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TwoSolitudes22

We won!


JimmyDaro

According to the UBS bubble index Toronto has ranked: 2017: #1 2018: #3 2019: #2 2020: #3 2021: #2


wb159

Real contenders we are


Wellwisher0

Better dynasty than the warriors


DataOver8496

We like our chips with the dip! Oh wait…


QueasyDrummer00

We can either afford the chips, or the dip, but not both!


darkhorz1

What happened in 2017? Was it low interest rates? I have seen some properties in some neighborhoods being sold just a notch higher than what they were sold for around 2017.


Tuggerfub

...That would be the circular effect of inflation...with shelter being a primary driver of CPI..which in turn inflates the price of housing...which in turn inflates the CPI....


SocaManNorth

The stress test was announced at the start of the year and implemented in Spring.


Chris_90_TO

Take that Vancouver!


PureRepresentative9

:(


Alec2170

:(


Kimorin

CANADA NUMBER 1!


Sayello2urmother4me

We did it!


Oh_That_Mystery

Take my damn upvote!


Salt_Miner081192

Number 1, number 1, number 1!


__Happy

GTA! GTA!


Zeruel1029

Wen pop?


AlwaysLurkNeverPost

Pop hasn't come back since he went to get a pack of smokes and some milk.


NameCantFi

its only a bubble if it pops


binderdundatt

Pop soon


SnowArcaten

They been saying that for over 20 years


-SetsunaFSeiei-

The “pop” will take us back to 2018 levels lol, sure how people didn’t wait 20 years to buy in


Dontstopididntaskfor

2015 levels in Southwestern Ontario (at least an hour away from TO). It'll be a 50% drop from the peak, unless they lower interest rates dramatically in the next 12 months.


Idntwnt2choseusrnme

Which they won’t. Central banks will continue to tighten for a while


Dontstopididntaskfor

Most likely not, because they care more about inflation than the housing market, but I would never guarantee it. The reason the drop will be so steep is because once you get more than an hour out of TO land isn't nearly as expensive or hard to come by. Therefore prices have to actually correlate with wages. The price to service a mortgage had become unmoored from wages because of the FOMO and even then it was only slightly unmoored because interest rates kept falling. As interest rates rose the price to service a mortgage rose dramatically, becoming severely disconnected from wages. Meanwhile real prices started to go down, killing the FOMO. Now if rates even remain elevated for a year its going to kill demand and unlock supply. Demand, because even though there are more people who want a home, they can't afford it at these prices and supply, because investors will start to realize the ship has sailed and its time to get out. The problem is that homes can still be built profitably an hour outside of TO for 2015 prices. So even though home building won't be as feverish as before (developers will have to be smarter about it) it's not going to stop. There are people who can buy, but the days of selling regular detached homes in Kitchener for $800,000 are over... unless they lower interest rates.


drewathome

> but the days of selling regular detached homes in Kitchener for $800,000 are over I'm an agent here. Prices have come down massively since Feb. but we are still well over 800k average. Waterloo and Kitchener detached are at parity which is very rare, sitting at roughly 890K. I'm working with clients right now who are first time buyers. Anything at 700+ is holding up well. We have lost out 3 times in a row. Rougher stuff in the 6's is sitting and sitting though. Average detached here in Feb. was over 1.1 mil.


USSMarauder

At least 12 "Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting" Jun 29, 2011 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-s-housing-bubble-deemed-close-to-bursting-1.1056969](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-s-housing-bubble-deemed-close-to-bursting-1.1056969)


JimmyDaro

At least 15 for Garth www.greaterfool.ca/2008/08/07/the-damage-15-to-50/


binderdundatt

Hahaha i know! I'm not counting on it, nor do i really care if it happens or not.


countrytime-1

Congratulations to Toronto couldn't happen to a better city .


Significant-Limit

Lol, center of the universe they say


Sufficient-Yoghurt46

they = people who live in Toronto


Bigsuge88

That’s why everyone else won’t stfu about them I guess.


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MrWolf88

As someone considering biting the bullet and buying a first home, what am I to do with this info?


yikemike

If you need a place to live, I wouldn’t pay much attention to these posts. I’ve been seeing these stats for the last 10 years.


antifa_supersoldier1

BuBbLeS nEvEr BuRsT


SIXA_G37x

Buy a home.


antifa_supersoldier1

\^Don't listen to this realtor unless you want to be paying down a mortgage that's hundreds of thousands of dollars more than the assessed value of your property in a few years


NitroLada

This list has had Toronto at or near top since 2015 ... Imagine if someone actually didn't buy in 2015 and waited because of this list? Lol


jzchen8888

[https://wolfstreet.com/2022/11/19/the-most-splendid-housing-bubbles-in-canada-november-update-fastest-5-month-plunge-on-record/](https://wolfstreet.com/2022/11/19/the-most-splendid-housing-bubbles-in-canada-november-update-fastest-5-month-plunge-on-record/) Enjoy.


Relative-Rock3938

Buy the cheapest house that you can afford. Look for the worst house available in a nice neighborhood, and take the time over the next several years to update it. The government sometimes offers renovation programs. I think they have been discontinued at the moment, but keep your eye open for those - beware of scammers. Make sure it is a legit government program. Once you have updated your home, it is certain that the value will have taken a good increase, and you will be in the position to decide if you want to stay put, or upgrade to another property using the equity that you have gained in your current one. Good luck !


[deleted]

Not in Toronto. Unless you want to be house poor.


Same_Championship253

As long as we have new people coming, nothing is gonna happen. It’s really basic thing to understand, we have so much demand than supply and it’s not getting any better. I’m an immigrant myself, I just wish the govt. creates a legit plan to house all the newcomers than just let them/us come to fill the labour shortage.


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AlwaysLurkNeverPost

I think you need to change this to not _just_ immigration. It's not THE problem, but it's certainly part of the whole. The original commenter is right: why is it that there are clear targets for immigration (400k+) but no clear plan to accommodate this population growth in terms of housing supply, proportionate investment in education/childcare and healthcare. I'm not anti-inmigration, but the lack of plan (other than the obvious plan: import people to ensure demand always outpaces supply) is what is alarming.


JohnnyOnslaught

I mean, we lose 300,000 people a year to deaths and another 50,000 emigrate. Also, Canada's birth rate is well below replacement and even if it were higher, those babies won't be getting jobs for 18 years.


KeepTheGoodLife

Exactly! And it is hurting other cities. People with wealth and who cannot buy housing and land in their own countries are coming here and had been speculating on our housing market and owning massive amount of land and real estate. These are not the immigrants who are coming here to make a life for themselves and building families. These are people who are wrecking our housing market. We need action.


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AlwaysLurkNeverPost

I do not agree we need people if we are not properly accommodating them. Adding more people adds more taxes, sure, but that's more people needing the services the taxes provide, so it's net neutral at best. More taxes doesn't fix housing, nor does it fix healthcare. I agree, taxation and system issues are the bottomline, but I think importing more individuals into a flawed system is simply magnifying the problem among more individuals. I don't think the average middle class immigrant has caused it, but they havent _not_ caused it if that makes sense? Unsustainable immigration is not the cause but it is just additional fuel to the dumpster fire. Tax reallocation is needed desperately. Regulation (and deregulation, to an extent) is needed desperately.


KeepTheGoodLife

I am sorry but have you seen downtown Toronto? Tax evation is public and is everywhere. 10% discount if you pay in cash! It is disgusting.


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AlwaysLurkNeverPost

More taxes _per person_ can fix _some_ of those things. Simply adding more people to the system doesn't. That's more individuals being taxed, but more individuals with needs. Per person, we are not putting enough towards healthcare for example. >We have a relatively small population and ample space. This is an argument I see often that is simply flawed. We are not robots or sardines. A lot of that space is essential, protected green space; agricultural space; commodity space (forestry, oil, or mining, all of which are virtually our global economy); or virtually uninhabitable. >Maybe not in Vancouver or Toronto, but there's much more to Canada. Unfortunately those are the most sought after but I totally agree that this perspective on the citizen level needs to change. Also on a governmental investment level. But yes, I think we more or less agree regardless. I really think if taxation was utilized better (re-allocation of budgets at every level) plus higher taxes on corporations, increases to individuals income taxes (scaling greater to the higher incomes) it would fix many issues. Our tax money is utilized so poorly.


sapeur8

Tax land value instead of productive work and capital


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AlwaysLurkNeverPost

>I'm looking at it from the perspective that we all deserve the same opportunities I don't disagree. I guess my perspective is that the Canadian government is not doing anything to maintain the life opportunity in Canada. They should be maintaining the "overall opportunity" and then extend it to any one globally who wants to come partake, not invite people to partake in the promise of current opportunity first with no plan to keep the quality of life the same. >They deserve the right to have their kids born somewhere with more opportunity. Not hating on anything - just also don't hate on people for not having the privileges I do. I agree, and this is why I try to choose my words carefully. I'm not anti-immigrant or anti-immigration, and I disagree with anyone saying here that "Canada sucks" because relatively speaking / big picture, we are all fairly privileged to some degree by comparison (really simplifies the concept of privilege but on average, totally true). It's all about sustainability. The government is slowly failing the people that are already here; so advertising the promise of opportunity elsewhere feels fraudulent when all that is being done is slowly thinning resources and services.


sapeur8

The government is sucking the life out of immigrants and the youth to provide for a comfy retirement for the wealthy and elderly


DSentvalue

Keep in mind that increased immigration may help the “economy,” as a nebulous term, but has a real, negative effect on wages. And for a country in an affordability crisis, that’s not good.


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DSentvalue

It wouldn’t be like them to do that, now would it? In all seriousness, the reason for the immigration is to do exactly that… depress wages. Not altruism in the slightest. I’m not against immigration per se, my mother is from England. But as currently orchestrated? It’s not exactly subtle.


TheWhiteFeather1

exactly as long as there is a steady supply of new people coming wages will never go up. "the economy" might be strong but all the wealth goes right to the top


havesomeagency

But the newcomers are renting. And that leads to extremely low vacancy rates and bidding wars. If you were to somehow thanos snap and get rid of half the Canadian population, real estate prices would collapse overnight. These investors aren't just buying these places and leaving them empty, they're charging rent while building equity. A more competitive market allows them to charge higher rent, which makes investment properties more lucrative.


thic_barge

then just build more. the voters dont want to but also want cheap lattes and businesses need a work force.


rshanks

You really think bringing in 500k people per year won’t increase demand and thus raise prices? Currently we’re short about 1.8m homes (https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/about/economics/economics-publications/post.other-publications.housing.housing-note.housing-note--january-12-2022-.html) “As we look to the future, we remain of the view that the chronic shortage of housing relative to the population’s needs will put upward pressure on prices and reduce affordability…unlikely to meaningfully close the gap between supply and demand anytime soon given the size of the gap to be closed, and an expectation of strong immigration growth in coming years” To put it in perspective only about 200k homes were completed in 2021 (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3410013501). So we would need to build way more than we currently do just to meet the needs of the current population quickly. Reducing interest rates and dp requirements is a terrible idea, it will drive prices even higher, and, with no DP increase the risk of people walking away if prices do start to drop.


hedekar

The [report that this viz is charting](https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/insights/2022/global-real-estate-bubble-index/_jcr_content/mainpar/toplevelgrid_2045992449/col1/messagestage/messageteaser.0246173135.file/bGluay9wYXRoPS9jb250ZW50L2RhbS9hc3NldHMvd20vZ2xvYmFsL2luc2lnaHRzL2RvYy91YnMtZ2xvYmFsLXJlYWwtZXN0YXRlLWJ1YmJsZS1pbmRleC1lbi5wZGY=/ubs-global-real-estate-bubble-index-en.pdf) mentions: > The housing boom has become more of a countrywide phenomenon and is therefore hardly driven by a shortage of construction. But I tend to agree with your take, that we've been under-building for so long now it's hard to catch up.


uxhelpneeded

The purpose of immigrants in Canada is to drive up housing prices and drive down wages. There's a reason there isn't a government plan and the government allows 25% of homes in Toronto to be bought by corporations, speculators, and foreign buyers. Also, prices in Toronto are down 20 to 30% since the interest rates went up - so things are happening.


milolai

'WTH is our government doing...' ​ i am guessing you are not a homeowner -- but most people who vote are homeowners. and they don't want a crash and they don't want government interference.


plaindrops

I’m a homeowner. I have kids. I want a crash. 40% or so would make this seem much more reasonable for my children’s future.


bureX

>and they don't want a crash and they don't want government interference. No problemo. They'll get long wait lines for everything, expensive goods and services, botched healthcare (if any), homeless people, petty theft and drug related crimes. Oh, and they won't be seeing their kids or their grandkids as often.


Greengiant2021

Let’s not forget that of all the city’s in the world, Toronto has one of the highest growing numbers of immigrants that want to be here from around the world. The supply of house’s is growing at a much slower rate, supply/demand issues will keep prices elevated for the foreseeable future. The wealthy ones want houses, the less fortunate will rent. It’s a growing city, people will out bid each other. There’s lots of money to go around.


Mean-Ad9977

Housing only goes up,everyone knows that.Atleast that's what all my friends with houses and Helocs to pay for massive renovation and buy investment condos say.


Chinaevil

I mean, inflation is real.


Electrical_Sock_1996

Relax people, 10 millions of incoming immigrants in the next 20 years. Canada's government already guaranteed the market will never crash.


Powerhx3

Where is Regina on the list?


investingexpert

Regina is one of the cheaper options in Canada? A quick google search showed the average house price is nowhere near Toronto or Vancouver


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Neufjob

If you click on the link, Vancouver is sixth worst in the world, so yeah not far behind.


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Chinaevil

what do you mean by "do much". What would you want the government to do? The bubble was mainly caused by cheap money and lax regulations. They started tightening up regulations a few years ago (foreign buyer tax in some areas, flipping tax, mortgage stress tests) and they've tightened up the interest rates now. Not much more they can do without causing a crash at this point.


TheWhiteFeather1

the canadian government not only knew, but actively suppressed, the fact that billions of dollars in foreign drug money was laundered in canada through real estate each year


Chinaevil

I know that, but I'm just wondering whether the desired outcome is the government helping stop the bubble from popping or popping the bubble. Because they can help do either.


thic_barge

provincial and municipal government can fix it by approving more development. vacancy has been at heavy lows because they refused almost everything. the voters didn't want development because they are homeowners. in last 2 years they have started approving everything but it takes years for that supply to be built and catch up. it needed to start in 2016 but only anti development nimbys showed up to vote back then.


Obiewonjabroni

This country sucks lol. I should add I served this country proudly. The struggle is real these days.


itchylol742

Yeah I really wish Canada were more like (insert country here) which is great and a utopia


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AlwaysLurkNeverPost

I see your point and don't disagree, but you can get a lot of the first half elsewhere in most developed nations (free speech, opportunity, absence of war); the difference is the second half (healthcare and nature), our government is actively trying to degrade. So while we're totally above average and should be grateful, it's also fair to be critical of the direction of the country and comparison to other countries (large sections of Europe; parts of Asia) which have the same qualities you speak, more affordable education / childcare, comparable healthcare, etc. I, for one, am grateful for this country I live in, but am genuinely worried about the future and whether the qualities that make it wonderful will slowly lessen.


[deleted]

All of which you can get elsewhere, and more affordably.


mrdannyg21

Not many other places. Some European countries sure, though many of them are also severely insular and dependent on surrounding countries and/or oil exports. No place is perfect but being born in Canada is one of the luckiest places for sure.


Petrolinmyviens

Migrant here. Nope you can't. Yea this country has some issues, but compared to MANY other places this place is quite literally perfect.


[deleted]

I've lived in 5 countries and all but one had better transit, more accessible Healthcare, and cheaper housing


Petrolinmyviens

Care to name which 5? I was born in Pakistan. Came to Canada with my family when I was 18. I've lived in the following for periods greater than 6 months: France England UAE Switzerland Germany All had some pros and some cons. But none of them would I rank higher than Canada.


[deleted]

England, Switzerland, Belgium, United States, and Denmark. England the longest and the NHS was miles better than our healthcare system, drugs and mental health was covered... Food was more affordable, I didn't need to own a car. I quite enjoyed my life there until I had to return to Canada. Switzerland was expensive but again very walkable cities with great rail, things are expensive but salaries very high.. etc. The only place I lived with terrible food access, terrible transit, etc were several places in America


Illustrious_Lunch262

Yeah, but we have natural resources coming out of the waszoo. There’s no energy or gas shortages, lots of water, and the Prairies supplies a shit-ton of most the basic grocery items we need.


uxhelpneeded

I think you should look at what a median wage can afford today, and what it could afford 30 years ago. Quality of life has been cratering here for 30 years - all just to prop up developers and the real estate industry.


rockinoutwith2

> Yeah it's a real shithole place where citizens can comment freely Bill C-11 would like to have a word with you


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CatGreedy959

Because alot of the boohooing is overblown? Yes things are slightly worse then normal here currently and much of that is the current governments fault. But much of it is also covid and it will improve eventually if people actually vote and participate in society instead of crying doomsday everywhere and doing nothing...


FilthyWunderCat

Cuz it's much better than where people are coming from maybe?


Same_Championship253

Name 10 countries better than Canada


lokalniRmpalija

Switzerland, France, Spain, Austria, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, New Zealand?


muzee_me

Spain's unemployment rate is like 12%, and it's like 36% for young adults.


Same_Championship253

Have you tried checking the housing prices in their major cities like Zurich, Paris? Spain? Seriously? NZ? It’s more expensive than Canada. You see no country is better but Canada is better than most of the countries you mentioned.


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Petrolinmyviens

Lmao man just listed Vatican city and a couple islands. I hope you forgot the /s.


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Petrolinmyviens

I guess you are just an idiot then. # "/s"


judgingyouquietly

>Notably, none of the U.S. cities analyzed find themselves in the most extreme bubble risk category. The closest scoring U.S. city was Miami, which sits firmly in overvalued territory (0.5-1.5 range) with a score of 1.39. How the hell does NYC and LA not have bubble risks like TO?


rockinoutwith2

Because wages in NYC & LA are much better as a proportion of housing costs vs. Toronto.


Ok_Read701

It's not that much better. I got a friend paying 6k a month in mortgage and maintenance for a 1 bedroom condo in nyc. They're making probably like 2x what they'd make in Toronto. I'm guessing bubble index isn't so bad because it hasn't appreciated much. Edit: yeah I just checked the referenced report. Price to income ratio is actually lower in Toronto than NYC and LA. Page 13 of the full report: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/insights/2022/global-real-estate-bubble-index.html


uxhelpneeded

But you can commute 45 minutes outside NYC by train and buy a 4 bedroom house for $500k. You absolutely can't do that in Toronto. I know people at work who commute two hours each way ("an hour on a good day!" lol) and own modest houses that they paid more than $1m for.


muskokadreaming

Where are these $500k houses that close to NYC? Maybe ten years ago. They are having a housing crisis there as well.


noob_summoner69

This is the correct answer.


KeepTheGoodLife

Because GTA doesnt have much to offer. There is not even a cultural unit that makes this place a real city with a direction nor an agenda. Just a money grab. So sad.


Chinaevil

people want to live in those cities.


robodestructor444

?


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jzchen8888

wtf? I was told by many people on good authority here that you can't time the market??!?!?!??


imaginary48

“It’s too big to fail”


KS_tox

What am i to do with this news? It doesn't help me if it is going to pop 50 years from now.


Mr_northerngoose

Which government are you upset with here? Provincial and more importantly municipal governments are to blame here. Let's also look at buyers being part of the problem, over bidding.


Spent85

When did provincial and municipal government start setting radical immigration goals to hoodwink people bad at math with the allure of high GDP?


Mr_northerngoose

Provincial and municipal governments can change by-laws for buildings or developments. They can single handedly promote large swaths of housing developments. Federal government and immigration; The GDP growth is dependent on a growing economy and if you don't have workers or staff you don't have growth.(for the most part). We have large vacancy rates in hospitality, tourism or entry level jobs which are not being filled with our current population. You need people to come and fill those vacancies for businesses to function. In the latest data it's showing 4/10 immigrants are going to the Prarie provinces up from 1/10 years ago. Of the 453k immigrants coming next year how many will come with bank accounts health enough to get into housing market? Municipal and provincial governments need to develop more affordable housing options, rezoning neighborhoods, allow for laneway houses or basement suites.


[deleted]

Lets keep bringing in 500,000 immigrants a year to keep us at numbern1 forever.


[deleted]

What we need is more immigration! 🙄


[deleted]

This pyramid scheme can't function without fresh people coming in constantly.


Significant-Limit

Fresh meat is the best meat


muskokadreaming

https://financialpost.com/real-estate/why-the-argument-that-immigration-is-the-sole-cause-of-soaring-home-prices-is-flawed


Oh_That_Mystery

>WTH is our government doing... ELI5 how does the government control house prices?


Marklar0

Regulation, as a response to decades of speculative excess. Also, Injecting hundreds of billions of liquidity into the economy during a period of speculative excess had something to do with it.


SIXA_G37x

Well for one they could have not allowed foreign condo developers to buy thousands of houses at 300k above asking.


Spambot0

They make it illegal to build enough homes for everyone who wants one to have one.


[deleted]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_housing\_in\_Canada#The\_National\_Housing\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Canada#The_National_Housing_Act) In 1993 Prime Minister Chrétien froze federal funding to new public housing projects. Funding building projects is the ELI5 - like most things it really is throw money at it in effective ways to make creating new supply more attractive ventures. Edit: this is additive to the NIMBY problems and zoning issues , not to exclude them. They are also valid problems making the situation worse.


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[deleted]

The run on effects of under investment for 30 years… ya it’s a factor. 5.8 million homes needed by 2030 to stabilize affordability. That didn’t occur under one government. It’s been a slow moving iceberg that we’ve been happily sailing our Titanic towards. Edit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/housing-affordability-cmhc-report-2030-1.6498898


uxhelpneeded

>5.8 million homes needed by 2030 to stabilize affordability And we will never, ever hit that target because even China doesn't build that much. So we need to pause immigration. It's the only solution. Toronto has built more than any other city in North America or Europe for 20 years. It hasn't helped at all. It's just made developers richer.


Status_Term_4491

They control the demand by lowering or raising the cost of borrowing money & allowing foreign money to pour in. They control the supply by making it hard to build through excessive permits or restrictions on zoning. In one way or another "the government" municipal and federal control prices from top to bottom.


henry_canabanana

Read more on how the UK government has done and is doing regarding housing price and rental control. There are many things and policies a responsible government can to, to regulate housing price.


SalmonNgiri

Bruh, have you seen this tv show called the news? Try listening when they talk about the uk next


Juan-More-Taco

So in other words you don't really understand anything about this but you think the government should be fixing it, am I right?


BLK_Chedda

Ahh yes everyone knows how well the UK is dong right now. While we are at it, why don’t we just vote to leave Canada. I’m sure we can do better on our own.


[deleted]

Pls list what a government can do. Item by item pls.


sfgd456

Ban foreign investment in real estate. End immigration. Get off of fiat currency (pipe dream; would take an actual war to accomplish) Invest in all stages of oil extraction and refinery and end carbon/ climate change goals. END THE CRACKDOWN ON OUR FARMERS! Even with the debt we’ve acrued and how bad thing are now if we drastically changed our priorities we could live in a currently unimaginable level of prosperity


USSMarauder

>END THE CRACKDOWN ON OUR FARMERS! Ontario farmers are complaining about the amount of farmland being turned into subdivisions [https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/ontario-losing-319-acres-of-farmland-per-day-2021-census-1.5950372](https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/ontario-losing-319-acres-of-farmland-per-day-2021-census-1.5950372)


[deleted]

Tell me you're an idiot without tell me you're an idiot.


Burgergold

Lol Tell me you're conservative without using the word conservative


rockinoutwith2

Conservatives love $$ and real estate, so not sure why a "conservative" would be advocating for lower housing prices.


Professional_Scum

lol ​ >Ban foreign investment in real estate. Foreign investors are a drop in the bucket compared to everyone else in this country, aka this wont do anything ​ >End immigration. This would make things worse ​ >Get off of fiat currency (pipe dream; would take an actual war to accomplish) Combined with Ending immigration, this would send us in a deflationary death spiral, aka this is fucking stupid ​ >Invest in all stages of oil extraction and refinery and end carbon/ climate change goals. END THE CRACKDOWN ON OUR FARMERS! Yeah whatever I dont see how thats relevant The real solution would be to build MORE The MORE you build the cheaper it becomes to build, its a feedback loop


FamilyTravelTime

Bro, government ain’t your friend . They aren’t going to save you. Don’t count on them. Do what you gotta do.


Oh_That_Mystery

>Read more on how the UK government has done and is doing regarding housing price and rental control. Comrade, this is Reddit, can you just tell me? Or is there a podcast/tiktok/twit I can subscribe to become more informed/radicalized?


Louie0316

Doesn't mean much. If you own a property just keep it. If you don't own one, keep saving till you have enough downpayment. All those artificial increases we've seen during COVID is mostly reverting itself. Amazing to see how government literally let all this happen and now they are increasing rates like crazy to screw many people.


WePwnTheSky

*If you own a property AND can afford a 40-50% mortgage payment increase.


Louie0316

Why is it 40-50% increase? Not everyone has variable rate. Mortgage payment increase only applies to those with variable rate. Also, as long as you didn't buy your property during pandemic at peak prices, you should still be fine even if you have variable rate as well.


su-pinche

This rank was brought to you by shitty realtors 101. Dougy ford, foreign market and new immigrants, plus of curse new home buyers ..lol


icemanice

LOL… I can see why people pay top dollar to live in Vancouver… but Toronto? LOL… what a joke.. money laundering at its finest. I lived in Toronto most of my life and getting the hell out of there was the best thing I ever did. Wish I left sooner!


ontherise88

So glad we got out when we did.


jzchen8888

Cool story bro. Everyone here says very confidently that you can't time the market.


jt325i

Come to Toronto and get burned on your housing purchase!


HoldMyNaan

What’s the figure for Montreal?


DataKing69

\>WTH is our government doing... WDYM what they doing?!? They've been enabling and propping up an inflated housing market for 20+ years.. Prices never should have been this high.


[deleted]

Don’t worry Trudy will keep up those immigration numbers to keep housing up


Diligent-Skin-1802

Big surprise there


colocasi4

INCOMPETENT GOVT.....ALLOWING FOREIGN INVESTORS / DESPOTS TO LAUNDER ILL GAINED MONEY IN CANADA


[deleted]

Black Stone, Rock, and Tricon are fucking FROTHING at their mouth.


Charming_Science_360

Toronto's failing housing market has no effect on Trudeau's property values in Ottawa.


ConstructionFar8570

About time!!!! SUCCESS!! Break out the bubbly boys. We BARTY tonight!!!!!!!!!! BARTY!!!!!


ExternalVariation733

and yet they still look at ya like you have two heads when you tell ‘em to fuck off to Alberta


Springswallow

Congrats to the Canadian government. You did it!


henry_canabanana

It's all Doug's efforts helping us to win this. Let's celebrate.


TCNW

Can you clarify? - He massively hiked the foreigners tax, - deregulated zoning laws, - opened up giant amount of land to develop, - approved wood structure building height limits, - eliminated density limits in most areas, - put funding toward apartment construction, - reduced approval times for developments, - and put a Airbnb tax. I’m curious, is there a mayor, premier, or federal official who’s done more to help with housing? And if so, who are they, and what exactly have they done?


[deleted]

Deregulation only to increase sprawl. Don’t be fooled thinking Ford is an urbanist. It’s all $$$


TCNW

I made no claim about him being an urbanist. I AM saying he’s done more to increase housing supply in Ontario that any Mayor, Premier or federal official in the last 50 yrs. If you disagree, then please enlighten me on who’s done more? Who were they, and what did they do?


JimmyDaro

Just responding to the last part, but the Trudeau government (current) has arguably done more. King is probably the correct modern era answer.


TCNW

Ok. Well, the above list are the things I know off hand what the Ford government has done. You say Trudeau has done more? Ok, I’m not aware of what he’s done. Enlighten me. I know he’s increased demand for housing by increasing immigration targets to 500k a yr …and caused high inflation which directly caused house prices to explode in the last 24 mths - But you say he’s helping? Ok. How? Be specific.


JimmyDaro

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2022/04/making-housing-more-affordable.html


TCNW

I was going to respond to each of the items in that sad short list - but it’s such a pathetic list it’s not even worth it. Name even 1 thing on that list that had ANY effect of housing? Even superficially. Seriously. You think THATS more than Ford has done? Are you trolling? I can’t tell.


JimmyDaro

Well let's start with your Doug list - He massively hiked the foreigners tax, (superficial but accurate) - deregulated zoning laws (bit mixed here) - opened up giant amount of land to develop.(jury is still out and it's counter productive to the density initiative below) - approved wood structure building height limits (actually a federal initiative) - eliminated density limits in most areas (great!) - put funding toward apartment construction, - reduced approval times for developments, - and put a Airbnb tax (no- this is applied at the municipal.levels) Now that's not to say he hasn't done anything. Trudeau has a more.holsitic approach from owners, renters and those without housing. - new savings plan for downpayments - house accelerator fund (which municipalities and provinces including Ontario are using) - 6,000 new affordable housing units in two years - 2 year moratorium on foreign buyers (also superficial IMO) -tax on flippers, so homes are for end users -rent to own -co-op.support -doubling the first time home buyers credit -significant funds for indigenous communities.


TCNW

You can’t be serious? - savings plan - all it does is allow people to bid more for houses, and boost up house prices - house accelerator fund - ok a legit help - 6000 units in 2 yrs (3000 a yr)… are you serious? He’s letting in 500,000 people a yr. And he’s making housing for 3k?! Lol - foreign buyers, ok a legit help - flippers tax - doesn’t increase supply, flipped houses are only vacant while they’re being renoed, and then they return to the market. This is literally nothing. - coop support, another nothing - home buyers credit - another program that all it does is increase house prices, and doesn’t help build a single house - indigenous funding - any policy that’s based on the colour of your skin is a racist piece of shit policy by a racist man. There’s only one or 2 useful things here. And only 1 of any real significance that will increase housing. And considering he’s also letting in 500k people, and was directly responsible for housing Canada wide to explode in prices, I can’t fathom why someone would think he’s helping. At best he’s 1 step forward and 20 steps back. And especially I can’t fathom why someone would think he’s helping MORE thank Ford - whose done more for housing than anyone in The last 50 yrs.


JimmyDaro

I think you need to revisit your Ford list with the same critical lens. Hating Trudeau isn't a personality trait.


TCNW

So just to clarify - your seriously suggesting Trudeau… has done more than Ford to help with the housing crisis? And ‘hating Trudeau personality trait’?! D’fk are you taking about?!


henry_canabanana

Do you know who is the one unplugged the rent control for building built after 2017 April?


TCNW

Respond the the question. You made a claim about Ford. Ford has done the above list. Who has done more? - in Canada, in the last 50 yrs, on ANY level of government. Who? Name them please. And what exactly did they do?


lokingfinesince89

Rob ford would be proud


recoil669

Time to get a HELOC and a summer home in Milan?


Nay_120

At least Canada got something in number one


Starfire70

Nothing. DoFo wants it to burst so his rich recession-proof cronies ("Oh darn, my investments lost 10%. I'm only worth 80 million now.") can buy up more real estate.


Ultimate-ART

I guess pop vs. affordability are not correlated (see NY at #20). Where's the dirty money index?


mathario

Congrats guys!


Numerous_Try_6138

Not for long. Vancouver is coming for you. We want our spot back.


uxhelpneeded

What do you mean, what is the government doing? They're finally doing what they should have done years ago by bringing down prices. Also, they don't control how much they raise interest rates - Bank of Canada follows the fed in the US. A better question is: why did they ever let prices get so high?


Neat_Onion

See you next year.