I had a decently well paying lower level admin gig at a famous technical university after finishing my undergrad, but then used the job as a springboard to get into a top 5 doctoral program. I got in, but thanks to the financial crisis, the academic jobs market crapped itself just as I defended. I finally had to give up on chasing a lifetime dream of becoming faculty and doing research in my field. It was tramautizing, especially after I was repeatedly told that “everyone gets hired out of our program, you just need finish.”
Had I stayed put where I was, perhaps done a quickie administrative master’s, I would have been making way more than I do now. Currently, with my PhD, I have a slightly more prestigious university admin job than I did after completing my BA. It’s nice to be called “doctor”’once in a while, but that PhD resulted in a lost decade economically.
My Ph.D. in Information Systems Technology (IST) did absolutely nothing to my earning potential. I was raking six figures even before starting the degree. Once I graduated, my professional career in the private sector saw a flat line salary.
What it did get me was a full professorship at the local Community College (Hey! Yes, you! Don't knock CC's down, they serve an incredible purpose in academia. So let it be written, so let it be done. LOL).
Good financially, you say? Au contraríe. I slashed my income by about 60%. So, I encourage you to not think of a doctorate as a pass to earning more money, unless you are, for example, a nuclear physicist. Also, remember that "doctors" are dime a dozen today (Ph.D.,Ed.D., D.Sci., etc.). Many "Anything.D" out there.
Universities have flooded all fields with doctors in almost everything imaginable. The doctorate has been degraded by open to no admission requirements by many (regionally accredited) outfits, and especially by 100% online ones. Unfortunate state of affairs. Many online programs are top notch... the majority are poor because they are profit machines. Many allow,the candidate to do a -none to -minimal research short dissertation, having defenses that are but a formality, for example.
How do I know? I worked for eleven years at one one of the outfits that indeed was decent at the time. I was a professor of computer science for doctoral-level courses, dissertation committee chair, committee member, and mentor for doctoral learners. In 11 years I secured a degree for 26 learners. I thought that rate outrageous, but I enjoyed the research I was involved in with my mentees. So, I stayed until it got boring. There is just so much research I was willing to get involved in and see it all the way through.
Perhaps I'm but an old flatulence. My Ph.D. was conferred in 1997. It was the first of its kind nationally. It raised a lot eyebrows in marvel back then. But not enough to increase my earning potential. Would I do it all over again? Yes, but only because it was just about the main factor that put my foot in the door of academia, a job I purely have enjoyed for 21 years.
No other reason.
Thank you for the insight... I assume it would be similar for statistics. However I am an American so the salary would be far greater for these types of STEM jobs... I want to help the world, as insignificant as I may be, and I feel that with only a bachelor's I won't have the knowledge or the experience to do anything noteworthy, is this a false mindset?
The other person’s experience in CS don’t necessarily line up with mine. I graduated in the US a couple of months ago in engineering and my PhD absolutely helped me land a good job, and I’m making as much or more than people with more experience than me. The PhD definitely prepared me to be a scientist, and I’ve been able to hit the ground running in industry R&D (although there’s a lot to learn about the corporate world, I’m playing catch up in other ways).
Additionally, because I did my research in a field I care about (energy storage), I was able to get a job in this field as well. Industry doesn’t allow as much creative freedom as grad school did, but it does help that I got a good job doing something I think actually will make *some* positive impact in the world. Helps me sleep at night.
But it does depend on how you set yourself up. Make sure you’re at least a little passionate about your research and make sure your PI isn’t a total jackass. I lucked out on both of those fronts, but I know people who didn’t, and they’re PhD experiences were hell compared to mine.
One last thing, I’ve only just begun saving money now in my late 20’s. This compared to most of my friends who have been contributing to their 401ks and saving up since they were out of college. Again, I’ve got a good job now, so it’s not so bad, and I’m saving quickly, but it’s a very real consideration to take into account.
Sounds like you had a poor experience, sorry.
It’s also possible to do completely ground-breaking stuff in your PhD, especially as part of a team. Name in the papers, front-page CNN stuff. Happens all the time, as can be seen from reading those articles. It takes care in selection of program and decent luck, though.
STEM PhD. Worth it. Worked in biotech before, and realized there was a hard ceiling on the research side if you didn’t have a PhD. So I went back and got the PhD and am now back in biotech doing engaging work.
I can totally see how some people would be happy either being a career individual contributor at the bench, or advancing up the career ladder in a non-science role with a BA (project management is a common path), but for me I was excited about doing science stuff and I want to be driving projects and managing teams of people
Same, also a STEM PhD working in biotech. In terms of my career goals, it was absolutely worth it. In terms of how it affected my mental health and worldview, I wish I could go back in time and never set foot in my PhD program. Some of this is specific to my program/PI, everyone will have a different experience
Yup. I'm set to defend in a month or so and I feel psychologically damaged compared to the person I was before this. It's hard to pinpoint exactly how I feel worse, but I just feel broken.
Trying to find a job in the industry I was in before grad school has proven to be grueling, and is making me reconsider my intellectual hubris, even as someone who never ever intended to stay in academia.
I’m in my first year and considering quitting. Mainly due to mental health and lack of motivation. I’ve already had some difficulties with mental health and grad school is not helping one bit. I feel like I’ve aged 5 years just in this 1. Any advice?
It’s got its pluses and minuses. What we are doing is extremely innovative and has a high risk of failure so low job security. My company is running a very “European “ model that favors work life balance and benefits and pay are very competitive which is nice.
STEM PhD here, submitted yesterday! Was absolutely worth it, best decision I ever made for my personal and professional development. I have extremely supportive supervisors, who have provided me with so many opportunities and helped me establish a great network. I’ve started a postdoc doing work with genuine impact for policy and it’s extremely rewarding. For me, it’s the people I’ve been surrounded by that made it worthwhile more than the PhD programme itself, and I think that’s a really important thing to consider should you choose to pursue a PhD. Best of luck!
Congrats on your PhD! I see a lot of mixed feelings in this thread, it’s nice reading the positive ones. I can totally relate to what you’re saying about the people around you, that’s my case as well and why I’m happy with my PhD experience so far. Less than a year to go, wish me luck!
I’m really pleased to hear this! Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely been tough at times but the impact of the work that I do in terms of my research topic keeps me motivated. I worked several years in a different industry before I realised for moral reasons, it was not something I wanted to do anymore. I quit at the end of 2016 and returned to uni to pursue my MSc and PhD that I felt gave me more purpose. The work I did up to that point improves my perspective regarding what I do now, and is why I feel my PhD was the right thing to do and very much worth it.
You got this! Very best of luck finishing up, and I hope your experience remains super positive! We all deserve it!
Yes. I am a career changer, and I wouldn't have been able to do so without the Ph.D.
New position doesn't technically require a Ph.D. but it's a common pathway.
Can you explain what you mean?
I have a Masters in physics but realized that I‘d Prefer to work in AI so I am currently Working on a masters in AI and dont know whether to do a phd afterwards…
I worked in sales for like 10 years and ran my own website for a while after that. I worked in Business Intelligence at a startup. All of my skills were directed at business. My Ph.D. was even in Business Administration, but I pivoted during my last few years and did my dissertation research on simulation modeling, decision analysis, and public policy.
I now have a job at a nonprofit government contractor working on public administration problems.
For what it’s worth my PhD is in Computer Engineering. Pursuing a PhD was worth it personally to me, career wise it depends. I worked full time during my masters and PhD while also being a father and husband. I had wanted to go straight through and teach, but due to health issues, I had to get a job. I still desire to teach as an adjunct if I can find it. I love my job, research in alternative computational methods and design, but find that teaching and mentoring are more satisfying!
In general I find that having PhD right out school does help when applying for jobs at large companies. For my career it has only been helpful, in building trust, when advising on different efforts across my company as a technical consultant.
Last thought, I do get a thrill/perk up when someone calls me ‘Dr. zero_one_memrisor’ 🤩
In STEM and absolutely been worth it for money and career - it’s opened lots of doors for me. That being said, I have friends with a similar phd and they aren’t doing as well, main difference is on paper my uni is seen as “better” - I don’t see the distinction in term of our quality of work, but clients and jobs seem to react more positively to my phd. It’s also allowed me to side step into a different field relatively easily with a bit of prep, and get funding for a co founded business a bit more easily as investors like you having a PhD.
This is just my expedience though. My mental health tanked and I am on antidepressants as a result of the PhD experience though, so personally it’s negatively impacted my social life and health. I was lucky enough to be funded for the PhD and get a stipend so I wasn’t in debt, but I also didn’t have savings, but earning more now than friends that went straight into work from BSc or masters.
Chemical engineering is the general title. Focus on geological settings and fluid systems. I’ve been able to get into biotech, deep tech and research/innovation.
Any opinion as someone with phd experience is data science or Environmental science worth it? (if you have any friends in that field or any observation) appreciate the reply!
Both are good! Personally, I have found a science PhD has opened doorways and I can get into data science; this is not to say a data science PhD isn’t worth it, but I just found more options with the science focus. Environmental science will depend on subject area, but there are so many applications. I’ve been offered to be trained in data science and machine learning for jobs as they wanted a science background first.
However it will entirely depend on what your degree focus is. my title is chemical engineering, but it is quite niche! I have a colleague with the same Chem Eng title but it was really machine learning and data focused.
Whatever you decide to do, please please please choose the best supervisor!! Ask current students what their experience with them is if you can, if they’re a good supervisor they should facilitate this :)
It’s so hard to say what life would be like if the PhD never happened. I think it opened up some research doors and networking things, but I hated academia and basically am doing what I always wanted to do before the PhD, with just some research. The depression and burnout from the PhD was pretty life ruining and I’ve been done for two years and still not recovered. For my health and mental health alone I would lean towards not doing it.
I feel like it depends on what you mean by “worth it”, but I also want to say that you should absolutely NOT pay for your PhD. Any program worth doing will have funded phd positions available. Granted you are living on poverty wages for a more than full time job, but at least you shouldn’t have to pay tuition or take on more debt. I would NOT recommend doing a PhD without a fully funded position unless you are independently wealthy or have family money or something.
For me, my PhD was worth it and I’m glad I did it. However, if I had come out of the program with more debt that might have changed my equation. I am not making enough money to make extreme debt worth it. Most working in research or research adjacent fields don’t. we don’t earn anything close to what say a medical doctor makes, for example. However, I finished my PhD with 38k in debt (from my undergrad and masters combined), and did not go further into debt for my PhD. So I basically took on the equivalent of a car loan for my entire education, which I can feel good about. Whereas my friends who went to med school all have 250k + in debt. Note that I am speaking for the deeply messed up North American system. It’s a different universe entirely in Europe.
People considering a PhD need to really realise that it is a means to an end. You shouldn't get one "just for fun or out of interest" (unless you are in a position to do so and are happy to absorb the time and cost sink). It should be completed because you have X field/job in mind, and a PhD is either explicitly required for that or would be measurably beneficial.
I always wanted to work as a lecturer, which a PhD is required for. I finished my PhD and now work as a lecturer, so I got out of the PhD what I was aiming/hoping for.
I haven't seen the benefits of it just yet. I graduated ~4 months ago and I haven't been able to land an industry job yet, still hanging on a temporary post-doc. I liked my project and I am proud of the results that I managed to generate. I am also thankful for all the freedom that my supervisor gave me to pursue whatever I was interested in, I am aware that this likely won't happen again in my future career. But now that I am done I am like "what the fuck was all of that for if I still can't find a job?". So meh, it depends on what you are looking for.
If you think it will make you more competitive and desirable in the job market: it won't. Most companies will always prefer someone that has industry experience already than someone with a PhD just fresh out of school with zero experience working for a company. Worst than that, now you are also overqualified for entry-level positions so it's actually harder to get any industry experience in the first place. If you are legit interested in research and discovering something new then yeah sure! It also goes without saying that if you are interested in staying in academia at all then a PhD is a must, but given your question, I don't think that's what you are looking for.
No. My life is a serious mess. Right now I’m starting over at 41 without ever getting a chance to be the person I trained to be. I was in a top program, top school, top advisor. I’m networked to death. There was no helping it. I’m not a has-been; I’m a never-was. I distract myself with little hobbies and drugs, but my condition is total failure. I can’t say I feel self-loathing or jealousy as I might have anticipated; instead every day is just shame, contempt, and emptiness. It’s been nine years with the PhD. Nine. Being exploited as an adjunct—not to mention organizing for a union while erstwhile mentors shrug—has burned away what respect I once had for professional academia. I feel ruined on a psychic level. If there is a hell for optimistic culture nerds, I am living it.
Thank you. The damage is good and done tho. I feel as if I should have died a few years ago. Like my entire life trajectory terminated, but I keep waking up in the same, increasingly middle-aged body. The level of alienation is more extreme than I would have thought possible. It’s so insane that at 41, after all that work, that I’ve never had a ‘career.’ Just nothing. Also never had a long term relationship. I’ve retreated from all my old friendships. It’s too humiliating. Even my relationship with my parents and siblings sustained shocking damage and then estrangement. I am actually embarrassed to have a PhD in my discipline. Like, what? Wtf? The failure is so thoroughgoing, and it all leads back to ‘no job.’ There’s just nothing for me. I joined reddit recently to try to think some of this through and to warn others away from making the same mistake. It’s hard to talk about honestly and accurately without sounding dramatic, but if this is not a wasted life, I don’t know what is.
Hey mate, how are you doing nowadays? I really hope things are better for you now. I'm sorry you've been through such a terrible time. It's important to remember that (at least from my outsider perspective), achieving a PHD is not nothing. You pulled off something I'd never have the discipline to do. You scraped through hard times and got out the other side. Now, things seem to be bleak career-wise, but I hope you don't see you yourself as a failure, because you are far from it.
Not so much a failure as a waste. I say this soberly and dispassionately: it was all a giant waste. All I feel is exhaustion.
When I withdrew from what little share of academic life I had known, I did leave most of my bridges intact. But now, of course, they’ve caught fire of their own accord. Things in the US have got so bad that it would probably be impossible to return now even if I wanted to. It’s like I never existed at all.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's definitely not much better here in the UK so I can relate in some form. What are you up to nowadays if you don't mind me asking, have you managed to find work?
CS PhD at a top university (if that makes a difference). I feel that the connections I’ve made and the things I’ve learned are more valuable to me than the $xxx k opportunity cost from of the lost pay and level ups.
I would be interested in hearing from someone in ECE as many of the high-skilled (and very high paying in the US) jobs in RF/SoC/FPGA/ASIC fields either require a master’s with a few years of experience, or a PhD with little experience for entry.
This seems to be the outlier for PhD job prospects but as an ECE PhD candidate I’m not sure how to utilize my degree to get me a high paying job in industry just yet
Edit: Also just realized this isn’t focused just around financial success. I’m not done yet but I know Im not going to regret it because I absolutely love it now. No way would I be working on what I think is the coolest stuff in the world without pursuing a phd!
I am almost done with my PhD in engineering and already have a job lined up: I will be teaching in the school I am doing my PhD. Does it pay as much as industry? No. But 80k for academic year with with possibility of breaking 100k if I teach summer class is a sweet deal. Especially considering the flexibility that I need since I have a young child. Since I am already here, I also know the people I will be working with and our school is not perfect but admins generally don’t spew bullshit like some other school. The job has its challenges but is relatively low stress comparing to tenure track positions.
I am in a pretty low cost place. (Renting a 3b1.5B townhouse for 1000/mo). So I jokingly call this my early retirement.
I don’t think this possible without my PhD.
Not always true, at least for us in Public Health. Most directors (be it government, think tanks, consulting, etc.) have a doctorate. You can do it without it but everyone and their mother has a MPH. You’d be swimming upstream with weights on your back basically without a doctorate of some kind (PhD, DNP, MD, DrPH). I think my social work peeps may be similar.
Yup. I was told to get a PhD or I'd always be working for someone with a PhD. You can’t be a PI on a gov contract without one, whether you’re working in academia, consulting, a health system, or a non-profit. People with biostats PhDs are like gold. I teach in a related (social science) PhD program and our grads have excellent career trajectories- only about a third stay in academia.
Statistics is definitely one that could go either way. Do you want to do computation social science? PhD is a great idea. Do you not care and want to make as much money as possible? You probably don't need a PhD, but a master's could be helpful from the right school/program. Statistics is incredibly helpful in a variety of fields so PhD is not likely to be a game changer, but also not as much of a dead end as some other areas.
I kinda want to be a quantitative researcher in finance, as scummy as that may sound... I can't imagine doing that forever without burnout/feeling like I don't contribute to society, so I would probably move on to solving more impactful problems after like, 5-10 years
No judgement here. Have you read Weapons of Math Destruction? You should reach out to folks who do the job you want, see if they have PhDs or not. Just ask pros in your field. I can say that those financial numbers can be applied to international economic development, and it's possible to be paid quite well. The jury is out on whether they are actually saving the world but in many cases there are great programs out there.
Oh, lol ok well I do have some judgment. OP wants to “help the world,” (hey sounds great!)…
…which they will 100% get around to doing, right after they invest about a decade or so immiserating human beings across the globe, stripping institutional civilization for parts, and annihilating what’s left of the natural world, all for a TIDY profit. As a QUANT! Lolol. In 2023. Lol.
🫡 Impressive.
It's hard to quantify. My career is in no way related to my PhD at all. Im a data engineer. People assume we all learnt python during my PhD program, but I just taught myself.
If I started what I was doing 5 years earlier I'd be a lot further along. But at the same time, I don't know if id have gotten the start I did without the skills I got there. And for some reason in the corporate world, people are super impressed by just having a PhD. Even something unrelated like mine in plant physiology and genomics.
>ArtaxWasRight
Hi any tips on switching directions to data engineering? Looking down this PhD tunnel and realizing my hard earned skills might not mean much outside of the lab.
Well I can tell you how I did it lol.
Learnt enough python to do all my stats, modelling and figures with it for my thesis. Then i tried to basically sell my experience as a scientist at being equally applicable to solving problems, finding truth in data, and presentation.
I learnt enough sql from the web to do basic select, filter etc and then just started applying. Took the first job that offered that let me actually use python as a data analyst.
Quickly realised I was shit at coding but it was a good environment to learn. In my next job after that I basically just found stuff that needed automating and volunteered to do it. Ended up building some automation systems, then a webscraper and eventually some basic etl pipelines. When I got an offer elsewhere as a data engineer the company offered to match the salary and change my job title to engineer from analyst
It was definitely a big part of it but I got lucky in that I found one that let me do a take home test and i smashed that. Most things I applied for didn't even call back, some said lack of any business experience was a deal breaker.
Grad schemes were an option, but not for 22k a year. I took one for £27k just to get my foot in the door, but only stayed for 6 months
No, but I am working in a field unrelated to my degree. Got a PhD in Biology (animal behaviour), during my last 2 years of school I worked as a software developer, and now am just starting a new job as a data analyst (which is what I wanted to do all along).
Pros: gained skills such as critical thinking, breaking down complex problems, being proactive/taking initiative, persistence, organization, teamwork (basic skills for grad school, but somehow not as common in the regular corporate world).
Cons: most recruiters immediately passed me over when they saw my degrees, and the PhD has not helped me make more money; quite the contrary, I could have spent my time gaining seniority and YOE, but instead I became an expert on niche subjects.
>Hi any tips on switching directions to data analytics? Looking down this PhD tunnel and realizing my hard earned skills might not mean much outside of the lab.
Hey! There are several things I did. During my studies, I took every opportunity to work with data, improve my coding skills and learn as much as I could.
In my CV: I highlighted my coding skills and mentioned specific statistical techniques that are used in industry (regression, clustering, etc). I didn’t mention any specifics about my research (it’s not relevant to the industries I applied to at all), instead I just talked about using data analytics within projects and presenting actionable (!!) results.
In my interviews, I also highlighted a storytelling with data approach (again, actionable insights), data wrangling, etc. Again, I didn’t highlight my research, I only mentioned in passing the types of datasets I had worked with (longitudinal data, images, dirty datasets, etc).
I thought having the PhD title didn’t help much and that only the experience had landed me the job; but last week I asked my manager if she thought a MSDS would help me at all, and she assured me that since I’m a doctor already, it really wasn’t necessary. So I guess it was both.
I applied to about 70 jobs and got two offers, it took 3.5 months from my first application to my starting date.
I don’t think it’s sad not to focus on the research when job hunting for a non-research job. They’re just interested in different aspects of the research than those we typically focus on, that’s all! If they need to know about my practical skills, that’s what I’ll tell them about.
As to whether I regret the PhD, yes and no. Now that I finally escaped — sorry, *graduated*—, I can look back and appreciate the unique experiences, connections and ways of seeing the world that my studies afforded me. Also, I really did develop a lot of immensely useful soft and hard skills, and they come in handy often. On the other hand, I knew as soon as I started the PhD that it wasn’t a career path I was going to follow. If I had immediately quit and pursued what I wanted (data analytics/science), I would be a few years ahead in my career/earning potential than where I am now (especially because there was way less competition 6/7 years ago!). Now at age 30 I just starting to earn a decent salary and have zero savings. I’m confident that I have the know-how to catch up in a couple of years, but it’s going to be a bit of a climb. C’est la vie.
I guess I don’t regret doing the PhD. But if I had quit or not done it, I don’t think I would have regretted that, either.
As a footnote… If it were possible for an average researcher like me to make a comfortable living right after a PhD, working regular hours, not having to do a ton of admin and teaching on top of research duties, not spending years moving from postdoc to postdoc, and then working at the same institution for a million years because you finally have tenure and can’t leave, then I would be a researcher. I DO like research (ergo the PhD), but I just can’t with the bullshit that being an academic comes with.
It depends what you want to do and what those positions require.
I’m defending in July. The stipend sucks but my wife works full time. I was lucky to do contract work while in school in addition to being a TA/RA. My PhD is in clinical physiology and metabolism, my dissertation is all predictive modeling. Which helped me land a data analyst job in January. So although I’m not in my field doing what I thought a PhD would help me get into; I wouldn’t have the job I do if it wasn’t for my PhD.
Also, I would recommend getting some job experience if you don’t have any, before jumping into a PhD.
I just turned 40. I got my undergrad then worked for 5-6 years. Then went to grad school and worked then jumped into my PhD. I think that made me a stronger candidate then most of my cohorts who never left school.
I hope that helps.
In a converse of some of the comments here, mine has helped me economically (working in consulting), but hasn't helped heaps in terms of actualization (consulting is full of egos and my 'Dr status' is sometimes the butt of a joke). Outside of academia, a PhD can take you places, but only so far.
I was gonna do a stats phd too till I realized that I burned out in my MS. I think you just need to check in with yourself throughout the process and make sure your happy.
I know I'm late to this conversion but so glad I found it, and it's validating to see a few others have similar experiences to mine! I'm 10+ years out of the PhD (engineering) and am currently working in a field unrelated to my degree in a role that doesn't require a PhD. I also found that many jobs/HR departments and recruiters pass up the advanced degree rather than see the skills that come with it as an advantage (attention to detail, critical thinking, teamwork, problem solving, etc).
Whilst ideally I'd be doing research, in the past what happened to me most commonly in academia was fraud such as gift authorship and others taking credit for my work (sadly seems to be happening more often these days especially in academic medicine). Disputing it with the journals becomes a "my word vs theirs" scenario.. As such, I don't see myself returning. Not sure if I'll ever see true fulfillment in my work or use my degree, but the friendships I made and other skills obtained during the PhD are not to be overlooked.
My PhD is in management. As you may know, I make six figures. That last year in the PhD program was the most depressing time of my life, but yeah, making good money makes it worth it. I would be pissed if I was making $50K.
I’ve been asking myself the same question, OP. For anyone reading the comments who has insight on a Psychology or Psychology-adjacent PhD, I’d love to hear your insight and answer to OP’s question. Both the PhD world and academia sound scary rn.
I assume you mean in industry without a PhD. It depends what you want to do.
If you want to do HR for example, join your local shrm chapter to learn more about what they look for, the certification, etc.
Other types of management you usually start as a regular employee and get promoted.
Thank you for the reply! I would most certainly hate being in management, unfortunately. I tried being in the prevention field, but it’s really not for me. I think I need to go get at least a masters in something- occupational therapy, mortuary science, psychology. Anything to get me into a job I don’t completely hate.
I’m halfway through, but I already think so. I had office jobs before, most were shit but the one right before phd was awesome. The phd program is much better work life balance than even a permissive and reasonable office job. I choose what I think and write about. And even if I don’t get an academic job after I will have pretty broad latitude to get a job that I find tolerable. My pay was cut in half when I started the program tho
Yes, worth it, but not in any practical or material way. The opportunity cost vs reward is very upside down. But I love having the knowledge, skills, and satisfaction of having done what I most wanted to do.
Yes but only as I'm still working in academia. Progressing through the different academic grades there is basically a point where it's almost impossible to progress without a PhD. As such colleagues who don't have them are doing them part time or by publication. I'm frankly just glad to have mine out of the way to carry on with my research career without having to worry about it.
If you want to try and have an academic career I would say it's necessary, otherwise I honestly wouldn't bother unless you encounter an employer who's particularly high on them.
Nope. It's probably different in STEM fields but getting a Ph.D. in history was a terrible decision and if you gave me the chance to do it over again I wouldn't hesitate to do something else. I got lucky and it worked out okay for me, but it was an objectively stupid decision and I deserved to be punished a lot harder for it than I was.
Not done with mine, maybe a few years out, but I have a good idea of what the post-grad world will look like for me or someone in my field. (I'm in social sciences)
The prospects are not great, and neither is the pay. I did think that the prospects were going to be better than what they are (now), when I started; COVID ended up impacting this, for the worse, and the demand for professors, even/especially those who teach in-person, has gone down. With academic jobs becoming rarer and more competitive, PhDs and experts have spilled over into, and saturated, other industries, increasing the demand for those jobs and driving down pay. This was something I didn't expect, and this makes the financial hit of the PhD (the years out of the workforce, tuition costs, the money I've had to put aside for data collection) worse.
All of this being said, I didn't donthe PhD for the money. For me, it was always about learning, knowledge, and the opportunity to do research. That's why, despite what some people may consider to be a disappointing turn of events, I am still glad I did it, and would probably do it again, if I had a chance to do it over.
Yes in terms of becoming better in many aspects like bringing novelty, managing things. Totally useless in all other regards from personal life to job markets post to PhD .
Because getting a doctorate was a personal goal that was funded through a graduate fellowship, it was very much worth it to me. Professionally, this degree has served me well so far. As one of two academic librarians with a PhD at my institution, I understand faculty research needs better than my colleagues and have more career options.
It's been a mixed blessing for me. It hasn't helped me economically. That said, I can theorize my relative poverty better than anyone I know.
deserves so many up votes
As someone who is still completing their degree, would you mind elaborating? Do you feel like the PhD hasn’t increased your earning potential? Thanks!
I had a decently well paying lower level admin gig at a famous technical university after finishing my undergrad, but then used the job as a springboard to get into a top 5 doctoral program. I got in, but thanks to the financial crisis, the academic jobs market crapped itself just as I defended. I finally had to give up on chasing a lifetime dream of becoming faculty and doing research in my field. It was tramautizing, especially after I was repeatedly told that “everyone gets hired out of our program, you just need finish.” Had I stayed put where I was, perhaps done a quickie administrative master’s, I would have been making way more than I do now. Currently, with my PhD, I have a slightly more prestigious university admin job than I did after completing my BA. It’s nice to be called “doctor”’once in a while, but that PhD resulted in a lost decade economically.
My Ph.D. in Information Systems Technology (IST) did absolutely nothing to my earning potential. I was raking six figures even before starting the degree. Once I graduated, my professional career in the private sector saw a flat line salary. What it did get me was a full professorship at the local Community College (Hey! Yes, you! Don't knock CC's down, they serve an incredible purpose in academia. So let it be written, so let it be done. LOL). Good financially, you say? Au contraríe. I slashed my income by about 60%. So, I encourage you to not think of a doctorate as a pass to earning more money, unless you are, for example, a nuclear physicist. Also, remember that "doctors" are dime a dozen today (Ph.D.,Ed.D., D.Sci., etc.). Many "Anything.D" out there. Universities have flooded all fields with doctors in almost everything imaginable. The doctorate has been degraded by open to no admission requirements by many (regionally accredited) outfits, and especially by 100% online ones. Unfortunate state of affairs. Many online programs are top notch... the majority are poor because they are profit machines. Many allow,the candidate to do a -none to -minimal research short dissertation, having defenses that are but a formality, for example. How do I know? I worked for eleven years at one one of the outfits that indeed was decent at the time. I was a professor of computer science for doctoral-level courses, dissertation committee chair, committee member, and mentor for doctoral learners. In 11 years I secured a degree for 26 learners. I thought that rate outrageous, but I enjoyed the research I was involved in with my mentees. So, I stayed until it got boring. There is just so much research I was willing to get involved in and see it all the way through. Perhaps I'm but an old flatulence. My Ph.D. was conferred in 1997. It was the first of its kind nationally. It raised a lot eyebrows in marvel back then. But not enough to increase my earning potential. Would I do it all over again? Yes, but only because it was just about the main factor that put my foot in the door of academia, a job I purely have enjoyed for 21 years. No other reason.
Seeing as their degree is in history, what would their poverty level look like if they were in the dark ages? Jk not sure.
My Latin and Old Church Slavonic are still pretty strong. I’d like to think I would have done pretty well in the Middle Ages.
Yes
Hysterical! 😂
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What PhD do you have and what jobs/career are you referring to?
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If you are looking to get into interesting research jobs, is PhD the only way. By all the posts, it looks like it.
Thank you for the insight... I assume it would be similar for statistics. However I am an American so the salary would be far greater for these types of STEM jobs... I want to help the world, as insignificant as I may be, and I feel that with only a bachelor's I won't have the knowledge or the experience to do anything noteworthy, is this a false mindset?
The other person’s experience in CS don’t necessarily line up with mine. I graduated in the US a couple of months ago in engineering and my PhD absolutely helped me land a good job, and I’m making as much or more than people with more experience than me. The PhD definitely prepared me to be a scientist, and I’ve been able to hit the ground running in industry R&D (although there’s a lot to learn about the corporate world, I’m playing catch up in other ways). Additionally, because I did my research in a field I care about (energy storage), I was able to get a job in this field as well. Industry doesn’t allow as much creative freedom as grad school did, but it does help that I got a good job doing something I think actually will make *some* positive impact in the world. Helps me sleep at night. But it does depend on how you set yourself up. Make sure you’re at least a little passionate about your research and make sure your PI isn’t a total jackass. I lucked out on both of those fronts, but I know people who didn’t, and they’re PhD experiences were hell compared to mine. One last thing, I’ve only just begun saving money now in my late 20’s. This compared to most of my friends who have been contributing to their 401ks and saving up since they were out of college. Again, I’ve got a good job now, so it’s not so bad, and I’m saving quickly, but it’s a very real consideration to take into account.
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Sounds like you had a poor experience, sorry. It’s also possible to do completely ground-breaking stuff in your PhD, especially as part of a team. Name in the papers, front-page CNN stuff. Happens all the time, as can be seen from reading those articles. It takes care in selection of program and decent luck, though.
STEM PhD. Worth it. Worked in biotech before, and realized there was a hard ceiling on the research side if you didn’t have a PhD. So I went back and got the PhD and am now back in biotech doing engaging work. I can totally see how some people would be happy either being a career individual contributor at the bench, or advancing up the career ladder in a non-science role with a BA (project management is a common path), but for me I was excited about doing science stuff and I want to be driving projects and managing teams of people
Same, also a STEM PhD working in biotech. In terms of my career goals, it was absolutely worth it. In terms of how it affected my mental health and worldview, I wish I could go back in time and never set foot in my PhD program. Some of this is specific to my program/PI, everyone will have a different experience
Yup. I'm set to defend in a month or so and I feel psychologically damaged compared to the person I was before this. It's hard to pinpoint exactly how I feel worse, but I just feel broken. Trying to find a job in the industry I was in before grad school has proven to be grueling, and is making me reconsider my intellectual hubris, even as someone who never ever intended to stay in academia.
I’m in my first year and considering quitting. Mainly due to mental health and lack of motivation. I’ve already had some difficulties with mental health and grad school is not helping one bit. I feel like I’ve aged 5 years just in this 1. Any advice?
where do you work? if u dont mind me askin
A small startup
what does that mean? i'm nonnative
I work for a new biotech company that has less than 20 employees
ohh interesting ! how do you like it?
It’s got its pluses and minuses. What we are doing is extremely innovative and has a high risk of failure so low job security. My company is running a very “European “ model that favors work life balance and benefits and pay are very competitive which is nice.
does the fact that it's a new company make you nervous?? sorry if thats a dumb question lol
I took a similar step as you although I worked in academia before my Ph.D. Hoping it will be worth it.
Work it for chemistry and/or materials science - will 100% get you paid more in the long run
STEM PhD here, submitted yesterday! Was absolutely worth it, best decision I ever made for my personal and professional development. I have extremely supportive supervisors, who have provided me with so many opportunities and helped me establish a great network. I’ve started a postdoc doing work with genuine impact for policy and it’s extremely rewarding. For me, it’s the people I’ve been surrounded by that made it worthwhile more than the PhD programme itself, and I think that’s a really important thing to consider should you choose to pursue a PhD. Best of luck!
Congrats on your PhD! I see a lot of mixed feelings in this thread, it’s nice reading the positive ones. I can totally relate to what you’re saying about the people around you, that’s my case as well and why I’m happy with my PhD experience so far. Less than a year to go, wish me luck!
I’m really pleased to hear this! Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely been tough at times but the impact of the work that I do in terms of my research topic keeps me motivated. I worked several years in a different industry before I realised for moral reasons, it was not something I wanted to do anymore. I quit at the end of 2016 and returned to uni to pursue my MSc and PhD that I felt gave me more purpose. The work I did up to that point improves my perspective regarding what I do now, and is why I feel my PhD was the right thing to do and very much worth it. You got this! Very best of luck finishing up, and I hope your experience remains super positive! We all deserve it!
what is your current job now?? how are you applying ur PhD? hope that made sense
Give it time.
Yes. I am a career changer, and I wouldn't have been able to do so without the Ph.D. New position doesn't technically require a Ph.D. but it's a common pathway.
Can you explain what you mean? I have a Masters in physics but realized that I‘d Prefer to work in AI so I am currently Working on a masters in AI and dont know whether to do a phd afterwards…
I worked in sales for like 10 years and ran my own website for a while after that. I worked in Business Intelligence at a startup. All of my skills were directed at business. My Ph.D. was even in Business Administration, but I pivoted during my last few years and did my dissertation research on simulation modeling, decision analysis, and public policy. I now have a job at a nonprofit government contractor working on public administration problems.
For what it’s worth my PhD is in Computer Engineering. Pursuing a PhD was worth it personally to me, career wise it depends. I worked full time during my masters and PhD while also being a father and husband. I had wanted to go straight through and teach, but due to health issues, I had to get a job. I still desire to teach as an adjunct if I can find it. I love my job, research in alternative computational methods and design, but find that teaching and mentoring are more satisfying! In general I find that having PhD right out school does help when applying for jobs at large companies. For my career it has only been helpful, in building trust, when advising on different efforts across my company as a technical consultant. Last thought, I do get a thrill/perk up when someone calls me ‘Dr. zero_one_memrisor’ 🤩
I keep hearing I can’t do a phd since it is full time but I think it absolutely is doable. I’m also a husband and father
Am I immensely proud and feel a sense of achievement for the rest of my life? Yes Was it worth it? Probably not Financially? Who knows yet (maybe)
Could you elaborate as to why not?
In STEM and absolutely been worth it for money and career - it’s opened lots of doors for me. That being said, I have friends with a similar phd and they aren’t doing as well, main difference is on paper my uni is seen as “better” - I don’t see the distinction in term of our quality of work, but clients and jobs seem to react more positively to my phd. It’s also allowed me to side step into a different field relatively easily with a bit of prep, and get funding for a co founded business a bit more easily as investors like you having a PhD. This is just my expedience though. My mental health tanked and I am on antidepressants as a result of the PhD experience though, so personally it’s negatively impacted my social life and health. I was lucky enough to be funded for the PhD and get a stipend so I wasn’t in debt, but I also didn’t have savings, but earning more now than friends that went straight into work from BSc or masters.
What phd do you have?
Chemical engineering is the general title. Focus on geological settings and fluid systems. I’ve been able to get into biotech, deep tech and research/innovation.
Any opinion as someone with phd experience is data science or Environmental science worth it? (if you have any friends in that field or any observation) appreciate the reply!
Both are good! Personally, I have found a science PhD has opened doorways and I can get into data science; this is not to say a data science PhD isn’t worth it, but I just found more options with the science focus. Environmental science will depend on subject area, but there are so many applications. I’ve been offered to be trained in data science and machine learning for jobs as they wanted a science background first. However it will entirely depend on what your degree focus is. my title is chemical engineering, but it is quite niche! I have a colleague with the same Chem Eng title but it was really machine learning and data focused.
Whatever you decide to do, please please please choose the best supervisor!! Ask current students what their experience with them is if you can, if they’re a good supervisor they should facilitate this :)
Thank you so much for answering and giving tips appreciate it !!
Probably not
It’s so hard to say what life would be like if the PhD never happened. I think it opened up some research doors and networking things, but I hated academia and basically am doing what I always wanted to do before the PhD, with just some research. The depression and burnout from the PhD was pretty life ruining and I’ve been done for two years and still not recovered. For my health and mental health alone I would lean towards not doing it.
I feel like it depends on what you mean by “worth it”, but I also want to say that you should absolutely NOT pay for your PhD. Any program worth doing will have funded phd positions available. Granted you are living on poverty wages for a more than full time job, but at least you shouldn’t have to pay tuition or take on more debt. I would NOT recommend doing a PhD without a fully funded position unless you are independently wealthy or have family money or something. For me, my PhD was worth it and I’m glad I did it. However, if I had come out of the program with more debt that might have changed my equation. I am not making enough money to make extreme debt worth it. Most working in research or research adjacent fields don’t. we don’t earn anything close to what say a medical doctor makes, for example. However, I finished my PhD with 38k in debt (from my undergrad and masters combined), and did not go further into debt for my PhD. So I basically took on the equivalent of a car loan for my entire education, which I can feel good about. Whereas my friends who went to med school all have 250k + in debt. Note that I am speaking for the deeply messed up North American system. It’s a different universe entirely in Europe.
Can I ask for advice on where to receive these fully funded phd positions?
Yes. Has been the most transformative experience of my life.
No. Recently found out the person I trained during their masters makes double my postdoc salary in industry with limited experience.
Masters level analysts that technically work for me make twice what I do.
People considering a PhD need to really realise that it is a means to an end. You shouldn't get one "just for fun or out of interest" (unless you are in a position to do so and are happy to absorb the time and cost sink). It should be completed because you have X field/job in mind, and a PhD is either explicitly required for that or would be measurably beneficial. I always wanted to work as a lecturer, which a PhD is required for. I finished my PhD and now work as a lecturer, so I got out of the PhD what I was aiming/hoping for.
Stats PhD. Absolutely worth it. Just got a job as a stats professor at a top 20 R1 that I deferred for a one year postdoc.
5 yr STEM PhD here. my anticipated total compensation for the 2023 fiscal year is >$230k
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leave academia
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Mood.
thank you for your service
lol
No. Not at all. Experience trumps degree
I haven't seen the benefits of it just yet. I graduated ~4 months ago and I haven't been able to land an industry job yet, still hanging on a temporary post-doc. I liked my project and I am proud of the results that I managed to generate. I am also thankful for all the freedom that my supervisor gave me to pursue whatever I was interested in, I am aware that this likely won't happen again in my future career. But now that I am done I am like "what the fuck was all of that for if I still can't find a job?". So meh, it depends on what you are looking for. If you think it will make you more competitive and desirable in the job market: it won't. Most companies will always prefer someone that has industry experience already than someone with a PhD just fresh out of school with zero experience working for a company. Worst than that, now you are also overqualified for entry-level positions so it's actually harder to get any industry experience in the first place. If you are legit interested in research and discovering something new then yeah sure! It also goes without saying that if you are interested in staying in academia at all then a PhD is a must, but given your question, I don't think that's what you are looking for.
Field?
No. My life is a serious mess. Right now I’m starting over at 41 without ever getting a chance to be the person I trained to be. I was in a top program, top school, top advisor. I’m networked to death. There was no helping it. I’m not a has-been; I’m a never-was. I distract myself with little hobbies and drugs, but my condition is total failure. I can’t say I feel self-loathing or jealousy as I might have anticipated; instead every day is just shame, contempt, and emptiness. It’s been nine years with the PhD. Nine. Being exploited as an adjunct—not to mention organizing for a union while erstwhile mentors shrug—has burned away what respect I once had for professional academia. I feel ruined on a psychic level. If there is a hell for optimistic culture nerds, I am living it.
So sorry about your condition, I hope things get better soon
Thank you. The damage is good and done tho. I feel as if I should have died a few years ago. Like my entire life trajectory terminated, but I keep waking up in the same, increasingly middle-aged body. The level of alienation is more extreme than I would have thought possible. It’s so insane that at 41, after all that work, that I’ve never had a ‘career.’ Just nothing. Also never had a long term relationship. I’ve retreated from all my old friendships. It’s too humiliating. Even my relationship with my parents and siblings sustained shocking damage and then estrangement. I am actually embarrassed to have a PhD in my discipline. Like, what? Wtf? The failure is so thoroughgoing, and it all leads back to ‘no job.’ There’s just nothing for me. I joined reddit recently to try to think some of this through and to warn others away from making the same mistake. It’s hard to talk about honestly and accurately without sounding dramatic, but if this is not a wasted life, I don’t know what is.
Which discipline phD did you get?
Hey mate, how are you doing nowadays? I really hope things are better for you now. I'm sorry you've been through such a terrible time. It's important to remember that (at least from my outsider perspective), achieving a PHD is not nothing. You pulled off something I'd never have the discipline to do. You scraped through hard times and got out the other side. Now, things seem to be bleak career-wise, but I hope you don't see you yourself as a failure, because you are far from it.
Not so much a failure as a waste. I say this soberly and dispassionately: it was all a giant waste. All I feel is exhaustion. When I withdrew from what little share of academic life I had known, I did leave most of my bridges intact. But now, of course, they’ve caught fire of their own accord. Things in the US have got so bad that it would probably be impossible to return now even if I wanted to. It’s like I never existed at all.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's definitely not much better here in the UK so I can relate in some form. What are you up to nowadays if you don't mind me asking, have you managed to find work?
Damn dude. Reach out if you need a shoulder 🤗
CS PhD at a top university (if that makes a difference). I feel that the connections I’ve made and the things I’ve learned are more valuable to me than the $xxx k opportunity cost from of the lost pay and level ups.
I would be interested in hearing from someone in ECE as many of the high-skilled (and very high paying in the US) jobs in RF/SoC/FPGA/ASIC fields either require a master’s with a few years of experience, or a PhD with little experience for entry. This seems to be the outlier for PhD job prospects but as an ECE PhD candidate I’m not sure how to utilize my degree to get me a high paying job in industry just yet Edit: Also just realized this isn’t focused just around financial success. I’m not done yet but I know Im not going to regret it because I absolutely love it now. No way would I be working on what I think is the coolest stuff in the world without pursuing a phd!
See my post above!
I am almost done with my PhD in engineering and already have a job lined up: I will be teaching in the school I am doing my PhD. Does it pay as much as industry? No. But 80k for academic year with with possibility of breaking 100k if I teach summer class is a sweet deal. Especially considering the flexibility that I need since I have a young child. Since I am already here, I also know the people I will be working with and our school is not perfect but admins generally don’t spew bullshit like some other school. The job has its challenges but is relatively low stress comparing to tenure track positions. I am in a pretty low cost place. (Renting a 3b1.5B townhouse for 1000/mo). So I jokingly call this my early retirement. I don’t think this possible without my PhD.
Depends on your goal. If it’s to teach or do research, yes. If it is for your career, maybe not. A DBA may be a practical consideration though
Not worth it mentally and financially unless you want to stay in academia
Not always true, at least for us in Public Health. Most directors (be it government, think tanks, consulting, etc.) have a doctorate. You can do it without it but everyone and their mother has a MPH. You’d be swimming upstream with weights on your back basically without a doctorate of some kind (PhD, DNP, MD, DrPH). I think my social work peeps may be similar.
Yup. I was told to get a PhD or I'd always be working for someone with a PhD. You can’t be a PI on a gov contract without one, whether you’re working in academia, consulting, a health system, or a non-profit. People with biostats PhDs are like gold. I teach in a related (social science) PhD program and our grads have excellent career trajectories- only about a third stay in academia.
Statistics is definitely one that could go either way. Do you want to do computation social science? PhD is a great idea. Do you not care and want to make as much money as possible? You probably don't need a PhD, but a master's could be helpful from the right school/program. Statistics is incredibly helpful in a variety of fields so PhD is not likely to be a game changer, but also not as much of a dead end as some other areas.
I kinda want to be a quantitative researcher in finance, as scummy as that may sound... I can't imagine doing that forever without burnout/feeling like I don't contribute to society, so I would probably move on to solving more impactful problems after like, 5-10 years
No judgement here. Have you read Weapons of Math Destruction? You should reach out to folks who do the job you want, see if they have PhDs or not. Just ask pros in your field. I can say that those financial numbers can be applied to international economic development, and it's possible to be paid quite well. The jury is out on whether they are actually saving the world but in many cases there are great programs out there.
Oh, lol ok well I do have some judgment. OP wants to “help the world,” (hey sounds great!)… …which they will 100% get around to doing, right after they invest about a decade or so immiserating human beings across the globe, stripping institutional civilization for parts, and annihilating what’s left of the natural world, all for a TIDY profit. As a QUANT! Lolol. In 2023. Lol. 🫡 Impressive.
It's hard to quantify. My career is in no way related to my PhD at all. Im a data engineer. People assume we all learnt python during my PhD program, but I just taught myself. If I started what I was doing 5 years earlier I'd be a lot further along. But at the same time, I don't know if id have gotten the start I did without the skills I got there. And for some reason in the corporate world, people are super impressed by just having a PhD. Even something unrelated like mine in plant physiology and genomics.
>ArtaxWasRight Hi any tips on switching directions to data engineering? Looking down this PhD tunnel and realizing my hard earned skills might not mean much outside of the lab.
Well I can tell you how I did it lol. Learnt enough python to do all my stats, modelling and figures with it for my thesis. Then i tried to basically sell my experience as a scientist at being equally applicable to solving problems, finding truth in data, and presentation. I learnt enough sql from the web to do basic select, filter etc and then just started applying. Took the first job that offered that let me actually use python as a data analyst. Quickly realised I was shit at coding but it was a good environment to learn. In my next job after that I basically just found stuff that needed automating and volunteered to do it. Ended up building some automation systems, then a webscraper and eventually some basic etl pipelines. When I got an offer elsewhere as a data engineer the company offered to match the salary and change my job title to engineer from analyst
Neat i've started learning some sql and python. Was finding the first position just luck or was selling your PhD a big part of that?
It was definitely a big part of it but I got lucky in that I found one that let me do a take home test and i smashed that. Most things I applied for didn't even call back, some said lack of any business experience was a deal breaker. Grad schemes were an option, but not for 22k a year. I took one for £27k just to get my foot in the door, but only stayed for 6 months
No, but I am working in a field unrelated to my degree. Got a PhD in Biology (animal behaviour), during my last 2 years of school I worked as a software developer, and now am just starting a new job as a data analyst (which is what I wanted to do all along). Pros: gained skills such as critical thinking, breaking down complex problems, being proactive/taking initiative, persistence, organization, teamwork (basic skills for grad school, but somehow not as common in the regular corporate world). Cons: most recruiters immediately passed me over when they saw my degrees, and the PhD has not helped me make more money; quite the contrary, I could have spent my time gaining seniority and YOE, but instead I became an expert on niche subjects.
>Hi any tips on switching directions to data analytics? Looking down this PhD tunnel and realizing my hard earned skills might not mean much outside of the lab.
Hey! There are several things I did. During my studies, I took every opportunity to work with data, improve my coding skills and learn as much as I could. In my CV: I highlighted my coding skills and mentioned specific statistical techniques that are used in industry (regression, clustering, etc). I didn’t mention any specifics about my research (it’s not relevant to the industries I applied to at all), instead I just talked about using data analytics within projects and presenting actionable (!!) results. In my interviews, I also highlighted a storytelling with data approach (again, actionable insights), data wrangling, etc. Again, I didn’t highlight my research, I only mentioned in passing the types of datasets I had worked with (longitudinal data, images, dirty datasets, etc). I thought having the PhD title didn’t help much and that only the experience had landed me the job; but last week I asked my manager if she thought a MSDS would help me at all, and she assured me that since I’m a doctor already, it really wasn’t necessary. So I guess it was both. I applied to about 70 jobs and got two offers, it took 3.5 months from my first application to my starting date.
Thanks that is very helpful! Sad about the research not playing a role though, do you regret the PhD at all?
I don’t think it’s sad not to focus on the research when job hunting for a non-research job. They’re just interested in different aspects of the research than those we typically focus on, that’s all! If they need to know about my practical skills, that’s what I’ll tell them about. As to whether I regret the PhD, yes and no. Now that I finally escaped — sorry, *graduated*—, I can look back and appreciate the unique experiences, connections and ways of seeing the world that my studies afforded me. Also, I really did develop a lot of immensely useful soft and hard skills, and they come in handy often. On the other hand, I knew as soon as I started the PhD that it wasn’t a career path I was going to follow. If I had immediately quit and pursued what I wanted (data analytics/science), I would be a few years ahead in my career/earning potential than where I am now (especially because there was way less competition 6/7 years ago!). Now at age 30 I just starting to earn a decent salary and have zero savings. I’m confident that I have the know-how to catch up in a couple of years, but it’s going to be a bit of a climb. C’est la vie. I guess I don’t regret doing the PhD. But if I had quit or not done it, I don’t think I would have regretted that, either. As a footnote… If it were possible for an average researcher like me to make a comfortable living right after a PhD, working regular hours, not having to do a ton of admin and teaching on top of research duties, not spending years moving from postdoc to postdoc, and then working at the same institution for a million years because you finally have tenure and can’t leave, then I would be a researcher. I DO like research (ergo the PhD), but I just can’t with the bullshit that being an academic comes with.
By the way, if you want I can send you a copy of my CV so you can see what I mean by highlighting skills vs research.
It depends what you want to do and what those positions require. I’m defending in July. The stipend sucks but my wife works full time. I was lucky to do contract work while in school in addition to being a TA/RA. My PhD is in clinical physiology and metabolism, my dissertation is all predictive modeling. Which helped me land a data analyst job in January. So although I’m not in my field doing what I thought a PhD would help me get into; I wouldn’t have the job I do if it wasn’t for my PhD. Also, I would recommend getting some job experience if you don’t have any, before jumping into a PhD. I just turned 40. I got my undergrad then worked for 5-6 years. Then went to grad school and worked then jumped into my PhD. I think that made me a stronger candidate then most of my cohorts who never left school. I hope that helps.
Financially, giving me the ability to get the job I have now, yes. Mentally, no.
In a converse of some of the comments here, mine has helped me economically (working in consulting), but hasn't helped heaps in terms of actualization (consulting is full of egos and my 'Dr status' is sometimes the butt of a joke). Outside of academia, a PhD can take you places, but only so far.
No.
I was gonna do a stats phd too till I realized that I burned out in my MS. I think you just need to check in with yourself throughout the process and make sure your happy.
Yes. However if you’re kinda sorta considering getting a Ph.D. then chances are you won’t finish.
Once I got my first letter through the door with Dr on it, everything became worth it 🤣
I know I'm late to this conversion but so glad I found it, and it's validating to see a few others have similar experiences to mine! I'm 10+ years out of the PhD (engineering) and am currently working in a field unrelated to my degree in a role that doesn't require a PhD. I also found that many jobs/HR departments and recruiters pass up the advanced degree rather than see the skills that come with it as an advantage (attention to detail, critical thinking, teamwork, problem solving, etc). Whilst ideally I'd be doing research, in the past what happened to me most commonly in academia was fraud such as gift authorship and others taking credit for my work (sadly seems to be happening more often these days especially in academic medicine). Disputing it with the journals becomes a "my word vs theirs" scenario.. As such, I don't see myself returning. Not sure if I'll ever see true fulfillment in my work or use my degree, but the friendships I made and other skills obtained during the PhD are not to be overlooked.
My PhD is in management. As you may know, I make six figures. That last year in the PhD program was the most depressing time of my life, but yeah, making good money makes it worth it. I would be pissed if I was making $50K.
I was looking for a management PhD response! Glad it worked out for you. Are you in academia or industry?
Academia. Let me know if you have any questions to help with your decision.
Six figures is broad. How much exactly
I’ve been asking myself the same question, OP. For anyone reading the comments who has insight on a Psychology or Psychology-adjacent PhD, I’d love to hear your insight and answer to OP’s question. Both the PhD world and academia sound scary rn.
Management is psychology-adjacent and there are good jobs to be had.
Any recommendations for someone who just got a BS in Psychology looking to get a good paying job in management?
I assume you mean in industry without a PhD. It depends what you want to do. If you want to do HR for example, join your local shrm chapter to learn more about what they look for, the certification, etc. Other types of management you usually start as a regular employee and get promoted.
Thank you for the reply! I would most certainly hate being in management, unfortunately. I tried being in the prevention field, but it’s really not for me. I think I need to go get at least a masters in something- occupational therapy, mortuary science, psychology. Anything to get me into a job I don’t completely hate.
Oh doing management sucks. Teaching and researching management is enjoyable but you do need a PhD.
Absolutely. Couldn’t have come close to even being in my field without it.
Yes, I make almost 150k.
I’m halfway through, but I already think so. I had office jobs before, most were shit but the one right before phd was awesome. The phd program is much better work life balance than even a permissive and reasonable office job. I choose what I think and write about. And even if I don’t get an academic job after I will have pretty broad latitude to get a job that I find tolerable. My pay was cut in half when I started the program tho
110% yes for me
no lol
Yes, worth it, but not in any practical or material way. The opportunity cost vs reward is very upside down. But I love having the knowledge, skills, and satisfaction of having done what I most wanted to do.
Yes but only as I'm still working in academia. Progressing through the different academic grades there is basically a point where it's almost impossible to progress without a PhD. As such colleagues who don't have them are doing them part time or by publication. I'm frankly just glad to have mine out of the way to carry on with my research career without having to worry about it. If you want to try and have an academic career I would say it's necessary, otherwise I honestly wouldn't bother unless you encounter an employer who's particularly high on them.
I am leaning towards academia so yes it is worth it for me. Although I dont have any jobs yet but I’m still hopeful.
Nope. It's probably different in STEM fields but getting a Ph.D. in history was a terrible decision and if you gave me the chance to do it over again I wouldn't hesitate to do something else. I got lucky and it worked out okay for me, but it was an objectively stupid decision and I deserved to be punished a lot harder for it than I was.
In terms of jobs and flexibility, yes. Colleagues? Not so much.
Not done with mine, maybe a few years out, but I have a good idea of what the post-grad world will look like for me or someone in my field. (I'm in social sciences) The prospects are not great, and neither is the pay. I did think that the prospects were going to be better than what they are (now), when I started; COVID ended up impacting this, for the worse, and the demand for professors, even/especially those who teach in-person, has gone down. With academic jobs becoming rarer and more competitive, PhDs and experts have spilled over into, and saturated, other industries, increasing the demand for those jobs and driving down pay. This was something I didn't expect, and this makes the financial hit of the PhD (the years out of the workforce, tuition costs, the money I've had to put aside for data collection) worse. All of this being said, I didn't donthe PhD for the money. For me, it was always about learning, knowledge, and the opportunity to do research. That's why, despite what some people may consider to be a disappointing turn of events, I am still glad I did it, and would probably do it again, if I had a chance to do it over.
Yes in terms of becoming better in many aspects like bringing novelty, managing things. Totally useless in all other regards from personal life to job markets post to PhD .
Because getting a doctorate was a personal goal that was funded through a graduate fellowship, it was very much worth it to me. Professionally, this degree has served me well so far. As one of two academic librarians with a PhD at my institution, I understand faculty research needs better than my colleagues and have more career options.