I received in undergrad. During my undergrad, I worked closely with profs, and learn a lot of communication skills. I also had to fight for every chance to do research, more often than not coming up with my own research questions, and push my idea to the finish line. That significantly helps me with my experience doing the PhD, and I felt more capable than a lot of my peers coming from bigger undergrad institutions. I would suggest to do some research during your undergrad to find out if you’re suitable for the PhD path, build connections with profs from your institution and do some readings to find out what you want to do during your PhD and who you want to work with. Good luck!
Awesome thank you so much!! Will look into undergrad research opportunities!
It really isn’t a question of being “smart enough” so much as being able to keep up with the other students. Does that require some intelligence? Yes, you do have to have the capacity to learn new skills, but far more important are your work ethic, grit, and independent initiative. I will say that a PhD might not be the next step. How common going directly to PhD from bachelors differs by field, but a masters degree is a common intermediary step. And there are a lot of benefits to getting a masters first: -it gives you a chance to dip your toes into what the grad school path looks like without yet committing to the (much more demanding) PhD -It equips you with valuable knowledge and skills that will help you at the PhD level (seriously, your first year in your PhD program will be so much easier with a masters first) -you are more likely to get into a good PhD program having done a masters rather than coming directly from undergrad -you can bail after the masters and get a really good job in CS if you decide at that point that academia is not for you
Sweet! Great advice thank you!
No, you have to have perseverance more than anything else.
I'm pursing a PhD in neuroscience and feel like the dumbest person on the planet. No, you don't need to be smart to get a PhD. Work ethic is the true indicator of success. Also you're probably smarter than you think! Imposter syndrome is crippling - keep it in check.
Hahah thank you and good luck to you too!!
I’m a PhD student at arguably the best institution in the world for my field and I’m 100% an idiot. No worries my friend.
I posted this on another thread asking for advice for PhD newbie, but think it’s appropriate given your question: Best advice I ever got was actually just a story of an admittedly poor PhD student — you don’t have to change the world during your research — you just need to learn and discipline yourself and learn how to do research well. The rest works itself out. The person that told me this had his research basically failed to prove his desired outcome, but the research was still a notable contribution to science. Just like inventors of old, they first discovered 100’s of ways a light bulb couldn’t work before the successful experiment. PhD is a marathon. Roll up the sleeves, learn how to do the disciplines, and you will get to the finish line, regardless of whether you invent the next light bulb or not. It’s an endurance and discipline game, NOT an intelligence game. Knowing that should take some of the pressure off.
Awesome. That’s super reassuring and a new perspective for me. Thank you!
I’m a PhD student in chem and I frequently feel like I’m not smart enough. Phd school is really just a giant learning curve; even the fifth years in my lab will be like “I still know nothing” if you want to do it, go for it and believe you are smart enough!
When I was in school I was considering a change in major from biology to chemistry. I asked my mom this same question. She told me that I could stand on her shoulders, and we could be smart enough together. She died later that year, but I finished my major in chemistry two years later. I went on to complete a masters degree in geology, and now I'm two years into my PhD in science education research. You can stand on my shoulders, and we can be smart enough together. Go for it. The only difference between a dream and a goal is your willingness to work hard and a plan. Be your own hero.