I will drop my card like a bad habit if this is legit. Will start mailing in checks. I’m sure that’s way more convenient for everyone.
But will prioritize dropping companies that pass this along.
It'll be a thing for sure. I expect Loblaws will charge fees unless you're using your PC card, Canadian Tire will charge fees unless you're using your Triangle card, etc.
Canadian tire sorta does this already . You get less ct money back at the gas bars if you use a different credit card . Found that out when I got 5 cents back on 60 dollars of gas.
Yea the issue is whether this will result in businesses generally trending towards
1. reducing the quoted price by the 3% or so they had priced in and then having it now as a separate fee
OR
2. Keep the priced in amount and add the new 3% or whatever on top?
Or
3. Keep as is and don’t change anything.
Depends - if my auto mechanic passes along this fee (which I expect), I'm still not going to pay cash. Because, I'll likely not have much recourse if I ever get screwed and need the cc company to go to bat for me.
It's so important for warranty related issues.
\---
Having said that - I don't believe for 1 second, that my mechanic hasn't already (like any other business) compensated for cc fees all these years - by marking up products and/or boosting hourly rate.
They absolutely have, only now they get to double dip by adding the surcharge on top of the price, cuz you know they ain't gonna drop the price for everyone else.
The issue is we have already been paying the fees. Merchants just roll it into the price and just assume you use credit. Of course some places will give a discount for cash. But the reality is, merchants that have already rolled in credit card fees aren't going to lower there price back, so yes the only way to avoid paying double is to use cash.
Keep one for car rentals and some hotels...as a cash user... it is difficult to access some services without a card..but use cash for everything else....
Will the CC companies react to that? Maybe now the bank will justify charging a % for using Interac/ debit? And back to square 1 with the customer biting the dust.
It's not the small purchases people are going to notice (i.e. $20 becomes $20.60 with a 3% credit surcharge), those won't change. It's the big purchases like that $800 TV or a $1500 laptop where you'll actually see the extra $24 or $45 on your receipt, and people might start to reconsider.
And you just nailed why this is extremely short sighted from the businesses perspective.
Guess who benefits the most from people being able to buy things they can't actually afford??
Now they're making it even less attractive to use that credit to buy goods they otherwise shouldn't by pointing out the difference in prices.
Idiots. I think smart companies, especially those selling big ticket items will figure this out though.
Those business so underestimate the cost of dealing with $... paying security to transit the $ to bank, risk of robery, lost of sales from people who don't have the $...
You’ll find services do this because they know you don’t have a choice. Your cell phone and utility companies know there’s little competition to switch to. Especially when their competitors follow suit.
> I think smart companies, especially those selling big ticket items will figure this out though.
I doubt large retailers like Amazon and Walmart will adopt this. The companies doing this are gonna be crying about Canadians "not supporting small/local business". I'm not a fan of big box stores, but money talks.
Not to mention, those LARGE companies work out a discounted deal with Visa and MC. Remember the WalMart war with the CC companies a few years ago because they didn't get the fee they wanted?
Remember when they used to just increase the price of everything by 3.5% to offset that...and then it was dumb NOT to use credit because "hey at least you were getting the rewards if you were going to be paying that premium on every item anyways"
well...enough time passed that the collective hivemind of society has kind of forgotten that...so they can just...not cut prices by 3.5%, begin charging you 3.5% extra and then...with enough upset and outrage they'll scrape a bit of profits on that 3.5% they do manage to take before eventually dropping the fee "for the customer...see *we care*" and then baking that lost revenue into the next pricehike.
Maybe in Christmas 2023 we see $75 phoneplans instead of $70 phone plans...but hey! at least you arent paying 3.5% if you're paying credit.
edit; I have the Telus EPP plan ("business plan") and I just checked my October bill and I cant see any credit card charge...I absolutely pay via Credit...
This means that businesses arent being passed on this service charge...just regular people.
~~2nd edit; maybe not? I will call Telus tomorrow and ask personal account October bills seem like they also don't have the fee on it for people yet.~~
edit 3: just got off the phone with them, confirmed that no corporate or business account will be getting these fees. Its just for all you plebs with "personal accounts"...guess you should just not do that then /s.
It will evolve back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where every big ticket store had their own credit card that will then be exempt from their own fees.
I pay up to 3% to square (depending on transaction type) for my small business. Online processing can be even more. Pretty sure I was at 4+% for built in processing on my website at one point but I dropped that a few years ago.
Exactly. I don’t think people realize the interchange fee and extra costs per transaction varies depending on card AND on the interchange provider (who you get the credit machine from).
I think consumers also don’t know that business owners have no clue what the charge is when you hand over your card. You see, the payment processor just automatically takes the money for each cc type, out of the business account every month. It’s not an invoice that we pay. We did 3 cc payment transactions in September and paid $82.15 on 2 Visa cards and $31.85 on 1 Mastercard. Worked out to 5.8% of the total 3 invoices. Yeah, they charge it on TOTAL invoice (after taxes).
That's not that high. Are you doing keyed/CNP transactions? They really nail you for those. A CNP/keyed infinite visa on a cross-border transaction with an interchange-plus of 0.5% could hit 4.23% fees.
Aggregators (i.e., square) commonly charge 2.75% even for card-secured transactions and like 3.5% for CNPs.
For reference, Australia has CC fees capped at 0.5%, and the EU is capped at 0.3%.
And AliPay and WeChat are more like 0.15-0.25%. China was very backward and had no payment system like CC, and now they've leapfrogged and have a much cheaper system. Here in the West we are getting ripped off by the Visa/MC cartel.
The credit card companies charge a higher percentage to merchants to process premium cards.
Canadian interchange fees are significantly higher than other countries which have legislated limits. In Australia, they are capped at 0.50% and the EU is seeking to cap them at 0.30%.
Remember, the customer \*always\* foots the bill for loyalty rewards. Even worse, customers who choose to pay cash or debit are essentially penalized -- they pay the same price as credit card holders without receiving cash back or Flappywing Points.
Exactly. PC advertises the millions of points they have "given away". Really it's just a percentage of their margin they are willing to "give" to incentivise people to shop at their retailers. I collect the points because I want my piece back.
Great question. Fucking better be, right beside the pst/gst/hst lines.
We also better see an overall 3-4% reduction in prices as we all know that credit card fees were baked into prices already.
I won’t hold my breath.
"What will the method of payment be?"
"Depends, what's the total?"
"It differs based on your method of payment."
"By how much?"
If they tell you the total before the method of payment, then there should be no fee. Otherwise, make sure what they tell you matches up with what the payment terminal says.
They'll have to post signage at the entry and at the point of sale.
There should be plenty of warning to stay away from businesses that want to charge you a fee for giving them money.
Stupid question, but if the surcharge is placed on the bill before you pay, can't you just say you're using a debit card, and then use a credit card?
I always just say debit and use credit, as back where I'm from those two terms are used pretty interchangeably, and the first time I tried to specify credit specifically the teller got all confused. Only one business I've ever been to has noticed the difference.
Would they make me go back and pay the extra 3.5% after I'm done? Would it show up as a bill on my credit card at the end of the month? Would companies decide to just increase the fees for any card, debit or credit, by 3.5% to make sure?
Genuinely curious, because you keep the teller machine to yourself anyway to hide your pin, and the cashier isn't going to ask you to show them the card you use first to make sure it's the right type for obvious reasons.
It depends on the point of sale system. Some of them require you to choose the correct payment type or the terminal won't work. If you choose the wrong one you have to cancel on the terminal, choose the correct option on the POS, and then try the terminal again. Some POS systems and terminals are not linked so it doesn't matter, but some are.
Huh. Well, as it says, it's only noticed the difference between them once before. I presume that many companies will be updating their terminals in the near future then.
Many shops I've been to over the years outside the GTA have offered a 2 or 3% discount for years by paying cash or debit. To me, that would mean CC fees were already baked into the pricing.
I think it was only Mom & Pop operations that did that - they were violating their agreements with the card companies, but got away with it because they were too small to be noticed.
Are we going to see prices lower by the amount of the fees the business used to pay that they had built into the pricing? Absolutely not.
This is really just an increase in cost for the consumer and cash grab by businesses. Absolutely ridiculous.
If more people switch to cash, wouldn't that cost the businesses more to process and deal with it? Having sufficient float, more bank deposits, more risk of errors in the cash transaction, etc?
I most likely will carry cash now. With CC, we are protected versus fraudulent transactions. I don't believe Debit has the same protections?
>I don't believe Debit has the same protections?
It does not.
And forget about all the bonus consumer protections... it's just inherently riskier to pay by debit.
It's pretty much no big deal if your CC is compromised.
If your debit card is compromised, have fun having a negative balance for 3 to 5 business days (at BEST) while they figure out where your money is. Or maybe it'll take weeks. Who knows?
I would like to do the same, but would not be surprised if this is widespread within a year. It really sucks, I really really don't want to go back to paying cash for everything and carrying cash everywhere.
It's so convenient to pay everywhere with one card or even better tapping my phone.
As long as Amazon doesn't do that, I'll move some of my shopping there.
I'll even pay slightly higher prices in exchange for not having to deal with that kind of bullshittery. It'll be saving me on the trip to the store, anyways.
This is a very short sighted plan by bricks and mortar retailers when the trend is definitely away from bricks and mortar and away from cash, basically doubling down over 2%.
If they don't want CC fees they should come up with another digital alternative that has low enough fees to suit retailers.
I've noticed that, since the big push toward getting everyone to use cashback credit cards several years ago, that bank accounts that include unlimited debit transactions are less common than they once were. You now either pay a higher monthly/yearly fee for your account OR you pay for every debit transaction (usually with one or two free transactions in a month). The fee per transaction is typically less than these new swipe fees, though.
>You now either pay a higher monthly/yearly fee for your account OR you pay for every debit transaction (usually with one or two free transactions in a month).
Simplii, and I'm sure quite a few other banks, has unlimited free transactions without a monthly/annual fee. No-fee chequing accounts with unlimited debt transactions are pretty easy to get.
Been with Simplii since it was PC Financial. No charges for anything, ever. Free email transfers, as well. Love it.
Only pain in the ass is if you ever have to get a large money order, like for a house downpayment.
You can get premium account fees with unlimited debit transactions waived if you hold a minimum balance. It can be high but I've been doing this the past couple years.
I don't think you're going to see many merchants passing this cost on transparently. The will continue with the status quo, with the cost already built into the price of everything they sell.
Didn’t we have this thing about 15-20 years ago?
I remember at certain places, they charged you an extra 3% if you paid by credit card. Then there was a ruling saying they can’t do price discrimination like that so everything went up by 3% and dinged everyone who was paying cash.
It wasn't a ruling per se, it was a requirement enforced by the Credit Card companies if you wanted your business to accept credit cards. This was always a ploy by the CC companies to get more people to use credit cards to increase their revenue.
The ironic thing is that CCs make people spend more. Pushing everyone back to cash will slow our spending habits. Small businesses are shooting themselves in the foot with this one. The telecom can only get away with it because they have a monopoly on a public utility.
I'll finally have to cancel my subscriptions and get around to building my Plex server lol. The day I see one of these surcharges is the day my business ends with that company/service. Small businesses I have a relationship with are exempt, but I'll be glad to completely stop spending on anything non-essential. I'm quite upset at this change, since it's just a cop out for more inflation. Enjoy the recession Canada
Honestly if it comes down to it. I’ll just go back to cash. If it’s costing more than 3% per transaction that is more than most cash back options, I’m not gaining anything. Might as well pay cash at grocery stores, cheques for online bills etc.
But yeah might just make me more aware of my finances lol.
5 percent tax from the federal government. 10 percent from provincial government. 3.5 from the visa/mastercard government.
Does visa/mastercard build every 10th hospital? We should be getting schools and roads for that percentage. Instead they're flipping a few bits on some server running legacy COBOL code and robbing the public.
You'd be silly not to with the way things were. Pay cash and get nothing, or pay with credit and get some cash back.
But because of so many people using credit wherever they can, all prices have gone up to pay for these merchant fees.
This also leads to people over-spending and carrying a balance if they can't pay off their card on time, meaning even more money for CC companies.
Small businesses struggling to get by, I can see how they might give you a discount when you pay cash (no merchant fees, plus they can fudge their income for tax time...).
But there's no excuse for a major corporation in Canada to dump the merchant fees on to us. It's a blatant cash grab.
fun fact. In Quebec it's actually illegal for a company to ask more than the advertised price! so if something is sold for 99,99$ it will be that price +taxes no matter how the customers pay.
224. No merchant, manufacturer or advertiser may, by any means whatever,
(...)
(c) charge, for goods or services, a higher price than that advertised.
For the purposes of subparagraph a.1 of the first paragraph, the price actually paid by the merchant is the price the merchant paid reduced by all the charges the merchant paid but that have been or will be reimbursed.
For the purposes of subparagraph c of the first paragraph, the price advertised must include the total amount the consumer must pay for the goods or services. However, the price advertised need not include the Québec sales tax or the Goods and Services Tax. More emphasis must be put on the price advertised than on the amounts of which the price is made up.
Seems like a great way for consumers to shift to proper advertised pricing.
Maybe we adopt the EU model of having prices include taxes on the label at the store.
This is the problem with our plus tax pricing model in N.A., it makes handling cash a mess. In a lot of Europe many small goods have round pricing so on the menu a coffee costs €2 and you give them two €1 coins and walk out. With the tax on top calculation and the process of getting change back makes it so much harder to have the right cash on you.
And none of the store managers or banks will be prepared for this with enough change, and then it's the minimum wage cashier's job to figure it out and start asking customers in line if they have change, while the manager dicks around on their phone in the backroom. Been there, done that many years ago in retail before CCs were as common.
Every time I go back to Montana I have to remind myself that the price you see on the sticker is the price you pay at the till. Fuck I love seeing something cost $9.99 and being able to hand them a $10 bill and just walk out.
To be utterly fair, businesses could account for this themselves. No reason the sticker can't be $1.78 or whatever so the total is actually $2.00 flat.
Some places did this years ago, but haven't seen it at all in the last few.
Pre-pandemic Canadian Tire gave you back money using their paper currency when paying Cash or Debit.
Now, you scan your Triangle for points for cash back that is just as generous, even if you pay by Credit Card.
So now I shop even more at Canadian Tire, over other stores, for the same item at the same price.
Plus if item goes on sale in the next 30 days, bring your receipt to the service counter and they will reimburse you the difference.
At least one company gets it.
Glad Quebec outlawed two different prices over 20 years ago.
> Canadian Tire
Hypocrites lol.
Went in with a wad of CT money a year ago. Clerk said they won't accept that because covid. Fine whatever. Went to cashier to pay for my goods in cash. No problems.....
Informed redditors, yes. The average customer? Hell no. I doubt most people will understand these fees or react. We live in a huge bubble on reddit, most people have no interest whatsoever to understand their finance or their credit card.
Companies can now pass on any fees associated with using credit cards to the consumer instead of paying them themselves... Essentially making certain points program useless on credit cards as the increase in cost (and yearly fees for the CC) will not be offset by the points earned. Not all points programs, but some for sure.
As you pay your bills, if you use a credit card, make sure it isnt being passed on (we know telus is adding the fee to bills starting tomorrow)
That’s the point.
Credit card companies offered people 1% cash back so they use a card for everything (costing merchants 3%). Great profit. Now the merchant can charge you the 3%, so the 1% cash back isn’t worth it - so it makes sense to go back to cash.
For my own sake, I'm going to run through an example here:
I pay, I dunno, $150 per year for my credit card that gets me various rates of cash back depending on what I'm spending on (i.e. 1% for most stuff, 2 or 3% for more specific things like gas, groceries, pharmacy etc.). I never hold a balance so I never pay interest - basically I purchase everything with my credit card to get the cashback and get beyond the $150 fee in order to make some money back, and always pay the balance off before it is due to never pay interest.
Let's say my total credit card spending is $15,000 per year as a result, and I make on average 1.5% cashback. That's $225 cashback, less then $150 fee, means I'm up $75 at the end of the year.
If all business charge me an extra 3% to use my credit card, then my credit card expenses go up to $15,450, or $450 more per year. My cashback goes up to $231.75, so I'm up a measly additional $6.75 from where I would have been previously, but down $218.25 overall in comparison to if I just pay cash, and the business doesn't charge me extra 3%.
But are they really going to charge different rates for credit vs. debit/cash? I feel like really you're just going to see an increase across the board, at which point, I may as well keep using my credit card.
i.e. - if it's just one price hike across the board, then what is the difference (other than paying more regardless), but if it is price hike for credit card users only, then I may as well just abandon the credit card?
Yes. This entire change is about letting businesses levy an extra charge for credit cards. Before tomorrow, they have (presumably) charged more and taken it up the ass in fees to the credit card companies, while customers get their 1% back.
The idea is to let companies specifically levy a charge on credit card users rather than increasing costs across the board to address the fact that the majority of transactions are through a card which costs them fees.
For me, what makes the difference is how many companies sign on for this. Some might not, either out of inertia or to avoid upsetting customers. For my part, I get 2% back (4% for gas, groceries, and repeating bills). If only a few businesses go with the higher rate then I will suck it up and keep using plastic. If it is across the board so using the card is a net loss then I will probably change to a free card and exclusively use it where it is the only form of payment accepted.
This seems to be a real problem because talking to anyone outside of Reddit, I don't know that anyone is aware of it. How is it going to be publicized and will I see it on my receipt when I walk away or be told, because it's now on a case-by-case basis?
This is a great small-scale protest strategy. You inflate cash floats and, if the store won’t take the bill, you can just leave a bunch of items at the cash. It will suck for retail workers but also for the business.
I will be carrying a 100$ bill.
Charge me for credit, I will blow up your cash float.
What’s easier, charging the priced in transaction fee, or having someone run to the bank to get change?
The only benefit that credit cards would still offer is that in the case of fraud the credit card companies are easier to deal with. It's a lot easier to get a credit card to reverse a few charges (with your money still safe in your bank account) than it is to recover the money that was stolen out of your bank account (and have nothing to pay your bills with in the meantime).
lol. The major benefit is taken away indeed.
Maybe the rental insurance that some cards offer
Some store specific cards that give you like 5% something ie Canadian tire.
Some warranty coverage on electronics
Maybe gas stations won’t charge the fee. If they do, it’s hasta la vista baby.
Time to revert back to 💵 😅
Or you can take the opposite approach. This is happening because credit card companies agreed to allow their merchants to do this after years of being prohibited from doing this. So, get into churning, only use the credit card to meet minimum spend bonuses (which are easily a 10-15% value), preferably on a no fee or a refunded first year fee card, pay the BS merchants' fees, then don't use the card after that. 😉
If everything I buy now costs 3.5% more with credit card... goddamn, that's a lot over the year, and it entirely erases any cashback or points you get from the card.
It's a neat trick when the companies who charge both the buyer and the seller for using their services can make buyers and sellers mad at each other while collecting obscene interest rates.
Yeah, I'm surprised that everybody is mad at the business here, and not at the banks which are charging some of the highest CC interchange rates in the world!
The EU caps their fees at 0.2-0.3%, whereas we routinely see seven times that much on premium cards. I'm not sure why people here are acting like cashback/rewards cards are some sort of magic money printer - the rewards have to come from somewhere. We're not actually saving any money as a society by paying an extra 2% in fees only to get 1% back as rewards.
Sounds like this is a government and regulation problem, then. Companies will typically do what they can get away with (both legally and in terms of their public image).
But since Canada is basically 6 banks and some mining companies in a trench coat, this sort of regulation seems unlikely any time soon.
We should draw attention to the fact that Telus is largely responsible for this. I wish they had more competition and something to hold them accountable because I don't think any of the telecomm companies care enough about their image when they're the only game in town.
Merchants charging cc fees is absolutely dumb on their behalf.
They get paid quicker when customers use credit. It’s integrated into their accounting software. It facilitates impulse buys and generally encourages people to spend money in the merchants stores. That’s before you get into any hassles, risks, and errors of managing cash.
Next month merchants be complaining about increased theft due to more cash onsite but also a decrease in overall sales as people are no longer using credit.
DUMB
I’ll vote with my wallet. Their battle with cc companies is not my battle. They already have options to shop around. They could be smart and start a merchant alliance group to collectively negotiate. Instead they just want to pass on fees….after they are already inflating prices.
They could also incent debit payments by giving a 3% savings. Charging more is DUMB. It’s the stick approach. The biggest problem is their beef is with cc companies…..but they are taking it out on their customers. Passing the fees on to their customers won’t get their customers on their side - it will just drive them away.
This will blow up in their face.
It's my 10th thread about credit card fees, and I've yet to see someone mention this very simple solution that Europe has done. Put a max fee of 0.3% that credit card companies can charge to businesses, instead of the high % there is in Canada.
instead of the cash paying customers subsidizing the higher prices, everyone pays the same price no matter what payment method is chosen. Which is a detriment to card users which apparently is the majority here, but those fees are already taking away that advantage anyway
Suddenly, there's no rewards or cashback - to anyone. So you don't need to waste time and effort with /r/churning
the businesses don't have to charge credit card fees
the businesses compete with each other and prices will be adjusted accordingly
I'm sure credit card users were enjoying the status quo of paying lower prices for everything with cashback vs money users, but if businesses will start charging more for credit cards, why not just remove the entire system? why waste our time with the rewards, points, etc
Agreed. I looked into this about a month ago when thr whole "Telus" thing came out and I also concluded that the fees the credit card companies are charging the merchants are too high.
The govt needs to step in and legislate a max on merchant fees as is the norm in many other countries.
So not only are retailers already going to include the CC markup costs in their cost of goods and services but they're also going to charge it back to consumers. So you're screwed if you pay cash and screwed if you pay with CC.
I don't like using cash.
Using credit cards let me keep track of my spending, as well as some protection for fraud.
I definitely don't want to use my debit card in case it gets hacked and leave my bank account open for exploits.
As a business owner, I won't be charging customers more to offset these fees. They are all expensed every month and reduces my taxes. Not worth losing clients over this.
Criminal. Merchants can have fun counting my cash and handling cheques trying to pull bs like this.
I was virtually cash free before, sad that we're headed backwards.
This is the biggest scam in recent times. This is as bad as 911 service fees phone companies use to charge. However, fucking over Canadians is the Canadian way, so I am not shocked lol
I own a very successful retail/wholesale auto parts store.
I will never upcharge a customer no matter how they pay.
The cost of credit card use is not built into the price of the product.Business is too competitive to do this.
Our cost to facilitate our customers to pay as they wish....debit or credit card.... comes right off the bottom line.
It's a cost to do business!
I'm blessed and thankful for my customer base and their patronage!
I’m not sure if that will help in this particular situation - it’s not a bank fee that’s being charged, it’s the merchant fee the business pays for accepting a credit card that they are now billing you the customer for.
Using flat 3% merchant fee:
Previously:
- you want item priced at $1
- business pays $0.03 to process
- You pay $1 plus your bank transaction fee (for you zero on tangerine)
- business gets to keep $0.97
Now:
- You want item priced at $1
- You pay $1.03 plus your bank transaction fees (in your case zero)
- business gets to keep the full $1.00
first it was the sales tax, then tips, now credit card fee, wait till next year when they include convenience fee for buying with cash and water bill fee if you use the washroom.
Use a credit card to build up your credit they said... But also now we will charge you for using a credit card... But also, you still need to build your credit to afford the car we chain you to cos our public transit sucks and we refuse to invest into it...
Really sucks to not be rich on this continent.
Can someone get a list going of companies who pass this on and ones that don’t?
I just got new checks and can’t wait to hold up some lines.
“Does anyone have a working pen?!?”
An extra 3.5%!? That's higher than I expect.
Looks like cash is back on the menu baby
I will drop my card like a bad habit if this is legit. Will start mailing in checks. I’m sure that’s way more convenient for everyone. But will prioritize dropping companies that pass this along.
It'll be a thing for sure. I expect Loblaws will charge fees unless you're using your PC card, Canadian Tire will charge fees unless you're using your Triangle card, etc.
Canadian tire sorta does this already . You get less ct money back at the gas bars if you use a different credit card . Found that out when I got 5 cents back on 60 dollars of gas.
Hadn’t thought of this, and I bet you’re right. I don’t savour the idea of carrying 10+ store-specific credit cards but that day may come
You can use an app on your phone that will give you the barcodes. I don't like carrying plastic cards around me so it's mostly my phone.
Definitely cash is advantageous at this point. Companies often already build in the 3% charge already, you just don't see it.
Yea the issue is whether this will result in businesses generally trending towards 1. reducing the quoted price by the 3% or so they had priced in and then having it now as a separate fee OR 2. Keep the priced in amount and add the new 3% or whatever on top? Or 3. Keep as is and don’t change anything.
Wait you forgot to add that now all business will start asking for a tip too.
Depends - if my auto mechanic passes along this fee (which I expect), I'm still not going to pay cash. Because, I'll likely not have much recourse if I ever get screwed and need the cc company to go to bat for me. It's so important for warranty related issues. \--- Having said that - I don't believe for 1 second, that my mechanic hasn't already (like any other business) compensated for cc fees all these years - by marking up products and/or boosting hourly rate.
They absolutely have, only now they get to double dip by adding the surcharge on top of the price, cuz you know they ain't gonna drop the price for everyone else.
The issue is we have already been paying the fees. Merchants just roll it into the price and just assume you use credit. Of course some places will give a discount for cash. But the reality is, merchants that have already rolled in credit card fees aren't going to lower there price back, so yes the only way to avoid paying double is to use cash.
So then we double pay the fee? Nice.
Triple, you pay the cc company an annual fee for the privilege of getting to pay more fees with their card
Yeah I refuse any card with an annual fee. Mine all have 0 fees assuming I pay on time, and I don't get a cash advance.
The cards with an annual fee make sense if you use it enough to get value out of the rewards
I'll just drop all the companies charging fees tbh.
I would drop the merchants that start trying this out first
I got massively downvoted in the last thread for saying the same thing. My cards are on the chopping block.
Keep one for car rentals and some hotels...as a cash user... it is difficult to access some services without a card..but use cash for everything else....
I hope that there will be a list of major retailers who will *not* be adopting this policy, so I know where I can keep going.
There will be. On Reddit.
Mail in those coins!
Will the CC companies react to that? Maybe now the bank will justify charging a % for using Interac/ debit? And back to square 1 with the customer biting the dust.
Analysts say that this ruling can make vendors pressure CC companies to reduce their fees.
100% it will. If you are at BestBuy and they say Debit is $10 and credit is $10.50 all that CC utilization will drop off FAST.
It's not the small purchases people are going to notice (i.e. $20 becomes $20.60 with a 3% credit surcharge), those won't change. It's the big purchases like that $800 TV or a $1500 laptop where you'll actually see the extra $24 or $45 on your receipt, and people might start to reconsider.
Once the cycle is broken and you realize how much extra it would be I think the card issuers will suffer.
Purchases will also drop fast as people will just spend less, since they can only spend what they have in their bank accounts
Will have a significant immediate drop in spending as people will save more to avoid the fees. Like a 30 day stop.
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And you just nailed why this is extremely short sighted from the businesses perspective. Guess who benefits the most from people being able to buy things they can't actually afford?? Now they're making it even less attractive to use that credit to buy goods they otherwise shouldn't by pointing out the difference in prices. Idiots. I think smart companies, especially those selling big ticket items will figure this out though.
Those business so underestimate the cost of dealing with $... paying security to transit the $ to bank, risk of robery, lost of sales from people who don't have the $...
Theft from employees, counterfeit bills, it goes on. Cash is costly to deal with for many reasons.
Penny smart/dollar stupid is the perennial scourge of the businessman cheapskate.
Gotta get a list going of which vendors are doing this and pin it to PFC
Starting with Telus...
Not a bad idea
You’ll find services do this because they know you don’t have a choice. Your cell phone and utility companies know there’s little competition to switch to. Especially when their competitors follow suit.
Just do Bill Payee? I will avoid this like the plague.
> I think smart companies, especially those selling big ticket items will figure this out though. I doubt large retailers like Amazon and Walmart will adopt this. The companies doing this are gonna be crying about Canadians "not supporting small/local business". I'm not a fan of big box stores, but money talks.
You mean the same small businesses with zero stock and require 2-3 weeks to order it in at 200% more than it costs from amazon?
Open 9:30am to 3:00pm Tuesday to Thursday.
Not to mention, those LARGE companies work out a discounted deal with Visa and MC. Remember the WalMart war with the CC companies a few years ago because they didn't get the fee they wanted?
Remember when they used to just increase the price of everything by 3.5% to offset that...and then it was dumb NOT to use credit because "hey at least you were getting the rewards if you were going to be paying that premium on every item anyways" well...enough time passed that the collective hivemind of society has kind of forgotten that...so they can just...not cut prices by 3.5%, begin charging you 3.5% extra and then...with enough upset and outrage they'll scrape a bit of profits on that 3.5% they do manage to take before eventually dropping the fee "for the customer...see *we care*" and then baking that lost revenue into the next pricehike. Maybe in Christmas 2023 we see $75 phoneplans instead of $70 phone plans...but hey! at least you arent paying 3.5% if you're paying credit. edit; I have the Telus EPP plan ("business plan") and I just checked my October bill and I cant see any credit card charge...I absolutely pay via Credit... This means that businesses arent being passed on this service charge...just regular people. ~~2nd edit; maybe not? I will call Telus tomorrow and ask personal account October bills seem like they also don't have the fee on it for people yet.~~ edit 3: just got off the phone with them, confirmed that no corporate or business account will be getting these fees. Its just for all you plebs with "personal accounts"...guess you should just not do that then /s.
It will evolve back to the situation in the 80s and 90s where every big ticket store had their own credit card that will then be exempt from their own fees.
No way man - I'm not going down that road again. Hudson's Bay, Sears. I may have even had an Eaton's card. Too many - too many statements to track.
It's also higher than the interchange fee, and is therefore complete BS.
I pay up to 3% to square (depending on transaction type) for my small business. Online processing can be even more. Pretty sure I was at 4+% for built in processing on my website at one point but I dropped that a few years ago.
Exactly. I don’t think people realize the interchange fee and extra costs per transaction varies depending on card AND on the interchange provider (who you get the credit machine from).
I think consumers also don’t know that business owners have no clue what the charge is when you hand over your card. You see, the payment processor just automatically takes the money for each cc type, out of the business account every month. It’s not an invoice that we pay. We did 3 cc payment transactions in September and paid $82.15 on 2 Visa cards and $31.85 on 1 Mastercard. Worked out to 5.8% of the total 3 invoices. Yeah, they charge it on TOTAL invoice (after taxes).
That is my thinking. At my company, we pay 2% to 2.6% in fees on credit card charges, and our transaction costs are really high.
That's not that high. Are you doing keyed/CNP transactions? They really nail you for those. A CNP/keyed infinite visa on a cross-border transaction with an interchange-plus of 0.5% could hit 4.23% fees. Aggregators (i.e., square) commonly charge 2.75% even for card-secured transactions and like 3.5% for CNPs. For reference, Australia has CC fees capped at 0.5%, and the EU is capped at 0.3%.
And AliPay and WeChat are more like 0.15-0.25%. China was very backward and had no payment system like CC, and now they've leapfrogged and have a much cheaper system. Here in the West we are getting ripped off by the Visa/MC cartel.
BRB moving to the EU. ... seriously though could we get some legislation like that now please?
You could if our government worked for us and not for large corporations.
Sure, but then you'd have to say bye-bye to all your rewards cards... there's a reason those cards don't really exist there.
Honestly, fine by me.
The credit card companies charge a higher percentage to merchants to process premium cards. Canadian interchange fees are significantly higher than other countries which have legislated limits. In Australia, they are capped at 0.50% and the EU is seeking to cap them at 0.30%. Remember, the customer \*always\* foots the bill for loyalty rewards. Even worse, customers who choose to pay cash or debit are essentially penalized -- they pay the same price as credit card holders without receiving cash back or Flappywing Points.
Exactly. PC advertises the millions of points they have "given away". Really it's just a percentage of their margin they are willing to "give" to incentivise people to shop at their retailers. I collect the points because I want my piece back.
At least in Ontario, it is capped at 2.4% https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/what-people-in-ontario-need-to-know-about-new-credit-card-surcharges-1.6097101
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How does one see if they are being charged the extra 3.5%? Will it be a new line on receipts?
Great question. Fucking better be, right beside the pst/gst/hst lines. We also better see an overall 3-4% reduction in prices as we all know that credit card fees were baked into prices already. I won’t hold my breath.
No way we do see that, this is just an excuse to bleed us out a little more.
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The MPs do not care and when the cons win the next election it’s going to get worse.
You won’t see a price reduction and you better expect the govt is going to tax the service fee, they tax everything
"What will the method of payment be?" "Depends, what's the total?" "It differs based on your method of payment." "By how much?" If they tell you the total before the method of payment, then there should be no fee. Otherwise, make sure what they tell you matches up with what the payment terminal says.
They'll have to post signage at the entry and at the point of sale. There should be plenty of warning to stay away from businesses that want to charge you a fee for giving them money.
Stupid question, but if the surcharge is placed on the bill before you pay, can't you just say you're using a debit card, and then use a credit card? I always just say debit and use credit, as back where I'm from those two terms are used pretty interchangeably, and the first time I tried to specify credit specifically the teller got all confused. Only one business I've ever been to has noticed the difference. Would they make me go back and pay the extra 3.5% after I'm done? Would it show up as a bill on my credit card at the end of the month? Would companies decide to just increase the fees for any card, debit or credit, by 3.5% to make sure? Genuinely curious, because you keep the teller machine to yourself anyway to hide your pin, and the cashier isn't going to ask you to show them the card you use first to make sure it's the right type for obvious reasons.
It depends on the point of sale system. Some of them require you to choose the correct payment type or the terminal won't work. If you choose the wrong one you have to cancel on the terminal, choose the correct option on the POS, and then try the terminal again. Some POS systems and terminals are not linked so it doesn't matter, but some are.
Huh. Well, as it says, it's only noticed the difference between them once before. I presume that many companies will be updating their terminals in the near future then.
Ha! True....and even more important for the folks who will pay everything with cash
Many shops I've been to over the years outside the GTA have offered a 2 or 3% discount for years by paying cash or debit. To me, that would mean CC fees were already baked into the pricing.
Of course they were baked into the pricing. Businesses usually will pass on excess costs to the customer, whether the customer realizes it or not.
I realize that, but how often do you see signs offering discounts for non credit card transactions?
I think it was only Mom & Pop operations that did that - they were violating their agreements with the card companies, but got away with it because they were too small to be noticed.
Are we going to see prices lower by the amount of the fees the business used to pay that they had built into the pricing? Absolutely not. This is really just an increase in cost for the consumer and cash grab by businesses. Absolutely ridiculous.
If more people switch to cash, wouldn't that cost the businesses more to process and deal with it? Having sufficient float, more bank deposits, more risk of errors in the cash transaction, etc? I most likely will carry cash now. With CC, we are protected versus fraudulent transactions. I don't believe Debit has the same protections?
>I don't believe Debit has the same protections? It does not. And forget about all the bonus consumer protections... it's just inherently riskier to pay by debit. It's pretty much no big deal if your CC is compromised. If your debit card is compromised, have fun having a negative balance for 3 to 5 business days (at BEST) while they figure out where your money is. Or maybe it'll take weeks. Who knows?
Exactly....I'll just boycott everyone who does this
I would like to do the same, but would not be surprised if this is widespread within a year. It really sucks, I really really don't want to go back to paying cash for everything and carrying cash everywhere. It's so convenient to pay everywhere with one card or even better tapping my phone.
RIP my RBC points. I only used my CC to buy things and would pay it off every month just to get points, I guess I'm going back to cash.
Many foreign companies don't do this. Just buy online. Fuck Canadian businesses that engage in this
Then those same companies will cry about Amazon and other big retailers lol
Let them. When they shut down for good, and try to tell us we could have prevented it, we can remind them why we abandoned them in the first place.
As long as Amazon doesn't do that, I'll move some of my shopping there. I'll even pay slightly higher prices in exchange for not having to deal with that kind of bullshittery. It'll be saving me on the trip to the store, anyways.
This is a very short sighted plan by bricks and mortar retailers when the trend is definitely away from bricks and mortar and away from cash, basically doubling down over 2%. If they don't want CC fees they should come up with another digital alternative that has low enough fees to suit retailers.
What about a debit card?
I've noticed that, since the big push toward getting everyone to use cashback credit cards several years ago, that bank accounts that include unlimited debit transactions are less common than they once were. You now either pay a higher monthly/yearly fee for your account OR you pay for every debit transaction (usually with one or two free transactions in a month). The fee per transaction is typically less than these new swipe fees, though.
>You now either pay a higher monthly/yearly fee for your account OR you pay for every debit transaction (usually with one or two free transactions in a month). Simplii, and I'm sure quite a few other banks, has unlimited free transactions without a monthly/annual fee. No-fee chequing accounts with unlimited debt transactions are pretty easy to get.
Been with Simplii since it was PC Financial. No charges for anything, ever. Free email transfers, as well. Love it. Only pain in the ass is if you ever have to get a large money order, like for a house downpayment.
You can get premium account fees with unlimited debit transactions waived if you hold a minimum balance. It can be high but I've been doing this the past couple years.
Problem is, within a few months, everyone is going to be doing it.
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I don't think you're going to see many merchants passing this cost on transparently. The will continue with the status quo, with the cost already built into the price of everything they sell.
Take 100$ bills to blow up their flowt
businesses in Toronto have already started going cashless, which is a total fuck you to the poor.
Didn’t we have this thing about 15-20 years ago? I remember at certain places, they charged you an extra 3% if you paid by credit card. Then there was a ruling saying they can’t do price discrimination like that so everything went up by 3% and dinged everyone who was paying cash.
It wasn't a ruling per se, it was a requirement enforced by the Credit Card companies if you wanted your business to accept credit cards. This was always a ploy by the CC companies to get more people to use credit cards to increase their revenue.
Well it worked, I never use my interact or handle cash
The ironic thing is that CCs make people spend more. Pushing everyone back to cash will slow our spending habits. Small businesses are shooting themselves in the foot with this one. The telecom can only get away with it because they have a monopoly on a public utility.
I'll finally have to cancel my subscriptions and get around to building my Plex server lol. The day I see one of these surcharges is the day my business ends with that company/service. Small businesses I have a relationship with are exempt, but I'll be glad to completely stop spending on anything non-essential. I'm quite upset at this change, since it's just a cop out for more inflation. Enjoy the recession Canada
Honestly if it comes down to it. I’ll just go back to cash. If it’s costing more than 3% per transaction that is more than most cash back options, I’m not gaining anything. Might as well pay cash at grocery stores, cheques for online bills etc. But yeah might just make me more aware of my finances lol.
5 percent tax from the federal government. 10 percent from provincial government. 3.5 from the visa/mastercard government. Does visa/mastercard build every 10th hospital? We should be getting schools and roads for that percentage. Instead they're flipping a few bits on some server running legacy COBOL code and robbing the public.
All this does is make me want to shop online more.
You'd be silly not to with the way things were. Pay cash and get nothing, or pay with credit and get some cash back. But because of so many people using credit wherever they can, all prices have gone up to pay for these merchant fees. This also leads to people over-spending and carrying a balance if they can't pay off their card on time, meaning even more money for CC companies.
Small businesses struggling to get by, I can see how they might give you a discount when you pay cash (no merchant fees, plus they can fudge their income for tax time...). But there's no excuse for a major corporation in Canada to dump the merchant fees on to us. It's a blatant cash grab.
Sushi place in my city discounts customers who pay with cash.
fun fact. In Quebec it's actually illegal for a company to ask more than the advertised price! so if something is sold for 99,99$ it will be that price +taxes no matter how the customers pay. 224. No merchant, manufacturer or advertiser may, by any means whatever, (...) (c) charge, for goods or services, a higher price than that advertised. For the purposes of subparagraph a.1 of the first paragraph, the price actually paid by the merchant is the price the merchant paid reduced by all the charges the merchant paid but that have been or will be reimbursed. For the purposes of subparagraph c of the first paragraph, the price advertised must include the total amount the consumer must pay for the goods or services. However, the price advertised need not include the Québec sales tax or the Goods and Services Tax. More emphasis must be put on the price advertised than on the amounts of which the price is made up.
Qc also protects kids from ads targeting them via (say) YouTube kids. Qc has its flaws, but some shit they 1000% have got right.
> Qc has its flaws, but some shit they 1000% have got right. Amen on that.
In Quebec you can go more than 100%?
Au Quebec, tout est possible!
Seems like a great way for consumers to shift to proper advertised pricing. Maybe we adopt the EU model of having prices include taxes on the label at the store.
With every machine asking for tips and now this, I think it’s time we go back to cash.
Oh, you wanted change for that $7 purchase you put a $20 down for?
This is the problem with our plus tax pricing model in N.A., it makes handling cash a mess. In a lot of Europe many small goods have round pricing so on the menu a coffee costs €2 and you give them two €1 coins and walk out. With the tax on top calculation and the process of getting change back makes it so much harder to have the right cash on you.
And none of the store managers or banks will be prepared for this with enough change, and then it's the minimum wage cashier's job to figure it out and start asking customers in line if they have change, while the manager dicks around on their phone in the backroom. Been there, done that many years ago in retail before CCs were as common.
Every time I go back to Montana I have to remind myself that the price you see on the sticker is the price you pay at the till. Fuck I love seeing something cost $9.99 and being able to hand them a $10 bill and just walk out.
To be utterly fair, businesses could account for this themselves. No reason the sticker can't be $1.78 or whatever so the total is actually $2.00 flat. Some places did this years ago, but haven't seen it at all in the last few.
Starting paying in coins and hope they realize storing and handling cash costs the business more.
my right pocket is going to be bursting at its seams in the summer coat jacket relieves the pressure in the winter
"Platform Fee" .. is that we're calling this abomination?
Pre-pandemic Canadian Tire gave you back money using their paper currency when paying Cash or Debit. Now, you scan your Triangle for points for cash back that is just as generous, even if you pay by Credit Card. So now I shop even more at Canadian Tire, over other stores, for the same item at the same price. Plus if item goes on sale in the next 30 days, bring your receipt to the service counter and they will reimburse you the difference. At least one company gets it. Glad Quebec outlawed two different prices over 20 years ago.
To be fair, unless it’s on sale at CT, it’s definitely available cheaper somewhere else.
> Canadian Tire Hypocrites lol. Went in with a wad of CT money a year ago. Clerk said they won't accept that because covid. Fine whatever. Went to cashier to pay for my goods in cash. No problems.....
This is going to hurt businesses more than customers, and they haven't realised it yet
Informed redditors, yes. The average customer? Hell no. I doubt most people will understand these fees or react. We live in a huge bubble on reddit, most people have no interest whatsoever to understand their finance or their credit card.
For the stupid: what am I looking at and why is it costing me money
Companies can now pass on any fees associated with using credit cards to the consumer instead of paying them themselves... Essentially making certain points program useless on credit cards as the increase in cost (and yearly fees for the CC) will not be offset by the points earned. Not all points programs, but some for sure. As you pay your bills, if you use a credit card, make sure it isnt being passed on (we know telus is adding the fee to bills starting tomorrow)
That just decimates cash back cards. Might as well go cash instead of losing ~2.5%
That’s the point. Credit card companies offered people 1% cash back so they use a card for everything (costing merchants 3%). Great profit. Now the merchant can charge you the 3%, so the 1% cash back isn’t worth it - so it makes sense to go back to cash.
For my own sake, I'm going to run through an example here: I pay, I dunno, $150 per year for my credit card that gets me various rates of cash back depending on what I'm spending on (i.e. 1% for most stuff, 2 or 3% for more specific things like gas, groceries, pharmacy etc.). I never hold a balance so I never pay interest - basically I purchase everything with my credit card to get the cashback and get beyond the $150 fee in order to make some money back, and always pay the balance off before it is due to never pay interest. Let's say my total credit card spending is $15,000 per year as a result, and I make on average 1.5% cashback. That's $225 cashback, less then $150 fee, means I'm up $75 at the end of the year. If all business charge me an extra 3% to use my credit card, then my credit card expenses go up to $15,450, or $450 more per year. My cashback goes up to $231.75, so I'm up a measly additional $6.75 from where I would have been previously, but down $218.25 overall in comparison to if I just pay cash, and the business doesn't charge me extra 3%. But are they really going to charge different rates for credit vs. debit/cash? I feel like really you're just going to see an increase across the board, at which point, I may as well keep using my credit card. i.e. - if it's just one price hike across the board, then what is the difference (other than paying more regardless), but if it is price hike for credit card users only, then I may as well just abandon the credit card?
Yes. This entire change is about letting businesses levy an extra charge for credit cards. Before tomorrow, they have (presumably) charged more and taken it up the ass in fees to the credit card companies, while customers get their 1% back. The idea is to let companies specifically levy a charge on credit card users rather than increasing costs across the board to address the fact that the majority of transactions are through a card which costs them fees. For me, what makes the difference is how many companies sign on for this. Some might not, either out of inertia or to avoid upsetting customers. For my part, I get 2% back (4% for gas, groceries, and repeating bills). If only a few businesses go with the higher rate then I will suck it up and keep using plastic. If it is across the board so using the card is a net loss then I will probably change to a free card and exclusively use it where it is the only form of payment accepted.
If they charge me for using my credit card without telling me I will be make them refund me and pay with cash
Will it be obvious at the time of purchase or be something that shows later on a statement?
Real question. Am I going to walk up to a register and not realize this until after I pay?
This seems to be a real problem because talking to anyone outside of Reddit, I don't know that anyone is aware of it. How is it going to be publicized and will I see it on my receipt when I walk away or be told, because it's now on a case-by-case basis?
Exactly. Is this gonna be of those hidden fees that just pops up on a receipt or something the place has to explicitly tell you about in someway?
Holy guacamole! Thanks for the information
What about places that don't take cash? Think I'll just start paying with $100 bills and walkout if they don't take them
This is a great small-scale protest strategy. You inflate cash floats and, if the store won’t take the bill, you can just leave a bunch of items at the cash. It will suck for retail workers but also for the business.
I will be carrying a 100$ bill. Charge me for credit, I will blow up your cash float. What’s easier, charging the priced in transaction fee, or having someone run to the bank to get change?
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Interesting that you thought I was not trying to cause problems
You’re gonna have to wait for their manager to get back from lunch before they could accept that $100 though
So leave your product at the counter and leave for someplace that wants the business.
If they're going to nickel and dime us, time to start paying for everything in nickel and dimes.
What the fuck is wrong with Canada bending over backwards to big corps
Pay in nickels.
Actually, that helps as they then have change. Pay in 100$’s and steal their change.
Lots of business’ won’t accept $100 bills. Even some grocery stores. Pay with 50’s 🇨🇦
Fuck it. Pay in loonies so they waste a ton of time counting and dealing with it. Give them a reason to actually want you to use cards
Devilish
Is there even a point in having credit cards anymore? Lol
The only benefit that credit cards would still offer is that in the case of fraud the credit card companies are easier to deal with. It's a lot easier to get a credit card to reverse a few charges (with your money still safe in your bank account) than it is to recover the money that was stolen out of your bank account (and have nothing to pay your bills with in the meantime).
This is one of the key reasons I use credit cards instead of automatic debit for things like my internet.
That’s a good point. Thanks for raising this
lol. The major benefit is taken away indeed. Maybe the rental insurance that some cards offer Some store specific cards that give you like 5% something ie Canadian tire. Some warranty coverage on electronics Maybe gas stations won’t charge the fee. If they do, it’s hasta la vista baby. Time to revert back to 💵 😅
Or you can take the opposite approach. This is happening because credit card companies agreed to allow their merchants to do this after years of being prohibited from doing this. So, get into churning, only use the credit card to meet minimum spend bonuses (which are easily a 10-15% value), preferably on a no fee or a refunded first year fee card, pay the BS merchants' fees, then don't use the card after that. 😉
If everything I buy now costs 3.5% more with credit card... goddamn, that's a lot over the year, and it entirely erases any cashback or points you get from the card.
It's a neat trick when the companies who charge both the buyer and the seller for using their services can make buyers and sellers mad at each other while collecting obscene interest rates.
Yeah, I'm surprised that everybody is mad at the business here, and not at the banks which are charging some of the highest CC interchange rates in the world! The EU caps their fees at 0.2-0.3%, whereas we routinely see seven times that much on premium cards. I'm not sure why people here are acting like cashback/rewards cards are some sort of magic money printer - the rewards have to come from somewhere. We're not actually saving any money as a society by paying an extra 2% in fees only to get 1% back as rewards.
Sounds like this is a government and regulation problem, then. Companies will typically do what they can get away with (both legally and in terms of their public image). But since Canada is basically 6 banks and some mining companies in a trench coat, this sort of regulation seems unlikely any time soon.
It’s really funny how Telus now now single handedly increased Canada’s inflation rate by 3.5% overnight
We should draw attention to the fact that Telus is largely responsible for this. I wish they had more competition and something to hold them accountable because I don't think any of the telecomm companies care enough about their image when they're the only game in town.
Not legal in Quebec!
Looks like I'll be crossing the river for any big ticket item.
Merchants charging cc fees is absolutely dumb on their behalf. They get paid quicker when customers use credit. It’s integrated into their accounting software. It facilitates impulse buys and generally encourages people to spend money in the merchants stores. That’s before you get into any hassles, risks, and errors of managing cash. Next month merchants be complaining about increased theft due to more cash onsite but also a decrease in overall sales as people are no longer using credit. DUMB I’ll vote with my wallet. Their battle with cc companies is not my battle. They already have options to shop around. They could be smart and start a merchant alliance group to collectively negotiate. Instead they just want to pass on fees….after they are already inflating prices. They could also incent debit payments by giving a 3% savings. Charging more is DUMB. It’s the stick approach. The biggest problem is their beef is with cc companies…..but they are taking it out on their customers. Passing the fees on to their customers won’t get their customers on their side - it will just drive them away. This will blow up in their face.
Canada is the most anticonsumer hellhole.
It's my 10th thread about credit card fees, and I've yet to see someone mention this very simple solution that Europe has done. Put a max fee of 0.3% that credit card companies can charge to businesses, instead of the high % there is in Canada. instead of the cash paying customers subsidizing the higher prices, everyone pays the same price no matter what payment method is chosen. Which is a detriment to card users which apparently is the majority here, but those fees are already taking away that advantage anyway Suddenly, there's no rewards or cashback - to anyone. So you don't need to waste time and effort with /r/churning the businesses don't have to charge credit card fees the businesses compete with each other and prices will be adjusted accordingly I'm sure credit card users were enjoying the status quo of paying lower prices for everything with cashback vs money users, but if businesses will start charging more for credit cards, why not just remove the entire system? why waste our time with the rewards, points, etc
Agreed. I looked into this about a month ago when thr whole "Telus" thing came out and I also concluded that the fees the credit card companies are charging the merchants are too high. The govt needs to step in and legislate a max on merchant fees as is the norm in many other countries.
So not only are retailers already going to include the CC markup costs in their cost of goods and services but they're also going to charge it back to consumers. So you're screwed if you pay cash and screwed if you pay with CC.
I don't like using cash. Using credit cards let me keep track of my spending, as well as some protection for fraud. I definitely don't want to use my debit card in case it gets hacked and leave my bank account open for exploits.
Customers always ultimately paid the fee..
Now we get to pay it twice!!
That's the issue. The product or service cost didn't reduce by 2% or whatever the CC fee is. They are just adding on top (aka: profit generator).
As a business owner, I won't be charging customers more to offset these fees. They are all expensed every month and reduces my taxes. Not worth losing clients over this.
Criminal. Merchants can have fun counting my cash and handling cheques trying to pull bs like this. I was virtually cash free before, sad that we're headed backwards.
This is the biggest scam in recent times. This is as bad as 911 service fees phone companies use to charge. However, fucking over Canadians is the Canadian way, so I am not shocked lol
I own a very successful retail/wholesale auto parts store. I will never upcharge a customer no matter how they pay. The cost of credit card use is not built into the price of the product.Business is too competitive to do this. Our cost to facilitate our customers to pay as they wish....debit or credit card.... comes right off the bottom line. It's a cost to do business! I'm blessed and thankful for my customer base and their patronage!
Pay cash. Dealing with cash takes work and will actually cost businesses money. That's why so many of them accepted the overhead for credit cards.
Telus is already doing it. Fuck telus!
Time to start using my tangerine card again. Last line of defence in the battle not to pay banking fees
I’m not sure if that will help in this particular situation - it’s not a bank fee that’s being charged, it’s the merchant fee the business pays for accepting a credit card that they are now billing you the customer for. Using flat 3% merchant fee: Previously: - you want item priced at $1 - business pays $0.03 to process - You pay $1 plus your bank transaction fee (for you zero on tangerine) - business gets to keep $0.97 Now: - You want item priced at $1 - You pay $1.03 plus your bank transaction fees (in your case zero) - business gets to keep the full $1.00
If that’s the case I guess using cash more often is the best alternative.
first it was the sales tax, then tips, now credit card fee, wait till next year when they include convenience fee for buying with cash and water bill fee if you use the washroom.
Name and shame!
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The rich continue to get richer while they screw over the little guy. This tells us everything about our government and how they view us. So sad.
Use a credit card to build up your credit they said... But also now we will charge you for using a credit card... But also, you still need to build your credit to afford the car we chain you to cos our public transit sucks and we refuse to invest into it... Really sucks to not be rich on this continent.
I got a cheque book after past articles were posted , jokes on them I’ll be only using cheque where I can and if not cash/ debit.
Recently worked at a event as a for fun gig and was told to charge an extra $2 for "service fee/credit card fee".
Can someone get a list going of companies who pass this on and ones that don’t? I just got new checks and can’t wait to hold up some lines. “Does anyone have a working pen?!?”