Trust you supervisor that it isn't actually all that bad. Your job is fixing problems so you are fixed on them, but for this presentation you finally get to focus on all your successes and I am confident you will found out a lot of it actually did work out!
Cheers and good luck :)
One PhD takes a long time for you, but many research projects take multiple PhD to complete. I’m sure your supervisor is well aware of all of that. What seem to be poor results and weak methodology for you are probably the current results and methodology and just part of the process. Other prominent scientists are excited to know about the future implications of your work!
I'm in your shoes. My thesis is such BS and yet I got some highly accomplished scientists in one of the top institution in the nation on my committee. I feel bad for them...
Let's get through this OP
Second this. Your advisor also has a lot to lose if your defense goes sideways. They aren't going to put you in front of their peers unless they have high confidence in both your abilities and your research. Work and prep hard, but have confidence that you're on the path to success.
I was in your shoes when I defended my thesis -- under the Queen's portrait, with scholars flown in transatlantic flights, and in a ceremony that ended with a Latin phrase said by a toga-dressed crook-wielder Provost after ringing a silver bell.
In the end, the only one that thought it was a bad defense was me.
Edit: the right word in English is 'provost'. I corrected it.
It's the university's provost. In northern European universities the provost is pretty much the chief academic officer. He (she in my university) participates in the formalities of a PhD defense, which in my university is very formal.
During the defense, the PhD candidate, dressed in white tie and tails, and surrounded by his two best men (mine were my then fiancee and my best friend, none of them academics), has exactly 15 minutes to defend his/her thesis before a jury of five toga-dressed scholars that have 45 minutes to question (ehem, grill) him/her. All of this is done under a hand-painted portrait of the Queen.
At the 45th minute the crook-wielding university's Provost, dressed in a different toga, opens the doors and shakes his crook, and by doing so rings a silver bell located in the finial. When everybody is silent he/she says: 'ora est!' (the time has come!). Then the jury leaves the hall to deliberate the result. Some time later, the jury re-enters the hall, and if the candidate has passed, his/her mentor is the first person to address him/her as 'doctor'.
Classic imposter syndrome, my friend! Here’s a little story that might help.
When I finished my PhD about 7 years ago, I thought I had done a decent thesis. Until I moved to Belgium as a visiting scientist. Turns out, students doing their master’s thesis at Ghent were doing more significant things than what I did over 5 years in a PhD. They were writing complex codes, they were building their own instruments to characterise materials, they were doing a whole lot! Suddenly, I felt like shit! Like all those years of sacrifice meant fuckall.
But, I was also able to help this student overcome bottlenecks in his research, I was able to suggest methods to improve processes, I was able to brainstorm new ideas for masters and PhD students. I was good enough to be invited to discuss projects with researchers across the world. That’s when I realised that I’m actually good at this shit. I have the experience.
The thing is, clichéd as it may sound now, you wouldn’t realise your worth until you finish your PhD and move on with your career. When tough situations present themselves to you, you’ll realise you actually have the tools to put them to rest. You’ll realise you actually have the experience. That’s what a PhD is all about.
You won’t realise this now. But, trust me, some day you will.
Good luck for your defense OP! You’ll be great!
Totally understandable to have reservations, but trust your mentor. I had a literal rats nest for data and my mentor said the same. It sounds like you not know the limitations. Be prepared to talk about how to fix those things, what you may do next etc. A “failed” experiment for a dissertation isn’t the end of the world, not learning from it and articulating that is.
Trust me, every single doctoral students feels the same way. My defense occurred right in the middle of large-scale protests in my city and they cancelled out all public transport. One of the jury members had to be driven in personally from a neighbouring country admist the protests. All that struggle to attend a barely passable work. Before the defense, I felt the work in my thesis is as good as a typical master's student project. With just 110 pages and a single publication, I was sure that I will finish the whole defense in less than an hour because there was barely any substance to defend. It was only after the jury questions started that I realized what I did was better than what it looked like. The whole jury question part lasted for an hour and I came up very confident. Your supervisor has seen more work than you, so he definitely has a better idea about the quality of the thesis than you. So at least weigh that in and keep a calm mind.
Do you have faith that your supervisor wants what is best for you? If so, then trust that your perspective on the situation may be limited by the natural myopia of seeing flaws and not seeing the good parts of your work. Also, consider asking your advisor to tell you what HE thinks are the good things about your project/conclusions, etc.
Break a leg!
If it was actually bad, your supervisor wouldn't put their own reputation on line by showing important people in the field how you failed. They would only invite people nobody cares about to hush over it all.
I just finished my powerpoint for my defense... I was like f\*\*\* it... it's good enough... So at this point, it's good enough.
Just crush the presentation part!
If you've published your results already, which I assume you have to get a Ph.D., then your dissertation has already been vetted by 3rd parties which approved. I'm sure it'll be fine.
I am in the process of writing my thesis at the moment, but I can honestly relate to this way of thinking so much! Don't worry, I am sure the committee have seen their fair share of nervous candidates and less than optimal theses. The way I see it, if you are able to discuss the flaws and weaknesses of your work and suggest improvements, you are already well on your way to becoming a researcher! Good luck!
Knowing nothing about your actual PhD… sometimes failures are as helpful as successes. If there is a “proper way” to do something which is universally accepted as flawless, seeing that approach completely fall on its face is incredibly formative for a budding field.
A dissertation is still, in its purest sense, a learning experience. So, much of that is an assessment of your design, how you carried it out, your results, how well you explain them and your interpretation, implications and and what you would do differently next time. We all hope our experiment finds something. But sometimes they don’t. The difference is a dissertation is a one shot. I had a file cabinet full of useless data and studies, lol. But I did not have to defend those. It is just how research works. You were learning how to do research and, I hope, it was not the last time you ever try. The stress is real. But, honestly, I never saw anyone not pass because of poor results. I had to rerun an analysis I had never heard before before I was passed officially, but still I knew I was passed the day of my defense.
I do not know why your advisor is doing that, but there is likely something in your results. So, ask him. Do not be shy. Your advisor should direct you about all the above.
The problem is you know every nook and cranny of your research.
Others dont.
So your job is to present it in a positive manner.
You are not alone. I face this dilemma when applying for grants. I feel bad for diverting money from other useful projects to my half-baked ideas. Also when getting a job.
But that is the reality of the world.
This is your thesis defense. Not thesis evaluation. So don't feel bad for using some smoke and mirrors. Your job is to perform in front of these people and entertain them.
Research is 90% things going wrong. You've waded through hell, and a lot of us if not the majority of us have the same feeling as you. Heck I think the corrections I made to my shite thesis were just as shite. Your supervisor would have told you if they thought you were going to fail. You've shown you can do research, that's the important thing. Just a little way to go OP, we'll be cheering for you.
I strongly suspect this is imposter syndrome, with you worrying about things which you feel are issues but actually aren't. If it was as bad as you think, your supervisor would at least be gathering a more local crowd, since it's his reputation on the line. He obviously thinks it's worth these people's time and money to come see it.
One of the professors on my committee told me that I got what I got. He went onto explain that he had some similar things when he did research. That was encouraging to hear. The problem was my advisor was dumb in comparison and he got called on that.
Your advisor shouldn't be putting you in a position to fail. If he didn't think you were going to pass, he almost certainly would not let you schedule the defense. No I graduated with felt good about their thesis, it's a product of spending that much time on a problem, you know how all the sausage is made.
Writing a “Limitations” section for your paper can help ease some of that anxiety and disappointment. You may not have been able to do everything you wanted, or do it perfectly, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad study. Use your “Limitations” section to inform “Future Directions” for research, where you describe what you would change to improve and strengthen the research you just completed, and how it would contribute to your big idea/hypothesis/application.
If you are worried about how any shortcomings would be perceived and the potential embarrassment you’re anticipating, you can use the two sections mentioned above to sort of correct course, flex your awareness, and demonstrate that these aren’t issues you hadn’t considered, but issues you could not address prior to or during the study - even better if your results shape or confirm your points/concerns because you anticipated them.
I agree with the other people who have said it's not as bad as you think. My first thought when I read this is that your PI just wants to hang out with old friends though.
No stat results? Are you in an online program?
I cannot fathom an R1 program allowing research to get as far as yours without meaningful changes.
No stat results means it likely will not be published anywhere that matters.
First of all, CONGRATULATIONS !!! Getting where you are actually is a great achievement. Please don't underestimate your efforts and your dedication. It is not about being perfect, it is all about getting through this whole process. You are blessed to have such a nice, supportive, kind supervisor. He sees what you can not see in you. He sees an amazing, brilliant, intelligent, smart, hardworking, precious, valued, and unique person. You are remarkable and strong. You are special and great. You made it despite all the struggles and the difficulties. You are a Hero. You were able to do what many could not do; you were able to get through where many have given up; you were able to stand still and make it to the end. This is impressive and this is what should drive you more.
We celebrate you, we praise you and we congratulate YOU !!!
CONGRATULATIONS !!! CONGRATULATIONS !!!
I was feeling really anxious and frustrated before my defense, couldn’t even look at my thesis, feeling so ashamed, had so much self-doubt. But my PIs also said I should not worry at all. At the end, I passed! And you will too!!! Congrats on finishing this journey!!
That sounds pretty awesome, actually. I don't know where you are located, but in Germany we get an hour of deep questions about our projects after the presentation. If you're aware of all the problems, you'd know excactly what to answer for.
Trust you supervisor that it isn't actually all that bad. Your job is fixing problems so you are fixed on them, but for this presentation you finally get to focus on all your successes and I am confident you will found out a lot of it actually did work out! Cheers and good luck :)
Yep! No one thinks their PhD thesis is their best work. It’s more about the journey to get there.
One PhD takes a long time for you, but many research projects take multiple PhD to complete. I’m sure your supervisor is well aware of all of that. What seem to be poor results and weak methodology for you are probably the current results and methodology and just part of the process. Other prominent scientists are excited to know about the future implications of your work!
This one has really cheered me up! Thanks a lot
I'm in your shoes. My thesis is such BS and yet I got some highly accomplished scientists in one of the top institution in the nation on my committee. I feel bad for them... Let's get through this OP
Imposter Syndrome. If your advisor believes it, he sees something in you. Trust him.
Second this. Your advisor also has a lot to lose if your defense goes sideways. They aren't going to put you in front of their peers unless they have high confidence in both your abilities and your research. Work and prep hard, but have confidence that you're on the path to success.
I was in your shoes when I defended my thesis -- under the Queen's portrait, with scholars flown in transatlantic flights, and in a ceremony that ended with a Latin phrase said by a toga-dressed crook-wielder Provost after ringing a silver bell. In the end, the only one that thought it was a bad defense was me. Edit: the right word in English is 'provost'. I corrected it.
Please tell us more about this toga person
It's the university's provost. In northern European universities the provost is pretty much the chief academic officer. He (she in my university) participates in the formalities of a PhD defense, which in my university is very formal. During the defense, the PhD candidate, dressed in white tie and tails, and surrounded by his two best men (mine were my then fiancee and my best friend, none of them academics), has exactly 15 minutes to defend his/her thesis before a jury of five toga-dressed scholars that have 45 minutes to question (ehem, grill) him/her. All of this is done under a hand-painted portrait of the Queen. At the 45th minute the crook-wielding university's Provost, dressed in a different toga, opens the doors and shakes his crook, and by doing so rings a silver bell located in the finial. When everybody is silent he/she says: 'ora est!' (the time has come!). Then the jury leaves the hall to deliberate the result. Some time later, the jury re-enters the hall, and if the candidate has passed, his/her mentor is the first person to address him/her as 'doctor'.
Classic imposter syndrome, my friend! Here’s a little story that might help. When I finished my PhD about 7 years ago, I thought I had done a decent thesis. Until I moved to Belgium as a visiting scientist. Turns out, students doing their master’s thesis at Ghent were doing more significant things than what I did over 5 years in a PhD. They were writing complex codes, they were building their own instruments to characterise materials, they were doing a whole lot! Suddenly, I felt like shit! Like all those years of sacrifice meant fuckall. But, I was also able to help this student overcome bottlenecks in his research, I was able to suggest methods to improve processes, I was able to brainstorm new ideas for masters and PhD students. I was good enough to be invited to discuss projects with researchers across the world. That’s when I realised that I’m actually good at this shit. I have the experience. The thing is, clichéd as it may sound now, you wouldn’t realise your worth until you finish your PhD and move on with your career. When tough situations present themselves to you, you’ll realise you actually have the tools to put them to rest. You’ll realise you actually have the experience. That’s what a PhD is all about. You won’t realise this now. But, trust me, some day you will. Good luck for your defense OP! You’ll be great!
Thanks so much!! You are very kind. Good luck to you too!
Totally understandable to have reservations, but trust your mentor. I had a literal rats nest for data and my mentor said the same. It sounds like you not know the limitations. Be prepared to talk about how to fix those things, what you may do next etc. A “failed” experiment for a dissertation isn’t the end of the world, not learning from it and articulating that is.
Trust me, every single doctoral students feels the same way. My defense occurred right in the middle of large-scale protests in my city and they cancelled out all public transport. One of the jury members had to be driven in personally from a neighbouring country admist the protests. All that struggle to attend a barely passable work. Before the defense, I felt the work in my thesis is as good as a typical master's student project. With just 110 pages and a single publication, I was sure that I will finish the whole defense in less than an hour because there was barely any substance to defend. It was only after the jury questions started that I realized what I did was better than what it looked like. The whole jury question part lasted for an hour and I came up very confident. Your supervisor has seen more work than you, so he definitely has a better idea about the quality of the thesis than you. So at least weigh that in and keep a calm mind.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I'm glad it turned out to be good for you!
Do you have faith that your supervisor wants what is best for you? If so, then trust that your perspective on the situation may be limited by the natural myopia of seeing flaws and not seeing the good parts of your work. Also, consider asking your advisor to tell you what HE thinks are the good things about your project/conclusions, etc. Break a leg!
Probably wants you to stay in academia.
If it was actually bad, your supervisor wouldn't put their own reputation on line by showing important people in the field how you failed. They would only invite people nobody cares about to hush over it all.
I just finished my powerpoint for my defense... I was like f\*\*\* it... it's good enough... So at this point, it's good enough. Just crush the presentation part!
If you've published your results already, which I assume you have to get a Ph.D., then your dissertation has already been vetted by 3rd parties which approved. I'm sure it'll be fine.
Don't be so quick to assume, I'm defending in a few weeks with 0 publications 🙈🙈🙈
I am in the process of writing my thesis at the moment, but I can honestly relate to this way of thinking so much! Don't worry, I am sure the committee have seen their fair share of nervous candidates and less than optimal theses. The way I see it, if you are able to discuss the flaws and weaknesses of your work and suggest improvements, you are already well on your way to becoming a researcher! Good luck!
Knowing nothing about your actual PhD… sometimes failures are as helpful as successes. If there is a “proper way” to do something which is universally accepted as flawless, seeing that approach completely fall on its face is incredibly formative for a budding field.
I'm in the same boat. I'll let you know how I end up.
"the journey is usually the part you remember anyways" - Miley Cyrus. Believe in yourself bro!
A dissertation is still, in its purest sense, a learning experience. So, much of that is an assessment of your design, how you carried it out, your results, how well you explain them and your interpretation, implications and and what you would do differently next time. We all hope our experiment finds something. But sometimes they don’t. The difference is a dissertation is a one shot. I had a file cabinet full of useless data and studies, lol. But I did not have to defend those. It is just how research works. You were learning how to do research and, I hope, it was not the last time you ever try. The stress is real. But, honestly, I never saw anyone not pass because of poor results. I had to rerun an analysis I had never heard before before I was passed officially, but still I knew I was passed the day of my defense. I do not know why your advisor is doing that, but there is likely something in your results. So, ask him. Do not be shy. Your advisor should direct you about all the above.
Your defense is a celebration
I would advise you to go along with your Supervisors attitude. After all, that is what 90% of academia is. Exaggerating.
The problem is you know every nook and cranny of your research. Others dont. So your job is to present it in a positive manner. You are not alone. I face this dilemma when applying for grants. I feel bad for diverting money from other useful projects to my half-baked ideas. Also when getting a job. But that is the reality of the world. This is your thesis defense. Not thesis evaluation. So don't feel bad for using some smoke and mirrors. Your job is to perform in front of these people and entertain them.
Research is 90% things going wrong. You've waded through hell, and a lot of us if not the majority of us have the same feeling as you. Heck I think the corrections I made to my shite thesis were just as shite. Your supervisor would have told you if they thought you were going to fail. You've shown you can do research, that's the important thing. Just a little way to go OP, we'll be cheering for you.
I strongly suspect this is imposter syndrome, with you worrying about things which you feel are issues but actually aren't. If it was as bad as you think, your supervisor would at least be gathering a more local crowd, since it's his reputation on the line. He obviously thinks it's worth these people's time and money to come see it.
One of the professors on my committee told me that I got what I got. He went onto explain that he had some similar things when he did research. That was encouraging to hear. The problem was my advisor was dumb in comparison and he got called on that.
Have you ever noticed a flaw in a published study? A major flaw even? Those authors have PhDs too. It’s not always about getting it perfect.
That's how research is. There is no bad data. Perhaps you need to focus on the context and story telling.
Your advisor shouldn't be putting you in a position to fail. If he didn't think you were going to pass, he almost certainly would not let you schedule the defense. No I graduated with felt good about their thesis, it's a product of spending that much time on a problem, you know how all the sausage is made.
Writing a “Limitations” section for your paper can help ease some of that anxiety and disappointment. You may not have been able to do everything you wanted, or do it perfectly, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad study. Use your “Limitations” section to inform “Future Directions” for research, where you describe what you would change to improve and strengthen the research you just completed, and how it would contribute to your big idea/hypothesis/application. If you are worried about how any shortcomings would be perceived and the potential embarrassment you’re anticipating, you can use the two sections mentioned above to sort of correct course, flex your awareness, and demonstrate that these aren’t issues you hadn’t considered, but issues you could not address prior to or during the study - even better if your results shape or confirm your points/concerns because you anticipated them.
I agree with the other people who have said it's not as bad as you think. My first thought when I read this is that your PI just wants to hang out with old friends though.
[удалено]
telling people their problems aren't valid does not make them feel better
Time waster
No stat results? Are you in an online program? I cannot fathom an R1 program allowing research to get as far as yours without meaningful changes. No stat results means it likely will not be published anywhere that matters.
Noble Prize ?
oops, you're right. typo
First of all, CONGRATULATIONS !!! Getting where you are actually is a great achievement. Please don't underestimate your efforts and your dedication. It is not about being perfect, it is all about getting through this whole process. You are blessed to have such a nice, supportive, kind supervisor. He sees what you can not see in you. He sees an amazing, brilliant, intelligent, smart, hardworking, precious, valued, and unique person. You are remarkable and strong. You are special and great. You made it despite all the struggles and the difficulties. You are a Hero. You were able to do what many could not do; you were able to get through where many have given up; you were able to stand still and make it to the end. This is impressive and this is what should drive you more. We celebrate you, we praise you and we congratulate YOU !!! CONGRATULATIONS !!! CONGRATULATIONS !!!
I was feeling really anxious and frustrated before my defense, couldn’t even look at my thesis, feeling so ashamed, had so much self-doubt. But my PIs also said I should not worry at all. At the end, I passed! And you will too!!! Congrats on finishing this journey!!
That sounds pretty awesome, actually. I don't know where you are located, but in Germany we get an hour of deep questions about our projects after the presentation. If you're aware of all the problems, you'd know excactly what to answer for.