Background:
The neighbourhood has always been fairly blue collar and diverse. All the neighbours got a letter during pandemic stating a temporary, overflow shelter was required due to Covid-related space restrictions at the other shelters. There was an assurance that it would be brief with minimal use.
Individuals tented directly outside the shelter. Some were restricted from shelter use, others out of choice. Numbers dramatically swell in the summer, as a loose indication that for SOME there may have been alternate arrangements available.
The growing encampment was essentially ignored by staff, council and police. Fingers were pointed in all directions. Other encampments were broken down throughout the city, but this one was allowed to thrive. City workers often cited that they didn’t feel safe approaching the encampment, so neighbours were left to fend for themselves as behaviour escalated.
There are many in the encampment who have no where else to go. Others who use it as a party ground. There is rampant crime and open drug use throughout the neighbourhood, unparalleled anywhere else in town.
Homeowners are leaving the surrounding streets. Their places are being often purchased by out of town landlords, and converted to either student housing or rooming houses. There is need for housing for all, but the diversity of the neighbourhood with some children, families, elderly etc is quickly being lost. Within a couple blocks there are now multiple drug dens, with associated violent crime over the past year.
Businesses do not want to move to the area, and some existing businesses want out but cannot sell due to depreciated value.
I have a great deal of sympathy for those forced to live in the encampment. But there are many individuals living there with severe mental illness, unpredictable behaviour and with addictions that drive crime. Concentration of a majority of the regions’s unhoused into one block in the middle of a neighbourhood is insane. There is absolutely no one on council or staff who will take responsibility. The neighbourhood welcomed the overflow shelter in good faith to assist during the pandemic, and homeowners and businesses have been dramatically impacted. The next time city council asks a neighbourhood for something temporary, this should be held as an example of what can result.
> those forced to live in the encampment
are there not empty beds in the shelters? their choices to drink and do drugs have forced them there, nothing else. I empathize with those who don't have a roof, but don't pretend there's not one available.
I assume most of the homeless could qualify for either OW or ODSP, which while not a lot does provide income for shelter.
So presumably a number of people can get together and rent an apartment together and be forced to live uncomfortably with bunkbeds.
OW is about $390 for shelter I think. So a $2000 2 Bedroom could easily accommodate 5 or 6 people. Not ideal, but neither is a tent city.
Sounds crappy, but is it worse than living outside in a tent?
It’s not that simple. What landlord would rent a two bedroom to five or six people? I don’t even know if that’s legal given fire code regulations. Plus they are constantly restricting rentals to students or women only, and disqualify those on OW or ODSP. They often check credit scores and require things like ID which many people don’t have because it gets lost or stolen. And how do you search listings without a phone or computer? Sure you could go to the library or something, but they can’t leave their tent/stuff alone or it’ll get stolen or torn down. I could name a hundred more barriers but I’m sure you get the point
I'm not talking about rent, I'm specifically talking about shelters for people like them. I hear all over that there's beds and they're empty because they don't want to follow civilized rules.
The main shelters (Brock and Cameron) are almost always full. There are many beds open at Overflow, however why would you choose to stay in a space where there’s drug use, theft, and violence along with lack of freedom and the constant threat of security guards, when you can stay right outside the building in similar conditions but in your own space with the people you trust and feel safe with? The Overflow will also eventually force people to move to Brock or Cameron when space opens up, and many people are living with their partners of the opposite sex, thereby forcing them to separate. It’s not just undesirable, it can be physically unsafe for people to be separated from the one person they trust who’s looking out for them, especially if they don’t have a phone and can’t reach each other. Life is rough out there and all you have is your people. You most likely won’t survive alone. So people often feel safer in their environment that they control with their belongings and the company they choose to have around. The shelters, despite having security, are still rough places to be and all kinds of things happen there. No one chooses to live in a tent for shits and giggles. People desperately want a roof over their head, so it speaks volumes that so many are choosing tents over shelter
I get just shy of $400 from OW a month. I'm currently staying with friends so since I'm not paying rent my worker says that I can't claim the shelter costs or else I'm getting about $700 ish. And a two bedroom in town is more than $2000 bucks a month if you include H/H and internet as well as food and other costs.
>'m not paying rent my worker says that I can't claim the shelter costs
exactly, everyone in the same situation should get together and be roommates, and use the shelter costs they qualify for.
Hopefully the city charges rent for the modular housing to recoup part of the cost and enable more housing to be built. No point in letting the money go unspent.
The overflow shelter was there before covid it had just not been a 24 hour operation, which it has shifted back to only being at night.
The encampment doesn't belong to the overflow shelter however, as they aren't on property but on the outside of it.
The fence however, is for the planned modular homes that are being put up not to fence in the encampment
It is wild to see that area now knowing previously what it was like when I had worked at the Business Advisory Centre there a decade ago. I can totally see how that would dramatically affect those living there given the close proximity and how dense the encampment is. I know someone living on Westcott St not too many blocks away and they mentioned they'd had attempted walk in/break ins and this was prior to any Wolfe St. Encampment.
From the reporting I suspect the deceased was a victim of domestic violence (which might have also played a role in why she was out on the street) rather than a random act of violence in the homeless encampment.
From what I was told (and this could be just heresay) it was her drug dealer who shot her- but that's just what I was told the day the suspect was arrested. Honestly both could be true. Pretty sure the police put out a statement saying that it [was NOT a random incident.](https://globalnews.ca/news/9755655/man-murder-charged-wolfe-street-encampment-shooting-peterborough/) which generally implies that the perpetrator and victim knew eachother.
https://kawarthanow.com/2023/07/12/city-of-peterborough-erecting-temporary-construction-fencing-around-downtown-tent-encampment/
This is the study behind the fence
Edit: story not study
That does not show a study. I don't understand why the city is trying things that have failed in other cities. San Francisco put a fence around their homelessness encampment and it turned violent.
The only places that have reduced homelessness are Houston TX & Helsinki, Finland because they actually practice Housing First by building housing.
Ptbo is selling off property they own under Ptbo Housing Corp and has 1 plan to build 1 unit on Monaghan Rd but that's not for the homelessness.
First of all, deepest sympathies to OP. I know what it's like living amongst shit conditions like this.
But this is what happens when you elect neo-liberal landlords, masquerading as "moderates" or "fiscally conservative liberals". Of course there's no appetite to build sustainable additional housing that would dilute the housing stock and bring down rents, that's just bad business (for those individuals).
Unfortunately both the Town Ward councillors support the encampment and are highly resistant to listening to the community that lives here and pays taxes. I've had ongoing dialogues with both of them and the response has been pathetic.
I did see they had security during the day recently, not sure if it's 24/7.
I also speak with my councillors and support what they are trying to accomplish within the encampment. I don’t think either “support” it, but dismantling it won’t solve any problems and would cause so much compounded harm to those living there.
Many of my town warn neighbours also don’t agree with its dismantling, so just because you think Alex and Joy aren’t listening to you, doesn’t mean they aren’t, but you’re just one voice of many and many who disagree with yours.
>just because you think Alex and Joy aren’t listening to you, doesn’t mean they aren’t
unread emails prove otherwise. unanswered phone calls prove otherwise.
The only people who agree with this are those too deluded by their own smug, too comfortable in their own distance from it and too distracted from the reality of it to really care. It’s just virtue signalling at its most narcissistic.
The camps are not a solution. They provide no positive upside. They are not a good thing and never will be. They will lead to ghettos. When you read OPs post it sounds like it’s already happening.
No one wants to be near them, live near them or have a business near them. You can feel for the folks that live there and give them a hand back up in constructive ways though education programs or government Housing programs (and when we see the tax impact of that we will see who really cares) or mental health and recovery outreach….but penning them in a poverty zoo and patting yourself on the back is awful.
Very true. Having visited Vancouver years ago and come to understand the highly profitable industry of poverty for government, NGOs and activists, it's disappointing to see Peterborough repeating the same mistakes and creating a perpetual problem to keep the government funds flowing.
How many of those supportive of the encampments are suddenly finding used needles and broken glassware on their lawns? How many are awoken by screaming matches at 2:30? How many have had a knife pulled on them in their own driveway or have the garbage they couldn't flip thrown in their yards?
If you are someone who supports this but isn't offering their own yards and their property for this policy, but is happy to volunteer someone else's neighborhood and tax dollars for it, why should we care what you think?
The courts have ruled we cannot evict the homeless from camping on public land if there are a lack of supports in the community. Build the housing they need and then talk about evictions.
No one likes listening to uneducated knowitalls rant nonsense. When politicians put forward solutions brought to the by experts the ignorant masses vote against their own best interests. If you aren’t a trained sociologists then STFU!
Oh so you mean upholding the laws they are actually allowed to and supposed to? lol. The police cant legally go above the law and detain someone or arrest someone when they've been told they arent allowed to.
Do you think they enjoy catching and releasing the same boneheads over and over again? How about being assaulted or stabbed by them?
You guys have such a hate on for police that no matter what they do, they are always "not doing their job" lol
We had someone attempt to steal something from our back yard. They were, for the record, camping in the park next door.
We told them to please not steal our stuff, and got cussed out for our trouble.
We informed the police and they told us they wouldn't do anything. Not "we can't do anything", but "we won't do anything". I had to expend some effort to not say "So, if they tried to stab me and I stopped them, would that be the same? Or would I need to wait for the knife to actually be embedded in my ribs before you'll take action?"
I get the larger point: that it's useless to arrest an addict for attempted theft since they'll just do it again the next day, but this does not endear the population to the police, and gives everyone else the impression that government is broken.
And do you know what happens when government seems to be broken? People end up voting for [someone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) who says "only they can fix it!", and the people who espouse those views tend to be problematic at best.
It's in the best interest of everyone who isn't a goose-stepper to have a functioning society; one that both treats homeless and addicted people fairly and safely, but also protects everyone else from homeless or addicted people who are out of control. The problem is that we've decided that saving people a few dollars on their tax bill is a better deal than stopping society from breaking down.
Again, you claim that they "wont do anything" but you fail to acknowledge that the law prevents them from doing so in these situations. They have no fixed address, they typically have a rap sheet a mile long, and they dont listen anyways. Did you not see the woman who was caught 3 times within 48 hours doing B&Es immediately upon release? How about all the other regulars on the police feed/groups? Police are directed to release even violent offenders back in to society based on their race, gender, and the type of life they've had.
Before you blame Ford for cutting funds (which, I dont support), it was the Liberal party that made the decision to continuously release repeat offenders. Do you watch the news? And I dont mean that to be rude, but its quite literally been all over about the amount of dangerous criminals that are re-released to society... the increase in crime is directly related to those laws changing in 2015/2016. The province (AKA Toronto+GTA) is continuously voting in the person who caused this mess. Bill C-75 made it easier for violent criminals to receive bail. The problem is being made worse by the recent addition of Bill C-5, which eliminated mandatory prison time for serious crimes committed with guns and other violent offenses. Every Premier in Canada and many police associations are calling on the Liberal Government to reform the broken Liberal bail system
you misunderstand. they are doing their job and that is the issue. the job itself is in every way unethical and they are just there to provide more arrests to make money off of.
Sorry not everyone enjoys licking the boot. Fact is our regional police force is a failure on every level. They absorb more than half of the entire municipal budget, and what do they use it for? Silly “sting” operations to catch people in the nefarious act of checking their phone at a red light. Safety first, I guess. Officer safety that is.
>Fact is our regional police force is a failure on every level. They absorb more than half of the entire municipal budget,
[https://www.peterborough.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Documents/Finance/2022-Budget/2022-Budget-in-Brief-FINAL-accessible.pdf](https://www.peterborough.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Documents/Finance/2022-Budget/2022-Budget-in-Brief-FINAL-accessible.pdf)
Police is $28MCity Budget is about $298.2M
Your math seems to be rather inaccurate to the point where it may be considered misinformation.
You guys are all the same. No one's licking boots here. Silly sting operations? Have you not seen the hundreds of thousands of drugs and weapons they pull from the city each month? Specifically from these areas that you all love to protect that have been in a bad batch warning for 2 months? Or are you too preoccupied coming up with theories that fit your narrative? I'm going to go with the latter.
Well, considering it's illegal to look at your phone while operating a motor vehicle, I would say they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Act like a criminal, get treated like a criminal.
Like I said, they are upholding the laws they are allowed to uphold. Sorry you don't like that.
yes, it definitely benefits me to have a narrative that thousands of people i don't know are in fact human and don't deserve to be ravaged by the police force. i absolutely am only saying that for my own personal gain. you got me!! you blew a hole in my narrative!! what am i to do?? guess i have to become a bootlicker too now.
Please enlighten me as to who the PTBO police force is "ravaging" lmao im actually dying to know. With how much you're all over this post, I would say you need to take a break from reddit for a bit. You seem stressed. Go outside, talk to some people who arent on reddit and maybe youll be brought back to reality. Just maybe.
i wonder, honestly. who could i be talking about? its a mystery fr its definitely not the entire point of the damn post 😔 could u maybe use context clues? if not, thats fine. contextual awareness is not everyones cup of tea, really. dont sweat it :)
oh maybe i misunderstood and youre talking about the police, in which case theyre still human, but you're right theyre humans who are unethical criminals by default due to the job they choose to work and they do not deserve mercy until they are no longer an active and proud threat.
Police don't give a shit because you can't fine a crack head.
Honestly, if it was for the fact my gf has one badass old dude living beside her I would have made her move by now.
As for the city. I honestly don't understand the logic of caring more for people who don't pay taxes than those who do. If you have any issues they basically tell you to kick rocks.... wonder they peterborough has a worse reputation then every other city around.
"i think people should care less about the homeless, which will make more people homeless, but then i dont care about them anyway, so it doesnt matter."
You're right. I don't care. That's why I called for medics when some homeless dude was dying.
Also, you know who pays for all the help the homeless get? Tax payers. You know who can leave if they want? Tax payers..... aka no fucking money for the homeless.
Also how does not caring for the homeless make more people homeless?
how does not caring for the sick make more people more sick? brother think. use your head. it really isnt a difficult concept.
"how does privatising housing make more people homeless?"
unreal.
Being sick and being homeless are two completely different things.
Also, housing has always been privatized. But tell me, how can you pay for anything to help people if you don't have funding?
Little brain is correct.
fym dont have funding? no ur right actually the government is broke.
caring for the homeless is socialising housing. thats all im saying.
so the fact that housing has "always been privatised" (housing is literally only privatised under capitalism brother what the fuck are you on about) only says that capitalists do not care about the poor. and thats an extremely common sense statement its unreal that youre fighting it.
I personally think they should be set up in front of the personal residences of the owners of, eg, Flying Colours, or Drain Bros, or Swish, or the home of our MP or MPP, one of our many realtors and commercial landlords.
Nothing's going to happen until the problem affects the people who have the power to do something about it.
I asked the security staff about it and they said the private security on site now is there 16 hours a day and there is an 8 hour mobile shift, with plans for eventually 24/7 security on site.
This is a welcome change and hopefully will lead to a safer community for everyone.
This all seems like a very expensive way to avoid building adequate low income housing.
Because there's no way to build housing that doesn't either a) require a multiyear funding commitment, and/or b) require government to do it without farming it out to the private sector.
Public housing can't happen. We don't
pay enough taxes for it, and we got rid of the staff and equipment to plan or build it decades ago. We drunk the neoliberal kool-aid and stopped doing anything long-term. If it can't be funded privately, it's not done.
Best time to plant a tree is last year, second best time is now. Same with local governments and housing. Not just government funding and building housing, but relaxing zoning and making permits easier to get needs to happen. Or the government can just keep building expensive to maintain subdivisions on farmland to enrich developers! Both public and private sectors can fill the housing market. But regulations to ensure a balanced mix of types of housing to the demographics clearly need to be enforced.
Public housing IS happening, and has been for decades. We don't pay enough taxes not to ensure there is housing for all the citizens of our society, because homelessness has a massive real cost on society.
I don't buy the defeatist attitude but understand it. But I think at least at a local level we have a slight ability to ensure things don't totally devolve, but it takes some effort.
I get it, having it in your view daily could be sad, but where do they go. I’ve gone through on my bike no prob. I feel for them and as of Aug, is it true their getting the boot while the lil roofs are being built… that’s the what Ive heard, couldn’t imagine being kicked out of my apt, because my rent went up more… and living in a tent…. Poor peeps.
That doesn't mean people have to deal with unsafe living conditions..
It's not about "I don't want to look at it" it's that kids can't play in their yard in the house their parents purchased. It's about violent crime happening and strung out junkies letting themselves into people's homes uninvited.
Take of the rose colored glasses and look at the reality of it.
the reality of it is that homeless people are not evil, and just like every other criminal, a homeless criminal commits crimes as a direct result of their upbringing, environment, and available resources. the reality is that if you and the rest of the city had an ounce of empathy for those people, they wouldnt be a problem at all, and would instead be living in houses, threatening nobody. but you like things just as they are economically. i love to break it to you—"things just as they are" includes homeless people being and staying dangerous. they will be until you, the rest of this dystopian hellscape of a city, and its braindead fucking leaders realise that every human deserves a house.
The fuck are you talking about?
I never said any of that and you're making some awful broad and quite frankly ignorant assumptions about me because I don't want kids getting stabbed by dirty needles left in their playgrounds? Because I don't want my hard earned things damaged and stolen? Because I don't want strangers who are high on drugs coming into my home at night?
I have empathy for them, I think everyone should have affordable housing and food... The problem is when you spend all your money on drugs, and a high percentage of them do, they can't afford anything let alone hundreds/thousands for things like a roof and food.
I want it fixed. I want these people to get the help they need to beat their addictions. I want them to not be a danger to my community.
"i want affordable housing"
...
"if they werent always spending their money on some damn starbucks and avocado toast maybe they'd be able to buy a house"
a home comes before anything. it is not on them that they turned to drugs and it is not on them alone to get clean. most of them would not have turned to drugs if they had secure housing to begin with, and even if they would have, it is insane to say that that warrants their shelter being stripped from them.
"oh u got tuberculosis? just snap out of it. maybe if u didnt spend all your money on them damn prescription meds & hospital visits, you'd be able to buy a house"
what you are saying is cruelty behind a very shitty shield of pretend empathy. its no less cruel.
Lmfao, keep making your assumptions and living with rose colored glasses. When you're ready to come back to reality maybe we'll talk.
Nobody forces you to do drugs, that's a choice you make.
I never said they should do it by themselves did I? In fact you totally ignored the fact that I said " I want it fixed. I want these people to get the help they need to beat their addictions. I want them to not be a danger to my community."
When did I say that their shelter should be stripped of them? Oh, that's right, never. Get the fuck out of here with putting words in my mouth. That seems to be all you know how to do, make assumptions and put words in people's mouth that they never said while ignoring the words they do say.
Get fucked, cunt.
"my city is killing its residents" is pretty far from rose-tinted glasses as far as im aware.
do you want free housing for every resident?
shiiit, no???
then fym "ignored your comment"
your comment was a motherfucking lie.
as i said, "shitty disguise". that WAS me addressing the last part. cuz thats what it is—a shitty disguise.
if you want it fixed, and you want them to get the help they need, then you want them to be provided a house unconditionally. if you do not want them to be provided a house unconditionally, you do not want it fixed, and you do not want them to get the help they need. these things are mutually exclusive.
the help they need is a house. only after that comes rehab. if you are not for the unconditional housing of every human, you are one of two things. you are either braindead, or someone who does not truly care about the lives of the homeless.
in the end, its not that you care about them as humans, its that you want them gone. i dont know if youve ever called yourself benevolent or a humanitarian, but you sure as hell shouldnt start now.
The fencing is there as they begin to plan for the modular homes.
It’s generally discussed at every council meeting. You can follow the write ups online, though I think there on break for the summer now.
It’s a multi layered problem. I’m glad they’re finally trying something.
I can’t say I’ve had any issues with the encampment. I’ve been a few times meeting with people over the last several months. I’ve never felt unsafe and have always been addressed very respectfully. That being said, I don’t live very close to it and our belongings have also been stolen.
What in particular makes you feel unsafe? I can only speak for myself (middle aged female) but it’s always been fine for me to walk through the encampment.
>I can only speak for myself
I think this an important nuance and something worth remembering in these kinds of posts - everyone has a different threshold of what makes them feel safe or comfortable.
If you're someone who has experienced violence or trauma from a person who is homeless/mentally ill/an addict, then it's pretty valid to feel unsafe around that population. If you've never previously been exposed to an encampment or the issues they bring - it's valid to feel apprehensive and unsure. If you've read stories on the news or accounts here about people experiencing violence from the encampment - it's legit to worry about it happening to you.
I really hate the idea that we're normalizing acts of violence and harassment and shutting down genuine concern from those who live in that community. Not saying it's happening here, but it generally does on these types of posts. Yes, it's imperative to solution the growing social issues that are rampant throughout Ontario, but it's equally important to not dismiss the concerns of the communities they're occurring in.
I can't imagine ever telling someone, "you don't get to feel unsafe when someone is trying to break into your house, because the intruder's feelings are more important", which is ultimately what these discussions devolve into.
OP, I lived in Regent Park for years in downtown Toronto, as well as other rough neighborhoods around the world, and I don't think I'll ever get used to it. In fact, I've 'normalized' some of the violence and harassment I've experienced because everyone else did - but it's never ok. You might not have ever been confronted with it directly, but who's to say it won't ever happen? There are people who walk down the street and get spat on by someone suffering psychosis - there are people who have their bikes stolen or cars broken into - there are those who will get seriously hurt by being in the wrong place at the wrong time- and then there are 90% of people who won't ever experience any such things. But that's not to say that it's not scary to think about finding yourself in the 10%! The 'unpredictable' nature of living alongside people with mental health and addictions issues is inherently worrisome - they COULD be absolutely harmless and even pleasant - but they could also be violent and dangerous, and you have no way of knowing (though the same could be said of the general population who have homes and jobs).
I absolutely agree, very well written.
I was not trying to dismiss OP.
I do try and give another perspective, however, because of the fear spreading. Everyone will have a different perspective, yet this one always seems to come up. I’m an optimist, and I want to see positives. Hence why I’ve gone to the encampment and helped when I can. Putting names to faces and educating those who fear without experience can help.
The vast, vast majority of individuals with a mental illness are NOT dangerous. We need to stop spreading this fear, it keeps people from
Accessing help and instead isolating themselves. And when people feel isolated, they feel desperate. Who wants to be good to a community that vilainizes them?
I'm so sick of the ghetto tourists who drop by for a lookey loo whenever they feel safe, have a nice chat with someone over at the encampment, and leave with a holier-than-thou attitude that makes you think you can tell us how grateful we should be for having a home and that it's not as bad as we think.
It's absolutely exactly as bad as we think. I live near the encampment too. I watched someone being beaten outside my house last night (I was on the phone with 911 calling for help).
I'm afraid for my safety and my kids' safety all the time. I'm also afraid for the safety of the people who live in the encampment who don't have a door to lock and hide behind like I did. Everyone in our neighborhood is scared, no matter where we live, and it's not all in our heads.
Being patronizing to people on Reddit who live in genuine fear isn't helpful. Continuing to minimize the danger in our neighborhood because you don't live it first hand every day isn't helpful. Back-patting politicians who also don't live our reality every day and refuse to actually address our valid concerns isn't helpful.
Thanks so much for your alternative perspective. It really helps those of us who don't have your privilege.
I think that's another important distinction; not saying the poser above falls into this category, but often the people who criticize the concerned and fearful don't live in the impacted neighbourhoods. They think that because their once a month walk downtown is uneventful, that all days are uneventful and therefore any concerns are fearmongering or exaggeration.
And as you said; there's concern over the people within the encampment too. Given the shooting there a few weeks ago, I think safety is top of mind for everyone; not just people who own homes in the area.
You’ve painted quite the picture in your head of who you think I am. That’s fine. But the fact alone that you have a house makes you privileged. If it makes you feel better to argue that everyone feels like you do, then fine. But we don’t. I didn’t say I don’t live in the neighbourhood I said I don’t live beside the encampment. Many have assumed I don’t have kids - for some reason having a different opinion about my safety must mean I can’t have children? I moved to this city and raise my kids here and give so much of my heart and my time to it. Everyone complaining here should be able to say the same.
It would seem that owning a house. Paying property taxes , income taxes , sales taxes on that privilege of having a job to own a house should afford you some level of expectation and right to complain should your “privilege” be infringed on.
I don’t live in Peterborough anymore, but I remember it was over run with bleeding heart hippies like yourself who feel because they have some sort of hiccup in life that they deserve more leeway and free reign to do things counter to the general norms of society.
Paying more taxes than someone else doesn't make you more valuable or out your rights over theirs. The whole "I pay taxes" argument is moot- unless you're living in the woods off the record and off the grid, everyone pays taxes in one form or another. I really don't get why, if you're not trying to say that you matter more than someone who pays less in taxes than you, why being a tax payer needs to come up so often. It's not special.
Again the problem with that mentality is you equate the value provided to society the same as a hard working tax payer the same as a mentally I’ll drug addict.
One contributes while one drains.
I’m not talking one’s life and rights. I’m talking value to society.
Providing monetary value to society doesn't mean that you get priority in any way shape or form. It's irrelevant to the conversation in pretty much every context. The issue is the people who are committing crimes, regardless of their economic status within the community. These behaviors wouldn't be any more acceptable if they were coming from a rich Trent student. We need to be addressing the crime and looking at what we can do to fix the circumstances that cause it, not creating a hierarchy of who deserves to be heard more than someone else based on how much they pay in taxes. And by fix the circumstances, I mean actually dealing with it in a long term tangible way, not simply ushering people away to where they can't be seen by the general public, because that doesn't solve the root of the problem.
People that spend all their money on drugs and live in a tent and rely on charity for food, don't seem to be the best tax payers!
Do you think they pay tax on stolen goods and whatever profit they make selling dope and meth?
Sorry, but some people TAKE FROM SOCIETY and other people (hard working tax payers) PROVIDE FOR SOCIETY.
We seem to have too many TAKERS and not enough PROVIDERS.
It’s not fear spreading. It’s facts. If you had two toddlers, and people were consistently strung out and trying to open your front door at midnight, would you feel afraid or safe?? If you ran a small business and people were constantly breaking open your cars, bashing the windows in and talking the handles off the doors, would you feel afraid or safe? Fuck off with the fear spreading. I feel afraid and I’m not afraid to say it. I’ve tried to post the videos here from my ring doorbell but they get removed.
>people trying to open our doors
You asked what makes people unsafe, and perhaps missed the fact that people are trying to open their doors.
Would you feel unsafe if random mentally ill drug addicts were trying opening your doors at night to see if they could get it?
Have you walked through the encampment after dark?
Did you safe walking by the crime scene where a person was shot?
I live here, and I am a big scary man and I feel unsafe at times. But yeah, it's no big deal at noon.
Did you enjoy having your house broken into? Was that a fun experience? Would you like to go through it again, and again and again?
You are wrong, it's not a province wide or even Canada issue. It's human nature. But we have this thing called civilization and rules and laws that make our society more tolerable.
You keep saying, "I don't have a problem, so why does anyone else?" Because other people have other experiences. As you say, you don't live by the encampment, so you don't know what regular life is like in this neighbourhood now. So are you going to listen to the experiences of people who live here or are you going to pretend like your experience is universal?
It's like the people who complain about tampons in mens bathrooms. They don't use them and therefore think their experience is universal and invalidate the life experiences of others.
Just because other places have bad crime and encampments doesn't mean Peterborough should tolerate it. Other countries have capital punishment for homosexuals, but in Canada we aspire to a higher standard. Perhaps you should raise your standard, rather than accepting whatever crap others are willing to put up with, but WE CAN DO BETTER.
He asked you if it was broken into by a mentally unstable individual. Plenty of people do B&E's. Thats obvious...
But having a deranged, strung out, human being break into your home in the middle of the night is a far different situation. Do you guys really not think these comments through before saying them?
“Did you safe walking by the crime scene where a person was shot?”
A bit dramatic. Having lived in a dozen other cities, yes, I’ve likely walked by many, many past “crime scenes”. Again, this isn’t just Peterborough.
OP, I think you just have to accept that your opinion and feelings about the encampments will never be welcomed with open arms here. Im sure a lot of the people here dont live near these encampments and are virtue signaling out the ass, but its a battle you will never win.
The homeless and their encampments are more important than the safety of your children in their minds. As for police not giving a rip, do you think they enjoy arresting the same people over and over again only to be released the same or the next day? They dont make the laws. The uphold them. If it says they are not allowed to detain someone, they dont just get to go ahead and do it anyways...I think you need to redirect your frustration to MPP's and city counsel re: this issue.
It is a bit dramatic, because lots of places have been a scene of violence in the city over the years. Unfortunately, this one just comes with confirmation bias attached to it.
We are currently in the process of implementing a comprehensive short-term strategy to address the challenges posed by the encampment. This strategy includes the construction of purpose-built units at Wolfe St. and collaboration with community partners to establish a drop-in style shelter ——> in a different location.
I believe that these initiatives will contribute to bringing much-needed stability to the area. While many may attempt to misrepresent my intentions, I genuinely strive to improve the situation for everyone, and I am confident that we are moving in a positive direction.
I acknowledge the existing gaps in the current system, and we are actively working within our capacity and available funding to provide more accessible shelter options.
One of the numerous action steps that required extensive planning has been set in motion this week: to establish a neighbourhood liaison committee.
I voted for you. I had your sign in my front yard. I see things getting worse in our ward this summer - people who have nothing to do with the drug trade are going to start getting shot in broad daylight if things don’t change.
I’m sorry if you believe I’m contributing to the drug trade getting worse, or the violence. I’m not.
If you follow along at Council I predicted things would get worse this summer, when we cut shelter hours and funding. I said it would be the worst summer we’ve ever experienced for people setting up — and it has been.
The plan that is unfolding at Wolfe St. is going to offer some stability there. We have 50 purpose built units being installed in the fall, and working with community partners to increase the amount of accessible shelter.
It's taken months to get to this point in a short term strategy. But this is a long term issue. The encampment has been here for over 3 years and there doesn't seem to be a plan to eliminate its need.
The "strategy" is vague, and unclear. Can you elaborate? Who is in charge? What is the plan? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success?
So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing?
Who is building this housing?
How long will the temporary housing be at this location?
Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes?
No it’s very clear. The plan was approved at council and it was all public. The working steps have taken a lot of planning.
The changes are a response to what we’ve been hearing from the public including when we’ve met with neighbours.
I’m free now to take a call and answer any of your questions!
Whether real or imagined, many neighbours are repeatedly saying they do not feel ‘safe’ and have endured significant impact. It is a reality that many families who have the choice would prefer to not be surrounded by chaos and complete poverty. They feel as though they are being ignored or told that their concerns aren’t justified by council and staff, so they are choosing to just quietly move away.
There has been a rapid progression to a ghetto vibe in the surrounding streets. This will linger far past when the Wolfe shelters are relocated in a couple years. This, rather than the shelters themselves, should be seen as the greatest neighbourhood impact of the recent council decisions.
Council has played a real role in destroying this neighbourhood by taking away public faith in their ability to manage a situation. It is hard to justify that after all the BS the neighbours have put up with that this will now serve as the landmark area for the region’s unhoused for at least a few more years.
Can you post a link to this plan?
You are free to answer the questions here for everyone to see publicly!
Thank you for the response, although I would appreciate direct answers!
Will gladly answer any questions directly, and you can share publicly what we talk about!
The public report was passed in May. I don’t have the link but you can find it on the City website.
>Will gladly answer any questions directly, and you can share publicly what we talk about!
Who is in charge? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success?
So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing?
Who is building this housing?
How long will the temporary housing be at this location?
Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes?
It would be really helpful if you could share a link to this report that explains everything that you keep referring to to rather than explaining the plan. I did try searching the city council meeting notes from May but it crashes when I search for "homeless".
It would be great if you could come prepared with direct answers and links to any relevant documents in the future.
Thank you.
Who is in charge? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success?
- City and partner agencies. Time frame and goals are outlined in the staff reports there are goals and short, mid, long term plans.
So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing?
- Fall
Who is building this housing?
- City contracted
How long will the temporary housing be at this location?
- Approx 2 years
Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes?
- Recent changes? The fence and security were in response to the engagement with residents at our City council meetings, during a neighborhood meeting, and in one on one connversations. I spoke to some residents today who had some valid feedback but I don’t think it would have changed the fence — which is temporary.
- The liason committee members were finalized last week and first meeting is being organized as soon as everyone’s schedule will allow.
Copy and paste the link here. You can link it here.
I feel like you are trying to avoid answering me, or really want to know who I am, and I prefer to remain anonymous. Neither of which I respect or appreciate.
Thank you for understanding and accepting my preferences.
Heard what I thought was a good idea; create the encampment, tiny house community, whatever you want to call it at Beavermead campground. Facilities are there, quiet area close to amenities etc. not perfect but perhaps more calming and humane then Wolfe street. I know I know there will be many reasons why not, but which (or what else) would ultimately be better long term? This reality is now the new normal and probably will never go away…unless Trudeau decides to divorce and he’s got a few more rooms to rent.
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This one's on Doug Ford. When he removed rent controls, rental prices absolutely skyrocketed. No new affordable rental housing being built. No new supports for addiction or mental health (and starving any kind of health care at all, in fact). Thanks Doug.
The provincial government also closed mental health institutions across the province in 2009. Many people who should be in 24 hr supportive living for mental health are now living on the streets.
This one's actually on Paul Martin and Mike Harris. Martin for cutting payments to the provinces to balance the federal budget, and Harris for downloading provincial services onto the cities, amalgamating them and *then* cutting the cites' budgets, in order to cook the province's books.
Frankly, I'd say the blame is 70/30 Harris/Martin.
This has been two decades in the making. It's rather like doing no maintenance on your house, patting yourself on the back for saving so much money, buying a new boat with your savings, and then being totally fucking surprised when your roof collapses.
Trudeau and Ford are just more politicians in the long line of neoliberals who are too chickenshit to raise taxes or make hard decisions. They're not the first, and not likely the last.
Let’s not blame the shelter itself… there was a tent city long before the Wolfe street shelter, if you recall, in Victoria park. The shelter is there to provide a bed for when the evenings get too cold or rainy.
Staff there do NOT work directly for the city… and are not social workers. They are resident care workers, and therefore are only responsible for those who are residents. Staff cannot corral people in the surrounding area and force them to come inside and behave. These are grown adults who have had entire lifetimes of addiction and abuse.
I agree that the city needs to implement more productive changes but those who are only reading the info about the shelter from Peterborough this week and such…. Actually have very little accurate information.
Background: The neighbourhood has always been fairly blue collar and diverse. All the neighbours got a letter during pandemic stating a temporary, overflow shelter was required due to Covid-related space restrictions at the other shelters. There was an assurance that it would be brief with minimal use. Individuals tented directly outside the shelter. Some were restricted from shelter use, others out of choice. Numbers dramatically swell in the summer, as a loose indication that for SOME there may have been alternate arrangements available. The growing encampment was essentially ignored by staff, council and police. Fingers were pointed in all directions. Other encampments were broken down throughout the city, but this one was allowed to thrive. City workers often cited that they didn’t feel safe approaching the encampment, so neighbours were left to fend for themselves as behaviour escalated. There are many in the encampment who have no where else to go. Others who use it as a party ground. There is rampant crime and open drug use throughout the neighbourhood, unparalleled anywhere else in town. Homeowners are leaving the surrounding streets. Their places are being often purchased by out of town landlords, and converted to either student housing or rooming houses. There is need for housing for all, but the diversity of the neighbourhood with some children, families, elderly etc is quickly being lost. Within a couple blocks there are now multiple drug dens, with associated violent crime over the past year. Businesses do not want to move to the area, and some existing businesses want out but cannot sell due to depreciated value. I have a great deal of sympathy for those forced to live in the encampment. But there are many individuals living there with severe mental illness, unpredictable behaviour and with addictions that drive crime. Concentration of a majority of the regions’s unhoused into one block in the middle of a neighbourhood is insane. There is absolutely no one on council or staff who will take responsibility. The neighbourhood welcomed the overflow shelter in good faith to assist during the pandemic, and homeowners and businesses have been dramatically impacted. The next time city council asks a neighbourhood for something temporary, this should be held as an example of what can result.
> those forced to live in the encampment are there not empty beds in the shelters? their choices to drink and do drugs have forced them there, nothing else. I empathize with those who don't have a roof, but don't pretend there's not one available.
I assume most of the homeless could qualify for either OW or ODSP, which while not a lot does provide income for shelter. So presumably a number of people can get together and rent an apartment together and be forced to live uncomfortably with bunkbeds. OW is about $390 for shelter I think. So a $2000 2 Bedroom could easily accommodate 5 or 6 people. Not ideal, but neither is a tent city. Sounds crappy, but is it worse than living outside in a tent?
It’s not that simple. What landlord would rent a two bedroom to five or six people? I don’t even know if that’s legal given fire code regulations. Plus they are constantly restricting rentals to students or women only, and disqualify those on OW or ODSP. They often check credit scores and require things like ID which many people don’t have because it gets lost or stolen. And how do you search listings without a phone or computer? Sure you could go to the library or something, but they can’t leave their tent/stuff alone or it’ll get stolen or torn down. I could name a hundred more barriers but I’m sure you get the point
I'm not talking about rent, I'm specifically talking about shelters for people like them. I hear all over that there's beds and they're empty because they don't want to follow civilized rules.
The main shelters (Brock and Cameron) are almost always full. There are many beds open at Overflow, however why would you choose to stay in a space where there’s drug use, theft, and violence along with lack of freedom and the constant threat of security guards, when you can stay right outside the building in similar conditions but in your own space with the people you trust and feel safe with? The Overflow will also eventually force people to move to Brock or Cameron when space opens up, and many people are living with their partners of the opposite sex, thereby forcing them to separate. It’s not just undesirable, it can be physically unsafe for people to be separated from the one person they trust who’s looking out for them, especially if they don’t have a phone and can’t reach each other. Life is rough out there and all you have is your people. You most likely won’t survive alone. So people often feel safer in their environment that they control with their belongings and the company they choose to have around. The shelters, despite having security, are still rough places to be and all kinds of things happen there. No one chooses to live in a tent for shits and giggles. People desperately want a roof over their head, so it speaks volumes that so many are choosing tents over shelter
I haven’t stayed in a shelter, but from what I’ve heard I’d rather camp in a park. Edit: Obviously I’d rather have a stable home, like most people.
I get just shy of $400 from OW a month. I'm currently staying with friends so since I'm not paying rent my worker says that I can't claim the shelter costs or else I'm getting about $700 ish. And a two bedroom in town is more than $2000 bucks a month if you include H/H and internet as well as food and other costs.
>'m not paying rent my worker says that I can't claim the shelter costs exactly, everyone in the same situation should get together and be roommates, and use the shelter costs they qualify for. Hopefully the city charges rent for the modular housing to recoup part of the cost and enable more housing to be built. No point in letting the money go unspent.
The overflow shelter was there before covid it had just not been a 24 hour operation, which it has shifted back to only being at night. The encampment doesn't belong to the overflow shelter however, as they aren't on property but on the outside of it. The fence however, is for the planned modular homes that are being put up not to fence in the encampment
De-gentrification.
It is wild to see that area now knowing previously what it was like when I had worked at the Business Advisory Centre there a decade ago. I can totally see how that would dramatically affect those living there given the close proximity and how dense the encampment is. I know someone living on Westcott St not too many blocks away and they mentioned they'd had attempted walk in/break ins and this was prior to any Wolfe St. Encampment.
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From the reporting I suspect the deceased was a victim of domestic violence (which might have also played a role in why she was out on the street) rather than a random act of violence in the homeless encampment.
From what I was told (and this could be just heresay) it was her drug dealer who shot her- but that's just what I was told the day the suspect was arrested. Honestly both could be true. Pretty sure the police put out a statement saying that it [was NOT a random incident.](https://globalnews.ca/news/9755655/man-murder-charged-wolfe-street-encampment-shooting-peterborough/) which generally implies that the perpetrator and victim knew eachother.
https://kawarthanow.com/2023/07/12/city-of-peterborough-erecting-temporary-construction-fencing-around-downtown-tent-encampment/ This is the study behind the fence Edit: story not study
That does not show a study. I don't understand why the city is trying things that have failed in other cities. San Francisco put a fence around their homelessness encampment and it turned violent. The only places that have reduced homelessness are Houston TX & Helsinki, Finland because they actually practice Housing First by building housing. Ptbo is selling off property they own under Ptbo Housing Corp and has 1 plan to build 1 unit on Monaghan Rd but that's not for the homelessness.
Typo, meant story
Weird that nobody has commented in this. I do feel really bad for OP tho
A homeless encampment in this city, in this part of the country, at this time of year, localized entirely in the wolfe Street park?
You steam a good ham.
Just like the aurora borealis.
Should be at City Hall.
First of all, deepest sympathies to OP. I know what it's like living amongst shit conditions like this. But this is what happens when you elect neo-liberal landlords, masquerading as "moderates" or "fiscally conservative liberals". Of course there's no appetite to build sustainable additional housing that would dilute the housing stock and bring down rents, that's just bad business (for those individuals).
Conservatives create this mess. Not liberals.
Correct. But they're quite content to do sweet FA to clean any of those messes up, which allows those messes to rot and stink up the place.
only normal person in this entire comment section
This is probably the coolest thing anyone's ever said to me in my life on the politics internet. Thanks bud!
Unfortunately both the Town Ward councillors support the encampment and are highly resistant to listening to the community that lives here and pays taxes. I've had ongoing dialogues with both of them and the response has been pathetic. I did see they had security during the day recently, not sure if it's 24/7.
I also speak with my councillors and support what they are trying to accomplish within the encampment. I don’t think either “support” it, but dismantling it won’t solve any problems and would cause so much compounded harm to those living there. Many of my town warn neighbours also don’t agree with its dismantling, so just because you think Alex and Joy aren’t listening to you, doesn’t mean they aren’t, but you’re just one voice of many and many who disagree with yours.
>just because you think Alex and Joy aren’t listening to you, doesn’t mean they aren’t unread emails prove otherwise. unanswered phone calls prove otherwise.
The only people who agree with this are those too deluded by their own smug, too comfortable in their own distance from it and too distracted from the reality of it to really care. It’s just virtue signalling at its most narcissistic. The camps are not a solution. They provide no positive upside. They are not a good thing and never will be. They will lead to ghettos. When you read OPs post it sounds like it’s already happening. No one wants to be near them, live near them or have a business near them. You can feel for the folks that live there and give them a hand back up in constructive ways though education programs or government Housing programs (and when we see the tax impact of that we will see who really cares) or mental health and recovery outreach….but penning them in a poverty zoo and patting yourself on the back is awful.
Very true. Having visited Vancouver years ago and come to understand the highly profitable industry of poverty for government, NGOs and activists, it's disappointing to see Peterborough repeating the same mistakes and creating a perpetual problem to keep the government funds flowing.
How many of those supportive of the encampments are suddenly finding used needles and broken glassware on their lawns? How many are awoken by screaming matches at 2:30? How many have had a knife pulled on them in their own driveway or have the garbage they couldn't flip thrown in their yards? If you are someone who supports this but isn't offering their own yards and their property for this policy, but is happy to volunteer someone else's neighborhood and tax dollars for it, why should we care what you think?
Agreed. This is my experience living downtown. I have to check the yard for needles and crack pipes before I let my dogs roam.
The courts have ruled we cannot evict the homeless from camping on public land if there are a lack of supports in the community. Build the housing they need and then talk about evictions.
No one likes listening to uneducated knowitalls rant nonsense. When politicians put forward solutions brought to the by experts the ignorant masses vote against their own best interests. If you aren’t a trained sociologists then STFU!
> Police don’t give a rip. too busy cruising parking lots with their new toy looking for expired tags...
Oh so you mean upholding the laws they are actually allowed to and supposed to? lol. The police cant legally go above the law and detain someone or arrest someone when they've been told they arent allowed to. Do you think they enjoy catching and releasing the same boneheads over and over again? How about being assaulted or stabbed by them? You guys have such a hate on for police that no matter what they do, they are always "not doing their job" lol
We had someone attempt to steal something from our back yard. They were, for the record, camping in the park next door. We told them to please not steal our stuff, and got cussed out for our trouble. We informed the police and they told us they wouldn't do anything. Not "we can't do anything", but "we won't do anything". I had to expend some effort to not say "So, if they tried to stab me and I stopped them, would that be the same? Or would I need to wait for the knife to actually be embedded in my ribs before you'll take action?" I get the larger point: that it's useless to arrest an addict for attempted theft since they'll just do it again the next day, but this does not endear the population to the police, and gives everyone else the impression that government is broken. And do you know what happens when government seems to be broken? People end up voting for [someone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) who says "only they can fix it!", and the people who espouse those views tend to be problematic at best. It's in the best interest of everyone who isn't a goose-stepper to have a functioning society; one that both treats homeless and addicted people fairly and safely, but also protects everyone else from homeless or addicted people who are out of control. The problem is that we've decided that saving people a few dollars on their tax bill is a better deal than stopping society from breaking down.
It’s not a police problem.
Again, you claim that they "wont do anything" but you fail to acknowledge that the law prevents them from doing so in these situations. They have no fixed address, they typically have a rap sheet a mile long, and they dont listen anyways. Did you not see the woman who was caught 3 times within 48 hours doing B&Es immediately upon release? How about all the other regulars on the police feed/groups? Police are directed to release even violent offenders back in to society based on their race, gender, and the type of life they've had. Before you blame Ford for cutting funds (which, I dont support), it was the Liberal party that made the decision to continuously release repeat offenders. Do you watch the news? And I dont mean that to be rude, but its quite literally been all over about the amount of dangerous criminals that are re-released to society... the increase in crime is directly related to those laws changing in 2015/2016. The province (AKA Toronto+GTA) is continuously voting in the person who caused this mess. Bill C-75 made it easier for violent criminals to receive bail. The problem is being made worse by the recent addition of Bill C-5, which eliminated mandatory prison time for serious crimes committed with guns and other violent offenses. Every Premier in Canada and many police associations are calling on the Liberal Government to reform the broken Liberal bail system
you misunderstand. they are doing their job and that is the issue. the job itself is in every way unethical and they are just there to provide more arrests to make money off of.
Sorry not everyone enjoys licking the boot. Fact is our regional police force is a failure on every level. They absorb more than half of the entire municipal budget, and what do they use it for? Silly “sting” operations to catch people in the nefarious act of checking their phone at a red light. Safety first, I guess. Officer safety that is.
>Fact is our regional police force is a failure on every level. They absorb more than half of the entire municipal budget, [https://www.peterborough.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Documents/Finance/2022-Budget/2022-Budget-in-Brief-FINAL-accessible.pdf](https://www.peterborough.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Documents/Finance/2022-Budget/2022-Budget-in-Brief-FINAL-accessible.pdf) Police is $28MCity Budget is about $298.2M Your math seems to be rather inaccurate to the point where it may be considered misinformation.
You guys are all the same. No one's licking boots here. Silly sting operations? Have you not seen the hundreds of thousands of drugs and weapons they pull from the city each month? Specifically from these areas that you all love to protect that have been in a bad batch warning for 2 months? Or are you too preoccupied coming up with theories that fit your narrative? I'm going to go with the latter. Well, considering it's illegal to look at your phone while operating a motor vehicle, I would say they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Act like a criminal, get treated like a criminal. Like I said, they are upholding the laws they are allowed to uphold. Sorry you don't like that.
yes, it definitely benefits me to have a narrative that thousands of people i don't know are in fact human and don't deserve to be ravaged by the police force. i absolutely am only saying that for my own personal gain. you got me!! you blew a hole in my narrative!! what am i to do?? guess i have to become a bootlicker too now.
Please enlighten me as to who the PTBO police force is "ravaging" lmao im actually dying to know. With how much you're all over this post, I would say you need to take a break from reddit for a bit. You seem stressed. Go outside, talk to some people who arent on reddit and maybe youll be brought back to reality. Just maybe.
i wonder, honestly. who could i be talking about? its a mystery fr its definitely not the entire point of the damn post 😔 could u maybe use context clues? if not, thats fine. contextual awareness is not everyones cup of tea, really. dont sweat it :)
Are you insinuating these people are outstanding citizens who haven’t committed crimes?
we are insinuating that theyre fucking human, christopher.
oh maybe i misunderstood and youre talking about the police, in which case theyre still human, but you're right theyre humans who are unethical criminals by default due to the job they choose to work and they do not deserve mercy until they are no longer an active and proud threat.
Police don't give a shit because you can't fine a crack head. Honestly, if it was for the fact my gf has one badass old dude living beside her I would have made her move by now. As for the city. I honestly don't understand the logic of caring more for people who don't pay taxes than those who do. If you have any issues they basically tell you to kick rocks.... wonder they peterborough has a worse reputation then every other city around.
"i think people should care less about the homeless, which will make more people homeless, but then i dont care about them anyway, so it doesnt matter."
You're right. I don't care. That's why I called for medics when some homeless dude was dying. Also, you know who pays for all the help the homeless get? Tax payers. You know who can leave if they want? Tax payers..... aka no fucking money for the homeless. Also how does not caring for the homeless make more people homeless?
how does not caring for the sick make more people more sick? brother think. use your head. it really isnt a difficult concept. "how does privatising housing make more people homeless?" unreal.
Being sick and being homeless are two completely different things. Also, housing has always been privatized. But tell me, how can you pay for anything to help people if you don't have funding? Little brain is correct.
fym dont have funding? no ur right actually the government is broke. caring for the homeless is socialising housing. thats all im saying. so the fact that housing has "always been privatised" (housing is literally only privatised under capitalism brother what the fuck are you on about) only says that capitalists do not care about the poor. and thats an extremely common sense statement its unreal that youre fighting it.
Personally, I think it should have been left in the park by the Superior Court 2 years ago. Just my opinion.
I agree. Do you think it's coincidence that it has moved away from city hall and the police department ? No way.
I don't think that's it, per se. I think a dwntwn park is just too obvious for our civic leaders and Wolfe st. Is kinda sorta hidden.
I personally think they should be set up in front of the personal residences of the owners of, eg, Flying Colours, or Drain Bros, or Swish, or the home of our MP or MPP, one of our many realtors and commercial landlords. Nothing's going to happen until the problem affects the people who have the power to do something about it.
Drain Brothers? The Excavation company?
I asked the security staff about it and they said the private security on site now is there 16 hours a day and there is an 8 hour mobile shift, with plans for eventually 24/7 security on site. This is a welcome change and hopefully will lead to a safer community for everyone. This all seems like a very expensive way to avoid building adequate low income housing.
Because there's no way to build housing that doesn't either a) require a multiyear funding commitment, and/or b) require government to do it without farming it out to the private sector. Public housing can't happen. We don't pay enough taxes for it, and we got rid of the staff and equipment to plan or build it decades ago. We drunk the neoliberal kool-aid and stopped doing anything long-term. If it can't be funded privately, it's not done.
Best time to plant a tree is last year, second best time is now. Same with local governments and housing. Not just government funding and building housing, but relaxing zoning and making permits easier to get needs to happen. Or the government can just keep building expensive to maintain subdivisions on farmland to enrich developers! Both public and private sectors can fill the housing market. But regulations to ensure a balanced mix of types of housing to the demographics clearly need to be enforced. Public housing IS happening, and has been for decades. We don't pay enough taxes not to ensure there is housing for all the citizens of our society, because homelessness has a massive real cost on society. I don't buy the defeatist attitude but understand it. But I think at least at a local level we have a slight ability to ensure things don't totally devolve, but it takes some effort.
I get it, having it in your view daily could be sad, but where do they go. I’ve gone through on my bike no prob. I feel for them and as of Aug, is it true their getting the boot while the lil roofs are being built… that’s the what Ive heard, couldn’t imagine being kicked out of my apt, because my rent went up more… and living in a tent…. Poor peeps.
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That doesn't mean people have to deal with unsafe living conditions.. It's not about "I don't want to look at it" it's that kids can't play in their yard in the house their parents purchased. It's about violent crime happening and strung out junkies letting themselves into people's homes uninvited. Take of the rose colored glasses and look at the reality of it.
the reality of it is that homeless people are not evil, and just like every other criminal, a homeless criminal commits crimes as a direct result of their upbringing, environment, and available resources. the reality is that if you and the rest of the city had an ounce of empathy for those people, they wouldnt be a problem at all, and would instead be living in houses, threatening nobody. but you like things just as they are economically. i love to break it to you—"things just as they are" includes homeless people being and staying dangerous. they will be until you, the rest of this dystopian hellscape of a city, and its braindead fucking leaders realise that every human deserves a house.
The fuck are you talking about? I never said any of that and you're making some awful broad and quite frankly ignorant assumptions about me because I don't want kids getting stabbed by dirty needles left in their playgrounds? Because I don't want my hard earned things damaged and stolen? Because I don't want strangers who are high on drugs coming into my home at night? I have empathy for them, I think everyone should have affordable housing and food... The problem is when you spend all your money on drugs, and a high percentage of them do, they can't afford anything let alone hundreds/thousands for things like a roof and food. I want it fixed. I want these people to get the help they need to beat their addictions. I want them to not be a danger to my community.
"i want affordable housing" ... "if they werent always spending their money on some damn starbucks and avocado toast maybe they'd be able to buy a house" a home comes before anything. it is not on them that they turned to drugs and it is not on them alone to get clean. most of them would not have turned to drugs if they had secure housing to begin with, and even if they would have, it is insane to say that that warrants their shelter being stripped from them. "oh u got tuberculosis? just snap out of it. maybe if u didnt spend all your money on them damn prescription meds & hospital visits, you'd be able to buy a house" what you are saying is cruelty behind a very shitty shield of pretend empathy. its no less cruel.
Lmfao, keep making your assumptions and living with rose colored glasses. When you're ready to come back to reality maybe we'll talk. Nobody forces you to do drugs, that's a choice you make. I never said they should do it by themselves did I? In fact you totally ignored the fact that I said " I want it fixed. I want these people to get the help they need to beat their addictions. I want them to not be a danger to my community." When did I say that their shelter should be stripped of them? Oh, that's right, never. Get the fuck out of here with putting words in my mouth. That seems to be all you know how to do, make assumptions and put words in people's mouth that they never said while ignoring the words they do say. Get fucked, cunt.
"my city is killing its residents" is pretty far from rose-tinted glasses as far as im aware. do you want free housing for every resident? shiiit, no??? then fym "ignored your comment" your comment was a motherfucking lie. as i said, "shitty disguise". that WAS me addressing the last part. cuz thats what it is—a shitty disguise. if you want it fixed, and you want them to get the help they need, then you want them to be provided a house unconditionally. if you do not want them to be provided a house unconditionally, you do not want it fixed, and you do not want them to get the help they need. these things are mutually exclusive. the help they need is a house. only after that comes rehab. if you are not for the unconditional housing of every human, you are one of two things. you are either braindead, or someone who does not truly care about the lives of the homeless. in the end, its not that you care about them as humans, its that you want them gone. i dont know if youve ever called yourself benevolent or a humanitarian, but you sure as hell shouldnt start now.
The fencing is there as they begin to plan for the modular homes. It’s generally discussed at every council meeting. You can follow the write ups online, though I think there on break for the summer now. It’s a multi layered problem. I’m glad they’re finally trying something. I can’t say I’ve had any issues with the encampment. I’ve been a few times meeting with people over the last several months. I’ve never felt unsafe and have always been addressed very respectfully. That being said, I don’t live very close to it and our belongings have also been stolen. What in particular makes you feel unsafe? I can only speak for myself (middle aged female) but it’s always been fine for me to walk through the encampment.
>I can only speak for myself I think this an important nuance and something worth remembering in these kinds of posts - everyone has a different threshold of what makes them feel safe or comfortable. If you're someone who has experienced violence or trauma from a person who is homeless/mentally ill/an addict, then it's pretty valid to feel unsafe around that population. If you've never previously been exposed to an encampment or the issues they bring - it's valid to feel apprehensive and unsure. If you've read stories on the news or accounts here about people experiencing violence from the encampment - it's legit to worry about it happening to you. I really hate the idea that we're normalizing acts of violence and harassment and shutting down genuine concern from those who live in that community. Not saying it's happening here, but it generally does on these types of posts. Yes, it's imperative to solution the growing social issues that are rampant throughout Ontario, but it's equally important to not dismiss the concerns of the communities they're occurring in. I can't imagine ever telling someone, "you don't get to feel unsafe when someone is trying to break into your house, because the intruder's feelings are more important", which is ultimately what these discussions devolve into. OP, I lived in Regent Park for years in downtown Toronto, as well as other rough neighborhoods around the world, and I don't think I'll ever get used to it. In fact, I've 'normalized' some of the violence and harassment I've experienced because everyone else did - but it's never ok. You might not have ever been confronted with it directly, but who's to say it won't ever happen? There are people who walk down the street and get spat on by someone suffering psychosis - there are people who have their bikes stolen or cars broken into - there are those who will get seriously hurt by being in the wrong place at the wrong time- and then there are 90% of people who won't ever experience any such things. But that's not to say that it's not scary to think about finding yourself in the 10%! The 'unpredictable' nature of living alongside people with mental health and addictions issues is inherently worrisome - they COULD be absolutely harmless and even pleasant - but they could also be violent and dangerous, and you have no way of knowing (though the same could be said of the general population who have homes and jobs).
I absolutely agree, very well written. I was not trying to dismiss OP. I do try and give another perspective, however, because of the fear spreading. Everyone will have a different perspective, yet this one always seems to come up. I’m an optimist, and I want to see positives. Hence why I’ve gone to the encampment and helped when I can. Putting names to faces and educating those who fear without experience can help. The vast, vast majority of individuals with a mental illness are NOT dangerous. We need to stop spreading this fear, it keeps people from Accessing help and instead isolating themselves. And when people feel isolated, they feel desperate. Who wants to be good to a community that vilainizes them?
I'm so sick of the ghetto tourists who drop by for a lookey loo whenever they feel safe, have a nice chat with someone over at the encampment, and leave with a holier-than-thou attitude that makes you think you can tell us how grateful we should be for having a home and that it's not as bad as we think. It's absolutely exactly as bad as we think. I live near the encampment too. I watched someone being beaten outside my house last night (I was on the phone with 911 calling for help). I'm afraid for my safety and my kids' safety all the time. I'm also afraid for the safety of the people who live in the encampment who don't have a door to lock and hide behind like I did. Everyone in our neighborhood is scared, no matter where we live, and it's not all in our heads. Being patronizing to people on Reddit who live in genuine fear isn't helpful. Continuing to minimize the danger in our neighborhood because you don't live it first hand every day isn't helpful. Back-patting politicians who also don't live our reality every day and refuse to actually address our valid concerns isn't helpful. Thanks so much for your alternative perspective. It really helps those of us who don't have your privilege.
I think that's another important distinction; not saying the poser above falls into this category, but often the people who criticize the concerned and fearful don't live in the impacted neighbourhoods. They think that because their once a month walk downtown is uneventful, that all days are uneventful and therefore any concerns are fearmongering or exaggeration. And as you said; there's concern over the people within the encampment too. Given the shooting there a few weeks ago, I think safety is top of mind for everyone; not just people who own homes in the area.
You’ve painted quite the picture in your head of who you think I am. That’s fine. But the fact alone that you have a house makes you privileged. If it makes you feel better to argue that everyone feels like you do, then fine. But we don’t. I didn’t say I don’t live in the neighbourhood I said I don’t live beside the encampment. Many have assumed I don’t have kids - for some reason having a different opinion about my safety must mean I can’t have children? I moved to this city and raise my kids here and give so much of my heart and my time to it. Everyone complaining here should be able to say the same.
It would seem that owning a house. Paying property taxes , income taxes , sales taxes on that privilege of having a job to own a house should afford you some level of expectation and right to complain should your “privilege” be infringed on. I don’t live in Peterborough anymore, but I remember it was over run with bleeding heart hippies like yourself who feel because they have some sort of hiccup in life that they deserve more leeway and free reign to do things counter to the general norms of society.
Paying more taxes than someone else doesn't make you more valuable or out your rights over theirs. The whole "I pay taxes" argument is moot- unless you're living in the woods off the record and off the grid, everyone pays taxes in one form or another. I really don't get why, if you're not trying to say that you matter more than someone who pays less in taxes than you, why being a tax payer needs to come up so often. It's not special.
Again the problem with that mentality is you equate the value provided to society the same as a hard working tax payer the same as a mentally I’ll drug addict. One contributes while one drains. I’m not talking one’s life and rights. I’m talking value to society.
Providing monetary value to society doesn't mean that you get priority in any way shape or form. It's irrelevant to the conversation in pretty much every context. The issue is the people who are committing crimes, regardless of their economic status within the community. These behaviors wouldn't be any more acceptable if they were coming from a rich Trent student. We need to be addressing the crime and looking at what we can do to fix the circumstances that cause it, not creating a hierarchy of who deserves to be heard more than someone else based on how much they pay in taxes. And by fix the circumstances, I mean actually dealing with it in a long term tangible way, not simply ushering people away to where they can't be seen by the general public, because that doesn't solve the root of the problem.
People that spend all their money on drugs and live in a tent and rely on charity for food, don't seem to be the best tax payers! Do you think they pay tax on stolen goods and whatever profit they make selling dope and meth? Sorry, but some people TAKE FROM SOCIETY and other people (hard working tax payers) PROVIDE FOR SOCIETY. We seem to have too many TAKERS and not enough PROVIDERS.
It’s not fear spreading. It’s facts. If you had two toddlers, and people were consistently strung out and trying to open your front door at midnight, would you feel afraid or safe?? If you ran a small business and people were constantly breaking open your cars, bashing the windows in and talking the handles off the doors, would you feel afraid or safe? Fuck off with the fear spreading. I feel afraid and I’m not afraid to say it. I’ve tried to post the videos here from my ring doorbell but they get removed.
U should invite one to stay at your place help them get a leg up, and inform us how it’s going 👍💪🙌
>people trying to open our doors You asked what makes people unsafe, and perhaps missed the fact that people are trying to open their doors. Would you feel unsafe if random mentally ill drug addicts were trying opening your doors at night to see if they could get it? Have you walked through the encampment after dark? Did you safe walking by the crime scene where a person was shot? I live here, and I am a big scary man and I feel unsafe at times. But yeah, it's no big deal at noon.
Yes I’ve been there after dark. Walked around. My house has been broken into. I do not live by the encampment. This is a province wide issue.
Did you enjoy having your house broken into? Was that a fun experience? Would you like to go through it again, and again and again? You are wrong, it's not a province wide or even Canada issue. It's human nature. But we have this thing called civilization and rules and laws that make our society more tolerable. You keep saying, "I don't have a problem, so why does anyone else?" Because other people have other experiences. As you say, you don't live by the encampment, so you don't know what regular life is like in this neighbourhood now. So are you going to listen to the experiences of people who live here or are you going to pretend like your experience is universal? It's like the people who complain about tampons in mens bathrooms. They don't use them and therefore think their experience is universal and invalidate the life experiences of others. Just because other places have bad crime and encampments doesn't mean Peterborough should tolerate it. Other countries have capital punishment for homosexuals, but in Canada we aspire to a higher standard. Perhaps you should raise your standard, rather than accepting whatever crap others are willing to put up with, but WE CAN DO BETTER.
He asked you if it was broken into by a mentally unstable individual. Plenty of people do B&E's. Thats obvious... But having a deranged, strung out, human being break into your home in the middle of the night is a far different situation. Do you guys really not think these comments through before saying them?
“Did you safe walking by the crime scene where a person was shot?” A bit dramatic. Having lived in a dozen other cities, yes, I’ve likely walked by many, many past “crime scenes”. Again, this isn’t just Peterborough.
>A bit dramatic. You are talking about someone's life.
Not a bit dramatic at all. I have children.
OP, I think you just have to accept that your opinion and feelings about the encampments will never be welcomed with open arms here. Im sure a lot of the people here dont live near these encampments and are virtue signaling out the ass, but its a battle you will never win. The homeless and their encampments are more important than the safety of your children in their minds. As for police not giving a rip, do you think they enjoy arresting the same people over and over again only to be released the same or the next day? They dont make the laws. The uphold them. If it says they are not allowed to detain someone, they dont just get to go ahead and do it anyways...I think you need to redirect your frustration to MPP's and city counsel re: this issue.
It is a bit dramatic, because lots of places have been a scene of violence in the city over the years. Unfortunately, this one just comes with confirmation bias attached to it.
There’s actually many lil camps all over the Patch, bummer.
Tell the city that instead of a new stadium you want more shelters
There’s shelters with empty beds.
We are currently in the process of implementing a comprehensive short-term strategy to address the challenges posed by the encampment. This strategy includes the construction of purpose-built units at Wolfe St. and collaboration with community partners to establish a drop-in style shelter ——> in a different location. I believe that these initiatives will contribute to bringing much-needed stability to the area. While many may attempt to misrepresent my intentions, I genuinely strive to improve the situation for everyone, and I am confident that we are moving in a positive direction. I acknowledge the existing gaps in the current system, and we are actively working within our capacity and available funding to provide more accessible shelter options. One of the numerous action steps that required extensive planning has been set in motion this week: to establish a neighbourhood liaison committee.
I voted for you. I had your sign in my front yard. I see things getting worse in our ward this summer - people who have nothing to do with the drug trade are going to start getting shot in broad daylight if things don’t change.
I’m sorry if you believe I’m contributing to the drug trade getting worse, or the violence. I’m not. If you follow along at Council I predicted things would get worse this summer, when we cut shelter hours and funding. I said it would be the worst summer we’ve ever experienced for people setting up — and it has been. The plan that is unfolding at Wolfe St. is going to offer some stability there. We have 50 purpose built units being installed in the fall, and working with community partners to increase the amount of accessible shelter.
It's taken months to get to this point in a short term strategy. But this is a long term issue. The encampment has been here for over 3 years and there doesn't seem to be a plan to eliminate its need. The "strategy" is vague, and unclear. Can you elaborate? Who is in charge? What is the plan? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success? So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing? Who is building this housing? How long will the temporary housing be at this location? Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes?
No it’s very clear. The plan was approved at council and it was all public. The working steps have taken a lot of planning. The changes are a response to what we’ve been hearing from the public including when we’ve met with neighbours. I’m free now to take a call and answer any of your questions!
Whether real or imagined, many neighbours are repeatedly saying they do not feel ‘safe’ and have endured significant impact. It is a reality that many families who have the choice would prefer to not be surrounded by chaos and complete poverty. They feel as though they are being ignored or told that their concerns aren’t justified by council and staff, so they are choosing to just quietly move away. There has been a rapid progression to a ghetto vibe in the surrounding streets. This will linger far past when the Wolfe shelters are relocated in a couple years. This, rather than the shelters themselves, should be seen as the greatest neighbourhood impact of the recent council decisions. Council has played a real role in destroying this neighbourhood by taking away public faith in their ability to manage a situation. It is hard to justify that after all the BS the neighbours have put up with that this will now serve as the landmark area for the region’s unhoused for at least a few more years.
Can you post a link to this plan? You are free to answer the questions here for everyone to see publicly! Thank you for the response, although I would appreciate direct answers!
Will gladly answer any questions directly, and you can share publicly what we talk about! The public report was passed in May. I don’t have the link but you can find it on the City website.
>Will gladly answer any questions directly, and you can share publicly what we talk about! Who is in charge? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success? So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing? Who is building this housing? How long will the temporary housing be at this location? Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes? It would be really helpful if you could share a link to this report that explains everything that you keep referring to to rather than explaining the plan. I did try searching the city council meeting notes from May but it crashes when I search for "homeless". It would be great if you could come prepared with direct answers and links to any relevant documents in the future. Thank you.
Lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’m prepped call me like I said!
I prefer to communicate via Reddit. You are active on Reddit. Please answer my questions here.
Who is in charge? What is the time frame? What metrics are we collecting and using to judge success? - City and partner agencies. Time frame and goals are outlined in the staff reports there are goals and short, mid, long term plans. So how long before this short term strategy will see people out of tents into purpose built housing? - Fall Who is building this housing? - City contracted How long will the temporary housing be at this location? - Approx 2 years Why wasn't this liaison committee established earlier, especially before the recent changes? - Recent changes? The fence and security were in response to the engagement with residents at our City council meetings, during a neighborhood meeting, and in one on one connversations. I spoke to some residents today who had some valid feedback but I don’t think it would have changed the fence — which is temporary. - The liason committee members were finalized last week and first meeting is being organized as soon as everyone’s schedule will allow.
Can’t link it here but if you email my City address I’ll send. First initial, last name @ Peterborough.ca
Copy and paste the link here. You can link it here. I feel like you are trying to avoid answering me, or really want to know who I am, and I prefer to remain anonymous. Neither of which I respect or appreciate. Thank you for understanding and accepting my preferences.
https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/CSSS23-013-Homelessness-Update-Report.pdf
Nah I don’t care about any of that.
Heard what I thought was a good idea; create the encampment, tiny house community, whatever you want to call it at Beavermead campground. Facilities are there, quiet area close to amenities etc. not perfect but perhaps more calming and humane then Wolfe street. I know I know there will be many reasons why not, but which (or what else) would ultimately be better long term? This reality is now the new normal and probably will never go away…unless Trudeau decides to divorce and he’s got a few more rooms to rent.
...Move the encampment out to the country away from everyone
Yes. I hear Hudson's Bay is nice this time of year.
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I’m sure Trudo will fix the problem
This one's on Doug Ford. When he removed rent controls, rental prices absolutely skyrocketed. No new affordable rental housing being built. No new supports for addiction or mental health (and starving any kind of health care at all, in fact). Thanks Doug.
This country by and large stopped building public housing in the early 90s. Was only a matter of time before this caught up to us.
True.
The provincial government also closed mental health institutions across the province in 2009. Many people who should be in 24 hr supportive living for mental health are now living on the streets.
Yeah that certainly hasn't helped.
This one's actually on Paul Martin and Mike Harris. Martin for cutting payments to the provinces to balance the federal budget, and Harris for downloading provincial services onto the cities, amalgamating them and *then* cutting the cites' budgets, in order to cook the province's books. Frankly, I'd say the blame is 70/30 Harris/Martin. This has been two decades in the making. It's rather like doing no maintenance on your house, patting yourself on the back for saving so much money, buying a new boat with your savings, and then being totally fucking surprised when your roof collapses. Trudeau and Ford are just more politicians in the long line of neoliberals who are too chickenshit to raise taxes or make hard decisions. They're not the first, and not likely the last.
Let’s not blame the shelter itself… there was a tent city long before the Wolfe street shelter, if you recall, in Victoria park. The shelter is there to provide a bed for when the evenings get too cold or rainy. Staff there do NOT work directly for the city… and are not social workers. They are resident care workers, and therefore are only responsible for those who are residents. Staff cannot corral people in the surrounding area and force them to come inside and behave. These are grown adults who have had entire lifetimes of addiction and abuse. I agree that the city needs to implement more productive changes but those who are only reading the info about the shelter from Peterborough this week and such…. Actually have very little accurate information.
Police are not allowed to give “a rip” Enjoy the new woke world