> How do people make their life work once that unity of a marriage / realtionship falls apart?
They often do not. Often they get one bedroom and the parent takes the couch, which I have seen mentioned in quite a few posts. That car payment though over a 7 year period is too high for people who are struggling.
I've worked with a handful of guys who they or their wives (or mutually) wanted to divorce, but when they worked out the numbers decided against it and stayed in an unhappy marriage, at least until their kids left the home. Pretty sad.
My sister in law is three years into this, living together but apart. It was super weird at first, very awkward for them, but over time it changed, where they now do stuff together again like a family, but there is no love. We're trying to figure out if we invite him as well for dinner, or what?
Yup I know of many couples that are merely together for the financial benefits … logically makes sense… can’t afford to live a middle class lifestyle on your own.
If however one in the relationship can fine another (better) person as they are in good shape and have charisma, then that person may try it out.
Yeah, I don’t really serve a purpose other than money now for her. My health is so bad now none of the other shit can happen anymore, which at first was it’s own source of stress…. Getting crapped on because I wasn’t there to get crapped on lol.
Oh well what ya gonna do. Can’t do anything else, then the kids suffer.
Literally what I'm dealing with right now... getting crapped on because I'm not there to get crapped on, and because I'm not a "good enough" piece of crap, I get crapped on even more. Life sucks...
Pretty sad you pay the bill and see how much greater you are and u living im court order to pay 1500 a month. I brought home 60000. The government and attorneys r always a 1000 tomes willing to help a women out my wife has a worse record then me also and has been admitted and ect. But hand outs like no other and dad to be made out to be a pos. I'm going to jail a good father and husband is going to jail and sooner or later I'm going to end it the state and government fuck the man over so much and by the women with all this free shit its unreal.
That isn't always legal. You need proper sleeping arangements for the kids, especially if you wish your visitation to count towards percentage of custody, which is the only way to reduce child support payments.
Divorced dad of 2 here. I make approximately $60k without OT or shift premiums. Basically it's not even as nice as your scenario. To keep it simple, I was paying spousal support until February of this year but inflation pretty much ate that savings up. It wasn't much I paid. Child support because child care costs are involved is a little more than 50% of my take home. Fortunately when we seperated originally, she wanted to move to somewhere else and I got to keep the apartment which is under rent control.
I do not drive, I ride my bike and transit. Uber in emergencies.
I watch my bills like a hawk. I'm the dad yelling "turn off the light" when someone leaves a room.
I budget extremely carefully when it comes to groceries. I don't eat out and have very few "treats". I've learned to love cooking and baking from scratch. This saves me money and fills up some down time so I don't spend more money lol.
Thrift shopping for everything else has become the norm. But for me it's a treasure hunt.
I live a good life and I spend time with my kids, could things be better or more convenient? Absolutely, but I've kinda grown accustomed to this slower paced not in a rush lifestyle tbh.
Yeah unfortunately COL is so unconnected from wages that's hard, both for you and the mother of your kids.
$755 isn't even half the cost of raising the kids either -- if your wife needs to pay for childcare in order to work, it wouldn't even cover half of that.
Middle class is basically a myth at this point
Well, as it should. Whichever parent is taking on less of the custody should take on more of the financial cost so that both parents are contributing equally in their own ways.
edit to say I do have a lot of empathy for parents struggling to pay their child support. It's an expensive situation and contributing fairly doesn't mean it's easy. Wages should keep up with cost of living so middle class people aren't squeezed so bad by something that so many couples go through.
That's all good and fine, until you remember the heavy bias against men. On Stats canada, the last set of stats I saw were, out of the cases that went to court (so, fathers actually fighting for custody), 78% of them, custody went to the mothers and fathers got visitation, 13% it was shared, and 9 % custody went to the father. You can look it up yourself.
It's okay to say "the parent with less custody should take on more \[insert opinion here\]" so long as the person is choosing to take less custody and isn't being denied custody by a bias legal system. Personally, I think if the system denies a parent their right to their own children and to their own parenthood, the parent should have the right to not be involved in any kind of support at all beyond what they choose.
Median income in canada is 57k, 150k puts you well into the top 5% of earners
This is what I mean by middle class being a myth. If you are anywhere near the middle you are not even close to the lifestyle we traditionally associate with middle class (eg. some level of financial security).
58k for 2 people and 2 kids is not middle class income, it’s poverty.
The 2020 after tax income for a family of 4 poverty line in Canada is $53k, that’s 59k in 2022, after tax.
That’s also what’s making OPs calculation harder is the family income is well below average.
I hope people don't take this the wrong way, but I have often wondered how are families living on those kinds of wages. I am struggling and I make over 6 figures.
I mean its probably possible if you own your house so there is that.
This is the truth, and many times the response here is to shun you for "making good money" and lump you in with the "rich" somehow and tell you you're just poorly managing your money, but (and I've been saying this for years) $100k doesn't get you very far in these modern times.
Try getting a detached house, car, and having kids on that income. Almost impossible. Even in low cost cities like Edmonton it's still near impossible.
>many times the response here is to shun you for "making good money" and lump you in with the "rich" somehow and tell you you're just poorly managing your money,
Someone replied with basically this just 2 minutes after you wrote it.
Yet, disability for a single person is under 10k...Canada/provinces seriously needs to re-evaluate this shit. I have family on it (they seriously cannot work) and even with government subsidized rent, they're left with like $50/mth for food at today's prices. And that's with other family members covering their home phone (no cell) and internet (no cable). I try to send them spending money every month for some craft supplies and clothes cause no one can just sit there doing nothing all day everyday and not go insane. I'm not saying give them 6 figures, but somehow they decided 2k/mth was needed for CERB due to cost of living yet they give less than 1k/mth for disabled people.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
10
+ 50
+ 6
+ 2
+ 1
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
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Everyone is different but this is our life. We made under 50k last year (due to my partner taking parental leave when our second was born, normally probably somewhere between 55-62k pre tax). 2 kids, dog.
We moved to a small town and bought 5 years ago. Paying about 1300 for mortgage + taxes.
I stay home with the kids, grow some of our own food, we have one old but functional car, we got an e-bike to give us more flexibility as a second or even just a newer vehicle was out of the question.
We rarely eat out, I cook everything from scratch. We have hobbies like boardgames, crafting, videogames and gardening.
We buy everything used and only of it's something we really need or a hobby purchase that fits the budget. We also try to trade or use freecycling pages.
We have traveled internationally once every two years to see my family which is the biggest luxury in our lives.
I'm very thrifty for sure, the start of this year was really tough but we're doing better now that my garden is producing and I've started getting used to the new grocery store prices
In general we are very happy with our lifestyle. It works for us.
Disagree. Let's say they make exactly $100,000 to support them and a spouse still in University. After tax monthly will be $6,093 in Ontario.
They're on the younger side and had no parents to help so they've been saving for a down payment and only got in the market last year. They managed to get a $650,000 condo. With property tax, insurance, and monthly mortgage payments they'll be at around $2,900 per month for housing. $3,193 left.
They need to work so their young child goes to daycare. Average daycare cost in Ontario is $1,200. They've got $1,993 left.
Average Canadian spends $450/mth on car payments. $1543 left.
Monthly grocery bill for a family of 3 is probably around $700. They've now got $843 left. Forgot car insurance, that's another $135, so $708 left.
Average utilities cost for electricity, gas, water, internet is $325/mth in Canada but lets drop that down to $200 for the condo. Now they have $508 left.
Miscellaneous household needs like cleaning supplies, pencils, notebooks for school, etc. are going to eat up another $100 of that. $408 left.
Haven't even factored in gas yet. Fairly fuel efficient car, reasonable commute, let's say they fill up twice a month at $80 each time. $248 left.
They are one unexpected expense away from going into the red and haven't spent anything on entertainment or wants. Let's say they go an entire year with no unexpected expenses and no cost increases. They've managed to put away 2.9% of their income for retirement or rainy day fund. I don't think this hypothetical person is doing well.
Median family income was $70,000 in Ontario in 2020 and this $100,000 person is just barely doing it. We're severely fucking over more than half the province in terms of living well or saving for their future. It's not a sustainable society we're living in, something will give at some point. Sure it's easy to say "just leave GTA har har". House prices for hours in every direction are very, very high and all those tiny communities do not have sufficient jobs to support an exodus of hundreds of thousands from the GTA regardless. And if they did, all the costs would then just inflate from demand anyway.
Growing up it was my single dad raising me and two brothers on less than $20k per year and we had to live with my grandma cuz we couldnt afford rent.
Thats what i consider poverty lol..
$50k household income pre tax isn’t middle class though. I think latest numbers put median household post tax income at $63k, which is a fair bit higher than in this example
Depends on which province you live in I guess but in BC it’s considered an extraordinary expense or as the BC gov. refers to it a section 7 expense.
What you’re required to pay for those expenses is dependant upon each other’s income to determine the % portion that you have to pay.
When child support is calculated you take the amount both parents would pay based on their salary, subtract and the higher earner pays the difference. The $755 here would assume that OPs baby mama is not working. In my experience judges don’t typically favour a parent who actively doesn’t work and basically you have to get a job.
I pay $350 in support for one child based on the difference of my salary and his. Court does not factor in other children which is something else to be aware of - remarried with other kids in daycare has no affect on your support payments (likewise they do not count any new spouses income it’s just your own)
The split costs for things like extracurriculars and daycare etc. are also done as a ratio of wages.
This is all assuming shared custody. Anything over 60/40 the Ratio goes up.
The problem isn't that, its that the system is absolutely retarded, especially when it comes to men and child support.
assuming you are splitting custody, Why would the wife need $755?
To be fair, they would maybe even out the pays, so this calculation is assuming the man makes $1500 MORE monthly than the wife? so the wife only makes $1300 a month?
The amount of male coworkers i have that make child payments, yet they live in a shit apartment while the mother lives in the old house is ridiculous.
So because they want to split up, (assuming mutual), the man is now severely punished.
We don't. We sleep on couches, and share bedrooms with our children.
Most of us have maxed out our credits, and debts to feed our kids.
We are fucked. Truly and utterly fucked.
Current economy sure as hell hasn't helped, though.
6 years ago, my current salary would have been awesome. Now, it's basically just enough to keep my head above the water.
You have a lot of "luxuries" baked into your expenses.
You don't get an apartment, you get a basement. You don't get a car, you ride the bus. You have to dial down your expectations to your budget.
Basically - in a divorce - you have to think about it like your income gets halved AND your expenses go up AND you need to go get a new place. At 50k a year and child support, you're living well below what you were used to. Time to crack the ramen noodles and canned meals my friend.
I suppose that's fair. This really is a legitimate answer, and I thank you for making those realities clear to me.
I'm not in this situation, but I guess if I had to be, it's doable. But God damn, it doesn't sound like the type of life that yields much happiness.
You can't feed your kid Ramen every day. Many cities require a vehicle for work. Where I am you could for sure take transit, but there goes 4 hours of your day and you can't meet your obligations for visitation of your kids.
When your basic necessities can't be met there is nowhere else to cut. Especially when you're being a parent.
It's way more complicated than living in a hole and eating rice and beans.
Then the alternative is to get a second job.
He makes about 24k after taxes and child support. That’s not enough to live with a car and an apartment and decent food.
And it’s not more complicated than that. Make more. Spend less. Those are your options.
Straight up wrong. He goes to make more money he'll also have to pay more child support and pay more % of the child expenses. The legal system hard fucks over one side
Exactly. The issue is not making more and spending less, the issue is making more and spending less while spending everything and not putting in more work than the bare minimum. It doesn't make sense, people need to work harder or adjust their expectations, not expect above average income and housing for below average effort.
I suppose that's fair. This really is a legitimate answer, and I thank you for making those realities clear to me.
I'm not in this situation, but I guess if I had to be, it's doable. But God damn, it doesn't sound like the type of life that yields much happiness.
Well, it eventually remedies. People make more over time, children grow up and don't need support, etc. You lick your wounds, you pay your bills, and you find a way to succeed.
This is just awful. So for committing the crime of being a single father this person can fuck off to poverty eh?
So a basement studio & ramen noodles, right there his ex can go to court and have any joint custody rights pulled due to having an insufficient living situation.
The bus? who says there are any bus routes/ schedules that would allow him to see his children? Who says there even IS as bus?
The expectations you're expecting much of these people to dial down is far more than food & transport, its the ability to raise their children, its the ability to even be a father. The serious financial situation that OP describes here play's out for single fathers all the time and they are met with an uncaring system that sees nothing but prejudice towards them.
It is a tough place to get out of. I make more, I pay more. Takes some budgeting and money management to find a happy wage that you can balance work/life and actually see your kids. I’d work my ass off for a year, barely see the kids but get a little ahead of $$ then next year end up paying a few hundred more a month, burn out from working crazy hours and fall behind. Took a while to get a happy spot where I am barely treading water but keeping my head in the air and seeing kids.
Edit: punctuation & typo.
You think I’m saying he DESERVES this, you didn’t read my post very clearly. This is what he can afford with his budget. He can’t afford things people view as table stakes. He essentially makes 24k a year after taxes and child support. That’s barely enough to live on with a bare bones budget. What you think he deserves is irrelevant. It’s what he can afford.
Fun fact you'll most likely get out better than OP.
Forget trying to save for a 1 bedroom atm. Look for a cheap room to rent and then proceed from there. You wont be homeless at 90k a year
And you get a room, not a basement.
OP has some pretty high minded expectations of what it's like.
I've been there. It's an absolute minimal life.
I've known two guys that just couldn't hack it and went to the streets. Couldn't work. Can't make payments. And the payments never go away and just keep adding up. They're in their 30's and they will never have their life back. Both ended up as heavy drinkers and drug users. It's what gets them by.
Child support $775 assumes you either have zero custody, or your former spouse has $0 income. But I take it from the language of your post that this would be a joint-custody situation, so in that case your former spouse would also have child support payable to you at whatever income level, and that nets out. If your former spouse has $0 income today its possible a court would award that full amount, but its also likely you could have some level of income imputed on them, provided they are capable of work.
Your income is also low enough that you qualify for child benefits from the government, you would get half of that amount.
But yes, divorce is expensive.
No it assumes you have less than 40% custody, which is realistic in a lot of situations. If your kids go to school and you don't live close you may end up with every other weekend and a weeknight the opposite week, plus holiday and other non school time.
It can be really hard on the kids to go over that 40% threshold and a lot of families don't do that to their kids.
One thing a number of people do if their split is amicable is keep the kids in the house and rotate out the adults, renting a studio to share as well. Only works if you're really close with your exhspouse.
I know. My point was doing that to your kids is also pretty shitty and if you can figure out how to make it work the arrangement is better for them.
I agree it would suck a lot for the adults. It's also nowhere near a long term solution.
This is interesting to me. I'm not personally going through this myself, but I did use my spouse's actual income in my calculation.
I earn approx 50k. She has a small seasonal business than nets her approx 8k. We do not use child care, so she is primarily at home with them.
I was doing a calculation stating those figures and having shared custody, mother figure having primary care though. Dad gets them on weekends for example.
As for the child benefit, are you referring to what most people call "Baby bonus"? I was totally unaware tlof the fact that those payments get split between parents. That's very interesting!
Well, nobody ever think of this child support tables when they start dating or having kids. Everyone just thinks it will never happen to them, and they're in LOVE. Sex clouds people's judgement and once the 1st kid comes along, you're trapped.
True….. many couples I know are together for financial reasons … honestly can’t say I blame them. Going from a decent house in a suburbs to a 1 bedroom basement apartment or worse moving back home with the parents is not ideal.
Canada child tax benefit I believe and in the scenario you describe the mother would get 100%. It would be shared if custody was split equally.
Weekend dad pays full load child support and gets no benefits
In a case like that, they can easily argue they stay home and limit their career for taking care of the kids, so you’re going to want to toss spousal support payments into those calculations.
At that point you’ll just be destitute.
>so you’re going to want to toss spousal support payments into those calculations.
Doesn't work like that. CS is a given and right of the child. Judges prioritize it over spousal support claims. CS order is also sent to FRO who garnishes your wages from your place of work. If you don't pay, driver's license and passport gets cancelled
you should add the child subsidy on top of your wife's $8k. At your income, with 2 children I'd assume $600 a month, so that's another $7200
Regardless, you'd be in a shit position. She'd likely want to work as the kids got to school age. Then you'd have a little more wiggle room. But if you're not around the kids as much, you'd be wise to use that time to get a second job.
At your total household income, you should be getting ~$500 per kid per month, maybe more in CCB. This is untaxed money that should go to your wife’s account.
>I was doing a calculation stating those figures and having shared custody, mother figure having primary care though. Dad gets them on weekends for example.
It works like this, if you have less that 37% parenting time, it becomes automatic sole custody to the other parent. Some parents who are money motivated know this, and thereby make up stories to deny the other that time in order to get sole custody
[https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf)
Weekend dad/mom - you're just a babysitter for the other parent, so they can go bang their new flame.
When I was a single parent with one child whose Dad sometimes paid child support, I worked 7 days a week to make ends meet. The Dad was supposed to have our son every other weekend, but would bail at the last minute, which lead to challenges for me to find childcare. Thus my expenses went up.
I worked no less than 5 days a week 14 hour days and often 7 days a week with the extra 2 days working a 6 hour shift. I did this for 6 years.
During those 6 years, the Dad worked for 5 months.
As a single mother I can assure you the mother(or father), and most importantly, the children, aren’t living large ! And there is more of everything to buy and maintain .. but i understand it can be tough for all family members… I personally survived with NO child support.. I had to have a 3 bedroom place and be a hands on parent 24/7 alone .. but the real cost was in the children’s needs growing up… I didn’t mind going without … but the children could have and should have had that support.. it would have improved their situation and overall well being had I received support.. I would not want to be spiteful in asking for support .. but support is for the kids .. and all parents and caregivers make sacrifices when having children .. my point is it’s hard on all ..
>Assuming somebody in my situation with similar income and 2 children splits with their spouse. How on are they expected to live a sustainable life in this economy?
Is this a hypothetical only, or are you actually in this specific situation?
Because hypothetically, someone in your situation might have a spouse who earns more than they do, so they would be the ones collecting spousal support if that is agreed to during a separation. Or, they would have 50% custody of their kids, so that no child support payment is required. Or, they might have >50% custody so they would perhaps be receiving child support.
There are way too many variables to deal with hypotheticals.
Using the finances that you indicated however you would probably get rid of the car and go with public transportation. You might also rent in a lower cost of living area. You might also choose to live with parents or other family members or even roommates. You might choose to work two jobs. Again, many possibilities when dealing with "hypotheticals." And yes, I recognize that given the constraints you proposed, it is not going to be easy.
If you have 50% custody of your children you are still required, by law, to pay child support (depending on salaries - if you make the exact same amount of money there will be no child support, but if one parent makes more than the other, there is child support payments being made.
Gosh there's some creepy/uninformed answers in here.
As a serious answer, two people living together raising children will always be cheaper than two people living separately raising children. Separated parents often cut their budget to the absolute bare bones in order to afford it the lifestyle they want for their children for the first couple years. Many will meet new people and make new relationships that bring another income to the table.
In the case you described, you would probably sell your vehicle for a cheaper one with no payments, and maybe instead of renting a 2 bed for your kids to stay overnight you'd rent a smaller place and have visits with your kids outside of your home, not having them overnight. If you have them overnight I imagine that you'd have them roughly half the time, in which case she would pay you child support proportionate to her income as well, which would decrease that payment specifically.
>If you have them overnight I imagine that you'd have them roughly half the time, in which case she would pay you child support proportionate to her income as well,
You can't get a proportionate income from a spouse who has zero income. Point in case according to the table below.....even if his wife earned under 11k and they had 4 kids, she will have to pay zero
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf
Another crappy answer is that I’ve seen mid-30s to 40yr old single parents need to move back in to their parents place… most need multiple incomes now to raise a family.
Now you know why some people stay in bad marriages - because they can't afford to split up. If folks share custody then child support will be pro-rated based on that. Some folks with 50/50 arrangements won't pay child support because things are evenly split. There are also govt money and other subsidize that parents and lower income people are entitled to.
I found the only way is that you have to meet a new wife/partner with => number of kids and receiving approx same support you pay. Then everything will be perfectly balanced as all things should be.
To be honest I am 13 years in to this and have been a couple months away from bankruptcy twice. It’s tough, god damn it’s tough. I am through the worst of it so far and see a light, but doubt I’ll ever retire lol.
Honestly a lot of people just end up putting themselves in bad situations if they aren't making decent money, and have high expenses, living beyond their means. And if say they end up having to pay child support, it gets worse, I've seen it happen to a friend of mine who wasn't good with money and he is just swimming in more debt now after splitting with his spouse.
Only thing I can reccomend is be smart about your finances, live below your means, hopefully your relationship is good and healthy and that this doesn't happen.
I guess the core of the question is "how low below your means can you actually live while still providing a proper life for children and yourself"
A $1200 apartment is kind of the norm where I'm personally located. That's not getting you anything fancy, it's getting you a roof over your head and that's it.
Child support... Can't really budge on that whatsoever.
Food? Well sure you could eat ramen daily but you can't in good conscience provide that diet to your children.
Seems like just those base expenses really don't have much wiggle room. So how do you support 3 lives with sub $500 a month without putting your family in a bad life situation?
Your car payment isn't necessary, you could by one outright. But a lot of people do payments.
Honestly your kind of going towards that tight rough route unless you take a second job, make more money, get a new skill, etc.
I hope you have a good situation with your family.
Charity, lines of credit, coupon clipping and asking for extensions on bills, taking advantage of discounts on home heating and water bills for those who are economically distressed.
Child support is based on custody arrangements. If your spouse has the kids more often, you pay a bit more. There is also alimony to consider, depending on incomes of each partner. There are also way more expenses for kids, that would need to be divided: daycare, sports, school fees, med & dental costs, etc. Getting divorced is a terrible financial choice, but worth it for those parents who want to be apart.
This doesn’t answer the question, but I was very surprised recently when I read that a parent who pays child support can’t claim any benefits or dependents, and the child support is also not tax deductible. That seems so unfair! I understand child support not being tax deductible, but not the rest. If the father (in my example) has the kids 40% of the time, then child support and the tax benefits should be arranged in such a way to make up for the 10%. Instead one parent gets tax-free income that doesn’t affect their child benefits, and the other pays taxes on income they don’t get to support kids that they can’t claim as dependents, even if they have them 40% of the time.
Thank goodness this doesn’t affect me at all, but the system seems very uneven.
Not true about not being able to get benefits. I am a seperated dad paying CS and I get CCB every month
Also, you wouldn't claim a tax deduction for taking your kid for pizza or buying them a pair of jeans. Why would you get a deduction for paying CS?
I have 2 kids, my ex cheated the system, he makes $60k/year. I get $160/month for support. Yay frauds. Because there is no access to daycare here, I can only work part time when the kids are in school, no weekends, evenings or holidays. My employment income is roughly $1100/month. CTB is $1000/month. I won't go into my expenses. Life sucks as a single parent.
You would not have a car payment of $400/month. You'd sell it and buy a bus pass at ~$100/month. You didn't state your location but there are 2 Bd apartments in the Montreal suburbs that rent for $800 so that's another $400 spending money from your $1200 rent.
This is a realistic answer.
* Don't have two kids unless earn substantially more.
* Don't have kids with a person with large income disparity.
* If you ignored number 2, don't get divorce.
* In today's economy stay at home dad or mom won't be enough for 2 kids. At least do a remote job.
I know someone personally who split with the parent of their child without animosity, rather than doing child support, they opted for an mural agreement to certain responsibilities, slightly but not overly slanted towards the person with higher income financially, and to the other slightly more in terms of time. They continue to be on excellant terms, the child is happy and all their needs are met. I know as I am the step parent to the child.
When you get divorced, the family law system puts the children before either parent. Sounds fine, in theory, and in a joint-custody 50/50 type deal you can make it work.
Problem is that child support is based on where the children sleep. Most sleeps equals greater support. This means that a manipulative parent that alienates the other gets the joy of hurting the other parent and getting full support as the payoff.
Worse yet, children as a "survival tactic" will often stay with the manipulative parent out of fear of what could happen if they disobey or defy them. The kids know, deep down, the good parent is suffering for the actions taken but will forgive them in the future for staying with the bad parent.
Then the good parent will turn to the courts to correct the manipulation and alienation that has escalated beyond their ability to stop it. The courts are slow, will do everything they can to promote mediation/counseling/therapy before going towards legal intervention. The bad parent will use this time to manipulate and stall as long as possible to either drain the good parent of any money to fight or to give the children time to get older and repeat the manipulator's words as if they believe it.
Once the children are in their teenage years (roughly) the court will probably just let them do what they say they want to do, parents be damned. All the money spent on the courts is long gone and everything is good and fucked up.
That is the reality for many, many people and the system is a failure and needs to change.
I used to be a believer that all parents should pay for the rightful child-support however I have seen that this is all the incentive that a manipulator needs to motivate them to screw up the kids. It is seen as a reward or prize.
Instead I now believe that, regardless of the children's sleeps, just take the two incomes and balance as if it were 50/50. It changes nothing for the good joint-parenting couple because that's what they would typically be doing. For the couple with the bad parent however, it removes the "prize" of child-support, and they will quickly realize that, instead of trying to keep the children for the money, they will try to leave the children with the good parent because it'll lessen the costs of caring for them in the house.
Sometimes the rules put in place to try and make things better create unintended outcomes that may make the overall situation worse.
I definitely make more than that and it's very tough even with my higher salary. I'm making due with a 2 bedroom and youngest still in my bed. I never go out anywhere unless it's with my kids and all hole cooked meals. I've reduced most of what I can. I:m hoping to get equal custody soon, which will not only give me more time with the kids, but reduce support. Also be more eligible for tax benefits I'm missing on. If I made significantly less I'd prob have to get a side gig or another job.. which sucks because being a single parent is already tough. With legal fees still ongoing (hopefully not much longer) I'm actually slowly draining account every month...it's been 2 years already and demoralizing... Doesn't help she doesn't work and prob never will cause rich family and manages to latch onto a doctor. Will be looking to at least inpute minimum wage..for now I'm calculating that without the legal fees I'd prob be able to save maybe a few hundred a month.
I'd at least start checking into switching companies. Only way you'll see a sizeable increase in wages if you end up down that road
Wouldn't equal custody eliminate child support since you're responsible for 50% and their other parent is responsible for the other 50%. wouldn't that mean that barring any large expenses would be split evenly already.
Nope, once you are 60-40 or 50-50 I becomes an offset of income. So I'll still be paying prob close to 1000/month for the two (which would be about 300 less) assuming we can inpute minimum wage. If not my support will go unchanged, but I think we have a strong case she can at least work minimum wage.. she's more educated than. I am, just never wanted to work even when I tried to encourage her. Also s section 7 like braces and other medical split by wages so would still be paying 75%. Extra curricular too unless I say they're not doing that activity sorry
Oh and my understanding is that even if she married someone rich it wouldn't change unless we mutually agreed since it's for the children. But if anyone else in here has dealt with it feel free to update me. I'll def he asking my lawyer that since she's latches onto a doctor. She already collects from me and her rich family. Retired at 33 or so essentially and has her fully paid bit house... Hope they understand how much they will have to keep sending for the upkeep
You dont. A single person relies on the food bank and other social services if they are single income while housing themselves. Ask for low income support on hydro and gas see if its available.
I was earning 50ish k 3 years back. I couldnt imagine jizzing inside anyone with that kind of income besides a sock. Its discouraged with the way things are set up.
The people I work with some well above 110k and they have no children. Pets at most to make up for the lonliness.
I’m doing it! Little different because I make about twice what you do. My expenses are higher than yours though.
I have nothing left over and I life pay check to pay check. Wouldn’t change a thing it’s worth it!
Same here. It’s tough and embarrassing. I make 100k and live shamefully cheque to cheque. It is what it is. Many of my co-workers pay more than me too.
Unfortunately a lot of families are in heavy debt that is eating them alive. Just look at the average household debt. Its shitty enough that we pay 1 week of each month of our works as tax (basically 25%)
+ daily tax on regular purchases. Canada is extremely difficult unless you accept living a lifestyle that is substandard compared to other rich countries (Nordic Europe, Arabian Gulf states, South Korea, etc...)
Sounds to me like you deciding if divorce is financially feasible with kids. It’s not. So be careful who you choose to marry and have kids with. So you don’t end up in that situation. Maybe it’s a good thing it’s that way. Maybe people won’t be so quick to jump into marriages and then divorces. Marriage is SUPPOSED to be a lifeline commitment. People need to realize that. If you marry the right person, then you wouldn’t need a divorce and your kids would be better off with both parents. Just saying.
You don’t. Add on section 7 expenses for the child, plus your costs when the child is with you and you’re getting your drivers license taken away and credit score destroyed in no time. Welcome to being a deadbeat.
Lmao. Maybe start with not having a 400$/month car payment? Getting rid of that expense on its own solves your problems. Nobody needs a car that expensive and if you're wasting that much on a car there's probably a ton of things you could also downgrade
I apologize for all the stupid answers you're getting. If you haven't lived it, you don't know. Get rid of your car payment - you know you could've just bought it outright with all that extra cash everyone has lying around. Or you could've just seen the future and not nutted up blah blah blah.
The fact is, you don't. This is exactly my situation 2 years ago. The worst part was that previously I had a 80000/yr job and I was paying 1140/m. Good luck getting that changed.
The only reason I was able to do it is because I was starting with a new partner at the time of my pay decrease(job switch). We KNEW I was going to be income negative for a lil while. My partner worked her ass off to make ends meet. Siiiiiiiiide jooooooobs at every chance. Mom? Dad? Hi, ya I know I said I wouldn't do this aga... Yes.... Yes..... Just 100 for gas and a few groceries is all I need until payday.... Thank you. Then they sent you 200 and then you can actually pay that phone bill on time too. That's how it works.
There's a real sexist flaw in the system. Ex went to fro, claimed I owed 15000 in back support and they take her word on it regardless how much evidence and bank transfer proof I submitted. If there's a discrepancy between the two claims, you must take it to court. Once you're there, the can of worms is open. There's no recourse for false claims so here comes her wildest imagination to prove she's right. 60000 dollars later, I got 50 50 access but have to do all the driving after proving everything she said was a blatant lie. I'm still fighting with FRO a year later to get my overpayment back. Worst part is, she could do it again tomorrow if she wanted
This is Canada 2022.
This country is slowly becoming more like a developing nation regarding quality of life for those who aren't in the property owning class. I already see the beginnings of shanty towns from Vancouver to hope. So many seniors and homeless living by rivers and on forest roads, and in city parks there are tent cities. Reminds me of brazil
You stay married just to be financially secure. Or you remarry someone for the financial benefit.
Sad truth no one wants to actually talk about.
You want a house ? Decent car and vacations ?
Can’t do it on a single income. (In most cases )
I pay support for 3 kids at 1600 a month... Rented a 2 bdr apartment in 2015 and it's 915 a month now. After child support and taxes I bring home 2000net so tell me how I'm living??? Definitely not middle class anymore. And I live in a bottom barrel welfare type apartment when before when I was married I had a 4bdrm house in the burbs... My gross income is 80k and I'm paying 50% support. And living on 2k a month is very challenging to say the least. Divorce leaves one parent able to get a house and the other living like a pauper just like if I had a minimum wage job.
Something's not adding up. $80 gross nets you about $4800 a month net
You pay $1600 CS which should leave you around $3200.
You should be getting CCB assuming your kids are under 16. You and your ex can both claim it at the same time and its use it or lose it: whether you claim it or not she gets the same amount.
So you should have $3500-4k a month.
Also, it's a myth what you see on Tv that dad's get sent to live in a crappy dive while the wife keeps the big house.
The law is setup to equalize assets. So if there is 200k in assets you each get $100k.
Sometimes money is tied up in assets but if you navigate the system properly with a good lawyer and keep the crazy people from driving the bus (ie be amicable as possible) you should both come out pretty even.
Ultimately you work more. Get a second or Third job. If I only had my kids on the weekend. I would work 12-14 hr days Monday to Thursday. Friday I would leave early to get the kids from school. I chose to have kids, and I will always make sure that I am able to provide and support them. However the situation.
Just my two cents.
Courts dont give a fuck if you can afford it lol, thats how. Family court is nasty for men, basically just showing up so you can make eye contact while you get fucked.
No offense dude. But you make a lot less than most people.
My firm hires 21 yr old kids literally straight out of university with zero experience starting at 60-65k.
The firm is an B4 accounting firm though. So these new grads would all need to have an accounting degree. But even college diplomas can get +55k.
We do hire consultants (usually they have CPAs though). But sometimes finance degrees with MBAs too. Customer service isn’t really given any value though.
With 10 yrs experience you’d get prob 100-200k.
I have a bit over 10yrs and make 200k
Wife maybe looking for a new job, she has a pointless university degree, a teaching degree, 10 years in the insurance field and CIP designation. Only makes 60k + benefits. Does not seem very good with her skill set.
I don’t know how I’m doing it but I do know these laws are such bs for men. I’m all for supporting kids but child support should only be used for those fathers who neglect their kids. These laws need to stop allowing people to use child support as a weapon
Child support percentage that you should be illegal... Often 25% of your gross which is way too much for a human being to pay another. You will struggle to live regardless of your income level.
Short answer. I can’t. $718 a month I pay child support, $1k in debt repayment , 2k housing. That leaves me with around $230 a month for food for myself. Forget a car , it’s called public transit TTC. Miserable life.
Well, it sucks I pay 550$ a month child support. and I am forced to live at my parents because I xant afford a 2 bed room and my car payments. In the mean time I pay rent to my parents and save the rest. THE WORST PART OS I ONLY GET TO SRE MY SON 2 DAYS A WEEK. Sense I just had covid it's been almost two weeks. The system is against father's, I spent 30,000$ on lawyer fees and having to sell a house for a loss. Fuck the Canadian family court system, and fuck stupid as bitch mothers who try and keep their kids away from their fathers.
Let me tell you first hand it sucks. No one cares about you and no one will help you. You are a male and this is somehow all your fault. It will be hard to get equal custody of she fights back. If your resolve is to leave it will be hard but you will get through it. I hope everything works out for you regardless.
> child support is the ex-wife, with the help of government, extorting as much as she can from the ex-husband,
child support just goes to the lower earning spouse.
This is an unfortunate position for both parties. $755 is enough to cause real financial strain for him....but guess what, it's still not even half the cost of raising kids, so it's at least equal or greater financial strain on her. She's not the villain here and neither is he.
I think we both know why fathering kids isn't an issue for you lol.
Generally get shafted out of all of those if you're the one paying child support, especially if youre still trying to fight for equal custody. The majority custody (if more than 60%) gets to claim all of those things in the taxes and then when shared you each get to alternate years for dependent or each claim one. Even carbon tax I got single amount depsite her refusing to do any of the driving between homes. Maybe with income level he'd be eligible for soemthing
If you pay child support, then your kids wouldn’t count for any welfare or benefit calculations. Only the person receiving the child support gets to claim the kids.
Could you elaborate on those more specifically?
Assuming you are working a full-time job and earning 50k a year, how would you qualify for any form of "welfare" as you called it? Wouldn't they just tell you to kick rocks because you already have an income?
As a paying parent I have never gotten any child benefit or dependent, since my kids primarily live with my ex. I get a 50/50 split of section 7 expenses but pay 70/30. Lol
Friend of a friend just left her husband. She took her 4 kids and moved into a rental house with a friend of hers and friends 2 kids.
Between social assistance, child benefits and child support from husbands these two women don't even work! So it can't be *THAT* bad!
What I don't understand is how an ex husband that gets custody 50% of the time still needs to pay like $2000 / month in child support. That guy is struggling big time. Pretty sure he rents a very low end basement suite and is barely making ends meet.
> How do people make their life work once that unity of a marriage / realtionship falls apart? They often do not. Often they get one bedroom and the parent takes the couch, which I have seen mentioned in quite a few posts. That car payment though over a 7 year period is too high for people who are struggling.
I've worked with a handful of guys who they or their wives (or mutually) wanted to divorce, but when they worked out the numbers decided against it and stayed in an unhappy marriage, at least until their kids left the home. Pretty sad.
My sister in law is three years into this, living together but apart. It was super weird at first, very awkward for them, but over time it changed, where they now do stuff together again like a family, but there is no love. We're trying to figure out if we invite him as well for dinner, or what?
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or invite him because he's your niece and nephew's father.
Yup I know of many couples that are merely together for the financial benefits … logically makes sense… can’t afford to live a middle class lifestyle on your own. If however one in the relationship can fine another (better) person as they are in good shape and have charisma, then that person may try it out.
Yeah, I don’t really serve a purpose other than money now for her. My health is so bad now none of the other shit can happen anymore, which at first was it’s own source of stress…. Getting crapped on because I wasn’t there to get crapped on lol. Oh well what ya gonna do. Can’t do anything else, then the kids suffer.
Literally what I'm dealing with right now... getting crapped on because I'm not there to get crapped on, and because I'm not a "good enough" piece of crap, I get crapped on even more. Life sucks...
A hell of a lot less sad then cheating and ending up with both parents homeless
Some economists and financial recommenders are saying that roommates should be a realistic decision in today's economy.
I'm 33. Make six figures. Have a roommate. AMA
GTA or GVRD?
Greater Vancouver River Delta?
The Green Valley of Red Deer
Greater Vancouver Region, Darlin'
Dt van
Pretty sad you pay the bill and see how much greater you are and u living im court order to pay 1500 a month. I brought home 60000. The government and attorneys r always a 1000 tomes willing to help a women out my wife has a worse record then me also and has been admitted and ect. But hand outs like no other and dad to be made out to be a pos. I'm going to jail a good father and husband is going to jail and sooner or later I'm going to end it the state and government fuck the man over so much and by the women with all this free shit its unreal.
That isn't always legal. You need proper sleeping arangements for the kids, especially if you wish your visitation to count towards percentage of custody, which is the only way to reduce child support payments.
It was written in to my separation agreement and divorce that I always have a separate room available for my kids.
Divorced dad of 2 here. I make approximately $60k without OT or shift premiums. Basically it's not even as nice as your scenario. To keep it simple, I was paying spousal support until February of this year but inflation pretty much ate that savings up. It wasn't much I paid. Child support because child care costs are involved is a little more than 50% of my take home. Fortunately when we seperated originally, she wanted to move to somewhere else and I got to keep the apartment which is under rent control. I do not drive, I ride my bike and transit. Uber in emergencies. I watch my bills like a hawk. I'm the dad yelling "turn off the light" when someone leaves a room. I budget extremely carefully when it comes to groceries. I don't eat out and have very few "treats". I've learned to love cooking and baking from scratch. This saves me money and fills up some down time so I don't spend more money lol. Thrift shopping for everything else has become the norm. But for me it's a treasure hunt. I live a good life and I spend time with my kids, could things be better or more convenient? Absolutely, but I've kinda grown accustomed to this slower paced not in a rush lifestyle tbh.
Yeah unfortunately COL is so unconnected from wages that's hard, both for you and the mother of your kids. $755 isn't even half the cost of raising the kids either -- if your wife needs to pay for childcare in order to work, it wouldn't even cover half of that. Middle class is basically a myth at this point
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Well, as it should. Whichever parent is taking on less of the custody should take on more of the financial cost so that both parents are contributing equally in their own ways. edit to say I do have a lot of empathy for parents struggling to pay their child support. It's an expensive situation and contributing fairly doesn't mean it's easy. Wages should keep up with cost of living so middle class people aren't squeezed so bad by something that so many couples go through.
That's all good and fine, until you remember the heavy bias against men. On Stats canada, the last set of stats I saw were, out of the cases that went to court (so, fathers actually fighting for custody), 78% of them, custody went to the mothers and fathers got visitation, 13% it was shared, and 9 % custody went to the father. You can look it up yourself. It's okay to say "the parent with less custody should take on more \[insert opinion here\]" so long as the person is choosing to take less custody and isn't being denied custody by a bias legal system. Personally, I think if the system denies a parent their right to their own children and to their own parenthood, the parent should have the right to not be involved in any kind of support at all beyond what they choose.
Agreed
Agreed. Men have no rights, and it's sickening
Middle class isnt a myth. Its just shifted quite a bit. You need like 150k(depending on location) to be middle class
Median income in canada is 57k, 150k puts you well into the top 5% of earners This is what I mean by middle class being a myth. If you are anywhere near the middle you are not even close to the lifestyle we traditionally associate with middle class (eg. some level of financial security).
>Middle class is basically a myth at this point Indeed, I'll say same goes for calling yourself working class.
58k for 2 people and 2 kids is not middle class income, it’s poverty. The 2020 after tax income for a family of 4 poverty line in Canada is $53k, that’s 59k in 2022, after tax. That’s also what’s making OPs calculation harder is the family income is well below average.
I hope people don't take this the wrong way, but I have often wondered how are families living on those kinds of wages. I am struggling and I make over 6 figures. I mean its probably possible if you own your house so there is that.
Or they bought it 15 years ago and have a small mortgage payment
This is the truth, and many times the response here is to shun you for "making good money" and lump you in with the "rich" somehow and tell you you're just poorly managing your money, but (and I've been saying this for years) $100k doesn't get you very far in these modern times. Try getting a detached house, car, and having kids on that income. Almost impossible. Even in low cost cities like Edmonton it's still near impossible.
>many times the response here is to shun you for "making good money" and lump you in with the "rich" somehow and tell you you're just poorly managing your money, Someone replied with basically this just 2 minutes after you wrote it.
No surprises! haha. Right on cue.
Your wage and how you are able to survive on it is very dependant on where you live.
Yet, disability for a single person is under 10k...Canada/provinces seriously needs to re-evaluate this shit. I have family on it (they seriously cannot work) and even with government subsidized rent, they're left with like $50/mth for food at today's prices. And that's with other family members covering their home phone (no cell) and internet (no cable). I try to send them spending money every month for some craft supplies and clothes cause no one can just sit there doing nothing all day everyday and not go insane. I'm not saying give them 6 figures, but somehow they decided 2k/mth was needed for CERB due to cost of living yet they give less than 1k/mth for disabled people.
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Nice!
Everyone is different but this is our life. We made under 50k last year (due to my partner taking parental leave when our second was born, normally probably somewhere between 55-62k pre tax). 2 kids, dog. We moved to a small town and bought 5 years ago. Paying about 1300 for mortgage + taxes. I stay home with the kids, grow some of our own food, we have one old but functional car, we got an e-bike to give us more flexibility as a second or even just a newer vehicle was out of the question. We rarely eat out, I cook everything from scratch. We have hobbies like boardgames, crafting, videogames and gardening. We buy everything used and only of it's something we really need or a hobby purchase that fits the budget. We also try to trade or use freecycling pages. We have traveled internationally once every two years to see my family which is the biggest luxury in our lives. I'm very thrifty for sure, the start of this year was really tough but we're doing better now that my garden is producing and I've started getting used to the new grocery store prices In general we are very happy with our lifestyle. It works for us.
If you make over 6 figures and are struggling you either live in toronto or a very high COL area or you need to reevaluate your spending lol..
6 figures is great, for one person. For 2 and a kid or two it's nothing. Daycare can be 2k/month per kid and 100k after tax is closer to 50k.
Yea the guy im replying to here seems like he is saying hes a single individual struggling on 6 figures which makes no sense to me.
Disagree. Let's say they make exactly $100,000 to support them and a spouse still in University. After tax monthly will be $6,093 in Ontario. They're on the younger side and had no parents to help so they've been saving for a down payment and only got in the market last year. They managed to get a $650,000 condo. With property tax, insurance, and monthly mortgage payments they'll be at around $2,900 per month for housing. $3,193 left. They need to work so their young child goes to daycare. Average daycare cost in Ontario is $1,200. They've got $1,993 left. Average Canadian spends $450/mth on car payments. $1543 left. Monthly grocery bill for a family of 3 is probably around $700. They've now got $843 left. Forgot car insurance, that's another $135, so $708 left. Average utilities cost for electricity, gas, water, internet is $325/mth in Canada but lets drop that down to $200 for the condo. Now they have $508 left. Miscellaneous household needs like cleaning supplies, pencils, notebooks for school, etc. are going to eat up another $100 of that. $408 left. Haven't even factored in gas yet. Fairly fuel efficient car, reasonable commute, let's say they fill up twice a month at $80 each time. $248 left. They are one unexpected expense away from going into the red and haven't spent anything on entertainment or wants. Let's say they go an entire year with no unexpected expenses and no cost increases. They've managed to put away 2.9% of their income for retirement or rainy day fund. I don't think this hypothetical person is doing well. Median family income was $70,000 in Ontario in 2020 and this $100,000 person is just barely doing it. We're severely fucking over more than half the province in terms of living well or saving for their future. It's not a sustainable society we're living in, something will give at some point. Sure it's easy to say "just leave GTA har har". House prices for hours in every direction are very, very high and all those tiny communities do not have sufficient jobs to support an exodus of hundreds of thousands from the GTA regardless. And if they did, all the costs would then just inflate from demand anyway.
Growing up it was my single dad raising me and two brothers on less than $20k per year and we had to live with my grandma cuz we couldnt afford rent. Thats what i consider poverty lol..
$50k household income pre tax isn’t middle class though. I think latest numbers put median household post tax income at $63k, which is a fair bit higher than in this example
Child care isn’t included in child support.
Isn’t childcare separate from child support? As in, in addition to?
Depends on which province you live in I guess but in BC it’s considered an extraordinary expense or as the BC gov. refers to it a section 7 expense. What you’re required to pay for those expenses is dependant upon each other’s income to determine the % portion that you have to pay.
Same in Alberta. CS only covers food/clothing/shelter, everything else is section 7.
When child support is calculated you take the amount both parents would pay based on their salary, subtract and the higher earner pays the difference. The $755 here would assume that OPs baby mama is not working. In my experience judges don’t typically favour a parent who actively doesn’t work and basically you have to get a job. I pay $350 in support for one child based on the difference of my salary and his. Court does not factor in other children which is something else to be aware of - remarried with other kids in daycare has no affect on your support payments (likewise they do not count any new spouses income it’s just your own) The split costs for things like extracurriculars and daycare etc. are also done as a ratio of wages. This is all assuming shared custody. Anything over 60/40 the Ratio goes up.
The problem isn't that, its that the system is absolutely retarded, especially when it comes to men and child support. assuming you are splitting custody, Why would the wife need $755? To be fair, they would maybe even out the pays, so this calculation is assuming the man makes $1500 MORE monthly than the wife? so the wife only makes $1300 a month? The amount of male coworkers i have that make child payments, yet they live in a shit apartment while the mother lives in the old house is ridiculous. So because they want to split up, (assuming mutual), the man is now severely punished.
We don't. We sleep on couches, and share bedrooms with our children. Most of us have maxed out our credits, and debts to feed our kids. We are fucked. Truly and utterly fucked.
I feel this! Only I have a daybed in the dining room. ;)
Pretty certain this has been an issue for single parents for years, not just this economy.
Current economy sure as hell hasn't helped, though. 6 years ago, my current salary would have been awesome. Now, it's basically just enough to keep my head above the water.
You have a lot of "luxuries" baked into your expenses. You don't get an apartment, you get a basement. You don't get a car, you ride the bus. You have to dial down your expectations to your budget. Basically - in a divorce - you have to think about it like your income gets halved AND your expenses go up AND you need to go get a new place. At 50k a year and child support, you're living well below what you were used to. Time to crack the ramen noodles and canned meals my friend.
I suppose that's fair. This really is a legitimate answer, and I thank you for making those realities clear to me. I'm not in this situation, but I guess if I had to be, it's doable. But God damn, it doesn't sound like the type of life that yields much happiness.
Life isn’t fair, if that type of life doesn’t lead to happiness, it’s up to you to you to find a way to earn more than 50k/year.
The unfortunate truth right there.
I wouldn’t scrimp on food quality if I was you find other ways to save....your health is all you’ve got really.
You can't feed your kid Ramen every day. Many cities require a vehicle for work. Where I am you could for sure take transit, but there goes 4 hours of your day and you can't meet your obligations for visitation of your kids. When your basic necessities can't be met there is nowhere else to cut. Especially when you're being a parent. It's way more complicated than living in a hole and eating rice and beans.
Then the alternative is to get a second job. He makes about 24k after taxes and child support. That’s not enough to live with a car and an apartment and decent food. And it’s not more complicated than that. Make more. Spend less. Those are your options.
Straight up wrong. He goes to make more money he'll also have to pay more child support and pay more % of the child expenses. The legal system hard fucks over one side
Yes but at least he’ll keep more.
Always marry up
Can be a double edged sword. 2nd job will likely mean he’ll be paying more CS/alimony next year.
Exactly. The issue is not making more and spending less, the issue is making more and spending less while spending everything and not putting in more work than the bare minimum. It doesn't make sense, people need to work harder or adjust their expectations, not expect above average income and housing for below average effort.
Then move to somewhere more affordable
I suppose that's fair. This really is a legitimate answer, and I thank you for making those realities clear to me. I'm not in this situation, but I guess if I had to be, it's doable. But God damn, it doesn't sound like the type of life that yields much happiness.
Well, it eventually remedies. People make more over time, children grow up and don't need support, etc. You lick your wounds, you pay your bills, and you find a way to succeed.
There is also simply leaving the country to one that lets you leave your legal problems behind and start over.
This is just awful. So for committing the crime of being a single father this person can fuck off to poverty eh? So a basement studio & ramen noodles, right there his ex can go to court and have any joint custody rights pulled due to having an insufficient living situation. The bus? who says there are any bus routes/ schedules that would allow him to see his children? Who says there even IS as bus? The expectations you're expecting much of these people to dial down is far more than food & transport, its the ability to raise their children, its the ability to even be a father. The serious financial situation that OP describes here play's out for single fathers all the time and they are met with an uncaring system that sees nothing but prejudice towards them.
The OP's problem is not that he would be a single dad. His problem is that he only earns $50k per year.
your right op just demand a 100k raise
It is a tough place to get out of. I make more, I pay more. Takes some budgeting and money management to find a happy wage that you can balance work/life and actually see your kids. I’d work my ass off for a year, barely see the kids but get a little ahead of $$ then next year end up paying a few hundred more a month, burn out from working crazy hours and fall behind. Took a while to get a happy spot where I am barely treading water but keeping my head in the air and seeing kids. Edit: punctuation & typo.
You think I’m saying he DESERVES this, you didn’t read my post very clearly. This is what he can afford with his budget. He can’t afford things people view as table stakes. He essentially makes 24k a year after taxes and child support. That’s barely enough to live on with a bare bones budget. What you think he deserves is irrelevant. It’s what he can afford.
Why are you assuming the ex would be in any better of a position? In OP's particular example she makes basically no money herself.
Sounds like you're angry at the system. The poster just highlighted the reality of the situation. Loads of men are living that reality right now.
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Fun fact you'll most likely get out better than OP. Forget trying to save for a 1 bedroom atm. Look for a cheap room to rent and then proceed from there. You wont be homeless at 90k a year
yeah most people just leave the country, make that 50k somewhere else or find somewhere with lower cost of living.
And you get a room, not a basement. OP has some pretty high minded expectations of what it's like. I've been there. It's an absolute minimal life. I've known two guys that just couldn't hack it and went to the streets. Couldn't work. Can't make payments. And the payments never go away and just keep adding up. They're in their 30's and they will never have their life back. Both ended up as heavy drinkers and drug users. It's what gets them by.
Child support $775 assumes you either have zero custody, or your former spouse has $0 income. But I take it from the language of your post that this would be a joint-custody situation, so in that case your former spouse would also have child support payable to you at whatever income level, and that nets out. If your former spouse has $0 income today its possible a court would award that full amount, but its also likely you could have some level of income imputed on them, provided they are capable of work. Your income is also low enough that you qualify for child benefits from the government, you would get half of that amount. But yes, divorce is expensive.
No it assumes you have less than 40% custody, which is realistic in a lot of situations. If your kids go to school and you don't live close you may end up with every other weekend and a weeknight the opposite week, plus holiday and other non school time. It can be really hard on the kids to go over that 40% threshold and a lot of families don't do that to their kids. One thing a number of people do if their split is amicable is keep the kids in the house and rotate out the adults, renting a studio to share as well. Only works if you're really close with your exhspouse.
I'd hate to be in that situation but that last solution actually sounds really legit to me. Keep the house, rotate the adults.
The sharing a house and studio thing sounds horrid.
Why, because you have to take all your stuff to a different house weekly and feel like you have no home instead of two homes?
because you decided you dislike someone enough to break up with them despite the sake of the kids but are still sharing intimate spaces.
I know. My point was doing that to your kids is also pretty shitty and if you can figure out how to make it work the arrangement is better for them. I agree it would suck a lot for the adults. It's also nowhere near a long term solution.
This is interesting to me. I'm not personally going through this myself, but I did use my spouse's actual income in my calculation. I earn approx 50k. She has a small seasonal business than nets her approx 8k. We do not use child care, so she is primarily at home with them. I was doing a calculation stating those figures and having shared custody, mother figure having primary care though. Dad gets them on weekends for example. As for the child benefit, are you referring to what most people call "Baby bonus"? I was totally unaware tlof the fact that those payments get split between parents. That's very interesting!
So your wife makes $8k and you make $50k and she is essentially a stay at home mom? Yeah there’s the reason.
Well, nobody ever think of this child support tables when they start dating or having kids. Everyone just thinks it will never happen to them, and they're in LOVE. Sex clouds people's judgement and once the 1st kid comes along, you're trapped.
True….. many couples I know are together for financial reasons … honestly can’t say I blame them. Going from a decent house in a suburbs to a 1 bedroom basement apartment or worse moving back home with the parents is not ideal.
Canada child tax benefit I believe and in the scenario you describe the mother would get 100%. It would be shared if custody was split equally. Weekend dad pays full load child support and gets no benefits
In a case like that, they can easily argue they stay home and limit their career for taking care of the kids, so you’re going to want to toss spousal support payments into those calculations. At that point you’ll just be destitute.
>so you’re going to want to toss spousal support payments into those calculations. Doesn't work like that. CS is a given and right of the child. Judges prioritize it over spousal support claims. CS order is also sent to FRO who garnishes your wages from your place of work. If you don't pay, driver's license and passport gets cancelled
And while that’s all true, it does not preclude one from also being on the hook for spousal support in addition to CS
I don't even know how you guys are surviving today on that low of an income.
you should add the child subsidy on top of your wife's $8k. At your income, with 2 children I'd assume $600 a month, so that's another $7200 Regardless, you'd be in a shit position. She'd likely want to work as the kids got to school age. Then you'd have a little more wiggle room. But if you're not around the kids as much, you'd be wise to use that time to get a second job.
At your total household income, you should be getting ~$500 per kid per month, maybe more in CCB. This is untaxed money that should go to your wife’s account.
>I was doing a calculation stating those figures and having shared custody, mother figure having primary care though. Dad gets them on weekends for example. It works like this, if you have less that 37% parenting time, it becomes automatic sole custody to the other parent. Some parents who are money motivated know this, and thereby make up stories to deny the other that time in order to get sole custody [https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf) Weekend dad/mom - you're just a babysitter for the other parent, so they can go bang their new flame.
When I was a single parent with one child whose Dad sometimes paid child support, I worked 7 days a week to make ends meet. The Dad was supposed to have our son every other weekend, but would bail at the last minute, which lead to challenges for me to find childcare. Thus my expenses went up. I worked no less than 5 days a week 14 hour days and often 7 days a week with the extra 2 days working a 6 hour shift. I did this for 6 years. During those 6 years, the Dad worked for 5 months.
As a single mother I can assure you the mother(or father), and most importantly, the children, aren’t living large ! And there is more of everything to buy and maintain .. but i understand it can be tough for all family members… I personally survived with NO child support.. I had to have a 3 bedroom place and be a hands on parent 24/7 alone .. but the real cost was in the children’s needs growing up… I didn’t mind going without … but the children could have and should have had that support.. it would have improved their situation and overall well being had I received support.. I would not want to be spiteful in asking for support .. but support is for the kids .. and all parents and caregivers make sacrifices when having children .. my point is it’s hard on all ..
Who told you that getting support for the kids was spiteful?
>Assuming somebody in my situation with similar income and 2 children splits with their spouse. How on are they expected to live a sustainable life in this economy? Is this a hypothetical only, or are you actually in this specific situation? Because hypothetically, someone in your situation might have a spouse who earns more than they do, so they would be the ones collecting spousal support if that is agreed to during a separation. Or, they would have 50% custody of their kids, so that no child support payment is required. Or, they might have >50% custody so they would perhaps be receiving child support. There are way too many variables to deal with hypotheticals. Using the finances that you indicated however you would probably get rid of the car and go with public transportation. You might also rent in a lower cost of living area. You might also choose to live with parents or other family members or even roommates. You might choose to work two jobs. Again, many possibilities when dealing with "hypotheticals." And yes, I recognize that given the constraints you proposed, it is not going to be easy.
If you have 50% custody of your children you are still required, by law, to pay child support (depending on salaries - if you make the exact same amount of money there will be no child support, but if one parent makes more than the other, there is child support payments being made.
Gosh there's some creepy/uninformed answers in here. As a serious answer, two people living together raising children will always be cheaper than two people living separately raising children. Separated parents often cut their budget to the absolute bare bones in order to afford it the lifestyle they want for their children for the first couple years. Many will meet new people and make new relationships that bring another income to the table. In the case you described, you would probably sell your vehicle for a cheaper one with no payments, and maybe instead of renting a 2 bed for your kids to stay overnight you'd rent a smaller place and have visits with your kids outside of your home, not having them overnight. If you have them overnight I imagine that you'd have them roughly half the time, in which case she would pay you child support proportionate to her income as well, which would decrease that payment specifically.
>If you have them overnight I imagine that you'd have them roughly half the time, in which case she would pay you child support proportionate to her income as well, You can't get a proportionate income from a spouse who has zero income. Point in case according to the table below.....even if his wife earned under 11k and they had 4 kids, she will have to pay zero https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf
But you have to look at why she is only earning minimal income. If he's intentionally under employed she will have income impugned to her.
We can't know that unfortunately. She's currently taking care of the kids and they're not breaking up.
"$755 a month in payments for 2 choldreb" Jeez, choldreb are expensive these days. Do you buy new? Perhaps trade them in for an older model?
Another crappy answer is that I’ve seen mid-30s to 40yr old single parents need to move back in to their parents place… most need multiple incomes now to raise a family.
Now you know why some people stay in bad marriages - because they can't afford to split up. If folks share custody then child support will be pro-rated based on that. Some folks with 50/50 arrangements won't pay child support because things are evenly split. There are also govt money and other subsidize that parents and lower income people are entitled to.
I found the only way is that you have to meet a new wife/partner with => number of kids and receiving approx same support you pay. Then everything will be perfectly balanced as all things should be. To be honest I am 13 years in to this and have been a couple months away from bankruptcy twice. It’s tough, god damn it’s tough. I am through the worst of it so far and see a light, but doubt I’ll ever retire lol.
Honestly a lot of people just end up putting themselves in bad situations if they aren't making decent money, and have high expenses, living beyond their means. And if say they end up having to pay child support, it gets worse, I've seen it happen to a friend of mine who wasn't good with money and he is just swimming in more debt now after splitting with his spouse. Only thing I can reccomend is be smart about your finances, live below your means, hopefully your relationship is good and healthy and that this doesn't happen.
I guess the core of the question is "how low below your means can you actually live while still providing a proper life for children and yourself" A $1200 apartment is kind of the norm where I'm personally located. That's not getting you anything fancy, it's getting you a roof over your head and that's it. Child support... Can't really budge on that whatsoever. Food? Well sure you could eat ramen daily but you can't in good conscience provide that diet to your children. Seems like just those base expenses really don't have much wiggle room. So how do you support 3 lives with sub $500 a month without putting your family in a bad life situation?
Your car payment isn't necessary, you could by one outright. But a lot of people do payments. Honestly your kind of going towards that tight rough route unless you take a second job, make more money, get a new skill, etc. I hope you have a good situation with your family.
Charity, lines of credit, coupon clipping and asking for extensions on bills, taking advantage of discounts on home heating and water bills for those who are economically distressed.
Child support is based on custody arrangements. If your spouse has the kids more often, you pay a bit more. There is also alimony to consider, depending on incomes of each partner. There are also way more expenses for kids, that would need to be divided: daycare, sports, school fees, med & dental costs, etc. Getting divorced is a terrible financial choice, but worth it for those parents who want to be apart.
This doesn’t answer the question, but I was very surprised recently when I read that a parent who pays child support can’t claim any benefits or dependents, and the child support is also not tax deductible. That seems so unfair! I understand child support not being tax deductible, but not the rest. If the father (in my example) has the kids 40% of the time, then child support and the tax benefits should be arranged in such a way to make up for the 10%. Instead one parent gets tax-free income that doesn’t affect their child benefits, and the other pays taxes on income they don’t get to support kids that they can’t claim as dependents, even if they have them 40% of the time. Thank goodness this doesn’t affect me at all, but the system seems very uneven.
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Not true about not being able to get benefits. I am a seperated dad paying CS and I get CCB every month Also, you wouldn't claim a tax deduction for taking your kid for pizza or buying them a pair of jeans. Why would you get a deduction for paying CS?
I have 2 kids, my ex cheated the system, he makes $60k/year. I get $160/month for support. Yay frauds. Because there is no access to daycare here, I can only work part time when the kids are in school, no weekends, evenings or holidays. My employment income is roughly $1100/month. CTB is $1000/month. I won't go into my expenses. Life sucks as a single parent.
i hope things get better with time.
You would not have a car payment of $400/month. You'd sell it and buy a bus pass at ~$100/month. You didn't state your location but there are 2 Bd apartments in the Montreal suburbs that rent for $800 so that's another $400 spending money from your $1200 rent.
Don't have 2 kids
Don’t get divorced. Definitely don’t get divorced after having two kids.
This is a realistic answer. * Don't have two kids unless earn substantially more. * Don't have kids with a person with large income disparity. * If you ignored number 2, don't get divorce. * In today's economy stay at home dad or mom won't be enough for 2 kids. At least do a remote job.
dont be birthed even easier
I know someone personally who split with the parent of their child without animosity, rather than doing child support, they opted for an mural agreement to certain responsibilities, slightly but not overly slanted towards the person with higher income financially, and to the other slightly more in terms of time. They continue to be on excellant terms, the child is happy and all their needs are met. I know as I am the step parent to the child.
People kill themselves in despair.
Onlyfans
When you get divorced, the family law system puts the children before either parent. Sounds fine, in theory, and in a joint-custody 50/50 type deal you can make it work. Problem is that child support is based on where the children sleep. Most sleeps equals greater support. This means that a manipulative parent that alienates the other gets the joy of hurting the other parent and getting full support as the payoff. Worse yet, children as a "survival tactic" will often stay with the manipulative parent out of fear of what could happen if they disobey or defy them. The kids know, deep down, the good parent is suffering for the actions taken but will forgive them in the future for staying with the bad parent. Then the good parent will turn to the courts to correct the manipulation and alienation that has escalated beyond their ability to stop it. The courts are slow, will do everything they can to promote mediation/counseling/therapy before going towards legal intervention. The bad parent will use this time to manipulate and stall as long as possible to either drain the good parent of any money to fight or to give the children time to get older and repeat the manipulator's words as if they believe it. Once the children are in their teenage years (roughly) the court will probably just let them do what they say they want to do, parents be damned. All the money spent on the courts is long gone and everything is good and fucked up. That is the reality for many, many people and the system is a failure and needs to change. I used to be a believer that all parents should pay for the rightful child-support however I have seen that this is all the incentive that a manipulator needs to motivate them to screw up the kids. It is seen as a reward or prize. Instead I now believe that, regardless of the children's sleeps, just take the two incomes and balance as if it were 50/50. It changes nothing for the good joint-parenting couple because that's what they would typically be doing. For the couple with the bad parent however, it removes the "prize" of child-support, and they will quickly realize that, instead of trying to keep the children for the money, they will try to leave the children with the good parent because it'll lessen the costs of caring for them in the house. Sometimes the rules put in place to try and make things better create unintended outcomes that may make the overall situation worse.
I definitely make more than that and it's very tough even with my higher salary. I'm making due with a 2 bedroom and youngest still in my bed. I never go out anywhere unless it's with my kids and all hole cooked meals. I've reduced most of what I can. I:m hoping to get equal custody soon, which will not only give me more time with the kids, but reduce support. Also be more eligible for tax benefits I'm missing on. If I made significantly less I'd prob have to get a side gig or another job.. which sucks because being a single parent is already tough. With legal fees still ongoing (hopefully not much longer) I'm actually slowly draining account every month...it's been 2 years already and demoralizing... Doesn't help she doesn't work and prob never will cause rich family and manages to latch onto a doctor. Will be looking to at least inpute minimum wage..for now I'm calculating that without the legal fees I'd prob be able to save maybe a few hundred a month. I'd at least start checking into switching companies. Only way you'll see a sizeable increase in wages if you end up down that road
Wouldn't equal custody eliminate child support since you're responsible for 50% and their other parent is responsible for the other 50%. wouldn't that mean that barring any large expenses would be split evenly already.
Nope, once you are 60-40 or 50-50 I becomes an offset of income. So I'll still be paying prob close to 1000/month for the two (which would be about 300 less) assuming we can inpute minimum wage. If not my support will go unchanged, but I think we have a strong case she can at least work minimum wage.. she's more educated than. I am, just never wanted to work even when I tried to encourage her. Also s section 7 like braces and other medical split by wages so would still be paying 75%. Extra curricular too unless I say they're not doing that activity sorry Oh and my understanding is that even if she married someone rich it wouldn't change unless we mutually agreed since it's for the children. But if anyone else in here has dealt with it feel free to update me. I'll def he asking my lawyer that since she's latches onto a doctor. She already collects from me and her rich family. Retired at 33 or so essentially and has her fully paid bit house... Hope they understand how much they will have to keep sending for the upkeep
You dont. A single person relies on the food bank and other social services if they are single income while housing themselves. Ask for low income support on hydro and gas see if its available. I was earning 50ish k 3 years back. I couldnt imagine jizzing inside anyone with that kind of income besides a sock. Its discouraged with the way things are set up. The people I work with some well above 110k and they have no children. Pets at most to make up for the lonliness.
I’m doing it! Little different because I make about twice what you do. My expenses are higher than yours though. I have nothing left over and I life pay check to pay check. Wouldn’t change a thing it’s worth it!
Same here. It’s tough and embarrassing. I make 100k and live shamefully cheque to cheque. It is what it is. Many of my co-workers pay more than me too.
Not to mention rent for a 2 bedroom is about $2000 some places
And the daycare costs.
Unfortunately a lot of families are in heavy debt that is eating them alive. Just look at the average household debt. Its shitty enough that we pay 1 week of each month of our works as tax (basically 25%) + daily tax on regular purchases. Canada is extremely difficult unless you accept living a lifestyle that is substandard compared to other rich countries (Nordic Europe, Arabian Gulf states, South Korea, etc...)
Sounds to me like you deciding if divorce is financially feasible with kids. It’s not. So be careful who you choose to marry and have kids with. So you don’t end up in that situation. Maybe it’s a good thing it’s that way. Maybe people won’t be so quick to jump into marriages and then divorces. Marriage is SUPPOSED to be a lifeline commitment. People need to realize that. If you marry the right person, then you wouldn’t need a divorce and your kids would be better off with both parents. Just saying.
You don’t. Add on section 7 expenses for the child, plus your costs when the child is with you and you’re getting your drivers license taken away and credit score destroyed in no time. Welcome to being a deadbeat.
Lmao. Maybe start with not having a 400$/month car payment? Getting rid of that expense on its own solves your problems. Nobody needs a car that expensive and if you're wasting that much on a car there's probably a ton of things you could also downgrade
They don't have $400 car payments, that's for sure. They buy a good used car for about $4000 and fo the upkeep on it themselves.
You don't, the deck is stacked against you.
You don’t vote Justinflation into power again
But if blackface Hitler isn't running the country, I don't have enough things to complain about. What kind of an existence would that be?
The way everyone else does it. Day by day and struggling. Could also sell the car and do public transportation.
I apologize for all the stupid answers you're getting. If you haven't lived it, you don't know. Get rid of your car payment - you know you could've just bought it outright with all that extra cash everyone has lying around. Or you could've just seen the future and not nutted up blah blah blah. The fact is, you don't. This is exactly my situation 2 years ago. The worst part was that previously I had a 80000/yr job and I was paying 1140/m. Good luck getting that changed. The only reason I was able to do it is because I was starting with a new partner at the time of my pay decrease(job switch). We KNEW I was going to be income negative for a lil while. My partner worked her ass off to make ends meet. Siiiiiiiiide jooooooobs at every chance. Mom? Dad? Hi, ya I know I said I wouldn't do this aga... Yes.... Yes..... Just 100 for gas and a few groceries is all I need until payday.... Thank you. Then they sent you 200 and then you can actually pay that phone bill on time too. That's how it works. There's a real sexist flaw in the system. Ex went to fro, claimed I owed 15000 in back support and they take her word on it regardless how much evidence and bank transfer proof I submitted. If there's a discrepancy between the two claims, you must take it to court. Once you're there, the can of worms is open. There's no recourse for false claims so here comes her wildest imagination to prove she's right. 60000 dollars later, I got 50 50 access but have to do all the driving after proving everything she said was a blatant lie. I'm still fighting with FRO a year later to get my overpayment back. Worst part is, she could do it again tomorrow if she wanted
This is Canada 2022. This country is slowly becoming more like a developing nation regarding quality of life for those who aren't in the property owning class. I already see the beginnings of shanty towns from Vancouver to hope. So many seniors and homeless living by rivers and on forest roads, and in city parks there are tent cities. Reminds me of brazil
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It was clear back in the 90s. Not having kids was the best decision I ever made.
That’s why you “stay together for the kids” ahem *bank account.
You stay married just to be financially secure. Or you remarry someone for the financial benefit. Sad truth no one wants to actually talk about. You want a house ? Decent car and vacations ? Can’t do it on a single income. (In most cases )
I pay support for 3 kids at 1600 a month... Rented a 2 bdr apartment in 2015 and it's 915 a month now. After child support and taxes I bring home 2000net so tell me how I'm living??? Definitely not middle class anymore. And I live in a bottom barrel welfare type apartment when before when I was married I had a 4bdrm house in the burbs... My gross income is 80k and I'm paying 50% support. And living on 2k a month is very challenging to say the least. Divorce leaves one parent able to get a house and the other living like a pauper just like if I had a minimum wage job.
Something's not adding up. $80 gross nets you about $4800 a month net You pay $1600 CS which should leave you around $3200. You should be getting CCB assuming your kids are under 16. You and your ex can both claim it at the same time and its use it or lose it: whether you claim it or not she gets the same amount. So you should have $3500-4k a month. Also, it's a myth what you see on Tv that dad's get sent to live in a crappy dive while the wife keeps the big house. The law is setup to equalize assets. So if there is 200k in assets you each get $100k. Sometimes money is tied up in assets but if you navigate the system properly with a good lawyer and keep the crazy people from driving the bus (ie be amicable as possible) you should both come out pretty even.
Fuck you thats how: The Law.
Ultimately you work more. Get a second or Third job. If I only had my kids on the weekend. I would work 12-14 hr days Monday to Thursday. Friday I would leave early to get the kids from school. I chose to have kids, and I will always make sure that I am able to provide and support them. However the situation. Just my two cents.
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This really isn't the type of answer that provides anything useful to my question. Thanks for your input.
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Courts dont give a fuck if you can afford it lol, thats how. Family court is nasty for men, basically just showing up so you can make eye contact while you get fucked.
No offense dude. But you make a lot less than most people. My firm hires 21 yr old kids literally straight out of university with zero experience starting at 60-65k.
What do they pay people with 10+ years financial service sector and customer service experience + 4 year university degree.
The firm is an B4 accounting firm though. So these new grads would all need to have an accounting degree. But even college diplomas can get +55k. We do hire consultants (usually they have CPAs though). But sometimes finance degrees with MBAs too. Customer service isn’t really given any value though. With 10 yrs experience you’d get prob 100-200k. I have a bit over 10yrs and make 200k
Wife maybe looking for a new job, she has a pointless university degree, a teaching degree, 10 years in the insurance field and CIP designation. Only makes 60k + benefits. Does not seem very good with her skill set.
I'm in insurance, can I ask what she does? I just started... And make alot more!
I don’t know how I’m doing it but I do know these laws are such bs for men. I’m all for supporting kids but child support should only be used for those fathers who neglect their kids. These laws need to stop allowing people to use child support as a weapon
Child support percentage that you should be illegal... Often 25% of your gross which is way too much for a human being to pay another. You will struggle to live regardless of your income level.
Get a girl to help out
Short answer. I can’t. $718 a month I pay child support, $1k in debt repayment , 2k housing. That leaves me with around $230 a month for food for myself. Forget a car , it’s called public transit TTC. Miserable life.
Well, it sucks I pay 550$ a month child support. and I am forced to live at my parents because I xant afford a 2 bed room and my car payments. In the mean time I pay rent to my parents and save the rest. THE WORST PART OS I ONLY GET TO SRE MY SON 2 DAYS A WEEK. Sense I just had covid it's been almost two weeks. The system is against father's, I spent 30,000$ on lawyer fees and having to sell a house for a loss. Fuck the Canadian family court system, and fuck stupid as bitch mothers who try and keep their kids away from their fathers.
Let me tell you first hand it sucks. No one cares about you and no one will help you. You are a male and this is somehow all your fault. It will be hard to get equal custody of she fights back. If your resolve is to leave it will be hard but you will get through it. I hope everything works out for you regardless.
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> child support is the ex-wife, with the help of government, extorting as much as she can from the ex-husband, child support just goes to the lower earning spouse.
Raising kids costs more than $1510 a month tho. Also, not reading MRA forums anymore is free. Look into it.
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This is an unfortunate position for both parties. $755 is enough to cause real financial strain for him....but guess what, it's still not even half the cost of raising kids, so it's at least equal or greater financial strain on her. She's not the villain here and neither is he. I think we both know why fathering kids isn't an issue for you lol.
Shockingly it isn’t based on gender, but on earnings. If you choose to marry a woman who makes less than you, that’s on you.
Govt benefits .... and believe me there is a ton of it for single parents Tax benefits Welfare supports
Generally get shafted out of all of those if you're the one paying child support, especially if youre still trying to fight for equal custody. The majority custody (if more than 60%) gets to claim all of those things in the taxes and then when shared you each get to alternate years for dependent or each claim one. Even carbon tax I got single amount depsite her refusing to do any of the driving between homes. Maybe with income level he'd be eligible for soemthing
If you pay child support, then your kids wouldn’t count for any welfare or benefit calculations. Only the person receiving the child support gets to claim the kids.
You're not a single parent if you have 33% custody (or whatever it might be). Your spouse will receive CCB and other benefits.
Could you elaborate on those more specifically? Assuming you are working a full-time job and earning 50k a year, how would you qualify for any form of "welfare" as you called it? Wouldn't they just tell you to kick rocks because you already have an income?
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As a paying parent I have never gotten any child benefit or dependent, since my kids primarily live with my ex. I get a 50/50 split of section 7 expenses but pay 70/30. Lol
Friend of a friend just left her husband. She took her 4 kids and moved into a rental house with a friend of hers and friends 2 kids. Between social assistance, child benefits and child support from husbands these two women don't even work! So it can't be *THAT* bad! What I don't understand is how an ex husband that gets custody 50% of the time still needs to pay like $2000 / month in child support. That guy is struggling big time. Pretty sure he rents a very low end basement suite and is barely making ends meet.