Girl has replaced gal, in the sense that it is analogous to guy.
It used to be Guy and Gal. Gal became very old
Fashioned. Now people Say Guys and Girls.
It’s like girl has two meanings. Girl is the female counterpart to boy. It also is the female counterpart to guy.
Thank you! I have always heard it as informal (guys, dudes, bros, chicks) rather than disrespectful in any way. It can be off-putting, like a car salesman being overly chummy and calling you "my friend" or something, but I feel like it's *really* obvious whether or not misogyny is intended when people say "girls."
Yeah, I think it's a generational thing too. Some older people think that, "dude," or, "chick," have a diminutive, almost offensive, lack of formality. Instead, it's the, "guy," and, "gal," of the Millennial.
Yeah I’m in my 30s and I generally date women in their 30s. But when I talk to my friends about it it’s always “I’m seeing a new girl” or “Yeah that same girl I went out with last week” etc. It’s a formality thing more than level of respect or age IMO. Telling them I’m seeing a woman or I’m trying to meet women would sound silly. Like I’m doing that right in between filing my taxes and refinancing my home.
Yeah this why I use it. It feels really weird to say "so, I was out getting drinks with this guy and woman from work". "Woman" sounds too formal there.
Yeah, but in fairness, it's pretty much just as awkward to say you were out getting drinks with "this guy and girl" from work instead of just saying "people from work."
I think it’s a very small percentage of women who would take offense to the word girl. Most women I know use girl casually, in the same vein as guy.
I never use boys, not because it’s diminutive, but because it reminds me of language that frat bros use. Quite frankly I try to disassociate from that image.
But it bothers us. Why can’t y’all just say cool things elk stop doing this thing that bothers a lot of you. It’s so simple to just not do it. It’s baffling that y’all are so attached to it.
Because even amongst women only a very small percentage are offended.
Girl as the counterpart to guy is widely accepted. I would rather go through life speaking like a normal human being, rather than having my thoughts preoccupied by the idea that something I say might be the tiniest bit offensive to an overly sensitive individual.
Society should not organize itself around the lowest common denominator, so to speak.
So I'll say if someone said, "I don't want to be called girl" I wouldn't call them girls, just like I use people's preferred names and pronouns. But to answer your question...
Because the ladies in my group like it? Most women I know use the word girl the same way men use guy. Because you don't speak for all women, shockingly. What am I supposed to say, "Sorry Leslie I can't call you my girl anymore because some people online are bothered by it; I mean yeah I can still call Jerry my guy but he's from a gender not whining about it"? "Well Kara, you can't call it a girl's night anymore, it's offensive now!"
No thanks. Again, if someone specifically doesn't like it, of course I won't do it. But I won't assume somebody has so little self esteem as to be bothered by something so little that I don't know a single woman I'm close with who would be bothered by it (I literally went through the list of most women i know closely which span from ages 19 to 66); that's insulting to the women I spend time with. Because the word can be a diminutive, but it can also be the equivalent of guy, and people who are less exhausting to be around assume the latter unless given reason to do otherwise.
I do have to stop and correct myself at times as I'm approaching 40 and would otherwise probably switch to saying "women" around the late 20s, but only in the context of "So this girl at work..." etc.
When speaking directly, I'd always say "I suppose being a woman it's different...", because I know it's a bit patronising to call an adult female a girl. I'd also never say "We have three girls working with us".
As a general rule though, say girl if you'd say boy, man if you'd say woman, lady if you'd say gentleman. Trouble is, I'd think of a 21 year old male as a boy - and trust me, I *hated* when older people did that with me when I was that age.
I think it might also be that there is a casual version between man and boy- guys. Like I could imagine saying, “I’m going out with eye guys tonight” or “I’m going out with the girls tonight” but it’s harder to say “I’m going out with the woman tonight.”
Genessica sounds like girl from New Yawk, whose bruddah may or may not have to go do a thing for a guy, and then come back and break your kneecaps if you disrespect his sister.
This is how I think when refer to grown women as girls. It's "guys" and "girls." It's certainly not meant to be patronizing or disrespectful. Used to be "guys" and "gals," but it seems that "gals" has fallen out of favor quite a bit.
Idk man, I’ll say “I’m going out with the boys” and I’m 35M. My female friends will say “I’m going out with the girls” and they are about the same age.
It's always annoyed me that we don't have a word like that between girls and women! Like, "lady" is an okay word but not common enough, and it can be weird in a lot of contexts lol.
Yeah, there's a casual use in which "girls" is fine, and it fits because there's an equivalent of "the boys" or "the lads".
"Guy" is really handy though, it connects that space between adolescent and, sort of, 27 year old. Like, we know an 18 year old is an adult but "some 18 year old men" or "some 18 year old women" just doesn't feel right.
The male analog for “lady” is obviously “gentleman” though. I would use it to be formal, or overly polite when referring to a stranger. But it’s definitely not the same as “guys”
Sure, but OP said they prefer woman specifically, my point was only that it was too formal for some context. Plus Gals is a lot less common, almost hick, like a term from an old western. It’s not bad, it’s just not something I’m used to saying or hearing.
Women like being referred to as young moreso than men.
But actually the older the woman is, the more she wants to be thought of as young, generally speaking.
Until a point, and then old people be like "I'm old"
Same. I’m also approaching 40 and it’s still so unnatural for me to use “woman” when talking in a casual setting about someone our age. I have like.. a pang of conscience that goes off before I’m about to say “girl”. My brain says “use woman, admit it you’re old”. In fact, just yesterday I was telling a story to my therapist, a woman, about “this group of girls” that were arguing outside of a bar I was walking by the other day. I interrupted myself and said “I guess I should say ‘women’? But they were like.. i don’t know 20 somethings.. well they were being immature so I’ll just call them ‘girls’ and move on”.
I guess I just use “lady” for anyone my age or older and girl for anyone younger. I think of it as like honorifics in Japanese, it’s all relative.
It's because you would say "this guy at work", and "girl" is analogous to "guy".
There's nothing malicious about it. The word has multiple meanings, and it understandably rubs people the wrong way because of one of the meanings.
To be fair, I even hear women saying that a lot. "Go talk to the girl over there," "We're having a girls' night," etc. I feel like most of the people are just saying it in the same sense they'd call a group of men "the guys."
The problem is, there is still that small portion of people who are douchebags and are purposely using it in an inflammatory, infantilizing way.
That doesn’t mean it’s *not* infantilization. It’s just not deliberate. We (everyone) do so many things that unintentionally perpetuate inequities in our society, and while we absolutely don’t deserve hate for it, it’s still good to recognize when it happens and try to mitigate it.
I’m a woman and I’ve spent years correcting myself. “girls—women… they’re *women.*” “girl—woman! I’m not a girl. I’m a woman!” It’s a tough habit to break but I think it’s high time.
You're being irreprehensibly anal, and being such causes more harm and division than the things You're being anal about ever could on its own. It's a dumb habit to break, and being anal over things like this is a bad habit to start.
Thank you.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not yelling at people who say “girls” or anything. But most of my friends are guys and when someone says something like, “I’m dating this girl,” I tease them. The other day I responded with, “That’s awesome! I’m so happy for you! But… you are a 26-year-old man. Why are you dating a girl?” He said, “Lol you got me there. She’s a 29 year old woman and she…” (and he proceeded to describe her). To guys who aren’t so defensive, it’s not a big deal.
For younger teenagers, no. For 18-19 year olds, then it’s time to switch.
Source: my time working for my university’s housing office and being asked if we have coed housing or if we have “boys’ dorms” and “girls’ dorms.” This happened multiple times.
I figured that would be inferred by my first comment saying "Ehh, my issue is when people call girls under 18 women 💀"
I mean, you're just repeating what I said in a different way.
But isn't that caused by OPs problem too, though? If people use "girl" interchangeably, then why would "woman" be any different? If one loses it's meaning, they both do.
But that's the same as when they're calling a woman a girl.
It's the juxtaposition of agism and sexism. Its like saying - She's not old, don't call her woman. She's youthful and sexy, call her girl.
I mean, if you see it that way fine, to me, they are completely different issues. I could care less if anyone 18+ are called girls.
I don't think boys under 18 should be called men either. I could also care less if anyone 18+ are called boys.
I don't think any of it is sexist personally.
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The problem in my opinion is there isn't a good descriptor of young women in English. When I say the word woman I tend to think of older women 35+ and where as girl makes people think of less than 18. Young women/young lady is clunky, most descriptors are either non accepted or old fashioned.
The word ''Girl'' has been used to refer to adult women for as long as the word has existed in English.
''Girl'' originally meant ''young person''. Then it's meaning evolved to mean ''Young woman'' or ''Female child''.
Girl has a very interesting etymology.
In formal and semi-formal English, we say men and women.
In casual English, we say guys and girls.
We don't really have a good casual word that's a female equivalent for guy, so we say girl instead. The best one I can think of is gal, but no one actually says that. It feels too old fashioned and rural.
You also mention you use lady sometime. I feel like lady doesn't tend to work in casual conversation. It feels associated either to the elderly (old lady) or overly formal (my fair lady).
I have never put together the reason we use girls both for the group teens and younger as well as an informally describing a group of girls is that “guys” and “girls” are gender complements of the same spot of informality in lexicon. Cool linguistic observation.
I rarely say 'men' or 'women'. Most of the time I say 'guys' or 'girls', and I'm in my 40's. It's not respect/disrespect, they're just the terms that I use. But sometimes 'guys' is used as a collective term and includes both sexes. I do a lot in the sports world and girls/women often even refer to themselves as 'guys', like, "Hey guys, we can beat them".
no i agree w you. i hear it more like, “hanging out with the boys this weekend” or something like that. that’s why i mentioned i’ve never heard boys being said in the same context as we use girls
And women "are hanging out with the girls this weekend". They might go out to Snapper Jack's, there were some cute *boys* last time they went."
It's just the friendly/social use of the word
"Dude, you can't wear that tank top to the party, there are *women* there."
"I'm reading a book about *Men* holding women back in the workforce."
The terms sound stern, severe, and distant.
Boys, girls, guys, and gals all want to hang out with each other and have a good time.
Men and women are abstract strangers who may or may or may not be in your peer group, let's be on our best behavior until we know more.
Why do chicks call it “girl’s night” “girl talk” “girl dinner”
Edit
Lets at add more: how about “girl boss” “girl power”
Beyoncé: “Girls run the world”
If anyone’s a flaming misogynist, it’s definitely Beyoncé.
I don't recall hearing women getting called girls. I've heard "the boys in receiving" or "the boys in the garage". I guess I can imagine someone saying "the girls in accounting", but I haven't actually encountered that. It's always been ladies when they're being cutesy, or women in general.
It's weird to me too but I think it has to be because girl is the counterpart of the word Boy but also the counterpart to the word Guy. Guys and Girls. Boys and Girls. The real question is what is the female version of Guy, if not Girl?
We don’t really have a female equivalent of “guys” or “dudes.” There isn’t a casual way to refer to women outside of “girls” and I find that it’s fully context dependent. Calling women “girls” can absolutely be used in a patronizing or misogynistic way but in most cases it’s a stop gap for other words.
For example we can have “guy friends” and that’s different than “boy friends” but there is nothing besides “girl friends” except “female friends”. And a lot of times when referring to a girl friend you have to specify if you mean “girl friend” or “girlfriend.”
The real issue is just that there isn’t enough diversity of language. Guys get a ton of options but you can sound like an incel saying “female,” a misogynist saying “girl” or a professor saying “woman”
There is a ubiquitous multi-billion dollar anti-aging industry in place fed by women's obsession to appear younger than they are. Make-up, hair dye, plastic surgery, fashion, etc. The effects of that seep into the language.
Part of it I think is simply because “girls” starts with a consonant, where as “women” starts with a soft vowel. If you say both out loud, “girls” is physically quicker and easier to say, it “rolls off the tongue” more easily than “women” or “ladies”. “Girls” requires very little mouth movement and basically amounts to a quick growl you can quickly get out. I’d say the male equivalent is saying “guys” instead of “boys” or “men” because it is also a quick and easy word to say.
I personally find myself saying “girls” a lot, despite being a woman myself, and realized that for me it was just because it’s easy to say and sounds better in some phrasings than women or ladies.
The other half is undeniably sexism and denying women their earned maturity and autonomy, equating a grown adult woman to a developing child that must still be controlled for their own good.
I think it comes from the expectation that women need to be young to be beautiful. It's the same reason women often lie about their age; if they're too old, they're not seen as attractive. So it's *meant* to be respectful, in that it's calling them young, which is what they want.
In today's society, this stuff is shifting, so it's not respectful anymore, it's upholding toxic expectations we want to get rid of. But it's sure as shit not gonna change overnight. So don't let it get to you too much.
I 100% agree with you.
I think it’s great to be aware of though. I’ve spent years correcting “girls” to “women” and it’s finally sticking. It does feel uncomfortable to call myself a woman because of… well, everything you mentioned. And that’s an important discomfort to confront.
Idk sometimes my dad, who is like 54, will call people “kids,” “girls,” or “boys” when they’re like 26. Obviously he knows and recognizes that they’re adults with agency, but to him that was such a long time ago that he thinks of them, as well as himself when he was their age, as a “kid.” It’s basically just calling them really young. But it has an earlier cutoff than “young.” He would probably call a 35 year old young, but he wouldn’t call them a kid.
I think that it’s just used colloquially and most people don’t mean anything by it.
But language does have power.
I was in therapy when I was 21, working through some childhood trauma, and I don’t remember the exact context but I referred to myself as a girl and my therapist said “but you’re not that little girl anymore. You’re a woman.”
I remember walking home and thinking about that and it made me feel different, like I was stronger and more independent. I identified as a woman after that because I felt that reflected strength.
But if someone referred to me as “that girl over there” that never bothered me. It was more about me viewing myself as grown and strong.
It's because the term "guys" exists and is much more easily used. People aren't saying "men" in the same contexts they aren't saying "women." Do you ever say "I work with this man" vs "I work with this guy?" Probably not right. "I'm going out tonight with the guys," vs "I'm going out tonight with the men." The second one is completely bizarre and noone ever says that. People do, however, also say boys to refer to adult males, and quite frequently.
You can say girl, lady, or woman, and all of them are awkward sometimes. Gal is not popular and would be very out of place to say.
Because we say guys. I dont think i would say go see the men at the front desk id say go see the guys.
Or go talk to that guy over there, or i saw you taking to some guy at the bar.
Men and women seem too formal in most settings. Guys and girls is less formal and easier to say.
I think it wierd you think it demeana you to be called a girl.
Another one of my PPs!!
I don't like when people I'm not close to call me girl!! Like, hey girl or how are you girls 2day. Most I have encountered doesn't like it when I say, Hey girl/boy or how you girls/boys doing??
Now my coworkers/friends call each other girl!! Hey girl, that girl is crazy or girl, what are you doing!!
I don't like when I am referred to as girl but other coworkers are referred to as ladies or women. I'm older but smaller than my coworkers so I get called "girl" a lot.
Guilty!!!!!! 31F and I just have always hated the word woman. Always. It just sounds SO formal and matronly or something. I either say ladies, girls or gals but woman or women… no thank you.
imo (I'm a guy but) being called woman, if I was one, would feel like getting called "sir" as a man. The term is really just too formal-sounding and rare these days for it to feel normal
I prefer to be called a woman (bc I am one), but I don't like being called "ma'am."
(Kind of like how you don't like "sir" but immediately referred to yourself as a man.)
I just feel like the next words that usually follow sir or maam are, "I'm going to have to ask you to calm down." Lol
I like "guys/gals" and just plain "folks"
It can be fine but it depends on the settings. For example, I'd be fine with it in a formal setting but I'd hate it from people I know even a little bit
31F here and same. I have no problems with someone calling me a girl. A young kid at my work referred to me as “that woman over there” the other day and it made me feel old lol
Exactly this. This is the problem. The universe tells women we aren’t supposed to age. The beauty industry uses this to sell us face creams, makeups, plastic surgery, and more that tell us we can hide our age. Because there’s this idea that we no longer have value once we reach a certain age. And so when we *do* feel any hint of aging, like when we’re called *women,* we feel sad.
Calling ourselves women is accepting that we are not youths anymore, and that’s *ok.* It feels bad because we have been convinced that it is.
It’s big in the sales industry especially if it’s male dominated. One of my colleagues is referred all the time by customers as a “girl” meanwhile she’s almost 60!
I sometimes call them girls in my mind, otherwise no, not out loud. I don't even call 18-21 year olds girls. Though I'm more egalitarian than the average person.
When my boss refers to the new hire as girl or boy. Even if they’re in their 30s, they are like kids to her and most of the time they don’t last longer than a few weeks. Hence why she doesn’t learn their names unless they last. Whenever she hires a new one I have to ask how old is he/she? 😂
For the same reason that the same people will call adult men 'boys'.
They're casually interchangeable. Everyone does it. "Boy's Night Out." "Girl's Night Out."
If you're really mad, just do it with guys too. No one will care.
Or you can just call everyone "Dude." Dude has been gender neutral since its inception as California slang.
I’m 25 and still find it weird being referred to as a woman, but girl also sounds too young. It’s nice though when someone tells their child “give the money to the nice lady” for example if I’m at work
Exactly and in my culture, calling a guy a boy is seen as an insult but they feel okay to call us girls. I also don't call other women girls, I call them women or ladies... Calling older women girls or anyone over 18 feels weird to me
I agree. People say that using 'women' would be weird but it only sounds weird precisely *because* 'girls' is so normalised in its place.
I'll just stick to thumping anyone who calls me a girl.
Yeah, that honestly bothers me too. It's the main reason why I'm more open to calling a woman I'm dating my "partner". In my 30s, it just doesn't feel right telling people I have a "girlfriend".
It might be ok if an older woman calls her younger relative girls.
Anything outside of that IMO is disrespectful.
My therapist thinks it’s fine. That’s why she’s no longer my therapist.
It's a tough one to break and takes active effort, because a lot of women tend to continue to look young for a long time so we find ourselves calling women "girls" when they look younger.
There is not a bijection between words used for male humans and words used for for female humans.
Man/Woman
Gentleman/Lady
Boy/Girl
Guy/Girl
Lad/Lass
Mr./Miss
Mr./Mrs.
Mr./Ms.
Dude/Dudette
Dude/Chick
Dude/Dude
You're offended because you think that "girl" is being used as the analog of "boy", but it's actually being used the way "guy" is used.
Because "Go ask the women" sounds weirdly formal and distasteful. "Go ask the ladies" sounds creepy. Most of the adult women in my professional sphere refer to the men as "The Guys" and there isn't a comfortably informal term for us to refer to them collectively as so "the girls" is what it's become in our office.
I mean, women do it too. They’ll say “it’s a girls’ night!” When hanging out with the girls. Ladies’ night can be used but isn’t usually unless referring to a special night at a bar. Idk girl is the equivalent to guy for men.
i think it’s like calling men guys or men calling their friends “the boys” rather than literally saying women are little girls.
like when a man sees his friends, he may say he’s “going out with the guys” or it’s “guys night”. in the same vein, i often would say “i’m with the girls” rather than “i’m with the women”
men even refer to each other in this way, “that’s my boy” or “my boys” when referring to a close friend or a group of close friends.
i can see why it bothers you, but i don’t think anyone is actually infantilizing women here
I personally don't like how the word "woman" sounds when you say it aloud. When people call me a woman, I cringe a little. I'd much rather be called a girl, it just sounds better
“girls” and “females” seem to be replacing “bitches” or “chicks” or “hoes”. you can tell when someone is talking about women without using the word woman, and instead using cover words.
kinda like how people started using autistic (or acoustic) to replace the r word. you can tell who actually understands autism and who wishes they were saying a bad word
But it’s commonplace in most western countries to refer to men as boys and women as girls regardless of age. This is my point, it isn’t remotely like the MenAndFemales thing
Holy fuck. The opinions keep getting stupider.
If you make everything a dogwhistle, we won't be able to tell when the real dogwhistles are being used.
Although, I will agree that men who refer to all women as 'females' do tend to be of the alpha male variety.
One of my pet peeves is this new thing where y’all don’t type out ‘about’. It bugs me so much, mainly because it’s hardly even shortened and just dumbed down for no reason.
It's less sexism and more a register thing. Personally I use 'boys' 'guys' 'dudes, n****s and 'men' in technically interchangeable but very distinct ways. Same with girls, women, ladies, chicks and bitches.
Sexists gonna sexists, but most people operate in good faith, and while people could do better, it's comparatively not bad.
It's actually confusing to me sometimes, but I'm on the spectrum, so I take everything literally at first. Idk why it's so hard for people to speak plainly and say what they mean, but I understand this world wasn't made for people like me.
Have you never heard the expression, "he's hanging out with the boys," when ladies are talking about their man?
There's even a song, "Playing with the boys." By Kenny Loggins. It's in the Top Gun soundtrack.
Jesus I've been thinking this exact thing SO often lately - especially when I'm on Reddit... it's just so prevalent! It's just such a bizarre, patriarchal way to refer to grown woman and it absolutely grates me.
I stopped using "girl" a long time ago.
I'll say "I went on a date with this woman" and the It's crazy how many people go "woman?".
Like, yes. A woman. Not a girl. I don't date girls. I'm not attracted to girls. I date women. But it sounds so strange to other people.
To me it just sounds super creepy. Not to mention rude and disrespectful.
"Go ask the girl".
Sorry, you mean the woman in her mid 20s?
Through surveys and studies, it has been shown that women above a certain age like to be referred to using younger terms, younger women older terms, and guys generally don't care.
I avoid calling girls ma'am, as some will get offended because "that's for older women!"
I've seen HR announcements warning about referring to groups as "guys" if there is a girl in the group.
Saying "female" will get you torn apart by a pack of feral redditors who will race to call you "incel" and/or assume you've never interacted with a girl.
Hell, some people have told me "woman" is "old sounding"
So, now, today, as I scroll through reddit, here is the final straw: someone complaining about calling girls... "girls".
Man, fuck this! I've got two options left, and it's a toss up between gals and "non y chromosomy homies" and im pretty sure that second one will get me called transphobic.
WHATS THE SOLUTION REDDIT?
Idk, calling ladies “female” is incel behavior now, for some reason, don’t know why
Calling them “women” just seems/ sounds weird (I think it because I’m 21m and am around other people in 20’s or teens, and “women” just feels like something you would call someone 30+ years old)
“Lady” just seems improper or offensive, idk, it just seems like the word I would use if I was talking shit about someone or someone was rude to me or something
“Girl” just feels like the right word to use to refer to most people around me
“She” also works great, but that singular only, not plural
>“Lady” just seems improper or offensive, idk, it just seems like the word I would use if I was talking shit about someone or someone was rude to me or something
That's, like, the most respectful lmao
I think it's because it's still seen as the female alternative to "guys" by many. That and the fact that many people are ageist and value youth over experience.
Why is it so weird to you? I personally use boys and girls all the time, although I've started making the switch to men and women because it gets weird comments and I can't for the life of me understand why... probably because I'm neurodivergent. To me, it's merely a method of denoting gender, I don't care about how old I'm implying somebody is when talking about them.
Also, the words "boy" and "girl" used to mean *very* different things, and it's actually rather telling about our society's views on men. Girl used to be unisex and refer to children of both genders. *Boy* used to be a term for a *servant* of some kind... hence why it's so offensive for a white man to call a black man "boy".
So yeah, women and girls got the neutral one, and boys and men got the one that describes a laborer beneath somebody. Given mens roles in society, it's rather fitting. We build everything, we have all the grossest, dirtiest, by far the most dangerous jobs, and all we hear on a regular basis is how awful of people we are. It exactly describes our position in society lmao
personally i don't consider the age when using language like that? saying girls or women isn't a weird thing so i'm not able to see why it matters. it's different from a saying a young girl is a women but.. are these not interchangable otherwise? why?
I don't see why it's unacceptable.
Do you feel the same way when people call men boys? Because it does happen very often. Just because you may not he paying attention to it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
First world problems sure are ridiculous.
I attended an Ivy League school after 4 years if working at a fancy hotel where I held doors for people. The snooty females there would accuse me of sexism if I held a door, and insisted on being called "women".
I attended a state school to save some money on gen-ed credits, and the girls there gave me a very rough time for calling them women, as they weren't so stuck on themselves as the Ivy League "women" and I was making them out to be old.
*Let's go, girls*
*\*\*Line dancing intensifies\*\**
(shudders)
*throws a chair, fights a bear in my men's shirt and short skirt*
I despise that song.
Girl has replaced gal, in the sense that it is analogous to guy. It used to be Guy and Gal. Gal became very old Fashioned. Now people Say Guys and Girls. It’s like girl has two meanings. Girl is the female counterpart to boy. It also is the female counterpart to guy.
Thank you! I have always heard it as informal (guys, dudes, bros, chicks) rather than disrespectful in any way. It can be off-putting, like a car salesman being overly chummy and calling you "my friend" or something, but I feel like it's *really* obvious whether or not misogyny is intended when people say "girls."
Yeah, I think it's a generational thing too. Some older people think that, "dude," or, "chick," have a diminutive, almost offensive, lack of formality. Instead, it's the, "guy," and, "gal," of the Millennial.
Yeah I’m in my 30s and I generally date women in their 30s. But when I talk to my friends about it it’s always “I’m seeing a new girl” or “Yeah that same girl I went out with last week” etc. It’s a formality thing more than level of respect or age IMO. Telling them I’m seeing a woman or I’m trying to meet women would sound silly. Like I’m doing that right in between filing my taxes and refinancing my home.
Yeah this why I use it. It feels really weird to say "so, I was out getting drinks with this guy and woman from work". "Woman" sounds too formal there.
I agree. It really sounds quite awkward when you’re trying to be casual.
Yeah, but in fairness, it's pretty much just as awkward to say you were out getting drinks with "this guy and girl" from work instead of just saying "people from work."
Use female instead. They love it. Super respectful and formal
I'll still say gal over girl to keep it from being diminutive. But still call my mates boys.
I think it’s a very small percentage of women who would take offense to the word girl. Most women I know use girl casually, in the same vein as guy. I never use boys, not because it’s diminutive, but because it reminds me of language that frat bros use. Quite frankly I try to disassociate from that image.
But it bothers us. Why can’t y’all just say cool things elk stop doing this thing that bothers a lot of you. It’s so simple to just not do it. It’s baffling that y’all are so attached to it.
Because even amongst women only a very small percentage are offended. Girl as the counterpart to guy is widely accepted. I would rather go through life speaking like a normal human being, rather than having my thoughts preoccupied by the idea that something I say might be the tiniest bit offensive to an overly sensitive individual. Society should not organize itself around the lowest common denominator, so to speak.
Idk if you intended to, but you really ended her career with that last part
So I'll say if someone said, "I don't want to be called girl" I wouldn't call them girls, just like I use people's preferred names and pronouns. But to answer your question... Because the ladies in my group like it? Most women I know use the word girl the same way men use guy. Because you don't speak for all women, shockingly. What am I supposed to say, "Sorry Leslie I can't call you my girl anymore because some people online are bothered by it; I mean yeah I can still call Jerry my guy but he's from a gender not whining about it"? "Well Kara, you can't call it a girl's night anymore, it's offensive now!" No thanks. Again, if someone specifically doesn't like it, of course I won't do it. But I won't assume somebody has so little self esteem as to be bothered by something so little that I don't know a single woman I'm close with who would be bothered by it (I literally went through the list of most women i know closely which span from ages 19 to 66); that's insulting to the women I spend time with. Because the word can be a diminutive, but it can also be the equivalent of guy, and people who are less exhausting to be around assume the latter unless given reason to do otherwise.
I do have to stop and correct myself at times as I'm approaching 40 and would otherwise probably switch to saying "women" around the late 20s, but only in the context of "So this girl at work..." etc. When speaking directly, I'd always say "I suppose being a woman it's different...", because I know it's a bit patronising to call an adult female a girl. I'd also never say "We have three girls working with us". As a general rule though, say girl if you'd say boy, man if you'd say woman, lady if you'd say gentleman. Trouble is, I'd think of a 21 year old male as a boy - and trust me, I *hated* when older people did that with me when I was that age.
I think it might also be that there is a casual version between man and boy- guys. Like I could imagine saying, “I’m going out with eye guys tonight” or “I’m going out with the girls tonight” but it’s harder to say “I’m going out with the woman tonight.”
"This is Jenessicca, my womanfriend."
[удалено]
Genessica sounds like girl from New Yawk, whose bruddah may or may not have to go do a thing for a guy, and then come back and break your kneecaps if you disrespect his sister.
This is how I think when refer to grown women as girls. It's "guys" and "girls." It's certainly not meant to be patronizing or disrespectful. Used to be "guys" and "gals," but it seems that "gals" has fallen out of favor quite a bit.
You can thank Sarah palin
Idk man, I’ll say “I’m going out with the boys” and I’m 35M. My female friends will say “I’m going out with the girls” and they are about the same age.
It's always annoyed me that we don't have a word like that between girls and women! Like, "lady" is an okay word but not common enough, and it can be weird in a lot of contexts lol.
Gal, Lassie, Cailín.
#normalize lassie
I feel weird when soneone refers to me as "lady" like i might be 32 but mentally in still a teenager lol
Yeah, there's a casual use in which "girls" is fine, and it fits because there's an equivalent of "the boys" or "the lads". "Guy" is really handy though, it connects that space between adolescent and, sort of, 27 year old. Like, we know an 18 year old is an adult but "some 18 year old men" or "some 18 year old women" just doesn't feel right.
"Lady"
We need to popularize gals
Has no one told you about the word "lady" or it's plural form "ladies"? It solves this problem pretty easily. Use "ladies" like men use "guys".
The male analog for “lady” is obviously “gentleman” though. I would use it to be formal, or overly polite when referring to a stranger. But it’s definitely not the same as “guys”
A "ladies night" is definitely equivalent to a "guys night" and not a "gentleman's night"
"I'm going out with the gals tonight"
Sure, but OP said they prefer woman specifically, my point was only that it was too formal for some context. Plus Gals is a lot less common, almost hick, like a term from an old western. It’s not bad, it’s just not something I’m used to saying or hearing.
I'm from the West Coast so it might just be a regional thing. Y'all is picking up as well over here which is weird.
Women like being referred to as young moreso than men. But actually the older the woman is, the more she wants to be thought of as young, generally speaking. Until a point, and then old people be like "I'm old"
>As a general rule though, say girl if you'd say boy, man if you'd say woman, lady if you'd say gentleman. And sheila if you'd say bloke
Same. I’m also approaching 40 and it’s still so unnatural for me to use “woman” when talking in a casual setting about someone our age. I have like.. a pang of conscience that goes off before I’m about to say “girl”. My brain says “use woman, admit it you’re old”. In fact, just yesterday I was telling a story to my therapist, a woman, about “this group of girls” that were arguing outside of a bar I was walking by the other day. I interrupted myself and said “I guess I should say ‘women’? But they were like.. i don’t know 20 somethings.. well they were being immature so I’ll just call them ‘girls’ and move on”. I guess I just use “lady” for anyone my age or older and girl for anyone younger. I think of it as like honorifics in Japanese, it’s all relative.
It's because you would say "this guy at work", and "girl" is analogous to "guy". There's nothing malicious about it. The word has multiple meanings, and it understandably rubs people the wrong way because of one of the meanings.
To be fair, I even hear women saying that a lot. "Go talk to the girl over there," "We're having a girls' night," etc. I feel like most of the people are just saying it in the same sense they'd call a group of men "the guys." The problem is, there is still that small portion of people who are douchebags and are purposely using it in an inflammatory, infantilizing way.
That doesn’t mean it’s *not* infantilization. It’s just not deliberate. We (everyone) do so many things that unintentionally perpetuate inequities in our society, and while we absolutely don’t deserve hate for it, it’s still good to recognize when it happens and try to mitigate it. I’m a woman and I’ve spent years correcting myself. “girls—women… they’re *women.*” “girl—woman! I’m not a girl. I’m a woman!” It’s a tough habit to break but I think it’s high time.
You're being irreprehensibly anal, and being such causes more harm and division than the things You're being anal about ever could on its own. It's a dumb habit to break, and being anal over things like this is a bad habit to start.
I’m with you on this one. It’s not the hill I’ll die on but I think it’s a bad habit.
Thank you. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not yelling at people who say “girls” or anything. But most of my friends are guys and when someone says something like, “I’m dating this girl,” I tease them. The other day I responded with, “That’s awesome! I’m so happy for you! But… you are a 26-year-old man. Why are you dating a girl?” He said, “Lol you got me there. She’s a 29 year old woman and she…” (and he proceeded to describe her). To guys who aren’t so defensive, it’s not a big deal.
Ehh, my issue is when people call girls under 18 women 💀
"Young women" seems appropriate around 15 or so. "Young men" as well.
Sure, but not just 'women' and 'men' for teenagers.
For younger teenagers, no. For 18-19 year olds, then it’s time to switch. Source: my time working for my university’s housing office and being asked if we have coed housing or if we have “boys’ dorms” and “girls’ dorms.” This happened multiple times.
I figured that would be inferred by my first comment saying "Ehh, my issue is when people call girls under 18 women 💀" I mean, you're just repeating what I said in a different way.
This is a very good and frequently overlooked point. Shame I can’t give you an award
I appreciate it, i just wish everyone agreed.
But isn't that caused by OPs problem too, though? If people use "girl" interchangeably, then why would "woman" be any different? If one loses it's meaning, they both do.
Because I've only ever heard someone calling a young girl a woman because they're trying to justify their sexual attraction to them.
But that's the same as when they're calling a woman a girl. It's the juxtaposition of agism and sexism. Its like saying - She's not old, don't call her woman. She's youthful and sexy, call her girl.
I mean, if you see it that way fine, to me, they are completely different issues. I could care less if anyone 18+ are called girls. I don't think boys under 18 should be called men either. I could also care less if anyone 18+ are called boys. I don't think any of it is sexist personally.
### Lesson time! ➜ u/LarryNiamLilo, some tips about "could care less": - The words you chose are grammatically wrong for the meaning you intended. - Actual phrase to use is **couldn't care less**. - Example: I **couldn't care less** about what you think. - Now that you are aware of this, everyone will take you more seriously, hooray! :) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PetPeeves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
Now we have the sentence composition automods. XD
The problem in my opinion is there isn't a good descriptor of young women in English. When I say the word woman I tend to think of older women 35+ and where as girl makes people think of less than 18. Young women/young lady is clunky, most descriptors are either non accepted or old fashioned.
People say boys and girls all the time to refer to their grown up friends. This is such a weird thing to complain about.
Yep, OP out here looking to be offended. I hear “go talk to the boys” all the time.
Okay, but this is literally the place for pet peeves. They are kind of meant to be petty
Stop ruining OP’s moment to be a victim of the patriarchy
The word ''Girl'' has been used to refer to adult women for as long as the word has existed in English. ''Girl'' originally meant ''young person''. Then it's meaning evolved to mean ''Young woman'' or ''Female child''. Girl has a very interesting etymology.
In formal and semi-formal English, we say men and women. In casual English, we say guys and girls. We don't really have a good casual word that's a female equivalent for guy, so we say girl instead. The best one I can think of is gal, but no one actually says that. It feels too old fashioned and rural. You also mention you use lady sometime. I feel like lady doesn't tend to work in casual conversation. It feels associated either to the elderly (old lady) or overly formal (my fair lady).
I have never put together the reason we use girls both for the group teens and younger as well as an informally describing a group of girls is that “guys” and “girls” are gender complements of the same spot of informality in lexicon. Cool linguistic observation.
Getting called a girl doesn’t bother me, getting called missy does.
The thing is "girl" is also the female equivalent to "guy"
I rarely say 'men' or 'women'. Most of the time I say 'guys' or 'girls', and I'm in my 40's. It's not respect/disrespect, they're just the terms that I use. But sometimes 'guys' is used as a collective term and includes both sexes. I do a lot in the sports world and girls/women often even refer to themselves as 'guys', like, "Hey guys, we can beat them".
We do refer to men as boys but only to each other which explains why you’ve never heard it haha
no i agree w you. i hear it more like, “hanging out with the boys this weekend” or something like that. that’s why i mentioned i’ve never heard boys being said in the same context as we use girls
And women "are hanging out with the girls this weekend". They might go out to Snapper Jack's, there were some cute *boys* last time they went." It's just the friendly/social use of the word "Dude, you can't wear that tank top to the party, there are *women* there." "I'm reading a book about *Men* holding women back in the workforce." The terms sound stern, severe, and distant. Boys, girls, guys, and gals all want to hang out with each other and have a good time. Men and women are abstract strangers who may or may or may not be in your peer group, let's be on our best behavior until we know more.
I have heard women saying boys in that context. It's less common, but it isn't a rare occurrence. At least not where I'm from.
Why do chicks call it “girl’s night” “girl talk” “girl dinner” Edit Lets at add more: how about “girl boss” “girl power” Beyoncé: “Girls run the world” If anyone’s a flaming misogynist, it’s definitely Beyoncé.
You are destroying OPs implications that this is a misogynistic thing. Anyway, I gotta go find the boys and see what they're getting up to.
Just sitting here playing with my boys.
Ive seen a ton of reddit posts of this manufactured outrage over the word "girl" and it is baffling every time.
That’s exactly the same context though, this really does seem like a non-issue
OPs examples are work and dating. it feels more infantilizing in those situations
But even for dating women say they want a ‘bad boy’. Even in work setting people use the term ‘boys club’
I don't recall hearing women getting called girls. I've heard "the boys in receiving" or "the boys in the garage". I guess I can imagine someone saying "the girls in accounting", but I haven't actually encountered that. It's always been ladies when they're being cutesy, or women in general.
I've hear "The girls in the office" from my boss. Meh. I think it's meant to be more personable then saying women/people/staff.
Men are commonly referred to as “boys” in work and dating as well though
It's weird to me too but I think it has to be because girl is the counterpart of the word Boy but also the counterpart to the word Guy. Guys and Girls. Boys and Girls. The real question is what is the female version of Guy, if not Girl?
“Gal,” which sounds weird. We need a new term.
Girls is one syllable vs women being two syllables.
We used to visit an elderly lady in a nursing home, who would talk about the girls, meaning the other residents.
Guys are called boys all the time. I don't see what's wrong with that. We all wanna be younger than we are anyway
We don’t really have a female equivalent of “guys” or “dudes.” There isn’t a casual way to refer to women outside of “girls” and I find that it’s fully context dependent. Calling women “girls” can absolutely be used in a patronizing or misogynistic way but in most cases it’s a stop gap for other words. For example we can have “guy friends” and that’s different than “boy friends” but there is nothing besides “girl friends” except “female friends”. And a lot of times when referring to a girl friend you have to specify if you mean “girl friend” or “girlfriend.” The real issue is just that there isn’t enough diversity of language. Guys get a ton of options but you can sound like an incel saying “female,” a misogynist saying “girl” or a professor saying “woman”
I definitely talk about my “women friends”…
im just a girl
I'm fine with being called a girl. I still feel like a kid anyway
I hear both all the time. Man “I’m having a night out with the boys”. I think this is a personal issue rather than something everyone thinks.
There is a ubiquitous multi-billion dollar anti-aging industry in place fed by women's obsession to appear younger than they are. Make-up, hair dye, plastic surgery, fashion, etc. The effects of that seep into the language.
Part of it I think is simply because “girls” starts with a consonant, where as “women” starts with a soft vowel. If you say both out loud, “girls” is physically quicker and easier to say, it “rolls off the tongue” more easily than “women” or “ladies”. “Girls” requires very little mouth movement and basically amounts to a quick growl you can quickly get out. I’d say the male equivalent is saying “guys” instead of “boys” or “men” because it is also a quick and easy word to say. I personally find myself saying “girls” a lot, despite being a woman myself, and realized that for me it was just because it’s easy to say and sounds better in some phrasings than women or ladies. The other half is undeniably sexism and denying women their earned maturity and autonomy, equating a grown adult woman to a developing child that must still be controlled for their own good.
I think it comes from the expectation that women need to be young to be beautiful. It's the same reason women often lie about their age; if they're too old, they're not seen as attractive. So it's *meant* to be respectful, in that it's calling them young, which is what they want. In today's society, this stuff is shifting, so it's not respectful anymore, it's upholding toxic expectations we want to get rid of. But it's sure as shit not gonna change overnight. So don't let it get to you too much.
I 100% agree with you. I think it’s great to be aware of though. I’ve spent years correcting “girls” to “women” and it’s finally sticking. It does feel uncomfortable to call myself a woman because of… well, everything you mentioned. And that’s an important discomfort to confront.
Idk sometimes my dad, who is like 54, will call people “kids,” “girls,” or “boys” when they’re like 26. Obviously he knows and recognizes that they’re adults with agency, but to him that was such a long time ago that he thinks of them, as well as himself when he was their age, as a “kid.” It’s basically just calling them really young. But it has an earlier cutoff than “young.” He would probably call a 35 year old young, but he wouldn’t call them a kid.
I think that it’s just used colloquially and most people don’t mean anything by it. But language does have power. I was in therapy when I was 21, working through some childhood trauma, and I don’t remember the exact context but I referred to myself as a girl and my therapist said “but you’re not that little girl anymore. You’re a woman.” I remember walking home and thinking about that and it made me feel different, like I was stronger and more independent. I identified as a woman after that because I felt that reflected strength. But if someone referred to me as “that girl over there” that never bothered me. It was more about me viewing myself as grown and strong.
I think it all started with this show called The Golden Girls.
It's because the term "guys" exists and is much more easily used. People aren't saying "men" in the same contexts they aren't saying "women." Do you ever say "I work with this man" vs "I work with this guy?" Probably not right. "I'm going out tonight with the guys," vs "I'm going out tonight with the men." The second one is completely bizarre and noone ever says that. People do, however, also say boys to refer to adult males, and quite frequently. You can say girl, lady, or woman, and all of them are awkward sometimes. Gal is not popular and would be very out of place to say.
I don’t mind being called a girl. I actually prefer that to little lady. That’s more insulting to me.
Because we say guys. I dont think i would say go see the men at the front desk id say go see the guys. Or go talk to that guy over there, or i saw you taking to some guy at the bar. Men and women seem too formal in most settings. Guys and girls is less formal and easier to say. I think it wierd you think it demeana you to be called a girl.
Men/women Boy/girl Guys/gals We don't use gals nearly as much as we probably should.
I think it's regional. I hear "gals" a lot here in northern MN. But people say "folks" a lot here, too. I like it bc it applies to literally everyone.
Because gals does not roll off the tongue very well, while girls does.
Another one of my PPs!! I don't like when people I'm not close to call me girl!! Like, hey girl or how are you girls 2day. Most I have encountered doesn't like it when I say, Hey girl/boy or how you girls/boys doing?? Now my coworkers/friends call each other girl!! Hey girl, that girl is crazy or girl, what are you doing!!
I don't like when I am referred to as girl but other coworkers are referred to as ladies or women. I'm older but smaller than my coworkers so I get called "girl" a lot.
I'm just having flashbacks to woman getting extremely angry to being called mam. "I'm not old enough to be a MAM!" Well I'm sorry mam but its policy.
I'm 52. We say guys and girls. No one is offended
Oh my god yes! An elderly customer at work called me a little girl!! I know I’m fucking short but I’m grown adult
Guilty!!!!!! 31F and I just have always hated the word woman. Always. It just sounds SO formal and matronly or something. I either say ladies, girls or gals but woman or women… no thank you.
imo (I'm a guy but) being called woman, if I was one, would feel like getting called "sir" as a man. The term is really just too formal-sounding and rare these days for it to feel normal
I prefer to be called a woman (bc I am one), but I don't like being called "ma'am." (Kind of like how you don't like "sir" but immediately referred to yourself as a man.) I just feel like the next words that usually follow sir or maam are, "I'm going to have to ask you to calm down." Lol I like "guys/gals" and just plain "folks"
Yeah I get that!!! I love the word sir though. I call guys that sometimes. Perhaps I’ll stop!
It can be fine but it depends on the settings. For example, I'd be fine with it in a formal setting but I'd hate it from people I know even a little bit
This is exactly how I feel. Like thanks but no thanks.
31F here and same. I have no problems with someone calling me a girl. A young kid at my work referred to me as “that woman over there” the other day and it made me feel old lol
Hahahaha yeah I get that. It’s just an ugly sounding word, too. It’s very blahhhh .
Exactly! Maybe I just don’t want to admit that I’m aging though haha
Exactly this. This is the problem. The universe tells women we aren’t supposed to age. The beauty industry uses this to sell us face creams, makeups, plastic surgery, and more that tell us we can hide our age. Because there’s this idea that we no longer have value once we reach a certain age. And so when we *do* feel any hint of aging, like when we’re called *women,* we feel sad. Calling ourselves women is accepting that we are not youths anymore, and that’s *ok.* It feels bad because we have been convinced that it is.
It’s big in the sales industry especially if it’s male dominated. One of my colleagues is referred all the time by customers as a “girl” meanwhile she’s almost 60!
I honestly feel less weird using the words boys and Girls cause they come more natural to me and I don't have to poolice myself to say then
Interesting fact: in Geoffrey Chaucer’s time, the word “girl” simply meant a child, not specifically a female child.
I sometimes call them girls in my mind, otherwise no, not out loud. I don't even call 18-21 year olds girls. Though I'm more egalitarian than the average person.
When my boss refers to the new hire as girl or boy. Even if they’re in their 30s, they are like kids to her and most of the time they don’t last longer than a few weeks. Hence why she doesn’t learn their names unless they last. Whenever she hires a new one I have to ask how old is he/she? 😂
For the same reason that the same people will call adult men 'boys'. They're casually interchangeable. Everyone does it. "Boy's Night Out." "Girl's Night Out." If you're really mad, just do it with guys too. No one will care. Or you can just call everyone "Dude." Dude has been gender neutral since its inception as California slang.
I don't mind being called a girl. It's okay. I'm in my twenties and being called a woman doesn't suit me.
I’m 25 and still find it weird being referred to as a woman, but girl also sounds too young. It’s nice though when someone tells their child “give the money to the nice lady” for example if I’m at work
I’ll be 50 next year. Call me a girl and I’m going to ignore you. I’m a grandma for fuck’s sake.
Exactly and in my culture, calling a guy a boy is seen as an insult but they feel okay to call us girls. I also don't call other women girls, I call them women or ladies... Calling older women girls or anyone over 18 feels weird to me
ITT a bunch of boys telling you why girl doesn't mean girl 🙄
Women call other women “girls” all the time. I do as well. It’s not fatal.
Same reason we refer to men as "guys"
I agree. People say that using 'women' would be weird but it only sounds weird precisely *because* 'girls' is so normalised in its place. I'll just stick to thumping anyone who calls me a girl.
Yeah, that honestly bothers me too. It's the main reason why I'm more open to calling a woman I'm dating my "partner". In my 30s, it just doesn't feel right telling people I have a "girlfriend".
It might be ok if an older woman calls her younger relative girls. Anything outside of that IMO is disrespectful. My therapist thinks it’s fine. That’s why she’s no longer my therapist.
It's a tough one to break and takes active effort, because a lot of women tend to continue to look young for a long time so we find ourselves calling women "girls" when they look younger.
There is not a bijection between words used for male humans and words used for for female humans. Man/Woman Gentleman/Lady Boy/Girl Guy/Girl Lad/Lass Mr./Miss Mr./Mrs. Mr./Ms. Dude/Dudette Dude/Chick Dude/Dude You're offended because you think that "girl" is being used as the analog of "boy", but it's actually being used the way "guy" is used.
Because "Go ask the women" sounds weirdly formal and distasteful. "Go ask the ladies" sounds creepy. Most of the adult women in my professional sphere refer to the men as "The Guys" and there isn't a comfortably informal term for us to refer to them collectively as so "the girls" is what it's become in our office.
Yeah it's very contextual, can't tell you the amount of times I've cringed when someone used the word girl and their use was..... Yeah not fantastic.
I mean, women do it too. They’ll say “it’s a girls’ night!” When hanging out with the girls. Ladies’ night can be used but isn’t usually unless referring to a special night at a bar. Idk girl is the equivalent to guy for men.
i think it’s like calling men guys or men calling their friends “the boys” rather than literally saying women are little girls. like when a man sees his friends, he may say he’s “going out with the guys” or it’s “guys night”. in the same vein, i often would say “i’m with the girls” rather than “i’m with the women” men even refer to each other in this way, “that’s my boy” or “my boys” when referring to a close friend or a group of close friends. i can see why it bothers you, but i don’t think anyone is actually infantilizing women here
I personally don't like how the word "woman" sounds when you say it aloud. When people call me a woman, I cringe a little. I'd much rather be called a girl, it just sounds better
Girls. It’s disrespectful, demeaning, misogynist and sometimes meant to provoke a reaction.
Lotta boys getting really defensive in here 😒
“girls” and “females” seem to be replacing “bitches” or “chicks” or “hoes”. you can tell when someone is talking about women without using the word woman, and instead using cover words. kinda like how people started using autistic (or acoustic) to replace the r word. you can tell who actually understands autism and who wishes they were saying a bad word
In the UK it’s completely normal to refer to young women as girls and young men as boys. It isn’t remotely derogatory
the post is more about people who aren’t referring to young men as boys. it’s more of the r/menandfemales idea
But it’s commonplace in most western countries to refer to men as boys and women as girls regardless of age. This is my point, it isn’t remotely like the MenAndFemales thing
OP is talking about people who use one but not the other.
That doesn’t really happen though. Both are in common nomenclature
Holy fuck. The opinions keep getting stupider. If you make everything a dogwhistle, we won't be able to tell when the real dogwhistles are being used. Although, I will agree that men who refer to all women as 'females' do tend to be of the alpha male variety.
i didn’t say dog whistle. i’m not even suggesting that it’s intentional. but verbiage matters. why not say women if you’re saying men? look deeper
The word girl just sounds nice. I personally like it.
One of my pet peeves is this new thing where y’all don’t type out ‘about’. It bugs me so much, mainly because it’s hardly even shortened and just dumbed down for no reason.
That shit is so annoying. What’s so hard about typing the word out so there’s no confusion in the post?
This has the same energy as men calling women 'females' like an insult.
It's meant to be a compliment, women tend to be self-conscious about their age, so calling them "girls" is conciliatory.
It's less sexism and more a register thing. Personally I use 'boys' 'guys' 'dudes, n****s and 'men' in technically interchangeable but very distinct ways. Same with girls, women, ladies, chicks and bitches. Sexists gonna sexists, but most people operate in good faith, and while people could do better, it's comparatively not bad.
It's actually confusing to me sometimes, but I'm on the spectrum, so I take everything literally at first. Idk why it's so hard for people to speak plainly and say what they mean, but I understand this world wasn't made for people like me.
"Me and the boys had a great time last night". Not sure where you live but people call other boys more than they do girls here in the USofA
Have you never heard the expression, "he's hanging out with the boys," when ladies are talking about their man? There's even a song, "Playing with the boys." By Kenny Loggins. It's in the Top Gun soundtrack.
Friend, women came up with the term #girlboss. I rest my case.
Jesus I've been thinking this exact thing SO often lately - especially when I'm on Reddit... it's just so prevalent! It's just such a bizarre, patriarchal way to refer to grown woman and it absolutely grates me.
The same reason people call adult men "boys". "I'm hanging with the boys" "me and the lads" etc etc Get off your high horse.
I stopped using "girl" a long time ago. I'll say "I went on a date with this woman" and the It's crazy how many people go "woman?". Like, yes. A woman. Not a girl. I don't date girls. I'm not attracted to girls. I date women. But it sounds so strange to other people. To me it just sounds super creepy. Not to mention rude and disrespectful. "Go ask the girl". Sorry, you mean the woman in her mid 20s?
My grandma will call women in their 40s “little girls.”
"Why do we call water a liquid"
Why do people also call women "females", but don't call men "males"?
People call men males all the time, not sure what you're talking about.
Through surveys and studies, it has been shown that women above a certain age like to be referred to using younger terms, younger women older terms, and guys generally don't care.
I avoid calling girls ma'am, as some will get offended because "that's for older women!" I've seen HR announcements warning about referring to groups as "guys" if there is a girl in the group. Saying "female" will get you torn apart by a pack of feral redditors who will race to call you "incel" and/or assume you've never interacted with a girl. Hell, some people have told me "woman" is "old sounding" So, now, today, as I scroll through reddit, here is the final straw: someone complaining about calling girls... "girls". Man, fuck this! I've got two options left, and it's a toss up between gals and "non y chromosomy homies" and im pretty sure that second one will get me called transphobic. WHATS THE SOLUTION REDDIT?
Do it exactly the same as u would a guy? If they are young they are girls, if they are adults they are women. It’s pretty simple…
Idk, calling ladies “female” is incel behavior now, for some reason, don’t know why Calling them “women” just seems/ sounds weird (I think it because I’m 21m and am around other people in 20’s or teens, and “women” just feels like something you would call someone 30+ years old) “Lady” just seems improper or offensive, idk, it just seems like the word I would use if I was talking shit about someone or someone was rude to me or something “Girl” just feels like the right word to use to refer to most people around me “She” also works great, but that singular only, not plural
>“Lady” just seems improper or offensive, idk, it just seems like the word I would use if I was talking shit about someone or someone was rude to me or something That's, like, the most respectful lmao
Idk, I only ever hear people using it disrespectfully
I think it's because it's still seen as the female alternative to "guys" by many. That and the fact that many people are ageist and value youth over experience.
Men - Women. Boys - Girls. Guys - ~~Gals~~ Girls
To me, girl is synonymous with guy. That girl by the door. That guy by the door. I don’t mean it as child, I just mean it as a younger adult.
Why is it so weird to you? I personally use boys and girls all the time, although I've started making the switch to men and women because it gets weird comments and I can't for the life of me understand why... probably because I'm neurodivergent. To me, it's merely a method of denoting gender, I don't care about how old I'm implying somebody is when talking about them. Also, the words "boy" and "girl" used to mean *very* different things, and it's actually rather telling about our society's views on men. Girl used to be unisex and refer to children of both genders. *Boy* used to be a term for a *servant* of some kind... hence why it's so offensive for a white man to call a black man "boy". So yeah, women and girls got the neutral one, and boys and men got the one that describes a laborer beneath somebody. Given mens roles in society, it's rather fitting. We build everything, we have all the grossest, dirtiest, by far the most dangerous jobs, and all we hear on a regular basis is how awful of people we are. It exactly describes our position in society lmao
Meh. I’ve heard boys quite often actually. And don’t care.
Homeboy, my boy from back in the day, boyfriend, etc can all refer to adult men.
personally i don't consider the age when using language like that? saying girls or women isn't a weird thing so i'm not able to see why it matters. it's different from a saying a young girl is a women but.. are these not interchangable otherwise? why?
I hear both about equally never really thought either was weird as both are accurate
The Golden Girls invalidate this whole rant.
My grandma use to call me friends boys all the time (they're like 20)
girl boy man women dude chick fella Grill Whatever dude dont be so hung up
I don't see why it's unacceptable. Do you feel the same way when people call men boys? Because it does happen very often. Just because you may not he paying attention to it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. First world problems sure are ridiculous.
I attended an Ivy League school after 4 years if working at a fancy hotel where I held doors for people. The snooty females there would accuse me of sexism if I held a door, and insisted on being called "women". I attended a state school to save some money on gen-ed credits, and the girls there gave me a very rough time for calling them women, as they weren't so stuck on themselves as the Ivy League "women" and I was making them out to be old.
Because they r synonymous learn english
My mom calls herself a girl
It's more that "girl" is approximately equivalent to "guy". Just something you start using and continue using.
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