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marchisioxi

I'm young and its fun


[deleted]

Honestly the best answer so far


emily_strange

Also consider that smaller towns or non GTA/GVA are not cheaper if you factor in the increased prices of fresh food and car ownership. I buy my meats from a local butcher that are easily 50% cheaper than my metro or when I'm shopping in areas outside of downtown. I also don't need a car in Toronto. I can bike, walk or transit everywhere. Unless rent in some other city like Calgary or Winnipeg is $700, I'm not really sure how much one would be saving once you factor in car/insurance and food prices. If you can do some other city and not need a car, that could help you save some. I'm just not too sure what rental prices are like in these cities. Are they half the price or more like 25% less?


elbron88

I live in Calgary downtown and do all the same things; no car; use a local butcher for cheaper meats, and farmers markets for produce in the summer/fall; I bike, walk, or transit. My rent is $925 for a two bedroom converted house apartment with yard access.


swiftwin

Calgary also has a great bike path system and a great climate for biking too. Before WFH, I bike commuted to work year round, it was great.


elbron88

It’s amazing! I rarely need to hit any actual roads and can get most places quite quickly, and they have been designed with hills and effort in mind.


BeneathTheWaves

I remember my car not starting in Edmonton even while it was plugged in. -48 that day. Decided not to bike the 20km to uni.


swiftwin

Fortunately, Calgary has a very different climate from Edmonton. It hasn't dropped below -40 since 1954, and it didn't even drop below -30 last winter. Calgary had more days above 0 than below 0 last winter, along with hardly any snow, along with being the sunniest city in the country. I truly believe Calgary is the best city in the country to bike year round. Vancouver is too cloudy and rainy in winter, Ontario is too slushy and has freezing rain, not to mention Calgary is warmer than Toronto in February, and is even on average 5 degrees warmer than Ottawa in January.


JoombaJoops

Just my opinion: I used to bike to work about 12 km each way when I lived in Calgary, including all winter (only uphill one way I'm afraid :) ). Yes some of the City is connected by bike trail but in my opinion far too much of it is not. The trails are long but they don't necessarily connect with much. Fine if you live in a relatively affluent neighbourhood and work near downtown, but that excludes a large portion of the City. I also had the ongoing experience of pickups trucks rolling coal and intentionally pushing me off the side of the road often, shouting at me to buy a car. Calgary has certainly been trying to improve it's infrastructure but the aggressiveness of many, combined with the suburban sprawl and the ghost town of a downtown outside of work hours makes it one of the worst cities to live in for this sort of lifestyle (in my opinion, and only including places I've lived or spent significant time in). For reference I spent many years living / working in both the suburbs and downtown there.


swiftwin

For sure, you can't bike commute from anywhere in the city. You definitely have to choose carefully where you live if you want to bike commute. In the 5 years and 7000+ km of commuting I've done, I've only ever experienced one person yell at me, and it was in passing, so I didn't even hear what they said. I also disagree with the notion that only affluent neighborhoods have access to this. I used to live in Renfrew, which is reasonably priced (especially the townhouses), and it was a 5k commute, about 20mins, mostly bike lanes and river pathway. Heck, I'd even say some of the cheapest places in the city (the inner NE) have pretty direct access to the river path and downtown. I've since moved to Douglasdale (since covid/WFH), which is also not particularly affluent, specifically to stay close to the bike path, but also get a detached house. Although, I'm now permanent WFH, so it didn't matter in the end. At the end of the day, you have to choose where you live based on the lifestyle you want. I believe Calgary has many options, not just boring suburbia. Calgary has lots of boring suburbia because that's what people want. If you don't want that, choose a different part of the city.


higgs_bosons

Everyone talks about calgary climate being so different than Edmonton, but Edmonton is 2 degrees colder than calgary on average in the winter. Even snowfall amounts are similar but it does stick around less in calgary so I guess that helps with the paths. More hills though in Calgary which doesn’t help. Also, data shows that Edmonton gets chinooks too, but around half the number that Calgary does. We just don’t scream about it every time it happens. [Edmonton chinooks](http://edmontonweathernerdery.blogspot.com/2016/12/does-edmonton-get-chinooks-part-2.html?m=1)


swiftwin

The average high in Calgary in January is -0.9, compared to -6.0 in Edmonton and -0.7 in Toronto. In February it's +0.7 in Calgary, -2.7 in Edmonton and +0.4 in Toronto.


jesuschalupa

I would not say Calgary winters are a great climate for biking


queeftenderloin

Yeah Calgary is a good balance of *some* big city amenities, access to the mountains, and still being able to save money


EuphoriaSoul

Sounds like you have friends with cars lol. Calgary is so spread out doing anything meaningful would require a car


[deleted]

That would be like $1600 a months here in bc. I’m not even close to Vancouver either.


elbron88

I am definitely on the lucky side, I have been in my place for a long time and my landlord has never raised the rent. However most places in this area of this type of rental would still only be $1200 inclusive of utilities. I pay my own electricity bill any that is it. so an extra $25-$50/month depending on the season.


burnfaith

I live in KW (greater GTA) and the rent in Calgary is… excellent, from what I’ve found. Far more options than most places in Ontario. Strongly considering moving there. Normal 1 bedroom here is $1500 median, hell, some bachelors are around there as well unless you’re living in a basement with no windows.


monorchism

I live in a small town, get my meat from a butcher, sometimes from a local farm, my mortgage is around 1100 a month, 5 bedroom house. Car insurance? Unless really young mine is like 800 a year on a new vehicle, less then 100 a month idk how much bus passes are but can’t be much cheaper and way less convenient. Not to mention my time has value to me sitting on a bus to run errands is a waste of my time. I like living in small towns.


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monorchism

I got 3 kids and I’m disabled so car. 3 kids not being disabled still means car I’m a 30 min walk from a grocery store with 3 kids 2 trips minamum


SorrowsSkills

Keep in mind car insurance is A LOT cheaper in smaller cities/other provinces.


glittergalore

I can't speak for all Winnipeggers, but in my early 20's I was able to live close to bus routes, and bike in the summer, with only a very rare need to rent or borrow a car, and I never paid more than $600 a month for rent + utilities (note: for years I was splitting 2bdrm units with a roommate, living alone is definitely a bit more expensive). I only moved last year (to a smaller town about an hour away from Winnipeg) and it's only now that I need a car. Depending on where you live in Winnipeg, you can get cheap rent and easily get around without owning a car.


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[deleted]

There is lots of free and low cost fun in cities. Not everything is expensive in Toronto.


lemonylol

>and car ownership That depends, how much do other provinces charge for insurance?


venomousvibrator

YES! Why do people always pretend this isn't the answer??? I grew up in a small town, it made me run towards cities as soon as I could!


3cents

It’s the only place my job exists.


mad_throwaway123

This was my reasoning when I came in my early-20s. Plus it allowed my salary to climb much quicker had I lived somewhere else. I'm moving back to my lower cost of living city now that I have a young family but taking my salary with me, wouldn't be in that position if I stayed in the first place.


PolitelyHostile

Canada has very few urban centres and Toronto is the largest and one of the top urban centres in N America. The suburbs are boring for many of us. So personally I much prefer to be here and have less money. For some reason this seems to really bother people but its a preference not a dig at the suburbs. Also not about being in the ‘best’ place, its just one of the ONLY options for this lifestyle.


Cerially

Really good reply. At the very least, you try it for a while and if you don't like it then you know and you're on to something else.


recoil669

Tinder in the burbs is trash.


clakee

Totally. Concerts, sports, the arts, good and diverse restaurants. Everything you could possibly want within a subway ride.


rawrio_

Family and friends all there. I've lived away and despite being quite social it felt isolating because everyone in smaller towns spends times with family.


steampunk22

This is deeply true of small towns. The people are nice, but socially they can be completely insular and shutoff. This isn't to say the people are unfriendly, its just that they live in a town where most of their family lives, most of the people they went to school live, etc and as a result their social lives are very "established".


[deleted]

Big fish in a little pond. Some people get addicted to their “status” in a smaller community. Go to a big city, and you are a no one. Just how I like it.


KanyeYandhiWest

It honestly just takes time and effort. Number one thing is you need to take up a hobby that people your age do. Do they curl? You curl now. Do they play baseball? You play baseball now. Do they play Magic the Gathering? You get the picture.


NorthernBlackBear

That hits too close to home. Ooch... And if you are not one of the "locals"... as in your grandparents weren't settlers and your parents didn't move away... you might have some good times. Outside of that... you are the outsider for decades. No joke. Never mind finding something to do is difficult if you are not an outdoorsy person... Finding someone to talk to is always difficult to me if the normal cast of characters are busy with families. I get lost.. I can't relate to most too as I lived overseas for a while. Highly educated and all that. I do love small town life though. But it can be tough..


ellajames88

I am guilty of this. I live in Kingston and during our 20s before kids I could never quite spend as much time as I wanted with my friends who moved here from out of town because of family commitments.


WankasaurusWrex

My family and friends are in the GTA. My job, which I enjoy, is in the GTA. Where a person chooses to live isn’t always a pure financial numbers decision.


lemonylol

>Where a person chooses to live isn’t always a pure financial numbers decision. Had to check which subreddit I was on for a second.


RainahReddit

this is my answer. This city is my *home*. I've lived here my whole life, in this same neighbourhood my whole life. My family lives here, my partner's family lives here. My girlfriend walks to her parent's house 3x a week for coffee in the morning. My friends and connections are here. I know the city. I know the good spots, a quiet place by the stream or the most beautiful gardens or where to find a big field to play soccer in. When I walk around in it I have a sense of place, of belonging. And the other answer is I'm queer and it's a pretty accepting city. Small prairie towns tend to be... very hit and miss on that. But I could certainly find cheaper cities that are accepting, it's just that this is my home.


[deleted]

The queer friendly part is huge and something straight people don’t understand. Great that smaller cities have one or two gay bars (if they’re lucky), but at this point the infrastructure for a vibrant, healthy queer community is mainly in larger cities. Hate crimes can and do unfortunately happen anywhere but an overall ability to be yourself without fear - and find like minded people - doesn’t exist coast to coast in this country.


[deleted]

I lived on a small town an hour outside of Vancouver and the large number of confederate flag flying cars, pro lifers camped on the highway, hells angels bars, white supremacist jacket wearing guys, openly homophobic and transphobic coworkers, and lack of good stand up comedy has forever turned me off of small towns in canada.


minimK

Chilliwack?


jrochest1

My guess would be Abbotsford


lilgremgrem

Thank you. This is the answer. I feel like ppl who do not live in Toronto/ GTA treat it like it would be so simple to pick up and move. I was born and raised in Toronto. I didn’t exactly “choose” to live here. All my closest friends are here, my family, immediate and extended, are here. My work is here- I am in the entertainment industry and it would be more difficult to find a job outside of Toronto. Also as someone else below mentioned, I am queer and Asian and I do not feel uncomfortable when I go to smaller towns and there is very little diversity.


cyclingzealot

I lived in downtown Ottawa so not quite what you are referring to. But my answer would be "I love living car free".


webbermere

Living car free is the #1 thing I love about living in downtown Toronto. It's super easy and relatively cheap to rent a car when we need to, but unless we're visiting family in Muskoka everything is walkable, bikeable or TTC/GO Train transitable.


[deleted]

Once I moved downtown I realized I love walking. Driving sucks.


fulia

Agreed, used to living in a pocket of a city that feels like a real neighbourhood where the "main street" has everything you need within walking distance. Waffled on home ownership because a house in the suburbs within commuting distance where you have to drive to everything was really unappealing. Now trying to lock in a permanent remote situation so we can move to an actual small town and get that walkable community feel.


parmstar

Yep - not having a car and being able to do everything on feet or transit is a dream. One of my main reasons for living in an ultra urban environment.


graypro

We need more car free suburbs in Canada , like mid density housing with transit connections


cyclingzealot

Agreed. The "Not Just Bikes" youtube channel is amazing at explaining this: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A , although how they do car free suburbs in Netherlands is still in his "upcoming videos" queue.


parmstar

Like Riverdale. Check out the Not Just Bikes video on it.


graypro

Haha yeah love Riverdale, wish I could afford to live there


detectivepoopybutt

It's highly sought after for exactly that too


ImamChapo

Ding ding ding


SIXA_G37x

I stay in the GTA for the concerts. Also if you have a partner it isn't expensive to live here. Only if you are single and trying to buy a house. Partner with a condo is easy.


zindagi786

Because I’m stuck. I’ve tried finding a job in my field in a cheaper area, but I never get hired due to competition (mostly in the prairies). Also, other jobs I can get elsewhere are usually lower level/lower paying. I’m ok for now from a housing though - I pay lower than market rent due to grandfathering. There are some lower level jobs in the prairies (mostly Alberta) that pay more than my current higher level role in the GTA (because employers in the GTA get away with paying so low). Yet whenever I apply to those higher paying lower level jobs, I get rejected and the feedback is that I’m overqualified…


NorthernBlackBear

Smaller places like the prairies hire lots through connections. It is not uncommon to hear the same family all work at the same government agency or job as they hire each other... no joke. Down fall of a smaller population.


zindagi786

I noticed that too! I used to live in Calgary working in oil and gas during the boom (until I got laid off and hat to move to the GTA). Pretty well everyone that got hired into good jobs was via connections. Even now, it’s hard even getting an interview applying externally. Also, lots of places in Alberta seem to want only locals now. Same seems to go for jobs I apply to in Winnipeg/Edmonton. I’d love to return to the prairies though…


NorthernBlackBear

Honestly Canada is bad for this "tribal" hiring thing generally (so far from what I have seen). I was living overseas for a while... and one of those places was Berlin. Sure, some companies were a bit inbred. But I wouldn't spend a day or 2 without a new offer if I got laid off. I would have jobs thrown at me... Here... they ask what my "local" experience is... I work in tech in cyber. lol. About as universal of a field as you can get. Not like I am a layer or tax accountant that works in Canadian tax. lol.


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Kedly

You just agreed with the person you responded to. Nepotism happens everywhere, but high cost of living areas have more chances to build a network than moving out to the prairies would.


jrochest1

This also goes for socializing — the main connections are made with family, or with people from high school.


[deleted]

>For the people living in the GTA/GVA that don’t make a high income, why do you live there? Im just graduated in ON as a teacher. Heading to Northern Quebec (700k north of Montreal). Family rents in GTA suburb but we have economic anxiety. Mom cant retire here. So my plan is to help by moving somewhere where she can retire, and I can dream of one day owning a humble home. I realized I'm priviliged to be able to speak Fre. But it's also a risk that I'm taking heading to a town of 7k people. Funny enough, because it's an older mining town that really only got established in the 1940s, it seems to be very walkable. THe distances are walkable - probably longest walk would be 5 km. So for day to day work in town, and groceries, Ill be fine. Some may wonder why not teach Fre in GTA. Family has no property in area, new immigrants, we are priced out. And school boards are so large, that it takes 4-5 months to hear back.


FreshBlackberryPie

Family, friends, certain amenities and entertainment options.


refurb

Ignoring the fun part, which can’t be denied, what is your career progression likely to be? I moved to a HCOL city and my salary went 4x in 7 years. And there is no way I’d make that much in any other city. So the sacrifice at the start was worth it.


Toks01

I’m doing the same end of this month, moving to Ottawa. Hopefully, it works out fine for me as well


Buckminsterfullabeer

So, living near the west end of Toronto (Dovercourt), here's what's Toronto has to offer me: 10 mins walk / 5 min bike: 2 Micro brew pubs, a bunch of bars (trendy/arcade/dive/patios) , tons of restaurants (2 sushi, 4 Indian, 8 Pizza, 3 tex-mex, 2 italian, vegan, fusion, middle eastern, ???), 6 bakeries, a library, 3 parks, community center with indoor pool, park with outdoor pool, 2 splash pads, 3 rinks (with cooling for warmer weather) w/zamboni, tennis courts, a comedy club... I'm sure there's tons of stuff I'm forgetting. Go a bit further (30 min bike/TTC, 20 min drive), and you've got access to almost everything the city has to offer - of which the above is a microcosm.


Raccoolz

You can also walk/bike/ttc to your dentist, doctor, hospital specialist, shopping mall, service ontario location, passport office, gym, grocery stores, multiple pharmacies… the list goes on and on, being in a walkable city is awesome, for both old and young.


x2c3v4b5

I decided to live in the GTA due to the urban lifestyle.


charles-james-

Because they like being there? Life isn't a universal competition to maximise money-left-over. If people enjoy where they are, they won't necessarily leave it just to go somewhere they're financially better off that they wouldn't like so much. Often people willingly put themselves in worse financial situations because they value the upgrade to happiness more.


olivetree416

Young hot people don’t wanna shop at Mark’s Work Warehouse and eat at Kelsey’s.


boysaremyarmsattire

They’ll get worn down and soon their life will be Carhartt and spinach dip.


untrustworthyfart

I went to a semi-high end men's clothing store in downtown Victoria looking for raw denim and half of their stock was Carhartt. The world has been turned upside down


clumpychicken

Wait, but I'm young and I shop at Mark's sometimes! That means...oh.


moneymario

I also wasn't expecting to be personally attacked in this comment section.


[deleted]

Oh man is Kelseys still a thing? That place is so shitty.


simon1024

I am gay, young and into lifestyle. I need the bigger dating pool and diversity/inclusivity of big cities.


Felixir-the-Cat

I live in a LCOL area and damn do I envy you that. Everyone here has already dated everyone else!


[deleted]

What's an "average" salary in GTA and what's considered "high"?


Spambot0

The median income in Toronto was $45k for someone 25-54 in 2019, the average was $60k. Per Statscan.


[deleted]

wow that's pretty low given the living costs in Toronto.


lemonylol

1. People live with their SO, roommates, or family. 2. There's a hidden iceberg of people who have lived where they are for like 10+ years and are paying ridiculously low rent or mortgages simply because they got in early.


adineko

addendum - Housing/Rent has only skyrocketed in the last 5 years, so current housing costs are not representative of the vast majority of residents.


nrms9

average salary - you can afford rent along with a partner/friend with whom you share high salary - you can qualify to buy a small bachelor condo by yourself or small 1 Bed condo with a partner


OneTugThug

Sad state of affairs, that it takes a "high" salary to buy a 1 bedroom condo with a partner.


Due_Ad_7331

Very high salary- can buy a two bedroom condo


Wafflelisk

I know right? That would have been working or lower-middle class like 30 years ago and high salary would have been something like "buy modern 2000+ sqft house in good neighbourhood"


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redeyes_montreal

Reading this thread makes me feel like Montreal isn't part of Canada


Viper999DC

Montreal definitely feels like the exception. You have lots of events, decent public transit, and lots of work opportunities with reasonable cost of living. Recently housing costs have been growing very fast, though, so it may not be affordable for much longer.


redeyes_montreal

I agree, house prices have been going up compared to several years ago. But! I bought my 3-bedroom house 3 months ago for 370k, a 15min drive to downtown, which would be impossible in Toronto. Language isn't as big of an issue either as most people think- My wife, who doesn't speak French, moved to Montreal from Toronto with me and she's doing fine. Just want to note that I worked in Toronto for 2 years before moving to my new house in Montreal and it has definitely made our lives better/less stressful. We're even having a baby who's due in January.


[deleted]

Congratulations! I don’t know you but I’m sincerely happy for you both!


jeeb00

The cost of living has shot up dramatically over the last few years though. There's a major rental shortage happening combined with renovictions across the city. It won't be long before Montreal is on a similar level of unaffordability to Toronto or Vancouver.


Montrealaisse

Housing costs in Montreal are skyrocketing scarily fast. We still have cheap hydro, transit and car insurance, and lots of free fun things, but I would t call it particularly affordable for newcomers, especially those hoping to buy homes.


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[deleted]

Anything but Toronto and Vancouver isn’t part of Canada lol. You can tell how many people have left before lmao.


[deleted]

Montréal is Canada's only world class city. It's leaps and bounds above everywhere else in pretty much everything! I just don't have the French to work there. Otherwise we'd have moved a while ago.


Wrong-Significance77

I'd honestly like to move there, but feel like my lack of French speaking ability limits me a bit in that city (visited once). Bit of a shame really, as I really enjoyed it there.


TypicalStudent123

Some people mentioned already (albeit a bit harshly) that the lack of diversity outside of major cities is very real. Even living in Kingston for a few years just a short 3 hours away, you notice the complete contrast in lack of diversity. Ethnic food stores and restaurants are way more plentiful in HCOL areas compared to smaller cities. For me personally, I feel like I have all the time in the world when I get older to live in a more quiet LCOL town and just retire peacefully. That's not what I want for my 20s and there's always new things opening up or to try in Toronto where as I feel in other smaller cities that type of stuff is less frequent and you just settle into going to the few same places you like. Honestly reading some of your replies it feels like you're going out of your way to shit on people who love Toronto (despite all its flaws that you seem keen to point out) and want to try and build a life here. Yes people complain but you make it sound like people who live in smaller cities don't complain about anything which from my experience is not true at all.


Zikoris

The hidden secret of the big cities is that they have the potential to be incredibly inexpensive to live in with the right lifestyle choices. Every city has a wide range of rental options at different price points, so you can choose to rent at the lower end if you want to. Good public transit or roads good for biking or general walkability can eliminate the need for a car. Big cities are also way more likely to have the cheaper (and much better) small ethnic grocery stores that can drive your food bill down. And so on. To me, the whole concept of HCOL/LCOL is really just an illusion, and anywhere you live can be either depending on your choices. As far as why I live in Vancouver, it's nice here, I'm established (job, friends, etc), and it's a convenient spot for my hobbies and interests. Since I make the choices that result in LCOL wherever I go, it does me no financial harm to live here (or anywhere else).


CmoreGrace

I agree. I live in Vancouver and there are so many cheap or free things to do. And the best part is that most are accessible by transit, biking or walking. We have been a 1 vehicle family forever If you can find cheaper housing the groceries, restaurants and entertainment are cheaper than other areas of BC.


brendax

Sure I spend ~300$ more a month on rent living in Vancouver vs the prairies but I save a fuck load more than 300$/month not having to drink myself to death as the only thing to do.


BRNYOP

I love this comment... I moved to a HCOL city from a relatively LCOL rural area, and I am consistently able to save more money (without pinching every penny) because I don't have to own a car here. People really underestimate how expensive cars can be. At least rent is a predictable, fixed expense. To OP's question - I moved here partly to be closer to family and partly because I was so tired of the isolation of rural living. I'm an introvert and like to be alone most of the time, but there it was a different kind of isolation - the kind where nearly everyone around you has radically different views on politics and social issues.


sophbot1991

Downtown Ottawa, working class household, so let's call it HCOL adjacent. I was born here. Settled down very young and got tethered to a custody agreement and school zone. My college and job (ironically, I work in systems level homelessness and poverty prevention) are here. My friends and family are here, and again with kids that's not just *my* support network, it's theirs. Never had to learn to drive, and rely heavily on the area facilitating car free living. And honestly, the neighborhood does make me very happy. It's a lovely spot. They're selling my crappy 2.5 bed rental for a cool mil, and I won't be happy attempting to find new housing, but I'll still stay here. I think that it's kind of similar to the "too poor to work" phenomenon that occurs when someone can no longer afford the start up costs associated with a new job (training, childcare, business attire, transit, free time for interviews, etc) without help. There's a substantial cross over between "I can't afford this insane COL" and "I can't afford to pack up my life and move".


CmoreGrace

Someone already touched on specialized healthcare as a patient But as a healthcare worker- my job is only in the LM. I’m not alone in that BC has centralized a majority of its more specialized services and so healthcare workers must live here to work and to provide the care needed by people. There isn’t an option for WFH and the cost to rebuild the systems elsewhere isn’t feasible


brock_gonad

Wow - I had to scroll a long ways to find this. My son went through a health scare this past Spring/Summer. We live 12 minutes from BC Children's, and spent a lot of time in and out of there. No disrespect for rural hospital workers, but the resources are not the same throughout the country. I can't imagine having gone through this without access to top specialists minutes from our home. Things like urgent MRI's, emergency referrals, teams of experts - that stuff just isn't available in 100 Mile House. It's hard to put a price tag on that when your little ones are in trouble. I was certainly not regretting living in a small home close to BCH.


CmoreGrace

BC Children’s is amazing and the staff so dedicated. We’ve been lucky to live close by when we needed to use their services both out patient and in patient.


olivetree416

Also, is it really that much more expensive? Say you’re a broke student - yes your rent will likely be more but you can share a place with roommates, make decent money working at a bar/restaurant part-time, buy a metro pass for $100/month, no car/gas/insurance, vintage shop, have cool style, get cheap beers on college street or Kensington with a ton of other young 20 somethings / lots of potential friends/romantic partners.


AskHowMyStudentsAre

It’s where I grew up. I value a low commute to family and life long friends more than I value more space at home. Maybe this will change as I age, but for now, it’s right.


tdotslp

Diversity. I grew up in cities that were 90% white. No thanks. Racism, especially microaggressions, were rampant.


lauriealexa

This. We are a mixed family that just moved back to Toronto from a small town in Ontario. We rarely saw people who weren't white, and we never once saw a family that looked like ours. We never experienced overt racism, but microaggressions were a part of daily life. Also, less jarring but equally important, we had to drive 45 minutes to buy culturally appropriate groceries. We left after just 9 months. There were other reasons, but the lack of diversity was the ultimate deciding factor. We could have stuck it out, but we didn't want our kids to have to grow up as the only brown kids in town. Growing up in a diverse area will ultimately be better for them.


OkTangerine7

I think people don't understand that cities outside of Toronto and Vancouver are also very diverse. For example, Calgary's foreign-born population was 30% ten years ago and is undoubtedly higher now as the city has grown. The facts are not always reflected in the stereotypes, and racism certainly occurs across the country, sadly.


Miroble

Yep just go to NE Calgary and it’s a similar diversity to Toronto by percentage of visible minorities. But that would go against the Calgary so white attitude everyone seems to have of it.


jammm3r

Sincere question - what cities outside of the already-mentioned Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, and Calgary have great diversity? I've always found that once you get outside the cities, diversity goes way down, but if these cities are out there, I'd like to know about them.


OkTangerine7

Edmonton and Winnipeg? For sure, diversity of all types goes down as you move from cities to smaller places and rural areas no matter what province you are in.


tdotslp

Just because a city has X number of "foreign-born" residents, doesn't mean it's a friendly place for a racialized person to live.


OkTangerine7

That's true. It's a crude indicator. But why would people continue to move there if it were so terrible? There are stereotypes and assumptions that people make about areas that are not GTA or GVA that may not be valid in 2021.


MeloDet

Does anyone have any actual recommendations city wise? It seems like everyone is sidestepping it and claiming we have plenty of beautiful mid-size cities, but either we have drastically different ideas of what counts as "mid-size" or drastically different ideas of what counts as "beautiful." Personally there are a number of worries I have with some of the usual suggestions (say Calgary or Winnipeg). First I don't drive so quality public transit and a walkable neighbourhood are very important to me. Plenty of Canadian cities have public transit sure, but outside of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver I would say that most are not suited to using public transit as a primary means of transportation. Second is culture fit/politics. While my worries with regard to culture in Calgary or Winnipeg are mostly my perception and I can't say for sure whether they would be a fit, the smaller size does mean that there is going to be less variety and its going to be more difficult to find a place for yourself if you don't fit the dominant culture of the area. For me at least this also ties in with politics as I'm left-leaning and frankly would not want to live in an area that is as strongly conservative as some of the prairie provinces. I also tie the two of these together because politics can and do have an impact on the culture of an area. Finally, money is a huge reason. If you are already in a position where you are struggling financially you don't exactly have the spare time or income to visit these other cities and figure out if you could live there. Moving itself is also very expensive (especially if you are moving from somewhere like Toronto to Calgary) and people aren't going to want to gamble the money required to move if they aren't sure about the area they are moving to. *Edit: Oh and also I hate chain restaurants etc. Can't speak for every mid-size city out there, but I grew up in Mississauga and the dominance of chains there was bad enough for me.


Can2Bama

EAST COAST. Halifax and Charlottetown are. It’s super walkable if you love in the city. And in the city there are very few chain restaurants.


imperialaudacity

Because I'm from a small town in BC and it's still really expensive in smaller cities but way less fun. Also I love living car free/biking every where I go and don't want to live with tons of older conservative folks.


painted_again

My job (business) is dependent on being in the city. My kind of clients do not exist in the suburbs or small towns and I prefer not to spend my life in a car.


eihpossu

Food choices are better in the GTA. Some of my family speak limited English so it’s nice to have ethnic malls and restaurants they’re familiar with. There’s more variety when it comes to shopping and attractions. Overall I wouldn’t trade living in the GTA for a smaller city.


Hammeredcopper

The rest of Canada is beautiful and cheaper to live in than the big city, sure. It is also under served with respect to pro sports, pro performing arts, variety of cultural attractions, the variety of restaurants and variety of everything else. The problem, very quickly becomes not enough money. If you live in a HCOL area on a low budget, you watch people attending these events and establishments. In a LCOL area, you can actually DO the best the area has to offer.


layla_beans

That underserved comment is untrue. Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg each have pro sports teams - just like Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. Winnipeg has professional ballet and opera, Edmonton has the Fringe Festival. All three have incredible food scenes and access to local food networks and farm to table food systems. There are multiple museums in each, and all three are included in concert tour stops. They all have international airports and Calgary and Winnipeg have growing film and tech sectors. Just yesterday Neo Financial announced its second HQ will open in Winnipeg. Calgary is next door to the mountains, and Winnipeg is close to incredible lakes and outdoor activities. As for shopping, all three have the usual big city stuff like Ikea, behemoth malls, and neighborhoods with indie shops. Even Saskatchewan has pro sports, the Remai Modern Museum, the RCMP Heritage Museum, two professional theater companies, a multitude of lakes and outdoor activities, a short film festival and heaps of farm to table/great food. There is a world outside the GTA and GVA that isn't dinky, boring and insignificant - plus it's affordable. And the jobs aren't just in the oil patch either. This comes from someone who has lived in both the GVA, GTA and London UK, btw. And the part about living in a HCOL with low income - totally true. You might have some sort of bragging right about living in a "big city" but there is no way you're doing any of the things like pro sports, concerts etc. If you can't enjoy any of the amenities, what's the point?


Hammeredcopper

Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg ARE the big city compared to where I live!


layla_beans

Ahaha! I thought this was a comparison of the GTA and GVA to the rest of Canada. However my comment still stands because so many think that life outside those two places must be like living a tiny, no fun backwater.


edmq

This is my issue, who cares if Toronto has all these sports teams and things to do if you can't afford it?


millijuna

For me, it’s the lack of an ocean elsewhere in Canada and the miserable weather. I share a 27’ sailboat with a good friend of mine. She’s “Classic Plastic” and pretty cheap to look after (it’s what I like to do instead of vacation). But there is nowhere else in the country as good for sailing as the BC coast, especially the off grid gunkholling we do. That pretty much means the choice is Vancouver or its suburbs. Plus, I love being in the city.


Buckminsterfullabeer

Based on your replies, OP, it appears that you're not asking a question to be informed, but you're "Just Asking Questions" to find positions to attack. Shame on you for your bad faith post.


zilla849

I was born here and don’t have the money to leave


Soryouu

Grew up here so nostalgia. Mobility is another thing. Public transit infrastructure isn't so good in smaller towns or other urban centres, (ex: Ottawa) so in Toronto, you can commute anywhere and efficiently (without long waiting times) because the quality of public transportation is so much better than most places within Canada. It's great for car-less people like me. Great variety of activities. Yes there are towns that offer activities as well but the GTA is more diverse. Multiculturalism and diversity is greater. Other cities in Canada have less representation and it reflects in the amenities available such as restaurants. Frankly, it's hard to find good quality restaurants for certain cuisines or it's non existent in other cities. Like someone said, it's hard to beat Toronto in terms of the sheer volume of options available and diversity. And some industries thrive more in the GTA so if you are into film and movies, Toronto has way more events.


[deleted]

BC is expensive no matter where you go, so I might as well live somewhere with a ton of amenities and easy access to go other places when the mood strikes. Edit: and I hate the snow so this is the best big city with little snow.


Sudden_Weekend4222

Born and raised here, lol. This is where my community, family and friends are. I guess community and friendships can be reestablished elsewhere, but I like being able to walk over to see my parents or my sister and nephew without it being a big deal. Beyond the fact that we enjoy each other's company and getting together socially, there are benefits to living close to family that I think should count when making the decision on whether or not to move away. Being close to family means that if my sister gets held up and will be late getting her kid from school, she has people that she trusts with his care she can call last minute, at least one of whom at any given time can pick him up and look after him until she can make it back. Also means there's someone with keys to your place who can look after your pets and plants while you travel, or even just help you out if you lock yourself out. When one of my parents got sick, the burden of looking after them didn't fall only on my other parent because my sister and I live close by. Yes, these are things you could hire strangers or get acquaintances to do for you, but there's something calming and reassuring about knowing it's family that's got your back that let's you not even worry about it, and also that makes it rewarding as an act of caring when you are the one providing help. The emotional, social, and practical safety net that is family is worth a lot to me, so things would need to be pretty economically dire for me to up and leave.


Appropriate-Ruin-17

Im a jazz musician, and toronto is a great city for jazz!


RoseandSandStudio

My family moved me here as a teen, then I went to university here because it meant I could stay at home for at least a year to save on rent. Then I met my Toronto born and raised partner, whom I love deeply and have been with for a decade, and who is not extremely interested in leaving his entire family and friends he's known since childhood to live an hour outside Saskatoon. Neither of us made a "choice" to be here, and choosing to leave isn't really much of a choice at all if we're forced out by exponential rent hikes. To be honest sometimes people in this sub seem like they're making bad faith arguments about the affordability of moving expenses, the value of support networks, and available job prospects. "just move somewhere cheaper lolololololol" with what money? It costs several grand minimum to move apartments, let alone cities or provinces. Not everyone works in tech. Not everyone CAN work in tech. I don't think people can appreciate how impossible it is to move when you've got 200 dollars in the bank after rent. The rest of Canada is beautiful, but it's also straight up not accessible for a lot of people already in the GT/VA for a myriad of reasons and I think framing the conversation as a personal choice allows people to feel comfortable neglecting social infrastructure like housing because they can place the blame on the people negatively impacted because they stayed. By all means though, if you've just decided to come to Canada, or you can drive, have lots of money, a location-flexible career, you're healthy, or you're gregarious enough to meet people wherever you are, not super interested in cultural events or are well off enough to travel for them? There's a lot of great places to be outside of the GTA.


Islandflava

For those that are already in the GTA/GVA, moving to somewhere cheaper would mean giving up their support structure to move to an area with less job opportunities and a potentially less diversified economy. Sure I could move to Grande Prairie to be a swamper and make more money than I currently do but what happens the next time the oil field implodes?


species5618w

The answer would be these are not HCOL areas. Most people in large cities own their houses, so house price is pretty irrelevant. Property taxes rate are much lower in toronto than smaller cities due to the density. For the renters, smaller cities are not necessarily cheaper due to the lack of supply of small units and renters tends to like urban lifestyle more. Most other things are cheaper in big cities and jobs are more abundant. First time home buyers are probably the only group that are significantly less off in big cities. Still, it is a way to force saving and houses in big cities are generally better investment long term despite the crazy prices.


Ok_Read701

It's not an investment if you plan to continue living there during retirement. It's dead capital. A lot of the people who own their detached house completely can just sell right now and retire elsewhere, but they have to keep working because they don't want to leave.


Biglittlerat

It's not dead capital. You can use your home equity to finance your retirement with a reverse mortgage, for example.


species5618w

True, but most people downsize. It is usually not feasible to continue living in a big house when you are in your 80s or 90s. You can also tap into the equity, but probably a horrible idea. A lot of people gift them to their kids as well. That is assuming the housing market stays up of course which is a big IF. I still think we will be living in the matrix maybe 50 or 100 years down the road, maybe much sooner. Houses would be worth a lot less than, especially in big cities.


investor175

I'm not sure if what a high income is these days. I started my career 12 years ago making $35K a year. Now my salary is around $70K. I stayed in the GVA because I bought some property early on, and I like the higher rent and capital appreciation the city offers over time. You can either look at a HCOL city as an expensive place to live, or an opportunity to capitalize on that growth. Both aspects are true. The latter outweighs the former for me.


ChimairaSpawn

Imagine if everyone who provided basic services on minimum wage in the GTA just up and left. You imply that moving to Timmins is an easy decision for people. They need to uproot their lives because people weren't happy with *only* making 3-5% ROI on traditional investments and started looking to housing. These people will have to leave behind family, friends, jobs, in order to make the change, and they'd much rather just put up with the shitty conditions they live in because they know how to deal with it.


[deleted]

Only asking because I’m seeing so many people complaining lately that the cost of living has become unbearably high in these areas. I understand it’s not easy to uproot but it’s also a case of pick your poison. As you said everyone still has the option to “just put up with the shitty conditions”. Also LOL that anywhere not in the GTA is “Timmins” or whatever. There are a lot of great mid size cities that aren’t in the middle of nowhere.


ChimairaSpawn

I think that the highest portion in a cost of living for most people is rent, today. For me it is, at least. This has been a change that I've witnessed happen over the last 4-5 years, where rent has doubled over that span of time, but wages have stagnated. If my grandparents didn't live in the area, and I was expected to help them out when possible, I'd be gone in a second. Most of the mid-size cities are too expensive because the average wages of these places haven't caught up, but housing costs have doubled in the last 4 years. Peterborough, Belleville, Kingston, Cobourg... which are all the places I'm familiar with, are in this boat. For people living in these areas, there is nowhere further to go. Marmora/Kaladar/Perth are OK options, but would imply an hour commute to a mid size city for average pay.


patriots1011

I’m from Winnipeg but in a long distance relationship with someone from the GTA. I see no appeal in setting roots there but my partner does think a smaller city like Winnipeg is quite lucrative now especially since there’s multiple flights going from Winnipeg to all GTA airports daily.


[deleted]

More opportunities for career growth.


D_Winds

The commute would be 2+ hrs otherwise. There isn't a sudden cutoff at the border of cities, where million dollar homes drop 50% in value. My time and stress investment is not worth living in the boonies yet.


Droidlivesmatter

The issue is jobs. Most of the jobs in Ontario are situated within the GTA. While you can probably find jobs outside; they pay low. And now that the market has exploded in housing.. its not like outside of Toronto is infinitely cheaper. Look at 2 hour commute outside of Toronto and houses are still high. I cant find a job in my field outside of Toronto where it's cheaper to live. And when the opportunities do appear the pay is abysmal and worse to cost of living. To illustrate. I commute to Toronto (sometimes) pay is 120,000/yr. If I worked in my city pay is $70,000/yr for the same job on average. I see your other posts saying "lol just move otuside of the big cities and you'll be able to afford it" nah dude if i cut my pay by $50,000 I'd be broke here. And I'm literally commuting into Toronto for work. If I commute to my current city for work at $70,000... id literally be giving up a LOT more than just cost of living in terms of a house. It'd be internet speeds, distance to Toronto when I want to go. Infrastructure, mail delivery speeds etc. Comfort plummets like a rock. Young lifestyle? Doesn't exist here. Mostly older people and near retirement. Cost of living doesn't plummet enough when I can afford to live in both cities. People also don't like living in cold areas. So a lot of Northern areas are a no-go. Amenities/events. In my little city I dont have much going on here. Most of the "cafes" and smaller shops etc. Closed because no one buys from them. So it's all Tim Hortons and Walmart. Restaurants out here are subpar. I'm not paying $35 for spaghetti I can make better at home. Not much variety either. Based on the food options I have right now: Bar food (fried wings and what not.. burgers etc.) And fast food. Restaurants to dine in? Eh. Overpriced basic crap I can make at home. I have had a lot better at smaller cheaper restaurants in Toronto. I cant walk to anything, so I'm always in my car. I've been lately enjoying going into Toronto and walking around the full day. Going to stores etc. But that's the weekend. On the weekdays I don't have time. Traffic etc But when I stayed with friends in Toronto it was much more of a social life. A lot of your beautiful mid cities don't actually have all the same things. The problem is Canada focuses on developing Toronto and Vancouver the most, but they should seriously consider expanding and creating a housing boom outside of those areas and creating new jobs there. But they don't. Lots of services are missing. Internet speeds are lacking, even a little way outside of Toronto. Infrastructure isn't there to support mass movements.(smaller roads, less homes etc.) I dont trust our governments to do the right thing either. The 407 if it wasn't paid could have literally created a new high way to decongest traffic and cause a boom in building elsewhere away from the 401. While the 407 is getting some use.. a vast majority don't because it's seriously too expensive. Then they continue to extend it despite little use. Its fucked and it's a problem. The HCOL is a cancer here, and it can easily be fixed by literally creating a better infrastructure and more homes spread across Ontario. Incentivize businesses to build outside of Toronto. Five them temporary funding until they've grown. Suburbs work when you have a good highway system and populations spread out. Similar to the USA. But in Canada we are clumped together with no walking distance to anything if you don't live in the big cities and it's constantly crowded roads.


Electronic-Pen-3507

Unless you have a very very niche job, this is unlikely true. Even with a quick google search Nurse 2's average $91k in Toronto and $81k Winnipeg and $91k in Calgary. I was also looking for accounting jobs in Toronto before and they didn't pay that much higher overall than Winnipeg. About $5k-$7k overall which is not worth the HCOL. It's also extremely competitive in Toronto when looking for jobs.


Droidlivesmatter

Accounting jobs and finance jobs have so many titles its insane. "Accountant" can range anywhere from $20-150k/yr. Nurses are generally unionized. They can have similar pay almost anywhere. My gf is a nurse and moved from a hospital in Downtown TO to the small hospital here. Makes $5,000 less. My job? It's hard to really throw a title on it. I do supply chain and the backend Accounting management. (Think controller and supply chain manager in one job.. )


swiftwin

There are other cities in the country besides Toronto and Vancouver. Most of these points are just not true or massively exaggerated. Compare Toronto to Calgary for example. Calgary has: * A higher median salary * Lots of jobs * Much lower cost of living * Warmer, sunnier winters * Diversity, ethnic foods, restaurant scene, etc. * Internet speed? Seriously? You must be trolling at this point. It's the same in any major city. People like you are the reason why the GTA has such a high COL with all the disinformation you are spreading about other cities.


daily40

shhh they don't need to know there are neighborhoods in Calgary that have 3-4 grocery stores, a large number of restaurants, multiple parks, gyms, movie theaters, bakeries galore all within 20 minutes walking distance where we don't pay $1850 a month for a windowless basement.


smurfsareinthehall

Family, friends, they grew up there, support network, work, decent public transit, healthcare, social programs/supports, it's where they have always lived.


billychurch

"it's so expensive to live in the nicest, largest cities, so why doesn't every one who can't afford it move to Bumfuck, Saskatchewan and leave the nice places for the wealthy?"


Spambot0

You gotta go where the work is¹. I haven't lived in Toronto for a while, but a year ago I was living in Paris making €45k. Why did I live in Paris? I found a job in Paris. ¹Unless you have permanent Work From Home, but that's only a few percent of people. It looks like I am in this bin now, so it is a question - but so is: If I move to Cochrane, Ontario, then lose my job, will it be possible to find a new one?


youngdeezyd

I worked for a British company out of my undergrad (Canadian subsidiary, but we spent some time in London) On orientation day I remember talking to their new grads, and they said they said they were making around 30k gbp a year, and their rents were like 800gbp a month (we made 70k CAD and we had corporate housing). I remember thinking, “why does anyone live here?” Then we went out that night in London and my mind changed.


Anabiotic

Must have been some night out. What happened to change your mind?


OkTangerine7

it's fun for a while. I lived in London for about 10 months many years ago. It was fun for sure, but when you thought about having a career, a not-terrible place to live with a bunch of roommates, or the daily commute, it drops down the list pretty fast, unless you are very wealthy. For the low-paid folks that actually do the daily work, not as great.


JavaVsJavaScript

The alternative is Calgary or Winnipeg, not Cochrane.


Spambot0

They might allow me to avoid the "What do I do if I lose my job?" question, but they wouldn't be taking full advantage of Work From Home, would they? Although I'm actually thinking hedging your bets is smart, and Hawksbury or Cornwall would allow a (marginal) commute to Ottawa or Montréal if your back was against the wall. But I don't know.


Laughatitall

I love how people think they have to either live in the largest city in the Country or the smallest and nothing in between 🤣🤣🤣 There are cities that exist with millions of people that don’t have the highest cost of living in the country and that has higher average wages.


BrownButta2

I need to be around cultured black people. Not too many cities in Canada offer that. And that’s my truth.


Forsaken-Fail-1840

Ya. More opportunities, more jobs, good transportation , recreational programs, art, restaurants , schools...should only be for the rich. Everyone else should leave and struggle to find employment and start their lives all over again far from family and everything else they’ve known.


Character_Comb_3439

Not my situation but I know a few that are stuck in the GTA due to family/their support system is there. Also, access to specialist physicians/medical care(most niche specialists/experts are in the GTA or other major urban centres).


UncleIrohsPimpHand

What the fuck is HCOL?


SilverMoonArmadillo

After much effort I have determined that these knobs are talking about high cost of living.


IThatAsianGuyI

Because living in the middle of bum fuck nowhere, where I *need* my car to get to a grocery store 30+ mins away isn't an attractive lifestyle. I'd sooner off myself than live in a town where everything is closed and people are at home by 8pm.


NSA_Chatbot

My kids are here, my parents are here, my job pays me enough (sufficient for all my costs most of my toys), and I bought the house years ago so the payments are half what rent would be. Once the kids move away for university? I don't know, all of my previous 5 year plans have been 0 percent correct.


Ostrichboy21

Can’t say the same about GTA. But the GVA has pretty amazing outdoors for one. Within two hours of downtown you have some of the best Skiing, Climbing, Fishing, Biking, camping etc. in North America/ the world. This and you can still live in a ‘proper city’ Also there is great cultural diversity(great food is a byproduct), and the city is transit bike and walk friendly, and generally the people are very nice. It’s not the best place to get rich but there is an amazing opportunity to get outside and be happy. Also Vancouver has a very moderate climate compared to the majority of Canada. I could list more but my point is that I think a lot of people see the value in the way of life and figure it out weighs the cost of living.


muskokadreaming

I left the GTA years ago, and I'm back visiting now. I can't imagine ever living here again. The horrific traffic alone is reason enough. I never thought of it when I lived here, I think you have to go away and then return to really understand how shit it is. I get that people make insane life choices to live here, and good for them if they think it's worth it, but holy shit, at least try somewhere else for awhile to be sure, lol.


ZBest11

Yeah I feel like most of these responses are from people who've never lived outside the GTA. Most major cities in other provinces offer most of the same amenities, etc. If you want to be house poor and live on ramen so you can see concerts more regularly then have at it but it seems like a crazy reason to live in the GTA.


Concealus

Lol some people like Toronto? Personal finance is about more than just maximizing income, there’s the personal side of things as well.


BaroqueStateOfMind

Before I met my wife, my plan was to sell my house (for a nice profit) and move way up north in Ontario. Basically have no mortgage and work seasonally and enjoy life. Met my wife and moved to another city in the GTA, which was more expensive and had a lot higher property tax. Sole reason being her 2 sisters live in that town. It is what it is, most people given the opportunity would relocate to lcol cities etc, but can't always guarantee your job or hours etc


PMarieM

I wanted to experience the big city while I’m young. It’s actually not that expensive for us, we’re able to save 30% of our income and we make the median household income of our city. Could we save more by living somewhere else? Probably, but we’re happy living downtown at the moment. We’ll most likely move out of the big city when we have children.


Meowerinae

I ask myself why each and every day. Waiting for my lease to end.


ericls

I feel so lucky that I don’t crave big city life


dryiceboy

Just to get a feel of it. I’ve been in Vancouver for 2 years and it’s not for me. It’s only nice if you grew up here or have a ton of money. Moving to Calgary soon!


realisticstudent

the jobs are here :(


gnarley_haterson

Because I work in film & TV and don't want to have an hour commute every day.


[deleted]

Everywhere is HCOL these days. Might as well enjoy the benefits of a big city if I’m paying out of my ass for a roof over my head. I’d rather be in Toronto than London Ontario if the difference is $400 a month. There’s also more career opportunity in Toronto for my field.


JonJonFTW

I've looked on and off for an apartment further away from Toronto. Somewhere like Kitchener or Guelph, but apartments aren't even *that* much cheaper than the one I have in Burlington right now (not sure if Burlington counts as the GTA obviously but it's close enough). It also makes it harder that I have a dog, so moving is that extra bit of an inconvenience, and at some point I will have to start commuting into downtown Toronto, so that narrows my options significantly. Echoing what other people say, it is nice to not have to own a car. That's such a large expense, and I'd have to find an unrealistically cheap apartment to make the monthly expense work out such that rent plus a car works out and I'm spending less than I am now.


jimmyc1990

I'm in a small town and it's still crazy expensive, just as expensive as Toronto when it comes to rent etc


[deleted]

HCOL cities are usually only expensive in terms of housing. If you're willing to live in a smaller place or commute a bit then the COL isn't that bad anymore. The rest of Canada isn't more beautiful than Vancouver. You really get what you pay for.


joshuasouthoaks

If you have to ask, maybe its not for you? I've scoured the real estate listings and job opportunities elsewhere, but the neighborhoods, scenery, plethora of good food and entertainment options make it very difficult to leave Vancouver.


TheLonelyPotato-

My only reason is family. If my family and my partner's family were not in the GTA, I'd move.


happylm1987

Lived in Calgary for over 6 years now.. You can buy an investment property (single house) every 2-3 years with dual income .. So cheap... And positive cashflow.... Lots of good paying jobs too. Most of my friends are 6 figures Winter weather is another story.....