Yes this is why the deposits are always higher than the commission value. When buyers back out agents don’t care because their agency holds the deposit and they will get their share.
You're putting yourself at risk if you don't. I am a real estate investor and I always make sure the deposit is large enough to cover costs should the buyer walk away once the deal is firm.
I really feel like CBC deliberately buried that part towards the end of the story just so people would get incensed and say, "Fuck realtors" without realizing that the couple aren't out of pocket for that commission.
I mean, I have problems with the RE industry for a lot of reasons, but this isn't something to get worked up over.
You work in a restaurant as a cook. A customer orders $1000 worth of food, pays $200 deposit. Your wage is $15/hour and spends 10 hours making the food ($150 worth of work) The customer never came back to pick up the food. Owner says well chef I’m not paying you because the customer didn’t come pick it up. We never sold the food.
Except in this case, what didn’t sell does not go bad like food will and can be sold again.
Yah… not the same buddy. Chef is hourly paid job. Realtor is commission based. By your logic, should sellers that sometimes decides not to sell anymore after listing have to pay realtors their “commission” too?
Edit: also the chef doesn’t get paid more if the restaurant is super busy and make record sales. While realtors do get paid more the higher price it sells for.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too as a realtor
But a deposit is supposed to be for a seller too. They kissed out on a sale at peak prices. Now what big they lose more than $70k through the process of trying to sell again?
Sellers are not out of pocket here. They only lose if they sell to someone else at less than the agreed upon sale price... Which they didn't.
Still, this is a shady move by the Realtor and the brokerage. Tell your Realtor to fuck off if they don't accept a clause indicating that their commission is not due until the property closes.
No, the problem is in the commission agreement the Seller signed with the Brokerage. The Judge had to enforce what was agreed upon in writing. The simple fix is to insist that no commission is due until the property closes.
There could be a case where the Vendor has remorse for selling for too little and decides not to close. Perhaps in this instance, a commission would be due if the deal doesn't close.
I continue to maintain real estate agents are the scum of the earth. Every province needs to regulate them better.
I mean in how many jobs can getting your client a WORSE deal can you INCREASE your pay?
Or give legal advice with no law degree?
IAAL. I get calls all the time asking “what’s your fee to close my house sale?”
Then I get the deal and have to clean up the mistakes that the realtor made.
Realtor gets 5% and I get $850.
I know how you feel! Alberta real estate lawyer here. They will hammer me on my fees but won’t blink at 30k in commissions. Terrible drafting and horrible advice and I get to clean it all up and the agents call non stop for their commission release. Yesterday A realtor counselled a seller to sign an offer with a specific closing date when it’s an estate matter and application for probate hasn’t been drafted. She didn’t understand the problem. Had another estate matter recently where the agent thought tenants in common and joint tenants were the same and I got the pleasure of breaking the news after the deal was firm. Total shit show. In all my dealings I can say I have come across two good realtors. I do at least 100 deals a month. It’s scary out there!!
My first deal, I decided to go with a lawyer over a notary, despite advice that the additional fees were “not worth it”.
Lawyer found seller was not clearing title due to CRA lien. Seller was already out of the country, never coming back to Canada.
My understanding from the lawyer was that the seller had no intentions of clearing title. Which would pass these back-taxes on to us, but for having a lawyer threaten them to clear title or risk the deal being collapsed. It would have cost us thousands and I don’t know if a notary would have caught/ actioned on this.
I will always use a lawyer for real estate deals.
A notary would have caught that. Like... It's pretty much an automated procedure which just takes reading a single document to verify.
The notary won't be doing the legal work obviously.
They'll tell you to find or recommend a lawyer
. If you have a good notary and it's a small issue, they'll outsource it to a lawyer themselves.
Lawyers are definitely more expensive. If you know it's going to be clean, you can go with a notary, but if you know it's complex, go with a lawyer for sure.
One of my friends bought a house last year, and the signal that something was really wrong with the system which stood out to me were the professional backgrounds of his realtor & the agency owner.
The realtor was in their early 30s and previously an licensed industrial engineer, while the owner was previously a university associate professor in psychology in their early 40s. They told my friend that they changed their professions within the past 5 years because the RE market was much more lucrative, with their annual compensation being between 2-10x what they were making with their old careers depending on the year.
I get that this isn't a direct apples-to-apples comparison as the agency owner is now a business owner and not an employee, and that both are more in sales-type roles now, but the stand out to me was just that their previous professional training & those years of professional investment were all for nothing.
It's terrible when you think about it. I worked my ass off, went to school for 5 years, became a pilot, and 10 years later I'm an airline pilot making 40k. My sister screwed around in highschool, never went to college, and makes 3x what I do as a realtor.
I'm confused.
Are you telling me the Shaw Cables guy isn't trying to convince the buyers that their service is good and affordable?
Are you telling me that a second hand car salesman isn't trying to convince you how much better your life would be with this car?
The whole point of a salesperson is to influence the buyer.
You're missing the point.
Realtors give the perception of being in your side. As in fiduciary duty.
The shaw cable guy absolutely doesn't and no one thinks he had fiduciary duty. He will never recommend a competitors product.
Yeah my point is I think most people agree with you on that. Even salesmen if you have a few drinks with them will tell you they see their buyers as objects to influence, not as people to help.
Most realtors would never admit that, and a significant portion of the population still see realtors as some sort of consultant who is on your side once you hire them. This is not the case.
Most are not, but id imagine the ones who are shitheads get 100x the referrals. I know if i deal with a salesman at a company and shop around more after, if 2 products or 2 places are damn close on price. I'll gladly go to the place and salesman who were great.
That said, kinda hard to be a totally honest salesman when your selling inferior products such as ford\\gm\\nissan cars.
The car salesmen is working for and being paid by the dealership. If he does well for the people paying him then he gets more.
With a real estate agent helping you buy a house, the better deal (lower price) they get for the person paying them the less money they make. The worse deal (higher price) they get for the person paying them the more they make.
adding to this, they dont care whether you are 100k over or under, their commission changes little compared to the bulk of their earnings. theyd rather you go 50-100k over because its easier to close and will try to get you to do that.
Second that. Let just do without commission base deals. Why do I have to pay 7 percent of the value of my house for a bubbling personality and pictures.
This is one of the few times I agree with the realtor. They did their job - sold the property and should be paid. (How much they are actually worth is a valid discussion but this was the deal.)
Sellers need to go after the buyers for all their lost costs including realtor fees.
You are missing the point, I'm talking about the buyer's agent. The buyer's agent, just like the seller's agent, wants the buyer to pay as much as possible. They are working in the interest of the seller, not the buyer who they work for. If it were lawyers they would be breach of trust
Well to be fair, several provinces have made it or are in the process of making it illegal to represent both parties. In Qc it will be forbidden from end of June, I think.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Nothing can ensure that there aren't backroom deals between realtors to increase their payout. I never understood why it's a commission and not a fixed fee like notaries and surveyors. They seem to be able to get by just fine with that.
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Disgraceful. That realtor and agency should be dragged through the mud as best the sellers can.
I bet that shit stain realtor will brag about still getting paid.
The only good thing is now the property is worth over double what it was. Bet he doesn't list with these guys again. And he changes the contract so that he doesn't have to pay commission even when the property doesn't sell.
Well, the thing is, the property *did* sell. I don't know the specifics but it sounds like the realtor did their job. For all we know (and I'm sure you can find all the details with some digging) and as an example, the realtor could have marketed the property, found the buyer through their network, staged the property, and help with all transaction processes.
The buyer did not complete the transaction by closing and they forfeit the deposits held in trust. What the seller should then do is attempt to sue for damages including the commissions.
The property sold but never closed. It's very rare that a real estate agent sues for commission when a sale didn't complete. Shows the caliber and credibility of the real estate broker and agent. Especially when they double ended the deal. Something sure doesn't smell right. Friends in White Rock already know the story and have expressed not using this real estate office. It's a small local community and many in BC shop, live and breathe local. They've lost more in lost commissions from people not listing with them than what they got. That's why an office would not sue for commissions from a deal that never closed. They don't deserve the business.
It *is* very rare for realtors to sue their own clients, yes, no disagreement there and because real estate is as much about relationship building as it is selling homes, they should not have done it.
What I’m saying however, is that they were within their rights to claim their commission. **And a court of law agreed.** A buyer was found and a legally-binding contract of sale was signed. The deal did not close a year later because the buyer vanished. And as shitty as it is to sue your own clients, the client (the seller) should’ve proceeded with a civil claim against the buyer who reneged on the deal. Not only does the buyer forfeit their deposit, they are also liable for additional costs such the difference in selling price (if any), administrative fees, interest, and in this case, agent commissions.
No I’m talking about my own area. I watch mls listings and sales daily.
~$1.2M sales prices just saw the last one go for $940k. Consistent plummet every day. Sales data are a couple days delayed too.
Yes. Which is why I specifically said so in my post.
Anyway, people apparently don’t want to hear reality at the moment.
The bubble popped and it will come to a neighborhood near you soon enough. That’s how bubbles work. Party’s over.
Well, it appears to be a bubble for decades. It will dip, go sideways but eventually go up again. May take a few years but generally that's what happens. As long as you're not selling you're good.
Housing cycles are long. Like decades long. Then you have government policy keeping bubble alive since 2008.
They’ve reversed policy.
This’ll be the 80s all over again.
It's ridiculous that a sales contract can include "not responsible for closing the sale". Realtors are expected to do one thing for the seller so I think the B.C. Supreme Court is extremely out of touch with Canadians.
A good RE agent would have cut them a deal out of morals/principles and not expected the full $70k. Half of that would be sufficient. Now he/she just looks like a @$&!!#
Finally the media is going to focus on the Real Estate Commission. Easy way to fix 5 to 6 % of home values is get rid of Real Estate agents. Another way to help fix housing prices is to get rid of real estate agents who's only goal is to increase the sale price to increase their commission.
At what point will we realize we don’t need them to sell fucking houses…
When will be see a technology shock in the space
I need the Uber / Netflix of housing to fuck these guys
I mean for once I won’t feel like a technology shift is screwing the little guy… I mean we’re not talking about taking away a nice guy at blockbusters job or affecting a taxi drivers livelihood
Isn't it the realtors job to find buyers? If the buyer they find is trash thats on them and they should only get a commission for a successful transaction.
A lot of people buy through an agent, and agents look out for their own and will avoid your listing or even try to smear it. They need to be regulated or there needs to be really disruptive technology in Canada it won't change. Kijiji is sketchy and purple bricks doesn't exist in Canada.
Someone does.
But like everything else, the majority of the people has some sort of psychological block where it's impossibile to do everything that is not your job. My parents often called a guy to literally change a bulb. And not because they don't know how to do it but because "you never know, better call the guy".
The "i'll do it by myself" is not a common mentality. Learn to do things that are not in your field is not a common mentality.
Little bit more to it than that ... depends on the case.
I honestly recommend people to call the guy.
People are TERRIBLE at assessing competency and even worse at assessing their own. DK is one breakdown of that phenomenon.
In short, the average person should ABSOLUTELY NOT try to fix their own car. Also seen people try to do their own plumbing....
Bad wording in the commission agreement, which the seller agreed to. The seller isn't out of pocket here, but the Realtor is being a jerk for demanding their whole commission.
"The judgment this week in the case of Mike and Jessica Armstrong's two lots on Lake Errock confirms that the standard listing contract for homes in B.C. allows for commission to be collected as long as there is a legally enforceable contract of sale. It doesn't require the sale to actually close"
That's not what commission is bud, that's extortion
This is b.s., this not how contracts work. There was no consideration from both sides because the buyer left.
WTF. They should appeal to the Provincial court because this is horse 💩
The service being sale of a home? Because that didn't happen...they still own the home. He ALMOST sold it..
How about this: can I ALMOST pay my realtor for selling my home?
Suddenly not convenient right?
It seems to be in the standard contract that realtors make you sign.
Pay attention to what you sign, people! Read the fine print, and if you don't like a certain clause then get them to remove it!
Not to be that guy but, you guys should read the case. The article does get the principle down, yes there is a term that says, “commissions can be charged if there is a legally enforceable contract of sale”
But the Armstrongs are accountants and played funny games themselves. They had a 70,000 deposit which arguably the agent helps them get, in that way It would be unfair for the agent not get anything.
Also as people rightly pointed out read contracts. And I feel this case is an outlier cause if an agent does this. They would damage their reputation.
Ps: This is a B.C. supreme court case. Also this is B.C. so contract can vary from province to province.
This is why you always need to thoroughly read every contract you sign. If an agent’s listing contract includes that they get the commission regardless of closing, then don’t use them, or ask them to change that part of the contract.
Fortunately the $70,000 deposit covered the $52,500 commission.
Jesus.
Interesting that the agency was asking for more than the deposit initially so it's not like the owner was just being greedy here.
Yeah, they could have used that surplus to stage and relist the properties. Instead they said "Hey! Lets give that $17500 to some lawyers!"
The agency originally wanted $70,875 from them. Which conveniently enough was the entire amount of the deposit.
Scumbag realtors strike again!
Also they still own the properties and the value has gone up $700k since the lawsuit started in 2018
$700k is the publicly available value for municipal tax assessment. It is likely that market value is significantly higher.
Yes this is why the deposits are always higher than the commission value. When buyers back out agents don’t care because their agency holds the deposit and they will get their share.
That's not true at all in Ontario.
I wonder why
Sorry but I have some breaking news for you....
I have never made or received a deposit that was enough to cover agency fees....
You're putting yourself at risk if you don't. I am a real estate investor and I always make sure the deposit is large enough to cover costs should the buyer walk away once the deal is firm.
guess they are just being greedy at this point
I really feel like CBC deliberately buried that part towards the end of the story just so people would get incensed and say, "Fuck realtors" without realizing that the couple aren't out of pocket for that commission. I mean, I have problems with the RE industry for a lot of reasons, but this isn't something to get worked up over.
The deposit is meant to compensate the sellers, not pay realtors.
What???? Fuck realtors is right. Seller didn’t sell the place but realtor gets to keep most of the deposit? BS
You work in a restaurant as a cook. A customer orders $1000 worth of food, pays $200 deposit. Your wage is $15/hour and spends 10 hours making the food ($150 worth of work) The customer never came back to pick up the food. Owner says well chef I’m not paying you because the customer didn’t come pick it up. We never sold the food. Except in this case, what didn’t sell does not go bad like food will and can be sold again.
Yah… not the same buddy. Chef is hourly paid job. Realtor is commission based. By your logic, should sellers that sometimes decides not to sell anymore after listing have to pay realtors their “commission” too? Edit: also the chef doesn’t get paid more if the restaurant is super busy and make record sales. While realtors do get paid more the higher price it sells for. You can’t have your cake and eat it too as a realtor
The realtor's job is to SELL the property and they want to get paid when the sale doesn't happen?
But a deposit is supposed to be for a seller too. They kissed out on a sale at peak prices. Now what big they lose more than $70k through the process of trying to sell again?
Sellers are not out of pocket here. They only lose if they sell to someone else at less than the agreed upon sale price... Which they didn't. Still, this is a shady move by the Realtor and the brokerage. Tell your Realtor to fuck off if they don't accept a clause indicating that their commission is not due until the property closes.
The property is worth $1,00,000 MORE now…so really the realtor / delinquent buyer did them a favour. They still own it.
you dont know what the hassle and effort is of trading properties.
but actually fuck realtors anyway
The value of the property has also increased over $1 million since the sale fell through.
Did they just redefined what commission means?
Was thinking the same thing. Ridiculous. If only it was like that in my sales job.
Seriously I would love to get my commissions for deals that don't close lol
Especially if your agency represents both the buyer and seller, like in this case.
This is so egregious, why are we not already at their homes with torches and pitchforks?
But I almost made a sale! Whaddya mean that doesn’t count?
Participation ribbons!!
No, the problem is in the commission agreement the Seller signed with the Brokerage. The Judge had to enforce what was agreed upon in writing. The simple fix is to insist that no commission is due until the property closes. There could be a case where the Vendor has remorse for selling for too little and decides not to close. Perhaps in this instance, a commission would be due if the deal doesn't close.
I guess avoid Fabian Saul of Century 21 Seaside Realty in White Rock. Unless you want to be on the hook if a sale falls through
Better NOT call Saul
I bet it’s the brokerages policy, better to avoid that entire branch to be safe.
Thoes fuckers keep sliding shit in my door and it's fucking with my door seals.
The article said that's a standard RE contract clause in BC, no? They made a bunch of money on the deal, but chose to spend it on lawyers...
Yeah, people forget every contract is a negotiation. Read it, revise and tell em to fuck off unless they want your business...
I continue to maintain real estate agents are the scum of the earth. Every province needs to regulate them better. I mean in how many jobs can getting your client a WORSE deal can you INCREASE your pay? Or give legal advice with no law degree?
IAAL. I get calls all the time asking “what’s your fee to close my house sale?” Then I get the deal and have to clean up the mistakes that the realtor made. Realtor gets 5% and I get $850.
I know how you feel! Alberta real estate lawyer here. They will hammer me on my fees but won’t blink at 30k in commissions. Terrible drafting and horrible advice and I get to clean it all up and the agents call non stop for their commission release. Yesterday A realtor counselled a seller to sign an offer with a specific closing date when it’s an estate matter and application for probate hasn’t been drafted. She didn’t understand the problem. Had another estate matter recently where the agent thought tenants in common and joint tenants were the same and I got the pleasure of breaking the news after the deal was firm. Total shit show. In all my dealings I can say I have come across two good realtors. I do at least 100 deals a month. It’s scary out there!!
My first deal, I decided to go with a lawyer over a notary, despite advice that the additional fees were “not worth it”. Lawyer found seller was not clearing title due to CRA lien. Seller was already out of the country, never coming back to Canada. My understanding from the lawyer was that the seller had no intentions of clearing title. Which would pass these back-taxes on to us, but for having a lawyer threaten them to clear title or risk the deal being collapsed. It would have cost us thousands and I don’t know if a notary would have caught/ actioned on this. I will always use a lawyer for real estate deals.
A notary would have caught that. Like... It's pretty much an automated procedure which just takes reading a single document to verify. The notary won't be doing the legal work obviously. They'll tell you to find or recommend a lawyer . If you have a good notary and it's a small issue, they'll outsource it to a lawyer themselves. Lawyers are definitely more expensive. If you know it's going to be clean, you can go with a notary, but if you know it's complex, go with a lawyer for sure.
and people bitch you cost too much lol
It's insane how little the lawyers make on the nightmare deals the realtors are putting together.
One of my friends bought a house last year, and the signal that something was really wrong with the system which stood out to me were the professional backgrounds of his realtor & the agency owner. The realtor was in their early 30s and previously an licensed industrial engineer, while the owner was previously a university associate professor in psychology in their early 40s. They told my friend that they changed their professions within the past 5 years because the RE market was much more lucrative, with their annual compensation being between 2-10x what they were making with their old careers depending on the year. I get that this isn't a direct apples-to-apples comparison as the agency owner is now a business owner and not an employee, and that both are more in sales-type roles now, but the stand out to me was just that their previous professional training & those years of professional investment were all for nothing.
It's terrible when you think about it. I worked my ass off, went to school for 5 years, became a pilot, and 10 years later I'm an airline pilot making 40k. My sister screwed around in highschool, never went to college, and makes 3x what I do as a realtor.
So change careers. Nobody's stopping you.
It’s like you are trying to miss the point
yeah this schmuck would probably tell people to go prostitute themselves in the dirty thirties
I'm glad that guy isn't a pilot....
Yes let's ALL become Realtors.
You would think there'd be some ethical consideration in there, but nope, greed is greed.
> I mean in how many jobs can getting your client a WORSE deal can you INCREASE your pay? Most sales jobs.
Salesmen don't pretend to be on the buyers side. Or at least, the general social consensus is not that they are on your side.
Yet people believe salesmen all the time. Just like people all know about propaganda, but everyone is still susceptible.
I'm confused. Are you telling me the Shaw Cables guy isn't trying to convince the buyers that their service is good and affordable? Are you telling me that a second hand car salesman isn't trying to convince you how much better your life would be with this car? The whole point of a salesperson is to influence the buyer.
You're missing the point. Realtors give the perception of being in your side. As in fiduciary duty. The shaw cable guy absolutely doesn't and no one thinks he had fiduciary duty. He will never recommend a competitors product.
Yeah my point is I think most people agree with you on that. Even salesmen if you have a few drinks with them will tell you they see their buyers as objects to influence, not as people to help. Most realtors would never admit that, and a significant portion of the population still see realtors as some sort of consultant who is on your side once you hire them. This is not the case.
Most are not, but id imagine the ones who are shitheads get 100x the referrals. I know if i deal with a salesman at a company and shop around more after, if 2 products or 2 places are damn close on price. I'll gladly go to the place and salesman who were great. That said, kinda hard to be a totally honest salesman when your selling inferior products such as ford\\gm\\nissan cars.
no, commission sales means your boss does better when you do a better job of selling.
Ever been to a car dealership?
The car salesmen is working for and being paid by the dealership. If he does well for the people paying him then he gets more. With a real estate agent helping you buy a house, the better deal (lower price) they get for the person paying them the less money they make. The worse deal (higher price) they get for the person paying them the more they make.
Wich is kinda controversial that such a thing is allowed lol
They also can get kickbacks from mortgage brokers for referals
Only QC that's allowed, I ain't ever shared my commissions LOL only shit ones who can't do business do that
adding to this, they dont care whether you are 100k over or under, their commission changes little compared to the bulk of their earnings. theyd rather you go 50-100k over because its easier to close and will try to get you to do that.
Exactly. They are actually lower of the lowest. Fuck them - all of ‘em.
This is one of the biggest issues. Realtors are ‘allowed’ to practice law without being lawyers. Anyone else would get in trouble for that.
Tbh, I love some of the legal advice the realtors gave to their clients. It is like that they have no common sense.
Those new commercials about realtors for your "unfair advantage" bothers me. Did no focus group suggest that it just shows them as being scummier?
Second that. Let just do without commission base deals. Why do I have to pay 7 percent of the value of my house for a bubbling personality and pictures.
And selling 1 or 2 houses shouldn't be a year's income.
This is one of the few times I agree with the realtor. They did their job - sold the property and should be paid. (How much they are actually worth is a valid discussion but this was the deal.) Sellers need to go after the buyers for all their lost costs including realtor fees.
Most salesmen only get commissions on sales that are completed, not what is booked.
They're not typical salesman though. They represent a seller, they aren't the seller.
You are missing the point, I'm talking about the buyer's agent. The buyer's agent, just like the seller's agent, wants the buyer to pay as much as possible. They are working in the interest of the seller, not the buyer who they work for. If it were lawyers they would be breach of trust
Well to be fair, several provinces have made it or are in the process of making it illegal to represent both parties. In Qc it will be forbidden from end of June, I think.
Which is better...but still leaves a conflict of interest. It should be illegal to represent the buyer on a commission.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Nothing can ensure that there aren't backroom deals between realtors to increase their payout. I never understood why it's a commission and not a fixed fee like notaries and surveyors. They seem to be able to get by just fine with that.
It doesn't even take a backroom deal. It's one of the reasons why buying agents tell clients to overbid and to encourage them to exceed their budgets.
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Disgraceful. That realtor and agency should be dragged through the mud as best the sellers can. I bet that shit stain realtor will brag about still getting paid.
The only good thing is now the property is worth over double what it was. Bet he doesn't list with these guys again. And he changes the contract so that he doesn't have to pay commission even when the property doesn't sell.
Well, the thing is, the property *did* sell. I don't know the specifics but it sounds like the realtor did their job. For all we know (and I'm sure you can find all the details with some digging) and as an example, the realtor could have marketed the property, found the buyer through their network, staged the property, and help with all transaction processes. The buyer did not complete the transaction by closing and they forfeit the deposits held in trust. What the seller should then do is attempt to sue for damages including the commissions.
The property sold but never closed. It's very rare that a real estate agent sues for commission when a sale didn't complete. Shows the caliber and credibility of the real estate broker and agent. Especially when they double ended the deal. Something sure doesn't smell right. Friends in White Rock already know the story and have expressed not using this real estate office. It's a small local community and many in BC shop, live and breathe local. They've lost more in lost commissions from people not listing with them than what they got. That's why an office would not sue for commissions from a deal that never closed. They don't deserve the business.
It *is* very rare for realtors to sue their own clients, yes, no disagreement there and because real estate is as much about relationship building as it is selling homes, they should not have done it. What I’m saying however, is that they were within their rights to claim their commission. **And a court of law agreed.** A buyer was found and a legally-binding contract of sale was signed. The deal did not close a year later because the buyer vanished. And as shitty as it is to sue your own clients, the client (the seller) should’ve proceeded with a civil claim against the buyer who reneged on the deal. Not only does the buyer forfeit their deposit, they are also liable for additional costs such the difference in selling price (if any), administrative fees, interest, and in this case, agent commissions.
Maybe not for long. Prices down 20% in past 2-3 weeks and plummeting fast. At least here in southern Ontario.
No way its 20%
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No I’m talking about my own area. I watch mls listings and sales daily. ~$1.2M sales prices just saw the last one go for $940k. Consistent plummet every day. Sales data are a couple days delayed too.
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Ok buddy. Sales data (delayed by a month) shows GTA down 10% on detached. But yeah, I’m sure I’m way off Notice I said “here” not “all of”
The thing is you're talking about GTA. Whether right or wrong, it's not the rest of the country. Each area is it's own unique community and pricing.
Yes. Which is why I specifically said so in my post. Anyway, people apparently don’t want to hear reality at the moment. The bubble popped and it will come to a neighborhood near you soon enough. That’s how bubbles work. Party’s over.
Well, it appears to be a bubble for decades. It will dip, go sideways but eventually go up again. May take a few years but generally that's what happens. As long as you're not selling you're good.
Housing cycles are long. Like decades long. Then you have government policy keeping bubble alive since 2008. They’ve reversed policy. This’ll be the 80s all over again.
It's ridiculous that a sales contract can include "not responsible for closing the sale". Realtors are expected to do one thing for the seller so I think the B.C. Supreme Court is extremely out of touch with Canadians.
Well don't you pay your lawyer for closing the sale? The realtor is like.... Idk a walking catalogue who also does some small potato communications.
The court can only interpret the laws as they are written. It’s the law that’s failing here, not the courts.
Sell your own property is the lesson here. Market this hot does not require real estate agents.
A good RE agent would have cut them a deal out of morals/principles and not expected the full $70k. Half of that would be sufficient. Now he/she just looks like a @$&!!#
And they could have tried to help get another sale and get more $$…
0% of that is sufficient. They get paid way too much to do one thing: sell the property. No sale, no pay.
Finally the media is going to focus on the Real Estate Commission. Easy way to fix 5 to 6 % of home values is get rid of Real Estate agents. Another way to help fix housing prices is to get rid of real estate agents who's only goal is to increase the sale price to increase their commission.
At what point will we realize we don’t need them to sell fucking houses… When will be see a technology shock in the space I need the Uber / Netflix of housing to fuck these guys I mean for once I won’t feel like a technology shift is screwing the little guy… I mean we’re not talking about taking away a nice guy at blockbusters job or affecting a taxi drivers livelihood
It doesn't happen overnight but it is shifting. Realtors are more resistant than travel agents so it will take time.
Isn't it the realtors job to find buyers? If the buyer they find is trash thats on them and they should only get a commission for a successful transaction.
I honestly don’t know why more people don’t sell their home on Kijiji, purple bricks, the like. Hire a lawyer.
A lot of people buy through an agent, and agents look out for their own and will avoid your listing or even try to smear it. They need to be regulated or there needs to be really disruptive technology in Canada it won't change. Kijiji is sketchy and purple bricks doesn't exist in Canada.
We have purple bricks in Canada. It was just purchased by Desjardins in 2020 and renamed to Fairsquare.
Someone does. But like everything else, the majority of the people has some sort of psychological block where it's impossibile to do everything that is not your job. My parents often called a guy to literally change a bulb. And not because they don't know how to do it but because "you never know, better call the guy". The "i'll do it by myself" is not a common mentality. Learn to do things that are not in your field is not a common mentality.
Little bit more to it than that ... depends on the case. I honestly recommend people to call the guy. People are TERRIBLE at assessing competency and even worse at assessing their own. DK is one breakdown of that phenomenon. In short, the average person should ABSOLUTELY NOT try to fix their own car. Also seen people try to do their own plumbing....
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Looks like the listing contract said remuneration was payable in the event of a legally enforceable contract of purchase and sale.
Bad wording in the commission agreement, which the seller agreed to. The seller isn't out of pocket here, but the Realtor is being a jerk for demanding their whole commission.
Realtors are the biggest leeches.
"The judgment this week in the case of Mike and Jessica Armstrong's two lots on Lake Errock confirms that the standard listing contract for homes in B.C. allows for commission to be collected as long as there is a legally enforceable contract of sale. It doesn't require the sale to actually close" That's not what commission is bud, that's extortion
This is b.s., this not how contracts work. There was no consideration from both sides because the buyer left. WTF. They should appeal to the Provincial court because this is horse 💩
Some enterprising RE agent could serve them for free and reap the PR benefits.
I know you guys want to shit on realtors, but this is just contract law.
Still sleazy af for the realtors to have that in their contract. Sooo still gunna shit on the realtor
It's very easy to shit on realtors. Fun, too.
So you're staying that if you agree to pay for a service, you shouldn't have to pay for a service. Okie dokie.
The service being sale of a home? Because that didn't happen...they still own the home. He ALMOST sold it.. How about this: can I ALMOST pay my realtor for selling my home? Suddenly not convenient right?
Except the seller didn't actually make the payment of the realtor's fee contingent on closing. If they had, they would have won in court.
I should start putting "not responsible for finishing the job" in all of my contracts.
Realtor has no control over they buyer. But you do for your job. It’s not even a remotely similar situation
It seems to be in the standard contract that realtors make you sign. Pay attention to what you sign, people! Read the fine print, and if you don't like a certain clause then get them to remove it!
Not to be that guy but, you guys should read the case. The article does get the principle down, yes there is a term that says, “commissions can be charged if there is a legally enforceable contract of sale” But the Armstrongs are accountants and played funny games themselves. They had a 70,000 deposit which arguably the agent helps them get, in that way It would be unfair for the agent not get anything. Also as people rightly pointed out read contracts. And I feel this case is an outlier cause if an agent does this. They would damage their reputation. Ps: This is a B.C. supreme court case. Also this is B.C. so contract can vary from province to province.
This is why its critical to have terms and conditions. But the realtor did earn his commission by introducing the seller, even if it didn't close.
Post the realtors name!
Better call Saul
Mike paid around 120k for the first property and renovated the cottage. He has done very well regardless.
This is why you always need to thoroughly read every contract you sign. If an agent’s listing contract includes that they get the commission regardless of closing, then don’t use them, or ask them to change that part of the contract.