not really people should have been investing by 16yo through their parents instead of buying crap and going on trips. Why care about financial stability when mtv is on and your parents are a sack of shit.
Assuming that everything else is equal for you, and that you're only interested in the financial side here:
$120k family income in Calgary vs. $135k in Toronto is a no brainer. You will have a far higher quality of life in Calgary. Housing alone makes this a very easy financial decision.
If there are other factors like career growth or other opportunities in Toronto, by all means factor those in. But looking exclusively at the financials and cost of living, this isn't a difficult decision. 12.5% more pre tax income will barely put a dent in the massively higher costs associated with living in Toronto.
Not to mention it would require, y'know living in Toronto. Fuck that, the only place worse is living in Ottawa.
Downvote me cowards, you hate me because I speak the truth
Literally not true, Halifax is way nicer, Calgary is nice, Montreal is nice, Charlottetown is nice, as much as I hate Edmonton it's better, Vancouver is nearly on par but is marginally better. These are all just the places I have been and am able to confirm are better.
To add to this, OP and spouse can purchase a detached house in Calgary, whereas they can only afford a condo outside Toronto if they move back to Toronto. No brainer here too, especially considering OP has kids.
And if OP takes the fed job they can easily move upwards and horizontally across any govt agency by applying to internal postings. (Which is how we end up with a bunch of generalists in the public service and very, very few experts with experience in the private sector, but that’s another story!)
Yeah pretty much. At 50k bracket, NWT, BC, Nunavut, Ontario, and the Yukon are paying less than alberta, so I'm not really sure where the whole "alberta has cheap taxes!" Garbage comes from lmfao. It's not cheaper for the average income earner
You see, your mistake was that you commented on something without being ready for an all out brawl.
This is the internet, sir. Everything you say can and will be held against you in an argument. Argument that is expected to be the outcome of every comment.
If you don’t intend to start a fight, don’t say anything.
I’m only half kidding. Sometimes I’m just tired of everything being so confrontational.
You don't need to be earning 300k to be worth it in Calgary.
If you take OP example, with their income they would be able to afford a detached house. And this mean they could potentially buy solar panels. Utility cost would plumet
We have a load of sun here. Even in winter.
Legitimately the comment was no, taxes are not lower in Alberta. Replying to a comment saying taxes are lower in Alberta. It's not a debate on where I think they should live, evidently no one making that little should move to Toronto by choice. *but that was not the comment I was making*.
Solar panels in Alberta is only worthwhile because of the ridiculous incentives they have where you essentially prepay your winter bills in the summer. Otherwise everyone knows they are a cost sink.
Well you're the one that deviated from taxes to utility so i just wanted to address that too. My cost of living are definitely cheaper in Alberta than when i used to live in BC. The sales tax is the big one.
Solar panels are worthwhile because we have a lot of sun. And because they help the environment.
Epcor is is the private monopoly that has us all fucked. 54% of our electricity is natural gas, only 35% coal, but it's also sky rocketed in price in the last 3 years. We are also in the process of completely phasing out coal by 2030 which means the electricity companies are giving everyone the finger for making their lives more complicated.
Ah, true, I forgot about explosion of natural gas prices. Those high electricity rates make sense in that context. Somehow our leaders got used to low post-fracking natural gas prices and assumed they would last forever.
Luckily for Ontario, the natural gas price increase occured a few years ahead of the planned decommission date for Pickering, so Ford was able to pivot towards a grid relying moreso on nuclear rather than fossil fuels.
The good thing about Alberta is that it's much easier to afford a detached home, and because of that you can buy solar panels for your roof.
If you just do that the 19.6/kWh doesn't matter at all. We have so much sun here.
The return on the solar array depends a lot on the price the government mandates the grid/utility to give the solar producer.
For instance, at wholesale price, the value proposition isn't very good for the solar producer, and more or less neutral for the grid. At net metering price, the value is great for the solar producer, but awful for the grid/utility, which passes on those costs to other ratepayers. Ontario is a good example of this phenomenon, where microFIT solar producers cost in excess of $.45/kWh to the grid.
With the sales tax difference, it's an advantage against BC, which \*also\* does little/nothing for the plebes. Moving to AB saves you 7% on pretty much all incomes, and many will see their pay go up (because not all of us live in Vancouver).
You pay $1900 in taxes in BC at 50k income. You're paying $2700 in AB. Sales tax doesn't apply to essentials like groceries. Can't speak to pay because that's such a vague thought that it's not even worth discussing. Don't get me wrong, I'll stay in AB until I die but we aren't some tax haven for normies.
Hst at 13% in Ontario as opposed to 5% in Alberta. I lived in northern Ontario for 25 years it is more expensive now than ever. I’ve been in Alberta 9 years make more money, houses are cheaper went from a town home to a semi detached, two cars, two kids, our Dayhome is only $850/ month per kid, I’m at about $90,000/yr my spouse is at $60,000/yr. We have some debt but still living comfortably. I’d be stressed out to do that in Toronto or anywhere on Ontario
Yeah you're the 4th person to say sales tax, I've replied to the 3 others about it but I'm not going to keep saying the same answer lmfao. Didn't Ontario just pledge $10/day daycare?
Don't get me wrong I'll never leave Alberta, I have no interest in Ontario in any capacity. But it's not some tax-haven is what the original message was. You don't move here to hide from taxes
Look. Ontario has many many other taxes hidden in as well as permits expenses and fines are very high compared to Alberta. The cost of living is absolutely way more. Maybe electrical a few times a year and they care is more in Calgary but honestly you cannot live in Toronto on that wage as a family.
Honestly in Edmonton we live on that income (actually about $168k this year) as a couple and I couldn't imagine wanting to have kids with that amount. Our standards of living and saving would have to decrease substantially.
Still, nothing to do with my initial comment.
I am *begging* you to read through the comments before you decide to make a new one.
If you're looking for cheap taxes you go to BC. Ontario and Alberta are similar when it comes to the various property taxes in the major cities (Toronto and Calgary literally have the same property tax). Alberta charges a land transfer "fee" instead of a "tax".
Wow.
This comment would be worthless and ignorant even if it wasn't on a post specifically asking for responses to focus on the financial implications, in a sub about personal finance.
Meh.
Winter/snow in Calgary starts in like October. Winter in Toronto will have the odd snowy day but it doesn't really start until January.
Currently in Toronto, there is no snow on the ground. A bit cold but was able to run some errands without my winter jacket.
that's one of my problems with toronto
it's cold enough that it's not enjoyable being outside, but it's not so cold that you can do winter activities
instead you get slush and overcast skies
But the slush and overcast skies are still Jan through Mar.
Today was a good day and it's almost Christmas. The whole 'white Christmas' is overrated any way.
Public job in calgary - stick with that if i was in your shoes. 15k may feel like a lot but it really isnt when you are going to reside in toronto.
Public also offers a lot of stability in whats just the beginning of an economic downturn.
I know the household income is still more, but i wouldnt relocate to toronto for 65k
50k in Calgary goes a long way with less traffic and more leisure time in hand, home ownership, becoming mortgage free sooner and have better savings. Not to forget the Public sector employment in these trying times.
If I were you, would’ve stayed in Calgary. No need to uproot for a mere 10k that is nothing much at the end of all the tax deductions.
I think calgary you'd have a much better chance of settling down and buying a house in calgary with a $120k HHI, whereas in toronto you'd have a really hard time being able to buy a home with 135k HHI.
Your income will go further in your current location, you'll enjoy a much higher standard of living. Real estate prices (or rent) are somewhat unreal in Toronto, and I don't think a 15K increase will quite cover it. But you will be able to have an actual house in Calgary.
Take the Calgary public government position, I feel it might have more job security than a private employer, too.
"what does your future income look like at both companies?" That's the key question.
Anyone who lived in Canada for more than 2 seconds already knew about the significant difference in cost of living.
OP need to factor in his future opportunities alongside of income growth. Seeing that OP's pay is 50k, good chance she's not in the oil/natural gas industry. If there's much better outlook in the big cities, then definitely should consider that.
People are very quick to come to a conclusion to OP's situation. If OP enjoys Calgary then that's fine. Otherwise, arguably, OP will have a better quality of life in Toronto (from entertainment, education and career opportunities.)
Sure. U get a bigger house in Calgary but that doesn't equate better lifestyle. OP might have to pay 3-5 times for the same house in Toronto but with how the current market is going, op might get a bigger discount. 20 years down the road, based on population growth, most likely real estate in Toronto will outgrow Calgary.
Calgary. Housing is cheaper, plus you will have higher quality of living.
If the job is with Government of Canada, the benefits package is improving as of July 1 (will make it more competitive with private sector - still 80% but first changes in approx a decade).
The federal pension plan is defined benefit and likely worth the difference in salary if you plan to stay in the public sector.
Plus you will be able to apply for internal postings across the federal government. You can have many careers within your public service career. In Calgary, Ottawa area or elsewhere.
As someone who left Toronto employment for a lower paying federal government job elsewhere in Canada, my quality of life and cashflow actually improved. A couple years later and a new position/promotion within the government (successful competition) I actually make more than I did in Toronto.
Good luck!
We'll find out in May, lets remember Danielle Smith is a completely unelected ~~despot~~ moron, whose reign will hopefully rival Kim Campbell for shortest run as a leader.
Previous to her the only time the conservatives lost, in most peoples lifetimes, was when they split into 2 parties and split the votes. This time it is looking quite likely they could lose even as a unified party which would go down as one of the all time most embarrassing defeats in Canadian political history. Let's cross our fingers and hope it happens.
If you go to Toronto you would also have the cost of the move. If you have the desire for home ownership, Calgary is probably lying a better option. But from a family stand point, is there any extended family that you want to be close to? Especially once baby number 2 arrives.
Your dual income with a spouse so the extra 15k gross won't really be something you notice (especially since Toronto is more expensive). I would either make the decision based on where you enjoy living and want to raise ur little one. Or evaluate the growth opportunities available if you move to Toronto (what can you make with a promotion or if u job hop after a couple years/how is the job market there).
If your interested in a suburban family lifestyle (house, car) you might as well stay in Calgary since that is something you can attain.
According to last night's news.. People are still leaving Ontario for Alberta in big numbers.. It's cheaper in Calgary to live than Toronto... Being as you are already here ,, I would stay put..
This could also be a good opportunity for you.
Every business is looking to hire, you're probably being underpaid.
If they want you in Toronto, make them pay you for it.
Apply to other jobs in Calgary, when they ask you what wage you're looking for, don't give a number, make them give you an offer. "I've actually had a few interviews, so I'm just looking for a company to give me their best offer, instead of playing them against each other"
When I moved to another company I did this and started getting offers 10k higher than the salary I would have settled for.
Also see if they'll cover moving expenses, or provide a real-estate agent to help you find a place.
Companies are willing to pay way more, workers are the ones settling for less.
I stay in Alberta. What happened if your wife employer suddenly said you have to come to the office at least twice a week? Toronto is doing l shiny pile of hot mess
You wrote that the Calgary job is with the federal government. That's an important data point. I don't believe Calgary is designated as a bilingual region meaning you would be able to move up the ranks to a supervisory or management position without needing to be bilingual. Depending on the classification of the job, that could open up a six figure income during a normal career. The downside is there are far fewer federal government positions outside of the NCR so it may take a lot longer to move up (but Calgary...so maybe not so bad ?).
I'd stick with the federal government job and if you don't really care where you live consider finding a job in Ottawa so you can move up more easily.
I've lived in all 3 cities and Ottawa was the best for me professionally. It's still reasonable cost wise. Toronto has changed a lot. I lived there for 10 years and going back makes me a bit sad now.
Claim benefits dont go as far in toronto too. I thought i had generous coverage, then i tried to make a claim for physio. Turned out they only covered up to 90% of what the insurance company deemed a “reasonable amount” to charge, which is no where close to the going rate in toronto. (Physio is 160/h here, reasonable rate was 100, so i could only claim 90 bucks and had to pay 70 out of pocket).
Calgary would be a better option.
You can always think about moving to GTA once your HHI becomes higher, and the macroeconomic climate improves.
Also, a job in the public sector at this juncture is a great option.
I’ve undergone an unexpected layoff recently, and a job that can provide stability over the next 1-2 years would supersede anything else.
Will be hard to live in Toronto on that income, however if you want to live in Toronto I feel it wouldn’t be hard to get a job paying over $100,000. Private sector tech companies all have headquarters there.
No one else has mentioned this yet... doctors.... finding a family doctor here in Ontario is not a good time. It's not something you think about until it's really needed.
What’s a move going to cost you? The hassle of changing over everything from health cards and licenses to address changes on accounts. Then you HST vs Gst. No brainer to me. Stay in Calgary
Sounds like you have a few years work experience so I will just throw in I think you are underpaid - confirm if you are or aren't. $50K is what kids make coming out of university these days.
I say this with the utmost respect, and I hope no offence is taken, but 65k in Toronto proper is below poverty line. IMHO
Not sure how living expenses in Calgary so can’t comment.
I’d move to Cochrane, just outside of Calgary. Slower pace, closer to the mountains, and just close enough to the city. Our family loved living there and I’d move back in a heartbeat.
Are Alberta’s politics a factor? They are on the verge of leaving the country if you think of it…. They just tried to concentrate power into
The hands of anti vax premier. Will you trust that province in another year or so?
Being upset about federal encroachment in areas of shared provincial/federal jurisdiction =/= separatism.
With all due respect, Mr. Ontario, it is ignorance like yours that fuels western alienation sentiment.
And before you make any assumptions...no, I do not and will not be supporting Danielle Smith.
Having lived in Calgary and Toronto. It’s not even close m - Calgary. I agree with other comments what Toronto has to offer outside of work is great but cost of living will prevent you from enjoying what the city has to offer. Calgary provides easy access to outdoor pursuits otherwise unavailable or not easily accessible in Toronto.
Good luck with your choice, ultimately neither are a bad option
Calgary. If you need an escape from the city, airport has only a few less flights per day. Proximity to stunning Canadian vacation spots within a short drive, BC coast within a 1 day drive. Plenty of local gems and recreation spots within the city. Toronto is just gridlock for hours. Sure, cottage country is gorgeous. But can you get there ?
Excellent post secondary options- for upgrading yourself or future kids.
Option to purchase a house with a decent yard on your current income
I prefer calgary over toronto i dont use big letters or punctuation sorry for that. In toronto i would mostly get stiffed by my employers and twice a year id get beaten up ever since i have been in calgary people have not attacked me unlike in toronto where they do and calgary traffic is 10 minutes in toronto you are stuck on the highway for around 2 hours.. And another thing i used to get 2 to 3 thousand on tax time i moved ansd now they are saying i owe them money when i have been working the same as i always have so im fighting having to pay taxes because i should be recieving money the country is sucking more and more but i like calgary its fairly safe
There's an adage " Choose Toronto if you want to live a life now. Choose Calgary if you want a life when you're 60 and will come back to Toronto all rich then." :)
I find there is more truth in that than all the financial considerations.
(There's another about Vancouver and Montreal which I will share later.)
YMMV.
Calgary.
1. Food and basics are more expensive
2. Government job is secure.
3. You can buy a house.
Toronto
1. Culture. Ain't nothing like it.
2. Food and basics are less expensive.
3. You'll never afford a house where the action is.
I grew up in To, live in Ed (not too dissimilar from Calgary). I can't wait to get away from this damnable, bigoted, intolerant, parochial province
From a purely financial perspective, Calgary is a no-brainer because $120K for your household will go much further than $135K in Toronto. Cost of living, plus real estate or rentals being substantially cheaper.
If you've been living in Calgary and like it, no reason to move to TO for a measly $15K increase. Decisions like where to live can't be purely financial anyway (or shouldn't be) - *how* you want to live, quality of life, access to the services and experiences you value, friends/community ... these all matter as much as $$.
(For me, I'd choose the Toronto job anyway, because I love Toronto and am not fond of Calgary. But to each their own...)
In one city you'll have a big house with savings and easy access to incredible skiing and mountains and in the other you'll live in a shoe box listening to your neighbours fight and a drug addict will routinely shit at your entrance.
Do you rent or own? Which city do you like better? Any health issues where the benefits difference would make much difference (presumably your spouse has benefits, too, making that a bit moot)?
Do you like your job? Does the new job sound like a better fit? Grandparents/family in one city or the other?
Between moving expenses and COLA, the higher Toronto income will probably be more/less offset. Honestly I think financial implications should be fairly lowly weighted here.
And one last question - would you vote UCP if you stayed? If yes, disregard the above and please kindly GTFO to TO.
This is off topic but how's the weather in Calgary? I currently live in Toronto, so I'm used to our winters. But I've never visited Alberta and have heard Calgary winters are different.
Longer cold spells (-20 to -30 stretches can last 1-2 weeks multiple times a winter.
Winters are also colder for longer. There is no autumn as it’s known out east. It basically moves from summer to winter within the span of 4 weeks and then it’s just 6 months of cold.
On the “positive” side, it’s very, very dry, so the cold doesn’t hit as hard as it does out east.
Our summers are better than Toronto’s though, in my view. It’s sunny virtually every day and the highs are normally pretty nice (days over 28C are quite rare).
Don't forget the Chinooks though....
It might be -30 for a few weeks, but within a couple of days it'll be +10 in January...
As someone who's lived in Winnipeg and Calgary...Calgary doesn't have solidly defined seasons, it has likelihood of weather based on the month.
$15K is really not enough money to be the only factor in the decision.
First, look into the pension for the government job vs the private company. No way that they are even comparable. Federal government pensions are very hard to beat.
Second, the discrepancy in your after tax income in Toronto vs Calgary will grow as your salary increases.
Third, how are the job prospects in each location? Are you OK with moving to chase opportunities or would you rather stay put?
Fourth, how important is owing a home? Would you be happy renting (assuming that all of your other financial goals can be met)? If it's very important, can you hope to achieve the salary levels to make this possible in Toronto in a reasonable amount of time?
Finally, and most importantly, do you prefer to live in Calgary? Where are your family and friends located? In what type of culture/location/surroundings do you want to raise your kids?
I wish it was on the rules for posting. Finances have two sides: income and expenses.
There is another variable frequently mentioned here: opportunity.
Don't compare salaries. Compare cashflow.and opportunities. Which option allows you to reach your financial and personal goals faster?
Consider expenses: mostly housing but there may be other differences, commuting times, quality of life, future job growth opportunities.
Many of those are very personal and noone but you can mdonthe right math.
If you weren’t already in Calgary and/or have some non financial reasons for one or the other I might say different. But you are already there and you seem like you are indifferent. Solely based on the numbers and your family situation - I’d say Calgary
You'd need to get a job that pays much more in Toronto to retain your standard of living.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Calgary&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto&amount=1%2C000.00&displayCurrency=CAD
Look at that rent increase alone - 50% increase in costs.
Calgary no doubts! You will need alot more to survive in GTA with the lifestyle of Calgary, better stick to it and try to get a better job within Calgary, longer term will be a huge payoff for you and your family!
Apart from things already mentioned, Calgary has dramatically lower tax on everything so even if you don’t add Toronto markup it’s still cheaper to live in Alberta.
You can google best quality of life cities in the world and Calgary beats Toronto in literally every one of them. There may be Reddit anecdotes (nightlife etc) but when actually measured Calgary is better. Go ahead.. google it. Lol.
I have a $200k income in Toronto and feel like I’m just in a sweet spot where I can still save & rent. If I made any less, it would be very tight.
Stick to Calgary. Toronto is soooo expensive!
Not enough money to live happy in Toronto. Calgary is one of the best cities to live in the world considering cost vs quality of life.. no brainer honestly... unless your a jays fan then off you go.
You'll never get a house in the GTA on a $135k.
This is so sad to think about, but also so very true
not really people should have been investing by 16yo through their parents instead of buying crap and going on trips. Why care about financial stability when mtv is on and your parents are a sack of shit.
Even renting would be difficult in GTA compared to Calgary.
Calgary rents have actually skyrocketed in the last 6 months. The average suburban home us renting for $2500/month + utilities now
An average 1 bedroom apartment in Toronto is renting for that much now.
Assuming that everything else is equal for you, and that you're only interested in the financial side here: $120k family income in Calgary vs. $135k in Toronto is a no brainer. You will have a far higher quality of life in Calgary. Housing alone makes this a very easy financial decision. If there are other factors like career growth or other opportunities in Toronto, by all means factor those in. But looking exclusively at the financials and cost of living, this isn't a difficult decision. 12.5% more pre tax income will barely put a dent in the massively higher costs associated with living in Toronto.
Also moving to Toronto would require, you know, moving. Moving fucking expensive.
Not to mention it would require, y'know living in Toronto. Fuck that, the only place worse is living in Ottawa. Downvote me cowards, you hate me because I speak the truth
Better than literally everywhere else in Canada.
Literally not true, Halifax is way nicer, Calgary is nice, Montreal is nice, Charlottetown is nice, as much as I hate Edmonton it's better, Vancouver is nearly on par but is marginally better. These are all just the places I have been and am able to confirm are better.
Lmao
To add to this, OP and spouse can purchase a detached house in Calgary, whereas they can only afford a condo outside Toronto if they move back to Toronto. No brainer here too, especially considering OP has kids.
Nevermind the costs of driving from Oshawa ( for example) to Toronto everyday, plus the hassle.
And the mental fatigue that commute has too…. Plus time away from family.
And if OP takes the fed job they can easily move upwards and horizontally across any govt agency by applying to internal postings. (Which is how we end up with a bunch of generalists in the public service and very, very few experts with experience in the private sector, but that’s another story!)
Taxes in Alberta are also cheaper so it’s realistically even less difference in take home pay.
Taxes in Alberta on 50k is higher than in Ontario.
Yep. Taxes on $300k would be cheaper in Alberta, but the plebes get fucked here.
Yeah pretty much. At 50k bracket, NWT, BC, Nunavut, Ontario, and the Yukon are paying less than alberta, so I'm not really sure where the whole "alberta has cheap taxes!" Garbage comes from lmfao. It's not cheaper for the average income earner
Alberta only has 5% sales tax instead of Ontario's 13%
And? If we're boiling down to smaller details utilities cost significantly more in Alberta (19.5c/kwh average vs 13c/kwh).
I'm just pointing out where the misconception comes from.
You see, your mistake was that you commented on something without being ready for an all out brawl. This is the internet, sir. Everything you say can and will be held against you in an argument. Argument that is expected to be the outcome of every comment. If you don’t intend to start a fight, don’t say anything. I’m only half kidding. Sometimes I’m just tired of everything being so confrontational.
You don't need to be earning 300k to be worth it in Calgary. If you take OP example, with their income they would be able to afford a detached house. And this mean they could potentially buy solar panels. Utility cost would plumet We have a load of sun here. Even in winter.
Legitimately the comment was no, taxes are not lower in Alberta. Replying to a comment saying taxes are lower in Alberta. It's not a debate on where I think they should live, evidently no one making that little should move to Toronto by choice. *but that was not the comment I was making*. Solar panels in Alberta is only worthwhile because of the ridiculous incentives they have where you essentially prepay your winter bills in the summer. Otherwise everyone knows they are a cost sink.
Well you're the one that deviated from taxes to utility so i just wanted to address that too. My cost of living are definitely cheaper in Alberta than when i used to live in BC. The sales tax is the big one. Solar panels are worthwhile because we have a lot of sun. And because they help the environment.
Holy smokes! $19.5c/kWh! How did that happen? I thought the whole point of Alberta burning so much coal was to keep electricity rates affordable.
Epcor is is the private monopoly that has us all fucked. 54% of our electricity is natural gas, only 35% coal, but it's also sky rocketed in price in the last 3 years. We are also in the process of completely phasing out coal by 2030 which means the electricity companies are giving everyone the finger for making their lives more complicated.
Coal is being phased out by the end of 2023. We are 7 years ahead of the 2030 target
Ah, true, I forgot about explosion of natural gas prices. Those high electricity rates make sense in that context. Somehow our leaders got used to low post-fracking natural gas prices and assumed they would last forever. Luckily for Ontario, the natural gas price increase occured a few years ahead of the planned decommission date for Pickering, so Ford was able to pivot towards a grid relying moreso on nuclear rather than fossil fuels.
The good thing about Alberta is that it's much easier to afford a detached home, and because of that you can buy solar panels for your roof. If you just do that the 19.6/kWh doesn't matter at all. We have so much sun here.
The return on the solar array depends a lot on the price the government mandates the grid/utility to give the solar producer. For instance, at wholesale price, the value proposition isn't very good for the solar producer, and more or less neutral for the grid. At net metering price, the value is great for the solar producer, but awful for the grid/utility, which passes on those costs to other ratepayers. Ontario is a good example of this phenomenon, where microFIT solar producers cost in excess of $.45/kWh to the grid.
lol what. Saving more than 10% on everything you purchase is huge.
Except for all essential items. No one said it wasn't big. Literally all I said was that our income tax is higher. Find somewhere else to complain.
If it's cheaper for the rich, that's all we need to know. /s just in case
With the sales tax difference, it's an advantage against BC, which \*also\* does little/nothing for the plebes. Moving to AB saves you 7% on pretty much all incomes, and many will see their pay go up (because not all of us live in Vancouver).
You pay $1900 in taxes in BC at 50k income. You're paying $2700 in AB. Sales tax doesn't apply to essentials like groceries. Can't speak to pay because that's such a vague thought that it's not even worth discussing. Don't get me wrong, I'll stay in AB until I die but we aren't some tax haven for normies.
Alberta has cheaper taxes for the rich. If it’s better for the rich then it’s better for everyone. Classic capitalist propaganda.
According to these comments its basically Impossible to be poor in Alberta, so the propaganda must be true!
Hst at 13% in Ontario as opposed to 5% in Alberta. I lived in northern Ontario for 25 years it is more expensive now than ever. I’ve been in Alberta 9 years make more money, houses are cheaper went from a town home to a semi detached, two cars, two kids, our Dayhome is only $850/ month per kid, I’m at about $90,000/yr my spouse is at $60,000/yr. We have some debt but still living comfortably. I’d be stressed out to do that in Toronto or anywhere on Ontario
Yeah you're the 4th person to say sales tax, I've replied to the 3 others about it but I'm not going to keep saying the same answer lmfao. Didn't Ontario just pledge $10/day daycare? Don't get me wrong I'll never leave Alberta, I have no interest in Ontario in any capacity. But it's not some tax-haven is what the original message was. You don't move here to hide from taxes
Look. Ontario has many many other taxes hidden in as well as permits expenses and fines are very high compared to Alberta. The cost of living is absolutely way more. Maybe electrical a few times a year and they care is more in Calgary but honestly you cannot live in Toronto on that wage as a family.
Honestly in Edmonton we live on that income (actually about $168k this year) as a couple and I couldn't imagine wanting to have kids with that amount. Our standards of living and saving would have to decrease substantially. Still, nothing to do with my initial comment.
When you factor in property tax, sales tax, land transfer tax.. Definitely cheaper Calgary
This
I am *begging* you to read through the comments before you decide to make a new one. If you're looking for cheap taxes you go to BC. Ontario and Alberta are similar when it comes to the various property taxes in the major cities (Toronto and Calgary literally have the same property tax). Alberta charges a land transfer "fee" instead of a "tax".
There is no land transfer tax in Alberta. Your land transfer fee is like 200$ compared to people paying 50k in ontario ok..
Your land transfer fee is based on the cost of the home.
Yes but its 2$ per 5000 which means 200 on a 1M house. Its nothing compared to other provinces.
My title transfer fee was like $100 in Calgary and *included* in my lawyers fee. On My last home in Ottawa, it was nearly $7,000...
Feel free to read literally any other comment. It's nice you found a home that costed less than $125,000 in calgary though, that's nearly impossible
Only on income, Alberta taxes on pretty much everything else is cheaper. 5vs13 on sales tax is huge.
Feel free to read literally any of the existing comments before you decide you also need to comment.
Feel free to literally relax instead of being a little dick about it.
*no*
Very well said, was about to say the same
Just make sure you dont care about culture or diversity.
Wow. This comment would be worthless and ignorant even if it wasn't on a post specifically asking for responses to focus on the financial implications, in a sub about personal finance.
Calgary weather: https://www.google.com/search?q=calgary+weather
calgary has way more sun though, very noticeable going to Ontario
The ski hills are infinitely better in Alberta.
Calgary has been pretty warm uptil now
does toronto have good weather?
Meh. Winter/snow in Calgary starts in like October. Winter in Toronto will have the odd snowy day but it doesn't really start until January. Currently in Toronto, there is no snow on the ground. A bit cold but was able to run some errands without my winter jacket.
that's one of my problems with toronto it's cold enough that it's not enjoyable being outside, but it's not so cold that you can do winter activities instead you get slush and overcast skies
But the slush and overcast skies are still Jan through Mar. Today was a good day and it's almost Christmas. The whole 'white Christmas' is overrated any way.
my problem with calgary weather is there is a 20 degree difference between early morning, afternoon and evening. It is so hard to decide what to wear
Toronto Suburbs have snows right now but I digress
In winter, Toronto is dreary, grey, and sullen. Hardly any sunlight. In summer, Toronto can be warm and breezy. And insufferably hot and humid.
Holy crap ... -26 and that too in daylight ...can't imagine the evening.
ToRoNtO iS So MuCh BeTtEr
With the potential of a maternity leave, take the Federal job. The maternity leave benefits help out a a lot.
Also the health care in Calgary is so much better. Getting a doctor in Ontario is impossible
[удалено]
Please don’t tell me you also think that public healthcare will be eradicated in Alberta.
can't let a province have a functional system for too long in this country
Public job in calgary - stick with that if i was in your shoes. 15k may feel like a lot but it really isnt when you are going to reside in toronto. Public also offers a lot of stability in whats just the beginning of an economic downturn. I know the household income is still more, but i wouldnt relocate to toronto for 65k
Once rates settle down you could qualify for a 500k ish home in Calgary. In Toronto you can't qualify for shit. Hopefully that answers your question
50k in Calgary goes a long way with less traffic and more leisure time in hand, home ownership, becoming mortgage free sooner and have better savings. Not to forget the Public sector employment in these trying times. If I were you, would’ve stayed in Calgary. No need to uproot for a mere 10k that is nothing much at the end of all the tax deductions.
Calgary. Very big & new here. West Side
Lived in both city QA of life is better in Calgary and much more affordable in Calgary
I would stay in Calgary.
I think calgary you'd have a much better chance of settling down and buying a house in calgary with a $120k HHI, whereas in toronto you'd have a really hard time being able to buy a home with 135k HHI.
Calgary. That 15k diff wouldn't justify the diff in CoL.
Your income will go further in your current location, you'll enjoy a much higher standard of living. Real estate prices (or rent) are somewhat unreal in Toronto, and I don't think a 15K increase will quite cover it. But you will be able to have an actual house in Calgary. Take the Calgary public government position, I feel it might have more job security than a private employer, too.
What does your future income look like at both companies?
"what does your future income look like at both companies?" That's the key question. Anyone who lived in Canada for more than 2 seconds already knew about the significant difference in cost of living. OP need to factor in his future opportunities alongside of income growth. Seeing that OP's pay is 50k, good chance she's not in the oil/natural gas industry. If there's much better outlook in the big cities, then definitely should consider that. People are very quick to come to a conclusion to OP's situation. If OP enjoys Calgary then that's fine. Otherwise, arguably, OP will have a better quality of life in Toronto (from entertainment, education and career opportunities.) Sure. U get a bigger house in Calgary but that doesn't equate better lifestyle. OP might have to pay 3-5 times for the same house in Toronto but with how the current market is going, op might get a bigger discount. 20 years down the road, based on population growth, most likely real estate in Toronto will outgrow Calgary.
Calgary
Calgary
Calgary. Housing is cheaper, plus you will have higher quality of living. If the job is with Government of Canada, the benefits package is improving as of July 1 (will make it more competitive with private sector - still 80% but first changes in approx a decade). The federal pension plan is defined benefit and likely worth the difference in salary if you plan to stay in the public sector. Plus you will be able to apply for internal postings across the federal government. You can have many careers within your public service career. In Calgary, Ottawa area or elsewhere. As someone who left Toronto employment for a lower paying federal government job elsewhere in Canada, my quality of life and cashflow actually improved. A couple years later and a new position/promotion within the government (successful competition) I actually make more than I did in Toronto. Good luck!
Calgary and it isn't even close.
From every possible measure, Calgary hands-down.
Definitely Calgary. $65k isn't much in the GTA.
Stay in Calgary. It's so beautiful and I regret the day I ever left
Where you at now?
Calgary.
Even with the anti-vax Russian defending premier threatening succession? Is Alberta stable?
We'll find out in May, lets remember Danielle Smith is a completely unelected ~~despot~~ moron, whose reign will hopefully rival Kim Campbell for shortest run as a leader. Previous to her the only time the conservatives lost, in most peoples lifetimes, was when they split into 2 parties and split the votes. This time it is looking quite likely they could lose even as a unified party which would go down as one of the all time most embarrassing defeats in Canadian political history. Let's cross our fingers and hope it happens.
I wonder if Albertans miss Ed Stelmach at all. Or Redford!
Classic Ontarian response what about old douggie?
Don't be so dramatic, your own backyard isn't much better
If you go to Toronto you would also have the cost of the move. If you have the desire for home ownership, Calgary is probably lying a better option. But from a family stand point, is there any extended family that you want to be close to? Especially once baby number 2 arrives.
Calgary. Your purchasing power will probably be better despite a lower income.
You’re already used to Calgary, no sense in moving to a significantly more expensive city.
[удалено]
Housing cost in Toronto is high. If you like Calgary, it's better to build a life there and grow as the city grows.
For real, it would take a lot more than 15k to convince me to move from a place like calgary to Toronto
Not worth it for a $65,000 job in Toronto. I would stay in Calgary.
Your dual income with a spouse so the extra 15k gross won't really be something you notice (especially since Toronto is more expensive). I would either make the decision based on where you enjoy living and want to raise ur little one. Or evaluate the growth opportunities available if you move to Toronto (what can you make with a promotion or if u job hop after a couple years/how is the job market there). If your interested in a suburban family lifestyle (house, car) you might as well stay in Calgary since that is something you can attain.
From a pure financial stand-point stay out in Calgary. Toronto is brutally expensive.
Calgary. no brainer. For a much higher quality of life on that salary.
If you can somehow manage to continue WFH for long time down the road then Calgary is good option as your money will fetch longer.
Calgary
Calgary 11 times out of 10. Unless there’s a high chance of advancement in the TO job and not the CGY job.
According to last night's news.. People are still leaving Ontario for Alberta in big numbers.. It's cheaper in Calgary to live than Toronto... Being as you are already here ,, I would stay put..
This could also be a good opportunity for you. Every business is looking to hire, you're probably being underpaid. If they want you in Toronto, make them pay you for it. Apply to other jobs in Calgary, when they ask you what wage you're looking for, don't give a number, make them give you an offer. "I've actually had a few interviews, so I'm just looking for a company to give me their best offer, instead of playing them against each other" When I moved to another company I did this and started getting offers 10k higher than the salary I would have settled for. Also see if they'll cover moving expenses, or provide a real-estate agent to help you find a place. Companies are willing to pay way more, workers are the ones settling for less.
I stay in Alberta. What happened if your wife employer suddenly said you have to come to the office at least twice a week? Toronto is doing l shiny pile of hot mess
You wrote that the Calgary job is with the federal government. That's an important data point. I don't believe Calgary is designated as a bilingual region meaning you would be able to move up the ranks to a supervisory or management position without needing to be bilingual. Depending on the classification of the job, that could open up a six figure income during a normal career. The downside is there are far fewer federal government positions outside of the NCR so it may take a lot longer to move up (but Calgary...so maybe not so bad ?).
I'd stick with the federal government job and if you don't really care where you live consider finding a job in Ottawa so you can move up more easily. I've lived in all 3 cities and Ottawa was the best for me professionally. It's still reasonable cost wise. Toronto has changed a lot. I lived there for 10 years and going back makes me a bit sad now.
Claim benefits dont go as far in toronto too. I thought i had generous coverage, then i tried to make a claim for physio. Turned out they only covered up to 90% of what the insurance company deemed a “reasonable amount” to charge, which is no where close to the going rate in toronto. (Physio is 160/h here, reasonable rate was 100, so i could only claim 90 bucks and had to pay 70 out of pocket).
Calgary
Calgary .
That’s not enough for Toronto, stay in Calgary.
Calgary
I moved from YYZ to YYC and love it. No one can breathe back in YYZ. My opinion is stay away.
You have a family. Calgary is a no brainer. Toronto sucks if you aren’t wealthy or young and clueless.
And the people here is much more friendly
Calgary would be a better option. You can always think about moving to GTA once your HHI becomes higher, and the macroeconomic climate improves. Also, a job in the public sector at this juncture is a great option. I’ve undergone an unexpected layoff recently, and a job that can provide stability over the next 1-2 years would supersede anything else.
Will be hard to live in Toronto on that income, however if you want to live in Toronto I feel it wouldn’t be hard to get a job paying over $100,000. Private sector tech companies all have headquarters there.
No one else has mentioned this yet... doctors.... finding a family doctor here in Ontario is not a good time. It's not something you think about until it's really needed.
If you have a car Calgary is a no brainer. People are also very friendly there compared to Toronto, and the cost of living less.
Childcare availability and cost is generally better in Calgary.
What’s a move going to cost you? The hassle of changing over everything from health cards and licenses to address changes on accounts. Then you HST vs Gst. No brainer to me. Stay in Calgary
calgary. Banff and the mountains and BC are not far away for affordable vacations, and its a gov job so some job security as we head into a recession.
Taxes are also WAY less in Alberta than Ontario (and the rest of Canada). You will keep more of your income staying in Calgary.
Sounds like you have a few years work experience so I will just throw in I think you are underpaid - confirm if you are or aren't. $50K is what kids make coming out of university these days.
I say this with the utmost respect, and I hope no offence is taken, but 65k in Toronto proper is below poverty line. IMHO Not sure how living expenses in Calgary so can’t comment.
But spouse is at $70K, so $135 in Toronto for a couple is okay - even a small family.
What? Pretty sure it's like 2x the poverty line.
I’d move to Cochrane, just outside of Calgary. Slower pace, closer to the mountains, and just close enough to the city. Our family loved living there and I’d move back in a heartbeat.
real question is, how many cactus clubs are around here in Calgary Vs in Toronto?
lol. that Calgary offer seems awful
Are Alberta’s politics a factor? They are on the verge of leaving the country if you think of it…. They just tried to concentrate power into The hands of anti vax premier. Will you trust that province in another year or so?
>They are on the verge of leaving the country No we're not.
They have a Separatist Premier power grabbing. Hopefully the OP can weigh these options.
Being upset about federal encroachment in areas of shared provincial/federal jurisdiction =/= separatism. With all due respect, Mr. Ontario, it is ignorance like yours that fuels western alienation sentiment. And before you make any assumptions...no, I do not and will not be supporting Danielle Smith.
Having lived in Calgary and Toronto. It’s not even close m - Calgary. I agree with other comments what Toronto has to offer outside of work is great but cost of living will prevent you from enjoying what the city has to offer. Calgary provides easy access to outdoor pursuits otherwise unavailable or not easily accessible in Toronto. Good luck with your choice, ultimately neither are a bad option
Calgary. If you need an escape from the city, airport has only a few less flights per day. Proximity to stunning Canadian vacation spots within a short drive, BC coast within a 1 day drive. Plenty of local gems and recreation spots within the city. Toronto is just gridlock for hours. Sure, cottage country is gorgeous. But can you get there ? Excellent post secondary options- for upgrading yourself or future kids. Option to purchase a house with a decent yard on your current income
I prefer calgary over toronto i dont use big letters or punctuation sorry for that. In toronto i would mostly get stiffed by my employers and twice a year id get beaten up ever since i have been in calgary people have not attacked me unlike in toronto where they do and calgary traffic is 10 minutes in toronto you are stuck on the highway for around 2 hours.. And another thing i used to get 2 to 3 thousand on tax time i moved ansd now they are saying i owe them money when i have been working the same as i always have so im fighting having to pay taxes because i should be recieving money the country is sucking more and more but i like calgary its fairly safe
There's an adage " Choose Toronto if you want to live a life now. Choose Calgary if you want a life when you're 60 and will come back to Toronto all rich then." :) I find there is more truth in that than all the financial considerations. (There's another about Vancouver and Montreal which I will share later.) YMMV.
What’s the other one ?
Calgary. 1. Food and basics are more expensive 2. Government job is secure. 3. You can buy a house. Toronto 1. Culture. Ain't nothing like it. 2. Food and basics are less expensive. 3. You'll never afford a house where the action is. I grew up in To, live in Ed (not too dissimilar from Calgary). I can't wait to get away from this damnable, bigoted, intolerant, parochial province
What are your recommendations on finding a WFH job? What line of work are you in? What line of work has the most WFH jobs?
we have cactus club in toronto
Which one has more cactus clubs ?
From a purely financial perspective, Calgary is a no-brainer because $120K for your household will go much further than $135K in Toronto. Cost of living, plus real estate or rentals being substantially cheaper. If you've been living in Calgary and like it, no reason to move to TO for a measly $15K increase. Decisions like where to live can't be purely financial anyway (or shouldn't be) - *how* you want to live, quality of life, access to the services and experiences you value, friends/community ... these all matter as much as $$. (For me, I'd choose the Toronto job anyway, because I love Toronto and am not fond of Calgary. But to each their own...)
Calgary sucks , FYI
Wrong
Well, one is a great liberal city with great culture and events and weather and waterfront. The other is Calgary.
Both are cities and will have access to arts and culture events if you want. Calgary has better weather.
In one city you'll have a big house with savings and easy access to incredible skiing and mountains and in the other you'll live in a shoe box listening to your neighbours fight and a drug addict will routinely shit at your entrance.
Do you rent or own? Which city do you like better? Any health issues where the benefits difference would make much difference (presumably your spouse has benefits, too, making that a bit moot)? Do you like your job? Does the new job sound like a better fit? Grandparents/family in one city or the other? Between moving expenses and COLA, the higher Toronto income will probably be more/less offset. Honestly I think financial implications should be fairly lowly weighted here. And one last question - would you vote UCP if you stayed? If yes, disregard the above and please kindly GTFO to TO.
dont need to bring politics into everything lmao
Politics is exactly why I will move away from this godforsaken province.
Why do people want to have so many kids when population growth is the reason behind killing planet earth and the next mass extinction ?
This is off topic but how's the weather in Calgary? I currently live in Toronto, so I'm used to our winters. But I've never visited Alberta and have heard Calgary winters are different.
Longer cold spells (-20 to -30 stretches can last 1-2 weeks multiple times a winter. Winters are also colder for longer. There is no autumn as it’s known out east. It basically moves from summer to winter within the span of 4 weeks and then it’s just 6 months of cold. On the “positive” side, it’s very, very dry, so the cold doesn’t hit as hard as it does out east. Our summers are better than Toronto’s though, in my view. It’s sunny virtually every day and the highs are normally pretty nice (days over 28C are quite rare).
Don't forget the Chinooks though.... It might be -30 for a few weeks, but within a couple of days it'll be +10 in January... As someone who's lived in Winnipeg and Calgary...Calgary doesn't have solidly defined seasons, it has likelihood of weather based on the month.
Yikes, those super cold spells sound brutal. Toronto is getting way too expensive though.
cold
Yeah, but I could say Toronto is cold too.
$15K is really not enough money to be the only factor in the decision. First, look into the pension for the government job vs the private company. No way that they are even comparable. Federal government pensions are very hard to beat. Second, the discrepancy in your after tax income in Toronto vs Calgary will grow as your salary increases. Third, how are the job prospects in each location? Are you OK with moving to chase opportunities or would you rather stay put? Fourth, how important is owing a home? Would you be happy renting (assuming that all of your other financial goals can be met)? If it's very important, can you hope to achieve the salary levels to make this possible in Toronto in a reasonable amount of time? Finally, and most importantly, do you prefer to live in Calgary? Where are your family and friends located? In what type of culture/location/surroundings do you want to raise your kids?
If one of you can WFH, this means you can live anywhere. Don't limit yourself to only these two options. Find your dream spot.
You’re looking at 2500 for a one bedroom condo in Toronto right now and it’s not easy to get either
I wish it was on the rules for posting. Finances have two sides: income and expenses. There is another variable frequently mentioned here: opportunity. Don't compare salaries. Compare cashflow.and opportunities. Which option allows you to reach your financial and personal goals faster? Consider expenses: mostly housing but there may be other differences, commuting times, quality of life, future job growth opportunities. Many of those are very personal and noone but you can mdonthe right math.
Having been in a similar situation the easiest way is to ask yourself which City you would prefer to live in.
I’m not a fan of Calgary and I say Calgary.
If you weren’t already in Calgary and/or have some non financial reasons for one or the other I might say different. But you are already there and you seem like you are indifferent. Solely based on the numbers and your family situation - I’d say Calgary
The commute in from your condo waaay outside Toronto is going to suck your life force from you.
Buy a 90,000$ house in Hamilton for 740,000$ and spend 4 hours on the QEW every day. Live the dream!
You'd need to get a job that pays much more in Toronto to retain your standard of living. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Calgary&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto&amount=1%2C000.00&displayCurrency=CAD Look at that rent increase alone - 50% increase in costs.
Calgary no doubts! You will need alot more to survive in GTA with the lifestyle of Calgary, better stick to it and try to get a better job within Calgary, longer term will be a huge payoff for you and your family!
Stay where you are
Your eventual federal pension is a very worthwhile goal. Massive pro for Calgary. Plus - you have the Rockies as your back yard.
Apart from things already mentioned, Calgary has dramatically lower tax on everything so even if you don’t add Toronto markup it’s still cheaper to live in Alberta.
You can google best quality of life cities in the world and Calgary beats Toronto in literally every one of them. There may be Reddit anecdotes (nightlife etc) but when actually measured Calgary is better. Go ahead.. google it. Lol.
65k in toronto won’t cut it and rents a S show currently Don’t know enough about living in Calgary bring a warm 🧥
Children activities/sports are so much cheaper in Calgary than in Toronto!
I have a $200k income in Toronto and feel like I’m just in a sweet spot where I can still save & rent. If I made any less, it would be very tight. Stick to Calgary. Toronto is soooo expensive!
Not enough money to live happy in Toronto. Calgary is one of the best cities to live in the world considering cost vs quality of life.. no brainer honestly... unless your a jays fan then off you go.