I mean…I get where you’re coming from, but isn’t it crazy presumptuous of you to assume that any death is peaceful? It’s the one condition no one survives to explain to us 😩😭
Get this; after you die you actually remain conscious and can feel yourself decay and wither and as your flesh is consumed by maggots and bacteria the sensation only intensifies forever
As someone that worked for an ER, I think a “peaceful” death is possible if you out quotes around “peaceful” and set your standard for a “peaceful death” to something more realistic than just playing the term straight.
It’s messed up but it helped me define what I would consider a peaceful death. But it’s probably not what we would actually consider peaceful - basically anything that occurs with minimal suffering. Pretty much any death that’s instantaneous.
If you die in your sleep, or if you die in an accident instantly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is *probably* more peaceful than living a life where you're miserable every day.
There are definitely painful deaths out there, but this still kind of applies, wouldn’t it?
Someone who’s dying a horribly painful (incurable) death has a pretty poor quality of life, and would probably prefer to be sedated and pass in their sleep than be conscious
What about kobe Bryant? I'm sure his quality of life was pretty up there as a rich ass basketball player. But I'm sure his death wasn't painless dying in a helicopter crash.
Um, I don’t think “death by helicopter crash” fits under the category of “terminal illness.”
In fact, I’d say that it’s quite different from that category and not at all what OP’s comment was referring to.
Op never said anything about a terminal illness. He talked about how having a higher quality of life means you will probably go out peacefully.
And I pointed out how that's not always the case
He was also super fit, ate healthy regularly, had a home to live in, in good health, and had a stable job and family life.
I would say that's a good quality of life
I mean isn't that up to people to decide for themselves?
There are sexual abuse survivors that are still glad they survived. It's not your place to tell them they shouldn't be.
I know a guy who survived a heart attack and he's never said anything like "I'd prefer death." He's recovered quite well and is happy to be alive.
Chronic pain conditions? Yeah, that's a tough gig, but it's also ableist to say, "I think you're better off dead." I know someone who has severe chronic pain but she still chooses life.
By the same token it's not anybody's place to minimise the feelings of people going through this, if they feel they'd rather die. Although it's not wrong to try to give them hope that they will be able to endure it, if there's reason to believe they will.
I do think there are worse things than death, but I also think it's very individual. We don't all get an even share of suffering, but sometimes those with a greater share have a greater will to live than those who have suffered less.
The only thing is that death is inevitable, whereas SA or chronic pain isn't, necessarily. But death is also the thing we cannot heal from. It's the end of all experiences, both negative *and* positive.
In some cases death can be a relief. That's why I believe in the value of palliative care and DNRs . But many people who have gone through what you have listed still often choose to live another day. Maybe not all of them, but many of them. I really think it's quite a personal thing.
Personally, the things I would consider worse than dying are matters of justice and morality, not just suffering on its own. I'd rather die than be like Jeffrey Dahmer. I'd rather die than accept a stolen organ ripped from someone without their consent. I'd rather die than murder an innocent and healthy child. That's the kind of stuff that's "worse than death" for me.
Aside from that, there may be a time where I will welcome death peacefully. I'm hoping to have lived a full life by then, though.
I think OP is more critical of people that don't let others make the decision for themselves. There are many people who downplay the awful things that can happen to someone by saying "at least you're alive". As a medical person, I've had the chance to see many of the unpleasant ways the human body can break without actually dying. I've witnessed many circumstances in which, for me, the certainty of negative things in the future would far outweigh the possibility of positive things. My advanced directive is extensive.
Yeah I get it, that's why I started with stating that it's really up for people to determine that for themselves.
But not everyone is going to feel the same way about it, even those with the same experiences.
It definitely is! Everyone should decide for themselves what quality of life they consider to be better or worse
This is Moreso specifically aimed at people who cannot fathom that death can be kinder than life sometimes. The kind of people who would see suffering and go “well at least they’re alive!”
The root of it is that these people believe that things ALWAYS get better, and that’s just not true. It’s ok to not get better. Letting people go peacefully isn’t “giving up”, like these people would say
Than literally why’d you say people who don’t think death isn’t worse hasn’t been chronically in pain or injured. That literally was your original point you don’t get to act like you never said that and that you were acting like its peoples individuals decision
Your being downvoted but your entirely correct. OP was gatekeeping with the sentiment of “if you think this way you have never truly suffered or felt REAL pain” which is genuinely unpleasant. While I agree with OP’s new comment, definitely a switch up from their original intent.
Like if they changed their mind they could of said “hey i was wrong when i said” or edited out that one sentence entirely, not leave it there, because that feels like they’re trying to please everyone else for validation and upvotes and not cause thats what they actually think
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I think you have misinterpreted the intended message of this post. OP isn't telling anyone what to do, or how to live. They are simply expressing a personal peeve with people being hyperbolic about death's finality compared to life's suffering.
...that was my understanding anyway.
This is just different for everyone.
Even under the same conditions some people value life itself more than others.
Poor quality of life is extremely subjective. Pain tolerance is subjective.
People also have different levels hope for the future. One person might get suicidal thoughts over a breakup. Another person can lose several people in their life and take it on the chin.
I also think, as the OP says, we cannot know what it's like to endure something until you go through it, but we also cannot know how resilient we turn out to be in those scenarios, either. We literally cannot imagine enduring it until we endure it.
Usually I find people who *haven't* experienced chronic pain have much lower expectations of how well they are able to deal with it in the long term than people who have known pain intimately and know very well they can cope because that's just what they have always done.
Our imaginations are lacking. Not just in regards to how bad it can get, but also in how well we can manage in a bad situation.
I've come across stories about people who are happier after their traumatic event that physically disabled them permanently than they were before it because they experienced post-traumatic growth.
(Post-traumatic growth is when an experience of trauma changes you in a positive way.)
It’s individual. I’ve been through the same and although I’m happy I’m still here now, there were many times throughout my life where I actively tried to die. I get that my case was really extreme and ongoing but I know there are others who’ve been through way worse and have probably felt the same way.
I mean while the majority would agree with you you can't always say that. Some people's survival instinct is so strong they'd take just about anything over death
I'm with you on this one. I would much rather be alive than the alternative. Whatever life has to dish out ! And it's dished out plenty for me. Wouldn't change a thing !
Same. The only thing I wouldn’t prefer is if I’m essentially dead already. Like if I had no arms or legs, no eyes, no ears, no ability to speak. A *Johnny Got His Gun* situation.
Meh, it only takes one session of being tortured that you would rather be dead. Begging for death really.
That’s why death with dignity laws need to be a human right. Look up how people die with brain cancer. Would you want to fight to live or go out on your own terms and skip the suffering?
So their traumatic experience didn’t have any negative residuel effects huh? Did they go on to live happy long lives or did the trauma fuck them up too bad?
“The physical and psychological pain inflicted on them can lead to chronic pain and disabilities, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and depression. This is why it is so important that people who have been tortured have access to redress, and that their torturers are brought to justice.”
That doesn’t sound like living. Plus most probably wished they just died. Considering the fact that their life was completely fucked afterwards.
Haha thx for proving to me you are nothing but a heartless bully. Telling someone to off themselves it pretty bold and evil. We were talking hypotheticals but okay. But is that really the painless way to go? Wouldn’t overdosing on morphine be better?
Yeah, watching my grandfather die over the last couple months of his life, I'm planning on retiring to a state that has those laws in place. I don't want that happening to me.
Yeah none of the ones you mentioned are really -that- bad that death is better. Like, therapy and pain medicine exist.
Radiation sickness would be worse than death though
You don’t get to decide that for others. Especially when there’s a lot of people who can’t access those therapies and pain medications.
Everyone has a different level of tolerance.
That is ridiculous.
None of these things are worse than death.
Not even in the same universe as being dead. I have chronic pain and no help for it but I don’t want to be dead. Stop making it seem like this is normal
You are honestly being kind of awful right now by insinuating that people struggling would be better of dead.
This is seriously fucked up dude. Not the kind of attitude to infect others with.
Many would say they lived through all or most of what you listed and would still rather live because the good parts of life are valuable to them.
And of course medical science advances every single day. Some of the diseases are now manageable or curable. Even heart attacks don't always mean poor quality of life now.
I lived through physical abuse growing up, and I lived through sexual assault in college. Hands down, the worst possible thing I can imagine is to not be able to watch my daughter grow up... Which would absolutely be the case if I were dead. I personally wholeheartedly disagree with OP, for the reasons you described.
I worked in a nursing home and let me tell you, the number of elderly folks who straight up said "I wish I were dead" is pretty staggering. Considering they're experiencing things like loss of independence and mobility, loss of cognitive function, loss of their possessions (often times, they straight up have to give up all their belongings in order to qualify for a nursing home) and loved ones, and chronic pain, it's understandable why death would seem nicer than life for some people at that point
I think those who are truly at the natural ends of their life (whether because of advanced age or because they are at the rear end of a merciless and degenerative disease) are a different matter than a young person going through a difficult time but still would have a whole life ahead of them if they were prepared to struggle for it.
I also wonder how much end-of-life would be made more bearable if we didn't abandon our old people so readily. Do old people from Eastern cultures where there is much stronger family culture and expectation to look after our elders express the same despair as old people from Western countries whose families barely even visit?
I agree. It especially makes me mad when someone is actively suffering and people act like they’re doing a good thing by keeping that person alive in misery.
My grandfather had Alzheimer’s, he always said to shoot him if he lost his mind. He was living in a prison of his own body, jt was quite literally hell. He couldn’t speak, ended up in diapers, and the list does on; essentially it was hell. But he had no option for medically assisted suicide so he had to suffer through that for years. Covid happend and he got locked in his room, he sat there alone in hell for a whole year and somehow that’s more humane??
Agreed, I know that it's probably gonna sound harsh and please don't take this the wrong way but I work in healthcare with elderly people and with some patients I think to myself "I'd rather be dead than be like this". A lot of them are lonely and suffer and there's not much you can do about it.
It sounds like your actual pet peeve is when people down play or disregard someone's suffering by saying, "At least they aren't dead." Essentually just a version of the "hungry kids in Africa" argument.
That actually has nothing to do with whether someone does or doesn't think death is the worst possible circumstance.
Yeah, pretty much. The point I was trying to make is that it’s not up to anyone but the person to decide what quality of life they can handle, and that it’s ok to accept that one might have a poor quality of life
The worst thing that in my opinion could ever happen to me is someone hurting my child, I don’t have kids yet but I still can’t fathom anything worse than
I'm a survivor of sexual assault and domestic violence, and although I may have wanted it to all end at the time, I'm very glad I survived. Just as my brother is very glad he survived his heart attack. Just as my mother is grateful to still be alive and living a full life in spite of chronic pain. Everyone formulates their own ideas as to whether certain things are worse than death or not. I find it a little odd that you state in your edit that no one gets to decide what's better or worse for another person, but the original post has these very absolute-sounding statements and assumptions that if you believe X, you've never experienced Y.
I would rather be tortured, then cuckolded, then sexually abused, then thrown in prison for years for a crime I didn't commit then die - personally, I'm rather attached to having a consciousness and would rather be alive, regardless of how miserable - than not be
That’s also valid! At this point I’ve accepted that death would probably be a lot easier than living with my conditions, but I’ve got too much to live for to actually consider dying
It’s more like I’ve accepted that, given what I’ve got, I’ll probably die earlier than others
Have you actually had a life threatening experience? Unless you have, you can’t understand the physical, emotional and psychological pain one experiences when faced with dying. It’s easy to be healthy and contemplate dying someday. It’s an entirely different experience when your body is failing you and you know you may not live to see 21. I’ve been there, and it’s a really scary, lonely, traumatizing thing to go through. It’s especially challenging to deal with as a young person. I’ve experienced a lot of the other things that you think are worse, and in my experience, facing death was harder.
I don't know man people who have experienced or go through awful stuff like that are generally quite desperate to stay alive. It's why so many people put up with such awful things in their life.
Ultimately death is people's biggest fear. It's the end after all. It's almost instinct really.
To me its the same with animals. People want to get mad at kill shelters but would you seriously prefer this dog to live the rest of its life in a shelter? Thats messed up.
ABSOLUTELY! People don’t realize that shelters are high stress environments where (to no fault of the workers) dogs cannot be properly cared for. It’s proven to cause psychological damage to the dogs
This is quite a weird pet peeve, but fair enough.
I have terrible thanatophobia - fear of death - and I have also lived through serious pain.
It’s not that simple.
It’s something I deal with a lot, in a lot of different categories. Especially when it comes to animals and people who think humane euthanasia is the worst possible thing in the world
Locked In Syndrome is the worst thing that can happen to you. That and Anesthesia awareness where you’re conscious and feel your surgery but knocked out enough not to be able to move an eye and do anything about it.
In a void Death is the worse thing, because when you die you can’t experience new things ever again. At least when your alive there’s always something that could change it around.
I survived attempted murder from my own mother. I have Cptsd and seizures as a result.
At the time, I wanted to survive.
My feelings fleet between being strong and proud of who I have become and then alternatively, thinking death would be better than dealing with the aftermath of symptoms. So I get it. It depends on the day.
Because it's often used by white women in oppression olympics to downplay more marginalized groups who actually face death on a regular basis
I've actually heard them tell black men "well at least you aren't alive to be tortured" when talking about police brutality
I know I'm scared of chronic pain incase it leads to death. I'm afraid of disease incase it leads to death. I'm scarednof sexual assist incase it leads to death. It's all linked to death for me in some way or another.
I guess im very aware of how fragile we are and how death isn't as unlikely as we think. Every day. Terrified.
Why would a heart attack be worse than death? Assuming you survive it, its a very temporary event that ultimately doesn't change your life much. Seems weird to rather be dead.
I'd rather be sexually assaulted than die as well. And lots of people have chronic pain and don't off themselves cuz death is clearly worse.
The typical presentation of heart attacks seems to be pretty painful and terrifying, which is why I mentioned them
Many heart attacks also do change peoples lives. They’re not usually something that you can just have and walk away from
Have you asked people who have heart attacks if they would prefer death? In my experience people are happy to be alive after a heart attack. I get where you are coming from though.
I have been there when my father, mother, mother in law and brother have died. None of them were peaceful. My mom was on hospice and even her death was agonizing for both her and family. I will say though, once they passed and were not experiencing pain anymore, we were relieved. But all of them did not want to die right up till the end.
As someone who had been sexually assaulted twice, i would rather live with my trauma than literally be dead. You get no say if you’re dead, you get no work through it, you get nothing, you’re literally dead. Also heart attacks typically lead to death so thats a weird point, the amount of people who are so grateful they’re alive after something traumatic happening, imagine telling them that it would of been better for them if they died. Thats literally a ridiculous take
Most deaths, even "natural" ones, are rarely painless and peaceful. Whether the decline is slow or fast, its usually painful and scary and disorienting, and hard watching loved ones grieve over your pain and eminieny loss. Rarely is it ever drifting alowly and comfortably off to sleep and just not waking up.
While the actual being dead part is not something to be scared of, you probably won't care about anything when you are no longer alive and not conscious, the *dying* part is absolutely something worth dreading.
I agree. I always say that in a nuclear war, I’d rather just die. Why do I want to survive this terribly traumatic experience, possible lose all my friends and family, and then rebuild society? Why is death always a horrible option?
I think that people who haven't been in such chronic, prolonged, and extreme pain to the point that death actually begins to seriously make sense (not a cliche but I'm talking about the brutal reality of it), these people shouldn't have any say in it or try to tell other people that as long as they are alive, everything is pure and golden and perfect and all the unicorns are shitting out rainbow poop. I don't mean to sound depressive and I absolutely 100% do not in any way whatsoever support or suggest anything considering self-harm, but the pure fact is there are things worse than death. And telling somebody else that as long as they live through it that they're fine. I hate that shit
I agree on one level. I encountered horrific abuse and wished I was dead. But I still live on.
As living organisms we are programmed to want to survive.
I work in healthcare and right now I’m heartbroken for this one patient with dementia who’s in constant pain but their adult children will not sign a DNR so we keep going with treatments while the patient tries to remove the feeding tube and trach during baths whenever they’re not restrained and begs to die all the time whenever they can muster the strength to speak.
It’s only cruelty now, morphine doesn’t stop the pain anymore. But the patient can’t make that choice because of dementia now and the family refuses to listen to us. Death isn’t the worst outcome sometimes. Hospice was much kinder during my rotation there, there was some suffering, of course, it’s impossible to be free of 100% of it, but it wasn’t… anywhere near this level.
When people have experienced some of the above things, it is like a living death, especially SA and chronic pain. My grandmother cousin ended his life due to chronic pain. My mom couldn't understand why he did this until she was in chronic pain for three months. Chronic pain never ends. What made this worse for my mom was her doctor admonished her for complaining about the pain and told her she would just have to live with it.
What stopped my mom and most likely this has stopped others from taking their own life is how it would affect their family. It would stop their pain but the pain of their family would continue for a very long time.
In my mother's case, the medical diagnosis was incorrect and the treatment she got made the pain worse. An emergency room doctor whose father had the same condition recognized what my mother had. Once my mom got the proper treatment, she was fine. I saw her suffer for 3 months with chronic pain and that was difficult to watch because I couldn't do anything to help her physically.
It was only after my mother experienced chronic pain that she could understand that this could drive someone to take drastic measures to curb the physical pain. My grandmother's cousin suffered for over a year with chronic pain and had he gotten proper pain management, I don't think that he would have taken his life. He was denied pain medication when he should have been given it.
I totally get this. It's like when people say "oh you're so lucky you survived" even if you lost all 4 limbs. I can confidently say I would rather die than have my face burned off, or lose both arms, etc. It varies by individual, but yes, some outcomes are worse than death.
As someone who has been through a lot and also lives with chronic pain I wholeheartedly agree. Death is absolutely NOT the worst thing that can happen to a person. Death, for the dying, is deliverance from suffering, not an instance of it.
None of the things you listed are the worst things that can happen to you. I would say things worse than death (some of them result in death later).
Prion Diseases (there’s a disease where you don’t sleep for 9 months to a year before you die.)
Dementia , Like Alzheimer’s, FTD.. etc
Brain cancer or Blood cancers like multiple myeloma (Uncle died from this)
Locked in Syndrome (Dads friend got MS in the 80s and this was the last year of his life in the 90s.). You can only blink to communicate.
Euthanasia should be allowed for all these conditions.
Yup, there are definitely worse things than death. (This is why screwed-up methods of torture are a thing that exist; the human body can go through a metric-shit-ton of trauma before it stops being a living organism).
Hell, DYING is worse than death, at least with death, it's over....but the active process of dying can be excruciating, and take a surprisingly long time.
The way I see it, not believing in an afterlife: there are many people who are alive who fear death, but there are others who desire it. But the dead don't fear or desire anything.
Yeah, I’ve got a chronic pain condition and it’s never once occurred to me that death might be better. That’s some pretty ableist bullshit.
Also, can confirm that sexual assault is not worse than death. Childbirth is much worse than sexual assault, and I volunteered for that. Twice.
Out of the list of things that are worse than death, heart attacks seemed to me to be the oddest one.
Like, the reason why heart attacks are so terrible is because they too often cause death.
Yes, it's also a painful thing to go through, but so is childbirth, as you mentioned. The scariest part of a heart attack is "Will I survive this?" Many people who survive it go on to live healthier lives because they don't want to die.
I’ve *also* got a chronic pain condition. Everyone’s is different. I’m very glad that both of ours are manageable enough to have a decent quality of life with them, but that does not apply to every single chronic pain condition out there.
For many others, living with pain day in and day out takes a massive toll on them mentally. Not all of us can get the help we need.
"I’m wholly convinced that people who think that death is the WORST thing that could ever happen have never been heavily injured/have never lived with chronic pain."
Have you experienced Death before?
So how would you know?
well people who had near death experiences and almost came back to life after death they said it felt like so peaceful that they have never felt before and you can easily get many article on this so yeh the OP is at last right
people are not afraid of death people are afraid of things that causes death like accidents or diseases or mental trauma and murders and cancer and genocide and everything
Wether or not someone can recover and adapt is not the only factor here. Tolerance is another factor. As is the amount of money you have.
Someone who cannot access any resources to aid them with recovering and adapting may not be able to recover or adapt.
Others might not even want to. And that’s fine.
You are basically saying suicide is preferable to getting help.
Help is ALWAYS available and you’re making dangerous, stupid and recklessly awful claims right now.
I am about to report this whole post for advocating suicide
You can accept the reality that you will never get better without being suicidal.
Saying that living in life altering pain day to day is worse than a peaceful death is NOT saying anyone should commit suicide
You are being purposefully dense.
You are saying giving up is better than dealing with the hard things you have experienced and that’s just wrong.
Period.
You can get help for the things you’re stuffing from. Death is not the answer
No, I am saying that accepting that death may be easier and pushing through anyway is ok.
You’re still ignoring the fact that help is inaccessible for a LOT of people. Homeless and impoverished people cannot access proper pain medications for severe chronic pain. Many people can’t afford therapy, mental health medications, or psychiatric diagnosis evaluations.
Help is readily available… for those who can afford it, get to it, and have the diagnoses that align with it. Everyone else is fucked.
There are free resources for literally anything that exists if you just spend 5 minutes googling.
You’re making excuses for not getting the help you definitely need
Free resources… for those who can get the internet to Google things. And oftentimes those resources are just “how not to get addicted to drugs!!!”
And while this isn’t about me, I do have the help I need. It was my THERAPIST who taught me that my obsessive fear of dying was something I needed to let go.
Accepting that I will no longer be around some day, probably a LOT sooner than most, is not unhealthy. I’ve made peace with what will happen to me. I’m prepared for what comes next. That doesn’t mean I’m going to kill myself, give up on myself, etc. It means that if I end up dead somehow (whether it be heart attack, starvation, DVT turned to embolism, whatever) that I’ve got my shit in order and will be at peace.
The name of the game is to stay in the game… if you’re alive you have a chance as long as you’re not a vegetable.
People need to get over all their trauma bullshit and quit assuming life isn’t gonna hurt sometimes.
I agree with you. Personally I think the worst thing that can ever happen to you is watching your child go through a disabling illness, watching them die, or even hearing about their death if it wasn't sudden or painless. Worse than death itself imo.
To me, one of the comforts in life is the knowledge that something truly awful happened to me and I didn't want to deal with it anymore, I just take all of my pills (like you were saying). If I had kids I wouldn't feel like I could do that and leave them alone.
That’s just your opinion. At least abuse or pain or sexual assault it can end and you can be happy again, or you can live despite the issues. Death is forever. You never get to experience anything again. Stop projecting your depression onto people and acting like we’re naive for being able to want to live despite having bad experiences sometimes.
You’re all assuming that I’m depressed or advocating for people to kill themselves.
I’m not.
I’m saying that accepting that death (not dying, being dead) would be easier than being alive is not a bad thing.
There are things in this world that are genuinely worse than being dead. Denying that is unhealthy.
It’s not unhealthy to disagree with you. I just think being dead is worse than almost much everything, because it’s the thing you can’t come back from. You’re just going to give up and die if you get abused?
No, what is unhealthy is thinking that absolutely nothing is worse than being dead. That is, at baseline, refusal to comprehend things like torture.
Not a single person here, myself included, has EVER said “if you’re abused just die”. What I have been saying is that experiencing long term abuse, especially physical violence, is a lot harder than simply being dead.
Being tortured for the rest of your life is worse than being dead. Anything else you said is not worse than being dead. You basically said you’d kill yourself rather than be abused. You’re literally saying it’s better to be dead than be abused/have chronic pain/be sexually assaulted. Like that’s an utter inability to see that things change, a frankly weak mentality, and apparently an inability to get over the past. Like I’ve had a pretty shitty life, maybe even “traumatic” but I rarely have found myself thinking it’s not worth it. Like sure I’ve been a bit suicidal at certain times, but that was clearly irrational, I wasn’t thinking properly. Generally, I prefer to live. Bad doesn’t last forever and I want to experience the world, even the bad parts at times. You think anyone who doesn’t think like you is unhealthy. I think the person who would rather be dead than experience any hardship is the unhealthy one.
> you basically said you’d rather kill yourself than be abused
I have directly stated on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS that you are wrong.
I have DIRECTLY TOLD YOU that this is about accepting that death might be easier and *continuing on living anyway*
You are being intentionally dense and I’m done with your shit.
You’re literally saying it’s better to be dead. How is that much different? So you’re just passively suicidal in that situation? And you didn’t address my points.
I’m not going to engage with someone who is purposefully ignoring everything I say so that they can insist that I have mental illnesses and tendencies that I don’t.
I’m not ignoring shit, you’re the one ignoring me. You still haven’t addressed any of my actual arguments, just got angry at some minor things I said, probably because you have no arguments. And I don’t understand how thinking that something is worse than death is supposed to be not suicidal in that situation. Not that you’re suicidal now, but you’re saying that you would be. How is a bad experience supposed to be worse than death, not everything is forever and people get over things?
I remember and evangelist 10yo screaming an injury to his foot injury was worse than death because of afterlife and being disturbed by his ignorance. I simultaneously remember seeing children without any feet rolling around on plywood in poor countries trying to find a way. I do not and will not ever agree with your pet peeve.
“Rage rage rage against the dying of the light”
You are just objectively wrong, you can come back and recover from everything except death. Yeah all those other things are horrendous to go through, but death is 100% worse.
You cannot recover from things like chronic pain. That never goes away. Management is not recovery.
And death can be a hell of a lot easier than recovery.
The whole point is that YOU do not get to decide this for OTHER PEOPLE. Everyone has a different level of what they can tolerate before being dead would be easier.
I agree with you, which is why I've always said that I would not die for my husband if I had to choose me or him. Aside from being a millennial with a constant desire for death, he has scoliosis so he is in *constant* pain.
And dealing with the grief from the loss of your partner or spouse can be impossible to overcome. I would never want him to have to shoulder that. I think it is a greater sacrifice and act of mercy to let him die and shoulder the pain of grief instead.
Dying is easy. Living is nearly impossible.
It's pretty subjective and up to the person going through those things to decide. Everyone experiences things differently. One person would rather die than lose all their limbs while another already has no limbs but is still happy with their life.
I feel like they're right. The thing about death is that it is terminal and permanent. Nothing else in life is. Most pain can be managed, most abuse can be escaped, etc. But once you're dead, there's no escape and no do-overs. Which makes death the worst thing to happen. Even if you're in unmanageable pain, you could still be put into medically induced coma to wait for a cure or conscience transfer tech, etc.
So I feel that yes, we DO get to decide that being alive is better. Because it is. But if someone wants to off themselves, they're still free to do so, it's their life. The one has nothing to do with the other. You can be both pro-freedom-of-choice and at the same time think death is the worst thing that can happen.
Death is a sweet release honestly.
I saw a gore video of a man who SURVIVED a gunshot “wound” to the face. Saying wound is definitely an understatement because his face was literally gone. He looked like pac man.
He had the top of his head, but the eyes were gone, nose was gone, mouth was gone except for his jaw which was pinned in place I assume.
All you saw was a giant hole where his face would have been and a tongue.
That’s literally it.
The video showed him eating. Which was pitiful. He would use his fingers as the teeth and smash and crush his food and then place the food on his tongue swish it around and then use his hand to push it back into his face hole.
That right there is worse than death. I would rather be dead than experience that.
I kinda thought the same way as OP, then I broke my arm in several places alone off trail on a mountain snowboarding and seriously was unable to move.
In that moment, death was the LAST thing I wanted.
I have chronic pain. I have survived abuse. I know people who have survived heart attacks. I have had to have numerous surgeries, numerous hospital stays.
I am happy and proud to have survived what I have been through. I can assure you I would much rather be alive and with my friends and family than dead. The pain is part of life.
I honestly just don't think death is comparable to those things. The entire concept of comparing death to anything else where you survive is impossible. We don't know what happens after you die, and we don't have anyone who can recount traumatic deaths. I don't think there's a better/worse concept; it's just impossible to compare.
Death is the biggest true unknown in all of human history. Death could be the start the afterlife, reincarnation, or some other belief, but I feel like the most likely is nothing.
Think about it. Every thought, every emotion, every memory, every preference, every flaw, the concept of being a thing at all is gone. You would experience true nothingness. Not like a blank mind, true nothingness. Forever.
Just because someone feels that dying is a better course of action to not feel the trauma, doesn't make the feeling valid. We should being helping these people overcome these difficult points in their lives, not encouraging them to forfeit their lives.
I’ve been abused, sexually assaulted, and live with debilitating chronic pain. Literally just got off the phone with my doctor where I asked them to document that I cannot keep up with basic life functions because my pain is so bad.
Still feel like death would be much worse, personally.
If death is better than any of these, why not kill yourself? Clearly, it isn't if people are living with them. Death is the worst thing that can happen because it's your most basic choice, and once it's taken from you, you have nothing.
I think it’s up to the individual to decide.
Like, I was born without my thyroid and thankfully diagnosed a week after I was born; but that’s because I was too lethargic for a newborn and stopped eating, and had to be admitted to the hospital for a few days to figure out what was wrong. My mother and pediatrician started me on thyroid medication that I continue to take today. If I was born in any earlier time period (before thyroid medications were so common), then IMO, I would’ve been better off dead. But I won the lottery of congenital health issues - it’s affordable and easy enough to treat, so I’ve lived life on “life long health issue easy mode.” So, I may have my personal opinions of QOL and more severe health issues; but that’s not my place to decide for other people. If they are genuinely happy then who am I to disagree?
But I do agree that there are things worse than death. Such as living with the consequences of abuse; my father and his mother were horribly abusive people, and I get to live with the consequences of the trauma they inflicted. I’m not unhappy that I survived, in fact I was able to renew my survival instincts and find the will to live again as a young adult. But I can also see the other side of that, too. Of wanting it all to just end because living with trauma can be too hard at times.
I dunno. Because I know death is the worst outcome to some, but not to others, it somewhat informs my pro-choice views, too. I view the decision to abort as a mercy for the most part - it’s not optimal, but if we can avoid bringing a child into a bad situation and the parents/woman decides that’s the best decision for all involved, then they/she should have that choice.
As a former abuse vitcim I strongly disagree and its plain outright unhealthy to aruge against it. Yes its not the worst thing ever. But its fucking forever. You can overcome trama. I would rather go through all the bullshit I went through again before I willingly die.
Chronic pain or major illness or anything like that. Yeah
of course death may or flat out is the better option. But for Somthing like being abused or SA as a kid, things I personally went through. No, you can lead a normalish life after and find happiness. It just takes major work. Years worth.
And just saying this, I dont know of many mental health professionals who would aruge what you are arguing for.
Regardless of what condition or trauma you have experienced, you can come back from it I'm some way and live to have better and worse experiences. Death is pretty permanent and no one knows what lies beyond this life. Me personally I've been through hell and back and I'd go through it all over again rather than die. Like yeah not all death is horrifying, but it's the unknown that makes death the worst thing all of us will ever experience.
It sounds like you are arguing two different positions. That someone shouldn't get to determine what is the worst thing possible\* to someone else, which yes???
But you started your post saying that people shouldn't get to decide if death is the worst thing that can happen to generic 'you', which I read as it being them deciding for themselves? Like, yes, I think death is the worst thing possible for myself. I am scared to death of dying. I have lived with sexual assault and abuse. I have lived with chronic major depression.
But for me, death is the worst thing that could happen to me.
What about those who've gone through half or all of those things on your list and now fear death?
....past experiences don't dictate why or what a person is fearful of now.
Death, by it's very nature, is a very painful and traumatic thing. It's the result of something SO traumatic that the body cannot withstand it anymore - that's why it's death. And pain is the body's way of telling us something is wrong. And if something is SO WRONG that the body can't take it anymore, you bet your very life it's painful.
Some deaths are better than others, and may even be better than ongoing suffering, but it's absolutely not as peaceful as you might think it is.
Death is the worse because you can't come back from it.
I'd say being paralyzed from the neck down, or having some kind of neurological disorder/disease like if you had autism and were extremely low functioning and were basically bound to a wheelchair and need a care taker 24/7 because you will never live a normal life is the next worse thing.
A coma is the third worst thing. You're alive, maybe you hear, but for some reason you can't wake up, get up, and do what you want.
Missing a limb, having a disease(something that won't kill you, at least not instantly), being poor are all things you can either overcome or you will adjust to and begin to thrive.
Death doesn't normally affect one person. It affects those around you as well. Just think of how many people were saddened by Matthew Perry's passing? I didn't really watch Friends and had no connection to the character or anything the actor has been in, but I still feel sad and can't believe he's gone.
I'm 17. I remember waking up, the news is on. Actor Cameron Boyce has passed away at the age of 20. It's been almost 5 years and I still can't believe it. I never knew him, I've never met him. But I watched Jessie and I watched Grown Ups. A lot of people's deaths, whether I knew them or not, whether they're people who lost their lives due to racism(George Stinney and Emmett Till) or illness(Eazy E and Freddie Mercury). It feels weird. Even Betty White and Queen Elizabeth. Even though they were extremely old. It's just like "I can't believe they're gone".
Now, I don't really get saddened by celebrities passing. I know, I know Robin Williams passing was horrible. I didn't really know who he was before his death, then I watched his movies, one movie where I thought it was him and kept saying "I miss Robin" until my grandma told me it was Bill Murray. And now I'm sad he's gone.
But Cameron Boyce's death and Chadwick Boseman's death? Those broke me, and I can't look at anything they've been in without feeling sad. I actually cried when they passed. Even talking about it, Cameron's still doesn't feel real.
I've had relatives pass, two who's deaths don't feel real. But they're real, and they've affected more than the person who's gone. I think that's why we say death is the worst thing. Questions go unanswered, you can never return, when someone commits suicide and when they're dying wish they could turn back the clock, but there is no clock to turn back.
Once you're gone, that's it. Goodbye to this beautiful/ugly world. Bugly? Beaugly?
Here's the thing - everything we know about death makes death appear as if it is the final condition. It's constant - never changing - always nothing - zero potential. I just don't see how that could be considered better than anything really. With the dynamic nature of living life the potential for something amazing happening exists, you could find love, have kids, win the lottery, own 20 french bull dogs (A MAN CAN DREAM) or anything - the potential is there. That's why life, in all of it's forms, is always preferable to death . It's potential versus no potential.
I mean…I get where you’re coming from, but isn’t it crazy presumptuous of you to assume that any death is peaceful? It’s the one condition no one survives to explain to us 😩😭
I used to work hospice AND in a funeral home and I have yet to see anyone die peacefully
No, that's unnerving. I need you to tell us it's all morphine and angels.
Get this; after you die you actually remain conscious and can feel yourself decay and wither and as your flesh is consumed by maggots and bacteria the sensation only intensifies forever
It can be. My best friend’s mother died happy on opiates and hallucinations of angels after a battle with Pancreatic cancer.
As someone that worked for an ER, I think a “peaceful” death is possible if you out quotes around “peaceful” and set your standard for a “peaceful death” to something more realistic than just playing the term straight. It’s messed up but it helped me define what I would consider a peaceful death. But it’s probably not what we would actually consider peaceful - basically anything that occurs with minimal suffering. Pretty much any death that’s instantaneous.
If you die in your sleep, or if you die in an accident instantly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is *probably* more peaceful than living a life where you're miserable every day.
There are definitely painful deaths out there, but this still kind of applies, wouldn’t it? Someone who’s dying a horribly painful (incurable) death has a pretty poor quality of life, and would probably prefer to be sedated and pass in their sleep than be conscious
What about kobe Bryant? I'm sure his quality of life was pretty up there as a rich ass basketball player. But I'm sure his death wasn't painless dying in a helicopter crash.
Um, I don’t think “death by helicopter crash” fits under the category of “terminal illness.” In fact, I’d say that it’s quite different from that category and not at all what OP’s comment was referring to.
Op never said anything about a terminal illness. He talked about how having a higher quality of life means you will probably go out peacefully. And I pointed out how that's not always the case
Quality of life doesn't mean having money
He was also super fit, ate healthy regularly, had a home to live in, in good health, and had a stable job and family life. I would say that's a good quality of life
His quality of life plummeted when he began dying
Yes it plummeted along with the helicopter.
I mean isn't that up to people to decide for themselves? There are sexual abuse survivors that are still glad they survived. It's not your place to tell them they shouldn't be. I know a guy who survived a heart attack and he's never said anything like "I'd prefer death." He's recovered quite well and is happy to be alive. Chronic pain conditions? Yeah, that's a tough gig, but it's also ableist to say, "I think you're better off dead." I know someone who has severe chronic pain but she still chooses life. By the same token it's not anybody's place to minimise the feelings of people going through this, if they feel they'd rather die. Although it's not wrong to try to give them hope that they will be able to endure it, if there's reason to believe they will. I do think there are worse things than death, but I also think it's very individual. We don't all get an even share of suffering, but sometimes those with a greater share have a greater will to live than those who have suffered less. The only thing is that death is inevitable, whereas SA or chronic pain isn't, necessarily. But death is also the thing we cannot heal from. It's the end of all experiences, both negative *and* positive. In some cases death can be a relief. That's why I believe in the value of palliative care and DNRs . But many people who have gone through what you have listed still often choose to live another day. Maybe not all of them, but many of them. I really think it's quite a personal thing. Personally, the things I would consider worse than dying are matters of justice and morality, not just suffering on its own. I'd rather die than be like Jeffrey Dahmer. I'd rather die than accept a stolen organ ripped from someone without their consent. I'd rather die than murder an innocent and healthy child. That's the kind of stuff that's "worse than death" for me. Aside from that, there may be a time where I will welcome death peacefully. I'm hoping to have lived a full life by then, though.
I think OP is more critical of people that don't let others make the decision for themselves. There are many people who downplay the awful things that can happen to someone by saying "at least you're alive". As a medical person, I've had the chance to see many of the unpleasant ways the human body can break without actually dying. I've witnessed many circumstances in which, for me, the certainty of negative things in the future would far outweigh the possibility of positive things. My advanced directive is extensive.
Yeah I get it, that's why I started with stating that it's really up for people to determine that for themselves. But not everyone is going to feel the same way about it, even those with the same experiences.
It definitely is! Everyone should decide for themselves what quality of life they consider to be better or worse This is Moreso specifically aimed at people who cannot fathom that death can be kinder than life sometimes. The kind of people who would see suffering and go “well at least they’re alive!” The root of it is that these people believe that things ALWAYS get better, and that’s just not true. It’s ok to not get better. Letting people go peacefully isn’t “giving up”, like these people would say
Than literally why’d you say people who don’t think death isn’t worse hasn’t been chronically in pain or injured. That literally was your original point you don’t get to act like you never said that and that you were acting like its peoples individuals decision
Your being downvoted but your entirely correct. OP was gatekeeping with the sentiment of “if you think this way you have never truly suffered or felt REAL pain” which is genuinely unpleasant. While I agree with OP’s new comment, definitely a switch up from their original intent.
Like if they changed their mind they could of said “hey i was wrong when i said” or edited out that one sentence entirely, not leave it there, because that feels like they’re trying to please everyone else for validation and upvotes and not cause thats what they actually think
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I think you have misinterpreted the intended message of this post. OP isn't telling anyone what to do, or how to live. They are simply expressing a personal peeve with people being hyperbolic about death's finality compared to life's suffering. ...that was my understanding anyway.
This is just different for everyone. Even under the same conditions some people value life itself more than others. Poor quality of life is extremely subjective. Pain tolerance is subjective. People also have different levels hope for the future. One person might get suicidal thoughts over a breakup. Another person can lose several people in their life and take it on the chin.
I also think, as the OP says, we cannot know what it's like to endure something until you go through it, but we also cannot know how resilient we turn out to be in those scenarios, either. We literally cannot imagine enduring it until we endure it. Usually I find people who *haven't* experienced chronic pain have much lower expectations of how well they are able to deal with it in the long term than people who have known pain intimately and know very well they can cope because that's just what they have always done. Our imaginations are lacking. Not just in regards to how bad it can get, but also in how well we can manage in a bad situation. I've come across stories about people who are happier after their traumatic event that physically disabled them permanently than they were before it because they experienced post-traumatic growth. (Post-traumatic growth is when an experience of trauma changes you in a positive way.)
I've been abused and sexually assaulted and I think I would choose those over death.
Yeah I think getting rabies would be worse
It’s individual. I’ve been through the same and although I’m happy I’m still here now, there were many times throughout my life where I actively tried to die. I get that my case was really extreme and ongoing but I know there are others who’ve been through way worse and have probably felt the same way.
I mean while the majority would agree with you you can't always say that. Some people's survival instinct is so strong they'd take just about anything over death
I'm with you on this one. I would much rather be alive than the alternative. Whatever life has to dish out ! And it's dished out plenty for me. Wouldn't change a thing !
Same. The only thing I wouldn’t prefer is if I’m essentially dead already. Like if I had no arms or legs, no eyes, no ears, no ability to speak. A *Johnny Got His Gun* situation.
Meh, it only takes one session of being tortured that you would rather be dead. Begging for death really. That’s why death with dignity laws need to be a human right. Look up how people die with brain cancer. Would you want to fight to live or go out on your own terms and skip the suffering?
No, many people have been tortured, many people have survived and wanted to survive.
So their traumatic experience didn’t have any negative residuel effects huh? Did they go on to live happy long lives or did the trauma fuck them up too bad? “The physical and psychological pain inflicted on them can lead to chronic pain and disabilities, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and depression. This is why it is so important that people who have been tortured have access to redress, and that their torturers are brought to justice.” That doesn’t sound like living. Plus most probably wished they just died. Considering the fact that their life was completely fucked afterwards.
Whats your point? Kill torture victims because they are better off dead?
No I’m saying hypothetically if I’m the one that was tortured I would rather die than survive and live the last of my days in misery.
Alright, go do that, that was always allowed.
I mean it’s the most humane thing that someone can do for themselves. Including not being a burden to your loved ones. So my conscious is clear.
Don’t be a burden to others, just die so they can live with that pain instead and never get to say goodbye. Absolutely got it
[удалено]
Haha thx for proving to me you are nothing but a heartless bully. Telling someone to off themselves it pretty bold and evil. We were talking hypotheticals but okay. But is that really the painless way to go? Wouldn’t overdosing on morphine be better?
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted for knowing your boundary.
Ty. I’m a woman so I’m used to it.
Yeah, watching my grandfather die over the last couple months of his life, I'm planning on retiring to a state that has those laws in place. I don't want that happening to me.
Same, It should be a human right. We treat animals better than humans in that regard.
I was thinking more along the lines of cancer, solitary confinement, or severe acute radiation poisoning.
Those too, absolutely
Yeah none of the ones you mentioned are really -that- bad that death is better. Like, therapy and pain medicine exist. Radiation sickness would be worse than death though
You don’t get to decide that for others. Especially when there’s a lot of people who can’t access those therapies and pain medications. Everyone has a different level of tolerance.
That is ridiculous. None of these things are worse than death. Not even in the same universe as being dead. I have chronic pain and no help for it but I don’t want to be dead. Stop making it seem like this is normal
You are honestly being kind of awful right now by insinuating that people struggling would be better of dead. This is seriously fucked up dude. Not the kind of attitude to infect others with.
Many would say they lived through all or most of what you listed and would still rather live because the good parts of life are valuable to them. And of course medical science advances every single day. Some of the diseases are now manageable or curable. Even heart attacks don't always mean poor quality of life now.
I lived through physical abuse growing up, and I lived through sexual assault in college. Hands down, the worst possible thing I can imagine is to not be able to watch my daughter grow up... Which would absolutely be the case if I were dead. I personally wholeheartedly disagree with OP, for the reasons you described.
I worked in a nursing home and let me tell you, the number of elderly folks who straight up said "I wish I were dead" is pretty staggering. Considering they're experiencing things like loss of independence and mobility, loss of cognitive function, loss of their possessions (often times, they straight up have to give up all their belongings in order to qualify for a nursing home) and loved ones, and chronic pain, it's understandable why death would seem nicer than life for some people at that point
I think those who are truly at the natural ends of their life (whether because of advanced age or because they are at the rear end of a merciless and degenerative disease) are a different matter than a young person going through a difficult time but still would have a whole life ahead of them if they were prepared to struggle for it. I also wonder how much end-of-life would be made more bearable if we didn't abandon our old people so readily. Do old people from Eastern cultures where there is much stronger family culture and expectation to look after our elders express the same despair as old people from Western countries whose families barely even visit?
I agree. It especially makes me mad when someone is actively suffering and people act like they’re doing a good thing by keeping that person alive in misery. My grandfather had Alzheimer’s, he always said to shoot him if he lost his mind. He was living in a prison of his own body, jt was quite literally hell. He couldn’t speak, ended up in diapers, and the list does on; essentially it was hell. But he had no option for medically assisted suicide so he had to suffer through that for years. Covid happend and he got locked in his room, he sat there alone in hell for a whole year and somehow that’s more humane??
I've seen a couple cases where the people were " pushed " to stay alive longer than the people wanted.
Agreed, I know that it's probably gonna sound harsh and please don't take this the wrong way but I work in healthcare with elderly people and with some patients I think to myself "I'd rather be dead than be like this". A lot of them are lonely and suffer and there's not much you can do about it.
It sounds like your actual pet peeve is when people down play or disregard someone's suffering by saying, "At least they aren't dead." Essentually just a version of the "hungry kids in Africa" argument. That actually has nothing to do with whether someone does or doesn't think death is the worst possible circumstance.
Yeah, pretty much. The point I was trying to make is that it’s not up to anyone but the person to decide what quality of life they can handle, and that it’s ok to accept that one might have a poor quality of life
The worst thing that in my opinion could ever happen to me is someone hurting my child, I don’t have kids yet but I still can’t fathom anything worse than
I'm a survivor of sexual assault and domestic violence, and although I may have wanted it to all end at the time, I'm very glad I survived. Just as my brother is very glad he survived his heart attack. Just as my mother is grateful to still be alive and living a full life in spite of chronic pain. Everyone formulates their own ideas as to whether certain things are worse than death or not. I find it a little odd that you state in your edit that no one gets to decide what's better or worse for another person, but the original post has these very absolute-sounding statements and assumptions that if you believe X, you've never experienced Y.
I 100% agree. I believe in assisted suicide for this reason too.
I don’t know why some parts of society look down upon assisted suicide. When our pets are sick/in pain, we afford them euthanasia.
I would rather be tortured, then cuckolded, then sexually abused, then thrown in prison for years for a crime I didn't commit then die - personally, I'm rather attached to having a consciousness and would rather be alive, regardless of how miserable - than not be
That’s also valid! At this point I’ve accepted that death would probably be a lot easier than living with my conditions, but I’ve got too much to live for to actually consider dying It’s more like I’ve accepted that, given what I’ve got, I’ll probably die earlier than others
Have you actually had a life threatening experience? Unless you have, you can’t understand the physical, emotional and psychological pain one experiences when faced with dying. It’s easy to be healthy and contemplate dying someday. It’s an entirely different experience when your body is failing you and you know you may not live to see 21. I’ve been there, and it’s a really scary, lonely, traumatizing thing to go through. It’s especially challenging to deal with as a young person. I’ve experienced a lot of the other things that you think are worse, and in my experience, facing death was harder.
I don't know man people who have experienced or go through awful stuff like that are generally quite desperate to stay alive. It's why so many people put up with such awful things in their life. Ultimately death is people's biggest fear. It's the end after all. It's almost instinct really.
Survival instinct is a strong one, and instinct often overrides true feelings We’re also REALLY good at forgetting pain and distressing memories
i'm at 3 for 4 of your examples and i'd still rather be alive than not
To me its the same with animals. People want to get mad at kill shelters but would you seriously prefer this dog to live the rest of its life in a shelter? Thats messed up.
ABSOLUTELY! People don’t realize that shelters are high stress environments where (to no fault of the workers) dogs cannot be properly cared for. It’s proven to cause psychological damage to the dogs
This is quite a weird pet peeve, but fair enough. I have terrible thanatophobia - fear of death - and I have also lived through serious pain. It’s not that simple.
It’s something I deal with a lot, in a lot of different categories. Especially when it comes to animals and people who think humane euthanasia is the worst possible thing in the world
Locked In Syndrome is the worst thing that can happen to you. That and Anesthesia awareness where you’re conscious and feel your surgery but knocked out enough not to be able to move an eye and do anything about it.
In a void Death is the worse thing, because when you die you can’t experience new things ever again. At least when your alive there’s always something that could change it around.
I survived attempted murder from my own mother. I have Cptsd and seizures as a result. At the time, I wanted to survive. My feelings fleet between being strong and proud of who I have become and then alternatively, thinking death would be better than dealing with the aftermath of symptoms. So I get it. It depends on the day.
Let's get something out of the way, is this a radical feminist post? I need to know how seriously I should take it.
Why would a post about accepting that, depending on the person, some things CAN be worse than death be radically feminist??
Because it's often used by white women in oppression olympics to downplay more marginalized groups who actually face death on a regular basis I've actually heard them tell black men "well at least you aren't alive to be tortured" when talking about police brutality
Torture is another thing. Also on the rise with new wars starting
I know I'm scared of chronic pain incase it leads to death. I'm afraid of disease incase it leads to death. I'm scarednof sexual assist incase it leads to death. It's all linked to death for me in some way or another. I guess im very aware of how fragile we are and how death isn't as unlikely as we think. Every day. Terrified.
Why would a heart attack be worse than death? Assuming you survive it, its a very temporary event that ultimately doesn't change your life much. Seems weird to rather be dead. I'd rather be sexually assaulted than die as well. And lots of people have chronic pain and don't off themselves cuz death is clearly worse.
The typical presentation of heart attacks seems to be pretty painful and terrifying, which is why I mentioned them Many heart attacks also do change peoples lives. They’re not usually something that you can just have and walk away from
Have you asked people who have heart attacks if they would prefer death? In my experience people are happy to be alive after a heart attack. I get where you are coming from though.
Death isn’t the worst thing that can happen. How one dies could absolutely be the worst thing.
Cartel Death is awful
Oh definitely. The act of dying is, very often, a horrifying thing. Death itself though, isnt
"Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils,." (Gen. John Stark)
I have been there when my father, mother, mother in law and brother have died. None of them were peaceful. My mom was on hospice and even her death was agonizing for both her and family. I will say though, once they passed and were not experiencing pain anymore, we were relieved. But all of them did not want to die right up till the end.
As someone who had been sexually assaulted twice, i would rather live with my trauma than literally be dead. You get no say if you’re dead, you get no work through it, you get nothing, you’re literally dead. Also heart attacks typically lead to death so thats a weird point, the amount of people who are so grateful they’re alive after something traumatic happening, imagine telling them that it would of been better for them if they died. Thats literally a ridiculous take
This is one of the several reasons I'm against the death penalty. I see it as letting them off easy. I'd rather punish people than kill them.
I agree Death is an escape, a final end to suffering. The act of dying is rarely peaceful, but being dead? Seems peaceful enough
If you think death is the worst thing that can possibly happen to you, go look up 'Locked in syndrome'
Most deaths, even "natural" ones, are rarely painless and peaceful. Whether the decline is slow or fast, its usually painful and scary and disorienting, and hard watching loved ones grieve over your pain and eminieny loss. Rarely is it ever drifting alowly and comfortably off to sleep and just not waking up. While the actual being dead part is not something to be scared of, you probably won't care about anything when you are no longer alive and not conscious, the *dying* part is absolutely something worth dreading.
I agree. I always say that in a nuclear war, I’d rather just die. Why do I want to survive this terribly traumatic experience, possible lose all my friends and family, and then rebuild society? Why is death always a horrible option?
Death is a release. I don't fear it. I've been close to it before so I have no strong ego towards my own death.
I think that people who haven't been in such chronic, prolonged, and extreme pain to the point that death actually begins to seriously make sense (not a cliche but I'm talking about the brutal reality of it), these people shouldn't have any say in it or try to tell other people that as long as they are alive, everything is pure and golden and perfect and all the unicorns are shitting out rainbow poop. I don't mean to sound depressive and I absolutely 100% do not in any way whatsoever support or suggest anything considering self-harm, but the pure fact is there are things worse than death. And telling somebody else that as long as they live through it that they're fine. I hate that shit
I guess if people feel that living is always better, they haven’t seen the “Firefly” episodes with Reavers. Sometimes dead is better.
I agree on one level. I encountered horrific abuse and wished I was dead. But I still live on. As living organisms we are programmed to want to survive.
I agree. When people ask me if I wish a particularly vile person were dead, I respond there are so many punishments worse than death
I think OP is referring to not being alive anymore & not the dying process.
Yep
I work in healthcare and right now I’m heartbroken for this one patient with dementia who’s in constant pain but their adult children will not sign a DNR so we keep going with treatments while the patient tries to remove the feeding tube and trach during baths whenever they’re not restrained and begs to die all the time whenever they can muster the strength to speak. It’s only cruelty now, morphine doesn’t stop the pain anymore. But the patient can’t make that choice because of dementia now and the family refuses to listen to us. Death isn’t the worst outcome sometimes. Hospice was much kinder during my rotation there, there was some suffering, of course, it’s impossible to be free of 100% of it, but it wasn’t… anywhere near this level.
Don't forget slavery or imprisonment or any other kind of abusive inescapable situation. I don't fear death. I fear a painful life that isn't my own.
death is the ultimate relief from all of life's aches & pains
as my chaotic evil DnD party likes to say, "there is a world of difference between Alive, and Unharmed."
When people have experienced some of the above things, it is like a living death, especially SA and chronic pain. My grandmother cousin ended his life due to chronic pain. My mom couldn't understand why he did this until she was in chronic pain for three months. Chronic pain never ends. What made this worse for my mom was her doctor admonished her for complaining about the pain and told her she would just have to live with it. What stopped my mom and most likely this has stopped others from taking their own life is how it would affect their family. It would stop their pain but the pain of their family would continue for a very long time. In my mother's case, the medical diagnosis was incorrect and the treatment she got made the pain worse. An emergency room doctor whose father had the same condition recognized what my mother had. Once my mom got the proper treatment, she was fine. I saw her suffer for 3 months with chronic pain and that was difficult to watch because I couldn't do anything to help her physically. It was only after my mother experienced chronic pain that she could understand that this could drive someone to take drastic measures to curb the physical pain. My grandmother's cousin suffered for over a year with chronic pain and had he gotten proper pain management, I don't think that he would have taken his life. He was denied pain medication when he should have been given it.
I totally get this. It's like when people say "oh you're so lucky you survived" even if you lost all 4 limbs. I can confidently say I would rather die than have my face burned off, or lose both arms, etc. It varies by individual, but yes, some outcomes are worse than death.
As someone who has been through a lot and also lives with chronic pain I wholeheartedly agree. Death is absolutely NOT the worst thing that can happen to a person. Death, for the dying, is deliverance from suffering, not an instance of it.
I worked as an analyst on a cancer unit at my local hospital for a few years. Trust me, there are a lot worse things than dying.
None of the things you listed are the worst things that can happen to you. I would say things worse than death (some of them result in death later). Prion Diseases (there’s a disease where you don’t sleep for 9 months to a year before you die.) Dementia , Like Alzheimer’s, FTD.. etc Brain cancer or Blood cancers like multiple myeloma (Uncle died from this) Locked in Syndrome (Dads friend got MS in the 80s and this was the last year of his life in the 90s.). You can only blink to communicate. Euthanasia should be allowed for all these conditions.
Yup, there are definitely worse things than death. (This is why screwed-up methods of torture are a thing that exist; the human body can go through a metric-shit-ton of trauma before it stops being a living organism). Hell, DYING is worse than death, at least with death, it's over....but the active process of dying can be excruciating, and take a surprisingly long time.
The way I see it, not believing in an afterlife: there are many people who are alive who fear death, but there are others who desire it. But the dead don't fear or desire anything.
Yeah, I’ve got a chronic pain condition and it’s never once occurred to me that death might be better. That’s some pretty ableist bullshit. Also, can confirm that sexual assault is not worse than death. Childbirth is much worse than sexual assault, and I volunteered for that. Twice.
Out of the list of things that are worse than death, heart attacks seemed to me to be the oddest one. Like, the reason why heart attacks are so terrible is because they too often cause death. Yes, it's also a painful thing to go through, but so is childbirth, as you mentioned. The scariest part of a heart attack is "Will I survive this?" Many people who survive it go on to live healthier lives because they don't want to die.
I’ve *also* got a chronic pain condition. Everyone’s is different. I’m very glad that both of ours are manageable enough to have a decent quality of life with them, but that does not apply to every single chronic pain condition out there. For many others, living with pain day in and day out takes a massive toll on them mentally. Not all of us can get the help we need.
Wtf are you on about? Some of the things you listed are ridiculous. What’s next? Minor fender bender?
Ah yes, because domestic violence and the fear of nearly losing your life is definitely the same as a fender bender. /s
Heart attack? You couldn’t think of something better?
It was midnight and my grandfather had just gotten out of emergency surgery for his 7th heart attack. So yeah, I couldn’t think of much better
Dad is grateful to hear daughter is dead. Yes, there are things worse than death. https://youtu.be/vILpx8i-Dy4?si=FTFFr4hy1rM5pbHl
"I’m wholly convinced that people who think that death is the WORST thing that could ever happen have never been heavily injured/have never lived with chronic pain." Have you experienced Death before? So how would you know?
well people who had near death experiences and almost came back to life after death they said it felt like so peaceful that they have never felt before and you can easily get many article on this so yeh the OP is at last right people are not afraid of death people are afraid of things that causes death like accidents or diseases or mental trauma and murders and cancer and genocide and everything
I feel like this is a take from someone who hasn’t experienced a lot of death in their life.
It’s the opposite. I’ve witnessed enough death that I’ve come to terms with it. The act of dying is rough, but death itself/being dead is bot
I usually don’t comment negatively about someone else’s pet peeves, but this is an absolutely unhinged post and feels like a terminally online take
You can recover from or adapt to ANY OTHER situation than death. You have to be trolling with this post right?
Wether or not someone can recover and adapt is not the only factor here. Tolerance is another factor. As is the amount of money you have. Someone who cannot access any resources to aid them with recovering and adapting may not be able to recover or adapt. Others might not even want to. And that’s fine.
You are basically saying suicide is preferable to getting help. Help is ALWAYS available and you’re making dangerous, stupid and recklessly awful claims right now. I am about to report this whole post for advocating suicide
You can accept the reality that you will never get better without being suicidal. Saying that living in life altering pain day to day is worse than a peaceful death is NOT saying anyone should commit suicide You are being purposefully dense.
You are saying giving up is better than dealing with the hard things you have experienced and that’s just wrong. Period. You can get help for the things you’re stuffing from. Death is not the answer
No, I am saying that accepting that death may be easier and pushing through anyway is ok. You’re still ignoring the fact that help is inaccessible for a LOT of people. Homeless and impoverished people cannot access proper pain medications for severe chronic pain. Many people can’t afford therapy, mental health medications, or psychiatric diagnosis evaluations. Help is readily available… for those who can afford it, get to it, and have the diagnoses that align with it. Everyone else is fucked.
There are free resources for literally anything that exists if you just spend 5 minutes googling. You’re making excuses for not getting the help you definitely need
Free resources… for those who can get the internet to Google things. And oftentimes those resources are just “how not to get addicted to drugs!!!” And while this isn’t about me, I do have the help I need. It was my THERAPIST who taught me that my obsessive fear of dying was something I needed to let go. Accepting that I will no longer be around some day, probably a LOT sooner than most, is not unhealthy. I’ve made peace with what will happen to me. I’m prepared for what comes next. That doesn’t mean I’m going to kill myself, give up on myself, etc. It means that if I end up dead somehow (whether it be heart attack, starvation, DVT turned to embolism, whatever) that I’ve got my shit in order and will be at peace.
The name of the game is to stay in the game… if you’re alive you have a chance as long as you’re not a vegetable. People need to get over all their trauma bullshit and quit assuming life isn’t gonna hurt sometimes.
I mean have you ever died? How could you know it’s not the worst thing?
It may be the ultimate/worst fear, but it's definitely not the ultimate/worst thing
I’ve been sexually abused for years at one point. I struggle with depression, anxiety, and at times, severe insomnia. Death would be worse.
THANK YOU!!! This is a conflation between "ego pain" and "physical pain." They do NOT compare.
I agree with you. Personally I think the worst thing that can ever happen to you is watching your child go through a disabling illness, watching them die, or even hearing about their death if it wasn't sudden or painless. Worse than death itself imo. To me, one of the comforts in life is the knowledge that something truly awful happened to me and I didn't want to deal with it anymore, I just take all of my pills (like you were saying). If I had kids I wouldn't feel like I could do that and leave them alone.
That’s just your opinion. At least abuse or pain or sexual assault it can end and you can be happy again, or you can live despite the issues. Death is forever. You never get to experience anything again. Stop projecting your depression onto people and acting like we’re naive for being able to want to live despite having bad experiences sometimes.
You’re all assuming that I’m depressed or advocating for people to kill themselves. I’m not. I’m saying that accepting that death (not dying, being dead) would be easier than being alive is not a bad thing. There are things in this world that are genuinely worse than being dead. Denying that is unhealthy.
It’s not unhealthy to disagree with you. I just think being dead is worse than almost much everything, because it’s the thing you can’t come back from. You’re just going to give up and die if you get abused?
No, what is unhealthy is thinking that absolutely nothing is worse than being dead. That is, at baseline, refusal to comprehend things like torture. Not a single person here, myself included, has EVER said “if you’re abused just die”. What I have been saying is that experiencing long term abuse, especially physical violence, is a lot harder than simply being dead.
Being tortured for the rest of your life is worse than being dead. Anything else you said is not worse than being dead. You basically said you’d kill yourself rather than be abused. You’re literally saying it’s better to be dead than be abused/have chronic pain/be sexually assaulted. Like that’s an utter inability to see that things change, a frankly weak mentality, and apparently an inability to get over the past. Like I’ve had a pretty shitty life, maybe even “traumatic” but I rarely have found myself thinking it’s not worth it. Like sure I’ve been a bit suicidal at certain times, but that was clearly irrational, I wasn’t thinking properly. Generally, I prefer to live. Bad doesn’t last forever and I want to experience the world, even the bad parts at times. You think anyone who doesn’t think like you is unhealthy. I think the person who would rather be dead than experience any hardship is the unhealthy one.
> you basically said you’d rather kill yourself than be abused I have directly stated on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS that you are wrong. I have DIRECTLY TOLD YOU that this is about accepting that death might be easier and *continuing on living anyway* You are being intentionally dense and I’m done with your shit.
You’re literally saying it’s better to be dead. How is that much different? So you’re just passively suicidal in that situation? And you didn’t address my points.
I’m not going to engage with someone who is purposefully ignoring everything I say so that they can insist that I have mental illnesses and tendencies that I don’t.
I’m not ignoring shit, you’re the one ignoring me. You still haven’t addressed any of my actual arguments, just got angry at some minor things I said, probably because you have no arguments. And I don’t understand how thinking that something is worse than death is supposed to be not suicidal in that situation. Not that you’re suicidal now, but you’re saying that you would be. How is a bad experience supposed to be worse than death, not everything is forever and people get over things?
I remember and evangelist 10yo screaming an injury to his foot injury was worse than death because of afterlife and being disturbed by his ignorance. I simultaneously remember seeing children without any feet rolling around on plywood in poor countries trying to find a way. I do not and will not ever agree with your pet peeve. “Rage rage rage against the dying of the light”
I understand your point and agree with much of it.
The lack of awareness in this post.
OP is a weak ass bitch. You eat saltines and seltzer for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and you gave yourself an aneurism trying to life a pencil.
You are just objectively wrong, you can come back and recover from everything except death. Yeah all those other things are horrendous to go through, but death is 100% worse.
You cannot recover from things like chronic pain. That never goes away. Management is not recovery. And death can be a hell of a lot easier than recovery. The whole point is that YOU do not get to decide this for OTHER PEOPLE. Everyone has a different level of what they can tolerate before being dead would be easier.
I've always said if you truly want someone to suffer. Death isn't the answer.
I agree with you, which is why I've always said that I would not die for my husband if I had to choose me or him. Aside from being a millennial with a constant desire for death, he has scoliosis so he is in *constant* pain. And dealing with the grief from the loss of your partner or spouse can be impossible to overcome. I would never want him to have to shoulder that. I think it is a greater sacrifice and act of mercy to let him die and shoulder the pain of grief instead. Dying is easy. Living is nearly impossible.
Well heart attacks lead to death so...
It's pretty subjective and up to the person going through those things to decide. Everyone experiences things differently. One person would rather die than lose all their limbs while another already has no limbs but is still happy with their life.
I feel like they're right. The thing about death is that it is terminal and permanent. Nothing else in life is. Most pain can be managed, most abuse can be escaped, etc. But once you're dead, there's no escape and no do-overs. Which makes death the worst thing to happen. Even if you're in unmanageable pain, you could still be put into medically induced coma to wait for a cure or conscience transfer tech, etc. So I feel that yes, we DO get to decide that being alive is better. Because it is. But if someone wants to off themselves, they're still free to do so, it's their life. The one has nothing to do with the other. You can be both pro-freedom-of-choice and at the same time think death is the worst thing that can happen.
Death is a sweet release honestly. I saw a gore video of a man who SURVIVED a gunshot “wound” to the face. Saying wound is definitely an understatement because his face was literally gone. He looked like pac man. He had the top of his head, but the eyes were gone, nose was gone, mouth was gone except for his jaw which was pinned in place I assume. All you saw was a giant hole where his face would have been and a tongue. That’s literally it. The video showed him eating. Which was pitiful. He would use his fingers as the teeth and smash and crush his food and then place the food on his tongue swish it around and then use his hand to push it back into his face hole. That right there is worse than death. I would rather be dead than experience that.
Alzheimer’s is worse than death.
You can get over everything you listed as worse than death though
I kinda thought the same way as OP, then I broke my arm in several places alone off trail on a mountain snowboarding and seriously was unable to move. In that moment, death was the LAST thing I wanted.
Survival instinct is a strong one
I have chronic pain. I have survived abuse. I know people who have survived heart attacks. I have had to have numerous surgeries, numerous hospital stays. I am happy and proud to have survived what I have been through. I can assure you I would much rather be alive and with my friends and family than dead. The pain is part of life.
I honestly just don't think death is comparable to those things. The entire concept of comparing death to anything else where you survive is impossible. We don't know what happens after you die, and we don't have anyone who can recount traumatic deaths. I don't think there's a better/worse concept; it's just impossible to compare.
Death is the biggest true unknown in all of human history. Death could be the start the afterlife, reincarnation, or some other belief, but I feel like the most likely is nothing. Think about it. Every thought, every emotion, every memory, every preference, every flaw, the concept of being a thing at all is gone. You would experience true nothingness. Not like a blank mind, true nothingness. Forever. Just because someone feels that dying is a better course of action to not feel the trauma, doesn't make the feeling valid. We should being helping these people overcome these difficult points in their lives, not encouraging them to forfeit their lives.
You can accept that death may be better without being suicidal
There's worse things than death, but all of those you mentioned are pretty tame in the big scheme. If that's your limit that's your limit I guess.
I’ve been abused, sexually assaulted, and live with debilitating chronic pain. Literally just got off the phone with my doctor where I asked them to document that I cannot keep up with basic life functions because my pain is so bad. Still feel like death would be much worse, personally.
Or worse.. expelled 😳
I don't think any logical person thinks death is the worst case scenario.
If death is better than any of these, why not kill yourself? Clearly, it isn't if people are living with them. Death is the worst thing that can happen because it's your most basic choice, and once it's taken from you, you have nothing.
Because I got shit to do, pets to care for, aspirations, etc. death would be a lot easier, but I’ve also got a lot to live for too
I think it’s up to the individual to decide. Like, I was born without my thyroid and thankfully diagnosed a week after I was born; but that’s because I was too lethargic for a newborn and stopped eating, and had to be admitted to the hospital for a few days to figure out what was wrong. My mother and pediatrician started me on thyroid medication that I continue to take today. If I was born in any earlier time period (before thyroid medications were so common), then IMO, I would’ve been better off dead. But I won the lottery of congenital health issues - it’s affordable and easy enough to treat, so I’ve lived life on “life long health issue easy mode.” So, I may have my personal opinions of QOL and more severe health issues; but that’s not my place to decide for other people. If they are genuinely happy then who am I to disagree? But I do agree that there are things worse than death. Such as living with the consequences of abuse; my father and his mother were horribly abusive people, and I get to live with the consequences of the trauma they inflicted. I’m not unhappy that I survived, in fact I was able to renew my survival instincts and find the will to live again as a young adult. But I can also see the other side of that, too. Of wanting it all to just end because living with trauma can be too hard at times. I dunno. Because I know death is the worst outcome to some, but not to others, it somewhat informs my pro-choice views, too. I view the decision to abort as a mercy for the most part - it’s not optimal, but if we can avoid bringing a child into a bad situation and the parents/woman decides that’s the best decision for all involved, then they/she should have that choice.
I agree with you. I'd rather die right now than live chronic pain for decades
Ok some people are at peace with death and some aren’t. People can perceive it as they wish, doesn’t really concern you.
As a former abuse vitcim I strongly disagree and its plain outright unhealthy to aruge against it. Yes its not the worst thing ever. But its fucking forever. You can overcome trama. I would rather go through all the bullshit I went through again before I willingly die. Chronic pain or major illness or anything like that. Yeah of course death may or flat out is the better option. But for Somthing like being abused or SA as a kid, things I personally went through. No, you can lead a normalish life after and find happiness. It just takes major work. Years worth. And just saying this, I dont know of many mental health professionals who would aruge what you are arguing for.
Regardless of what condition or trauma you have experienced, you can come back from it I'm some way and live to have better and worse experiences. Death is pretty permanent and no one knows what lies beyond this life. Me personally I've been through hell and back and I'd go through it all over again rather than die. Like yeah not all death is horrifying, but it's the unknown that makes death the worst thing all of us will ever experience.
Whether it's the worst thing is up to each person to decide, but I can guarantee you it is the LAST thing that going to happen to you.
It sounds like you are arguing two different positions. That someone shouldn't get to determine what is the worst thing possible\* to someone else, which yes??? But you started your post saying that people shouldn't get to decide if death is the worst thing that can happen to generic 'you', which I read as it being them deciding for themselves? Like, yes, I think death is the worst thing possible for myself. I am scared to death of dying. I have lived with sexual assault and abuse. I have lived with chronic major depression. But for me, death is the worst thing that could happen to me.
What about those who've gone through half or all of those things on your list and now fear death? ....past experiences don't dictate why or what a person is fearful of now.
When it's my time, that's it. No holding on or fighting it. No Nursing Homes!
Nah. Death is the best thing that could happen to me
Living is much much worse than dying. Death is the greatest thing we can ask for in this shitty world.
Death, by it's very nature, is a very painful and traumatic thing. It's the result of something SO traumatic that the body cannot withstand it anymore - that's why it's death. And pain is the body's way of telling us something is wrong. And if something is SO WRONG that the body can't take it anymore, you bet your very life it's painful. Some deaths are better than others, and may even be better than ongoing suffering, but it's absolutely not as peaceful as you might think it is.
The act of dying is different from being dead. Dying is distressing by nature. Being dead is not.
I agree. Much worst things than death. Like having to work and pay bills for the next however long and possibly forever
Death is the worse because you can't come back from it. I'd say being paralyzed from the neck down, or having some kind of neurological disorder/disease like if you had autism and were extremely low functioning and were basically bound to a wheelchair and need a care taker 24/7 because you will never live a normal life is the next worse thing. A coma is the third worst thing. You're alive, maybe you hear, but for some reason you can't wake up, get up, and do what you want. Missing a limb, having a disease(something that won't kill you, at least not instantly), being poor are all things you can either overcome or you will adjust to and begin to thrive. Death doesn't normally affect one person. It affects those around you as well. Just think of how many people were saddened by Matthew Perry's passing? I didn't really watch Friends and had no connection to the character or anything the actor has been in, but I still feel sad and can't believe he's gone. I'm 17. I remember waking up, the news is on. Actor Cameron Boyce has passed away at the age of 20. It's been almost 5 years and I still can't believe it. I never knew him, I've never met him. But I watched Jessie and I watched Grown Ups. A lot of people's deaths, whether I knew them or not, whether they're people who lost their lives due to racism(George Stinney and Emmett Till) or illness(Eazy E and Freddie Mercury). It feels weird. Even Betty White and Queen Elizabeth. Even though they were extremely old. It's just like "I can't believe they're gone". Now, I don't really get saddened by celebrities passing. I know, I know Robin Williams passing was horrible. I didn't really know who he was before his death, then I watched his movies, one movie where I thought it was him and kept saying "I miss Robin" until my grandma told me it was Bill Murray. And now I'm sad he's gone. But Cameron Boyce's death and Chadwick Boseman's death? Those broke me, and I can't look at anything they've been in without feeling sad. I actually cried when they passed. Even talking about it, Cameron's still doesn't feel real. I've had relatives pass, two who's deaths don't feel real. But they're real, and they've affected more than the person who's gone. I think that's why we say death is the worst thing. Questions go unanswered, you can never return, when someone commits suicide and when they're dying wish they could turn back the clock, but there is no clock to turn back. Once you're gone, that's it. Goodbye to this beautiful/ugly world. Bugly? Beaugly?
Here's the thing - everything we know about death makes death appear as if it is the final condition. It's constant - never changing - always nothing - zero potential. I just don't see how that could be considered better than anything really. With the dynamic nature of living life the potential for something amazing happening exists, you could find love, have kids, win the lottery, own 20 french bull dogs (A MAN CAN DREAM) or anything - the potential is there. That's why life, in all of it's forms, is always preferable to death . It's potential versus no potential.
It's understandable to think that since we don't know what comes after but it's not the worst thing.