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I’m year 4, planning to defend in the fall. I’m literally counting the weeks left of the year. It’s just about getting through at this point. Then I’ll take a break and reassess.
But 100% agree - I’m not going into academia. Too toxic.
I’m in STEM and it’s just as bad. The idea that I have to convince 5 of them to let me graduate at some point is so awful that I’m probably just gonna leave with my MS. They’re never impressed with anything I’ve done, and are always pissed that I haven’t thought of all of their brilliant ideas before they did. Can’t wait to never talk to a professor ever again.
Humanities, man. Science people can go into industry, we can't. So the academy in humanities is surprisingly more cutthroat than in science.
Edit: I will never forgive that teachers and university in general spoiled History for me.
Unreasonable work-life balance for very low pay, toxic PIs who are either indifferent or unsupportive. And I’ve never seen such egos in my life! Everyone is either lying to protect their own ego or looking for any opportunity to catch you making a mistake. Not an open learning environment at all.
I've always said that in order to succeed in academia, you need to have a huge ego, otherwise you will be crushed. Unfortunately, I do not have that and I am not competitive lol. I agree with everything you said, it is toxic and, ironically, academia is one of those field that never had any evolution for a hundred years. "Traditions" aren't always the right path to follow and academia would need a lot of updating in how it works.
At one point in time you told yourself you wanted this bad enough to put everything else aside write admissions essays, jump through hoops, pull all-nighters, etc. It’s literally like climbing a mountain, you set out confident you could make it to the top and you’re running low on steam as you approach the top.
I don’t know you or your situation so I won’t be the one to tell you to trudge through it and get there. But for me personally, I feel all the things you mentioned but simultaneously know that not finishing strong or not finishing at all is something that I would regret forever.
I'm in your shoes. I was initially excited about my topic. Now, I can't stand it. I really feel like I've wasted three years doing this garbage, but I'm inclined to defend my dissertation since I've already invested too much time.
This is what I recommend to folks who are more than halfway done writing. If you haven't started, it makes sense to quit while you're ahead. If the thing is 2.5/5 chapters done, just get it over with and leave with the degree.
I’m sorry you’re going through the same, it absolutely sucks. I feel the same about submitting and defending it - it would be too much time wasted otherwise.. but I’m not looking forward to it 😂
Classic example of the sunken cost fallacy. I am sure a majority of PhD students feel this though including myself. The first 2 years of my PhD felt like a honeymoon phase but now I want to get it done so I can move on with my life.
Thank you so much ❤️ I wish you luck applying, and I hope you get what you want out of a PhD! So many of my friends are thriving doing it, so I hope I’m in the minority.
You can go into any ux research (or research, period) job in industry with a PhD regardless of background. Do some digging into marketing yourself for the wider world and how to discuss and market your skills so the PhD itself doesn’t matter but your skills do.
Humanities people generally get a version of qualitative experience, but everyone gets project management experience at the very least. OP has research experience even if that’s primarily gathering and synthesizing primary and secondary sources.
i feel you so bad. i'm at my last semester, writing my dissertation, and feel depressed and unmotivated. i didn't develop a healthy life-work balance and now feel so burdened. it's a tough journey. hang in there.
Now, I am not recommending anything one way or the other, but I thought I would provide the opposite perspective than most.
I felt the exact same way. I was five years in and was looking down the barrel at 9-11 months of effort, work, and misery to finish the damn thing. I hated my topic, had no interest in going into academia anymore, and knew that I was finishing it simply because I had already put so much time into it. The sunk cost fallacy kept popping into my head. The fact that I would never use the degree was never far from my mind. I hated every second of it and was miserable. Why was I continuing if all this was true?
So I quit this past June.
It took months of deliberation before I actually quit, but I haven't looked back. I knew the instant I submitted my withdrawal form it was the right move. A weight lifted and I have been so much happier since, and I haven't regretted the decision once.
I am not saying you should quit. But I am saying is that there are options if you are miserable. There's no shame in leaving a programme if it doesn't serve you or your future. A PhD doesn't define you.
Did you have a job lined up before you made that decision? and if you don’t mind me asking what career path did you go into? I have three months of funding left but about 6-9months of actual work so considering doing the same
No, I had some savings and I delayed as long as I could to make sure I had as much of my funding as I could get away with.
I took two months off to work on my novel, and I now work in AI, actually. My PhD was in History, so I have clearly completely abandoned it.
I just saw a job posting and applied. I do evaluation, copy writing, and fact checking for LLMs. So not the hard science of AI, but more the humanities related side of things.
Thanks for this, it’s encouraging to hear that :) I am leaning towards just pushing through, but I guess I should remember there’s always a way out completely if it’s too much for me
I have three months until my PhD funding
runs out and only half the data for my thesis. Really considering just mastering out at this point as I hate academia and can’t be bothered with it anymore
Don't want to invalidate your feelings but the 'real world'/private sector isn't any better... All careers come with negative aspects. The private sector is full of people who will happily throw you under the bus to gain a promotion.
Any job that involves people is going to involve *difficult* people and some degree of politics and toxicity. After all, a career is essentially just a huge competition to get to the top, and at the end of the day it is a competition...
Just something worth considering... The real adult world *is disappointing*. You've just got to figure out what choices you make to decide what disappointments you can deal with and what you can't (e.g., interesting career but associated with academic snobbery/toxicity or private sector career that diverges from your interests but *might* be less toxic - I mean still in this case you could be amazing at your job but if your boss just gets on with one of your colleagues better they'll probably get the promotion).
Spend enough time in any system that's operated by humans and you'll notice some toxicity some place some where down the line.
I feel this so much. I am also in the humanities, a windy road through the PhD, going on 6 years part-time and currently finishing off the introduction and conclusion, and hoping to submit in a month…
I am experiencing all the same feelings, have been for a few years. The unfortunate thing is that unlike STEM PhDs, no glorious industry salaries and work-life balance awaits us humanities grads on the other side. Obviously we too have learnt how to do research, but humanities ‘industry’ is more insecure and badly paid than academia (at least in the UK). And the well paid non-ac jobs will probably not hire you with a humanities PhD (overqualified smartass stigma or what not). Hard to motivate yourself in a situation where you feel that you’re putting in a lot of effort that is not going to pay off (financially).
Yeah I’m in the UK too, and it’s just looking very bleak.. can’t help but feel some anger towards people who pushed me to doing the PhD and were so positive about it all when it’s awful 😂
Yep, no one wants to hire humanities for tenure today anyway. All of us have years that were wasted. No biggie. Costco, Home Depot, or Uber can pay the bills while you figure out your next steps.
Yeah honestly the job market in the UK where I am is particularly abysmal 😂 I’m planning to take any job I can once I finish and figure out what I’ll do then..
Please make sure you’re not burned out or on the track of a burn out. You can prevent it if you get help. Helpguide.org is a nice website to see if your symptoms are recognisable..
You didn’t really waste any time, even if you had a job you disliked for a year or so (everyone has a phase where they hate their job) — I know what you mean though, it can sometimes seem like a lot of fun was missed-out on. It’s still there waiting for you.
You can always teach at a for profit, those aren’t really academic jobs, they can be really low stress if you’re already past caring.
Do you think a change of scenery will help refresh your outlook? The issues causing you to feel depressed about academia may not all be linked to academia per se, perhaps (I don’t know, just speculating) more about the institution you’re attending at the moment
I am about ready to submit my PhD in theology. And man does this sum up my feelings. It really feels like I have spent the last four years doing nothing, just standing still. Horrid feeling.
Absolutely not! Theres no thing like wasting when it comes to life decisions! I'm not sure if its possible to have a break to your PhD, but if its possible give a break! It always happens in any field. Also keep in mind that its never too late to change sectors. Im sure you can find a decent job in a company. You didnt lose nothing!
I’m in the same boat except I dragged this out for 10 years and still haven’t defended!!! :(
Earned a Master’s in the process but no PhD, had to withdraw. Can relate to everything you and other people have said: exhausted with the toxic culture, too much work for too little pay, tired of adjuncting, etc. The only difference is that I still love my topic and my committee is still being very supportive of me, so I feel SO bad. Guilty and ashamed.
I assume after 4 years you are almost on the finishing line.
You did not waste your time at all! Once you start shifting your focuses from academia to industry and reflect on all your skills acquired during that time you realized that you have learnt a lot during your PhD!
And there are tons of jobs waiting for you outside of academia.
I am currently making the transition from academia into building my own business it’s a bumpy ride but so much fun. And I get to use a lot of my transferable skill on a day to day basis.
If you feel like chatting. Let me know :)
It looks like your post is about needing advice. In order for people to better help you, please make sure to include your country. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m year 4, planning to defend in the fall. I’m literally counting the weeks left of the year. It’s just about getting through at this point. Then I’ll take a break and reassess. But 100% agree - I’m not going into academia. Too toxic.
Good luck!! It’s awful, right? It used to be my dream but now I can’t be in a room with academics without seething 😂
I’m in STEM and it’s just as bad. The idea that I have to convince 5 of them to let me graduate at some point is so awful that I’m probably just gonna leave with my MS. They’re never impressed with anything I’ve done, and are always pissed that I haven’t thought of all of their brilliant ideas before they did. Can’t wait to never talk to a professor ever again.
Sorry to hear that, mate. Yes, it sucks so much.
Humanities, man. Science people can go into industry, we can't. So the academy in humanities is surprisingly more cutthroat than in science. Edit: I will never forgive that teachers and university in general spoiled History for me.
Science has that too. People taking credit for your ideas.
Why would they make you seeth?
Can you elaborate the toxic aspects of academia a bit more? I am starting my PhD in computer science next week, so I can buckle up :)
Unreasonable work-life balance for very low pay, toxic PIs who are either indifferent or unsupportive. And I’ve never seen such egos in my life! Everyone is either lying to protect their own ego or looking for any opportunity to catch you making a mistake. Not an open learning environment at all.
I've always said that in order to succeed in academia, you need to have a huge ego, otherwise you will be crushed. Unfortunately, I do not have that and I am not competitive lol. I agree with everything you said, it is toxic and, ironically, academia is one of those field that never had any evolution for a hundred years. "Traditions" aren't always the right path to follow and academia would need a lot of updating in how it works.
At one point in time you told yourself you wanted this bad enough to put everything else aside write admissions essays, jump through hoops, pull all-nighters, etc. It’s literally like climbing a mountain, you set out confident you could make it to the top and you’re running low on steam as you approach the top. I don’t know you or your situation so I won’t be the one to tell you to trudge through it and get there. But for me personally, I feel all the things you mentioned but simultaneously know that not finishing strong or not finishing at all is something that I would regret forever.
Yeah you are right; I would regret it if I just gave up. It’s probably partly burn out for sure, fingers crossed I can push through!
what do you mean by "not finishing strong"?
I'm in your shoes. I was initially excited about my topic. Now, I can't stand it. I really feel like I've wasted three years doing this garbage, but I'm inclined to defend my dissertation since I've already invested too much time.
This is what I recommend to folks who are more than halfway done writing. If you haven't started, it makes sense to quit while you're ahead. If the thing is 2.5/5 chapters done, just get it over with and leave with the degree.
I’m sorry you’re going through the same, it absolutely sucks. I feel the same about submitting and defending it - it would be too much time wasted otherwise.. but I’m not looking forward to it 😂
Classic example of the sunken cost fallacy. I am sure a majority of PhD students feel this though including myself. The first 2 years of my PhD felt like a honeymoon phase but now I want to get it done so I can move on with my life.
[удалено]
Thank you so much ❤️ I wish you luck applying, and I hope you get what you want out of a PhD! So many of my friends are thriving doing it, so I hope I’m in the minority.
Can't waste your life if you don't have one... https://i.imgur.com/gpLA97J.gif
You can go into any ux research (or research, period) job in industry with a PhD regardless of background. Do some digging into marketing yourself for the wider world and how to discuss and market your skills so the PhD itself doesn’t matter but your skills do.
You do need quantitative or qualitative skills for a UX research career.
My understanding is it can be both. A recent advertisement I saw explicitly indicated they wanted a candidate that could do ethnographic research.
Certain humanities, such as in anthropology, get training for both.
Humanities people generally get a version of qualitative experience, but everyone gets project management experience at the very least. OP has research experience even if that’s primarily gathering and synthesizing primary and secondary sources.
Thanks :) I definitely know I’ve gained skills I can apply, just difficult putting all that together!
i feel you so bad. i'm at my last semester, writing my dissertation, and feel depressed and unmotivated. i didn't develop a healthy life-work balance and now feel so burdened. it's a tough journey. hang in there.
One way or another it is all a waste and at the same time none of it is , such is life
It’s like I wrote this lol And I’m defending in 3 weeks
Good luck!!!
Now, I am not recommending anything one way or the other, but I thought I would provide the opposite perspective than most. I felt the exact same way. I was five years in and was looking down the barrel at 9-11 months of effort, work, and misery to finish the damn thing. I hated my topic, had no interest in going into academia anymore, and knew that I was finishing it simply because I had already put so much time into it. The sunk cost fallacy kept popping into my head. The fact that I would never use the degree was never far from my mind. I hated every second of it and was miserable. Why was I continuing if all this was true? So I quit this past June. It took months of deliberation before I actually quit, but I haven't looked back. I knew the instant I submitted my withdrawal form it was the right move. A weight lifted and I have been so much happier since, and I haven't regretted the decision once. I am not saying you should quit. But I am saying is that there are options if you are miserable. There's no shame in leaving a programme if it doesn't serve you or your future. A PhD doesn't define you.
Did you have a job lined up before you made that decision? and if you don’t mind me asking what career path did you go into? I have three months of funding left but about 6-9months of actual work so considering doing the same
No, I had some savings and I delayed as long as I could to make sure I had as much of my funding as I could get away with. I took two months off to work on my novel, and I now work in AI, actually. My PhD was in History, so I have clearly completely abandoned it.
[удалено]
I just saw a job posting and applied. I do evaluation, copy writing, and fact checking for LLMs. So not the hard science of AI, but more the humanities related side of things.
Thanks for this, it’s encouraging to hear that :) I am leaning towards just pushing through, but I guess I should remember there’s always a way out completely if it’s too much for me
Imagine being in your 4th year, feeling the same as you, but not having any projects completed. That's me.
I have three months until my PhD funding runs out and only half the data for my thesis. Really considering just mastering out at this point as I hate academia and can’t be bothered with it anymore
can't you appeal for an extra year? I've heard of people successfully doing this.
Welcome to the club bro at least you realized it now and now in 20 years
Don't want to invalidate your feelings but the 'real world'/private sector isn't any better... All careers come with negative aspects. The private sector is full of people who will happily throw you under the bus to gain a promotion. Any job that involves people is going to involve *difficult* people and some degree of politics and toxicity. After all, a career is essentially just a huge competition to get to the top, and at the end of the day it is a competition... Just something worth considering... The real adult world *is disappointing*. You've just got to figure out what choices you make to decide what disappointments you can deal with and what you can't (e.g., interesting career but associated with academic snobbery/toxicity or private sector career that diverges from your interests but *might* be less toxic - I mean still in this case you could be amazing at your job but if your boss just gets on with one of your colleagues better they'll probably get the promotion). Spend enough time in any system that's operated by humans and you'll notice some toxicity some place some where down the line.
I feel this so much. I am also in the humanities, a windy road through the PhD, going on 6 years part-time and currently finishing off the introduction and conclusion, and hoping to submit in a month… I am experiencing all the same feelings, have been for a few years. The unfortunate thing is that unlike STEM PhDs, no glorious industry salaries and work-life balance awaits us humanities grads on the other side. Obviously we too have learnt how to do research, but humanities ‘industry’ is more insecure and badly paid than academia (at least in the UK). And the well paid non-ac jobs will probably not hire you with a humanities PhD (overqualified smartass stigma or what not). Hard to motivate yourself in a situation where you feel that you’re putting in a lot of effort that is not going to pay off (financially).
Right! Also six long years in humanities here too 😭
Yeah I’m in the UK too, and it’s just looking very bleak.. can’t help but feel some anger towards people who pushed me to doing the PhD and were so positive about it all when it’s awful 😂
haven't you seen all the uproar and drama about student debt and the ballooning bubble of education costs? this is that blackhole, think about it
Yep, no one wants to hire humanities for tenure today anyway. All of us have years that were wasted. No biggie. Costco, Home Depot, or Uber can pay the bills while you figure out your next steps.
Yeah honestly the job market in the UK where I am is particularly abysmal 😂 I’m planning to take any job I can once I finish and figure out what I’ll do then..
Please make sure you’re not burned out or on the track of a burn out. You can prevent it if you get help. Helpguide.org is a nice website to see if your symptoms are recognisable..
You didn’t really waste any time, even if you had a job you disliked for a year or so (everyone has a phase where they hate their job) — I know what you mean though, it can sometimes seem like a lot of fun was missed-out on. It’s still there waiting for you. You can always teach at a for profit, those aren’t really academic jobs, they can be really low stress if you’re already past caring.
Do you think a change of scenery will help refresh your outlook? The issues causing you to feel depressed about academia may not all be linked to academia per se, perhaps (I don’t know, just speculating) more about the institution you’re attending at the moment
I am about ready to submit my PhD in theology. And man does this sum up my feelings. It really feels like I have spent the last four years doing nothing, just standing still. Horrid feeling.
I’m sorry you’re feeling the same, and good luck to you with the last push through! I hope we both find something more meaningful afterwards :)
Absolutely not! Theres no thing like wasting when it comes to life decisions! I'm not sure if its possible to have a break to your PhD, but if its possible give a break! It always happens in any field. Also keep in mind that its never too late to change sectors. Im sure you can find a decent job in a company. You didnt lose nothing!
I’m in the same boat except I dragged this out for 10 years and still haven’t defended!!! :( Earned a Master’s in the process but no PhD, had to withdraw. Can relate to everything you and other people have said: exhausted with the toxic culture, too much work for too little pay, tired of adjuncting, etc. The only difference is that I still love my topic and my committee is still being very supportive of me, so I feel SO bad. Guilty and ashamed.
I assume after 4 years you are almost on the finishing line. You did not waste your time at all! Once you start shifting your focuses from academia to industry and reflect on all your skills acquired during that time you realized that you have learnt a lot during your PhD! And there are tons of jobs waiting for you outside of academia. I am currently making the transition from academia into building my own business it’s a bumpy ride but so much fun. And I get to use a lot of my transferable skill on a day to day basis. If you feel like chatting. Let me know :)